View Full Version : Ideas For Season 5
Scarface
30-03-2007, 14:08
We're still a long way from season 4, but I thought i'd get this thread started early, so we can plan well in advance.
I have a few ideas for season 4.
1) A contract system
We all have our favourite players that we'd never get rid of, or only if an incredible offer came in, and that's understandable, but I think we should be made to work a little harder to keep hold of them. A contract system could be a fun addition to the League. All players could start off on a 2 season contract, and we'd have to pay additional fees to extend their contracts. As players contracts start to run down, their transfer value would also decrease (might even make it that they're only worth half their player value if they only have 1 season left on their contract), while having a player on a long contract, may increase their value.
-Buyout clauses
As we all know, it's extremely difficult to sign top players for cash, even if it's huge money being offered. There are so many trades going on, as managers are frightened that money might not be enough to replace an important player, but if all players are available for cash, that might change all of that. This would need a lot of thought, but every player could have a buyout clause, say double their player value, so Thierry Henry could be signed for 60m (if his valuation is 30m), Jonathan Woodgate for 24m (if his valuation is 12m) etc. The buyout clauses could be increased depending on how long they have remaining on their contract. A manager may like to make some of their most important players increasingly difficult for a manager to sign, so would increase their contract to 5 seasons, thus giving them a huge buyout clause.
All teams may be given a cash boost, to enable them to agree some new contracts with players.
A concern with this would be the top/wealthy teams could pick off all the talent from the less financially stable clubs, although as they'd have to pay over the odds for the players (due to their buyout clauses being double) this may actually help the teams, as they'd be receiving more funds to improve their team.
All details of how long every player has remaining on their contract, their transfer value and buyout clause could be kept in the same thread, so we can have easy access to all the details.
2) Home advantage
Home sides being able to see the away teams formation in advance, before selecting their own. This should give the home team something of an advantage, and also help provide more shocks in the League, with the lowly teams pulling off big wins against those at the top of the division, and making things more unpredictable.
A big problem with this is how we'd go about having the away side post their formation in advance, to allow the home side enough time to decide their team. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of away sides fail to post an updated formation. Would it give the home teams too much of an advantage?
3) Change in voting system
As usual, there have been some unrealistic scorelines in matches, with teams winning by large margins, when the vast majority forecast the matches being tight affairs. This is largely down to managers voting for the team they think would win, without considering the current voting, but it is also down to the voting ratio making it difficult for teams to make strong comebacks. Too often, you look at match threads and see the result is as good as determined after just 1 or 2 hours. Changing the ratio might help change this.
Even if it's 4 (rather than 5) votes = 1 goal, 8 (rather than 9) votes 2 goals etc, this might help, although I think i'd be inclined to say 3 votes = 1 goal, 6 votes = 2 goals, 9 votes = 3 goals, 12 votes = 4 goals etc...
...but again, this could make matters even worse, with more lopsided scorelines, if managers don't take more care voting. Also, voters who aren't part of a League would probably vote for the team they think would win, and wouldn't have a clue about any of this. Although, perhaps including the ratio to goals ratio at the top of the thread might help.
Post any ideas you might have about next season in this thread. We're obviously a long way from any of these rules coming into existence, so for now it's only discussion.
4) Tactics
A more simple addition to the League, which is likely to be added - all managers being able to discuss in detail their tactics. With the template Original? posted, we can already see details such as mentality, short/long passing, directness etc, but we could take this one step further with managers telling us who they would substitute depending on how the game is going, how they'd cope with certain players and scenarios, if they would have any man-marking, and just a chance for discussing tactics in more depth.
One possible problem with this is it could make the matches appear untidy, and a lot of voters may not want to read through loads of tactics, which they consider boring, and some managers may not be interested in posting details of tactics, and feel posting a team is good enough.
calculus
30-03-2007, 14:15
IMO 5 votes should = 1 goal if you go that way because if someone got 15 vote that would mean they scored 5 goals and most of the matches do not have 5 goals in them!
Scarface
30-03-2007, 14:23
That's the way it works at the minute, mate. 5 votes = 1 goal, 9 = 2, 13 = 3, 17 = 4. Sometimes games can be over not long after they've been posted, as once a 7 or 8 vote gap opens up, there's little chance of a team making a comeback, but I guess it could backfire and we see a lot of thrashings if the voting ratio is decreased, so it could be a double-edged sword.
Contracts - No
Home Advantage - 50/50
Voting - 50/50
Tactics - Yes
calculus
30-03-2007, 14:56
I like the tactics bit as well like say if your bottom of the league and your playing the top team your not exactly going to go gung ho and may just play on the counter etc!
Keyser Soze
30-03-2007, 15:04
Hopefully, we can keep the FL as simple as it is now and introducing contracts would make it very complicated and it's not needed. If it ain't broken don't try and fix it.
Home advantage does appeal to me. Is fairly straight-forward and can be implimented fairly easily. Sounds good to me.
The voting, again, I'd prefer to keep the same. With a bit of common sense, the scorelines should be kept realistic without needing a major change. As you said, it could be a "double edged sword" and even make matters worse. If the scoreline must be changed, maybe someone can be in charge of evening them up a bit, without changing the outcome of the game e.g. if I beat Rafa 3-0 (oh noes shud of bin closer1!), James could deem it a 2-0 or 2-1 scoreline.
Tactics... a bit too complexed imo. Not a bad idea, but I'd prefer to keep it simple and leave it to the imagination a bit more for the voters. Sitting on the fence a bit, but would prefer to keep it the same.
With voting, I'd like to see everyone that comments vote a MOTM from either team, which would basically mean which player would be most effective and why. This could affect "player of the month" awards and the team with the most at the end of the season could recieve some sort of bonus (money, I assume).
I'd prefer there to be no major changes to be honest, the league's been going well for years and I feel we shouldn't need to change it much more, for the time being anyway.
"If it ain't broken don't try and fix it" and all.
calculus
30-03-2007, 15:07
^^ But tactics would tie in to Home advantage as we all know that most teams play differently depending on...Home advantage, quality of the opposition
Contract System - I've got to admit that this doesn't really appeal to me. If it is tweaked a bit then it might work but I don't really like the idea. Maybe it could be made that you have to pay a certain amount each season as part of a contract, so Thierry Henry could be on a contract of something like 2m (just an example) per season. This could force people to get rid of some of their superstars if they cost too much.
Buyout Clause - I quite like the idea, the only problem being that someone is Division 3 could save up then get somebody like Thierry Henry and this could mean that in all of their games he makes a huge difference and could win them most games.
Home advantage - I think that this is definitely a good idea, pretty simple aswell.
Voting System - I think that it is fine as it is, as The G said if it ain't broken don't try and fix it.
Tactics - I'm not to keen on this idea, as you said some people find it hard to vote in the matches as they don't have time, if they have to read all of the tactics it might discourage them either more.
Scarface
30-03-2007, 17:37
Contract System - I've got to admit that this doesn't really appeal to me. If it is tweaked a bit then it might work but I don't really like the idea. Maybe it could be made that you have to pay a certain amount each season as part of a contract, so Thierry Henry could be on a contract of something like 2m (just an example) per season. This could force people to get rid of some of their superstars if they cost too much.
That is pretty much how it'd work. You'd have to pay a certain fee to extend their contract, with the fee depending on how long you want to extend the contract by, and how good the player is.
Buyout Clause - I quite like the idea, the only problem being that someone is Division 3 could save up then get somebody like Thierry Henry and this could mean that in all of their games he makes a huge difference and could win them most games.
It'd be difficult for a Division 3 club to earn the amount required to buy a player as valuable as Thierry Henry, unless they sold almost their entire squad.
How would managers want the home advantage system to work? I can imagine we'd encounter some problems with away sides not posting their team enough in advance for the the home side to make their changes.
e.g. if I beat Rafa 3-0 (oh noes shud of bin closer1!), James could deem it a 2-0 or 2-1 scoreline.
I don't think we could really do that, as we'd more than likely have managers complaining about their scoreline being changed, accused of bias, and then if a position came down to goal difference, it'd be even worse. The changing of scorelines that's started this season (i.e. from 2-0 to 3-1 or 4-2) is probably enough.
Maybe if somebody has a home advantage they could start with a 1 vote lead or if you are the away team you are not allowed to vote for yourself.
martin_cranie
30-03-2007, 18:13
Contract system - No. While it is frustrating when big players are hard to get, this doesn't seem a good way of doing things. It would destabilise the smaller clubs who, already burdened with trying to get hold of good players, find themselves having to exert more time and resources trying to hold onto what they already have.
We need to implement a limit on the amount of players a team can own. There are several teams in the league who hold a monopoly on players, which is extremely unfair. I include managers such as Scarface, Figo and myself in this criticism. Other teams would benefit greatly from being able to buy the extra players in, say James' squad who are never used for anything other than being loaned out. Around 24/25 players max sounds reasonable.
Home advantage - Tricky to call this one, but I'm leaning towards no. The key thing here is equality. If say, in D2, Joel was playing away against Phat and forgot to update his post, and Phat then won, Joel would be put at a disavantage if I then changed my line-up after seing my opponents and went on to win. In my example, Joel could have been unable to get online for some reason, and all of a sudden he finds himself at a disadvantage just because I was online at the right time. Very unfair I think.
Voting - Yes, I was going to suggest this myself at some point. I remember earlier in the season, I played Rafalutionary in the WCL and no one bothered to vote. Four votes were cast, all to me, and despite having a 400% advantage, I was held to a draw. Ridiculous really.
Tactics - No. With the current Original? designs, there's nothing more than a superficial tactical layout, which is good. By introducing a greater tactical element it reduces the emphasis on the voter making up there own minds based on what they see, with a paragraph of analysis by a manager taking all that away from them in a very regimented, un-engaging manner. Arrows and basic passing style etc. is all that should be given.
Also, you could make the case that whichever manager is better at writing eloquent and concise tactics may get an advantage just because of his greater grasp of the language. It would just take away from the emphasis on the players themselves.
Scarface
30-03-2007, 18:14
Maybe if somebody has a home advantage they could start with a 1 vote lead or if you are the away team you are not allowed to vote for yourself.
Not a bad idea that actually, but it'd only be useful for the underdogs. When the home side is a strong favourite, it'd end up being an extra vote they don't need which might allow them another goal.
What do you feel would be the best way of allowing the home side's manager to see the away team's formation in advance, before selecting their own?
It would destabilise the smaller clubs who, already burdened with trying to get hold of good players, find themselves having to exert more time and resources trying to hold onto what they already have.
It would surely make things more difficult for the bigger teams, though, as they'd have a lot more they'd like to keep hold of. For example, in my squad, i'd be paying a fortune trying to keep hold of all my players, while the smaller teams would have to pay much less to keep hold of their best talent.
Other teams would benefit greatly from being able to buy the extra players in, say James' squad who are never used for anything other than being loaned out. Around 24/25 players max sounds reasonable.
Ah, I forgot about the loan situation which needs addressing. I would agree with a limit of 3 players being allowed to loan out per squad, and a maximum of 5 or 6 in loan trades. There are currently a couple of squads with 7 or more players out on loan.
The whole loan system needs to be revamped.
Not a bad idea that actually, but it'd only be useful for the underdogs. When the home side is a strong favourite, it'd end up being an extra vote they don't need which might allow them another goal.
What do you feel would be the best way of allowing the home side's manager to see the away team's formation in advance, before selecting their own?
Maybe you would have to get rid of the formation threads, then the away team could PM you their team 3 or 4 days before the match then you could send the formation to the home team who would then have a few days to create a team.
I like the idea of contracts ;)
Scarface
30-03-2007, 18:30
Maybe you would have to get rid of the formation threads, then the away team could PM you their team 3 or 4 days before the match then you could send the formation to the home team who would then have a few days to create a team.
I'm not sure if it'd work, as i've asked for managers to post their cup formation 3 times in the last week in various Fantasy League sticky threads, with no success, so I wouldn't want to be chasing loads of managers for their formations each week, which I can see happening.
I suppose we could set a deadline of Wednesday for away teams to have their formations updated in the appropriate formation threads, which would allow the home sides until Friday to update their formation.
I'm not sure if it'd work, as i've asked for managers to post their cup formation 3 times in the last week in various Fantasy League sticky threads, with no success, so I wouldn't want to be chasing loads of managers for their formations each week, which I can see happening.
I suppose we could set a deadline of Wednesday for away teams to have their formations updated in the appropriate formation threads, which would allow the home sides until Friday to update their formation.
Yeah I suppose that the PM way might be a bit to much work. I suppose that the Wednesday deadline might work but there might be the same problem.
Original?
30-03-2007, 18:42
Contracts
Too much hassle for what they'd add, which for me would be very little, this would certainly put me off.
Buy out Clauses
Again it's a little too much work, and I think it'd cause more unrest.
Voting
The problem can easily be sorted by discrimnating the number of votes needed to get a goal, by how many they have already scored. The idea behind it is that you can quite happily say fluke a single scrappy goal so three votes and you score, however it's harder to do this twice so you must get to eight votes to get your second goal, third goal would require fifteen votes. Now that is the same number of votes you require to get three goals at the moment but a forth perhaps requires 25 votes. This obviously makes a single vote relatively less at teh higher end of the spectrum, while maintaining a realistic philosophy behind the system.
This while making a drastic change will keep the scorelines lower and tighter. For example a vote of 15-9 through the current system would result in a 3-1 scoreline however with the above system would result in a tighter scoreline of 3-2.
The system would see an increase in the number of goals scored at the lower end of the spectrum yet would make it difficult for obscene and perhaps ultimately unrealistic scorelines to occur.
Tactics
Obviously I'm for the inclusion of some indicators to ensure managers get their gameplans across clearly, but also simply. Blocks of text will put people off voting, and reduce the accuracy of the scoreline. I did consider adding the timings of proposed substitutions on the template but was told that it had been tried previously and stopped so I didn't bother. I think they could be included without causing too much confusion however not much more than that and certainly no paragraphs of text.
Scarface
30-03-2007, 18:47
Yeah I suppose that the PM way might be a bit to much work. I suppose that the Wednesday deadline might work but there might be the same problem
Yeah, I'm sure managers would forgot to update them occasionally, but we could still go by what they have posted on the Wednesday. If they have no internet access, it's unfortunate, but it wouldn't make a great deal of difference, as even in the circumstances now, a manager could look at their opponents formation at the last minute and change it.
Preki-USA
30-03-2007, 19:02
1) A contract system
I like the idea on the surface but as Scott said this is probably not worth the amount of effort. And if god forbid, james, you died from aids or became a vegtable we'd be up shits creek with all the work that'd need to be covered.
Buyout clauses
I don't think this is in the spirit of the fantasy league. I did alot of work to get simao, ballack, and totti and if someone came along and plucked them up it'd make me pretty pissed.
Home advantage
I love this idea. I'm all for it.
Change in voting system
I'm down for this even tho my scorelines haven't been lopsided at all, ive drawn a bunch of matches....
Tactics
I'm all for this idea as long as we don't let things get too carried away. I think something similar to what Scott provided in the template is fine. I don't like the idea of planning out subs during the match because most substitutions are dictated by what is happening in the match.
I´m agree with what Preki said about Buy-out clauses. If a manager want to implement in his own team, it´s ok, but I don´t want in my team. As Preki said, I did a lot of work in get players as Mascherano, Gattuso, Gallas and some more.
The other things looks good, except the Contracts system. I really don´t like it. I don´t want to decrease my Bank Balance. This idea will do the FL much more real, but will be a disaster for team that don´t have much money (like mine).
About the Tactics, is ok your idea James, but the bad is the problem that you mentioned.
I'm sorry but now I've read it this contract thing is shit, there is no way I'm going to pay for my own player. I've got to improve my squad all the time and if I have to pay for my own player I don't really have much chance.
Scarface
31-03-2007, 01:58
I'm sorry but now I've read it this contract thing is shit, there is no way I'm going to pay for my own player. I've got to improve my squad all the time and if I have to pay for my own player I don't really have much chance.
Any need to be rude? I'd appreciate a little more politeness, when all i'm trying to do is help the League progress. Useful discussion on how to improve the League is the objective here, not calling people's ideas "shit".
Victor first mentioned to me the idea on contracts, as he feels it's the natural progression from what has been created so far, with the player values and new transfer rules, and i'd agree with that, so long as we can come up with a useful solution. As i've said before, rules will only be incorporated if they are simple enough to follow, and don't overcomplicate things. If there is no such solution, it won't go ahead.
With the prices I've seen thrown around and the money some of the clubs posess (sp?) then I think it would be a good idea to bring in a contract system.
I know I have absolutely nothing to do with this game but I like to follow it as much as any other RP-based football site. Each club should pay a fee per season for an individual player. Fo example, Thierry Henry could cost £10m a season or £20m, or less. It's up to the people who run the league.
Also, maybe it's just me but I'm not a great admirer of the voting system to decide matches. This is a forum after all and people have friends. When you give everyone the freedom of choice surely they're going to choose their friend regardless of what team they have? I'm sorry but thats my opinion.
Any need to be rude? I'd appreciate a little more politeness, when all i'm trying to do is help the League progress. Useful discussion on how to improve the League is the objective here, not calling people's ideas "shit".
Victor first mentioned to me the idea on contracts, as he feels it's the natural progression from what has been created so far, with the player values and new transfer rules, and i'd agree with that, so long as we can come up with a useful solution. As i've said before, rules will only be incorporated if they are simple enough to follow, and don't overcomplicate things. If there is no such solution, it won't go ahead.
Calm down, I pretty much agree with what everyone has said about it, it would overcomplicate the league, I don't mind the other things but it would massively disadvantage the lower teams tbh.
Happy?
1. Contract System: Initially my thoughts are mixed, it maybe great making it more realistic and challenging to hang onto your top players. However we have to think about keeping it as simple as possible. It'll attract more people I believe if it isn't overly complex, making it more accessible will keep it lively enough I think.
- Buyout Clauses: This could work. The above contract system isn't necessary for this to work I wouldn't say, justas you've said simply double the valuation if cash is to be payed maybe. Although I'm still a bit on the fence with this as you shouldn't have to pay double a players value in order to buy them, we should be more reasonable I think and realistic about how we approach transfers.
2. Home Advantage: I think a home advantage should be implemented, but how is the question I'd ask. Seeing the opposition's team before a game is too much as far as I'm concerned. What I reckon would be more appropriate is simply giving the home team a 1-vote advantage so the home team automatically starts 1-vote up. I know it isn't huge but I think it's more subtle and realistic as that 1-vote could be the difference between winning/drawing etc. Just like the crowd and familiarity of your own stadium benefits the home team in real life, they always say the crowd are a 12th man.
3. Voting: Yes. Don't need to say anymore I don't think.
4. Tactics: What we have now is enough, I mean again, we don't want it becoming too complex otherwise it would ruin the beauty of the FL. It wouldn't give the audience the initiative to vote with their own mind, they'd be bored reading through tactics etc I think. The tactics that Original produced on the template is definetely decent enough in my opinion, especially with the use of arrows on the pitch.
:)
The only thing that I'm really against is buyout clauses. In division 3 its hard to get a good a squad together and if someone was to take my strikers I would be fudged. It would also be harder for us division 3 lads to raise enough cash to buy out a good player
Contracts - I like the idea, BUT it would be very complicated to orchestrate. There is probably no easier way to implement it so therefore, probably a no for this.
Buyout clauses - No. People paying double for players is illegal- or so I thought- but this rule would actually encourage it. It would bring back the days of paying over the top for players.
Home advantage - The best way for this work is to do this via a PM system. And people don't update formations as it is (I forget sometimes) so I don't like it.
However. You could take the away side's formation 48 hours before the game and use that, and put in the home side's one as the game is put up.
We could just do this a much simpler way. If the game is too close to call, vote for home advantage.
Voting - Fine as it is. I personally don't think it is broken, so there's no need to fix it.
Tactics - I think it should be optional. If you don't want to post tactics, then don't, but if you think you can add something that would make voters vote for you then by all means post it.
Maybe you should do the Tactics thingy only in the real big matches like Cup Finals or matches at the end of the season. That way you won't have to go through the tactics of a manager every week, just in the big matches where it can make a real difference.
Good brainstorm though.
Scarface
21-04-2007, 14:35
Contracts - I like the idea, BUT it would be very complicated to orchestrate. There is probably no easier way to implement it so therefore, probably a no for this.
Buyout clauses - No. People paying double for players is illegal- or so I thought- but this rule would actually encourage it. It would bring back the days of paying over the top for players.
Home advantage - The best way for this work is to do this via a PM system. And people don't update formations as it is (I forget sometimes) so I don't like it.
However. You could take the away side's formation 48 hours before the game and use that, and put in the home side's one as the game is put up.
We could just do this a much simpler way. If the game is too close to call, vote for home advantage.
Voting - Fine as it is. I personally don't think it is broken, so there's no need to fix it.
Tactics - I think it should be optional. If you don't want to post tactics, then don't, but if you think you can add something that would make voters vote for you then by all means post it.
Good point. It's more a case of trying to encourage more cash deals, so that money is of increased importance, rather than seeing trade after trade after trade, but it could cause a lot of problems, so we'll have to go down another route.
On another note, this may be over-ambitious, but i'm considering starting to make some compilations for the Fantasy League, particularly based on big matches/matchdays, and focusing on individual teams. Although i've wanted to, I have never made any before, so they'll probably start off as very basic, but it's definitely something i'm interested in bringing into the League. I'll have to start reading some tutorials and download the easiest to use software, but I hope to start within the next month or two.
On another note, this may be over-ambitious, but i'm considering starting to make some compilations for the Fantasy League, particularly based on big matches/matchdays, and focusing on individual teams. Although i've wanted to, I have never made any before, so they'll probably start off as very basic, but it's definitely something i'm interested in bringing into the League. I'll have to start reading some tutorials and download the easiest to use software, but I hope to start within the next month or two.
Sony Vegas is a great software to use but since you have no experience making compilation, Windows Movie Maker is a good software to start with, it's relatively easy to use.
Scarface
21-04-2007, 15:29
Cheers for the advice mate. I'll have a look into it over the weekend and start planning what to do.
Does anyone know what the best software is for cutting/editing movies. I have hundreds of football videos, so will need to use loads of the clips for the compilations. Again, easiest of use is what i'm after, as I don't want it to be too complicated to begin with.
I've got a couple of programs called 'Wisecroft Ripper' and 'All Video Cutter' but I seem to need to register to use them properly.
Both Sony Vegas and Windows Movie Maker can edit clips, so there is no need to download another software.
Both Sony Vegas and Windows Movie Maker can edit clips, so there is no need to download another software.
do you know where you would get the videos in the same format for window media maker.
Keyser Soze
21-04-2007, 16:33
I'd be happy to help with the compilations too, if needed, James. Some great idea's here.
do you know where you would get the videos in the same format for window media maker.
Most video formats are AVI or WMV and they work perfectly with Windows Movie Maker.
Scarface
18-05-2007, 21:26
I'd be happy to help with the compilations too, if needed, James. Some great idea's here.
Cheers mate. I hope to get some practice in and start doing a few compilations during pre-season this summer. They'll be focused on looking at individual teams with a balance between looking at their squad, reviewing what happened last season and previewing for the new season. That's what I hope to achieve, anyway. I won't have enough time to do all the teams obviously, so any help would be appreciated.
Changes To Season 4
Division 3 Format
2 new teams will be added to Division 3, to make it a 10 team division. A decision on who will be managing the teams will be made over the next week or two.
Loaning rules
From now on, no more than 3 players can be individually loaned out from the club each season. You can still do "loan trades" where you might prefer to swap players for a season rather make the move permanent, but the deals where you loan out a player (usually as they're young and not quite good enough to break into your squad yet) will be limited to only 3 a season, in an attempt to spread out talent over the squads, and limit how many players each club can own. This would mean that clubs can only officially own 25 players (22 in their squad, and a maximum of 3 out on loan) during the course of the season.
If anyone has any queries regarding this, post them here.
Although I think contracts would be a good addition to the League, having taken other people's comments on board, now is probably not the best time to introduce it, and it would require more thought on how to make it as simple and fun as possible.
How to introduce tactics (maybe it would be best to limit the amount that each manager can post about their tactics. ie no more than 150 characters) and possible home advantage is still up for discussion...
Scarface, have come up with any ideas as to how you will address the home advantage issue?
Viperized
29-05-2007, 13:49
The contract system doesn't appear to be too bad, although I probably wouldn't want it to be implemented seeing as it would affect the transfer budgets.
As for the voting system I think it is perfectly fine at the moment. No need to change it - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Scarface
29-05-2007, 22:18
Scarface, have come up with any ideas as to how you will address the home advantage issue?
The best idea so far seems to be allowing away teams managers up until Tuesday or Wednesday to update their team (myself, Cranie or HP could then copy and paste their teams, so we know they haven't been changed when the matches are posted) and then the home team will have up until Friday to pick their team, knowing what team the other manager has picked.
The voting system won't be changed. The contract system is unlikely to be added for next season, but may be sometime in the future.
We're going to have a long close/pre-season, so we'll have more time to discuss a lot of these things then.
Just caught up with this thread, some innovative ideas in here I must say, wonder how long this' been going for.
1. Contract System: Not one I'm strongly for as we'd need to come up with a list of player wages covering every single player and consider them in every transfer. Would be realistic but as has been said, the simplicity of the FL shoudl be preserved as well.
2. Home Advantage: I favour the suggestion that the away team should first post his formation. A one- of two-vote headstart wouldn't be potentially decisive as voters could factor that in when they vote. So if he thinks the match will end in a draw, he could still vote for the away team if the votes are level at that moment, which would be bringing the scorelines closer together as well, so imo this does not do much to favour the home team.
3. Voting: Nothing wrong with the votes if they were unbiased and genuine. I can't comment much on the draws or votes for draws this half-season as I haven't been following it. The minimum number of posts needed for a member to vote can be raised for next season, if it hasn't already been. Blind voting would be good I reckon if it could be implemented, but then we would have problems voting for the losing team if they are too far behind. So I say stick with the current system. It'll be good if more managers can give a post, at least a short few sentences, on why they're voting for a team.
4. Tactics: Just a maximum of three substitutions will do for me. In fact just listing the three substitutes you'll like to bring on is enough, the voters can decide for themselves when and for who they will come on for, as pre-planned substitutions can look wrong if the match doesn't go according to plan, eg. a manager plans attacking substitutions for his team, but in the actual match itself his team maybe be leading on goals (and votes) going into the last 12 hours or so, thus that switch wouldn't be appropriate.
The short paragraph one doesnt convince me much. It could worked beautifully of course if used correctly, but we need every managers' agreement to use this, otherwise the presentation of the match could be one-sided. If a home advantage rule is implemented next season that the away team is to post their formations first, this would work even better, giving the home side the advantage of being able to prepare to counter their tactics. The only problem of the short paragraph is it's wording. It has to be quite factual and not opinion based (eg. bring (a substitute) on to change the game and tear (the opponent's defence) to shreds). A word limit of say 30 words would be good though, if it's used.
I say comepletely revamp the way games are decided. I'm not sure HOW exactly, but with voting it kind of illliminates the chance of a "giant killing".
Preki-USA
02-06-2007, 15:50
erm well thats a pie in the sky suggestion, but anyways...i don't think the trouble of Home field advantage is worth what it will bring to the league...there is also too much opportunity for cheating.
Charlie: 9
02-06-2007, 20:05
Hopefully, we can keep the FL as simple as it is now and introducing contracts would make it very complicated and it's not needed. If it ain't broken don't try and fix it.
Amen, brother.
The biggest problem I am having is that nobody cares about money in deals anymore, this needs to be sorted out although I don't know how it could be.
Del Piero
09-06-2007, 23:51
If the contract idea was in place it would mean that managers would have to raise funds to keep their better players. Thats one way.
Scarface
10-06-2007, 00:12
The biggest problem I am having is that nobody cares about money in deals anymore, this needs to be sorted out although I don't know how it could be.
A contracts/buyout clause method is the only thing I can think of. It'd take some work to implement, but money is really of limited importance most of the time, and that should change.
A contracts/buyout clause method is the only thing I can think of. It'd take some work to implement, but money is really of limited importance most of the time, and that should change.
Well if it could be made to work I'm all for it. The problem I am having is that my squad is small so I need to get up to 22 and people are reluctant to accept just money which I can totally understand with the way things are.
Well if it could be made to work I'm all for it. The problem I am having is that my squad is small so I need to get up to 22 and people are reluctant to accept just money which I can totally understand with the way things are.
Same problem I am having :(
Just having no success what so ever.
Keyser Soze
10-06-2007, 00:24
I have 18 players. :-|
Same problem I am having :(
Just having no success what so ever.
Tell me about it.
After giving the contract idea a read though again I think it would be a good idea to implement. Some people will probably disagree but it is basically impossible for me to make any deals at the moment without involving players.
Its impossible for me to make any deals without money. I need the money or i cant get anyone.
The problem is then, a lot of people won't have enough money for the contracts and since the buyout clauses are usually much higher then their value, they would spend a lot on the transfer fee and then have to pay his contract.
Really this could only be brought in if prize money is increased. I presume this wouldn't come into play till next season?
Original?
10-06-2007, 00:38
Most of my deals seem to have been dealt in cash, if everyone accepts it and knows everyone else will accept it, then it should work.
Scarface
10-06-2007, 00:43
The problem is then, a lot of people won't have enough money for the contracts and since the buyout clauses are usually much higher then their value, they would spend a lot on the transfer fee and then have to pay his contract.
Really this could only be brought in if prize money is increased. I presume this wouldn't come into play till next season?
We could have separate transfer funds and cash for contracts. I believe this could potentially be very interesting and fun, but like I say, it'll take a lot of thought and consideration.
A manager knowing they might lose a player due to their contract expiring is much more likely to take into consideration cash bids, and it would make things more interesting having to look after your own squad and think about ways of keeping it in tact and hanging onto star players. It would have both positives and negatives, but I feel the pros would far outweigh the cons, providing we come to the right solution while keeping things as simple as possible.
We could have separate transfer funds and cash for contracts. I believe this could potentially be very interesting and fun, but like I say, it'll take a lot of thought and consideration.
A manager knowing they might lose a player due to their contract expiring is much more likely to take into consideration cash bids, and it would make things more interesting having to look after your own squad and think about ways of keeping it in tact and hanging onto star players. It would have both positives and negatives, but I feel the pros would far outweigh the cons, providing we come to the right solution while keeping things as simple as possible.
I agree with that, as long as it would work then I'm all for it because if we are trying to make this realistic then money has to play a bigger part.
We could have separate transfer funds and cash for contracts.
Sort of a salary cap type thing? Where each player is given a wage for the season, and the team can only pay a certain total for players? Obviously with the higher divisions having bigger limits?
Could allow someone to break your dominance as it creates a more level playing field... also places a greater emphasis on management and juggling every player's contract.
Well now you put it like that Scar it's good, but how much would say someone like Bodmer's contract be worth compared to Gerrard?
Just trying to get a idea.
Well now you put it like that Scar it's good, but how much would say someone like Bodmer's contract be worth compared to Gerrard?
Just trying to get a idea.
I remember it was mentioned in the past that players would be given annual salaries of £1m to £5m. I gues Bodmer would be £1m, maybe £2m, and Gerrard £5m?
Scarface
10-06-2007, 01:05
Well now you put it like that Scar it's good, but how much would say someone like Bodmer's contract be worth compared to Gerrard?
Just trying to get a idea.
I haven't a clue. It would require lengthy discussions, but obviously the likes of Steven Gerrard, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry etc would cost more to keep hold of, and age would also have to be taken into consideration.
Alright mate, I presume the money for contracts would be much higher then the transfer fees as the contracts would be high?
Also could we put transfer funds into the contract funds to keep players?
Before i go on about something does all votes count? Meaning manager votes and spectators votes are counted in games.
If so, I think only managers should vote. If a spectator wants to be apart of the FL then they should only drop comments. Why because the mangers see more of the players on other teams. What do you guys think?
It's a decent idea but there wouldn't be enough votes for the current system but there is too many just to say the number of votes is how many goals they scored.
Also I'm sure there are people not in the FL know more about some of the players then the manager.
Scarface
10-06-2007, 01:31
Alright mate, I presume the money for contracts would be much higher then the transfer fees as the contracts would be high?
Also could we put transfer funds into the contract funds to keep players?
I haven't really thought about it, but I think taking money out of transfer funds to increase contracts would be fine, but not vice versa.
Before i go on about something does all votes count? Meaning manager votes and spectators votes are counted in games.
If so, I think only managers should vote. If a spectator wants to be apart of the FL then they should only drop comments. Why because the mangers see more of the players on other teams. What do you guys think?
All votes, except from members who have less than 30 posts.
Unfortunately not enough managers regularly vote for that to work well. A lot of games may have less than 10 votes each week.
I haven't really thought about it, but I think taking money out of transfer funds to increase contracts would be fine, but not vice versa.
All votes, except from members who have less than 30 posts.
Unfortunately not enough managers regularly vote for that to work well. A lot of games may have less than 10 votes each week.
I see.
martin_cranie
10-06-2007, 01:43
After giving the contract idea a read though again I think it would be a good idea to implement. Some people will probably disagree but it is basically impossible for me to make any deals at the moment without involving players.
But it really isn't though. Prepare adequately for a transfer window and you can find some gems of free agents, each of whom will cost you very little and won't involve players. Not to mention that players go in and out of favour with their managers, so it's always worth asking around about a number of players.
The new ruling about squad limits - a maximum of 25 players, assuming 3 are out on loan - also makes it likely that plenty of managers are going to have to sell to get down to size. Give it time and you'll see the heftier squads cutting some good players. Despairing now, less than 48 hours into what will be a very long window, is unjustified in my opinion.
I remain completely against the contract system. At it's most basic level it means I'm paying to keep players I've busted my balls to get, some of which I'll surely be forced to lose if funds become tight and some guy with a huge wad of cash rolls in because he's heard so and so is the latest craze. A manager who meticulously plans his acquisitions will end up being pushed about by those who have more money. Regardless of the possibility of having separate funds for transfers and contracts, I feel it has the potential to rob teams of their assets.
But it really isn't though. Prepare adequately for a transfer window and you can find some gems of free agents, each of whom will cost you very little and won't involve players. Not to mention that players go in and out of favour with their managers, so it's always worth asking around about a number of players.
The new ruling about squad limits - a maximum of 25 players, assuming 3 are out on loan - also makes it likely that plenty of managers are going to have to sell to get down to size. Give it time and you'll see the heftier squads cutting some good players. Despairing now, less than 48 hours into what will be a very long window, is unjustified in my opinion.
I'm not despairing just saying that at the moment deals are impossible to come by. I'm just worried because the teams in my league are looking much stronger than mine at the moment considering if I don't make deals I will be forced to bring in free agents who will probably not be able to cut it.
I remain completely against the contract system. At it's most basic level it means I'm paying to keep players I've busted my balls to get, some of which I'll surely be forced to lose if funds become tight and some guy with a huge wad of cash rolls in because he's heard so and so is the latest craze. A manager who meticulously plans his acquisitions will end up being pushed about by those who have more money. Regardless of the possibility of having separate funds for transfers and contracts, I feel it has the potential to rob teams of their assets.
But surely every team would be in the same situation, so you could also benefit from this system. In my opinion this would make the league more realistic.
I dunno what to think here, I'm on the fence but perhaps leaning towards no contract, as I agree with Martin, I've busted my balls to get players such as Pazzini, Landreau etc and I wouldn't want to pay to keep them really.
and I use money in plenty of my deals, not only in free agents but to sign players from other teams.
TG, I am in a worse position than you and yes it frustrating but we've got bloody yonks yet.
Trust what Martin says, as i think that is what will happen.
Squad rotation for D3.
I think this as I feel that the D3 teams when they are promoted aren't well prepared for squad rotation as their back up players are wank / have only 1 good keeper.
I think it would prepare the potential D2 teams well as they would get a hang of it and would find out good combos for the squad rotation for the next season.
As I feel that since they are unprepared for it when they are promoted to D2 they are not only at a disadvantage squad wise but also with the squad rotation.
Also another reason is that most D3 teams play their strongest team for most of the season, which makes it boring and repetitive, that was why squad rotation was introduced to D1 and D2 to make it more challenging and strategic.
Only a thought, but I think it would make D3 more challenging and also make it more fun as people have to think about their squads more.
I kind of like the idea Rafa but only if the rotation is minimal. I cant put a back up for every position.
Actually I meant having the same rotation as D1 and D2 have so D3 is more competitive rather then having people just posting their strongest squad.
Yankegg, the whole point of rotation is so you have enough players to cover each position.
Look at my squad, I have a back up for every position, http://www.pesgaming.com/showpost.php?p=563231&postcount=12
CaptainCabinet
11-06-2007, 13:20
I quite like the idea Rafa mate, but this would have to be implemented before the start of the widow, therefore it can't be done for season 4, if you know what I mean?
I quite like the idea Rafa mate, but this would have to be implemented before the start of the widow, therefore it can't be done for season 4, if you know what I mean?
I wouldn't think so mate as I think that a lot of teams seem to have players that are back ups.
There is supposedly a big break till the next season, more then enough time to discuss the idea and possibly implement it, as if this contract idea goes through for the upcoming season, surely this should as well?
Original?
11-06-2007, 13:45
I'd be happy for that to come in, I rotated my squad a little last season jus' for the hell of it and was planning to in any case. I think a happy medium between those used in D1 and D2 should be found, for at lower levels the squads aren't as strong and I feel a period of adjusment would be useful.
As for cash, it's simple, the only reason it's value seems to be low is because managers don't think other managers will accept cash. This in turn prevents them from accepting cash and then creates a vicious circle where the value of cash continues to fall. If anyone agreed to accept cash then there wouldn't be this problem, I also think more people do accept it than some managers think. For example I don't believe I've made a single deal this window that has involved a trade, and I've made a few.
I do would like to suggest moving the date of the opening of transfer windows, friday was a rather unfortunate day as I found out I had to work, and missed out on some good free agents.
I think Saturday and Sunday would be better suited days. Of course feel free to disagree if you have plans yourself.
Original?
11-06-2007, 13:52
I do would like to suggest moving the date of the opening of transfer windows, friday was a rather unfortunate day as I found out I had to work, and missed out on some good free agents.
I think Saturday and Sunday would be better suited days. Of course feel free to disagree if you have plans yourself.
I have to work Saturdays and Sundays, but an evening slot on one of those days would be fair.
As or Squad Rotation in D3, can we allow D3 managers to vote on it?
I think Saturday / Sunday could be bad, as many people could be out for the weekend, against I don't knoew if they would, but surely couldn't you get someone to buy your free agents for you?
As or Squad Rotation in D3, can we allow D3 managers to vote on it?
I think that would be a good idea mate.
Maybe Scarface or someone can set a thread up or something, with a list of pros and a list of cons so man.agers can make up their mind.
Rather then just going, I don't want it as I can play my best team all the team time.
I agree with the vote and Sunday nights for me is a good time for the start of transfer window because it will be the afternoon for where i live.
Original?
11-06-2007, 14:02
I think Saturday / Sunday could be bad, as many people could be out for the weekend, against I don't knoew if they would, but surely couldn't you get someone to buy your free agents for you?
I think that would be a good idea mate.
Maybe Scarface or someone can set a thread up or something, with a list of pros and a list of cons so man.agers can make up their mind.
Rather then just going, I don't want it as I can play my best team all the team time.
It means you're more likely to get upsets I feel, yes, if Scarface or Cranie could set up a thread outlining the rules as they feel it should work for D3 would be excellent.
It means you're more likely to get upsets I feel, yes, if Scarface or Cranie could set up a thread outlining the rules as they feel it should work for D3 would be excellent.
Yea, I'm not 100% sure what happened in D3 last year, but did people just continuely play their best team? As I feel that would make it boring, as you get the same teams winning all the time.
Original?
11-06-2007, 14:19
Mostly yes that's what happend I believe a couple of managers tinkered with their teams, but mainly just played the same team.
Reinforces why Squad Rotation should be brought into D3.
Also I don't think squad rotation is overly hard to bring in now, the rules for it are:
Each player can play a maximum of 6 consecutive games before being dropped.
Each squad player should play a minimum of 5 games over the season.
Each squad player must have played at least 2 games by mid-season (end of game 9)
Minimum of 2 games from each new mid-season signing.
Players on a half season loan should play a minimum of 2 games during the half season (by the end of game 9, or 18 if signed in mid-season)
Rafa and O?-Do you guys want this to be apart of this season? I may be able to cope with it.
Edit: I just wish I would of know before the transfer period. I might of had different targets if this squad rotation does go through this season.
Dragonfly
11-06-2007, 17:31
I like the idea of a rotation rule for D3. I was actually looking forward to it towards the end of the season. :angry: If there is a poll for it, I will vote in favour.
As for the transfer window opening day, Monday evening could be a safe choice.
CaptainCabinet
11-06-2007, 17:33
I like the idea of a rotation rule for D3. I was actually looking forward to it towards the end of the season. :angry: If there is a poll for it, I will vote in favour.
As for the transfer window opening day, Monday evening could be a safe choice.
That's no good for me, Monday nights I mean. Although I'd be happy to leave Ross in charge..
Dragonfly
11-06-2007, 17:35
Oh yeah, the football. Well, a weekday evening is really what I meant.
Keyser Soze
11-06-2007, 17:38
Oh yeah, the football. Well, a weekday evening is really what I meant.
I'd agree with that, definately.
I'd be happy with the introduction of squad rotation
So the votes for:
Rafa
Original?
Yankegg*
CC
Dragonfly
*=Not sure
Dragonfly
12-06-2007, 00:36
So the votes for:
Rafa
Original?
Yankegg*
CC
Dragonfly
*=Not sure
So, it looks like 50% at the moment. Does Scarface have to approve it, or is up to us?
Charlie: 9
12-06-2007, 00:39
I like the way Im shaping up my second FL team, much like I enjoyed doing to my first.
So a re-draft would really shake things up around here.
Dun, Dun, Dunnnnnn... :ohmy:
So, it looks like 50% at the moment. Does Scarface have to approve it, or is up to us?
Well I think if the majority of D3 managers want it, it will go through I would think
and Charlie, no ;)
Scarface
12-06-2007, 00:49
So, it looks like 50% at the moment. Does Scarface have to approve it, or is up to us?
Rich mentioned the idea of introducing squad rotation into Division 3 not too long ago, and I said it'd certainly make the division more interesting, but it should only happen if all the managers are fully commited to updating their squad rotation, as I wouldn't want to have to keep updating other manager's squad rotation stats like in previous seasons.
Charlie: 9
12-06-2007, 00:58
I don't know if its been mentioned and Im too lazy to read the pages, but would it be any good to have co-ownership deal on players?
Original?
12-06-2007, 01:00
I don't know if its been mentioned and Im too lazy to read the pages, but would it be any good to have co-ownership deal on players?
People get confused with straight forward deals, co-ownership could be very messy.
Scarface, if some of the managers don't update their squad rotation, I could do it
Dragonfly
12-06-2007, 01:11
I don't know if its been mentioned and Im too lazy to read the pages, but would it be any good to have co-ownership deal on players?
I mentioned it as a joke to PEM, but like Original? said, it would get messy with a lot of confusion and disagreements. It could work, but people have to be very committed to it.
martin_cranie
12-06-2007, 01:23
As James mentioned, I like the idea of having rotation in D3, in fact all competitions. However, while D3 is competitive, and should in my view adhere to the same rules as other leagues, it is designed with ease of use in mind. If you guys are willing to commit as honestly as you can at this point to keeping up with things then that's fantastic.
James and myself are happy to help out of course, but digging through any number of games to sort out half the teams stats is not a nice prospect.
I'm not 100% on the idea, but if every manager in D3 agrees to it...then ill be a follower and do my part in the rotations.
Original?
12-06-2007, 01:30
As I say put it to the vote for D3 managers, and then we can see if we need to bother discussing it, if we get a majority for then we can decide on the ins and outs.
Dragonfly
12-06-2007, 01:36
Agreed.
Sorry to act like an utter numpty but how does squad rotation work, being it my debut in Div 2. Could someone explain?
martin_cranie
12-06-2007, 17:22
Basically, no player can play more than 6 consecutive games, and each squad member must play at least 5 times throughout the League campaign, and twice (2 times) by the half season point (after game 9).
Just to clarify, only players who are in the same team for the whole season must play 5 games. Any player who is only in a team for half a season, first or second, has to play in a minimum of 2 league games.
People get confused with straight forward deals, co-ownership could be very messy.
Could well bring back some ridiculous prices, if after the season two managers have to bid for one player and both want him badly; inflation alert.
Either way a bit of a no-no.
greenegg
12-06-2007, 18:33
I am in divvy 3 and I am in disagreement with squad rotation. It is a bit of a hassle.
Original?
12-06-2007, 18:42
I am in divvy 3 and I am in disagreement with squad rotation. It is a bit of a hassle.
That's because you're a lazy twunt.
greenegg
12-06-2007, 18:49
That's because you're a lazy twunt.
That is spot on. IF however more are in favour me and Nathy will manage.
Is this squad rotation going threw this season in D3? The sooner I know the better.
Scarface
13-06-2007, 00:58
Seeing as most Division 3 managers are committed to doing it, there's no reason it shouldn't. Just assume so for now, and in the unlikely case that it doesn't happen, you'll have a more balanced squad anyway.
Dragonfly
13-06-2007, 01:02
I was making my dinner, and I thought how about gate receipt revenue?
The amount of revenue gained would depend on the amount of votes made in your game, and your league. Since we don't get tens of thousands of votes a game, I thought maybe each vote could be worth, say for example £1,000 each for D3 games, £3,000 for D2, and £5,000 for D1 games. Maybe higher revenue for cup games, especially finals. We could maybe split the proceeds 80% to home managers and 20% to away teams, but 50/50 for cup finals (not base distribution on who gets the most votes).
I haven't thought about it deeply, but I don't know if there's anything else to consider. The main aim of this is to hopefully increase the number of votes made.
What do you guys think? :)
Rate a player?
How about every team can pick one or two players who they are unsure on how people rate them and put them in a poll with options from 1 to 10. A rating's system would need to be created but I think this could be a good way of helping managers find out about players but limiting it to maybe one or two every transfer window means they would have to pick carefully.
Dragonfly
13-06-2007, 19:23
I was making my dinner, and I thought how about gate receipt revenue?
The amount of revenue gained would depend on the amount of votes made in your game, and your league. Since we don't get tens of thousands of votes a game, I thought maybe each vote could be worth, say for example £1,000 each for D3 games, £3,000 for D2, and £5,000 for D1 games. Maybe higher revenue for cup games, especially finals. We could maybe split the proceeds 80% to home managers and 20% to away teams, but 50/50 for cup finals (not base distribution on who gets the most votes).
I haven't thought about it deeply, but I don't know if there's anything else to consider. The main aim of this is to hopefully increase the number of votes made.
What do you guys think? :)
I think I need to quote a great man, "What do you guys think?"
Original?
13-06-2007, 20:37
It seems a decent idea, I'm sure we'd see an increase of managers voting for themselves but I suppose that's only like the managers turning up for the match! :tongue:
It could reduce people voting in their rivals matches though.
Scarface
13-06-2007, 20:44
It's not a bad idea, but i'd rather just give managers some extra cash for regular posting and voting in each matchday. It'd take a bit of effort calculating and keeping track of all the revenues.
Rate a player seems feasible, but whereabouts would the threads be posted to keep the FL as tidy and clutter-free as possible?
It reminds me of an idea I had before of taking free agents on trial. Perhaps allowing 2 trialists per team in each transfer window. They could play in a friendly or two, and then the manager makes a decision whether they want to sign them.
Then everyone says those FA's are shite and pick them up after the trial themselves ;)
Dragonfly
13-06-2007, 20:54
About the Gate Receipts calculation, I would be willing to do it.
All I would need to do is calculate total votes times price, then use whatever ratio (80:20) to allocate the money. I (or whoever does the job) would post the final amount before the thread closes.
you've got a point Barry..
A cup tournament excluding Scarface :ninja:
My team is better then his anyway.:erm:
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.