Pro Evo World of Soccer?

[cheezy]

i don't know if anyone remembers SWOS, aka Sensible World Of Soccer? although the graphics sucked big time (i'm talking a '95 amiga game based on a '93 engine) the fast paced but still very realistic gameplay was really fun. but what made the game really great was the humongous database with +20.000 players from all possible clubs & leagues all around the world (mostly europe though), from iceland to albania, AND the possibility to be both manager of your team (buying and selling players) and actually playing ball yourself!!!

what i'm trying to say is this:

what PES/WE needs to become the greatest computer game of all time is not a new load of petty details like shirts getting dirtier over a game or fancier bench graphics, but this: A COMBINATION OF CLUB MANAGEMENT OPTIONS AND PES GAMEPLAY + A HUGE CLUB/PLAYER DATABASE !!!

the fun of taking a team from the english 3rd division into the champions league over the years, while building up your club AND actually playing your own games is really tremendous...

you don't need a management system as complex as e.g. championship manager, but a decent slightly simplified engine that allows you to buy and sell players from clubs all over the world and to get your budget going

so here is a list of some suggestions for my dream version of PES:

1. improved database with entire leagues & teams (if the licenses are too expensive, use fake names that can be edited) and more national squads. also the lower divisions of the major leagues (england, spain, italy, germany, france...) should be playable! a good search engine would come in handy when you're dealing with a large player database and looking for a good transfer

2. improved editor with the possibility of creating new players, teams and possibility to design new leagues

3. enhanced management options such as buying/selling players, stadium improvement, youth squad training, sponsoring, scouting...

4. new 'interactive' stadium graphics that show the stadium you have built yourself, with visual attendance (eg pre season friendly with almost empty stands and top league matches at full capacity)

5. possibility to get sacked as a player/manager and/or change teams during the game (eg job offers when you're playing good, warnings from the chairman when you're making a mess of it)

...

there are plenty more ideas where this came from, but i'll give it a rest here :)

is there any chance someone at KCET could be reading this???

keep up the great work!!!



...forgive me, i had to get this off my chest

[Zygalski]

We'd all like those things to happen.
But they would have to put a lot of effort into it, as well as a lot of money, which they are not fans of.

Can you imagine how many fake player faces and names they'd have to make up, along with the commentary for them?

We can be hopeful and positive though!

[cheezy]

if they would at least provide us with a good editor which allows us to create players, teams and leagues, we'd be able to achieve some of it ourselves...

[Robinho]

more spaces for club teams that we could even go to the trouble of creating, instead of having to edit/remove a club fully in order to have a new 1 that we actually want. ie hamburg are awful ive never played with them, so they got booted for auxerre

[Zygalski]

How would it work if you want to play your master league team (with one hamburg player you bought) against someone else's where there is no hamburg?

Too much editing and it has to stay a one player game.

There should be more universal and improved editor.

[Robinho]

I would never buy a Hamburg player 'cos they're all shit :p

nah i know what you're saying but i'm happy it being a 1-player game. when i play against my mates we just play with club/national teams

[hitmanuk2k]

and yes.... the 2,000th post! lol, sorry.... just a bit pleased with how the forums are developing so quickly :)

[PES Master]

PES Rulez!!!!!

[Zygalski]

So does PES2!
And WE6:FE!

And so will PES3!

[MaX_NormaL]

SWOS was brilliant, wish I still had me old Amiga now.:(

Wouldn't mind waiting longer fr them to implement any of that stuff in the new game, maybe PES4 though.;)

[Zygalski]

You could probably play it on your PC with an Amiga emulator is you have the disks (or somehow download them).

[NIBOD]

couldn't agree more Cheezy,SWOS was a great game,the best until the evolution series came along.The points you made would surely make this the greatest fotty game ever made

[evertonarelush]

Originally posted by Zygalski
You could probably play it on your PC with an Amiga emulator is you have the disks (or somehow download them).

Isn't Warez Dicussion Disallowed?

[mikeom1]

It is indeed evertonarelush, they should have emphasised the need to own an original copy of the game :)

[hitmanuk2k]

they made swos available online for free so it aint illegal to discuss it :) i cant remember the url though

[Zygalski]

I bought 2 or 3 versions of SWOS back in the olden Amiga days.
I just mentioned that they were available for free somewhere but I didn't know where so I didn't say.

It was a classy game but sometimes you would lost money due to gate receipts for no apparent reason
(Win the premiership, Champion's League, FA Cup and League Cup having won Every match and still lose money?! :rolleyes: )

[Lisbon67Seville03]

does anyone remember the SWOS for PC with the scratchy voiced guy doing commentary and all he would ever do was shout "REFEREE!" man, good times. i remember how good man utd were in SWOS for amiga tho, i would always crush my dad as them.

[cheezy]

i still own SWOS on PC and play it quite often (at work :D)

it's a heck of a game

[Nifty1Pound50]

SWOS is indeed a brilliant game. Probably better than Championship Manager, if you take into account when it came out etc.

The reason PES will never be so big database-wise, is because it's a console game. CD's are limited. On the PC it's doable because there's all this extraction and zipping up business, and a PC has all this memory where you install to, and it has RAM for file-swapping, etc.

PS2's don't do all of this on such a great scale. PES2 (and probably the sequels to it) all do what they're supposed to do - let you play football. The fact is, the perfect football game would be a cross between CM (Championship Manager) and PES2. The fact that the level of detail from each could not be taken makes this impossible.

If only it were though...

(agreed about the ability to edit and ADD - as opposed to replacing - data)

[MaX_NormaL]

They could make that game if they put it onto DVD.;)

[Mumpleaser]

Or maybe make use of the much talked about HDD (hard drive) that should be released for the PS2 aroung the same time as PES3. It's all a matter of storage;)

PES2 is on DVD!!!!!!!

[Zygalski]

Hang on, isn't CM4 on PS2 as well?

[MaX_NormaL]

Duh! Forgot PES series was on DVD, that's what happens after buying Winning Eleven, never been back since...:o

[rebusrahman]

I reckon the HDD won't see the light of day in the UK. And I don't think PES3 would only utilise it in tandem with downloads... Can we pls pls pls pls pls have online PES. Imagine controlling 1 player only in a team of 9 other human players (who would want to be a keeper???) and playing against another human side. Cool! And if you didn't want that then just 1 on 1 in a massive league system. Must...sit...down...too...exci ted!

[Zygalski]

I played in a 3v3 match recently and it feels like you don't get enough of the ball. 2v2 is good but more makes it less fun.

[Mumpleaser]

Yeah you're right. I think that it even gets a little confusing with 2v2! All those different coloured arrows!

Or am I just being a spanner?

[Gooner_Harmer]

Originally posted by cheezy
i don't know if anyone remembers SWOS, aka Sensible World Of Soccer? although the graphics sucked big time (i'm talking a '95 amiga game based on a '93 engine) the fast paced but still very realistic gameplay was really fun. but what made the game really great was the humongous database with +20.000 players from all possible clubs & leagues all around the world (mostly europe though), from iceland to albania, AND the possibility to be both manager of your team (buying and selling players) and actually playing ball yourself!!!

what i'm trying to say is this:

what PES/WE needs to become the greatest computer game of all time is not a new load of petty details like shirts getting dirtier over a game or fancier bench graphics, but this: A COMBINATION OF CLUB MANAGEMENT OPTIONS AND PES GAMEPLAY + A HUGE CLUB/PLAYER DATABASE !!!

the fun of taking a team from the english 3rd division into the champions league over the years, while building up your club AND actually playing your own games is really tremendous...

you don't need a management system as complex as e.g. championship manager, but a decent slightly simplified engine that allows you to buy and sell players from clubs all over the world and to get your budget going

so here is a list of some suggestions for my dream version of PES:

1. improved database with entire leagues & teams (if the licenses are too expensive, use fake names that can be edited) and more national squads. also the lower divisions of the major leagues (england, spain, italy, germany, france...) should be playable! a good search engine would come in handy when you're dealing with a large player database and looking for a good transfer

2. improved editor with the possibility of creating new players, teams and possibility to design new leagues

3. enhanced management options such as buying/selling players, stadium improvement, youth squad training, sponsoring, scouting...

4. new 'interactive' stadium graphics that show the stadium you have built yourself, with visual attendance (eg pre season friendly with almost empty stands and top league matches at full capacity)

5. possibility to get sacked as a player/manager and/or change teams during the game (eg job offers when you're playing good, warnings from the chairman when you're making a mess of it)

...

there are plenty more ideas where this came from, but i'll give it a rest here :)

is there any chance someone at KCET could be reading this???

keep up the great work!!!



...forgive me, i had to get this off my chest

If you want a managing game play CM4, if you want to play pure football play PES2. If you want a mix then make it yourself, because the game does not have the time nor capacity/capabilities to do both.

[Zygalski]

What if someone made a game to mix the two?
I think that would be quite cool.
(I'm more into playing though)

[Lisbon67Seville03]

are they ever planning on remaking SWOS? i mean, surely it would be a goldmine with us, all we do is talk about the good ole days of SWOS...sounds like a good idea actually. Zygalski, youve got good ideas, what do you think?

[Nifty1Pound50]

I'll let you all in on a little secret. I know someone who's producing a game called The Complete Football Game (TCFG). It's basically every league in the world, going down to the lowest levels (bigger database than both SWOS and CM4), with playing incorporated. He's in the gathering information stage at the moment, and it's all going smoothly. Any help from anyone would be appreciated, check his website out (link at end of post). The ability to play is going to be added last, but as far as I know it's a 3D engine, and it's all very good. :D

The Complete Football Game (http://www34.brinkster.com/frycrayola)

All and any help is greatly appreciated, as low as you can go with information in any division is superb. The point is, he's a one-man creation team, and so help from others with research is actually very helpful. Cheers you lot.

[Zygalski]

Lisbon, someone could hack SWOS and update it for the modern season and update clubs,leagues and players etc.
I remember playing Beckham in the England team even though he only had 2.5 stars, unlike the rest of the team on 4+.
That's the only idea I have for playing that now that would make sense. But it's dodgy so I won't mention it again.

Nifty's mate could have a good idea for a game.
As long as the playing side of it is good, it could be amazing.
People who know about leagues should try to help out.
(The end season would probably take a week to compute on a fast PC though!)

[Nifty1Pound50]

Well, he's very up-to-scratch with PC's, and the whole layout will be fairly simple as far as I know. Running speeds won't be lightning, due to the vast amount of information - this game has virtually all of CM's features, plus the ability to play (I forget what 3D-engine he's basing the playing element of the game on) - but it shouldn't be tragic.

Indeed, I believe everyone has the ability to contribute something towards research - as obvious as it may be - the more people who confirm particular information, the more reliable it is.

And what's stopping people doing a bit of actual research and finding some stuff out? I myself found out loads about lower-league and regional football in, of all places, Australia. It's this sort of effort that could make this game a cracker. The game will be free when released as well, and he's hoping it will be better than both CM4 and SWOS, by a street.

[Zygalski]

Doing research on something you know nothing about is different from someone actually there (eg Australia) who knows the history as important factors can be missed out.

Is he using the current CM4 data to start with?
How many leagues and countries are planned?

[Nifty1Pound50]

If you visit the website, and go the research bit, you'll see this is genuinely a huge project.

He's not using the CM4 as a base at all - he's doing research (with the help of everyone else) on each FIFA affiliated country in the world - some 200-odd. He's going as low down each country's league system as is accurately possible. Poland, for example, I've found, has 9 Divisions of football - all of these will be included in the game.

I think he's using the RSSSF website as a base for league information, it's simply a wealth of a resource.

[rebusrahman]

Sounds interesting for sure but unless he gets a lot (and I mean a lot) of help in research then it will never be up to date enough because of the amt of info he is trying to incorporate. Now if the game was online and backed up by a dynamic database which fed into the game.... I would be wetting myself. That's why PES3 has to have ONLINE FEATURES!!!!! I'm not mad....I'm not! Even if it's just for official Konami patches and downloads....pls pls pls pls pls pls and pls

[Nifty1Pound50]

When you say a "dynamic database" do you mean transfers/players getting better/worse? Because that's all going to be in.

Whether the game will go online remains to be seen.

[Lisbon67Seville03]

an online game would either be a really good idea where people care about it, or it could just as equally be a bad idea as many people might like the time to actually do a tournament or something with people on the other side of the world. its not that its a bad idea, now that i think about it, its just there could be bad reactions