View Full Version : Season 3 NEW Transfer Rules Discussion
Scarface
20-03-2006, 23:56
There will be changes made to the transfer system for the end of the season. This thread will be used so managers can have their say about the new transfer policies and to make any necessary changes.
This will be re-opened in the very near future.
Watch this space.
Scarface
17-04-2006, 20:40
OK, I still haven't got round to discussing in enough detail with HP, but I might aswell open this up now so we can get other FL managers views on it. We both touched on it a while back and agreed that there needs to be significant changes to the transfer system. I'd like to make it clear that these changes will NOT be finalised until the end of the season.
As we all received £100m to begin with, and got a huge amount of prize winnings last year, it's understandable that player values have gone through the roof, but it's become quite ridiculous now. Having to spend over £100m to sign a top player is not only completely unrealistic, but making the whole transfer system a joke in mine and several other managers opinion. No-one in particular is to blame for this, most of us have had to change the way we transfer players as managers expectations have changed.
To put an end to this, there are many systems we could use, but the one we were most keen on, is having all players receving a transfer value.
ie Ambrosini 4m, Llandreau 6m, Toure 15m, Gerrard 30m, Kaka 40m etc.
You would not be forced to sell if someone offered 15m for Toure, for example, but any deals that offered a lot more than that (ie Manager A bids £30m for Toure would be cancelled.) Likewise, you wouldn't have to bid 15m, you could bid slightly more or slightly less. Similarly, for trade deals, you'd have to decide how much money is used in the trade, depending on the included players value (ie Player A is 8m, Player B is 16m, player A could be transfereed with between 5-10m going the other way). We'd have to come up with a rule of how much higher and lower you could bid to their value.
Player values would have to be carefully judged by HP or myself, but we'd try to do this as fairly as possible and without bias, and we would use our knowledge of their value currently rather than our own opinion of how good they are. The player values woud be regularly updated to make sure they are as accurate as possible.
Obviously, with the values of players being considerably lower, we'd all have to take a deduction in our transfer budget. We talked about resetting everyone's transfer funds to be the same, but this would be rather unfair to those who have built up a large warchest through selling top players and prize winnings. Due to the fact some managers have a huge amount of transfer money, we feel an appropriate measure would be to halve all D1 managers funds (ie if you have 120m now, you'd have £60m at the end of the season), and cut D2 managers funds further.
We hope this would make the whole transferring players a much more enjoyable ordeal and restore some realism in transfer dealings. We'd rather this resembles an Interactive Football Manager game, than a Dreamland league where the likes of Henry and Ronaldinho cost £200m for their big toe.
HP and I still need to discuss this in much more length, so nothing has been set in stone, but i'm opening this up now, as I imagine this will need a lot of discussion before a final decision is made and your opinions need to be listened to.
James. Having read all that, I agree fully with the transfer range of certain players, no one is to blame, but 150m for Kaka like Preki paid just basically opened my eyes to how big the situation is. With inserting those new Transfer rules, mentioning it now was a good idea so we all could get to talk and get to grips with whats going to happen.
The cutting of balances coinsides with the player price range and it really does make sense to me, because if players prices have rapidly dropped then to cut our bugets is just sense, to keep a lid on constant buying & now with cutitng bugets in half, manager will have to spend sensibly.
Im on board to whatever changes are soon made to the FL, it can only make things better as soon as everyones onboard... Lets hope we can get a full agreement from all managers.
Preki-USA
17-04-2006, 23:35
i think a salary cap should be put in place, values are assigned to each player and they can only spend say 50 mil on players
all other money could be used for transfer fees
the only problem is deciding how much each player is worth
martin_cranie
18-04-2006, 00:24
i think a salary cap should be put in place, values are assigned to each player and they can only spend say 50 mil on players
I diagree. I don't want to name names here, but if such a system was in place now then there's no way that you, for instance, would be able to get Kaka and Campbell alongside Toni and Riise etc... Instead I think we should keep the transfer market quite free. I agree totally with the player values and the budget cuts, but imposing a team value limit thingy would be pretty crappy, cutting short the ability to build teams from Div 2 standard to dominant Div 2 standard, to Div 1 standard and so on...
James, when you say 'and cut D2 managers funds further' what does this entail? Bigger reductions for us than D1? I understand that D1 managers would be richer in real life, but I think it would be unfair to limit a D2 managers budget more than D1, when taking into account the proposed new value system and the fact that there are numerous top quality players in D2 sides, there is a good chance that us D2 guys will look to head hunt D1 players, and vice versa, so I think we should undergo the same reduction.
When I think of anything more, I'll bring it up. But in general I totally agree with the outline of the proposals.
Preki-USA
18-04-2006, 00:27
fair enough i suppose, this is too confusing for my little brain :ninja:
i think a salary cap should be put in place, values are assigned to each player and they can only spend say 50 mil on players
all other money could be used for transfer fees
the only problem is deciding how much each player is worth
Whether its me thinking retarded due to tiredness or just a lack of detail but I don't quite grasp your idea of Salary Cap. I can roughly estimate what it would be but I just didn't really understand what you said mate, a bit more detail if your willing ?
For the agreeing on the players fees, I'm certain James and Victor will be very sensible and fair when handing out price tags. As we've all realised the prices are completely pathetic and its almost impossible to buy good players for any fee now. Therefore a change was going to happen, and now thats its been roughly explained understandably, I've an extremely strong feeling that this will work. I'm all up for it, and I'm sure others will be too.
I'm sure James will have a list of player prices ready soon. ;)
Preki-USA
18-04-2006, 01:17
:laugh: I haven't thought it out that much
So how do you get the players excatly?
Why don't we just leave it the way it is?
Variety is the spice of life, Rafa ;)
I don't agree with the fund reduction. I have not sold my players as others, like James for instance, for exhorbitant amounts of cash. The managers who were relegated also got an insane amount of loot when their players were auctioned.
About this price tag. How are you going to deal with bids? When do they stop? How does a manager decide who he will sell to when he puts one of his players on sale? I think the market should remain free. Yes, as crazy as it has become and as much as i have spoken against the deals, i do.
Although, i have great interest in seeing how this would work out i doubt it will be as fair as it is meant to be. I mean, we will have to decide who to sell to instead of being forced or inclined to sell to someone else because of a better bid rather than which manager we like the most.
If this takes place, instead of cutting everyone's budget we could just subtract the difference out of every deal that was made with the old system. This way we don't all have to pay for the mistakes that only a few made.
I agree with Muad on the part that it should be left the way it is
Preki-USA
18-04-2006, 15:06
. This way we don't all have to pay for the mistakes that only a few made.
i don't think I made a mistake, I made a move to improve my team...we're at a disadvantage in D2 to begin with, I needed to make that big move.
Stella Artois
18-04-2006, 15:20
For me the only thing that made this whole FL a waste of time was the fact that if you're a new manager, you're unable to buy anyone of real considerable talent for a decent price. So I'm semi-glad to see you attempting to address this issue.
The problem for me is quite simple: If I had Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o and so on, I'm never going to sell them as I know they are world class. Cogito ergo sum, I'll win everything. How exactly do you address this issue?
martin_cranie
18-04-2006, 15:20
Although, i have great interest in seeing how this would work out i doubt it will be as fair as it is meant to be. I mean, we will have to decide who to sell to instead of being forced or inclined to sell to someone else because of a better bid rather than which manager we like the most.
An interesting point Muad. Of course if you're trading players then no such problem should occur, but otherwise it could easily become a market where certain people only want to sell to certain people so as not to make their direct rivals stronger, for example.
For me the only thing that made this whole FL a waste of time was the fact that if you're a new manager, you're unable to buy anyone of real considerable talent for a decent price. So I'm semi-glad to see you attempting to address this issue.
The problem for me is quite simple: If I had Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o and so on, I'm never going to sell them as I know they are world class. Cogito ergo sum, I'll win everything. How exactly do you address this issue?
A fair point, if one had the 3 players named they would never sell, of course it also depends on that manager's interest of keeping things exciting.
How about some sort of maximum amount of years that a player can be at your club? I haven't exactly thought it out yet, but it's just an idea.
Scarface
18-04-2006, 20:38
I don't agree with the fund reduction. I have not sold my players as others, like James for instance, for exhorbitant amounts of cash
I can only recall ever selling one player for a ridiculously large sum of cash (Martins), most of my money has come from prize winnings, actually.
So how do you get the players excatly?
Exactly the same way as we do now, only difference being we bid realistic amounts.
Why don't we just leave it the way it is?
Because the transfer system is a joke.
Although, i have great interest in seeing how this would work out i doubt it will be as fair as it is meant to be. I mean, we will have to decide who to sell to instead of being forced or inclined to sell to someone else because of a better bid rather than which manager we like the most.
There's no way we can completely remove that problem, but the same problem is found in the footballing world, Chelsea would never like to sell their top players to Arsenal, Barca to Real etc. The same already goes on, with managers selling to their friends, when a better deal could be offered elsewhere. Can't see a way of stopping it, to be honest.
James, when you say 'and cut D2 managers funds further' what does this entail? Bigger reductions for us than D1? I understand that D1 managers would be richer in real life, but I think it would be unfair to limit a D2 managers budget more than D1, when taking into account the proposed new value system and the fact that there are numerous top quality players in D2 sides, there is a good chance that us D2 guys will look to head hunt D1 players, and vice versa, so I think we should undergo the same reduction.
I believe D2 managers should not be as rich as D1 managers. Last year, I persuaded Victor to give D2 managers more in prize winnings, to allow them to re-build and give them a chance to sign top players, as D1 had a big advantage at getting first pick at players. With this new system, I feel D2 managers should face further cuts, mainly because we're aiming for realism here, and it wouldn't be realistic for D1 managers to be regularly outbidded by D2 managers. Everyone in Division 2 would be in the same boat, and the richest D2 managers would remain the richest, and have an increased chance of signing the players they like. I understand Division 2 managers want the chance to sign the top players, but that's one of the rewards of promotion.
i don't think I made a mistake, I made a move to improve my team...we're at a disadvantage in D2 to begin with, I needed to make that big move.
I said mistake Dr. Evil style. ;)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8190/drevil4qg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I for one am cool with the new rules as long as they are realistic and we include some sort of large laser in the process. :D
Keyser Soze
18-04-2006, 22:47
I for one am cool with the new rules as long as they are realistic and we include some sort of large laser in the process. :D
Or ill-tempered sea bass?
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8190/drevil4qg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
(Sorry, couldn't be arsed finding and uploading a fresh Dr.Evil picture, had to yoink yours from the quote). :blush:
Preki-USA
18-04-2006, 23:15
haha, im so glad to be a part of this fantasy league with such mature individuals :laugh:
Highway Penguin
10-05-2006, 01:48
I haven't got an answer from James just yet on this matter, but I'll post it anyways. As many of you know we've had a few managers come in this season which have made some interesting transfer decisions, to fix this I'd like to impliment a third division. It would not consist of all the same rules as the first and second division, but it would give me and James a better idea of who would be compitent in the higher divisions. The league would consist of 6 teams. Each team would have a squad no larger than 15 players and no less than 11, due to the shortage of players. Squad rotation would not be as demanding, but I'm dabbling with the idea of a single player rotation each week.
There would not be any promotion or relegation to/from the league either. When a spot becomes vacant in either division a manager from this division would be promoted depending on how well they are doing.
By the way, I've all ready come up with more than 60 players who can be picked up, so there are obviously still players out there.
I haven't got an answer from James just yet on this matter, but I'll post it anyways. As many of you know we've had a few managers come in this season which have made some interesting transfer decisions, to fix this I'd like to impliment a third division. It would not consist of all the same rules as the first and second division, but it would give me and James a better idea of who would be compitent in the higher divisions. The league would consist of 6 teams. Each team would have a squad no larger than 15 players and no less than 11, due to the shortage of players. Squad rotation would not be as demanding, but I'm dabbling with the idea of a single player rotation each week.
There would not be any promotion or relegation to/from the league either. When a spot becomes vacant in either division a manager from this division would be promoted depending on how well they are doing.
By the way, I've all ready come up with more than 60 players who can be picked up, so there are obviously still players out there.
Im on board for this. As Ive said to you on MSN about it, victor It would come in very useful to picking suitable managers and giving them a rough team to work with will give both James and yourself a better look at some interested managers.
martin_cranie
10-05-2006, 02:18
I haven't got an answer from James just yet on this matter, but I'll post it anyways. As many of you know we've had a few managers come in this season which have made some interesting transfer decisions, to fix this I'd like to impliment a third division. It would not consist of all the same rules as the first and second division, but it would give me and James a better idea of who would be compitent in the higher divisions. The league would consist of 6 teams. Each team would have a squad no larger than 15 players and no less than 11, due to the shortage of players. Squad rotation would not be as demanding, but I'm dabbling with the idea of a single player rotation each week.
There would not be any promotion or relegation to/from the league either. When a spot becomes vacant in either division a manager from this division would be promoted depending on how well they are doing.
By the way, I've all ready come up with more than 60 players who can be picked up, so there are obviously still players out there.
Sounds like a good idea but I have one question; If all the free agents are picked up by these D3 teams then how exactly do the 'real' managers, i.e. D1 & D2, pick up FA's?
Sounds like a good idea but I have one question; If all the free agents are picked up by these D3 teams then how exactly do the 'real' managers, i.e. D1 & D2, pick up FA's?
Maybe by 'borrowing' them from the little guy? ;)
Yeah, sound very interesting...great idea HP
Highway Penguin
10-05-2006, 02:48
Sounds like a good idea but I have one question; If all the free agents are picked up by these D3 teams then how exactly do the 'real' managers, i.e. D1 & D2, pick up FA's?
You still want more Free Agents? :shocking:
Well I think that it will be similar to when we incorperated D2, a lot of the chances of picking up any FA you wanted went down. This may make the league more competitive, to a certain extent. Do you have any ideas for it though, Rich?
I was also contemplating allowing players who retire this year to play in this league, but for 1 season only.
martin_cranie
10-05-2006, 03:54
You still want more Free Agents? :shocking:
Well I think that it will be similar to when we incorperated D2, a lot of the chances of picking up any FA you wanted went down. This may make the league more competitive, to a certain extent. Do you have any ideas for it though, Rich?
I was also contemplating allowing players who retire this year to play in this league, but for 1 season only.
haha, I'm not looking for any right now mate. Things go in cycles though; one minute a player isn't wanted, or known about, then all of a sudden he's hot property. If D3 is seperate and doesn't link to D2 through promotion, then I think it'd be wrong to hold back potentially great FA's from the D1 & D2 managers.
I think any D3 player should be available to D1 & D2 teams, and then the players that we kick out to make room for them can go to D3 teams that have lost players. That should work I guess.
The plan sounds really good though. I think it'd be a great warm up for the Newbie's so they'll learn not to throw away good players and what not. The plan for retired players sounds good, as the likes of Bergkamp, Shearer and Zidane will add to the numbers and quality nicely.
I would also like to make a proposition of my own regarding the league. I think that by the start of next season there should be a rule in place that prevents a manager from owning more the 25/26 players. I can totally understand a manager wanting to build up a good squad full of players that he likes, some of which may be too young to be useful to his team now BUT I think when we have a situation like now when James owns 30 players it's a little unfair.
Although it's very good of him to loan players out to clubs, which he is very willing to do for a good price, I think such a policy prevents other clubs from building truely strong teams in the long term. No team can rely on loan signings to give them continued and progressive success. It'd be much fairer if teams actually had a chance to own such players rather than have them on loan one season and then lose them the next as they go on loan somewhere else.
Also there would be more FA's and spare players to fill D3.
Sorry for the waffle Vic!
Highway Penguin
10-05-2006, 05:08
No trouble, some brilliant ideas in there. Maybe we can evolve your idea to say that any D1/D2 could draft players from any D3 team. For instance, during the transfer windows, pools could be held where only D3 players would auctioned off. I don't see any other fair way to do it, really. I was also thinking that the bottom 2 teams from D2 could trade players around from D3 teams just to improve their chances of doing better.
Mhm, I see what you mean. I think I've got 6 or so out on loan. :blush: But anyways, yeah, a squad totalling 26 or so would definately open up chances for smaller teams. I'll keep thinking about it, but it'll likely happen. :)
What do you think about the squad size for D3? I was thinking a 15 player max...?
Rangers_Fureva
10-05-2006, 11:09
Promotion, are you talking about there won't be any promotion from D1/D2 or D2/D3?
I think that for managers to manage a team consisting of only players unpicked at this moment (or even after D1 and D2 sign their free agents) would be quite difficult. Many will not be over familiar with those players and will thus judge them rather differently. So I'll suggest that the D3 managers be able to sign current free agents and also the future releases of D1 and D2 teams during the next transfer window, but D1 and D2 teams will have the opportunity to sign the players discussed above as well (means possible to have two same players in D1/D2 and D3 since anyway, they will be taking over a D1 or D2 team which have better players).
D3 teams should begin with 15 free picks (free agents) then start their transfers and squad rotation, and end with 18 players maximum. There should be a limit on their maximum number of loan signings.
Also, when should this start? I'll prefer it during the opening of the next transfer window, as there wouldn't be too many managers leaving during the season, and the transfer activities can be held simultaneously.
I haven't got an answer from James just yet on this matter, but I'll post it anyways. As many of you know we've had a few managers come in this season which have made some interesting transfer decisions, to fix this I'd like to impliment a third division. It would not consist of all the same rules as the first and second division, but it would give me and James a better idea of who would be compitent in the higher divisions. The league would consist of 6 teams. Each team would have a squad no larger than 15 players and no less than 11, due to the shortage of players. Squad rotation would not be as demanding, but I'm dabbling with the idea of a single player rotation each week.
There would not be any promotion or relegation to/from the league either. When a spot becomes vacant in either division a manager from this division would be promoted depending on how well they are doing.
By the way, I've all ready come up with more than 60 players who can be picked up, so there are obviously still players out there.
Excellent idea. I even think this could be started right now. Just make a new thread saying 6 FL teams are availible and it will be filled i no time. :w00t
-Jamster-
10-05-2006, 16:09
I think i gave that idea to James a few months ago. :shocking:
But a great idea. :w00t:
Highway Penguin
10-05-2006, 22:34
Promotion, are you talking about there won't be any promotion from D1/D2 or D2/D3?
There will still be promotion from D1 to D2, but the teams in D3 won't be promoted to D2 and no D2 team will be relegated to D3.
I think that for managers to manage a team consisting of only players unpicked at this moment (or even after D1 and D2 sign their free agents) would be quite difficult. Many will not be over familiar with those players and will thus judge them rather differently. So I'll suggest that the D3 managers be able to sign current free agents and also the future releases of D1 and D2 teams during the next transfer window, but D1 and D2 teams will have the opportunity to sign the players discussed above as well (means possible to have two same players in D1/D2 and D3 since anyway, they will be taking over a D1 or D2 team which have better players).
D3 teams should begin with 15 free picks (free agents) then start their transfers and squad rotation, and end with 18 players maximum. There should be a limit on their maximum number of loan signings.
Also, when should this start? I'll prefer it during the opening of the next transfer window, as there wouldn't be too many managers leaving during the season, and the transfer activities can be held simultaneously.
Huh? That's what I said Eugene. D3 managers will pick players that aren't picked right now, obviously they are Free Agents. :tongue: I don't want 2 players in the same league as it sort of defeats the purpose of the league.
D3 will get to pick whoever they want first, followed by D1/D2.
I'll start recruiting as soon as I get the two current openings filled. Then start the draft process and hopefully they'll be set for the opening of the next window. :)
But think a little.....wich players they can pick? I know that exist a lot of players, but the best and good players are picked. But I still think that is a great idea create a new division, but will be very difficult create a team of
11-15 players for the new managers.
Highway Penguin
10-05-2006, 22:55
Not necessarily. I've all ready made 8 teams of 11. They aren't players who are as well known as say Henry or Ronaldinho, but they are good players. La Liga, Serie A, and EPL have got loads of unpicked players still. There are also still diamonds in Eredivisie or Bundesliga.
D1/D2 also have players to loan out, there is not a shortage of good players by any stretch of the imagination. It will also be a challenge to do well or maintain a good team in this division giving us a better idea of who would be a good manager. :)
Not necessarily. I've all ready made 8 teams of 11. They aren't players who are as well known as say Henry or Ronaldinho, but they are good players. La Liga, Serie A, and EPL have got loads of unpicked players still. There are also still diamonds in Eredivisie or Bundesliga.
D1/D2 also have players to loan out, there is not a shortage of good players by any stretch of the imagination. It will also be a challenge to do well or maintain a good team in this division giving us a better idea of who would be a good manager. :)
Picking players will be difficult, but even I can come up with a bunch of good talented players particularly from Ligue 1. There are some still out there. ;)
I do like this idea though very much, it should also give a mega boost to the FL.
Highway Penguin
11-05-2006, 02:06
All right, the idea appears to be a hit. I'll be starting a new thread regarding the 3rd division as soon as I've got the 2 teams in the 1st division sorted out.
I will most likely take a team as well. :happy:
Why should you guys take teams?
Let those who hasn't got any take them instead.
Why should you guys take teams?
Let those who hasn't got any take them instead.
Just to let you know Poffe, I was kidding around. :rolleyes:
Rangers_Fureva
11-05-2006, 12:07
There will still be promotion from D1 to D2, but the teams in D3 won't be promoted to D2 and no D2 team will be relegated to D3.
Quality, all sounds good to me then.:cool:
I will most likely take a team as well. :happy:
Me too ;)
Scarface
21-05-2006, 14:08
As managers like to start negotiating for players so long before the window opens, Victor and I will finalise everything and announce the new transfer rules soon.
Preki-USA
28-05-2006, 16:33
the new rules are not an improvement at all.
all that was needed was a reduction of funds, but there will be virtually no trading now with this new value system in place, it's silly because certain people value certain players differently. I could go on and on about how this needs to be an open market. If the funds were reduced but we could still price our players as we wish then everything would run smoothly. This new value system is a bad idea.
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