Squad Rotation Discussion [Archive]

Figо10

23-10-2005, 17:41

To all FL managers, we should discuss about the Squad Rotation policy early, before this season ends and the transfer window opens. That way we'll be able to plan our transfers better.

My idea is this - we'll each have a squad of 18-22 players, and three players (both starters or subs) would be randomly drawn out to miss the next league match. Two players to miss each cup match. This will result in one or two starting players missing out.

We'll be updating our squads before each match, replacing the absentees with players who can play.

Lots of benefits if this policy is put into place. For one, we'll at last get to make use of our substitues. Most of us have subs who haven't played a game all season, that seldom exists in real life. We'll have to show good team management to deal with key absentees and still put in a decent showing with the remaining players available.

Secondly, matches would not be so dull. We wouldn't be fielding the same line-up every game. I believe this was a reason most members lost interest in voting, the boredom of seeing similar line-ups and players used every match. Every fixture will see a different formation for every team, just like in real life.

And finally, it gives us more chances of beating the top teams. A Reyes' team without Henry or a Hunter's formation without Torres would give the other teams more hope, rather than turning the match into a one-sided game. And voters who like a certain team so much and keeps voting for it in every match would think again when he sees a changed line-up. So in summary, it gives more chances to average teams to beat the top teams.

Hope this works out.

Post any ideas or suggestions you have here :)

Scarface

23-10-2005, 17:54

Figо10

23-10-2005, 18:08

Sounds good. How do we actually rotate players? 2 positions are announced each week that have to be rotated? The problem is we all have different formations so we can't just say, rotate left winger, as some might not play one. I think Hunter came up with quite a good format if memory serves, but I can't remember how it worked completely, so maybe he'll post it here later.
The picking of the player missing out should be done at random, by one of us here possibly. If we were to choose the player ourselves, it wouldn't be unpredictable as we'll already have shaped our squads to tackle the suspensions.

And also I think the absentees should be any player of any position. This' so that managers don't use players with multiple positions to their advantage. This' also to increase unpredictability. In the case that one team were to have only one centre-back left to play, then it'll be interesting as he'll be forced to use a three-men backline, allowing for more attacking options upfront.

Preki-USA

23-10-2005, 18:15

it would have to be truly random then...its a tough idea to follow thru on but it would be amazing if we could pull it off

Scarface

23-10-2005, 18:15

The picking of the player missing out should be done at random, by one of us here possibly. If we were to choose the player ourselves, it wouldn't be unpredictable as we'll already have shaped our squads to tackle the suspensions.

And also I think the absentees should be any player of any position. This' so that managers don't use players with multiple positions to their advantage. This' also to increase unpredictability. In the case that one team were to have only one centre-back left to play, then it'll be interesting as he'll be forced to use a three-men backline, allowing for more attacking options upfront.

How could we possibly do that? Sounds a bit dodgy to me. I don't see how anyone can pick randomly, I think this was suggested before, but no-one could think of an idea of how to get it to work, and if people kept having their top players picked they'd start to think there's something fishy going on.

Preki-USA

23-10-2005, 18:22

Scarface

23-10-2005, 18:28

I'm certain they'll be a rotation policy in place for next season, but I doubt we can come up with a fair way of picking players randomly to miss matches. I'm trying to find Hunter's post where he suggested quite a good format for the rotations at the moment.

Figо10

23-10-2005, 18:52

How could we possibly do that? Sounds a bit dodgy to me. I don't see how anyone can pick randomly, I think this was suggested before, but no-one could think of an idea of how to get it to work, and if people kept having their top players picked they'd start to think there's something fishy going on.
What I have in mind is a mod or any FL guy we trust do the job. He'll take all the players in their respective squads, and number them 1 to the last number. Then the guy will put all the numbers into a hat and draw out three of them, and match them with the players who will be absent.

About the guy who draws the players, we just have to pick someone everyone can trust and that should solve the job. Shame HP isn't here at the moment.

This will be totally random.

And also we should set the rule that both goalkeepers can't miss out simultaneously :cool:

Btw I couldn't find Hunter's post in the FL discussion thread or the Press Room :ohmy: could it have been somewhere else?

Scarface

23-10-2005, 18:56

What I have in mind is a mod or any FL guy we trust do the job. He'll take all the players in their respective squads, and number them 1 to the last number. Then the guy will put all the numbers into a hat and draw out three of them, and match them with the players who will be absent.

This will be totally random.

And also we should set the rule that both goalkeepers can't miss out simultaneously :cool:

But then we might have players who still never feature in a match over the season. I'd like all the players to have to play at least 3 or 4 matches so then the teams with the best squads are rewarded (as is the case usually in real life), and it's not so much to do with luck.

Figо10

23-10-2005, 19:03

But then we might have players who still never feature in a match over the season. I'd like all the players to have to play at least 3 or 4 matches so then the teams with the best squads are rewarded (as is the case usually in real life), and it's not so much to do with luck.
I agree it should be made compulsory for every player to play a minimum number of games a season. That's a very good idea :)

But that'll also mean we will clear out unwanted guys. People wouldn't want players they would have wanted if the players aren't good enough to start. Then to most of us, it would mean the lesser the better. And we'll end up with squad sizes like 18 again, which is okay to me, but doesn't go with what another thing we've been talking about - bigger squads sizes.

Scarface

23-10-2005, 21:57

I agree it should be made compulsory for every player to play a minimum number of games a season. That's a very good idea :)

But that'll also mean we will clear out unwanted guys. People wouldn't want players they would have wanted if the players aren't good enough to start. Then to most of us, it would mean the lesser the better. And we'll end up with squad sizes like 18 again, which is okay to me, but doesn't go with what another thing we've been talking about - bigger squads sizes.

If the players aren't good enough to play, they shouldn't have bought them or should just release them now and replace them with players they prefer. It's not as if they have to use all their subs at once, it'll probably be only 2 or 3 coming in at once as part of the rotation policy. I think increasing the size of the squad should be allowed as squad expansion has been talked about as something that's going to be happening for quite some time and some have pre-planned for that.

Unless someone can come up with a better idea, I think we should all have a squad of 22 players and have a tally for our players in a designated thread and mark on every time they play, and they have to of played at least a certain amount of games. It would make it more interesting when we all have big squads as the team line-ups wouldn't be so recognisable each week and it would test our management skills more. We could also set a rule where we can only make 5 changes per week so you couldn't just put a 2nd team out when you think you're coming up against a team you're fairly likely to beat.

Nedy

23-10-2005, 23:59

Sound good for me Figo......I like this idea.....excellent!

Figо10

24-10-2005, 03:24

Sound good for me Figo......I like this idea.....excellent!
Thanks buddy :)
If the players aren't good enough to play, they shouldn't have bought them or should just release them now and replace them with players they prefer. It's not as if they have to use all their subs at once, it'll probably be only 2 or 3 coming in at once as part of the rotation policy. I think increasing the size of the squad should be allowed as squad expansion has been talked about as something that's going to be happening for quite some time and some have pre-planned for that.
People can have squads of 22 if they like, but some managers have players who are just their personal favourites. For example I like Pavon, and he's in my squad for that reason, but surely I wouldn't think of playing him, just having him in my team is what I want.

Increasing of squad size should be allowed, but if every player in the squad has to play a certain number of games a season, then we will think twice before putting them in. If a player is deemed to inexperienced, they will be left out and released. Then we'll be back down to 17- or 18-men squads.
Unless someone can come up with a better idea, I think we should all have a squad of 22 players and have a tally for our players in a designated thread and mark on every time they play, and they have to of played at least a certain amount of games.
The table's a good idea :) We'll decide later on on the number of games they have to play. I'll be guessing 3 a season if we go with 22- or 23-men suqads. Or 5 a season in 20-men squads.
It would make it more interesting when we all have big squads as the team line-ups wouldn't be so recognisable each week and it would test our management skills more.
Agree with that :) But the recognisability will have to depend on our squad sizes too. For me a size of 22/23 is pretty big, I'll prefer 18. 20 is fine for me though.
We could also set a rule where we can only make 5 changes per week so you couldn't just put a 2nd team out when you think you're coming up against a team you're fairly likely to beat.
Yup, a maximum number of changes allowed to be made would be good, we can decide on this number after we see how many players we have in our squads.

Scarface

24-10-2005, 03:36

Thanks buddy :)

People can have squads of 22 if they like, but some managers have players who are just their personal favourites. For example I like Pavon, and he's in my squad for that reason, but surely I wouldn't think of playing him, just having him in my team is what I want.

Increasing of squad size should be allowed, but if every player in the squad has to play a certain number of games a season, then we will think twice before putting them in. If a player is deemed to inexperienced, they will be left out and released. Then we'll be back down to 17- or 18-men squads.

The table's a good idea :) We'll decide later on on the number of games they have to play. I'll be guessing 3 a season if we go with 22- or 23-men suqads. Or 5 a season in 20-men squads.

Agree with that :) But the recognisability will have to depend on our squad sizes too. For me a size of 22/23 is pretty big, I'll prefer 18. 20 is fine for me though.

Yup, a maximum number of changes allowed to be made would be good, we can decide on this number after we see how many players we have in our squads.

I think we've all gotta have the same amount of players, otherwise it'll be unfair as some have to rotate more than others. I don't see the problem having squads of 22, we might have to play someone we don't rate very highly a few times, but that might be good as we should have teams dropping points in unpredictable circumstances and we might have a few shocks, although the best squads should gain the advantage in the long term. We have 18 League matches and a minimum of 4 cup matches, so I reckon something like a minimum of 6/7 matches for every player. Maybe rotate at least 2/3 per game, but not more than 5. Most of us have squads of 17 or 18 at the moment, some even around 20 when all their loanees return, so a few more outfield players and a keeper being added to the squad shouldn't hurt.

Figо10

24-10-2005, 03:46

I think we've all gotta have the same amount of players, otherwise it'll be unfair as some have to rotate more than others. I don't see the problem having squads of 22, we might have to play someone we don't rate very highly a few times, but that might be good as we should have teams dropping points in unpredictable circumstances and we might have a few shocks, although the best squads should gain the advantage in the long term. We have 18 League matches and a minimum of 4 cup matches, so I reckon something like a minimum of 6/7 matches for every player. Maybe rotate at least 2/3 per game, but not more than 5. Most of us have squads of 17 or 18 at the moment, some even around 20 when all their loanees return, so a few more outfield players and a keeper being added to the squad shouldn't hurt.
Everyone having squads exactly of the same size would be difficult, though we can do with +/- one player.

Unpredictability is good, but random drawing of players to miss matches is more unpredictable than choosing who to miss by ourselves. That way, some of the decisions will still be predictable.

I feel that 6/7 games might be too much, even more so for 22/23-player teams, considering that's almost a third of a season's games. The minimum number of games players have to play should be 5 I think, that'll be about 22% of the games played, rather than about 30%.

Scarface

24-10-2005, 04:03

I feel that 6/7 games might be too much, even more so for 22/23-player teams, considering that's almost a third of a season's games. The minimum number of games players have to play should be 5 I think, that'll be about 22% of the games played, rather than about 30%.

That sounds fine ;) It shouldn't be too hard for us to all have squads of the same size, even if we loan players out we can just replace them with a free agent for £1m or take one of the other guys players on loan.

Figо10

24-10-2005, 04:08

That sounds fine ;) It shouldn't be too hard for us to all have squads of the same size, even if we loan players out we can just replace them with a free agent for £1m or take one of the other guys players on loan.
Problem is it's difficult to just pick any free agent left and tell yourself that's gonna be a guy who'll play at least 5 times for you this season :unsure:

Maybe we should hold a poll for squad sizes :) Managers here would have various opinions on how many players squads should have.

pier69

24-10-2005, 06:06

why dun just do an injury list , just pick a random player and if he's injured in real life , then he's unable to play. and have an injury thread too , if the manager plays that player then he's either fined or the player won't be able to play foir 2 or 3 more weeks

Scarface

24-10-2005, 12:12

Figо10

24-10-2005, 12:58

But then we still will be in a situation where some of our players might not make any appearances throughout a whole season. I don't think the idea of any random drawing of players is a good one, I guarantee we'll have people saying they are being cheated and they'll be arguments again like this season if their best players keep ''randomly'' being picked. Nothing but chaos will be created if someone is supposedly drawing random names out of a hat and saying they won't play and picking the player who has gotta play. I know luck plays a part in football, but the biggest and best squads are usually rewarded and I don't see this being the case here.
We'll make a rule that every player has to play at least 5 times a season. Should settle the problem of players not playing at all.

I agree people would doubt the honesty of the 'drawer' if their key player keeps on missing out. It seems we have differing views on squad rotation - yours is that every player's available and the manager has to pick from them and at the same time satisfy the condition of 5 appearances a season for every player. Mine is that players would miss out due to injury or suspension (as in real life) and players should be brought in to fill the space.

We could try your idea first though, since the opening of the next season will be our first tryout of squad rotation. If it works out well then we could consider doing the random one.

When we are having our players randomly selected to play it won't involve as much management skills either and it'll be based on luck. I'm building a squad of versatile players so I can rotate players more easily, I didn't do it so I could be told what players i'm playing every game, we're the managers, we should decide who plays, but just adopt a rotation policy so we have to rest our big stars several times and play some players not quite so good. It'll then be more about tactics and management skills knowing we have to play all our players a certain amount of times, and trying to figure when's best to rotate them. People might also then be more interested in viewing each match to see who each manager has selected for their team.
Ok fair enough, maybe we should give yours a try first :)

I figured random drawing might be too complicated, too sudden to start once the next season begins. We'll see what HP thinks about our ideas though.

Also about the punishment of not playing a squad player enough to satisfy the minimum number of squad games he's supposed to play, what do you think? Cash fine or point deduction?

Scarface

24-10-2005, 13:11

I think it should definitely be a hefty point deduction and maybe a fine aswell as it'll be important we all follow the rules properly to make sure it's fair. HP was supposed to be returning last night, but hopefully he'll be back in the next few days so we can see what he thinks about it all then.

Figо10

24-10-2005, 13:17

A hefty point deduction will be a little strict, considering we might sometimes forget to update our formations before the next match begins. And we're playing only 18 league games so how many points are there to be deducted?

Sounds a little strict to me, even though rules have to be followed. Maybe a fine will do, but that will also lead to some people not playing players on purpose and just tossing out a fraction of their fortune to compensate for it.

And we'll have to decide on a fixed date and time when matches will be posted, to allow us enough time to update our line-ups.

Scarface

24-10-2005, 13:27

A heft point deduction will be a little strict, considering we might sometimes forget to update our formations before the next match begins. And we're playing only 18 league games so how many points are there to be deducted?

Sounds a little strict to me, even though rules have to be followed. Maybe a fine will do, but that will also lead to some people not playing players on purpose and just tossing out a fraction of their fortune to compensate for it.

And we'll have to decide on a fixed date and time when matches will be posted, to allow us enough time to update our line-ups.

I thought you meant if by the end of the season not every player had been used the minimum amount of times. In that case, I think people should be heavily punished, but if you mean if people forget to rotate in just one match, they should just lose by default I guess, so they don't pick up any points for that game. This is why active members will be needed as it would be good if they could take the time to vote in games, check who they are playing next and then rotate 2 or 3 players.

Figо10

24-10-2005, 13:34

I thought you meant if by the end of the season not every player had been used the minimum amount of times.
That was what I meant. But if managers forget to change their players multiple times, it would accumulate to some players not getting enough games too, which will lead to the punishments.

In that case, I think people should be heavily punished, but if you mean if people forget to rotate in just one match, they should just lose by default I guess, so they don't pick up any points for that game. This is why active members will be needed as it would be good if they could take the time to vote in games, check who they are playing next and then rotate 2 or 3 players.
Lose by default - there's likely to be huge arguments when one who forgot to updat his formation argues over the time difference, although given 3 days in advance to change formations we should already have them sorted out.

Scarface

24-10-2005, 13:44

That was what I meant. But if managers forget to change their players multiple times, it would accumulate to some players not getting enough games too, which will lead to the punishments.

Lose by default - there's likely to be huge arguments when one who forgot to updat his formation argues over the time difference, although given 3 days in advance to change formations we should already have them sorted out.

The matches will have to go up after a certain time, 7pm on a Saturday for example, and everyone will have to work out what that is in their timezone. People can't complain then, they'll know they have to update it before that certain time each week.

Figо10

24-10-2005, 15:39

The matches will have to go up after a certain time, 7pm on a Saturday for example, and everyone will have to work out what that is in their timezone. People can't complain then, they'll know they have to update it before that certain time each week.
In case we aren't free for long periods of time, we should be allowed to leave the updating of formations to someone else in the league, as we won't be free to visit Insight twice a week anymore.

That way no one will miss the updating of formations.

Highway Penguin

25-10-2005, 00:59

Usul

25-10-2005, 15:09

Figо10

25-10-2005, 17:05

From this thread I found that the tally idea was the best way to go.

It will ensure that people will rotate and it means we don't have to come up with a position each week encountering the different formations problem. Each team must have say, 18 players at the least and 22 at the most then all of the players must play 7 matches at least. If possible we could settle on 22 for everyone, there are enough players out there after all. :)
22 players having to play 7 matches each at least seems too much for me. We have only 22-25 fixtures and that's a third of all our games where we will see our reserves. I would suggest a minimum of 5 matches in 22/23-men squads, and 7 would do just right for 18-men squads.

18-22 player squads sound okay, maybe make it 19-21 to narrow the difference between the number of players in our squads. Having an exact number to follow would be difficult in my opinion.

We'll go with the tally idea then if that's what's right for the league :)

Scarface

25-10-2005, 17:15

22 players having to play 7 matches each at least seems too much for me. We have only 22-25 fixtures and that's a third of all our games where we will see our reserves. I would suggest a minimum of 5 matches in 22/23-men squads, and 7 would do just right for 18-men squads.

18-22 player squads sound okay, maybe make it 19-21 to narrow the difference between the number of players in our squads. Having an exact number to follow would be difficult in my opinion.

We'll go with the tally idea then if that's what's right for the league :)

At least 5 or 6 appearances per player seems about right, HP suggested 6 when I spoke to him last night but one less appearance shouldn't make too much difference.

Figо10

25-10-2005, 17:29

At least 5 or 6 appearances per player seems about right, HP suggested 6 when I spoke to him last night but one less appearance shouldn't make too much difference.
Yeah :) Anyway the minimum number of appearances each player makes has to depend on the range of number of players we can have in our squads (eg. 19-21). The more players we have, the less the minimum should be. If we'd have players then each should play more.

-Deki-

25-10-2005, 17:56

From this thread I found that the tally idea was the best way to go.

It will ensure that people will rotate and it means we don't have to come up with a position each week encountering the different formations problem. Each team must have say, 18 players at the least and 22 at the most then all of the players must play 7 matches at least. If possible we could settle on 22 for everyone, there are enough players out there after all. :)

440 players. Hm, now that I think about it...crazy. Oh well. It'll make the transfers period interesting.

This will bring in more players and expand the knowledge of football in the Fantasy League. Good stuff.

Let's get it going guys. :)
Sounds good, although I suggest we keep this system as simple as possible. :)

Figо10

25-10-2005, 18:16

Sounds good, although I suggest we keep this system as simple as possible. :)
We just need to sort out a few things:

- Range of Squad sizes allowed
- Min. number of appearances each season for each player (league/cup)
- Min. number of players needed to be replaced between games (league/cup)
- Max. number of players allowed to be replaced between games (league/cup)
- Punishments for not following the rules (fine/point deduction/etc.)

Yossi

25-10-2005, 19:17

Why not just have a maximum number of games that each player can participate in consecutively. Lets say three or four. Each player should be rested after that for one game at least...During the first couple of fixtures people would use their strongest formation, just like real life, but after the second fixture youd have to start thinking on who you will rest the next game and so on...It would be difficult to keep track of this but it makes a lot more sense i think.
That's the best idea I reckon. The only way that needs sorting is to add a minimum amount of games per player and that'll be good. I also must say that I am not a fan of having a strict set squad size.

Highway Penguin

25-10-2005, 23:08

It's up to the majority, but I think that the tally idea will function in favor for everyone. It works pretty much the same way as Muad's idea, but flipped. You could say.

- Range of Squad sizes allowed : 22 is my personal opinion. Gives us a second string line-up.

- Min. number of appearances each season for each player (league/cup) : I think that 6 games out of 18 League games and then cup matches. Maybe even 4-5 game starts as well. Opinions please.

- Min. number of players needed to be replaced between games (league/cup) : Not sure what you mean...

- Max. number of players allowed to be replaced between games (league/cup) : Not sure what you mean....... :)

- Punishments for not following the rules (fine/point deduction/etc.) : Cash deductions and game looses would work well, I think.

Anyways, just my opinion.

Preki-USA

26-10-2005, 02:24

- Min. number of players needed to be replaced between games (league/cup) : Not sure what you mean...

- Max. number of players allowed to be replaced between games (league/cup) : Not sure what you mean....... :)

You could only change 5 players at a time so u wouldn't be allowed to just put in ur 2nd team in a game that doesn't matter or against a weak opponent.

I think you should be able to play ur B team no matter what

Figо10

26-10-2005, 02:24

- Min. number of players needed to be replaced between games (league/cup) : Not sure what you mean...

- Max. number of players allowed to be replaced between games (league/cup) : Not sure what you mean....... :)
Means the minimum number of players you have to switch after your last game and before your next game. Just something to help out squad rotation.

A max. number is needed as well so that, as Reyes pointed out, people can't just play entire second string teams against minnows or in insignificant.
- Punishments for not following the rules (fine/point deduction/etc.) : Cash deductions and game looses would work well, I think.
I don't get the losing games thing, at the end of the season we'll check the player appearances and see who hasn't got the required number, so how can we be awarded losses?

Highway Penguin

26-10-2005, 04:26

I mean like, if we see that someone played less games than allowed, we could say however many games that player played the manager is deducted a win and it's replaced with a 3-0 lose.

Make sense?

Oh, I get what you are saying. I didn't think that that was a big deal. I don't think anyone will have a super strong B team. Many lower ranked D1 teams could rape the D1 top team's B sides.

Make sense? :)

Cool, keep the opinions coming.

Figо10

26-10-2005, 04:45

I mean like, if we see that someone played less games than allowed, we could say however many games that player played the manager is deducted a win and it's replaced with a 3-0 lose.

Make sense?
Do you mean if a manager fails to update his formation to replace a certain number of players then he'll forfeit the match? Okay that sounds sensible ;)

Oh, I get what you are saying. I didn't think that that was a big deal. I don't think anyone will have a super strong B team. Many lower ranked D1 teams could rape the D1 top team's B sides.
A minimum number of players who have to be changed after each game would more or less encourage squad rotation :)

I don't think D1 has really strong B sides, take Loren for example. And most of our entire B teams would probably lose 2-0 to the D2 first teams in real life.

Anyway HP about the signing of free agents - they gonna cost 1m each?

Preki-USA

26-10-2005, 05:00

i think we should do the free for all like we did with transfers before

if we do a draft is it gonna be like worst in D2 picks first and then all the way up until james picks?

Figо10

26-10-2005, 05:44

i think we should do the free for all like we did with transfers before

if we do a draft is it gonna be like worst in D2 picks first and then all the way up until james picks?
Yeah the rush one will be cool :D Plus we don't know if everyone wants the same number of free agents, and of cos the time taken would be killing us :ohmy:

Scarface

26-10-2005, 18:38

Yeah the rush one will be cool :D Plus we don't know if everyone wants the same number of free agents, and of cos the time taken would be killing us :ohmy:

Yeah, i'd like the free agents method we used before to be used again, at least it's over and done with in a day or two then and most people bother to come online so they can get the players they want. With the draft it would be very dull waiting a week to sign each free agent.

Highway Penguin

27-10-2005, 01:47

Aye, a first come first serve will probably be done.

-Figo, gimme' a detailed rotation idea from yourself. :D

Figо10

27-10-2005, 07:51

Aye, a first come first serve will probably be done.

-Figo, gimme' a detailed rotation idea from yourself. :D
Isn't http://forum.pesinsight.com/showpost.php?p=470836&postcount=1 (this) detailed enough? :D

Anyway my idea of random suspensions puts doubt into many of the managers regarding the person who randomly draws the player to miss out. Reyes' idea sounds good though.

Mine's simply this - a person (probably you :laugh:) just numbers our squad players from 1 to 22 (for eg.) then put those numbers into a hat and draw three of them out. Match those three numbers with their respective players and those players will miss the next game. And we'll repeat this after every game. There has to at least be a goalkeeper left to pick.

This is to incrase unpredictability :cool:

Btw Vic could you not use Invisible mode? :(

Figо10

28-10-2005, 09:35

You could only change 5 players at a time so u wouldn't be allowed to just put in ur 2nd team in a game that doesn't matter or against a weak opponent.

I think you should be able to play ur B team no matter what
Actually, why not :D

We should be allowed to change players in our line-ups as often as we like, as long as we meet the required minimum number of games a player has to play each season.
Oh, I get what you are saying. I didn't think that that was a big deal. I don't think anyone will have a super strong B team. Many lower ranked D1 teams could rape the D1 top team's B sides.
:)

Highway Penguin

28-10-2005, 22:59

-Bah! :D I forgot.

-Too much work, I think that the minimum number of matches to play is a much easier way. :) If I had more time I'd be willing to do the drawing, but not enough time.

-I will change it, but why don't you like it senor?

-Deki-

29-10-2005, 12:42

Any chance we can clear up the rules now, so everyone knows what they are doing, and so everyone knows how to prepare for the new season. (i.e. who they need to buy sell etc.)

Figо10

29-10-2005, 13:00

I'll also like to know if we will be needing an extra goalkeeper.

And the squad size as soon as possible :)

Scarface

29-10-2005, 15:00

Guillermo

29-10-2005, 15:02

Whey two keepers. Bagsy getting Almunia.

Scarface

29-10-2005, 15:08

Whey two keepers. Bagsy getting Almunia.

Oh well, guess Mart Poom will have to do for me then :cool:

Figо10

29-10-2005, 16:11

We'll all be needing 2 'keepers, I know that much. Squads will probably be containing 22 players, and every player will have to play at least 5/6times using the tally method, but HP will explain more later.
We won't be needing 2 keepers if there's only the rule that each player has to play at least 5 games a season.

Scarface

29-10-2005, 17:18

We won't be needing 2 keepers if there's only the rule that each player has to play at least 5 games a season.

Why wouldn't we?

Figо10

29-10-2005, 18:06

Why wouldn't we?
'Cos we don't have to pick keepers if the rule only says that each player has to play at least 5 times a season. We could have only one keeper in the squad and fill up the rest of the spaces with defenders, midfielders and forwards.

Scarface

29-10-2005, 20:36

'Cos we don't have to pick keepers if the rule only says that each player has to play at least 5 times a season. We could have only one keeper in the squad and fill up the rest of the spaces with defenders, midfielders and forwards.

Goalkeepers count as players and need to be rotated, unless people want to have an outfield player in goal for 5 matches. ;)

Figо10

30-10-2005, 01:52

Goalkeepers count as players and need to be rotated, unless people want to have an outfield player in goal for 5 matches. ;)
But there isn't a rule that someone cannot play a certain number of games each season, just the rule that someone has to play a certain number of games each season.

That means starting your first choice keeper for every game isn't gonna be against the rules.

Scarface

30-10-2005, 01:54

But there isn't a rule that someone cannot play a certain number of games each season, just the rule that someone has to play a certain number of games each season.

That means starting your first choice keeper for every game isn't gonna be against the rules.

I think it will be, the rules haven't been fully confirmed yet and i'm guessing every player will have to be rested sometimes, and HP told me that we'll all need 2 'keepers and was thinking of what 'keeper to sign.

Highway Penguin

30-10-2005, 21:01

Yossi

30-10-2005, 22:50

Some people use different formations though, so making people have eight defenders, eight midfielders, and four strikers is too restrictive. Just say twenty outfield players.

-Deki-

30-10-2005, 22:56

I agree with Yossi, apart from needing two keepers, I think there should be no limits on players to position.

20 outfielder I say. (like Yossi :cool:)

Scarface

30-10-2005, 23:28

You will need:
2 Keepers
8 Defenders
8 Mids
4 Strikers

That's a basic 22 man squad, correct?

Figo, you are saying the same thing, pretty much.
"Isn't a rule that someone cannot play a certain number of games each season, just the rule that someone has to play a certain number of games each season."

1. Everyone must play 5 games.
2. No max number of changes each game in your line-up.
3. No minimum number of changes each game in your line-up, but this can't interfer with rule 1.

James, I'm a bit curious on this matter, what are we going to do about the max and minimum number of players in a squad. Should it matter?

Yeah, it should, as squads with just 18 players wouldn't have to rotate as much as squads of 22 so they'd gain an advantage. Just have squads of 22 (2 keepers, 20 outfield players) as Yossi said, we can't tell people to have a certain amount of players in each position, and some players can play a number of positions. i.e I could class Essien as a defender, as he can play centre back, or Chivu as a midfielder. We should also try to set a rule to make sure players are rested a certain amount of times so every team has to cope without their key players now and again.

Highway Penguin

31-10-2005, 02:06

Aye, I know, I should have explained more. I meant that could be a base for people to go off of. As that's a basic 22 man squad. :D

Anyways, yeah, I agree James, Yossi, and Deki.

:)

Figо10

31-10-2005, 05:45

20 outfield players and 2 goalkeepers seem good to me, I'm going with it :)

We'll have to think of a rule on the appearances of players who move clubs during the transfer window too. I suggest since the minimum number of appearances each player is 5, we make it 3 in the first half of the season and 2 in the second half.
We should also try to set a rule to make sure players are rested a certain amount of times so every team has to cope without their key players now and again.
That's why I'm suggesting random suspensions ;)

Scarface

31-10-2005, 07:54

That's why I'm suggesting random suspensions ;)

I don't agree with any random drawings from a hat etc, but we could have a rule where every player has to be rested 4/5 times or thereabouts.

Figо10

31-10-2005, 12:05

I don't agree with any random drawings from a hat etc, but we could have a rule where every player has to be rested 4/5 times or thereabouts.
That wouldn't be easy since we'll be having different number of games a season, which depends on our progress in the WCL tournament.

Anyway, updating the appearance table is gonna be a BIG job :mellow:

Scarface

31-10-2005, 18:57

That wouldn't be easy since we'll be having different number of games a season, which depends on our progress in the WCL tournament.

Anyway, updating the appearance table is gonna be a BIG job :mellow:

It's not that hard, just check each team, note down who played and then add it onto the tally.

As for the appearances, we should just have to rest each player a certain amount of times without taking into account the amount of times each team may play. We could assume everyone wil play 22 matches and work out from that what would be a sensible amount of times to rest each player.

-Deki-

31-10-2005, 22:25

As for the appearances, we should just have to rest each player a certain amount of times without taking into account the amount of times each team may play. We could assume everyone wil play 22 matches and work out from that what would be a sensible amount of times to rest each player.
This resting sounds quite good, although it maybe hard to moniter.

If we choose to do this, we should nominate certain fl members to keep an eye, on a few teams.

Like 2 people for Div 1, 2 for Div 2. Ecah could take half the teams in their league and moniter the player, via a post, which counts up apperances.

Just an idea for you all to consider. :)

Preki-USA

01-11-2005, 00:42

yea i'd be up for monitoring D2...good idea :)

Highway Penguin

01-11-2005, 00:56

Why not have 2 D1 managers watch D2 and 2 watch D1, this way people won't be tempted to allow a player or two to play more games.

Preki-USA

01-11-2005, 03:33

Why not have 2 D1 managers watch D2 and 2 watch D1, this way people won't be tempted to allow a player or two to play more games.

we've gotta smart one on our hands

sounds like a plan ;)

Figо10

01-11-2005, 13:06

Why not have 2 D1 managers watch D2 and 2 watch D1, this way people won't be tempted to allow a player or two to play more games.
Might as well just get everybody to watch the thread :laugh:

We could just leave the thread in the Match Area and anyone free could update it, and let it be inspected by the 'watchers' later :)

Scarface

24-11-2005, 11:09

Have we come to a final decision on this matter now? We really need to know how everything is going to work before making any final signings, formation changes and final preparations.

nikos24

24-11-2005, 11:18

Yes, i also agree that managers should start posting up their final squads, signing their final agents, and making last of their bids.

Scarface

24-11-2005, 11:22

Yes, i also agree that managers should start posting up their final squads, signing their final agents, and making last of their bids.

I wasn't saying that ;) I think it's far too early to think about closing the transfer window as Codename's team doesn't even have a new manager yet and some new managers have only just started building their team. I meant have we come to a decision about how the Squad Rotation is going to work? We'll need to know the exact details before deciding if we're happy with our squads.

Victor has confirmed this:

1. Every squad member must play 5 games.
2. No max number of changes each game in your line-up.
3. No minimum number of changes each game in your line-up, but this can't interfere with rule 1.

The problem I see with this is we could all just use our best 11 for the first 13 League games and then use our second 11 for the final 5 games.

We need to know who will check the teams, how we are going to go about checking a players number of appearances etc.

Stella Artois

24-11-2005, 11:27

It's a long thread...will read it later.

If you wish to encorporate this idea:

My idea is this - we'll each have a squad of 18-22 players, and three players (both starters or subs) would be randomly drawn out to miss the next league match. Two players to miss each cup match. This will result in one or two starting players missing out.

Just use a random number generator.

Usul

24-11-2005, 16:08

Maybe we should just put a limit to the maximum number of consecutive games that any player can start in. Say, five or six. that way people will have to rest a few of their key players during the second or third fixture so not all their stars are missing in the fith fixture. That will force us to mix it up and have different starting elevens everytime. There will come days when we would be able to use our intial squad of course, so managers will have to exercise some vision and mathematical tacics to make sure this and that player are present for this and that fixture. And it will not be so hard to keep track of.

These random techniques do not appeal to me in the slightest.

Figо10

24-11-2005, 17:07

We need to know who will check the teams, how we are going to go about checking a players number of appearances etc.
I'll be handling the D1 Appearances Table ;)

Highway Penguin

24-11-2005, 17:18

Figо10

24-11-2005, 17:28

Yeah, I need someone to volunteer for D2.

1. Every squad member must play 5 games.
2. No max number of changes each game in your line-up.
3. No minimum number of changes each game in your line-up, but this can't interfere with rule 1.
4. 6 consecutive games are allowed to be played for one player.

That should round it off nicely, don't you think?
Rule 4 is a good one, it also makes sure we can't play a player infinite times ;)

The numbers might be improved, perhaps.

I'll also post in the Appearances thread which players will not be allowed to play in the next game. I'll add one post every matchday so you can see the addition I've made and check if there're any errors.

Highway Penguin

24-11-2005, 17:28

Alright, sounds good.

-What numbers should be improved?

Figо10

24-11-2005, 17:32

Alright, sounds good.

-What numbers should be improved?
Not that I don't agree with the numbers there, but some of them could be changed yer know, if we all agree to :)

The basic rules should still stand though.

Btw do the rules apply to both Cup and League matches? As in if a player plays in 4 league games and 2 cup games consecutively, he is rules out of the next game?

Highway Penguin

24-11-2005, 17:40

Figо10

24-11-2005, 17:43

Good question.

I'd like to make League and Cup matches seperate.
The rules above are for League matches, cause there are roughly 18 correct?

The Cup matches depend on how far you get. :tongue:

1. A player rested ever 2 games....?

Add a few, or suggest.
To make it simple, I think the four rules should just be applied to both League and Cup games :D Elimination from the Cup wouldn't matter as you'll have lesser games to play, so more opportunities to play your favoured players.

Highway Penguin

24-11-2005, 17:54

Yeah, that's not fair.

Opinions. More realistic yes, easier to manage yes. Harder for managers, yes.

I take it back, sounds fine to me. :)

Yossi

24-11-2005, 19:04

I reckon that if we include those rules for both league and cup games then it will be easier for managers, because otherwise it could get a bit confusing.

Stella Artois

28-11-2005, 15:37

Yeah, I need someone to volunteer for D2.

1. Every squad member must play 5 games.
2. No max number of changes each game in your line-up.
3. No minimum number of changes each game in your line-up, but this can't interfere with rule 1.
4. 6 consecutive games are allowed to be played for one player.

That should round it off nicely, don't you think?

What if we have players in our squads merely to make up the numbers? Bit harsh to make us play them 5 times if we don't want them at all, isn't it? ;/

Yossi

28-11-2005, 22:12

Then you should get rid and get in better players.

Highway Penguin

28-11-2005, 22:46

5 games should hurt you too bad, especially if you manage them smart. Check out your opponent for weakness, play one of your weaker players there for that game. Know what I mean?

Stella Artois

29-11-2005, 01:31

Then you should get rid and get in better players.

OK, sell me all your best players?

It doesn't work like that. Securing a squad of 22 excellent players is extremely difficult.

Preki-USA

29-11-2005, 01:33

. Securing a squad of 22 excellent players is extremely difficult.

and thats an understatement

Figо10

29-11-2005, 08:04

What if we have players in our squads merely to make up the numbers? Bit harsh to make us play them 5 times if we don't want them at all, isn't it? ;/
That's squad roation for us. Yuo just release him or loan him out if you don't intend to play him, or get more players for less important positions, like the forward line.
5 games should hurt you too bad, especially if you manage them smart. Check out your opponent for weakness, play one of your weaker players there for that game. Know what I mean?
For me I'll be packing my squad with midfielders and replace two of them every game in 4-5-1 formations :D Just to satisfy the rules ;)

Usul

29-11-2005, 14:52

I think rule four makes rule one quite useless and unfair to some. I am going to have to resort to signing a mediocre left back because no one wants to even loan one so being forced to use him five times is just nonsense. Using him once or twice so i can rest my main one sounds like the most realistic thing to do. Five fixtures is a lot for our divisions with only ten teams each. That meas that my left flank will be considerably weaker for five games. Maybe its worse for me because i was in D2 and my squad does not have the advantages that the others in this division had but i still dont like that rule.

Stella Artois

29-11-2005, 14:59

Well, that's exactly what I was getting at Maud...but still certain people have good teams already, so it won't affect them. ;)

Usul

29-11-2005, 15:16

Precisely. In essence its not a logical rule. Five games is a quarter of the season and thats a lot of points that i might lose because im forced to field lesser players . And dont give me this sign better players crap. Its easy for some of you to say but what can i do if no one wants to make good deals. They are all used to big numbers now and keep a good hold of the most renowned ones. Which, granted, i do too but, honestly, this rotation rules should exist just so we make sure that managers dont always use the same players or formations and rule one is not necessary to accomplish this. It is in fact extreme.

nikos24

07-01-2006, 08:35

I have thought of an idea of possibly making the FL games a tad better. Lets bring in the 'Subs's' plan. What is this Subs plan? Since we do have many subs every game we play, it is hard to determine which exact three subs are to come in. Now what im trying to imply is that, before each game played, we should set our three subs already who are going to feature in the game and what particular time they come in. For example.

-------------------Nikopolidis---------------------

Salgado--------Givet---------Alex----------Aurelio

--------------------Albelda----------------------

Stelios---------------------------------------Figo

-------------------Nakamura---------------------

--------Morientes---------------Trezeguet--------

Subs: Coupet, Campbell, Makelele, Joaquin, Charisteas.

Ok, along with the formation for each game, we write down something like this. 57' Morientes for Charisteas. 66' Coupet for Nikopolidis. 78' Figo for Joaquin.

Know what i mean mates? In this way, it is easy to determine who is actually going to participate in the game, instead of saying 'Oh this guy has a stronger bench' and probably some of his 'bench' players wont even feature. This way, people can also vote for more properly and those sensible voters can comment something like 'Wow, Ronaldo coming on later on for Tuncay can definitely change the complexion of the match' 'I think i'll vote for this guy because his subs can be more effective'.

Something like that, anyway, that is just an idea. Squad rotation, undoubtedly, still take in place, no doubt. Just wanted to know what you think of this particular idea fellow managers?

Any Particular thoughts on this idea?

nikos24

07-01-2006, 08:36

You know, since most people or managers are actually over the limit of a squad containing 22 players. I suggest, in order to start the season earlier, and to get the fun going, lets increase the squad amount to a total of 25 players. In this way, we may start the season earlier and/or hopefully reduce these talks on regarding when the season will actually start. These three extra players we will be having in our squad can be put into our 'Injury/Reserve list', means we may not use them until we replace an outgoing 'Reserve' player with one of our subs, or 'starter' if needed. Or to make it simple, might as well remove this imaginary 'Injury/reserve list', and this will increase our chances on more subs and more new formations, complete squad rotation etc. This is just an idea so we can get the FL starting, its been far too long. I am actually done with my squad, problem is the limit, if this takes into place, i will have no problem either selling, loaning or even releasing my other two players (since i have a 27 man squad), and for those other managers whose got a limit over 22 will also minimize their squad problems. I'm sure this will work out, or atleast lets make it work for the sake of the FL.

Scarface

07-01-2006, 12:27

No chance, we can't change the rules now, it'd be chaos. Most managers have a 22 player squad anyway, it's only a few that have over 22. 22 is the limit.

nikos24

07-01-2006, 13:29

No chance, we can't change the rules now, it'd be chaos. Most managers have a 22 player squad anyway, it's only a few that have over 22. 22 is the limit.

I see, oh well, i better get working on my squad then. ;)

Usul

07-01-2006, 13:34

22 is more than enough.

I motion to have the number of games that each player must participate in to be brought down to 3. This combined to the maximum number of consecutive matches allowed for each player should be sufficent to ensure that we have a healthy squad rotation.

This rules should apply to all the competitions combined, of course.

nikos24

07-01-2006, 14:01

Rangers_Fureva

07-01-2006, 14:12

Three games, the minimum amount of each player to participate in, for the whole season Muad?

:mellow: Obviously not, he means that he can be played for 3 games only then must be benched for another player.

nikos24

07-01-2006, 14:29

:mellow: Obviously not, he means that he can be played for 3 games only then must be benched for another player.

I see, thanks for letting me know mate, i would have been lost. :lol:. I get the picture now.

Usul

07-01-2006, 15:00

Thats not really what i meant. There are cup games involved and so i guess we could make it four the least...? Three consecutive games sounds ok, but maybe we should make that four as well...? :mellow:

Yossi

07-01-2006, 18:50

A point that has not been brought up yet which probably needs addressing.

We will obviously buy some players in the mid-season transfer window. What is the minimum amount of games they must play?

Scarface

07-01-2006, 18:52

Yeah, I was thinking that, and also the players that are being loaned for half a season.

Highway Penguin

07-01-2006, 19:57

I think that players brought into the squad half way through should start on a clean slate.

-I'll try and get your questions answered as soon as possible.

Preki-USA

29-01-2006, 21:09

so can we get an official ruling on this RULE please

i still don't know what exactly is going on

Rangers_Fureva

29-01-2006, 21:13

so can we get an official ruling on this RULE please

i still don't know what exactly is going on

Squad Rotation Rules

1. Every squad member must play 5 games.
2. No max number of changes each game in your line-up.
3. No minimum number of changes each game in your line-up, but this can't interfere with rule 1.
4. 6 consecutive games are allowed to be played for one player.

Preki-USA

29-01-2006, 21:16

I love you

thanks

Yossi

29-01-2006, 21:19

It's minimum 5 games. :mellow: I didn't think it was that many was it?

Rangers_Fureva

29-01-2006, 21:20

I love you

thanks

:mellow:

No probs, i love you too.(i think)

Nedy

29-01-2006, 22:01

How many subs we can have in the matches? 5 or 7? I propose 7......

Highway Penguin

30-01-2006, 00:08

I don't think it really matters, does it?

Anyone care?

Yossi

30-01-2006, 00:09

It doesn't matter, they aren't even used.

-Rafa-

30-01-2006, 00:14

i reckon 7 just for the hell of it

Scarface

30-01-2006, 00:15

Not a big deal, but i'd say 5 is better, as not only will pitch templates look neater, it's less likely that someone will judge the outcome of the match because a team has better subs, which could be quite annoying considering they are supposed to be "rested" as part of the Squad rotation.

Keyser Soze

30-01-2006, 00:16

Highway Penguin

30-01-2006, 00:18

Anyone know where Figo is? He is suppose to be monatoring the D1 teams' squad rotation. I also can't remember who wanted to do the D2, anyone interested in it? All you'd have to do is count the amount of times a player plays in a row and that season.

:)

Top Gun

30-01-2006, 00:18

I think that we shouldn't have any subs on the pitch as they don't play but if we have to then 5 will be best.

Preki-USA

30-01-2006, 00:19

depth should matter a little bit, but not much, thats why 5 is perfect

P.S., i'll do D2, but im not gonna like it as it seems some manager will be tough to contact

nikos24

30-01-2006, 00:21

Figo is likely to go online in around two hours time ;)

Keyser Soze

30-01-2006, 00:22

I don't see the point in subs being there, because if you are forced to have play a second string team because of squad rotation, but have Ronaldinho, Xavi, Robinho, Eto'o and Toldo on the bench, people may judge the game on the quality of the bench. I just think it may intefere with the squad rotation.

Preki-USA

30-01-2006, 00:24

that is a good point, but how bout the bench must be match eligible.

Scarface

30-01-2006, 00:29

that is a good point, but how bout the bench must be match eligible.

Do you mean the players on the bench won't count as being rested? The problem with that is one of the rules says we can change as many players as we want per match, but that wouldn't be the case, as the most we could change per match would be 6.

Preki-USA

30-01-2006, 00:31

oh, yea, didn't think that through all the way

maybe 3 subs then

Scarface

30-01-2006, 00:35

oh, yea, didn't think that through all the way

maybe 3 subs then

I didn't think your idea was bad, I agree 5 subs is best, but the rules would just need to be slightly altered. Actually, they wouldn't, because they can change as many as they want, but the highest amount of changes could only be 6, due to the match squads consisting of 16 players, if that makes sense. I've confused myself :ninja:

Keyser Soze

30-01-2006, 00:40

I've confused myself :ninja:
And me. :ninja:

Just make sure we clear up the rules before the season kicks off, please.

Highway Penguin

30-01-2006, 00:52

I don't think your subs should have to be eligible to play to be on the bench....

Figо10

30-01-2006, 02:13

Anyone know where Figo is? He is suppose to be monatoring the D1 teams' squad rotation.
Been away for two days fer Chinese New Year, it's a busy time for me, gotta go visiting, almost no free time to come online at all.

Don't worry man, I know how to do that. Just need the completed squads and I'll record down the total number of games the team has played, the number of games the players have each played in, and how many they have played in consecutively leading up to the next one.

One new post for each matchday so you'll be able to spot any mistake between the recordings on new matchdays.

And I'll also post those who hit 6 consecutive games and are thus ineligible to play in the upcoming one.

Sounds fine? :)

Preki-USA

30-01-2006, 02:16

YEAH, good work

ill be up for doing D2 if thats okay

Highway Penguin

30-01-2006, 02:38

Sounds good to me guys. :)

Eugene, that sounds great. Preki, if you can do the same, that'd be great. :)

Scarface

31-01-2006, 00:03

Another thing that needs clearing up is the amount of games a player that is being loaned out for half a season must play? 2 for the team that is loaning them, and 3 for the team that owns them?

Oh, and like Yossi asked:

We will obviously buy some players in the mid-season transfer window. What is the minimum amount of games they must play?

Is 2 reasonable?

Also, as Muad mentioned, will the Squad Rotation include the Cup competitions? It could get quite complicated with some managers involved in more cup games than others.

Usul

31-01-2006, 02:26

The subs on the bench is quite a problem. One thing is certain, if you are resting one of your players they can be nowhere near the pitch.

If them being on the bench counts as an appearance it would ensure that the bench is not always too strong and hence influence the voting.

It will also add to the rotation greatly but we would need to increase the number of fixtures that each player can participate in.

If them being on the bench does not count as an appearance then someone like HP, for instance, could just keep Dinho on the bench indefinitely and people might be swayed by that, posting stuff like when Dinho comes into the second half he will rip this or that defense apart.

Realistically, players that are benched most of the season always appear throughout the entire campaign because they play less minutes and are less fatigued, naturally, so counting their presence on the bench as an appearance isnt really fair either.

Maybe it could count as half an appearance... :P

Preki-USA

31-01-2006, 02:44

im gonna keep track of this and it would be appreciated if it were not too complicated

Highway Penguin

31-01-2006, 03:05

Haha Preki. :laugh:

- I think 3 for the team that has asked for the player and 2 for the team that has loaned them out. Mainly because the person who loaned the player in wanted the player and would be more inclined to play them, while the one who loaned them out will not want to play them. Seems unfair to have to have the manager play a player who has been forced into the team.

- Yeah, 2 is reasonable. :)

- Cup competition should have a seperate squad rotation. Just because not all the teams will be in the cup matches. :) Any ideas on how many games a player must play etc? Something like every other game you have to rest 4 different players? Just throwing something out there.

Figо10

31-01-2006, 13:54

Also, as Muad mentioned, will the Squad Rotation include the Cup competitions? It could get quite complicated with some managers involved in more cup games than others.
I think it'll be more complicated if Squad Rotation is done separately, as that'll mean separate lists, separates rules and figures etc. In real life a team could also rest key players for a league match to prepare for a cup tie, so why not apply it in FL as well?

Three is the biggest possible difference in number of games played by any two teams, so it wouldn't have much effect since the minimum number of games a team will play in a season is 22.

Preki-USA

31-01-2006, 14:37

i agree, i think they should be all done together :)

Figо10

31-01-2006, 14:43

What do you all think of a presentation like this?

eg. Galaxy
..................... GP.......AP.......CG........E
tiago................8........ 3.........0.........Y
rosicky.............8......... 5........4.........Y
pirlo.................8....... ..6........6.........N

out of next match: pirlo

GP - total games played (by team)
AP - appearances (by player)
CG - number of consecutive games the player has played leading up to the next one
E - eligibility (yes/no)

Games played will be important after midseason when deals will be done, and if you choose to combine cup and league apperances, which I think should happen.

Figо10

31-01-2006, 14:46

- I think 3 for the team that has asked for the player and 2 for the team that has loaned them out. Mainly because the person who loaned the player in wanted the player and would be more inclined to play them, while the one who loaned them out will not want to play them. Seems unfair to have to have the manager play a player who has been forced into the team.
So that means in order to loan a player out during the mid-season transfer window, that player has to have played two games at least?

If so, it sounds fine :)

Yossi

31-01-2006, 19:07

Another way to keep control of the amount of games played is, using my team as an example:

Baraja..........OOO
Forlan..........OOO
Milito............OOO
Boulahrouz...OOO

You get the point. It lets you see how many games in a row a player has played, and shows how many in total.

Scarface

31-01-2006, 19:39

I think it'll be more complicated if Squad Rotation is done separately, as that'll mean separate lists, separates rules and figures etc. In real life a team could also rest key players for a league match to prepare for a cup tie, so why not apply it in FL as well?

Three is the biggest possible difference in number of games played by any two teams, so it wouldn't have much effect since the minimum number of games a team will play in a season is 22.

Not it's not, there will be 2 Cup competitions this season. If the best teams progress the furthest, as you would expect, they gain even more of an advantage by the fact they have several more possible games to rest players. In real life you can rest players anytime, but they don't have this squad rotation rule or these type of rules set to try to make teams more closely matched.

Figо10

01-02-2006, 06:20

Not it's not, there will be 2 Cup competitions this season.
I see :) Didn't know that until I checked the Match Area thread this morning.

Should we have a poll for FL members whether they wanna combine the Cup and League appearances?

Preki-USA

01-02-2006, 06:24

i think so :)

-Rafa-

01-02-2006, 08:20

same :)

Scarface

01-02-2006, 22:51

There's no need for a poll, i'm sure Victor will make the right decision based on his own opinion and what other managers think. Personally, I don't mind either way, there are pro's and con's whichever way we go.

Colt Python

02-02-2006, 20:12

I think squad rotation won't work. Why? Because there are 22 managers in this league and sooner or later they will get fed up having to make up X amount of jpg's, gif's, bmp images for their team and get bored fast.

Any idea changes that come up sound good but if you think about it it makes the FL time consuming and almost a chore to keep up. Where's the fun in that? It should be by choice if they change their team around or not.

It's becoming far more complicated than need be.

Keyser Soze

02-02-2006, 21:52

Yossi

02-02-2006, 21:58

I actually disagree, I reckon it will keep managers interested and involved as opposed to last season when you could've just selected an 11, and not bothered with the league for the rest of the season.

About the rotation system, I feel that cup games should count as games.

Highway Penguin

02-02-2006, 22:35

You won't be on every week changing your formation. You could just come on every 2-3 weeks and make a new formation. I'm sure most will. If you are someone who really wants your team to succeed and etc, then you wil probably be on every week changing it up, etc.
Anyways, League and Cup games-
I'm a bit torn on this subject. I'd like to say that they are seperate, but that may add a bit more confusion, but it'd also be very hard to have them together. I'd like to see a couple more opinions as I need to have my final decision tonight.

Scarface

02-02-2006, 22:39

I think it's probably best we have rotation in both the League and Cups, that's what most people want.

Usul

03-02-2006, 10:01

I say both.

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 01:20

We'll do squad rotation in both Leagues and Cups.

Colt Python

04-02-2006, 12:53

Well that's me relegated then.

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 15:18

It's not as though others won't have to rotate as well, bro. It'll be a hard battle, but everyone will feel the effects. :)

Scarface

04-02-2006, 15:20

So what are the exact rules? Every player has to play 5 games over the whole season (League and Cup)?

Nedy

04-02-2006, 15:32

The players can play 5 matches and then go to the bench, and then can play again? Or only play 5 matches in the whole season?

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 15:36

A player has to play at least 5 in the league and 3 in the cup circuit...?
It may give managers with a smaller depth a better chance to win it.

What about consecutive games?

Colt Python

04-02-2006, 15:47

I don't think consectutive games should come into it. As long as the squad players play the acquired total then we should pick and choose the matches.

Keyser Soze

04-02-2006, 16:02

Yeah, I agree with Colt. And if we are doing two seperate rotations for the Cup and League, can't they both be 3 players a season?

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 16:05

You, James, and I will talk on MSN about this. It needs to be sorted out, as it seems there are conflicting ideas...

Rangers_Fureva

04-02-2006, 16:07

A player has to play at least 5 in the league and 3 in the cup circuit...?
It may give managers with a smaller depth a better chance to win it.

What about consecutive games?

Nah i wouldn't bother with consecutive games either, just do it the way you said, players play a minimum of 5 in the league and 3 in the cup(s).:cool:

Scarface

04-02-2006, 16:49

3 for Cup games? How many cup games will we have? Those who are eliminated early on will hardly even get a chance to rotate that much will they? I'll be on msn anytime now if you want to discuss it.

Yossi

04-02-2006, 17:18

I don't think consectutive games should come into it. As long as the squad players play the acquired total then we should pick and choose the matches.
I disagree. If that was the case, then some players would end up playing every game. Players should only be allowed to play 6 in a row.
A player has to play at least 5 in the league and 3 in the cup circuit...?
It may give managers with a smaller depth a better chance to win it.
Well, we'd have to have 6 games before teams get eliminated for that to work, and everyone could only play a maximum of 3 games too. That would just be stupid.

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 18:47

That's what I'm getting at, in the cup we can't really say how many games to play, because everyone is going to be in the cup for different amounts of time. It's not like the league where we know how many games everyone has etc.

I want the consecutive games, just so we don't have certain players playing every game.

-Reyes and Colt, hop on MSN whenever you get a chance.

Yossi

04-02-2006, 19:47

Didn't we agree on 6 consecutive games once upon a time though?

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 19:58

Yes, we did. :) I was just a bit confused on how we'd put it all together. James and I sorted it out though.

League Games-
6 consecutive matches before being dropped
5 games from each player on the squad

Cups-
No rotation rules. Play who you want, when you want.

Yossi

04-02-2006, 20:00

Glad that's sorted. But I still get the feeling someone is going to complain.

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 20:02

I don't think we'll get everyone in the FL to be satisfied, ever. :)

Preki-USA

04-02-2006, 20:27

HP when I'm keeping track of this where should I post the info, like what thread?

Preki-USA

04-02-2006, 20:27

HP when I'm keeping track of this where should I post the info, like what thread?

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 21:44

I'll make that right now. :)

Usul

04-02-2006, 21:48

Yossi

04-02-2006, 21:59

I am fine with the league rules, but there should definitely be at least some rotation in the cup, even if it's just something minor, like for example two players swapped from last cup game, or every player must play one game.

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 22:00

It was going to get too complicated with the cup games and rotation.

Usul

04-02-2006, 22:03

Maybe both Cup and League games should be subjected to the same rotation rules.

Highway Penguin

04-02-2006, 22:29

-Rafa-

04-02-2006, 22:50

so what is the final rule?

Usul

04-02-2006, 23:17

No, this is final. It's a happy medium. We've got squad rotation and no rotation in the Cup games. It'll give teams who have got a strong starting 11 a better chance to win the Cup. After all, they'll be able to win their league (D1 or D2) and the WCL.
This is not about settling for what pleases the most people. We should try to come up with good and sensible rules. Sometimes rules do not appeal to everyone but that does not mean that they are useless or they make no sense.

Hansel

09-02-2006, 09:19

Sorry guys but I don't get this Rotation thing, at all.. :(

Scarface

09-02-2006, 14:10

The only thing you need to remember is that all 22 players you have in your squad must play at least 5 games during the 18 game season. No player can play more than 6 games in a row. Preki updates the number of appearances per squad player after each match in the Squad Rotation Thread, so no work is required other than checking that and making the necessary changes.

*Every player must play 5 games at least
*The maximum amount of games a player can play consecutively is 6.

Hansel

09-02-2006, 14:30

Oh, I feel so stupid now. :laugh: :blush:

Thanks again. :)

Keyser Soze

19-02-2006, 03:39

Does consecutive games count in the Cup? E.G. Emerson plays against HP then again in the WCL, would that count as two consecutive games?

martin_cranie

19-02-2006, 04:02

I wouldn't think so Mat. If there's no rotation to begin with, then it seems unreasonable to include limits on consecutive matches.

Scarface

19-02-2006, 04:07

No Squad rotation rules apply in the Cups. There are no limitations on your lineup in any cup game.

Keyser Soze

19-02-2006, 04:15

Cool, cheers guys.

Scarface

25-02-2006, 01:39

Still some confusion over the Squad Rotation rules, so hopefully this will clear it up for good.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Squad Rotation Rules

League Games:
Each player can play a maximum of 6 consecutive games before being dropped.

Each squad player should play a minimum of 5 games over the season.
*Minimum of 3 games from each new mid-season signing.

Players on a half season loan should play a minimum of 2 games during the half season (by the end of game 9, or 18 if signed in mid-season)

Cup Matches:
No rotation rules. Play who you want, when you want.

Preki-USA

25-02-2006, 01:41

what if i drop galletti during the midseason transfer window?

does he need to play twice before I drop him?

Scarface

25-02-2006, 01:43

No player has to play a certain amount of games by the mid-season period, other than players on a half season loan, who should have played 2 matches by then.

Preki-USA

25-02-2006, 04:23

ah alright gotcha

Keyser Soze

25-02-2006, 04:24

It's a lot more simpler than I orginally thought actually. :mellow:

Hansel

25-02-2006, 04:29

League Games:
Each player can play a maximum of 6 consecutive games before being dropped.

Please elaborate, what if I don't play him 6 games consecutivly(sp?) ?
What happens then? :unsure:

nikos24

25-02-2006, 04:30

It's a lot more simpler than I orginally though actually. :mellow:

Mat, I've currently noticed that this ----> :mellow: happens to be your favourite smiley. :tongue:

Keyser Soze

25-02-2006, 04:32

:laugh: Well actually its just one of the few I know off by heart in writing. :mellow:

Please elaborate, what if I don't play him 6 games consecutivly(sp?) ?
What happens then? :unsure:
In a row.

Hansel

25-02-2006, 04:34

I know what it means, but like if i play him 5 games, then don't play him for one, then i play him again, is that his last game or does it start over again from 0?

Keyser Soze

25-02-2006, 04:35

I know what it means, but like if i play him 5 games, then don't play him for one, then i play him again, is that his last game or does it start over again from 0?
Oh, it starts over again from 0.

Hansel

25-02-2006, 04:36

Oh ok thanks. :)

Phatmann2003

02-03-2006, 11:00

Does Solskjaer have to play 5 games for me? :huh:

Keyser Soze

02-03-2006, 13:25

Does Solskjaer have to play 5 games for me? :huh:
I think so. Unless you release him in the transfer window and pick up someone else, who will only have to play two games.

Keyser Soze

10-03-2006, 23:57

Sorry, I've got another question; After the mid-season window, do the consecutive games follow on from the previous league game before the window?

martin_cranie

11-03-2006, 00:57

I should think they do mate. Any new signings will carry on their record from previous clubs, and presumably if anyone signed an unknown they would start afresh. I'd view the rotation rule as like a ban in real life; it carries on for the set amount of games, regardless of breaks in play.

Highway Penguin

11-03-2006, 01:44

Figо10

11-03-2006, 02:13

Ronaldo 9

11-03-2006, 11:14

here's my squad rotation list Reyes or whoever is doing it:

Player suspended: NONE

Santiago Canizares . . . . . . . .XXXX0 Total: 4
Vitor Baia . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0000X Total: 1

Ivan Cordoba . . . . . . . . . . . .0000X Total: 1
Lilian Thuram . . . . . . . . . . . .XXXX0 Total: 4
Walter Samuel . . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX Total: 5
Ledley King . . . . . . . . . . . . . .00XXX Total: 3
Santiago Solari . . . . . . . . . . .XX0X0 Total: 3
Michel Salgado . . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX Total: 5
Geremi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .00000 Total: 0
Diego Placente . . . . . . . . . . .00XXX Total: 3

Patrick Vieira . . . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX Total: 5
Massimo Ambrosini . . . . . . . .0X000 Total: 1
Zinedine Zidane . . . . . . . . . .XXXX0 Total: 4
Jermaine Jenas . . . . . . . . . . .00000 Total: 0
Kieron Dyer . . . . . . . . . . . . .00000 Total: 0
David Beckham . . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX Total: 5
Francesco Totti . . . . . . . . . .XXX0X Total: 4
Shabani Nonda . . . . . . . . . . .00000 Total: 0

Fernando Morientes . . . . . . . .00000 Total: 0
Ruud van Nistelrooy (HS). . . . .XXXXX Total: 5
Patrick Kluivert . . . . . . . . . . .00000 Total: 0
Ryan Giggs . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X000X Total: 2

Keyser Soze

11-03-2006, 15:55

Updated squad rotation including this weeks game:

Dida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X0X000 = 2
Silvio Proto . . . . . . . . . . . .0X0XXX = 4

Roberto Ayala . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX0 = 5
Lucio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 6
Javier Zanetti . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Marek Jankulovski . . . . . . . .0XX0XX = 4
Juanito . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1
Jonathan Zebina . . . . . . . . .000X0X = 2
Patrice Evra . . . . . . . . . . . .X00X00 = 3

Emerson . . . . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Shaun Wright-Phillips . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Pavel Nedved . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Costinha . . . . . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1
Alessio Tacchinardi . . . . . . .X00000 = 1
Jerome Rothen . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1
Stephen Appiah . . . . . . . . .0XX000 = 2
Stefano Fiore . . . . . . . . . . .000XX0 = 2
Benoit Pedretti . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1

Alberto Gilardino . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Alvaro Recoba . . . . . . . . . .000XX0X = 3
Carlos Tevez . . . . . . . . . . .0X0XX0 = 3
Roy Makaay . . . . . . . . . . . .X0X00X = 3

Hansel

11-03-2006, 16:12

I've already done mine, it's in my thread...
Shall I post it here?

Ronaldo 9

11-03-2006, 16:26

I've already done mine, it's in my thread...
Shall I post it here?

No you don't have to, I did it only cos I saw that mine wasn't updated and thought of helping the guyz there.

Usul

11-03-2006, 16:53

Correct, the break won't change the consecutive amount of games for a player, players from new clubs will carrry over their played games and consecutive games played, and new players will start fresh. :)

Rich got it all.
Amount of games played should obviously still count but after the break there is no logical reason to keep the consecutive game tally. It is supposed to simulate a break/resting period, no?

Highway Penguin

11-03-2006, 19:07

Yup, but we aren't going to reset all the games played consecutively.

Keyser Soze

19-03-2006, 01:05

Updated squad rotation including this weeks game:

Dida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X0X000 = 2
Silvio Proto . . . . . . . . . . . .0X0XXX = 4

Roberto Ayala . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX0 = 5
Lucio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Javier Zanetti . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Marek Jankulovski . . . . . . . .0XX0XX = 4
Juanito . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1
Jonathan Zebina . . . . . . . . .000X0X = 2
Patrice Evra . . . . . . . . . . . .X00X00 = 3

Emerson . . . . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Shaun Wright-Phillips . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Pavel Nedved . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Costinha . . . . . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1
Alessio Tacchinardi . . . . . . .X00000 = 1
Jerome Rothen . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1
Stephen Appiah . . . . . . . . .0XX000 = 2
Stefano Fiore . . . . . . . . . . .000XX0 = 2
Benoit Pedretti . . . . . . . . . .000X00 = 1

Alberto Gilardino . . . . . . . . .XXX0XX = 5
Alvaro Recoba . . . . . . . . . .000XX0X = 3
Carlos Tevez . . . . . . . . . . .0X0XX0 = 3
Roy Makaay . . . . . . . . . . . .X0X00X = 3

martin_cranie

19-03-2006, 01:25

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3721/squadrotationtable3ee.png (http://imageshack.us)

Keyser Soze

19-03-2006, 01:30

Makes my chart look like a streak of piss.

Damn you and your fancy spread-sheets. ;)

martin_cranie

19-03-2006, 01:33

:laugh:

If you want me to email you the template, so you can edit it in excel, then i'll happily oblige mate.

Keyser Soze

19-03-2006, 01:36

:laugh:

If you want me to email you the template, so you can edit it in excel, then i'll happily oblige mate.
Nah, I'm just messing mate. Thanks anyway.

Scarface

19-03-2006, 03:11

:laugh:

If you want me to email you the template, so you can edit it in excel, then i'll happily oblige mate.

Can you send me the template please? I'd use it for the D1 teams each week to make it all a lot clearer and more presentable.

Preki-USA

19-03-2006, 05:01

and yah, send me the d2 if you'd be so kind ;)

Rangers_Fureva

19-03-2006, 12:10

Rangers Casuals Ltd

GK-
Leo Franco..................XX00XX Total: 4
Tim Weise...................00XX00 Total: 2

DEF-
Cristian Zaccardo.........0X0X00 Total: 2
Maicon.......................X 0X0XX Total: 4
Van Buyton.................XX0XXX Total: 5
Marchena....................X0 X0XX Total: 4
Juan.......................... .0XXXX0 Total: 4
Dede.......................... .XX00X0 Total: 3
Gustavo Nery................00XX0X Total: 3

MID-
Rio Mavuba...................XXX00 0 Total: 3
Van Der Vaart................XX000X Total: 3
Alex.......................... ...000X00 Total: 1
Ibagaza....................... .00000X Total: 1
De Rossi.......................XX 0XXX Total: 5
Denny Landzaat.............00X000 Total: 1
Torsten Frings...............000X0X Total: 2
Pablo Garcia.................00X0X0 Total: 2

FWD-
Del Piero.....................XXXX X0 Total: 5
David Villa...................XXX00X Total: 4
Javier Saviola..............00XXX0 Total: 3
Miroslav Klose..............000X0X Total: 2
Obafemi Martins...........XX0XX0 Total: 4

Players Suspended- NONE

Yossi

19-03-2006, 20:49

GK-
Carlos Kameni......XX0X0X Total: 4
Robert Green.......00X0X0 Total: 2

DEF-
Mariano Pernia.....00X000 Total: 1
Gabriel Milito ......XXX000 Total: 3
Hatem Trabelsi....X00X0X Total: 3
Kolo Toure..........XX0XXX Total: 5
Sylvinho.............XX0XXX Total: 5
Luke Young.........0XX0X0 Total: 3
Gonzalo..............X0XX0X Total: 4
Boulahrouz..........000XX0 Total: 2

MID-
Perrotta..............XXX00X Total: 4
Ruben Baraja........X000XX Total: 3
Maxi Rodriguez......0X00X0 Total: 2
Vicente...............0XX0XX Total: 4
Marcos Assuncao..000XXX Total: 3
Yeste.................0X0000 Total: 1
Karagounis..........0XX000 Total: 2
Darren Fletcher....000X00 Total: 1

FWD-
Pablo Aimar.........X0XX0X Total: 4
Raul Tamudo........00X000 Total: 1
Diego Forlan........XXXXXX Total: 6
Adrian Mutu.........X00XX0 Total: 3

Nedy

19-03-2006, 20:56

Chacarita FC

Keeper:
Fabien Barthez- 000XX0 = 2
Mickael Landreau- XXX00X = 4

Defenders:
Y.P. Lee- X0X00X = 3
Fabricio Coloccini- XX0X0X = 4
Jonathan Woodgate- XXX00X = 4
Giovanni Van Bronkhorst- 0XXXX0 = 4
Radhi Jaidi- 000XX0 = 2
Steven Taylor- 00XXX0 = 3
Pascal Chimbonda- XX000X = 3

Midfielders:
Javier Mascherano- XX0XXX = 5
Quaresma- X0X00X = 3
Lionel Messi- XXX00X = 4
Hidetoshi Nakata- 00XXX0 = 3
Andres Iniesta- X00X0X = 3
Ewerthon- 0X00X0 = 2
Hedwiges Maduro- 0XX0XX = 4
Alan Smith- XX0000 = 2
Daniel Carvalho- 000XX0 = 2

Strikers:
Jermaine Defoe- 00X0X0 = 2
Sylvain Wiltord- X0X000 = 2
John Carew- 0X0X0X = 3
Pedro Miguel Pauleta- 000XX0 = 2

Player Suspended: None

Scarface

19-03-2006, 20:57

Thanks to those who updated their squad rotation. Preki is updating the D2 teams later when he gets the chance. I'm just in the process of updating D1, few teams to go. Hopefully they'll both be converted to the Excel charts Rich is using in the next couple of days, and they will be used from now on.

Scarface

05-04-2006, 23:18

Division 1 teams squad rotation stats updated, bar Nikos and Figo. No suspensions this week.

Preki-USA

05-04-2006, 23:26

im confused, what needs to be done in regards to squad rotation for D2

Scarface

05-04-2006, 23:29

Just the usual updating, with the matchday 7 stats included.

Preki-USA

05-04-2006, 23:34

i don't know how to do the tables man... :(

Scarface

05-04-2006, 23:40

Just do it the way you usually do, if you want. I think Rich gave an explanation of how to do it somewhere. I'll do Sheed's later, since I did his in the excel format after matchday 6.

Keyser Soze

16-04-2006, 15:33

From Week 9:

Dida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X0X000XXX = 5
Silvio Proto . . . . . . . . . . . .0X0XXX00 = 4

Roberto Ayala . . . . . . . . . .XXXXX0XXX = 8
Lucio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XXXXX = 8
Javier Zanetti . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XXXXX = 8
Marek Jankulovski . . . . . . . .0XX0XX0XX = 6
Juanito . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .000X00000 = 1
Jonathan Zebina . . . . . . . . .000X0X000 = 2
Patrice Evra . . . . . . . . . . . .X00X00X00 = 3

Emerson . . . . . . . . . . . . . .XXX0XXXXX = 8
Shaun Wright-Phillips . . . . . .XXX0XXXXX = 8
P