View Full Version : PES09, Time is catching up..
PES, the game that Used to be for the hardcore Football fan, the game that was all about the Gameplay, the game we all loved.. What happened to PES?? What happened with Konami?
I still remember the days when PES used to have a System of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities -whereas- FIFA had a Total of 22 Stats and No Traits or Special Abilities.
This was back in 2004, back when PES was lightyears ahead of FIFA -back- when Konami used to care.
So, where are we Now?? Has PES progressed at all since 2004?? There was PES4 -then- came PES5 wich was the Tweaked more Defensive and Realistic version of PES4 -and- after PES5, things started going downhill..
PES6 proved to be a slightly Tweaked version of PES5, but with the slight Tweaks taking away what made PES5 The best Football Sim I have played. In other words, while remaining fun and Addictive -PES6- turned PES5 into more of an Arcade game..
Everything was easier, you could create Goals from nothing whenever you felt like it -whereas- scoring "Realistic" looking Goals was actually harder than pulling off the usual Individual run with a Goal as the end product. PES6 is full of Flaws and haves plenty of room to improve, it's very far from what a proper Football Sim should be. In fact, PES5 was better in Most Aspects.
Wich leads mo to ask the same question again, Where are we Now?? PES09, already recognized as the PES5 with good Graphics. Is there any real progress? Is this bad?? Well, following the Disappointment that PES08 proved to be -anything- would be welcomed, and a PES5 with great Graphics sounds awesome.
But, Is this anything "truly" Positive?? From some Perspectives it is Positive as it means we will get a good Football Sim with good Graphics, wich would be a 1st in a Football Title. But the Inevitable question is, Where are Konami heading?? Do they have any Idea of How to get past the PES5 boundary?
It seems they are out of Ideas, they have gone back to their Best Version of the Series after taking a few Steps Backwards for the last couple of years -and- after almost 5 Years Konami are still using the same Exact number of Stats and Special Abilities -whereas- FIFA already haves a Total of 36 Stats and 14 Traits.
That's How things stand Now, Konami has been relying on a good product for the past couple of years -and- they have grabbed on to that product for so Long.. that they don't seem to have any "Revolutionary" Ideas left.
FIFA had a Total of 22 Stats back in 2004 -and- they have drastically Improved over the years, already having 36 Stats and 14 Traits ("Special Abilities") in FIFA08 -and- David Rutter already stated that FIFA09 will feature even more New Player Attributes.
On the other hand, PES had a Total of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities back in 2004 -and- 4 Years later, Konami still uses the same exact System of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities.
FIFA has already caught up with PES in the Stats department -and- they are Improving on their Gameplay as we speak.. So with that said, Is Konami even trying anymore?? Is that the best they can do After 2 years??
It was OBVIOUS since PES5 that the PES Series needed to Elaborate on their Stats and Special Abilities, it was Obvious that the Graphics needed to improve -and- it was even more Obvious that if Konami kept hanging on to PES5 -FIFA- would eventually caught up.
That's where we are Now, FIFA has caught up.. and Konami seems out of Ideas.
If Konami does Not starts to listen to their Fans right NOW -they- will No Doubt be forgotten as FIFA already haves the Licenses -and- seemingly is Improving on their Gameplay, and more Importantly haves a healthy relationship with their Fans.
EA Sports are listening and Interacting with their Fans, there are No secrets there, and that is Evident in their Consistent Improvement.
If Konami doesn't follows that example, then it's Game Over for the PES Series. It's time for Konami to respond to their fan's Peticions, to their Ideas, etc, etc.. FIFA is still slightly behind PES5, but NOT for long.
Seabass and Co. it's time to listen..
nikicampos
29-08-2008, 07:29
I just read your first paragraph and couldn't keep reading, so stupid, the game hasn't even come up and you are already saying what has happened to Konami after one regular year, 2008, that in my opinion wasn't a good game but still beat Fifa 08.
Please only happy wishes for Konami right now, if Konami doesn't deliver a good game, then say whatever you anti-PES people want.
I just read your first paragraph and couldn't keep reading, so stupid, the game hasn't even come up and you are already saying what has happened to Konami after one regular year, 2008, that in my opinion wasn't a good game but still beat Fifa 08.
Please only happy wishes for Konami right now, if Konami doesn't deliver a good game, then say whatever you anti-PES people want.
Fuck Off!! you Loser.. whatever. It's my fucking Opinion.
michelfrissen
29-08-2008, 07:45
I couldn't agree more, but let's just wait for the game to come out and then judge it..
I couldn't agree more, but let's just wait for the game to come out and then judge it..
I think you people are misunderstanding me here.. I'm Not saying PES09 will be bad, Not at all. In fact, I'm looking forwards to PES09.. PES5 with good Graphics, that sounds awesome.
However, what I wanted to make clear is that PES08 is still using the same System of Stats and Special Abilities as PES4 -and- PES09 will keep going the same way. So what I'm trying to say is, Where to after PES09??
We cannot keep playing PES5 forever.. and FIFA has already caught up in terms of Stats -and- FIFA09 will have (Include) even more New Stats (Player Attributes).
So what I'm saying is that Konami should start Listening and Interacting with their Fans -because- right now we Don't know shit about PES09. We only know that PES09 will play like PES5.
And again, this place is full of Good Ideas -and- Konami doesn't seems to care about what their most hardcore Fans want. They seem to be satisfied with Re-Introducing Old games time after time -and- Unfortunately the Fanboys are always satisfied with the same games. There's just NO Progress at all.
I know what you're saying and you're right. The stats definately need to improve and needs more different stats. Pes 5 with better graphics sounds 100* times better than 08 but still the stats need more work especially considering it's next gen not ps2 days. It can support much more. Look at the new and much improved things in GTA IV. That's an improvement. Why can't konami improve like that. Gameplay is already much better in 09 (looking at videos) but it needs more work like special abilities and stats.
michelfrissen
29-08-2008, 08:24
In my opinion if they fix last years game (to much mistakes by goalkeepers, defenders running away all of a sudden, ghost players --> instead of body's coliding they go trough each other, slow down, animations running not smooth, bad looking crowd, more realistic gameplay --> like pes 5 was) we'll have a great game that will be fun to play again. For now that's all we need I think. I agree with you that for next years versions they have to evolve, but before you can evolve you need some stability first. PES 2009 will be a stabile version from where Konami can evolve the game the coming years.
So PES 2010 should be the game where we may expect to see the evolution again. Not gameplay wise, because I believe pes 2009 will have a tight gameplay again. But things they can improve after 2009 are stats (like you pointed out), animations, features and options, directions (from 16 directions to 32 directions), online play (10 vs 10), more options in edit mode, more licenses, more options in master league, etc. etc. you name it...
I know what you're saying and you're right. The stats definately need to improve and needs more different stats. Pes 5 with better graphics sounds 100* times better than 08 but still the stats need more work especially considering it's next gen not ps2 days. It can support much more. Look at the new and much improved things in GTA IV. That's an improvement. Why can't konami improve like that. Gameplay is already much better in 09 (looking at videos) but it needs more work like special abilities and stats.
Just consider the FACTS in this Thread:
From 2004 to 2008 -FIFA- has gone from having a Total of 22 Stats and NO Traits or Special Abilities (in 2004) -to- having a Total of 36 Stats and 14 Traits in 2008. David Rutter (producer of FIFA) has already confirmed that FIFA09 will feature "New Player Attributes" on Top of those 36 Stats.
On the other hand, Konami's PES has virtually remained the SAME for the Past 4 years (2004 to 2008), with no Improvement to their Old Gen System of 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities. From what it's been said, PES09 will work with the same Old 29 Stats and 23 Special Abilities.
If Konami keep up with the same Attitude, they will lose the battle.
In my opinion if they fix last years game (to much mistakes by goalkeepers, defenders running away all of a sudden, ghost players --> instead of body's coliding they go trough each other, slow down, animations running not smooth, bad looking crowd, more realistic gameplay --> like pes 5 was) we'll have a great game that will be fun to play again. For now that's all we need I think. I agree with you that for next years versions they have to evolve, but before you can evolve you need some stability first. PES 2009 will be a stabile version from where Konami can evolve the game the coming years.
So PES 2010 should be the game where we may expect to see the evolution again. Not gameplay wise, because I believe pes 2009 will have a tight gameplay again. But things they can improve after 2009 are stats (like you pointed out), animations, features and options, directions (from 16 directions to 32 directions), online play (10 vs 10), more options in edit mode, more licenses, more options in master league, etc. etc. you name it...
I understand what your saying perfectly.. and That is also How I felt back in PES6. I thought that PES 2008 would be that major leap forwards.. and it turned out that PES08 was actually a Step Back, way Back.
And No, I don't think Konami should lay off the Gameplay -on- the Contrary, I think they must always keep their Gameplay as the Top Priority, and PES5 can Improve a LOT in Gameplay Aspects.
The mere fact that we are still in PES5 -implies- that PES haves a lot to improve in their Gameplay.. with Next Gen Consoles we have much more possibilities, things are very Different Now.
And for as long as Konami keeps "polishing" PES5, we are not going to see a true Next Gen Football Sim -because- PES5 is simply NOT Next Gen, it doesn't matters if it's covered with beautiful Graphics, it still does Not plays like a Next Gen Football Sim should Play.. that's a plain FACT.
Anyways, I just cannot see Konami "evolving" in 2010, it will take longer than that..
the biggest problem is this my friend; the statts should work.
having alot of statts doesn't mean annything when they don't work.
you say FIFA has all these statts but personnaly i don't feel the difference between players and most people who have played the game feel the same way.
so the statts are there for all to see how the player is in real live i guess but in the game it doesn't mean squad.
PES on the other hand has statts that work and you feel them when using the different types of players. you feel you're players making intelligent runs when your playmaker has the ball , you feel the difference in speed when using fast players ,when using good defenders and overall when using a bad team and a good team.
i understand what you mean that PES has not progressed that much and you are right but when u compared it to FIFA that was a mistake.
FIFA has progressed alot and that's true you would have to be blind not to see the progress but when u talk about statts well on FIFA they don't realy matter.
in PES when your player shoots with his weak foot you can feel the difference but in FIFA you can see wich is his weaker foot in the statt but the player doesn't reflect that in the game everyone shoots with both feet.
you just like myself play football in real life so you must understand that when i defend i use most of that knowledge to shut players in the game down .
for example when i have one last defender against a striker i try defending in such a way that he has to use his weaker foot so he isn't that big of a threat and with great effect i might say.
in FIFA this wouldn't matter so yes i wan't more statts in the game but also statts that work an realy mean something.
the biggest problem is this my friend; the statts should work.
having alot of statts doesn't mean annything when they don't work.
you say FIFA has all these statts but personnaly i don't feel the difference between players and most people who have played the game feel the same way.
so the statts are there for all to see how the player is in real live i guess but in the game it doesn't mean squad.
PES on the other hand has statts that work and you feel them when using the different types of players. you feel you're players making intelligent runs when your playmaker has the ball , you feel the difference in speed when using fast players ,when using good defenders and overall when using a bad team and a good team.
i understand what you mean that PES has not progressed that much and you are right but when u compared it to FIFA that was a mistake.
FIFA has progressed alot and that's true you would have to be blind not to see the progress but when u talk about statts well on FIFA they don't realy matter.
in PES when your player shoots with his weak foot you can feel the difference but in FIFA you can see wich is his weaker foot in the statt but the player doesn't reflect that in the game everyone shoots with both feet.
you just like myself play football in real life so you must understand that when i defend i use most of that knowledge to shut players in the game down .
for example when i have one last defender against a striker i try defending in such a way that he has to use his weaker foot so he isn't that big of a threat and with great effect i might say.
in FIFA this wouldn't matter so yes i wan't more statts in the game but also statts that work an realy mean something.
I agree with you 100%, but.. at least FIFA "shows" they are making an effort.
I mean, How cool would it be if Konami took the Old Gen; Dribbling Accuracy, Dribbling Speed, and Technique Stats -and- Elaborated them into Stats such as; Cutting the Ball Ability, Shielding the Ball Ability, Body Feints, Explosiveness, Step Overs, Roulette, Dribbling Technique, and Dribbling Accuracy..
We would see further Differences between players, and Next Gen Consoles are more than Capable of that. If Konami Knows how to use Stats wisely -then- they should take advantage of that and Include even more Stats in the game -so- that we can see and Feel more Differences between players.
A better System of Stats and Special Abilities is the Foundation to a better game, a Next Gen game.
CRISSGRAN
29-08-2008, 10:55
You know what I love? This is only Konami's second REAL try at making a PES game on a next gen console as PES 6 was just a rushed port. How many FIFA based games did EA sports release on a next gen console before apparently getting it right this year? Lets think shall we... Fifa Road to World Cup 06, 2006 World Cup, Fifa 07, Fifa 08, Euro 08, and now we're at Fifa 09. So when you count up the attempts, I'd say Konami have a few more trys left at making a perfect PES game on a next gen console, don't you? ;)
You know what I love? This is only Konami's second REAL try at making a PES game on a next gen console as PES 6 was just a rushed port. How many FIFA based games did EA sports release on a next gen console before apparently getting it right this year? Lets think shall we... Fifa Road to World Cup 06, 2006 World Cup, Fifa 07, Fifa 08, Euro 08, and now we're at Fifa 09. So when you count up the attempts, I'd say Konami have a few more trys left at making a perfect PES game on a next gen console, don't you? ;)
Good Point.. and I haven't said I won't buy PES09. In fact, I'm actually looking forwards to PES09 -but- what I'm trying to argue here is that it is time to "see" Significant Improvements.
Not just better Graphics, but also a System of Stats and Special Abilities with more Depth and Substance, better Controls, more Realistic Gameplay, etc, etc.. A version of PES5 with good Graphics is good enough for this coming year.
But Konami really needs to start Listening, Interacting, and Responding to what their Fans want -because- they are not in a very "comfortable" situation.. as you pointed out yourself, FIFA has an advantage in Next Gen Consoles.
And again, we all Know that Konami could Improve their relationship with their Fans. We have sent Peticions, Ideas, etc, etc.. and Not a single reply from Konami.. That must Improve.
Well, Pes 5 can for sure improve a lot in gameplay but the balance between attack and defense was perfect and can't be improved. But passing and dribbling in Pes 5 weren't that good especially dribbling and from what I've seen in the videos the dribbling is much better. I can't comment on the passing because I need to play it first.
nickpring
29-08-2008, 11:17
Fuck Off!! you Loser.. whatever. It's my fucking Opinion.
Whoa! Calm down.
Overall though, you make some very decent points.
Whoa! Calm down.
Overall though, you make some very decent points.
It really bugs me whenever someone criticizes without even reading the damn Post.. I don't really care about what type of feed back I get, I appreciate them both Negative or Positive comments -but- at least people should read before arguing.
Amateur, you need to calm down a bit...Wait for the game to come out then we can see whether Fifa or Pes is better this year.
While you do make some interesting points, I feel you're taking it too seriously. Get both games then you can share your views here which game you think is better.
Well, Pes 5 can for sure improve a lot in gameplay but the balance between attack and defense was perfect and can't be improved. But passing and dribbling in Pes 5 weren't that good especially dribbling and from what I've seen in the videos the dribbling is much better. I can't comment on the passing because I need to play it first.
Just imagine PES5 with a Next Gen system for Dribbling.. it would be awesome. I think that's where Next Gen should be heading, NO more one-dimensional, repetitive; Sliding Tackles, Dribbling Moves, Shooting, etc, etc, etc.. The game could have a more Authentic feeling in each Situation.
But Once again I must say, that in order to get there Konami WILL have to (like it or not) elaborate on their Old system of Stats and Special Abilities.
nickpring
29-08-2008, 11:28
Just imagine PES5 with a Next Gen system for Dribbling.. it would be awesome. I think that where's Next Gen should be heading, NO more one-dimensional, repetitive; Sliding Tackles, Dribbling Moves, Shooting, etc, etc, etc.. The game could have a more Authentic feeling in each Situation.
But Once again I must say, that in order to get there Konami WILL have to (like it or not) elaborate on their Old system of Stats and Special Abilities.
Totally agree about PES5 man.
Amateur, you need to calm down a bit...Wait for the game to come out then we can see whether Fifa or Pes is better this year.
While you do make some interesting points, I feel you're taking it too seriously. Get both games then you can share your views here which game you think is better.
Maybe I "sound" too serious -but- I can assure you, I'm Not.. maybe I ought to change my approach. Anyways, I just wanted to simply share my Opinions with the rest of you -and- see if you agree or not. Just a different kind of argument instead of the usual Fanboy talk.
And I'm interested to see how much people agree with what I'm trying to say -because- I think we SHOULD be a little more Demanding as Fans. At the very least, we deserve some replies from Konami because honestly -they- don't even seem to care that much.
clowesbert
29-08-2008, 11:46
You know what I love? This is only Konami's second REAL try at making a PES game on a next gen console as PES 6 was just a rushed port. How many FIFA based games did EA sports release on a next gen console before apparently getting it right this year? Lets think shall we... Fifa Road to World Cup 06, 2006 World Cup, Fifa 07, Fifa 08, Euro 08, and now we're at Fifa 09. So when you count up the attempts, I'd say Konami have a few more trys left at making a perfect PES game on a next gen console, don't you? ;)
Yeah FIFA have had a few more tries, but the fact remains that on release day for the first time I will be considering which one to buy - which has never been the case before! PES visuals/graphics SHOULD NOW be up to scratch with FIFA now that we are on the PS3. All these years FIFA have being trying to catch up in the gameplay department, but why haven't Konami been busting their balls to catch up on the graphics side? Arrogance! I think they are relying far too heavily on their better gameplay, and as we saw with PES2008, that wasn't very reliable.
Pull you fingers out Konami!
Fuck Off!! you Loser.. whatever. It's my fucking Opinion.
First off, it may well be your opinion, but surely if you didn't want anyone to respond, you'd have just kept it to yourself, no?
Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Again, I will stress that it's probably better to wait until you play PES 09 before you say that they've gone nowhere in 5 years.
First off, it may well be your opinion, but surely if you didn't want anyone to respond, you'd have just kept it to yourself, no?
Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Again, I will stress that it's probably better to wait until you play PES 09 before you say that they've gone nowhere in 5 years.
I don't really care about Negative comments -but- what really bugs me is when someone who OBVIOUSLY did Not even bothered reading the Post starts criticizing. Read before arguing, that's all I'm saying.
Anyways, it's not like they have gone Nowhere in 5 years.. but surely had they kept going -instead- of relying on an establish product, surely PES08 and PES09 would have progressed more.
At least I would expect some New Stats and Special Abilities -wich- wasn't the case in PES08 -and- seems to be the case again with PES09. I'd like to see a better system of Stats and Special Abilities -in- other words, a better Foundation to build on a better game.
Seeing the same exact System of Stats and Special Abilities for the 5th consecutive year is just disappointing -even- more discouraging considering this is a Next Gen Title. We know Konami could do better if they wanted.
what stats do you want, there is a limit! I am sure the stats are used combined for effect, eg weight, height, speed, wll all have an effect on jumping! so is it more stats or just how they are used that is the issue?
freestyleh7
29-08-2008, 14:21
I just read your first paragraph and couldn't keep reading, so stupid, the game hasn't even come up and you are already saying what has happened to Konami after one regular year, 2008, that in my opinion wasn't a good game but still beat Fifa 08.
Please only happy wishes for Konami right now, if Konami doesn't deliver a good game, then say whatever you anti-PES people want.
Can't u disagree in a nice calm, and relaxed way.
Amateur. You know, I was wondering if it might be possible that KONAMI is actually using PES money to create games like MGS. Now if this is true, IF then the next PES should be a totally new engine. The MGS team was very large. Does this mean many people from that game can now actually work on a new PES. The technolgy that was used in MGS can now be used in a new PES? If this is not the case then I really have no answer for your question. And to be honest i don't see a next gen PES next year.
Another point is that I like what i have seen so far. The good thing is it's just a year for the next pes to arrive. Can we be satisfied with the online mode and be a legend? I think, if it works good I will have a great time.
i do want to point out that most of the stuff FIFA is doing doesn't impress me. For example 2vs2 is what i wanted but a 5 vs 5 would be cool i think, but a 10 vs 10 i mean how the hell are you going to play that? I know allot will be upset by this, but the graphics in FIFA sometimes look weird and i have seen ice skating in many videos.
I have played FIFA09 at Leipzig and it plays so weird it's like pressing a button and then an animation follows. There is no total control over the ball and scoring was very easy. It still play's like FIFA.
I just read your first paragraph and couldn't keep reading, so stupid, the game hasn't even come up and you are already saying what has happened to Konami after one regular year, 2008, that in my opinion wasn't a good game but still beat Fifa 08.
Please only happy wishes for Konami right now, if Konami doesn't deliver a good game, then say whatever you anti-PES people want.
I think it's not very nice to make such a comment when you don't read everything. That's like saying i haven't seen Arsenal play but they suck.
the new stats and abilities have to come because if they don't the only improvement we will be having on the next gen consoles for PES games will be graphics and that would be stupid.
the problem is that if u want to keep the balance between attack and defence (and we know how importent that is after PES2008)you will have to take in account that when u have a new dribbling system for example u have to program a way to defend it also or else u have a problem .
take PES08 for example they incorparated the speed in this game and most of the times u just use that instead of playing the beautifull game because the power speed has in the game is blown out of proportion.
this year i hope the balance is back that u can defend against speedy players and good dribblers.
so when you put something like shielding in, then u will have to make a program for the dribbler and also for the defender taking in account things like the players their weights, agility and technique because when u shield the ball u will get bumpt and pushed by the defender hoping u lose ur balance and control of the ball.
also when u aren't shielding correctly the defender most be able to poke the ball away.
so i understand what u are saying and u are right that PES should be heading that way and hopefully they will, but in such a way that the balance stays.
2-Face
I have played FIFA09 at Leipzig and it plays so weird it's like pressing a button and then an animation follows. There is no total control over the ball and scoring was very easy. It still play's like FIFA.
well my friend if what u are saying is correct then the only great things are the fluid movements and the nice graphics from far out.
well i can't wait for the demo to feel it for myself.
by anny chance did u get to play PES2009?
did u like it and how did it feel ?.
proevofan88
29-08-2008, 19:57
Ok here lets put it this way:
PES5 is WAY better then FIFA 08.
I agree that KONAMI can do MUCH BETTER then their last couple of efforts.
I think it's unfair that people say PES has been stuck in the PES5 gameplay department when FIFA ( yes it 2008 ) has still never made a better game.
As far as I know, EA are great at "MARKETING". Every year they promise great improvements and a revolutionary football game. ( 2008 and EA still has not made a better football game then PES 5, and we are here picking on KONAMI? )
As far as I'm concerned, KONAMI can REPLICATE PES5 literally in the gameplay department and I will be happy with it.
This is just my opinion
However, KONAMI need to listen to their FANS and they need to make the next great football game for the 2010 outing and they can do it too.
Looking forward to PES 2009 though, from SOME of the videos I've seen, it has greatly improved.
@ Amateur I respect your opinion but you have not played FIFA 09. So it having all these stats and traits doesn't mean a thing. If you are to go by history, the odds for this FIFA to be as good as EA says it will are VERY slim. EA always makes promises and rarely meets them.
If FIFA 09 has gameplay thats about as good as PES, then I will be buying FIFA 09 this year. But that is something I have a very hard time to believe.
nikicampos
29-08-2008, 20:25
I just feel that this thread is 10 months old, come on, it's pointless to talk about 2008 when we are just about 40 day to get the 2009 version of both PES and Fifa, so, just wait 4 to 5 weeks and then if people don't like the game then trash if you want, i know i will love it, because i thought that PES 2008 was a better game than Fifa 08 and if PES 2009 will fix the last years problems, then i'll will be happy.
WENB and TheBoss from PESfan are saying that PES 2009 will pleased their fans, it's like PES5 and PES6 but with better graphics, so i think it will be really good.
muzza798
29-08-2008, 21:08
I just feel that this thread is 10 months old, come on, it's pointless to talk about 2008 when we are just about 40 day to get the 2009 version of both PES and Fifa, so, just wait 4 to 5 weeks and then if people don't like the game then trash if you want, i know i will love it, because i thought that PES 2008 was a better game than Fifa 08 and if PES 2009 will fix the last years problems, then i'll will be happy.
WENB and TheBoss from PESfan are saying that PES 2009 will pleased their fans, it's like PES5 and PES6 but with better graphics, so i think it will be really good.
Yh same here, im digging this years game so far. Adam from WENB said if you liked the vids from leipzig then your gonna get a treat when you see the final version. I love the leipzig vids. Looks like a good game of football.
CRISSGRAN
29-08-2008, 21:55
Trusting EA is very hard to do, especially after them being clients of my company, we have to test The Sims 2, Need for Speed most wanted and Fifa 2006. Whenever we got back to our main contact he was always closing bugs as designed or leaving them in. EA's main goal is to market things, they don't really care as much if the product isn't upto scratch, as long as it's dumbed down enough. Crysis is a perfect example, it was looking insanely good till EA got involved, now it's still not bad, looks nice, but it's more suited to gramers, that's EA in one word, Gramers.(look it up if you don't understand);)
nikicampos
29-08-2008, 22:15
Well, i just got curious about "gramers" i found it, and it made me laugh.
Here's what i found out.
"A person who acts like a gamer but really only plays Madden, Halo, and GTA. Similar to a douche and has qualities of a jock."
And they also play Fifa, LOL.
what stats do you want, there is a limit! I am sure the stats are used combined for effect, eg weight, height, speed, wll all have an effect on jumping! so is it more stats or just how they are used that is the issue?
No it's not about including a Load of Stats that won't make any difference to the Gameplay.. It's just about turning the Arcade game into a Team-Game, a Collective game -and- the best way to do that is to Include even more Specific Stats in order to Define further Differences between each Type of Player.
For example, Instead of just having 4 Stats for Passing; Short Pass Accuracy, Short Pass Speed, Long Pass Accuracy, and Long Pass Speed.
Maybe Konami could replace those 4 Stats with more "Realistic" and Accurate Stats such as; Short Ground Pass, Short Lobbed Pass, Long Ground Pass, Long Lobbed Pass, Short Through Ball Technique, and Long Through Ball Technique.
Why you may ask?? Well..
The Short Through Ball Technique and Long Through Ball Technique are Stats meant to establish a Fundamental Difference between Playmakers (or Attacking Midfielders) and Second Strikers.
So, a Second Striker would have a good "Short Through Ball Technique" wich enables him with the ability to pass from Advanced Positions, etc, etc.. Or it could also be a Striker, take Romario for example, the guy would Not know what to do with the ball from a Deep Position (Midfield) -but- from advanced positions he (Romario) was great at making Short incisive Passes.
On the other hand, the "Long Through Ball Technique" is to determine a player's ability to Orchestrate the play from Deep Positions; like Juan Roman Riquelme, Zinedine Zidane, Carlos Valderrama, or Andrea Pirlo. The Stat would pretty much determine a player's "Vision" from Deep Positions in the Pitch -in- other words, it would determine if a player CAN or CANNOT Orchestrate Play from the Midfield.
And the rest of them; Short Ground Pass, Short Lobbed Pass, Long Ground Pass, Long Lobbed Pass.. you can see Why they are needed, right? David Beckham is great at "Long Ground Passes" -but- he (alike most English Players) is not very good nor comfortable at performing "Short Ground Passes" a lo Xavi (from Barcelona).
So, it's Not about Including a Load of Stats that aren't really needed.. it's just about Including the Stats that are Not properly covered by the current system -and- Passing and Moving Stats are extremely important. I think we need better "Passing Stats" and "Tactical Stats".
The more Realistic, the better.. and if anything, further Elaborating on the Passing Stats and the Tactical Stats would add a Significant bit of Realism into an already decent game.
2-Face
well my friend if what u are saying is correct then the only great things are the fluid movements and the nice graphics from far out.
well i can't wait for the demo to feel it for myself.
by anny chance did u get to play PES2009?
did u like it and how did it feel ?.
Yes i liked it. The movements are awesome. You really have to see it up close and the graphics are phenomenal. When you see a replay you are going to appreciate what KONAMI has done. Some may say "yeah but no mo-cap" but again FIFA has done a great job, but it isn't revolutionary. Allot of people say because of mo cap FIFA has better movements. I dare any one to get a real live video of a match and compare it to PES and FIFA and watch the BODY MOVEMENTS. In FIFA you might enjoy it from far, but up close PES is the winner. The way they run....excellent!! and my favorite, diving headers looks soooo realistic, if you just miss the ball you will really get up and go: Oooooooooooohhhh. out of excitement.
I think the passing system hasn't been implemented right in the Leipzig Demo. But i could be wrong. Not because it didn't do what i wanted but it just felt weird. Again I haven't bought 5 after my disappointment with 4. Many said it plays like 5. i have played 5 allot with friends and family and i must say pes 2009 feels different. it feels better. But again I did not had my own copy, So i could be wrong.
I for one did feel that ball physics were different but only visible at it's best in replay's. (due to fast pace not recognizable.) The pace is to high, i am wondering if the AI has time to think when the pace is that fast?? i think someone already mentioned that one on this forum.
I really hope allot of you get a chance to play it. The game is really good.
few things that need to bee sorted out:
- Goalkeepers below Top player are just a joke. They should have just made Top player and amateur if they want to keep the goalkeepers stupid. on Top player the goalkeepers are really good, something positive.
- Sometimes defenders help each other out, but more defenders means more stupidity. It makes it hard to get past the defenders but sometimes when you are in the box defenders run against each other, looks really stupid, when they touch each other they trip or fall to the ground.
- Pace should be slower, i want to think about what i am gonna do, not just pass, pass and pass and hope it goes in.
-Bicycle kicks seems unrealistic.
I have been waiting for a good pes and i think this is the one i was waiting for. I hope they sort everything out. And i hope the online option will work without any slowdowns.
Ok here lets put it this way:
PES5 is WAY better then FIFA 08.
I agree that KONAMI can do MUCH BETTER then their last couple of efforts.
I think it's unfair that people say PES has been stuck in the PES5 gameplay department when FIFA ( yes it 2008 ) has still never made a better game.
As far as I know, EA are great at "MARKETING". Every year they promise great improvements and a revolutionary football game. ( 2008 and EA still has not made a better football game then PES 5, and we are here picking on KONAMI? )
As far as I'm concerned, KONAMI can REPLICATE PES5 literally in the gameplay department and I will be happy with it.
This is just my opinion
However, KONAMI need to listen to their FANS and they need to make the next great football game for the 2010 outing and they can do it too.
Looking forward to PES 2009 though, from SOME of the videos I've seen, it has greatly improved.
@ Amateur I respect your opinion but you have not played FIFA 09. So it having all these stats and traits doesn't mean a thing. If you are to go by history, the odds for this FIFA to be as good as EA says it will are VERY slim. EA always makes promises and rarely meets them.
If FIFA 09 has gameplay thats about as good as PES, then I will be buying FIFA 09 this year. But that is something I have a very hard time to believe.
I agree with everything you said.. and this Thread wasn't just to have a go at PES09 -as- if anything, I'm looking forwards to PES09.
However, I wanted to make this Thread as a remainder of just How Outdated PES is today, they where lightyears ahead of FIFA in 2004 -with- a much more Advanced System of Stats and Special Abilities, and a Gameplay that made FIFA look like a joke.
This has changed through the years -as- Today, FIFA has improved on their Stats system and on their Gameplay -whereas- PES has stayed with the same exact Stats and Special Abilities, and with the same Gameplay; actually going back to PES5.
We all know Konami can do better... And again, we have done some Peticions, Ideas, etc, etc.. and never a single reply from Konami.. that can Improve.
They (Konami) have done it for this year -as- a versions of PES5 with good Graphics will keep us busy for at least a year. However, Where to after PES09??
So anyways, this thread was simply a remainder that IF Konami keeps up with the same Attitude, chances are they will loose the battle.
vietfan09
29-08-2008, 22:38
[pLEAES KONAMI are working so hard to Make pes 2009 is one to remember !!!
ONCE AGAIN PES 2009 would be the bestversion out there for all Version
Remember number 9 is in there is it sould be the best NUMBER 9
Yes i liked it. The movements are awesome. You really have to see it up close and the graphics are phenomenal. When you see a replay you are going to appreciate what KONAMI has done. Some may say "yeah but no mo-cap" but again FIFA has done a great job, but it isn't revolutionary. Allot of people say because of mo cap FIFA has better movements. I dare any one to get a real live video of a match and compare it to PES and FIFA and watch the BODY MOVEMENTS. In FIFA you might enjoy it from far, but up close PES is the winner. The way they run....excellent!! and my favorite, diving headers looks soooo realistic, if you just miss the ball you will really get up and go: Oooooooooooohhhh. out of excitement.
I think the passing system hasn't been implemented right in the Leipzig Demo. But i could be wrong. Not because it didn't do what i wanted but it just felt weird. Again I haven't bought 5 after my disappointment with 4. Many said it plays like 5. i have played 5 allot with friends and family and i must say pes 2009 feels different. it feels better. But again I did not had my own copy, So i could be wrong.
I for one did feel that ball physics were different but only visible at it's best in replay's. (due to fast pace not recognizable.) The pace is to high, i am wondering if the AI has time to think when the pace is that fast?? i think someone already mentioned that one on this forum.
I really hope allot of you get a chance to play it. The game is really good.
few things that need to bee sorted out:
- Goalkeepers below Top player are just a joke. They should have just made Top player and amateur if they want to keep the goalkeepers stupid. on Top player the goalkeepers are really good, something positive.
- Sometimes defenders help each other out, but more defenders means more stupidity. It makes it hard to get past the defenders but sometimes when you are in the box defenders run against each other, looks really stupid, when they touch each other they trip or fall to the ground.
- Pace should be slower, i want to think about what i am gonna do, not just pass, pass and pass and hope it goes in.
-Bicycle kicks seems unrealistic.
I have been waiting for a good pes and i think this is the one i was waiting for. I hope they sort everything out. And i hope the online option will work without any slowdowns.
when u say the pace was too fast do you mean it was even faster then PES08 or the same or a bit slower.
did the players feel solid and has the defending from your AI teammates improve.
and if you can sum up the biggest differences between PES 08 and PES09 what would they be ?
From the videos it seems slower (raise hopes).
From the videos it seems slower (raise hopes).
yes it does, espacially the one were SEABASS is being interviewed and that one has good graphics and nice annimations also.
so i was hoping that was what we could expect this year or better
freestyleh7
30-08-2008, 14:19
The gameplay needs to go back to pes 5 & 6 speed, Simple.
u could argue maybe pes 4 gameplay speed but maybe that was abit too fast, to be realistic
yes it does, espacially the one were SEABASS is being interviewed and that one has good graphics and nice annimations also.
so i was hoping that was what we could expect this year or better
Hopes has risen. The pace is so important in a game. Pes 08 was unplayable at times.
freestyleh7
30-08-2008, 14:31
Pes 08 was unplayable at times.
Well sead shaun7 couldnt agree more.
The defending is much improved. But Like i said sometimes there are to many in the box and the AI doesn't know what it is doing.
The big differences are
- presentation
- Improved AI
- Graphics and animation
- Ball physics
- Sometimes you run and the player doesn't take the ball with him (not a bug). that's why the d-pad is important, it is mainly to control the ball. Just running with the ball makes the player sometimes lose the ball.
- when you are running using the wings and you wanna pass it into the box it sometimes just goes out, because of to many power or not hitting the ball well
- If a foul is made the players run up to the Referee, which looks nice by the way
- improved collision system, some look weird and some looked fake, sometimes you just hit the foot and they just fall to the ground
- referee not fair in some situations but definitely better than in pes2008
the pace is too high, it is slower than in pes2008. but let's not forget and this is a personal opinion, I don't want a football game where you have to pass without thinking. I sometimes had the ball and i looked onto the map and the defender runs into me and i lose the ball. The pace should be slow like in real football and should adjust to the way the game is going.
But at least it's slower than 08 and it's looking like the speed of Pes 6.
The defending is much improved. But Like i said sometimes there are to many in the box and the AI doesn't know what it is doing.
The big differences are
- presentation
- Improved AI
- Graphics and animation
- Ball physics
- Sometimes you run and the player doesn't take the ball with him (not a bug). that's why the d-pad is important, it is mainly to control the ball. Just running with the ball makes the player sometimes lose the ball.
- when you are running using the wings and you wanna pass it into the box it sometimes just goes out, because of to many power or not hitting the ball well
- If a foul is made the players run up to the Referee, which looks nice by the way
- improved collision system, some look weird and some looked fake, sometimes you just hit the foot and they just fall to the ground
- referee not fair in some situations but definitely better than in pes2008
the pace is too high, it is slower than in pes2008. but let's not forget and this is a personal opinion, I don't want a football game where you have to pass without thinking. I sometimes had the ball and i looked onto the map and the defender runs into me and i lose the ball. The pace should be slow like in real football and should adjust to the way the game is going.
well for me all those things u just summed up sound very positive and i'm looking forward to the game much more,thanks.;)
But at least it's slower than 08 and it's looking like the speed of Pes 6.
You know, something that I have never heard in this Forum -and- something I really missed after PES5 was..
Do you remember in PES5, do you remember the Difference you Instantly Felt between a player with Average Dribbling Skills -and- a player with good Dribbling Accuracy??
I remember in PES5, I could Not Dribble Easily with Most Players -however- whenever I used a Skillful player such as Joaquin (Valencia) I could Notice a HUGE Difference in Movements and Dribbling Skills.
That Difference (or Feeling) was Nowhere to be found in PES6.. I hope PES 2009 re-introduces that same bit of Realism -because- Not everyone is Skillful enough to produce Amazing Runs on a Consistent basis.
Personally, that was One of the things I liked the most about PES5.. There was a clearly Defined Difference between Skillful Players and Average Players.
Plus, Defenders where better -and- this gave way to a more Balanced and Realistic Gameplay.
I hope PES09 truly is an Elaboration on PES5 -as- that was The best version of the series.
nikicampos
01-09-2008, 02:40
Well, if it plays like PES 5 and PES 6, the we are in for a good game of football to keep us playing all year long until 2010 for the new engine.
Well, if it plays like PES 5 and PES 6, the we are in for a good game of football to keep us playing all year long until 2010 for the new engine.
I would prefer it if it was Only about PES5, because PES5 is so much better than PES6.. I noticed it the other day, when I replaced PES6 with PES5 -and- I instantly noticed a difference in quality.. PES5 is clearly better.
And this makes me wonder, What happened with Konami?? What have they been doing for the past 3 years?? Besides fucking up what made PES5 a great game.. I don't see any Improvements besides the Graphics.
Anyways, would much rather have a PES5 with good Graphics -instead- of a mix between PES5 and PES6. Only time can tell what PES09 really is. Will it be another great version in its own right??
Or, is it just a version of PES5 with great Graphics?? Only Time can tell.. although it wouldn't hurt if this game surpasses PES5 in terms of Gameplay.
You know, something that I have never heard in this Forum -and- something I really missed after PES5 was..
Do you remember in PES5, do you remember the Difference you Instantly Felt between a player with Average Dribbling Skills -and- a player with good Dribbling Accuracy??
I remember in PES5, I could Not Dribble Easily with Most Players -however- whenever I used a Skillful player such as Joaquin (Valencia) I could Notice a HUGE Difference in Movements and Dribbling Skills.
That Difference (or Feeling) was Nowhere to be found in PES6.. I hope PES 2009 re-introduces that same bit of Realism -because- Not everyone is Skillful enough to produce Amazing Runs on a Consistent basis.
Personally, that was One of the things I liked the most about PES5.. There was a clearly Defined Difference between Skillful Players and Average Players.
Plus, Defenders where better -and- this gave way to a more Balanced and Realistic Gameplay.
I hope PES09 truly is an Elaboration on PES5 -as- that was The best version of the series.
Excactly. That's what I like about pes 5. The stats really did matter and the defending was awesome and realistic.
Excactly. That's what I like about pes 5. The stats really did matter and the defending was awesome and realistic.
This is why I think that Stats are very Important (if they are reflected in the Gameplay).. and Stats are very important because they establish Fundamental Differences between players.. In other words, it turns the Arcade game -into- a Collective Game.
I can Dribble with this player, but I cannot Defend with this player.. I can Defend with this player, but I cannot Attack effectively with that same player, etc, etc.. Those very Important differences where more Apparent in PES5.
Making PES5 the best version of the series.
I fail to understand Why Konami changed their direction with PES6 and PES08. Why replace a Realistic game with an Arcade game?? If anything, Konami should have kept going the same way, making PES even more Realistic with each passing year.
I'm really really looking forwards to a PES5 with even better Movements and much better Graphics. But somehow, that sounds too good to be true..
proevofan88
02-09-2008, 07:09
This is why I think that Stats are very Important (if they are reflected in the Gameplay).. and Stats are very important because they establish Fundamental Differences between players.. In other words, it turns the Arcade game -into- a Collective Game.
I can Dribble with this player, but I cannot Defend with this player.. I can Defend with this player, but I cannot Attack effectively with that same player, etc, etc.. Those very Important differences where more Apparent in PES5.
Making PES5 the best version of the series.
I fail to understand Why Konami changed their direction with PES6 and PES08. Why replace a Realistic game with an Arcade game?? If anything, Konami should have kept going the same way, making PES even more Realistic with each passing year.
I'm really really looking forwards to a PES5 with even better Movements and much better Graphics. But somehow, that sounds too good to be true..
Hmm I agree with all except PES6. That game did have good defense and it was very hard to score. And stats mattered. But in 2008 yeah it changed quite a lot but at its core it was still a fun game ( I have currently 118 hrs in it and I bought it in MARCH, most of it is exhibition tho with freinds ). But I think 2009 will just be something like a HUGE update to PES5.....which is very good to me. It can keep us waiting for 2010 easier. Although 2009 will probably make me forget about every other game!
Hmm I agree with all except PES6. That game did have good defense and it was very hard to score. And stats mattered. But in 2008 yeah it changed quite a lot but at its core it was still a fun game ( I have currently 118 hrs in it and I bought it in MARCH, most of it is exhibition tho with freinds ). But I think 2009 will just be something like a HUGE update to PES5.....which is very good to me. It can keep us waiting for 2010 easier. Although 2009 will probably make me forget about every other game!
PES6 is good, but I have to admit that after a couple of games of PES5.. I find PES6 a little Arcadey.. The mere Fact I can create a Goal whenever I want in PES6 is kind of Boring, creating Goals from Nothing should be much harder.
And Stats should be even more Apparent on the Gameplay, Particularly in Dribbling and Defending. Anyways, Overall I think PES6 is a good Football Sim -but- I think it actually was a step backwards from PES5 -as- PES5 was a clearly Superior Football Sim.
And then PES08 was another Set Back.. I want to see Konami getting past PES5.
proevofan88
02-09-2008, 08:36
PES6 is good, but I have to admit that after a couple of games of PES5.. I find PES6 a little Arcadey.. The mere Fact I can create a Goal whenever I want in PES6 is kind of Boring, creating Goals from Nothing should be much harder.
And Stats should be even more Apparent on the Gameplay, Particularly in Dribbling and Defending. Anyways, Overall I think PES6 is a good Football Sim -but- I think it actually was a step backwards from PES5 -as- PES5 was a clearly Superior Football Sim.
And then PES08 was another Set Back.. I want to see Konami getting past PES5.
They will with this one. Maybe not a HUGE step forward....but I have never owned PES5...so for me it will be like a NEW experience. I played PES5 at my friends house but not much. So PES 2009 will be a totally new experience for me. I JUST played some PES 2008....must say that game is at times pointless to play against the CPU. I mean EVERY deflection goes to the CPU its ridiculous. Then I play so well all game only to have the CPU score a couple of corner kicks. It pisses me off so bad. Against freinds PES 2008 is to me one of the BEST games to play. I like Call of Duty 4, but pes 2008 against freinds is so much fun. But against CPU its really annoying....I stopped playing master League because of that. Im waiting for 2009 to start another Master League
Pes 5 was the best but it had some faults like the shooting. The shooting in Pes 6 was better but the overal game Pes 5 was better. So a pes 5 with better shooting and animations sounds the best option for pes 09. The AI was also best in Pes 5 and 6. Pes 08 cheated so much that it makes you hate it.
They will with this one. Maybe not a HUGE step forward....but I have never owned PES5...so for me it will be like a NEW experience. I played PES5 at my friends house but not much. So PES 2009 will be a totally new experience for me. I JUST played some PES 2008....must say that game is at times pointless to play against the CPU. I mean EVERY deflection goes to the CPU its ridiculous. Then I play so well all game only to have the CPU score a couple of corner kicks. It pisses me off so bad. Against freinds PES 2008 is to me one of the BEST games to play. I like Call of Duty 4, but pes 2008 against freinds is so much fun. But against CPU its really annoying....I stopped playing master League because of that. Im waiting for 2009 to start another Master League
Yeah, PES08 haves the worst cheating AI, really annoying.. and also annoying?? The Fact that Konami can fix it.
Anyways, I have played PES6 so much that I can pretty much predict How and When the CPU will score a Goal. This is why I posted something Specifically about this Issue, it was about; Consistency, Mentality -and- a Confidence Level Gauge.
I think the Main problem with the Current System is that Once the Com decides wich side will have the Momentum on their favor, that is wich side will be favored more than the other.. Once the Com decides that, the Momentum keeps going the same way for the Whole Game.
That's extremely Unrealistic, Konami should develop a System capable of producing at least 30 "Momentum Shifts" per Match -and- of course, each Change (Shift) in Momentum should have a good Reason behind it.
Meaning that every Action Involving the AI should have a good Reason behind it. It would change the way we play the game, the way we approach each game -and- it would change for the better.
And again, what better way of Dictating the Shifts in Momentum than -via- reliable and precise Stats; Mentality and Consistency..
I think that Aspect of the game is Very Important -because- it is One of the Most Important Aspects about Real Football..
That's where Next Gen versions should be heading.. Improving Graphics, Elaborating on their Outdated system of Stats and Special Abilities -and- Elaborating on their Outdated system of "Momentum".
But regardless, a PES5 with good Graphics is something I could easily play for at least a Year.
proevofan88
03-09-2008, 07:09
Yeah, PES08 haves the worst cheating AI, really annoying.. and also annoying?? The Fact that Konami can fix it.
Anyways, I have played PES6 so much that I can pretty much predict How and When the CPU will score a Goal. This is why I posted something Specifically about this Issue, it was about; Consistency, Mentality -and- a Confidence Level Gauge.
I think the Main problem with the Current System is that Once the Com decides wich side will have the Momentum on their favor, that is wich side will be favored more than the other.. Once the Com decides that, the Momentum keeps going the same way for the Whole Game.
That's extremely Unrealistic, Konami should develop a System capable of producing at least 30 "Momentum Shifts" per Match -and- of course, each Change (Shift) in Momentum should have a good Reason behind it.
Meaning that every Action Involving the AI should have a good Reason behind it. It would change the way we play the game, the way we approach each game -and- it would change for the better.
And again, what better way of Dictating the Shifts in Momentum than -via- reliable and precise Stats; Mentality and Consistency..
I think that Aspect of the game is Very Important -because- it is One of the Most Important Aspects about Real Football..
That's where Next Gen versions should be heading.. Improving Graphics, Elaborating on their Outdated system of Stats and Special Abilities -and- Elaborating on their Outdated system of "Momentum".
But regardless, a PES5 with good Graphics is something I could easily play for at least a Year.
Yeah man thats where it needs to head to be honest. I really wonder sometimes why Konami have not created the best game ever, not FOOT BALL, but BEST game. They are masters when it comes to gameplay if they can only elaborate on everything they have in their games it would become the best easily. But they dont. Neither does EA. Nor do any other companies either.
As far as richest companies go I think Activision-Blizzard is now the richest and maybe Konami after them. EA might be second tho. But idk those are top three for sure.
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