Winningelevenblog wave of negativity? Or is it me?

[Kevthedrummer]

Wasn't sure where to post this so put it here...

Are any of them related to this site? Sorry if they are and if they read this...

It just seems that from the latest video "interview" that they were a little negative. It's like they've done something that many of us would kill to do, be the first to play the new PES at a massive games conference and they turn around and say "well we weren't overwhelmed"... It looks like they are being a bit picky after playing a demo to an unfinnished game. It's like they weren't even thankful to be there which seems like a bit of a waste.

Don't get me wrong, I think they have been superb in reporting all the news that they have, I mean where would we be without them this year? They've given us loads of resources; pictures, videos which I think look great, but when it comes to their opinion they just seem negative and it seems to put a downer on the whole amazing thing they have just shown, you know? I know it's only their opinion and it shouldn't affect mine but because we're seeing most things from their perspective so it's difficult.

Anyone else think this?

It's like someone on here said just enjoy the game! I have high hopes and believe they will deliver!

[Guillermo]

They need to be critical though. There's no use in them lying, saying it's near perfect and giving us false hope. They need to stay grounded and analyse the nitty gritty areas, rather than get lost in the wonders of being able to play it early, which is probably what most of us PES fans would do.

But yeah, they should be a bit more appreciative of their opportunity. They actually sounded a bit bored.

[Kevthedrummer]

but that's what I mean, they only seem to focus on the negatives, criticism can be positive too, and also look at this, I know its a bit of an extreme example but

Anonymous said...

In other words the game sucks ass!

Cant believe we have been waiting this long for Konami to produce a 'Next-Gen' version of this game and what do we get; a pile of fucking dog shit.

I remember the astronomical leap pro made from the ps1 to the ps2. There are no parallels regarding the jump from ps2 to 3. The enhancements look more like subtle tweaks as opposed to a giant leap both in term of graphics (Which look shit, just compare FIFA 07) and gameplay. This therefore lead me to the conclusion that Konami havent invested sufficient time or effort into producing a game the fans truly deserve.

This is one fan that wont be buying that diarrhea dump.

Guess i wont be playing any footy game this year as Konami dont deserve my money and FIFA are just a joke.

22 August 2007 19:03

That's completely based on their opinion which I don't think is fair to do

[Dundon's]

There are no parallels regarding the jump from ps2 to 3. The enhancements look more like subtle tweaks as opposed to a giant leap both in term of graphics (Which look shit, just compare FIFA 07) and gameplay.

The fact that they even play Fifa in the first place speaks volumes regards their personalities.

[hitmanuk2k]

Well you can read my two cents on the blog now. You all know I've been playing this game for nearly 10 years now, as have the WENB boys. I think all PES players have a right to be frustrated by the development of the game.

[Cannon ball]

Well you can read my two cents on the blog now. You all know I've been playing this game for nearly 10 years now, as have the WENB boys. I think all PES players have a right to be frustrated by the development of the game.

What was the first PES game you played?

[hitmanuk2k]

ISS on the PSone. I actually put it on the other day for some nostalgia.

[Zoolander]

I used to play ISS on the SNES. Italians always had long hair on it.

[Rambo]

ISS was quality, i'd rank it ahead of the PES series.

[K.1.N.G.]

Criticism sells, sucking dick doesnt (unless u work in the porn industry...)!

:shocking:

[Jonny2J]

ISS Pro '98 man, what a game that was. When Ronaldo had his blue boots, everyone was practically the same on it apart from Ronaldo who was just so much better.

Everyone putting Roberto Carlos up front as well, Babangida, oh the memories.

[Zoolander]

Roberto Larcos.

[Viperized]

Ravoldi.

[-Deki-]

ISS on the PSone. I actually put it on the other day for some nostalgia.
You complained about there being a lack of activity in the PES sections, and here we have a PES related thread and its in the off-topic section.

[reddevils]

i would get bored with only 6 national teams and no tournament or anythin to play. after a day i would be like "yeah great but i wanna start a league or have matches that mean something"

i think they will love it more when they get the full game. :D

[OldFirmBlue]

Their negativity is justified IMO...........

[JonnyDp]

It normally takes me a couple of weeks to appreciate the changes in a new PES, let alone start to like the game. I'm willing to bet this forum will be full of moans and complaints after release.

In some ways poeple do expect too much - we've set our own expectations, it's not like Konami have made many promises on the game. Compare the amount of info we've had until now on PES with some of the other big next-gen games.

[AgentZero]

what the bunch of them forgot to take into account was how bad the first PES on the PS2 compared to its sixth evolution.
This my friends is just that the first installment on PES on a completely new machine, give it time and enjoy what they have given us.

[john4]

ISS Pro '98 man, what a game that was. When Ronaldo had his blue boots, everyone was practically the same on it apart from Ronaldo who was just so much better.

Everyone putting Roberto Carlos up front as well, Babangida, oh the memories.

WOW i did the exact same things as you!super5 fast babangida on the right wing,carlos up front coz hes shooting was like 8/10 but he was cheaper than other strikers oz defenders are always underrated.

[Miggy]

'98, that was with the silver fox and Ince on the front cover?

It was also all about Mboma with all his 8's, on red he was immense.

[osis1984]

WOW i did the exact same things as you!super5 fast babangida on the right wing,carlos up front coz hes shooting was like 8/10 but he was cheaper than other strikers oz defenders are always underrated.

OMG just the same thing here :) Babangida was always my first purchase in ML because he was cheap and fast :) And I would always end up with Roberto and Ronaldo up front !

When I arrived home from work today I'll play it again for that nostalgic feel :)

[SonofRambo]

Id have to agree with the WENB fellas. I changed my holiday plans so i could go to Leipzig to see PES2008. I got to play PES on the 360. After expecting Konami to take PES to the nex gen level i didnt see anything noticably different to PES6 on the 360. The gameplay was the same and the graphics arnt anywhere on par with other games on the 360 and PS3. I was pretty disappointed to be honest to think theyve spent the last year just revamping the game with a slick menu and some cut scenes.

I havent played FIFA since 2003 as the gameplay is rubbish compared to PES. However FIFA from what i briefly saw at Leipzig looked outstanding. Graphics were sharp and realistic. I didnt get to play the game or see the game long enough to judge on the gameplay but i did notice the animations with the players passing and their touch on the ball looked much more realistic and better than PES.

It wouldnt suprise me if FIFA 08 gameplay wise was on par with PES this year. That will leave us PES fans nothing to brag about anymore over the FIFA fanboys.

Although im still looking forward to PES and will still buy it. my expectations are somewhat more lower for the game than 3 months back.

[Kevthedrummer]

check this post though:

"Got an e-mail from one of my contacts this afternoon informing me that the latest builds of the beta have shown the PS3 version to be better controls and slightly sharper graphically than the Xbox 360 and PC versions. Obviously we will be able to give you definite answers on that when we get out hands on the Promo copies. We just get the feeling that the demo we played at Leipzig was from an old build and was rushed for the show.

Best Regards,

Suff"

Their stories are changing all the time! We're just going to have to wait.

[Trance_Allstar]

Yeah, I have stopped listening to previews and such completely. I mostly feel the majority of the previewers etc have no interest in the game to the depth and extent I have.

We just hear "it's more fluid" all the time. How more fluid can it be without being sold in a sealed plastic bag to avoid the contents vaporizing away.
I've seen previewers rave about features that were in PES5, as if they are new. "Gerrard is so like life, we even hit a volley so hard we knocked a player off his feet". Guess what, that's neither new, nor something unique to Gerrard. It's an animation that is executed when certain criteria are filled, such as being hit by a ball at a certain speed when in a certain position or not having a high enough Balance, etc. Why not think about the actual gameplay mechanics and not romanticising the game and imagining aspects that aren't even there.

With this installment, I was hopeing for something "NEW". A new system for animations that make them completely seamless. A new system for physics making the ball completely separate from the player (which would force the players feet to actually make contact with the ball for it to react).
Something like that. What we get is a game that looks and acts exactly the same as the PS2 versions. The ball is still kicked when the foot doesn't actually touch it. No sight of Manual controls so far.

There is nothing "NEW", only "changed". They changed the passing speed slightly (the "default" speed that you can't change yourself since the passing is automatic). THey change this every year, and in a way where there is seemingly no thought or general trend for it. They just change it back and forth.

Some things seem completely the same, like penalties. No powerbar has been seen. It is still the same lottery as before. That would have been at the very top of my list if I was producing this game. It's just unbelievable where their priorities lie. They must be so content with how the game plays that they are only changing enough to actually be allowed to legally call it a "new game".

Problem is, it is the same game as PES4 or even PES3. One pass-speed, pass aim is digital. RUnning is more rigid than ever with players running around in 8 directions always making 45-degree turns.


Unless they actually start bringing in new stuff, rather than just changing parameters for stuff already there, people are going to be pissed.
I've played the same game now since PES4. Sure, it handles slightly differently each year. But it has still been 4 years of the same passing system, the same rigid running, the same longpasses that are either 8-directional or auto-aim. Of course I am going to get fed up. Hell, some married people actually get bored of having sex after a couple of years. Of course I am going to get bored by a video game.


Just going back to ISS98 on the old N64 is heavenly. Yeah it's 10 years old, but it NEVER gets old having analog longpasses, aftertouch curling, manual groundpassing, etc. Because guess what, that is what REAL football has to offer. You don't have to pass in 8 directions when playing real football. And if I had, I would quit that too, because what's the fucking point? Where's the finesse and detail?

[L dude A ren]

Yeah, I have stopped listening to previews and such completely. I mostly feel the majority of the previewers etc have no interest in the game to the depth and extent I have.

We just hear "it's more fluid" all the time. How more fluid can it be without being sold in a sealed plastic bag to avoid the contents vaporizing away.
I've seen previewers rave about features that were in PES5, as if they are new. "Gerrard is so like life, we even hit a volley so hard we knocked a player off his feet". Guess what, that's neither new, nor something unique to Gerrard. It's an animation that is executed when certain criteria are filled, such as being hit by a ball at a certain speed when in a certain position or not having a high enough Balance, etc. Why not think about the actual gameplay mechanics and not romanticising the game and imagining aspects that aren't even there.

With this installment, I was hopeing for something "NEW". A new system for animations that make them completely seamless. A new system for physics making the ball completely separate from the player (which would force the players feet to actually make contact with the ball for it to react).
Something like that. What we get is a game that looks and acts exactly the same as the PS2 versions. The ball is still kicked when the foot doesn't actually touch it. No sight of Manual controls so far.

There is nothing "NEW", only "changed". They changed the passing speed slightly (the "default" speed that you can't change yourself since the passing is automatic). THey change this every year, and in a way where there is seemingly no thought or general trend for it. They just change it back and forth.

Some things seem completely the same, like penalties. No powerbar has been seen. It is still the same lottery as before. That would have been at the very top of my list if I was producing this game. It's just unbelievable where their priorities lie. They must be so content with how the game plays that they are only changing enough to actually be allowed to legally call it a "new game".

Problem is, it is the same game as PES4 or even PES3. One pass-speed, pass aim is digital. RUnning is more rigid than ever with players running around in 8 directions always making 45-degree turns.


Unless they actually start bringing in new stuff, rather than just changing parameters for stuff already there, people are going to be pissed.
I've played the same game now since PES4. Sure, it handles slightly differently each year. But it has still been 4 years of the same passing system, the same rigid running, the same longpasses that are either 8-directional or auto-aim. Of course I am going to get fed up. Hell, some married people actually get bored of having sex after a couple of years. Of course I am going to get bored by a video game.


Just going back to ISS98 on the old N64 is heavenly. Yeah it's 10 years old, but it NEVER gets old having analog longpasses, aftertouch curling, manual groundpassing, etc. Because guess what, that is what REAL football has to offer. You don't have to pass in 8 directions when playing real football. And if I had, I would quit that too, because what's the fucking point? Where's the finesse and detail?

What a fcuking post!!! Think I'm in agreement with practically everything you've just said. I'd of never been able to put it quite so brilliantly though.

[archie247]

so true, can't wait to load my first ps3 pes game

[moeom]

Yeah, I have stopped listening to previews and such completely. I mostly feel the majority of the previewers etc have no interest in the game to the depth and extent I have.

We just hear "it's more fluid" all the time. How more fluid can it be without being sold in a sealed plastic bag to avoid the contents vaporizing away.
I've seen previewers rave about features that were in PES5, as if they are new. "Gerrard is so like life, we even hit a volley so hard we knocked a player off his feet". Guess what, that's neither new, nor something unique to Gerrard. It's an animation that is executed when certain criteria are filled, such as being hit by a ball at a certain speed when in a certain position or not having a high enough Balance, etc. Why not think about the actual gameplay mechanics and not romanticising the game and imagining aspects that aren't even there.

With this installment, I was hopeing for something "NEW". A new system for animations that make them completely seamless. A new system for physics making the ball completely separate from the player (which would force the players feet to actually make contact with the ball for it to react).
Something like that. What we get is a game that looks and acts exactly the same as the PS2 versions. The ball is still kicked when the foot doesn't actually touch it. No sight of Manual controls so far.

There is nothing "NEW", only "changed". They changed the passing speed slightly (the "default" speed that you can't change yourself since the passing is automatic). THey change this every year, and in a way where there is seemingly no thought or general trend for it. They just change it back and forth.

Some things seem completely the same, like penalties. No powerbar has been seen. It is still the same lottery as before. That would have been at the very top of my list if I was producing this game. It's just unbelievable where their priorities lie. They must be so content with how the game plays that they are only changing enough to actually be allowed to legally call it a "new game".

Problem is, it is the same game as PES4 or even PES3. One pass-speed, pass aim is digital. RUnning is more rigid than ever with players running around in 8 directions always making 45-degree turns.


Unless they actually start bringing in new stuff, rather than just changing parameters for stuff already there, people are going to be pissed.
I've played the same game now since PES4. Sure, it handles slightly differently each year. But it has still been 4 years of the same passing system, the same rigid running, the same longpasses that are either 8-directional or auto-aim. Of course I am going to get fed up. Hell, some married people actually get bored of having sex after a couple of years. Of course I am going to get bored by a video game.


Just going back to ISS98 on the old N64 is heavenly. Yeah it's 10 years old, but it NEVER gets old having analog longpasses, aftertouch curling, manual groundpassing, etc. Because guess what, that is what REAL football has to offer. You don't have to pass in 8 directions when playing real football. And if I had, I would quit that too, because what's the fucking point? Where's the finesse and detail?

We need to print it out, petition it, get everyone to sign it and send it to Konami in a bordered poster ready to hang on their walls.

[Cellini 16]

Yeah, I have stopped listening to previews and such completely. I mostly feel the majority of the previewers etc have no interest in the game to the depth and extent I have.

We just hear "it's more fluid" all the time. How more fluid can it be without being sold in a sealed plastic bag to avoid the contents vaporizing away.



Just going back to ISS98 on the old N64 is heavenly. Yeah it's 10 years old, but it NEVER gets old having analog longpasses, aftertouch curling, manual groundpassing, etc. Because guess what, that is what REAL football has to offer. You don't have to pass in 8 directions when playing real football. And if I had, I would quit that too, because what's the fucking point? Where's the finesse and detail?

Excellent post, couldn't agree more mate (I shortened it just for ease of reading)

I've been playing this game as long as anyone, since the days of ISS on the PS one and the one on the N64. Ever since I got that game on the PS One, I have religiously bought each new release on its release date, without fail. I've played each version I would say for an hour a day AT LEAST, its mt most played game series ever in my 23 years on this planet. With each new release, I spend the months beforehand trawling the net for info on what to expect.

BUT I say with some conviction, I'm not impressed with what I've seen so far. I accepted PES6 was a rush job, I bought it anyway because I sold my ps2, to be honest I was happier with it on the ps2, it handled much better. But whats the excuse now?! The Master League has been the same for years, slight changes, but not whats needed. Just changing points to pounds for fucks sake, its a ten minute job! Things like nonsensical transfers, crap free kick/corner systems, penalties that are completely random - its school boy stuff, back to the days of super soccer on the SNES!

PES is the king of football games, far better than Fifa. But if they continue to release 'slight updates' and call it a new game, I'll be taking my money elsewhere. I'd rather lose some of the gameplay and play 'be a pro' in Fifa, than get buttfucked by Seabass again.

[Trance_Allstar]

Glad so many agree, atleast in a general way. It is nice to know I am not the only person who wants more from the game (ot atleast as much as a game like ISS98 had to offer, which at it's time was regarded by far as the best footy game available). :)

In a way it is understandable that KONAMI don't implement analog aiming, or more advanced gameplay features, because the more advanced the game is, the higher the learning curve is.

But at the same time, I don't understand why you would release a game that doesn't reward players the longer they play the game.

If a Counterstrike (to take an example) player who has played the game for 6 years faces of against a player who has played it 2 years, it is safe to say that the person who has played it 6 years has alot more potential to be better.

Yet in PES, you can take someone who has played the game for 3 years, and pit him in a penalty shootout against someone who is playing it for the first time. As long as you take 20 seconds to explain to the beginner how he aims, shoots and saves, he has an equal chance to win the shootout. It's just insane how little skill is required for most things in the game. Passing is just a point and click deal, no need to worry about subtle aiming or power. Sure if you play the game a long time you will most likely get a better feel for it, but it is still way to unrewarding for me.

So the question is, does KONAMI want beginners to be able to pick up the game and immediately be able to beat veteran players? I mean sure, the beginner might like the game immediately and become hooked which is good for business, but me being an experienced player, I can safely say the game is starting to bore me. Obviously you can argue that I should just stop playing the game if I don't like it, but the thing is I want to like it, and what kills me isn't the state the game is in now, but rather the state I know the game could be in if KONAMI just put some effort into renweing it rather than just changing what is already there.

Add a powerbar to penalties so we can balance power and accuracy ourselves.
Give us analog aim for longpasses so we can make David Beckham land a longpass down to the yard like in real-life, rather than just punting it in the general direction of a teammate who then has to run about to actually get to it.

I read FIFA08 will have analog aim AND power of through balls. Now that is great, because in real life, you CAN adjust aim and power to throughballs. PES just has a button that you press, and then you hope the player you are controlling understands where you want to strike it

Because believe me, when I play PES, I not only know what player I want a pass to reach, I know HOW the ball should reach him. but because of everything being automated or 8-directional, all I can do is press the passbutton or throughpass button, and sit back and watch the show. Instantly rewarding for beginners, a pain in the neck for someone who has been doing that very thing over and over and over for 3 years.

[7ames]

On the front page of this site, in the aussie preview of PES2008 they say that the ball is now completley seperate and that the players will actually kick the ball, as opposed to kicking the air a yard infront of the ball! So that is a big improvement.

One thing i really hope changes is the players awareness of the ball. If one player shoots and it is a poor shot that goes to another of ur players or even an opposing player, because it was a shot and not a pass, the player will leave it!!!

One online thing i would want to see added is - a star selection for each room. So if you make a match room - you select that you want to play wth teams that are 3 stars and below, then u have no inter/brazil etc.

[-LFCfan-]

Having look at Gameplay footage of PES 2008 and Fifa, I still think PES has better gameplay. Although the one thing I hope that konami improved is that you can out run a defender because in PES 6, defenders like Zak Knight were able to catch the likes if Oba Martins easily and were able to keep up with Him!

PES 2008 V FIFA 08 GAMEPLAY VIDEO,YOU DECIDE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Yt6fKViKg

[john4]

i know what you mean,sometimes slowly but always surlely the defender catches the attacker,even henry against sayde zeeuw.i think this is because they havent got defenders AI correct and so to make sure every games not like 6-6 this happens.

there is times when i see my defenders do some dodgy shizzle and think do these japanese creators have a effin clue about football!on the odd occasion...............:)