Who better? Compare Arsenal and Man Utd players????

[Henry_IS_God]

howard or lehnmann??? howard!!!!!
Cole or O'Shea close but Cole!!!!!
Campbell or Rio Campbell!!!!!!
Toure or Silvestre???? very close cant say!
G.Neville or Lauren probs Nev
Pires or Giggs toooo close but Giggs just about!
Vieira or Keane??? Vieira
Ljungberg or Ronaldo??? ljungnerg
Gilberto or Scholes??? Scholes definatly
Henry or Nistlerooy?? Tough one but personnaly Henry
Bergkamp or Forlan??? Bergkamps history and experience makes him better! forlan is rele improving tho!

[speo5]

When you couldnt decide between Toure and Silvestre i would say Silvestre, Because he is better in defence and attack.

[Definitely Maybe]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

G. Neville/Lauren - Lauren
Ferdinand/Campbell - Campbell
Toure/Silvestre - Silvestre
Cole/O'Shea - O'Shea

Ljungberg/Ronaldo - Ljungberg
Vieira/Keane - Vieira
Gilberto/Butt - Butt
Pires/Giggs - Pires

Scholes/Bergkamp - Scholes
Henry/van Nistlerooy - Henry

Arsenal - 7
Man United - 4

[Harry-Kewell]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

Cole/Silvestre - Silvestre
Campbell/Ferdinand - Campbell
Brown/Toure - Brown
Lauren/Neville - Lauren

Pires/Giggs - Giggs
Vieira/Keane - Vieira
Gilberto/Scholes - Scholes
Ljunberg/Ronaldo - Ljunberg

Henry/Van Nistelrooy - Henry
Bergkamp/Solskjaer - Solskjaer

Gooners 5 - Manure 6

[Giggsy11]

Howard or Lehmann – Howard but only just!!
Silvestre or A. Cole – Silvestre but again only just
G.Neville or Lauren – G.Neville
Ferdinand or Campbell – Campbell
Brown or Keown – Keown
Giggs or Pires – Giggs
Ronaldo or Ljunberg – Ljunberg
Keane or Viera – Keane
Scholes or Gilberto – Scholes
Van Nistelrooy or Henry – Van the Man!!!
Forlan or Bergkamp - Bergkamp

Man Utd 7 Arsenal 4

[jag87]

Howard or Lehmann – Howard
Silvestre or A. Cole – Silvestre more consistent
G.Neville or Lauren – G.Neville
Ferdinand or Campbell – Ferdinand stronger with more pace
Brown or Keown – Keown
Giggs or Pires – Giggs
Ronaldo or Ljunberg – Ljunberg
Keane or Viera – Keane
Scholes or Gilberto – Scholes
Van Nistelrooy or Henry – One and Only RUUD
Forlan or Bergkamp - Forlan but by 0.000001%

[Marshy]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

G. Neville/Lauren - Neville
Ferdinand/Campbell - Campbell
Toure/Silvestre - Silvestre
Cole/O'Shea - O'Shea

Ljungberg/Ronaldo - Ljungberg
Vieira/Keane - Keane
Gilberto/Butt - Butt
Pires/Giggs - Pires

Scholes/Bergkamp - Scholes
Henry/van Nistlerooy - Van Nistlerooy


How can anyone say vieira is better then keane. NO CHANCE!!!

[f3n1xtx]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

G. Neville/Lauren - Neville
Ferdinand/Campbell - Campbell
Toure/Silvestre - Silvestre
Cole/O'Shea - Cole

Ljungberg/Ronaldo - Ljungberg
Vieira/Keane - Vieira
Gilberto/Scholes- Scholes
Pires/Giggs - Giggs

Forlan/Bergkamp - Bergkamp
Henry/van Nistlerooy - Henry

Arsenal 6
Man Utd 5

[Henry_IS_God]

henry as a lot more class than diving ruud and vieira is better than keane (only just) ive had both of them (roy and patrick) for my bbc dream team!

[Giggsy11]

what did i tell ya!!!

van nistelrooy 2 goals!!
http://forum.pesinsight.com/showthread.php?t=3855&page=1&pp=15

:D :D :D

[Kharmel]

Impossible to discuss things rationally with Man U fans. Their biased attitudes get into the way...

When they remember the amount of money they have spent compared to Arsenal. then they will know who truly is the better team.

[Giggsy11]

Impossible to discuss things rationally with Man U fans. Their biased attitudes get into the way...

When they remember the amount of money they have spent compared to Arsenal. then they will know who truly is the better team.

er

Man Utd HAVE more money ,
Man Utd SPEND more money
and Man Utd are champions of England

so it looks like all that spending has done good.
were as Arsenal are no were near as succesfull!!!

[Henry_IS_God]

is two goals last nite typified ruud, stevie wonder could of scored them! arsenal spent soooo little last and this season and come soooo close and still won silver wear by BEATING man utd (fa cup) on their way!
arsenal no were near successful???? dont fink so m8! ur wrong!
80m+ on three players IMAO!!!!!!!!!

[Henry_IS_God]

come on giggsy cant say ruud as any class after scoring them 2 goals ne1 could of scored them!

[Giggsy11]

answer me this!!!

how many prems have man utd won compared toi arsenal?

who always gets to at least the champions league Q.Finals.

who has a better reputation.

and strange how u didn't mention Man Utds 2-0 win over arsenal in the prem and the 2-2 draw at highbury!!!

[Giggsy11]

come on giggsy cant say ruud as any class after scoring them 2 goals ne1 could of scored them!

he still had to try for the second.

hes a striker hes meant to get tap-ins.
leave the long shots to scholes

[Kharmel]

You must probably live in East Anglia, yet support Man Yoo. :rolleyes:

Giggsy11, face it, your team is not as impressive as you think. Fergie has to be quite honest made many ‘duff’ buys. Hell, he has made expensive buys that have amounted to nothing.

Wenger, on the other hand, with pretty limited resources has made some tremendous buys. When you learn the facts, then, discuss who is better. If I managed a team with almost unlimited resources, I would find it easy. Who wouldn’t? When the Man Yoo fans, realise the unbelievable bias that they receive both through refs and commentators, it only inflames their opinions of their club.

I stick by my opinion, that nearly all Manchester United fans are morons. They seem not to possess a brain. This will obviously lead to a lack of intelligent thinking. This is proved in this thread

[asher b]

you cant really compare van nistelrooy and henry cos they are different types of forward, but if they were in the same team they would be unstoppable!! henrys pace and van nistelrooys hold up play. 50-60 goals a season easily.

[Giggsy11]

he obviously hasn't made amazing buys cos arsenal are still the prems 2nd team.

man u have all the prem titles.

[Kharmel]

Try Vieria for 3.5 million. Henry for 10.5million. Campbell for free.

How many Man U players have done as well as these three and cost so little?

As for Henry, if he played for United, where they depend on one striker, much like us, he would score 50 goals a season.

[mutu]

Try Vieria for 3.5 million. Henry for 10.5million. Campbell for free

Dont forget anelka ;)
£20 profit was it?

But then Wengers the better manager is all that shows (i think he is, screw ferguson)

When doing the whos better list normally man u pip it because arsenals back 5 let them down

Shame realleh, used to have one of the best around :(

imo theyll win the prem


BTW nice thread, always going to cause debate and arguements - exactly the thing we look for in a forum :p

Also i laughed at your biased list in the first post though

Ashley cole better then o'shea? o'sheas 10x the defender cole is - he couldnt tackle my nephew
Hed either run out of position and leave a clean run on goal or break his legs with a ridiculous challenge :o

Also toure or silvestre too close to say? loooool youre deluded ;)

[Darth Daft]

Choose Arsenal. Choose Overbearing Arrogance. Choose Systematic Dirty Play And Calling It "competitiveness". Choose The Most Staged, Contrived, Up-your-own-arses Goal Celebrations Ever Witnessed. Choose Having The Ugliest Man On Earth As Your Centre-back And The Second Ugliest As Your Manager. Choose Winning Two Championships In Eleven Seasons And Acting Like You've Won Seven In Nine. Choose Drawing 99% Of Your Fanbase From The Ranks Of The Suburban English Middle Classes. Choose Patrick Vieira Whinging About Having To Play Too Much Football Even Though He Gets Six Games' Rest Every Season Due To Suspensions. Choose Paying £9 Million For Francis Jeffers. Choose Being "the Bank Of England Club". Choose Dennis Bergkamp And His Carefully-timed Elbows Into The Side Of The Head. Choose Deliberately Disrespecting And Belittling The Other Team By Playing Keepy-uppy In Their Half With A Few Minutes To Go. Choose Forcing Merchandise Vendors Out Of Business Because They Might Deprive You Of A Couple Of Hundred Quid On Match Days. Choose Fancying Yourselves As Better Than Real Madrid, Then Having Auxerre Run Rings Around You At Home. Choose Sol Campbell Continually Tripping Over Himself. Choose Turning The Sports Section Of The Observer Into A Gunners Fanzine.


Choose Getting Away With Light Or Delayed Punishments At Fa Disciplinary Hearings Because You've Had Every Possible String Pulled By David Dein. Choose A Persecution Complex Nonetheless And Never Shut Up About It. Choose Gamesmanship. Choose Embarrassing Yourselves In A Renault "va-va-voom" Ad And Then Disgracing Yourselves Further At The World Cup Finals. Choose David Seaman And His Public Mid-life Crisis. Choose Watching An Opponent Miss A Last-minute Penalty Against You, Then Running After Him And Jeering Him. Choose George Graham Grinding His Way To The Dullest Championship Win Of All Time. Choose Stepping Forward In A Four-man Line With Your Right Hands All Raised In The Air, Then Screaming Abuse At The Linesman When He Has The Audacity To Keep His Flag Down. Choose To See Yourselves As One Of The Giants Of Continental Football When You've Never Even Reached A European Cup Semi-final In Your Entire History.


Choose Picking Ray Parlour For Over A Decade. Choose Having The Quietest Stadium In The World As Your Home Ground, And Then Having The Cheek To Slag Man Utd About Their Fans. Choose Having Nick Hornby As The Mouthpiece Of Your Supporters. Choose Making Umpteen Lists Of Reasons Why Arsenal Are So Great, And Then Admitting You Didn't Bother Following Them For A Few Years In The 1980s When They Were Getting Sh!te Results. Choose Tony Adams Coming Out With His Usual Dreary "i Am A Recovering Addict" Spiel Every Time A Premiership Footballer Blots His Copy-book. Choose Pretending That Five Or Six Years Of Playing In A Watchable Fashion Makes Up For Inflicting Over A Century Of Ultra-defensive Dogsh!t On English Football Watchers. Choose Igor Stepanovs, Nelson Vivas, Kanu, Pascal Cygan, Davor Suker, Gilles Grimandi, David Grondin, Remi Garde, Aba Diawara, Junichi Inamoto, Jeremie Aliadiere, Oleg Luzhny, Luis Boa Morte, Richard Wright, Stefan Malz, Christopher Wreh, And All The Other Turkeys That Nobody Ever Mentions When Creaming Themselves About How Great Wenger Is In The Transfer Market. Choose 58 Red Cards In Seven Years. Choose Lying To The Media That You Didn't See A Single One Of The Incidents That Caused All These Red Cards. Choose Being A Bunch Of Smug, Self-regarding Wnkrs Who Are Well On Their Way To Being Even More Unpopular Than Man U In Less Than Half The Time. Choose Arsenal.

[Kharmel]

Hmm... Some rather pathetic points being made by a Man U fan. (WHO ELSE!)

Try not to hit the Caps Lock button everytime you type. This only adds to the belief of UTD's fans stupidness.

[Darth Daft]

Shouldnt you be watching your team as they crash out of europe? , again? :p

[Kharmel]

Do you live in East Anglia by any chance?

[Darth Daft]

heh just watched the arsenal players celebrating going into the Uefa cup, silly n00bs.

[jag87]

Arsenal will do a newcastle! Last season, Newcastle lost their opening 3 games, then go through. Arsenal have won! Jammy cuntz!

[Kharmel]

We won one nil. As I see it we still have a chance of going through. Maybe Man U can get another easy game next round, huh?

[Darth Daft]

Heh, yeah they scraped through, wonder what Comical Wenger will make of that classy display by the arse. "Bring on Real Madrid" the silly nublett will probably proclaim.

[Giggsy11]

your all missing the point.

dosen't matter how much money utd spend cos their the richest club in the world.

and ppl say arsenal have spent hardly anything on their best players.that is why their the prems 2nd team!!!!!!!

man utd have spent more and are the best team in england!!!!

[adams9802]

[But to be fair, after 98 we sold some good players and during the 2000-01 we sold three major starters, Overmars, Petit (which haven't replaced) and Anelka. I not trying to make excuses for not winning more EPl titles butwe did have to re-buy,re-train them players into Wenger's style. And in all fairness I think he's done a damn good job. Let's see Fergie sell Ruud, Giggs and Scholesy and see how he does. But Man U do have tons more money and that is the difference, like it or not.

[Giggsy11]

and their is a reason man utd have more money!!!!

we have earned it.

[methical]

Lehmann or Howard - Lehmann

Lauren or Neville - Lauren
Campbell or Ferdinand - Campbell
Toure or Silvestre - Toure
Cole or O'Shea - Cole

Ljungberg or Ronaldo - Ljungberg
Vieira or Keane - Vieira
Gilberto or Scholes - Scholes
Pires or Giggs - Pires

Henry or Van Nistelrooy - Henry of course
Bergkamp or Forlan (aka the worst striker in the world) - Bergkamp

arsenal 10
Man utd 1
oh my god that hurts.

[methical]

arsenal are just too good for anyone. we bought people who noone has ever heard of or rated and turned them into world class players.
look at anelka. bought for half a million and sold for 23million 2 years later. look at overmars, petit, vieira, pires, henry, toure, ljungberg. man utd dont even come close to that without spending stupid amounts of money on players that aren't that good

[Henry_IS_God]

well said methical! and thanx for sticking to the post, kharmel..... uve made me laff in a good way ur truely right!!!!!!

bring on inter!!!!!
jag87 i dunno how u can call arsenal jammy cuntz, wen man utd specialize in late winners plus we deserved it ne way!

giggsy11 i dont call one win against (2-0) us an overall season success as u made out altho its good to see sum competition!!!!!

[Giggsy11]

for god sake!!!

you all keep saying that arsenal have bought un heard of players and made em world class!!!!

but arsenal are STILL the prems 2nd team!!!!!
so that must mean that man utds buys have been better cos we are the best team in england!!!!

[f3n1xtx]

but hats off to wenger for buying so cheaping and selling them so expensive, and maturing them to world class players. but utd still ahead cause of their experience of being so consistent in all compy.

[Kharmel]

Giggsy11, your a fool. That is evident.

When you wake up take off your Manchester United pants and your Manchester United pyjamas. Take a loot outside, realise that when you talk crap, people will laugh at you. Then come back inside and read the paper, read the facts that are contained in these bits of paper then you may realise that Arsenal are being made to build Doctor's sugeries (sp?), they are being made to spend more on the surrounding area than the stadium itself! Then realise that you have a Jock as a manager. Then you may also notcie that he is a minipulative prat. He is also two-faced and is very cunning in what he says. Then look at Wenger, who can without doubt not quite see incidents. This as well all know is a blatant lie! But, unlike Mr Ferguson, he does not critizise his players pubicly, you will also notice that Mr Wenger is a better coach, a better transfer dealer and overall a nicer bloke.

Your bias lies not with the fact that you are a Man U fan, more the fact that you lack something vital between your eyes to help you make rational decisions.

After you seriously think about what I have said, post your player versus player again. I wonder if ten minutes of thinking you allow you to change your partizan thinking.

[Darth Daft]

arsenal are just too good for anyone. we bought people who noone has ever heard of or rated and turned them into world class players.
look at anelka. bought for half a million and sold for 23million 2 years later. look at overmars, petit, vieira, pires, henry, toure, ljungberg. man utd dont even come close to that without spending stupid amounts of money on players that aren't that good

Arsenal are just too good for anyone? ROFL! what about Ajax, Auxerre, Dynamo Kiev, Man Utd, Locomotiv Moscow, Inter Milan - well pretty much ALL of Europe :D Where is 8 league titles in 11 years? who are the champions? how many times does the name 'Arsenal' appear on the European cup? Got a decent Stadium? How many English players? right now ive got the playground taunts out of the way, time for the serious debate.

"you will also notice that Mr Wenger is a better coach, a better transfer dealer and overall a nicer bloke" err, nope sorry, YOU will notice how most other managers eg O'leary, McClaren, Warnock, McCleish and plenty others are always saying how Fergie is always ringing them up and offering advice - god he was even in regular contact with hoofeyhey when he was ill, wishing him well. Wenger in contrast, is a very private man who doesnt mix or socialise with other managers or even his own players. Both men however, are far nicer than YOU and if you spent more time finding out the 'facts' and less time reading the gutter press and calling everyone brainless idiots then you would have a better understanding of football. Arsenal are a VERY good team, the best team in England in the 98-99 season, but have struggled to get anywhere near that consistency ever since but i think this season that will be down to the lack of money=inadequate squad that will become apparent in the PL as the season goes on as it has in the CL from the off.

[PicturePerfect]

This is ridiculous. You people have turned this interesting thread which could have sparked intelligent debate into a take-turns-in-slating-the-other-team cluster of posts Jesus Christ people, can’t we at least have civilized conversation around here? Mambo excluded, there’s hardly anyone here you can debate with in a proper manner.

Getting back to the topic...

Lehmann/Howard
While Lehmann has the vast experience and great leadership skills, Howard has just been a real class find. I've hardly seen him make a mistake at his time with Man Utd. No doubt, with the likes of Taylor and Cudicini too, the Premiership has some of the world’s best keepers.

Lauren/Neville
In terms of defending, Lauren has still not reached his full capabilities and Neville's a good defender overall. Going forward however, Lauren definitely has more menace and can really pressure opposing defenders.
Campbell/Ferdinand
Tremendous in the air, superb at holding of attackers with his physical presence combined with the ability to perform some devastating tackles gives this one to Campbell easily. Him and Terry will prove to be an awesome combo for England.
Toure/Silvestre
Very, very tough. K-Lo has been nothing short of phenomenal this season, earning two consecutive Arsenal Player of the Month awards. Arsenal fans know about his great abilities but his lack of exposure to the world will give Silvestre this.
Cole/O'Shea
Cole can keep up well with attackers but his lack of physical presence can sometimes be his downfall. Going forward, he is tremendous and many a time he is involved in Arsenal's swooping attacks on the left flank. O'Shea is a great package. Domineering in defence, hard-working and spirited, he proves to be the hit.

Ljungberg/Ronaldo
Too easy, Ljungberg, hands down but Ronaldo is still young and has quite a lot yet to learn.
Vieira/Keane
Vieira is just magnificent and has an influence on Arsenal in very much the same way that Keane does. Keano is getting on a bit now though and is not the player he was...say in '99. Vieira, however, just gets better as the matches go by. No wonder Madrid want him. Cheeky buggers.
Gilberto/Butt
Unfair to put Scholes here as Gilberto is a defensive midfielder, so I've opted for Butt who is just a little way ahead of Gilberto. Not much, mind.
Pires/Giggs
Too close. I really couldn't pick as it would be harsh on the other player. Giggsy is Giggsy and SuperBob is SuperBob.

Henry/Van Nistelrooy
Henry takes this for me. Maybe not as good as finisher as RVN (only marginally) but as good as they come in every other area. Thierry along with another world-class striker at Arsenal (preferably someone with good heading ability) would make an ultimate and potentially unstoppable duo.
Wiltord/Scholes
Unfair to put Dennis here as he's more of a creator now then goal-scorer. I've opted for Wiltord instead who is less of a player then Scholes by quite some way. Has a tendency to score some important goals, however.

PP out.

[Darth Daft]

Im sorry, i find it hard to let all the arsenal bravado go by unquestioned sometimes. :rolleyes: and i also realise that many Utd fans just WILL NOT HAVE IT that any other team can come anywhere near us ever. Which is normally plainly not the case (unless its the anniversary of Sir Matts B'day in the CL final!)

Ive been waiting and waiting to ask you PicturePerfect, whats going on in your avatar?

[Mambo]

This is ridiculous. You people have turned this interesting thread which could have sparked intelligent debate into a take-turns-in-slating-the-other-team cluster of posts Jesus Christ people, can’t we at least have civilized conversation around here? Mambo excluded, there’s hardly anyone here you can debate with in a proper manner.

Getting back to the topic...

Lehmann/Howard
While Lehmann has the vast experience and great leadership skills, Howard has just been a real class find. I've hardly seen him make a mistake at his time with Man Utd. No doubt, with the likes of Taylor and Cudicini too, the Premiership has some of the world’s best keepers.

Lauren/Neville
In terms of defending, Lauren has still not reached his full capabilities and Neville's a good defender overall. Going forward however, Lauren definitely has more menace and can really pressure opposing defenders.
Campbell/Ferdinand
Tremendous in the air, superb at holding of attackers with his physical presence combined with the ability to perform some devastating tackles gives this one to Campbell easily. Him and Terry will prove to be an awesome combo for England.
Toure/Silvestre
Very, very tough. K-Lo has been nothing short of phenomenal this season, earning two consecutive Arsenal Player of the Month awards. Arsenal fans know about his great abilities but his lack of exposure to the world will give Silvestre this.
Cole/O'Shea
Cole can keep up well with attackers but his lack of physical presence can sometimes be his downfall. Going forward, he is tremendous and many a time he is involved in Arsenal's swooping attacks on the left flank. O'Shea is a great package. Domineering in defence, hard-working and spirited, he proves to be the hit.

Ljungberg/Ronaldo
Too easy, Ljungberg, hands down but Ronaldo is still young and has quite a lot yet to learn.
Vieira/Keane
Vieira is just magnificent and has an influence on Arsenal in very much the same way that Keane does. Keano is getting on a bit now though and is not the player he was...say in '99. Vieira, however, just gets better as the matches go by. No wonder Madrid want him. Cheeky buggers.
Gilberto/Butt
Unfair to put Scholes here as Gilberto is a defensive midfielder, so I've opted for Butt who is just a little way ahead of Gilberto. Not much, mind.
Pires/Giggs
Too close. I really couldn't pick as it would be harsh on the other player. Giggsy is Giggsy and SuperBob is SuperBob.

Henry/Van Nistelrooy
Henry takes this for me. Maybe not as good as finisher as RVN (only marginally) but as good as they come in every other area. Thierry along with another world-class striker at Arsenal (preferably someone with good heading ability) would make an ultimate and potentially unstoppable duo.
Wiltord/Scholes
Unfair to put Dennis here as he's more of a creator now then goal-scorer. I've opted for Wiltord instead who is less of a player then Scholes by quite some way. Has a tendency to score some important goals, however.

PP out.

Would probably agree with that, although I'd find it hard to seperate Keane + Vieira, RVN + Henry, and Campbell + Ferdinand.

Keane and Vieira - Both fantastic players. Their respective clubs would be lost without them. I think that perhaps Keane is not as past it as the papers would have peopl believe. How long he can stay at this level I don't know though, so Vieira in the long run.

RVN and Henry - Probably too different to compare. But RVN is a better finisher, holding the ball up and heading. Henry pace, dribbling, assisting. Would one day like to see them in the same team, just imagine that...

Campbell and Ferdinand - Both have their good and bad games. Ferdinand is the better player in posession of the ball though. Can't really seperate them anywhere else.


This slagging off is quite pathetic. Both managers have got some bargains on the market, but have both equally bought some utter retards also.

[PicturePerfect]

In defense of Ferguson, does he really need to make any shrewd deals anymore now? Man United are an extremely rich club. They could literally give away millions and still be well off.

And we musn't forget that Solskjaer was signed for around 1.5 million from a Norweigan side (Molde, was it?). And, of course Keano from Forest for 3.5 million. In recent times, I can think of O'Shea being bought as a youth from Waterford Bohemians (Irish side).

AW similary: Pires for 5.5 million, Ljungberg for only 3 million, Vieira for 3.5 million, Sol Campbell on Bosman, Henry for 10.5 million (he's surely more then double that now) and of course the huge profit we got for Anelka.

[f1maff]

i have not time for this Henry is just a prick, he celebrates like hes scored in the champions league final every time he puts one in (Wenger's arse that is).

[Definitely Maybe]

i have not time for this Henry is just a prick, he celebrates like hes scored in the champions league final every time he puts one in (Wenger's arse that is).

Isn't that a good thing? It shows he is commited to the club, and loves scoring goals for Arsenal.

My take on things:

Indivually, I believe Arsenal have the better players, which was reflected in my choices. Since last Christmas though, Man United have looked the better all round team, and you feel that when the pressure is on, Arsenal have been guilty of "bottling it," which is what cost them the title last year. If I had to choose, I would say that Arsenal were better, but I would rather be in Man United's position than Arsenals, as I feel that Arsenal that Arsenal have a mental problem, which is shown in there lack of condidence and lack of success in the Champions League, and how they can sometimes switch off against the smaller clubs.

I have to say though, the arrogance of the Man United fans (Giggsy, Darth whaddia call him, etc), is quite funny in a strange way, and only enhances the stereotyped image of a Man U fan. Someone posted the "Choose Arsenal" thing, and I skimmed through it, and every single one of those points could be said about Man United. Can I also ask, Giggsy, how often / how many Man U games do you go to? And are you actually from Manchester and moved to Lancaster, or have you always lived in Lancaster?

Re: the Henry / van Nistlerooy debate, it is impossible to compare them, as they are both important parts of there respective clubs style of play. Arsenal tend to play the more slick, continental style, which is why Henry is such a vital player for them, as he is fast and skillfull, and can both score and assist goals. Man United on the other hand, have a mixture of the foreign/continental game, and traditionally the English game, as they play with 2 centre backs, 2 full backs, 2 wingers who can cross the ball (Giggs and Solksjaar, I'll get on to Ronaldo in a minute), 2 defensive midfielders, 1 out and out goalscorer, and a player in the hole, who plays more as a forward, but is more of a creative player than a goalscorer. Giggs and Solksjaar provide the crosses, with van Nistlerooy getting on the end and scoring them. Notice that van Nistlerooy has been going through somewhat of a barron run of late, and its no coincidence that this is when C. Ronaldo has played instead of the injured Solksjaar, as Ronaldo has more of a free role to get in the box, rather than cross the ball. What I'm trying to say is, put van Nistlerooy in the Arsenal team instead of Henry, and theres no way he'd score 40 a season. Similary, put Henry in the Man U team, and he wouldn't be as effective as he is for Arsenal, because he isn't an out and out goalscorer, like RVN. All round though, Henry is definitely better, however.

Keane vs. Vieira. Well, they are two outstanding players, but Vieira shades it for me. Vieira isn't just a defensive midfielder - he can tackle, pass, and get forward, and his influence on the rest of the team is vital. Keane is still a quality player, but as he has gotten older, and because of the style of his play and the effect it has had on his body, Keane has had to adapt and change his game a little. He isn't as fast as he once was, so he has now had to take away the attacking aspect from his game (which he talks about in his autobiography.) Because he has lost his pace a little, United have to play another holding player there with him - Nicky Butt as opposed to Paul Scholes - but his ability hasn't gone away, and he is still a fantastic player. For me though, Vieira wins it. Keane isn't past it, but he is certainly on the decline, where as Vieira is at the peak of his game, and very similar to the Roy Keane of 1999.

Giggs or Pires is interesting. Like I said about Henry and RVN, you cant really compare, as they are different players. Giggs gets the ball, beats his man, and whips the ball in, where as Pires is more of an attacking midfielder, than an out and out left winger. Again, Giggs suits Man U's style, and Pires suits Arsenals. I still prefer Pires though, as he is a (marginally) better all round player, although its one of those where it depends which team they're in, rather than the player himself.

[Giggsy11]

MAN UTD have more money than chelsea!!!

everyone thinks they have more money but thats just one russia bloke with a big wallet.

chelsea prob don't get much revenue.

[Darth Daft]

"I have to say though, the arrogance of the Man United fans (Giggsy, Darth whaddia call him, etc), is quite funny in a strange way, and only enhances the stereotyped image of a Man U fan. Someone posted the "Choose Arsenal" thing, and I skimmed through it, and every single one of those points could be said about Man United. Can I also ask, Giggsy, how often / how many Man U games do you go to? And are you actually from Manchester and moved to Lancaster, or have you always lived in Lancaster?"

and when was i arrogant?

Perhaps you should have read the Choose Arsenal post a little more closely

"Choose Watching An Opponent Miss A Last-minute Penalty Against You, Then Running After Him And Jeering Him. Choose George Graham Grinding His Way To The Dullest Championship Win Of All Time,Choose To See Yourselves As One Of The Giants Of Continental Football When You've Never Even Reached A European Cup Semi-final In Your Entire History"

id say those points were particularly uniqe to arsenal.

as for asking how many games Giggsy goes to, what difference does it make to the validity of his arguement wether he goes to 1 or every game each season or where he lives? You talk about stereotypes but you seem to be the one basing an argument on one. Nobody asked you how many games you go to even though you could concievably have never been to any game in your life, what next do we have to attach jpegs of our season tickets before we are taken seriously?

[Henry_IS_God]

some good points ere especially from kharmel :d
thanx to ne1 defending arsenal and ppl trying to be un-baised and so un-pathetic and of course sticking to the thread

[Giggsy11]

to Darth Daft.

i have supported man utd all my life.alot of my family are from manchester but i was born in blackpool but i will have a bit of manchester blood in me!!!!

i don't go to many games mainly cos the tickets are hard to get hold of and i never have enough cash anyway.

but i have a load of man utd seaon vids and have posters all over my room.

but i don't support em cos they always win cos my second team is rotherham!!!!

and they are in bottom 3 of div 1!!!

[Darth Daft]

thats cool by me man, i hardly ever go to games for the same reasons and have supported Man Utd since 1981 because my dad 'told' me to :D took some immense ribbing at school off scousers and gooners.....until 1993 that is! so i dont support them because they win all the time coz we were pretty shite in the 80's. That said it is still VERY nice that they do win a lot!

agree with the tickets, they are like gold dust and far too much money for me to go consistently. Lucky then that i have found a pub with the dodgy foreign channels and i watch EVERY game live from the comfort of the bar!! (in spanish).

United's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded all our Munich dead,
Before their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their heart's blood dyed it's ev'ry fold.

Then raise United's banner high,
Beneath it's shade we'll live and die,
So keep the faith and never fear,
We'll keep the Red Flag flying here.

We'll never die, we'll never die,
We'll never die, we'll never die,
We'll keep the Red flag flying high,
'Cos Man United will never die

[Paul B]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

Cole/Silvestre - Silvestre
Campbell/Ferdinand - Campbell
Brown/Toure - Toure
Lauren/Neville - Lauren

Pires/Giggs - Giggs
Vieira/Keane - Vieira
Gilberto/Scholes - Scholes
Ljunberg/Ronaldo - Ronaldo

Henry/Van Nistelrooy - Henry
Bergkamp/Solskjaer - Solskjaer

Arsenal 5 - 6 Man Utd

[asher b]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

Cole/Silvestre - Cole
Campbell/Ferdinand - Ferdinand
Brown/Toure - Toure
Lauren/Neville - Lauren

Pires/Giggs - Giggs
Vieira/Keane - Vieira
Gilberto/Scholes - Scholes
Ljunberg/Ronaldo - Ronaldo

Henry/Van Nistelrooy - Henry
Bergkamp/Solskjaer - Bergkamp

Arsenal 6 - 5 Man Utd

[Badgerman]

Lehmann/Howard - Howard

Cole/Silvestre - Cole
Campbell/Ferdinand - Ferdinand
Brown/Toure - Brown
Lauren/Neville - G.Neville

Pires/Giggs - Giggs
Vieira/Keane - Keane
Gilberto/Scholes - Scholes
Ljunberg/Ronaldo - Ronaldo

Henry/Van Nistelrooy - RVN
Bergkamp/Solskjaer - Solksjaer

10:1

[Kharmel]

Badgerman, that's the most baised view ever. Stick to the off-topic section mate.

Lehman/Howard - Howard
Neville/Lauren - Lauren
Ferdinand/Campbell - Campbell
Toure/Silvestre(Brown) - Toure
O'Shea/Cole - Defender (O'Shea)

Pires/Giggs - Giggs (just)
Viera/Keane - Viera
Silva/Scholes - Scholes
Ljungberg/Ronaldo - Ljungberg

Henry/RVN - Henry
Bergkamp/Forlan - Bergkamp

Arsenal - 7 Man U - 4

[Henry_IS_God]

kharmel are you rele banned :????

[craigw22]

i would say that most of the man u players are better than the arsenal players but henry is definetely better than van nistelrooy

[Giggsy11]

the first bit is right the second part is wrong :D

[Darth Daft]

Whilst i think that Henry plays generally in a much more skillfull way than RVN, i find i hard to understand why everyone creams themselves so much over Henry when he has consistently struggled at a European and International level of football in direct comparison to Ruud "27 goals in 29 CL games" Van Nistelrooy.

[arron2003]

man u/ arsenal-man uman u rule

[sheringham316]

Man u have wayy more supports manship, manu's sir alex fergason actully congratualted arsenal when they won tha cup. Wheras you get bad supports manship ships like wenger. Did you hear tha laim excuses he made up why arsenal DIDNT come 1st in the premiership he was too busy whining why they DIDNT come 1st to congratulate man u. Not only that but when Rvn missed tha pen, ok it was a VERY easy opportuanity to beat arsenal, but afta he missed it all the arsenal players came across, taking tha piss. Well united wouldnt have even got tha pen if it wasnt for DIRTY play, arsenal are known to be a dirty side. sol WTF!! i bet he still whines at home why he gets soo many reds. Aresnal are turning football to "i cant get the ball lets grab there shirts till they fall, oh and keown, oh heres my chance lets get the old elbow out and smack there main player" why compare them people, if you look at ther whole squad (arsenals) you'll see they dont spend much money casue they havent got much of a team. If 1 of there players get injured then they r preety much screwed. "OH JUST LIKE LAST SEASON" whereas M.U have more players (reason for spending more then arsenal) that they can use as back up, so if 1 of there players get injured they wont come 2nd or 3rd!!

[sheringham316]

Man u have wayy more supports manship, man.u's sir alex fergason actully congratualted arsenal when they won tha cup. Wheras you get bad supports manship ships like wenger. Did you hear tha laim excuses he made up why arsenal DIDNT come 1st in the premiership he was too busy whining why they DIDNT come 1st to congratulate man u. Not only that but when Rvn missed tha pen, ok it was a VERY easy opportuanity to beat arsenal, but afta he missed it all the arsenal players came across, taking tha piss. Well united wouldnt have even got tha pen if it wasnt for DIRTY play, arsenal are known to be a dirty side. sol WTF!! i bet he still whines at home why he gets soo many reds. Aresnal are turning football to "i cant get the ball lets grab there shirts till they fall, oh and keown, oh heres my chance lets get the old elbow out and smack there main player" why compare them people.

If you look at ther whole squad (arsenals) you'll see they dont spend much money casue they havent got much of a team. If 1 of there players get injured then they r preety much screwed. "wenger-OH JUST LIKE LAST SEASON" whereas M.U have more players (reason for spending more then arsenal) that they can use as back up, so if 1 of there players get injured they wont come 3rd or below!!

Oh 1 other thing, "giggsy11" is right to confront arsenal fans, casue there saying that wenger has made wise choices for players, well if they want to spend there money about they have to earn it JUST LIKE HOW MAN U DONE IT.

Aresnal cant even travel 1ST CLASS casue they decided to build a new stadium!!

[Definitely Maybe]

Man u have wayy more supports manship, man.u's sir alex fergason actully congratualted arsenal when they won tha cup. Wheras you get bad supports manship ships like wenger. Did you hear tha laim excuses he made up why arsenal DIDNT come 1st in the premiership he was too busy whining why they DIDNT come 1st to congratulate man u. Not only that but when Rvn missed tha pen, ok it was a VERY easy opportuanity to beat arsenal, but afta he missed it all the arsenal players came across, taking tha piss. Well united wouldnt have even got tha pen if it wasnt for DIRTY play, arsenal are known to be a dirty side. sol WTF!! i bet he still whines at home why he gets soo many reds. Aresnal are turning football to "i cant get the ball lets grab there shirts till they fall, oh and keown, oh heres my chance lets get the old elbow out and smack there main player" why compare them people.

If you look at ther whole squad (arsenals) you'll see they dont spend much money casue they havent got much of a team. If 1 of there players get injured then they r preety much screwed. "wenger-OH JUST LIKE LAST SEASON" whereas M.U have more players (reason for spending more then arsenal) that they can use as back up, so if 1 of there players get injured they wont come 3rd or below!!

Oh 1 other thing, "giggsy11" is right to confront arsenal fans, casue there saying that wenger has made wise choices for players, well if they want to spend there money about they have to earn it JUST LIKE HOW MAN U DONE IT.

Aresnal cant even travel 1ST CLASS casue they decided to build a new stadium!!

In English?

Like I said, him and Giggys = Typically glory hunting Man U fans.

[sheringham316]

In english, incase you dont know manchester is in england!! You call man u supporters glory supporters casue we support a guud side, oh soo thats what u think of aresnal is it, aresnal supporters aint glory supporters casue aresnal supporters havent go anything to be proud of. JUST SHOWS THAT MAN U ARE BETTA!! u dont here aresnal people getting called glory supporters, simple reason. THEY HAVENT ACHEVIED MUCH

[sheringham316]

u other people just say tha same thing " see what i mean there glory supporters, what else is there to say about man u"

[Cillian88]

Howard/Lehmann - Howard but only just
O'shea/Cole - Cole by a mile O'Shea is shite nd im irish
Ferdinad/Campbell - Campbell
Silvestre/Touré - Touré
Neville/Lauren - Both shite-Neville
Giggs/Pires- Pires
Ronaldo/Ljungberg - Ljungberg ronaldo wit ur fancy crap
Keane/VieI RA - Vie IRA
Gilberto/Scholes - definetly scholes
bergkamp/forlan - v close prob forlan
Henry/v. nistlerooy - henry just about by miles

Man u - 4
Arsenal -7

Dis dusnt mean arsenal r better. United r better coz dey play better 2gether.

[Definitely Maybe]

In english, incase you dont know manchester is in england!! You call man u supporters glory supporters casue we support a guud side, oh soo thats what u think of aresnal is it, aresnal supporters aint glory supporters casue aresnal supporters havent go anything to be proud of. JUST SHOWS THAT MAN U ARE BETTA!! u dont here aresnal people getting called glory supporters, simple reason. THEY HAVENT ACHEVIED MUCH

No, fans like yourself get called glory supporters because they support a team with no actual links or connections to themselves, and are very ignorant towards other teams. Not because Man U are good (which they are).

[sheringham316]

hey, i dont hate other teams like arsenal if they come above man u, its things that they do, like tha match when it was man u vs arsenal, and when van missed tha penalty and half the arsenal sqad came over to him. What kinda shit is that to do, thats why i dont like arsenal cause they r ruining football by doing silly things like that. LOOK at chelski there above man u but i dont hate them!!

[danster]

All I Can Say Is Keane Is A Brilliant Player But Hes No Viera

[Definitely Maybe]

hey, i dont hate other teams like arsenal if they come above man u, its things that they do, like tha match when it was man u vs arsenal, and when van missed tha penalty and half the arsenal sqad came over to him. What kinda shit is that to do, thats why i dont like arsenal cause they r ruining football by doing silly things like that. LOOK at chelski there above man u but i dont hate them!!

Man U have been doing that for years though.

Remember when Keane and Stam and co chased the ref all around the pitch? Or has that escaped your memory?

[asher b]

or when roy keane tried to injure alfie haaland, and missed and injured himself :) that was enjoyable.

not only was he daft enough to do that, he also attempted 'revenge' a few years later, and practically ended alfies career.

to rub it all in, he wrote a book about it.

i hardly think pushing a horse about is as bad as that, my friend

[Mambo]

or when roy keane tried to injure alfie haaland, and missed and injured himself :) that was enjoyable.

not only was he daft enough to do that, he also attempted 'revenge' a few years later, and practically ended alfies career.

to rub it all in, he wrote a book about it.

i hardly think pushing a horse about is as bad as that, my friend

He did end his career. He retired earlier this year due to his injury I think

[Darth Daft]

He did end his career. He retired earlier this year due to his injury I think

It wasnt that particular injury that ended his career actually.

He was crap anyway :)

[Giggsy11]

don't matter what roy keane has done in the past he is changed now, he plays alot cleaner, hes a winner!!!

[Definitely Maybe]

It wasnt that particular injury that ended his career actually.

He was crap anyway :)

I think you'll find that it was that particular injury that ended his career. Keane practically destroyed Haalands knee, and his knee never recovered from that, which is what forced him to retire.

And I'll tell you what, why dont I just go up and take van Nistlerooy out. Then if he is forced to retire, I'll just say "hes crap anyway."

[Definitely Maybe]

don't matter what roy keane has done in the past he is changed now, he plays alot cleaner, hes a winner!!!

You could argue that the Arsenal players have changed now, and are winners. After all, it was months ago that incident - its in the past.

[asher b]

im totally with definatley maybe on that :D but u man united fans wont listen to intelligent comment cos u all think ure right and everyone else is wrong :p

[Darth Daft]

I think you'll find that it was that particular injury that ended his career. Keane practically destroyed Haalands knee, and his knee never recovered from that, which is what forced him to retire.

And I'll tell you what, why dont I just go up and take van Nistlerooy out. Then if he is forced to retire, I'll just say "hes crap anyway."

you could say that, but then lots of people would say "er, no he isnt" and more to the point "what are you doing on a football pitch anyway, shouldnt you be moaning about Man Yoo on some message board?"

Haaland WAS crap. Utter crap. And he was a dirty bastard as well as Keane. If you cant take the kitchen, get out :D .

[Henry_IS_God]

keanes the dirty bastard,haaland was crap yeh lol but hes still a player and a human,you cant do tht on a pitch,keane is more mature now tho,but haaland wasn't dirty at all and van nistrelrooy is crap most over-rated shithead ever,cant control a ball, as no skill and only basically finishes from the inside the box, i only like ruud for his postioning and coolhead for penalties which sumtimes he dived for! watch it now sum idiot say summat about the fulham goal that one from west ham, yeh they was good but it wasn't brilliant and ive never seen him do it agen!

[Henry_IS_God]

i totally agree with Cillian88's post btw lol

[Giggsy11]

You could argue that the Arsenal players have changed now, and are winners. After all, it was months ago that incident - its in the past.

but have you not seen the amount of reds arsenal have compared to man utd?
i think arsene wenger makes em play dirty on purpose!!!

[ratty123]

i am a neutral supporting no team, therefore have no bias. i would like man utd fans to answer this question, Henry got one goal less than vanistelrooy in the prem last season but had 20 assits also. The latter is a fact which proves that Henry is the better all round player which most will agree on. If though manu td fans say RVN is a better finisher than henry, i cannot see how that stands as an argument. If henry got only a goal less last season and more than van nistelrooy the season before in the priemership, how then is it possible that RVN is better than henry in anyway? Again there is no bias here, i am just interested to see man utd fans' take on this

[Zygalski]

From a 'neutral' point of view, how come you use the premiership goals as an example and not the total goals scored last season?

As another 'neutral' all I have to say is that if this thread is just going to be about people insulting each other then it will be closed so keep the debate sensible please.

[asher b]

you cant really use total goals for comparing the players because one of the teams might have played more games. the best way to tell would be a goal per game ratio.

i agree though henry is more of an all round player, van nistelrooy is more selfish (not a critisism, good strikers have to be) but imagine how good henry would be if was more greedy.

[Harry-Kewell]

I'm bored here at college, I don't have a lesson for quite a while. So let me get some facts and compare the 2 strikers.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy V Thierry Henry

Premier League

RVN 56 goals in 78 games (average 1.39) - TH 92 goals in 148 games (average 1.60)

Europe

RVN 31 goals in 37 games (average 1.19) - TH 28 goals in 54 games (average 1.92)

International

RVN 11 goals in 25 games (average 2.27) - TH 24 goals in 53 games (average 2.20)

I know Henry gets a lot of assists and does much more work for the team but when it comes to "SCORING GOALS" (which is their job) Ruud has a better average and so he is the better striker.

[asher b]

my god, u are bored lol.

i think uve done the averages different to what i was thinking of. this way, the lowest is the best, right?

there is quite a big difference between them, i never thought it wud be like that.

[Harry-Kewell]

my god, u are bored lol.

i think uve done the averages different to what i was thinking of. this way, the lowest is the best, right?

there is quite a big difference between them, i never thought it wud be like that.

Yeah, the lower the better.

[Zygalski]

At the moment, the stats show how many 'games per goal'. If you take the goals and divide it by the number of games you get goals per game instead (where higher is better).

[Giggsy11]

well theirs the proof. :D

Do not forget that RVN had a serious injury the season before and then had a 40 goal seaon with man utd.

and i think RVN does more for the team than Henry because Henry goes on all sorts of runs were as RVN holds op the ball, although Henry DOES make more assists.

[Xemun]

GIGGSY11, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Jesus, are you 8? You obviously lack the ability of thought.

Your bias will only judge your life.

[Giggsy11]

GIGGSY11, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Jesus, are you 8? You obviously lack the ability of thought.

Your bias will only judge your life.

WTF!!! :mad:

i'm a manutd fan so how can i NOT be biased towards man utd?
i think henry has WAY more skill than RVN and gets more assists but RVN is not selfish!!

its like most arsenal fans will say henry is better and most man utd fans will say RVN is better.

[Henry_IS_God]

henry is better tho, u cant class RVN for the all the tap-ins and close range headers he gets in and his penalties! henry is a better finisher! just look at his goals! you could put ne1 in ruuds postion and they'll do same! RVN is a good player but is over-rated, im tryin not to be biased aswell btw lol!

[Zygalski]

OK kids. Thread closed.
Send all letters of thanks to Xemun aka Ryan Harmer.