View Full Version : Mourinho- Special one?
I think he is a very good young manager and nothing more. He has an impressive record but alot of that is down to circumstance, to me there are a few managers better than him.
The fact is he could have assembled a dream team yet he created a Chealsea team who were functional but will never go down as a great side says it all.
So is he the "Special one"?
Stella Artois
12-03-2008, 13:51
He's not in a job for a reason.
Most managers could build a strong side with money he had to spend.
Big difference is what they win without him. So far it's not looking as good is it did with him at the helm.
Personally i would use tactical, rather than special.
There's 4 or 5 managers in the world I would rather have than him. But he's definitely a very good manager, more for what he did at Porto though.
Big difference is what they win without him. So far it's not looking as good is it did with him at the helm.
Well you could also question what they would have won with him this season. Ferguson and Wenger adapted and improved after Mourinho arrival I feel Chelsea would be in exactly the same position they are in now, in the league that is.
There's no doubt he's done great things in his short managerial career, but it's too early to say whether he's the special one. I would like to see him apply his trade in Italy, that would truly test his tatical abilities.
Well you could also question what they would have won with him this season. Ferguson and Wenger adapted and improved after Mourinho arrival I feel Chelsea would be in exactly the same position they are in now, in the league that is.
True, but the immediate drop in performance when he left has had a negative effect on their season. If he'd stayed, would they be higher? Impossible to say.
There's no doubt he's done great things in his short managerial career, but it's too early to say whether he's the special one. I would like to see him apply his trade in Italy, that would truly test his tatical abilities.
Only if he was at a lower side.
5 votes on 'No' suggest he aint.
Personally I think he's a very good manager, but hasn't been in the game long enough to class him as anything else. He did very well to lead Porto to the Champions League, but in my opinion the competition was very poor that year.
What he did at Chelsea was brilliant, yes, but with that money I'd imagine many managers could have succeeded where Mourinho did (including Claudio Ranieri who was harshly sacked by Chelsea).
His next job will decide what he's got in his locker, a high pressure job, i.e. Madrid or Barca will be a big test for him.
Time will tell I guess but at this moment in time I'd say no he isn't.
Yes I personally think he is.
Stella Artois
12-03-2008, 15:29
You also think Keegan's a messiah Jonny. :rolleyes:
I'd like to see how he'd do at the Toon like.
Dragonfly
12-03-2008, 16:12
I think he's an excellent manager, to be honest. He can make brave, match-winning decisions and can motivate players. I wouldn't call him great yet, but time will tell.
The Special One would suggest he's the best, and he isn't. The best would be someone who is able to entertain the crowd and win prizes at the same time, an incredibly hard feat.
He's won a lot, and that's what the fans want so in that light he's a great manager.
Dragonfly
12-03-2008, 16:31
The Special One would suggest he's the best, and he isn't. The best would be someone who is able to entertain the crowd and win prizes at the same time, an incredibly hard feat.
He's won a lot, and that's what the fans want so in that light he's a great manager.
You're not suggesting Rijkaard, are you? :tongue:
I'd like to see how he'd do at the Toon like.
Even if he was special i don't think he could ressurect Newcastle.
He can make brave, match-winning decisions and can motivate players.
A gift too infrequent in most managers. It's rare to see any side make a change before 60 mins. Mourinho has made changes in the first half if things were not working. Albeit, he did have the luxury of bringing on players most sides would gladly have as 1st team players...
Phil W.A.F.C
12-03-2008, 17:39
Personally i think he IS the special one.
Hes about as special as my left baw.
He did a great job with Porto but the fact he couldn't replicate it with Chelsea suggests it was more down to other factors rather than sheer managing brilliance.
Definitely Maybe
12-03-2008, 18:12
The argument against him is that until he proves himself without the blank chequebook he had at Chelsea then he can't be considered a top manager, but he's already done that at Porto. Even with the resources he had it does take something special to organise a side as good as Chelsea were in his first two seasons - Ranieri couldn't do it, Grant isn't doing it (his record is actually near enough on par with Mourinho but he can't cope with the pressure of the players, the press and Abramovic), only Capello has managed it at Real Madrid for years, etc. To dismiss his achievements at Chelsea completely is stupid.
That said, he cracked under the pressure himself in his third season at Chelsea, and perhaps became complacent after achieving so much in the first two. When he did suffer with injuries, when there was a genuine competitor to the title he couldn't live up to the reputation he'd built up for himself and couldn't handle the backlash.
Perhaps his best quality is his handling of the media. He knew exactly what he was doing when he came out with the "Special One" shite. From then on the attention was solely directed at him - he could come out with any old shite (which he did) and the press would lap it up. He portrayed an image of himself which people were infatuated with. He wound Wenger up something rotten, which is an achievement in itself as he's normally cool and calm and could give it and take it with Fergie when Arsenal and Man United were the two fighting for the title. He went too far with the voyeur comment, but it had it's desired effect.
Domestically I don't think he's as "special" as Wenger or Ferguson - they both had the last laugh and probably would again if he was to manage another English side. But he's still a "special" manager.
Cannon ball
12-03-2008, 18:32
I don't think of him as "The Special One".
Don't get me wrong, what he achieved at Porto was fantastic, with little money and resources. The main thing is, his Chelsea team were not a great team to watch, they were a very "its all about the results" team. With some of the players he had at his disposal, they should have played more stylish, pleasing on the eye football.
Mourinho never really assembled a "great team". Like Manchester United 98/99, Galacticos Real Madrid, The Barcelona team of the 90's and so on, that people look back on, and think "they were a great team". Chelsea under Mourinho, does not rank with those teams.
Meyyappan
12-03-2008, 18:56
I don't think of him as "The Special One".
Don't get me wrong, what he achieved at Porto was fantastic, with little money and resources. The main thing his Chelsea team were not a great team to watch, they were a very "its all about the results" team. With some of the players he had at his disposal, they should have played more stylish, pleasing on the eye football.
Mourinho never really assembled a "great team". Like Manchester United 98/99, Galacticos Real Madrid, The Barcelona team of the 90's and so on, that people look back on, and think "they were a great team". Chelsea under Mourinho, does not rank with those teams.
You left out Arsenal 03/04 and i think to be ranked special in my eyes he would have to have something near the record he has now when he no longer has blanco checks.
You also think Keegan's a messiah Jonny. :rolleyes:Get over yourself man.
Hes about as special as my left baw.
He did a great job with Porto but the fact he couldn't replicate it with Chelsea suggests it was more down to other factors rather than sheer managing brilliance.How did he not replicate the success btw? Are you on about the Champions League? As domestically his record speaks for itself.
I think he's a cracking manager who must would love to have at their club (given circumstance of course), he wins trophies. What more do you want?
He's an arsehole though, no doubt about that.
How did he not replicate the success btw? Are you on about the Champions League? As domestically his record speaks for itself.
Champions League aye.
Also it was twice Liverpool who put his team out when he had a good domestic record over them.
Champions League aye.
Also it was twice Liverpool who put his team out when he had a good domestic record over them.The winners and finalists each year though iirc. Liverpool are a class Champions League team though, that cannot be denied. I hate watching them play in it mind, but it gets results for them.
Stella Artois
12-03-2008, 19:21
Get over yourself man.
I struggled carrying the bait for that one.
By the way, everyone goes on about how great he was domestically, yet he didn't even manage to win the double.
I struggled carrying the bait for that one.
By the way, everyone goes on about how great he was domestically, yet he didn't even manage to win the double.You know it gets me riled man. :blush:
He did still win his fair share of trophies though, obviously the open cheque book helped him. But as Ranieri proved and Grant have, that it takes something a bit more. Be interesting to see who he takes over next though. One thing he has on his side though is his age.
You know it gets me riled man. :blush:
He did still win his fair share of trophies though, obviously the open cheque book helped him. But as Ranieri proved and Grant have, that it takes something a bit more. Be interesting to see who he takes over next though. One thing he has on his side though is his age.
Grant really hasn't had the chance to spend. The players he has are Mourinho's buys.
I personally think he's a great manager but just can't stand the guy.
Edit: Ok so he brought in Anelka :shifty:
greenegg
12-03-2008, 19:31
Good manager, good character. Welcome at the Argyle.
Dragonfly
12-03-2008, 19:39
The players he has are Mourinho's buys.
But were Mourinho's buys, Mourinho's buys?
Stella Artois
12-03-2008, 19:52
But were Mourinho's buys, Mourinho's buys?
Most of Mourinho's best players were players that were bought by Ranieri.
Definitely Maybe
12-03-2008, 21:59
I struggled carrying the bait for that one.
By the way, everyone goes on about how great he was domestically, yet he didn't even manage to win the double.
Neither did Brian Clough or Bill Shankly
Neither did Brian Clough or Bill ShanklyPaisley never won the FA Cup either did he?
Keyser Soze
13-03-2008, 00:13
For me, he is. I don't think we'll have a manager like him for a long, long time. Avram Grant isn't fit to lace his boots (probably goes without saying). In my opinion, he's one of the best managers in the world without a doubt actually. I think the main reason people are doubting him here is because his teams hardly play free-flowing, attacking football which is what the neutrals admire/want - but when you're a fan of the team he's under, you're happy most of the time with the results and solid performances. Hes shit.
You're American.
Mourinho never really assembled a "great team". Like Manchester United 98/99, Galacticos Real Madrid, The Barcelona team of the 90's and so on, that people look back on, and think "they were a great team". Chelsea under Mourinho, does not rank with those teams.
Because they all played superb football? To be a great team, do you have to play stunning football? For me, not really.
He's an arsehole though, no doubt about that.
Haha, he's one of them people who you could only really love when he's affiliated with your own team. :D
I struggled carrying the bait for that one.
By the way, everyone goes on about how great he was domestically, yet he didn't even manage to win the double.
No, but back to back titles is a greater achievement.
Stella Artois
13-03-2008, 02:26
Neither did Brian Clough or Bill Shankly
Ah, but they managed to win the CL.
No, but back to back titles is a greater achievement.
With the funds he had? No chance.
Ah, but they managed to win the CL.
So did José. Just not with Chelsea.
With the funds he had? No chance.
If you asked me if I would rather have the Premier League title and FA Cup for one season and nothing the following, or the Premier League title for two seasons running, I know which one I'd pick...
He may not have won the FA Cup along with the Premier League, but he got the FA Cup eventually. He came to England and won everything available in the country in the space of three years. Mission completed for him.
Was he 'The Special One?'
Cmon what does that even mean. That's like debating whether Redman really is 'Funk Doctor Spock'. It's a meaningless term coined by the media.
As for his managerial credentials, he's a top manager. End of.
Was he 'The Special One?'
Cmon what does that even mean. That's like debating whether Redman really is 'Funk Doctor Spock'. It's a meaningless term coined by the media.
As for his managerial credentials, he's a top manager. End of.
Actually, the media did not start it, it was Mourinho who branded himself.
His sucess (regardless of cash) speaks for itself, but he's still not special and is still an arrogant cock.
Actually, the media did not start it, it was Mourinho who branded himself.
His sucess (regardless of cash) speaks for itself, but he's still not special and is still an arrogant cock.
I believe Mourinho said something along the lines of 'I consider myself a special manager because I've won the european cup' but it was the media who both coined the phrase 'Special One' and insisted on using it ad nauseum.
I believe Mourinho said something along the lines of 'I consider myself a special manager because I've won the european cup' but it was the media who both coined the phrase 'Special One' and insisted on using it ad nauseum.
Yep, branded himself 'special'.
Yep, branded himself 'special'.
Now it's just 'special'? That's not what I said. Stop being pedantic.
Ah, but they managed to win the CL.I don't actually think Shanks ever did. I could be wrong like.
You're not suggesting Rijkaard, are you? :tongue:
I don't think Rijkaard is particularly special, but he has won la Liga in two consecutive seasons (04-05, 05-06) and the Champions League already, and in very competitive years.
Good point Usul, Mourinho is a capable manager definitely, and a very good one.
Like I said earlier in the thread, could he take Newcastle back to the Champions League? Could he have saved Derby from relegation?
Doubtful to both.
mufcsean
13-03-2008, 11:51
Mourinho is a very good manager, but he clearly isn't the special one, otherwise he would have his job at Chelsea, or a job at all.
What is the Special One anyway, wasn't he the one who started all this shit by saying it about himself, to me that's just being arrogant
Now it's just 'special'? That's not what I said. Stop being pedantic.
I prefer fickle.. :tongue:
What is the Special One anyway, wasn't he the one who started all this shit by saying it about himself, to me that's just being arrogant
That's what i thought, but Akineye put me straight.
Is Jose describing his own Chelsea team or is he being a hypocrite?
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I agree with Sean tbh.
Mourinho was the one who coined the 'Special One' thing. And then the media picked up on him and got all excited like a bunch of school girls.
I agree with Sean tbh.
Mourinho was the one who coined the 'Special One' thing. And then the media picked up on him and got all excited like a bunch of school girls.
That's 3-1 Akineye... now who's being pedantic!!!!
Is Jose describing his own Chelsea team or is he being a hypocrite?
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Neither.
I don't actually think Shanks ever did. I could be wrong like.
Nah you're right mate, he never won the European Cup.
McGregor
13-03-2008, 15:29
Jose Mourinho is one of a kind. He may not be the special one but he certainly is very unique and a top class manager. If I was to pick any manager in the world to run my team it would be Jose and for that very reason I regard him to be special. It is apparent others think the same as there are a host of top clubs chasing his signature.
What I find even more impressive is that he went from a mere team translator to a top class coach in such a short period of time.
With Porto, his record was phenomenal. Two league Championships, One Portuguese Cup, One Portuguese SuperCup and the most impressive of all, One UEFA Cup followed by The UEFA Champions League the following year. His attention to detail is unreal. With a team like Porto I can't help but admire such success.
In England he had an immediate impact with his unmistakeable self confidence, drive and ambition. Money can only get you so far in football, you need someone at the helm who is able to get those results via man management and Chelsea certainly don't seem to be able to handle the big pressure games without him.
Two consecutive league titles at Chelsea plus two Carling Cups, an FA Cup and a Charity shield is a hell of an impressive feat in three seasons. Minus the Champions League he achieved all he could have and it was obvious he was heading out the door, not because of his ability but because Roman wanted a yes man.
The fact is every team Jose has coached has either transcended expectations or rewritten its own record books.
He certainly still has a lot to prove but I firmly believe he will achieve a ton more success with who ever he chooses to manage next and that in thirty plus years we will be talking about Mourinho in the same stature that we speak about Maradona and Pele as players.
Jose Mourinho is one of a kind. He may not be the special one but he certainly is very unique and a top class manager. If I was to pick any manager in the world to run my team it would be Jose and for that very reason I regard him to be special. It is apparent others think the same as there are a host of top clubs chasing his signature.
What I find even more impressive is that he went from a mere team translator to a top class coach in such a short period of time.
With Porto, his record was phenomenal. Two league Championships, One Portuguese Cup, One Portuguese SuperCup and the most impressive of all, One UEFA Cup followed by The UEFA Champions League the following year. His attention to detail is unreal. With a team like Porto I can't help but admire such success.
In England he had an immediate impact with his unmistakeable self confidence, drive and ambition. Money can only get you so far in football, you need someone at the helm who is able to get those results via man management and Chelsea certainly don't seem to be able to handle the big pressure games without him.
Two consecutive league titles at Chelsea plus two Carling Cups, an FA Cup and a Charity shield is a hell of an impressive feat in three seasons. Minus the Champions League he achieved all he could have and it was obvious he was heading out the door, not because of his ability but because Roman wanted a yes man.
The fact is every team Jose has coached has either transcended expectations or rewritten its own record books.
He certainly still has a lot to prove but I firmly believe he will achieve a ton more success with who ever he chooses to manage next and that in thirty plus years we will be talking about Mourinho in the same stature that we speak about Maradona and Pele as players.
I thought that about Danny Cadamarteri...and look what happened to him.
Keyser Soze
13-03-2008, 16:23
Good point Usul, Mourinho is a capable manager definitely, and a very good one.
Like I said earlier in the thread, could he take Newcastle back to the Champions League? Could he have saved Derby from relegation?
Doubtful to both.
He could have definately saved Derby given the team at the start of the season in my opinion. With a team of under-dogs, he is at his best.
That's 3-1 Akineye... now who's being pedantic!!!!
Put it this way... find me a single interview where Jose refers to himself as 'the special one'.
The term was coined by the media after his first interview when he said he considered himself a special manager.
Put it this way... find me a single interview where Jose refers to himself as 'the special one'.
The term was coined by the media after his first interview when he said he considered himself a special manager.
He actually said "I am a special one".
Cannon ball
13-03-2008, 18:48
Because they all played superb football? To be a great team, do you have to play stunning football? For me, not really.
I think if you're a great team, you will naturally play football that is good to watch, because of the players in it, and the manager in charge.
He actually said "I am a special one".
That's exactly what Akineye said.
"Please don't call me arrogant, but I'm European champion and I think I'm a special one".
A special one, not THE special one.
This was like 4 years ago anyway, are you that obsessed with Mourinho that you must go back into the past to find a way to attack him?
You currently have a great manager, who has potential to be a world class - Why don't you go and concentrate on him.
Definitely Maybe
13-03-2008, 19:08
I don't actually think Shanks ever did. I could be wrong like.
He didn't, Mourinho did, and you're right about Paisley by the way.
That's exactly what Akineye said.
"Please don't call me arrogant, but I'm European champion and I think I'm a special one".
A special one, not THE special one.
This was like 4 years ago anyway, are you that obsessed with Mourinho that you must go back into the past to find a way to attack him?
You currently have a great manager, who has potential to be a world class - Why don't you go and concentrate on him.
I'd like to know how the topic is an attack on Mourinho. I feel its an interesting topic, considering we can see Chelsea before, during and after Mourinho I feel now is a good time for it. Its a simple question, whether or not Jose said he was the special one is irrelevant.
I think if you're a great team, you will naturally play football that is good to watch, because of the players in it, and the manager in charge.What about some of the great German sides? Efficient as anything, cold as anything, I wouldn't say some of their teams were renound for their footballing prowess. Great teams though none the less.
The catannacio Italian teams? So great teams there, they may not have played amazing football. Still great teams though.
Do people not consider the Liverpool team consisting of Barnes, Rush, Beardsley, Aldridge etc as a great team because they couldn't play in Europe? I've spoken to many a Liverpool fan who have said that team played possibly the best football their club has ever seen. But obviously never got to show it against the best due to the European Ban.
Cannon ball
13-03-2008, 23:26
I just feel with some of the players Mourinho had while at Chelsea, they should have played more attractive football. They had a team that could destroy others, yet they never seemed to do that.
I just feel with some of the players Mourinho had while at Chelsea, they should have played more attractive football. They had a team that could destroy others, yet they never seemed to do that.They played some class football at times in his first season when they had Duff and Robben on either wing besides Drogbar, when Robben came into the team and before he got injured they played quality football IMO. That season he made Chelsea look a different outfit as soon as he took the field, he was my player of the year without a doubt.
You're not suggesting Rijkaard, are you? :tongue:
Let's not get carried away :tongue:
I just feel with some of the players Mourinho had while at Chelsea, they should have played more attractive football. They had a team that could destroy others, yet they never seemed to do that.
Exactly. If you have that much to spend, and you still can't entertain the fans who pay monstrous amounts of money to consciously watch a team that win/won prizes but only very rarely play(ed) the football that makes the true fan sit up and take notice, then I wouldn't feel like I've achieved much.
There were and are exciting players that made it watchable but there was never an intention to win AND entertain.
Keyser Soze
14-03-2008, 21:18
Exactly. If you have that much to spend, and you still can't entertain the fans who pay monstrous amounts of money to consciously watch a team that win/won prizes but only very rarely play(ed) the football that makes the true fan sit up and take notice, then I wouldn't feel like I've achieved much.
There were and are exciting players that made it watchable but there was never an intention to win AND entertain.
I was entertained though, and I'm sure most Chelsea fans were. Why should Mourinho go out of his way to play attractive football for the neutrals? As Jonny said, we weren't playing horribly and we had some world-class individuals which was great to watch. As a fan of Chelsea, I'd much rather we played well and solidly and won titles than playing attractive football for neutrals but winning fuck all.
Playing attractive football is really nothing to do with the quality of the team (although, it is nice) and the fact is that all of Mourinho's teams were VERY efficient.
Some of you are saying that if he were "the special one" he would have a job now, but he's not managing at the moment because he doesn't want to, that's for sure.
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