View Full Version : FL overhaul/restart discussion
Don Sweey
17-02-2008, 15:37
There's brief talk of ideas and then nothing happens. If you ever want it to happen, you have to accept that it could be a long process and will take a fair bit of administration to do, therefore try and get people appointed to start looking at it.
Barring a miracle I'm leaving the FL as a manager at the end of the season as I have never been happy with the fact that a lack of football knowledge relating to particular countries (Italy being the biggest) on the forum as a whole can penalise some teams heavily. For example, the notion that someone like Darren Bent is as good as Tommaso Rocchi which I'm sure people have entertained the idea of previously. Whether that can ever be fixed I doubt but it doesn't mean I have to like it. The conflict of interests is also a big concern as someone looking in on the FL.
All ideas should go here, any discussion about potential changes as well. I know Scarface started an "Ideas for Season 5" thread but I've no idea if we're in season 4 at the moment and he wasn't considering a total overhaul at the time.
Cranie would clearly be the main person to approach about this in the first instance but at least this is a platform for discussion.
EDIT: As for me, I believe I'd have the time to be part of the running of the FL if I'm needed in such a capacity as I do not wish to be a manager beyond this present season which I did as a semi-favour to Original? anyway.
Bammers05
17-02-2008, 15:49
Some very true points there, especially about the lack of knowledge on certain leagues. In my opinion, a complete overhaul isn't really necessary, but a lot has to be changed. In my opinion, the voting system really needs to be changed, as the lack of FL members means we usually get very few matches decided by more than one goal. I think this could be changed by either changing the voting system to 3 votes to 1 goal, or, perhaps, not having voting on the games and having the matches played out on PES or FM08 with both teams played by the computer. Although, this would obviously need someone with the time to wait for the games to be played out every weekend and it would, also, be quite easy to get players who are awesome on the game and not as good in real life. The likes of Mathieu spring to mind.
Only small changes though for me.
1. Cut the division to 2 only. Remove the managerless teams.
2. Change the vote to goals ratio.
My opinion: 3-5 : 1 goal
6-8 : 2 goals
9-12: 3 goals
13-15: 4 goals
Usual voters count: 10-15
But that's just me, don't know everyone else.
3. Maybe make a national team competition like World Cup, European Championship, Copa America, African Cup of Nations, .etc?
Would make the FL more enjoyable.
Don Sweey
18-02-2008, 09:40
I'm loving the 42 thread views and 2 votes :mellow:
A lack of knowledge will always be a problem, some only watch La Liga football whereas another manager doesn't watch anything but highlights from across the borders.
Im against a restart as I'll lose my squad:ninja:
But seriously, I think if we do a restart it may spell the end for the FL. Over at wemaniacs we tried to create a FL and it just failed as people were missing picks etc. All the people involved were all highly active aswell so it's not as if inactiveness was the reason.
At the moment a lot of the managers involved are short of time and that would slow down the whole draft process and may even ruin it.
nath_scfc
18-02-2008, 12:15
Something needs to be done to freshen things up. It's starting to get a bit stale and stagnant.
I like the idea of splitting the players from the managerless clubs and bringing the leagues down to two.
However, some cogent arguements and suggestions need to be put forth before any action is taken. As was said, some of the voters seem pretty bereft of knowledge aside from England and Spain, so some overhaul may be required.
Personally, I feel if the monopoly is broken, then a lot of interest could be rejuvenated. Although, I'm not quite sure which path is the right one.
Dragonfly
18-02-2008, 12:46
I'm loving the 42 thread views and 2 votes :mellow:
Were all 42 views by FL members?
A lack of knowledge will always be a problem, some only watch La Liga football whereas another manager doesn't watch anything but highlights from across the borders.
I can't imagine many people are able to watch more than highlights, be it because of time restraints or lack of access to live games. I don't like people having opinions based on someone else's.
The current FL team have been discussing possible changes, but I think it will be a while before we propose anything. We're taking everything everyone says into consideration.
I can't imagine many people are able to watch more than highlights, be it because of time restraints or lack of access to live games.
I, being part of that minority.
Something needs to be done to freshen things up. It's starting to get a bit stale and stagnant.
I like the idea of splitting the players from the managerless clubs and bringing the leagues down to two.
However, some cogent arguements and suggestions need to be put forth before any action is taken. As was said, some of the voters seem pretty bereft of knowledge aside from England and Spain, so some overhaul may be required.
Personally, I feel if the monopoly is broken, then a lot of interest could be rejuvenated. Although, I'm not quite sure which path is the right one.
Same 'ere.
Dragonfly
18-02-2008, 14:39
I, being part of that minority.
What makes you think it's a minority?
Most of you have a fast internet connection, so watch streams.
Dragonfly
18-02-2008, 14:47
Fast connection doesn't automatically mean people will watch football on live streams, but even if they do, how many 90min games could they watch in a week?
A bit off-topic, I know, but hey....
nath_scfc
18-02-2008, 14:57
Fast connection doesn't automatically mean people will watch football on live streams, but even if they do, how many 90min games could they watch in a week?
A bit off-topic, I know, but hey....
I don't stream at all.
With the introduction of Setanta, I tend to get to watch two from either Germany, Holland or France. Then a few English (at least one Championship game ;)), and a Serie A game on Five if I can.
go baby, go baby go!:mellow:
i think i would freshen things up. Add a little twist to things.
mufcsean
18-02-2008, 16:44
I agree, i think we should give it a fresh start, but as Sweey said, it could cause problems as the Fl isn't getting as much attention as things are, who is going to take on the responsibility of sorting it all out
Keyser Soze
18-02-2008, 16:51
Not that I'm in (or want to be involved in) the FL anymore, but a few suggestiosn from me would be to cut a few manager-less teams out of the leagues, executing a complete re-draft in old-school style so managers can actually personalise their team more to their liking and just start from a new slate.
Would be relatively easy to do and wouldn't take more than a week (doing drafting every other day or something) to get all teams and divisions set-up.
Preki-USA
18-02-2008, 23:17
Here's my two cents. I think completely washing the league would be a bad idea as it would take forever to restart and most people would lose interest in the process.
I think the foundation is set for this league to fun again with the teams we have but we need to cut the league down a bit. I still stand by my suggestion of cutting the managerless teams and letting the rest of re-draft in an order based on total wins, time in the FL, etc. As nath said this would break the strangle hold some teams have on their divisions.
Other than that I don't think much could/should be done, anything too drastic, such as Bammers ideas,which are good but too time consuming, would spell the end of the FL.
I think the knowledge of the league is pretty good, definitely better than it used to be. Personally, I know pay for my own cable so have GolTV, Fox Soccer Channel, and travel to bars to watch big matches I can't get at home. I watch every Liverpool match, the premier league review show (which I feel does an adequate job of going over the weekly mess that is the BPL.) I then catch a game from Italy and Spain and usually watch 2 or 3 from Bundeliga, which I find to be the most entertaining.
And when the MLS gets big I'll be all over that :huh:
Here's my two cents. I think completely washing the league would be a bad idea as it would take forever to restart and most people would lose interest in the process.
Agreed.
I like the idea of splitting the players from the managerless clubs and bringing the leagues down to two.
Me too.
With the introduction of Setanta, I tend to get to watch two from either Germany, Holland or France. Then a few English (at least one Championship game ;)), and a Serie A game on Five if I can.
You make it sound like Setanta is a good thing.
How's the situation for this?
Since only a few managers are willing to stay, how about we cut the league down to two divisions then do the re-drafting of players from the manager-less teams?
If a fair few participate, we could do it over the week-end? I'll be free to help this afternoon. Anyone willing to help do it?
MassMSNConvo FTW!(as Mike said)
Edit: As to what Sweey said about Tommaso Rocchi; I don't know who said that but in contrast to Tommaso Rocchi, Darren Bent is Dong Fangzhuo.(I know that's a shit comparison but Dong was the only one I could think of, sorry :tongue:)
His positioning, ball control and finishing is simply superior than Bent's. ;)
How's the situation for this?
Since only a few managers are willing to stay, how about we cut the league down to two divisions then do the re-drafting of players from the manager-less teams?
I'm for a reduction of the number of teams, to cut down D3 to five or the six teams, to serve its original purpose of assessing new managers. And thereafter, if the manager has proven himself, he could either stick with his team if it's promoted, or be promoted to take over a D2 or D1 team.
The redrafting of D3 players would not only be tedious, but also distort the balance of the league somehwat in terms of squads. For example, a team could easily pick up a right winger which has been its weak link for seasons for nothing, instead of going through the usual negotiations and trades. Almost every team would suddenly be complete in its own way, especially if the number of players picked up hits two or even three. I'm not saying this because I'm against the idea, but as you said, we'd require more discussion on this matter regarding the allocation of D3 players to other teams if they do become available.
Yes.
How about a "Tirage au sort/Mallet of Luck" scenario for the player draft? Someone trustworthy could do it?
Yes.
How about a "Tirage au sort/Mallet of Luck" scenario for the player draft? Someone trustworthy could do it?
Thought of that too but I've got a feeling it'll get wacky, everyone opening up their presents :laugh:
Haha.
Is anyone up for it or with any other ideas or do you simply want the FL to stay as it is?
How about a "Tirage au sort/Mallet of Luck" scenario for the player draft? Someone trustworthy could do it?
I've heard that Greenegg is available :shifty:
I don't know, redrafting remaining players may turn out more complicated than it seems and would make squads increase hugely with size. I think we should stick with what we've got.
It would make things more interesting though. On the other hand, it would be unfair on You, Original? etc who put all their hard work in battling for promotion (not that it was hard for Original?)
If this does go ahead, it should be that they get first picks.
Original?
11-05-2008, 17:25
It would make things more interesting though. On the other hand, it would be unfair on You, Original? etc who put all their hard work in battling for promotion (not that it was hard for Original?)
If this does go ahead, it should be that they get first picks.
Let's remember I didn't start with that squad!
I don't know, redrafting remaining players may turn out more complicated than it seems and would make squads increase hugely with size. I think we should stick with what we've got.
Then we would release the crap players who no-one has heard of, and generally improve the quality of the league as the voters know who everyone is.
I am in favour of cutting the inactive teams, making two divisions and spreading out the players of the inactive teams. Whether it is a draw or a draft, I don't know, but I'd like a random draw because it would be less predictable and it would be like Christmas morning as a kid again as we open our PMs :cool:
The redrafting of D3 players would not only be tedious, but also distort the balance of the league somehwat in terms of squads. For example, a team could easily pick up a right winger which has been its weak link for seasons for nothing, instead of going through the usual negotiations and trades. Almost every team would suddenly be complete in its own way, especially if the number of players picked up hits two or even three. I'm not saying this because I'm against the idea, but as you said, we'd require more discussion on this matter regarding the allocation of D3 players to other teams if they do become available.
Contradictory?
Original?
11-05-2008, 18:48
It's not contradictory, he means it would distort the current balance of the FL divisions.
It's not contradictory, he means it would distort the current balance of the FL divisions.
But if every squad in the FL sorts out their weaknesses would we all not be in the same position?
Charlie: 9
11-05-2008, 19:08
I dont know whos all interested in taking over a team, but I wouldnt mind giving it another crack, if possible.
Dragonfly
11-05-2008, 19:16
I think you'd definitely be welcomed back, Charlie.
What would you guys think of a semi-overhaul? Basically, you'd keep some players (possibly your best eleven or top five players) and all the rest would be open for drafting. This way, you get to keep players you've worked hard to get.
The rest of the players could be drafted by talent - e.g. class A players drafted one day, class B players drafted the next, etc - but that (their talent) would be subjective.
What would you guys think of a semi-overhaul? Basically, you'd keep some players (possibly your best eleven or top five players) and all the rest would be open for drafting. This way, you get to keep players you've worked hard to get.
The rest of the players could be drafted by talent - e.g. class A players drafted one day, class B players drafted the next, etc - but that (their talent) would be subjective.
Personally, I would prefer to keep my entire squad (even though I didn't win a game last season) then have a few added from a random draw.
Dragonfly
11-05-2008, 19:26
You'll be losing a couple of your best players in the promotion draft, Yossi. You know that, right?
You'll be losing a couple of your best players in the promotion draft, Yossi. You know that, right?
Oh yeah, of course. Besides those.
Original?
11-05-2008, 19:30
I think you'd definitely be welcomed back, Charlie.
What would you guys think of a semi-overhaul? Basically, you'd keep some players (possibly your best eleven or top five players) and all the rest would be open for drafting. This way, you get to keep players you've worked hard to get.
The rest of the players could be drafted by talent - e.g. class A players drafted one day, class B players drafted the next, etc - but that (their talent) would be subjective.
I wasn't going to get involved, but you've either got to stay as close as possible to the current method or do a total overhaul, a partil attempt will in my eyes only dissuade people further. If you lose a lot of the team you've worked to build, yet without the excitement of a new format etc. I see it being disastrous. If you don't want to completey revamp the FL, which if I'm honest I don't think there's the motivation and time available from people with the ability to do it, then you should try and keep as close to the current model as possible while attracting new managers and retaining those still with some enthusiasm.
- Division 1 and Division 2 should remain the same.
- Division 3 should be cut to a arbitary number, and used as a testing ground as Figo mentioned.
- The players that are released should be treated as players that have been released from their clubs; i.e. they should be free agents when the transfer window opens. Then the race to sign the ones the teams want is on, as it always is with free agents.
- Those committed managers in D3 should be given the option to stick with their current club or replace inactive managers from higher divisions.
Personally, I would prefer to keep my entire squad (even though I didn't win a game last season) then have a few added from a random draw.
I would rather keep Guiglermo Stendardo than get Alessandro Nesta in a random draw, every player in my squad has been fought for as there is not one player remaining from the original squad I took over. These are my players, I don't want them randomly swapped unless it for a compelte revamp that addresses all the problems of the FL, which this will not be.
I don't know, redrafting remaining players may turn out more complicated than it seems and would make squads increase hugely with size. I think we should stick with what we've got.
I see that happening too.
To do a simple sketch of a redraft or random draw, let's assume five D3 teams were to be dissolved.
Each of the five D3 teams would probably own 20 players (leave out 2 loaned in ones).
So 100 players would be available.
That makes it 4 players each the remaining 25 teams will receive.
Add that to considerations that most D1 teams already own 25 players, and there'll be problems. The free agents have yet to be picked too. Squad sizes could be increased but that'll affect squad rotation later when the season begins, if indeed we're each receiving 4 players from any potential redraft or random draw.
If it does happen though, hopefully it'll increase the activity in the transfer market, which has been in some recession lately :huh:
I see that happening too.
To do a simple sketch of a redraft or random draw, let's assume five D3 teams were to be dissolved.
Each of the five D3 teams would probably own 20 players (leave out 2 loaned in ones).
So 100 players would be available.
That makes it 4 players each the remaining 25 teams will receive.
Add that to considerations that most D1 teams already own 25 players, and there'll be problems. The free agents have yet to be picked too. Squad sizes could be increased but that'll affect squad rotation later when the season begins, if indeed we're each receiving 4 players from any potential redraft or random draw.
If it does happen though, hopefully it'll increase the activity in the transfer market, which has been in some recession lately :huh:
Like I said earlier, the poorer players will be edged out and the quality of the league will improve, plus the all of the voters will know who everyone is.
Original?
13-05-2008, 21:43
Like I said earlier, the poorer players will be edged out and the quality of the league will improve, plus the all of the voters will know who everyone is.
Yes, but it should not be done in a random draft. Just use the current free agent mechanism, squad sizes will not be affected and it will be a fairer end result.
Original?
13-05-2008, 22:39
Fair enough.
Well, like you I don't want to lose any of my players in a random draft. I also think just releasing the players as if they had been released by there clubs is the most realistic and most straightforward response.
Well, like you I don't want to lose any of my players in a random draft. I also think just releasing the players as if they had been released by there clubs is the most realistic and most straightforward response.
Yeah, I agree. It'd be bloody interesting for the first 60 seconds of the window.
Original?
13-05-2008, 23:21
Exactly! The varying strategy approaches would be interesting, also the three FAs in 24 hours and someone must post between your threads rules would apply... it would also see a reason for holding cash as there might be some pretty expensive free agents about!
Yes, I quite like the idea!
Preki-USA
14-05-2008, 17:41
Can we just make a decision on this, I want the window to open soon, I'm really looking forward to it.
Knowing that the free-agent window is going to be insane with tons of players available its hard to know what your needs will be so pre-window deals are going to be hard to come by.
Original?
14-05-2008, 19:21
I think the window should wait a couple of weeks to open due to the current exam periods a fair few members will be going through. There's really no rush.
Well, like you I don't want to lose any of my players in a random draft. I also think just releasing the players as if they had been released by there clubs is the most realistic and most straightforward response.
If that's the case, I'll say separate the transfer windows for these released players and those who are already free agents, with the free agents coming first, after the promotion picks.
one of the fair few members is me :)
I think the window should wait a couple of weeks to open due to the current exam periods a fair few members will be going through. There's really no rush.
Agreed. That would be the 17th of June for me though; so quite a way away.
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