View Full Version : Argentina
Meyyappan
20-11-2008, 13:17
Without doubt, football is by far the most popular sport in Argentina and has been for a long time before and after Maradona.
The Argentina national football team is the national football team of Argentina and is controlled by the Asociación del Fútbol Argentino (AFA). Argentina has the world record for most international titles won by any national team.
Argentina is one of the most successful national football teams in the world, and is currently seventh in the FIFA world rankings. The team has twice won the FIFA World Cup, in 1978 and 1986. Argentina has won the Copa América 14 times, a record shared with Uruguay, won the Confederations Cup in 1992 and the Olympic Football Tournament in 2004 and 2008.
Argentina and France are the only national teams which have won the three most important men's titles organized by FIFA: the World Cup, the Confederations Cup, and the Olympic tournament. They have both also won their respective continental championship (Copa América for Argentina, and UEFA European Football Championship for France).. However, it must be added that Argentina has won the Youth World Cup a record 6 times while France has never won that trophy, making Argentina the only country to have won all tournaments organized by FIFA to which it is eligible.
Currently the national coach is one who is considered by many as the greatest ever player and has won the player of the century award.
Their Home Kit:
http://www.kitbag.com/product_images/maxzoom/prd_maxzoom_kb-37134.jpg
I feel Argentina have a great future with lots of bright,young footballing talents coming through like:
Higuain,Gago,Banega,Messi,Lave zzi,Tevez........etc
What about the Home socks dammit!!
Meyyappan
20-11-2008, 13:22
Yeah,What about them?
mufcsean
20-11-2008, 13:23
Without doubt, football is by far the most popular sport in Argentina and has been for a long time before and after Maradona.
The Argentina national football team is the national football team of Argentina and is controlled by the Asociación del Fútbol Argentino (AFA). Argentina has the world record for most international titles won by any national team.
Argentina is one of the most successful national football teams in the world, and is currently seventh in the FIFA world rankings. The team has twice won the FIFA World Cup, in 1978 and 1986. Argentina has won the Copa América 14 times, a record shared with Uruguay, won the Confederations Cup in 1992 and the Olympic Football Tournament in 2004 and 2008.
Argentina and France are the only national teams which have won the three most important men's titles organized by FIFA: the World Cup, the Confederations Cup, and the Olympic tournament. They have both also won their respective continental championship (Copa América for Argentina, and UEFA European Football Championship for France).. However, it must be added that Argentina has won the Youth World Cup a record 6 times while France has never won that trophy, making Argentina the only country to have won all tournaments organized by FIFA to which it is eligible.
Currently the national coach is one who is considered by many as the greatest ever player and has won the player of the century award.
Their Home Kit:
http://www.soccer10shop.com/images/argentina2006kidsjersey.jpg
I feel Argentina have a great future with lots of bright,young footballing talents coming through like:
Higuain,Gago,Banega,Messi,Lave ssi,Tevez........etc
That is the wrong shirt, that is an old one
Meyyappan
20-11-2008, 13:34
That is the wrong shirt, that is an old one
Oh!Really i am sorry,i remebered them wearing it in WC2006,searched for its pic and put it up here,can anyone help me find a current one?
mufcsean
20-11-2008, 13:36
http://www.kitbag.com/stores/kitbag_4_5/football/product_details.aspx?pid=37134&cid=56
Dragonfly
20-11-2008, 13:38
I love the Argentina tops. I've got the new home shirt.
I'm looking forward to the World Cup even more, now Maradona is boss. I thought you were favourites to win it before he took the job, but now I'm convinced you will win it. It just has to be that Maradona wins the World Cup once again. :D
I love the Argentina tops. I've got the new home shirt.
I'm looking forward to the World Cup even more, now Maradona is boss. I thought you were favourites to win it before he took the job, but now I'm convinced you will win it. It just has to be that Maradona wins the World Cup once again. :D
Bit premature mate. Everyone was tipping them in the last World Cup, although by 2010, their squad should look very tasty. Attacking wise at least.
Meyyappan
20-11-2008, 15:39
Bit premature mate. Everyone was tipping them in the last World Cup, although by 2010, their squad should look very tasty. Attacking wise at least.
Yep.Defensively they have Cambiasso,Masherano,Milito,Hei nze,Samuel...........
Solid enough to get a world cup seeing their attacking choice of
Higuain,Gago,Banega,Messi,Lave zzi,Maxi Rodriquez,Tevez,Veron,Riquelme ,Guitirez and loads more class players.
Brazil pulled it in 2002 with Cafu and Roberto Carlos in defence.
I think we should get some Argentinian Kids as it seems we have none,Banega would fit the bill properly.
http://www.kitbag.com/stores/kitbag_4_5/football/product_details.aspx?pid=37134&cid=56
Thanks.
Without doubt, football is by far the most popular sport in Argentina and has been for a long time before and after Maradona.
The Argentina national football team is the national football team of Argentina and is controlled by the Asociación del Fútbol Argentino (AFA). Argentina has the world record for most international titles won by any national team.
Argentina is one of the most successful national football teams in the world, and is currently seventh in the FIFA world rankings. The team has twice won the FIFA World Cup, in 1978 and 1986. Argentina has won the Copa América 14 times, a record shared with Uruguay, won the Confederations Cup in 1992 and the Olympic Football Tournament in 2004 and 2008.
Argentina and France are the only national teams which have won the three most important men's titles organized by FIFA: the World Cup, the Confederations Cup, and the Olympic tournament. They have both also won their respective continental championship (Copa América for Argentina, and UEFA European Football Championship for France).. However, it must be added that Argentina has won the Youth World Cup a record 6 times while France has never won that trophy, making Argentina the only country to have won all tournaments organized by FIFA to which it is eligible.
Currently the national coach is one who is considered by many as the greatest ever player and has won the player of the century award.
Their Home Kit:
http://www.kitbag.com/product_images/maxzoom/prd_maxzoom_kb-37134.jpg
I feel Argentina have a great future with lots of bright,young footballing talents coming through like:
Higuain,Gago,Banega,Messi,Lave zzi,Tevez........etc
I feel that Argentina haves some great individuals that play very well for their respective Clubs.. But I don't see how Argentina haves a great future. Because yeah, they do have some great talent, but as a TEAM they are not very good.
They have no Integrity.
Higuain, Gago, Banega, Messi, Lavezzi, Tevez, Mascherano -- Are they playing for the TEAM, or for themselves??
In their last match against France they started chanting:
"Have to give hope, have to give hope, Messi is already here, don't call anyone else"
As any Argentina Fan will know, this was an obvious and direct shot at Riquelme. Cowardly aimed. Riquelme's own team-mates took a shot at him when he was down, and forced him into International Retirement.
As a result Riquelme blamed Maradona for his exit, but BOTH Maradona and Riquelme know full well the Reasons behind his exit -- The dressing room was divided, This Argentina haves no Integrity, everyone plays for their own glory.
Riquelme decided to further damage his reputation, instead of expressing the real reason for his departure. This way Riquelme or Maradona take the blame, but not the dressing room.
The damage is done and it's irreversible.. Riquelme will not play for Argentina again. But in the process the "dressing room" showed their real colors, the real conflict within the team.
It was very unfortunate that they allowed One Individual to take all the blame for their disappointments on so many occasions.. BUT it is even more unfortunate that they capitalize on that blame. They turned against him, they turned him into a "scapegoat" to justify their consistent shortcomings.
Was there any necessity at all to have such a coward shot at Riquelme? What are they trying to prove?
It is an embarrassment to know that the dressing room forced one of their own out. And in such a public and coward manner. They didn't even took responsibility for it, Maradona did.
Argentina haves the potential to be a great team, but that's about it, they will never play to their potential. Too much Overrated EGO in that dressing room.
They disposed of Juan Roman Riquelme today, but "New Conflicts" will soon find their way into Maradona's dressing room.
Well I'm sorry to you, but Riquelme is no saint. If getting rid of him brings the Argentine dressing room together, than that is the right thing to do. Villarreal is good example of this and even Spain with Raul.
If someone is bringing the dressing room down, no matter how good he is, he must leave.
Well I'm sorry to you, but Riquelme is no saint. If getting rid of him brings the Argentine dressing room together, than that is the right thing to do. Villarreal is good example of this and even Spain with Raul.
If someone is bringing the dressing room down, no matter how good he is, he must leave.
That's exactly my point, it won't bring them together.. Now "New Conflicts" will surface, that's how this works.
Sure, maybe they win 5 or 6 games on the string.. but eventually, they will fall to their usual habit. Without Integrity there is no stability within a Team, there is no consistency.
Riquelme wasn't bringing the dressing room down, that was evident on the pitch, when it mattered. Riquelme was just an excuse, a justification.
The dressing room was just frustrated with the results, and they vented their frustration on an easy target who's been taken most of the blame, undeservedly, for years -- Riquelme.
Who will be the next to take the blame??
They where happy with the fact that Riquelme took most if not all of the blame for their disappointment in the 2006 World Cup and Copa America.
And to add insult to injury, they capitalized on that for their own personal gain.
This is why the Argentina National Team is such a disappointment. Because they play for themselves, not for the shirt.
They where Not good enough to work through their differences with Riquelme -FOR- the benefit of the TEAM.
On the other hand, Argentina has been very successful in the "Youth World Cup" or "FIFA U-20 World Cup" because those teams still have talented individuals with some decency and integrity intact. Those U-20 teams are group of players that know each other and know how to take their differences aside and work as a team.
The U-20 Argentina is probably a better TEAM than Senior Argentina. Even without established "superstars".
The Villarreal Case was very different to the conflict within the Argentina dressing room. Villarreal players showed a lot more decency as team-mates.
As for Spain, Spanish players never had such a coward and public shot at Raul. They have Integrity and codes of their own, plus most of them play the same brand of Football in the Spanish La Liga.
They won the EURO without Raul and Joaquin. But not one of them started chanting against Raul or Joaquin. Because they have decency and integrity.
And when they loose, they all take the blame.. the blame isn't reserved for Xavi or Raul or Torres, they don't allow that, everyone within the group shares the blame.
Unlike Argentina.
We'll see how it all works out for Argentina soon enough.
Your love for Riquelme's skills, has truly blinded your senses.
For all you know, they tried to ask that diva to come off it, but he told them to suck his dick.
Riquelme's over-sized ego led to his own downfall.
He's fucking with Messi must have also tipped the scales. No one fucks with Lionel and gets away with it. :lol:
Now the real Maestro will inherit the 10. :happy:
Your love for Riquelme's skills, has truly blinded your senses.
For all you know, they tried to ask that diva to come off it, but he told them to suck his dick.
Riquelme's over-sized ego led to his own downfall.
He's fucking with Messi must have also tipped the scales. No one fucks with Lionel and gets away with it. :lol:
Now the real Maestro will inherit the 10. :happy:
It was the players no one else.. and I'm pretty sure I'm not blinded by anything.
Argentina is a team full of spoiled EGOS. And I'm not particularly fond of Riquelme as a person, but fact remains that Riquelme has never taken a PUBLIC shot at Leo Messi or any other of his national team-mates.
And I don't mean to offend you or anything.. but really, do you actually think Riquelme would do that?? It's a ridiculous suggestion IMO.
It makes no sense whatsoever to me.. Even more so considering that Leo Messi clearly doesn't and has never gotten along with him. And also considering that the Argentine Players chanted:
"We already have Messi, we are all here, don't call anyone else!!!".
To whom do you think that was aimed ??
Sebastian Veron was the only player who showed a little bit of decency and honesty when he said that the "Dressing room forced Roman out".
That's exactly what happened.
Maradona knows that, Riquelme obviously knows that, and chances are that most people in Argentina know that. But it is much more convenient for Argentina this way.
Riquelme ends up looking like the "conflictive" player, Maradona ends up looking cool.. and the dressing room takes no responsibility for anything.
Plus the press goes crazy with it, making their own twist to everything, probably going back to the conflict between Riquelme and Pellegrini. It's all good for the press.
But problems like this do not just fade away like that, it is a habit, and new conflicts will find their way into this team. Having disposed of Riquelme, new conflicts will find their way into Maradona's dressing room.
Nobody fucks with Leo Messi?? He is untouchable? That is a HUGE PROBLEM. There you have the next big conflict within the Argentina Dressing Room.
Be it Messi's individualism, or Maradona's lack of experience as a coach. Or that Riquelme deserted them and they didn't find a proper replacement. Someone will take the blame for the Team's shortcomings.
Argentina haves no TEAM, a bunch of players playing for themselves and not for the shirt. Who are not even capable of working through some differences for the Team's benefit.
It is to be expected considering how players change teams nowadays. There's no passion for the shirt anymore, now it's about the money, about how much "stock" a player holds.
The problem with Argentina is that, when they loose it is Riquelme's fault. Or like in World Cup 2002, it was all Veron's fault. They always find themselves a "scapegoat". Someone to take the blame for the rest of the Team.
That's not something a Team with Integrity would do.
How many times didn't Zidane put himself ahead of France?? How many times did he decided to do something stupid that would ultimately cost the team big time? More than Once to say the least.
But not once did anyone within the French Team publicly had a go at Zinedine Zidane.
Another example would be Portugal, when they failed as favorites, the team shared responsibility for the disappointment. It wasn't Luis Figo's fault because "Luis Figo disappeared when it mattered the most".
Bottom Line is that Argentina can have the best individuals in the world, but they will not win anything.. for obvious reasons.
I'm already thinking about WHO will take the blame for Argentina's "failure" in World Cup 2010.
Hopefully they'll show some great displays in the process.. which is always good for the fans. But no Titles.
There's something about Riquelme's attitude that the squad didn't like, and i'll bet the young ones didn't make a move without Zanetti and the rest of the elders' consent. I'd also wager that they approached Roman and tried to sort out whatever problem they had with him, but he, clearly, didn't respond well, so they took drastic measures, albeit dishonorable.
My gues is that Maradona tried to convince Riquelme to give Messi the 10, but Roman refused, so the fat cunt had his players do the dirty work.
There's something about Riquelme's attitude that the squad didn't like, and i'll bet the young ones didn't make a move without Zanetti and the rest of the elders' consent. I'd also wager that they approached Roman and tried to sort out whatever problem they had with him, but he, clearly, didn't respond well, so they took drastic measures, albeit dishonorable.
My gues is that Maradona tried to convince Riquelme to give Messi the 10, but Roman refused, so the fat cunt had his players do the dirty work.
That could very well be.. all I'm saying is that, there was no necessity to go so low.
Riquelme may not be the most easy person to go along with, but he has never gone PUBLIC against any of his team-mates. Not even against Louis Van Gaal who never gave him a chance with Barcelona.
I think the whole "Riquelme is conflictive" BS is BS by the press, and by players who want his position.. Roman is an easy target after all, and his position is a coveted one.
It doesn't surprised me that for whatever reasons, the players had a very coward and low shot at Riquelme when Riquelme was down.
And this isn't the 1st time it happens, it also happened with Sebastian Veron and other players.
And actually, according to reliable sources, Maradona actually really tried to maintain Riquelme in the Team. But it seems that the differences (or relationship) between Riquelme and the younger ones had reached a point where the conflict couldn't be patched.
Maybe that wasn't what really happened, but the ones with the story are usually very accurate.
Bottom Line is that Argentina is a Team with great potential, but unfortunately they are not capable of putting their differences aside and play for the TEAM benefit.
Without principles Argentina are winning nothing, they can have a Team full of established European "superstars".. but they won't win any titles.
It's always the same story with Argentina, in 2002 they had one of the best teams ever, they where favorites, and yet they got eliminated in the Group Stage.
Sebastian Veron took the blame for that.
In 2006 they had an Overrated Team, a shaky and unreliable Defence, but they where cruising in the 1st rounds of the competition.. and then when it mattered Riquelme disappeared against Germany.
And it was Riquelme's fault alone, it had nothing to do with the FACT that Riquelme barely got hold of the ball.
In 2010 they will have the world's best Leo Messi, with Aguero, with Tevez, with Mascherano, etc, etc.. They will "fail" again, for the same reasons as before.
In the meantime, the U-20 Argentina keeps winning U-20 World Cups. With "lesser" players.
I like Riquelme but I watched Argentina's last game against France and they looked good without him. They had Mascherano and Gago in the centre of midfield with Maxi and Jonas out wide, the balance was very good. There was a good blend of pace, energy, creativity and defensive stability. This with Aguero and Messi up top created movement France could not handle. The tempo was faster than it would be with Riquelme playing and France could not live with Argentina, Messi and Jonas especially.
There is no doubt Riquelme is a great player, the best of his type possibly. I do think that to get the best out of him you have to give him the team. When you have the individual quality Agentina have going forward getting the best out of Riquelme at the cost of those players makes no sense.
The way forward for them is that same team that played France but put Cambiasso in for Gago and choose any two from Aguero/Tevez/Messi up top. If they need a playmaker Veron or Aimar could do the job.
just because argentinas traditional style is playing with a playmaker doesnt mean they always have to play with one argentina looks good without riquelme and they should keep playing like that
riquelme is a boca player and thats all
I like Riquelme but I watched Argentina's last game against France and they looked good without him. They had Mascherano and Gago in the centre of midfield with Maxi and Jonas out wide, the balance was very good. There was a good blend of pace, energy, creativity and defensive stability. This with Aguero and Messi up top created movement France could not handle. The tempo was faster than it would be with Riquelme playing and France could not live with Argentina, Messi and Jonas especially.
There is no doubt Riquelme is a great player, the best of his type possibly. I do think that to get the best out of him you have to give him the team. When you have the individual quality Agentina have going forward getting the best out of Riquelme at the cost of those players makes no sense.
The way forward for them is that same team that played France but put Cambiasso in for Gago and choose any two from Aguero/Tevez/Messi up top. If they need a playmaker Veron or Aimar could do the job.
France isn't a good Team anymore, any average team can look good against France.
Let's see how they play against Spain, or Brazil, or Italy, or Germany -without- Riquelme.
Veron isn't good enough, long ball, after long ball, after long ball, time after time after time. That doesn't works against world class opposition.
And Aimar is also Not good enough, nor consistent enough, always injured.
Riquelme has been really good with Argentina, it's a shame that Argentina's Defending has been shaky and unreliable. Which cost them in the 2006 World Cup and 2007 Copa America.
As for Aguero and Messi, great players for their respective clubs..
The Tempo will definitely be faster with the likes of Messi and Aguero.. But when they need to actually hold possession, maybe slow down the tempo, organize and dictate play smartly -- nobody knows how to do that in Argentina. In fact, nobody knows how to do that better than Riquelme.
In my opinion having Messi with Aguero, with Tevez -will- make Argentina a bit predictable in the Long Run. I don't think This Argentina is a great TEAM.
They have nothing on Spain.
France isn't a good Team anymore, any average team can look good against France.
Let's see how they play against Spain, or Brazil, or Italy, or Germany -without- Riquelme.
France are not that good anymore but Argentina did destroy them, it was one of the best performances I've seen this season. I suppose it was a freindly and this team are still unproven.
Veron isn't good enough, long ball, after long ball, after long ball, time after time after time. That doesn't works against world class opposition.
And Aimar is also Not good enough, nor consistent enough, always injured.
Veron is still a good playmaker capable of playing simple, he did very well at the Copa America alongside Riquelme. And an onform Aimar is one of the best number 10 around. I'm not saying either should start but they are still very capable at International level.
The Tempo will definitely be faster with the likes of Messi and Aguero.. But when they need to actually hold possession, maybe slow down the tempo, organize and dictate play smartly -- nobody knows how to do that in Argentina. In fact, nobody knows how to do that better than Riquelme. Its true you need to be able to play at both a high and low tempo. With Riquelme they we able to play slow then in moments he could do a one two and the game would open up. Without Riquelme they could do the same there just is no main focus where the ball would go, which has its advantages.
There are many players like Cambiasso and Gago are very intelligent on the ball and will keep possesion and control the tempo if needed.
In my opinion having Messi with Aguero, with Tevez -will- make Argentina a bit predictable in the Long Run. I don't think This Argentina is a great TEAM.
They have nothing on Spain. I agree all three should not play together. For me it has to be Messi and one of Aguero/Tevez/Lavezzi etc. I feel Messi and Aguero do work together best.
As for having nothing on Spain well they are the number 1 team at the moment. I will say that they always had the talent it was just about finding the right balance and getting the right harmony. As has been highlighted Raul's departure is quite similar to this situation with Riquelme, Argentina could be the new Spain.
It could be... but really, Raul never really impressed me with Spain. Whereas on the other hand, Riquelme has gave plenty of masterful performances with the Argentina shirt.
As for Gago or Cambiasso dictating play.. I just find that Inaccurate on so many levels. They do Not come close to Riquelme's Passing. Riquelme can create a Killer Ball out of nothing.
Gago and Cambiasso are decent passers of the ball, but nowhere near riquelme in this respect.
Plus on the ball, both Cambiasso and Gago are effort, but not Natural talent. Riquelme haves much more Technique than either of them, and he can Shot Free Kicks better than any Argentine player.
I just don't think it's comparable with the departure of Raul from Spain, because Raul never really showed his true worth with Spain.
Riquelme's retirement was because his Team-Mates are not willing to work through some differences FOR the benefit of the TEAM.
If the players in your Team cannot do that, you have problems. And Argentina haves problems.. today they disposed of Riquelme, but New Conflicts will find their way into Maradona's dressing room soon enough.
P.S - Gonzalo Higuain with Messi and Aguero ??
Oh god please please stop with the Riquelme stuff.
You're about to make a good point and then you have to pimp Riquelme's name again.
Oh god please please stop with the Riquelme stuff.
Yes, please!
Jesus will you shut up about Riquelme. :lol:
Since this is Argentina and not Barcelona FC where talking about.. and since Argentina's System depends on a Number 10. It seems quite ridiculous Not to talk about Riquelme right now.
But I'm sure you guys know better.
Other than that, judging by the last 3 replies above mine, I can see that you guys are full of opinions about the Argentine National team.
Amateur, you seem to think Argentina are all about Riquelme and frankly they aren't. There are other players to talk about, especially as he's "retired". He made the choice, I don't care why, and its time to move on.
Stop being such a bitch about it all.
Fair enough.. that's Football I guess.
But I simply don't get why some guys get so annoyed by that. I'm just saying that, they disposed of Riquelme, and that they went PUBLIC against Riquelme, and that a TEAM with integrity would never go so low.
I never said that Argentina was all about Riquelme. But I did said, which is true, that Riquelme took most of the blame for the rest of his team-mates. And his team-mates allowed that, and then eventually went public against him and forced him out.
I just think that was very nasty, I particularly don't like the fact that they took no responsibility for it.. and I've lost a lot of interest in the Argentine National Team because of it.
You never win or loose matches because of One Individual.. and Maradona should remember that he was Unable to score in the 86 Final, his lesser known Team-Mates had to dig in and help because their Number 10 was being kicked out of the game.
On the other hand, with Juan Roman Riquelme, when the tough games came up, he was marked heavily, and the rest of his Team-Mates never looked capable of playing their role like they are expected in this Type of Matches.
Other than that, I think Gonzalo Higuain deserves to be there. And I hope to see some great performances from them.
Montenegro got the 10 in the end. :lol:
Humble Lionel retains the 18.
At the end, Messi will use the 10, Usul. At the beggining, Montenegro was going to use it, but in the news today, says that Maradona will offer the 10 to Lio.
It was only Venezuela but Argentina looked very good in spells.
Messi in the number 10 was amazing, the goal he could have scored at the end of the game would have been ridiculous. He does amazing things so often yet when he beats 4 defenders in one run I'm still left in awe.
They started without a playmaker but when Veron came on he kept the ball moving and linked up well with Messi. Life without Riquelme could be successful.
It was only Venezuela but Argentina looked very good in spells.
Messi in the number 10 was amazing, the goal he could have scored at the end of the game would have been ridiculous. He does amazing things so often yet when he beats 4 defenders in one run I'm still left in awe.
They started without a playmaker but when Veron came on he kept the ball moving and linked up well with Messi. Life without Riquelme could be successful.
It was only Venezuela...
I still remember the beating that Riquelme and Messi and Co gave to Venezuela a couple years back.
Riquelme's absence will not go unnoticed against Teams of better class; Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain..
As for Veron, he is a world class midfielder, so it is no surprise that he linked well with Messi. But in my opinion, Veron lacks that something that makes the difference against world class opposition, countless Long Ball Tactics do not work against teams who know how to sit back.
This is Football, today they will say that they are better off without Riquelme. But after a few off-games against good opposition, the opinion will change.
But it's good that they are giving good performances, good for the group and for Football.
It would be a shame if Messi never plays to his potential with Argentina. I don't really care if Argentina wins the World Cup, as I think The Champions Medal is highly overrated.. but I hope they can play to their potential, and whatever happens happens.
So with that in mind, I hope all goes well for Argentina and Messi.
Riquelme's absence will not go unnoticed against Teams of better class; Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain..
You say this as if his presence was felt when they played teams of this calibre.
You say this as if his presence was felt when they played teams of this calibre.
Well, if you knew anything about Riquelme, you'd know that he is renowned for giving great performances against world class opposition -or- completely shutting down from the game.
And yes, his presence was definitely felt when they played teams of this calibre. Which judging by your comments, you wouldn't know about, because you clearly haven't seen much of Riquelme have you??
His presence will be felt when they need someone to feed the ball to Aguero and Messi -and- all they have is Veron or D'Alessandro. Both great playmakers, but not good enough against world class opposition, that much is clear after their European careers.
Well, if you knew anything about Riquelme, you'd know that he is renowned for giving great performances against world class opposition -or- completely shutting down from the game.
And yes, his presence was definitely felt when they played teams of this calibre. Which judging by your comments, you wouldn't know about, because you clearly haven't seen much of Riquelme have you??
His presence will be felt when they need someone to feed the ball to Aguero and Messi -and- all they have is Veron or D'Alessandro. Both great playmakers, but not good enough against world class opposition, that much is clear after their European careers.
You make it sound as though if/when Argenitna lose to a big team, had Riquelme have played it would never have happened.
Fact is, Argenitna fuck it up more often than not in tournaments so although being without Riquelme means they're without a capable player who has certain specialist abilities, his absence needs to stop being brought up so often because there is no guarantee he would've done any better in that particular match. Clearly it'll come up now and then but what's happening here is a lot more than now and then.
I agree with you about Veron, I've always thought that of him.
The rudeness of your above post (second paragraph) is your near-obsessive defensive nature when dealing with any critical posts of Riquelme who I believe I, and others, have politely asked you to stop going on about. Argentina just won 4-0 and you've managed to twist it back to Riquelme. Is this going to happen after every single game Argentina play without him?
It was only Venezuela...
I still remember the beating that Riquelme and Messi and Co gave to Venezuela a couple years back.
Riquelme's absence will not go unnoticed against Teams of better class; Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain..
As for Veron, he is a world class midfielder, so it is no surprise that he linked well with Messi. But in my opinion, Veron lacks that something that makes the difference against world class opposition, countless Long Ball Tactics do not work against teams who know how to sit back.
This is Football, today they will say that they are better off without Riquelme. But after a few off-games against good opposition, the opinion will change.
But it's good that they are giving good performances, good for the group and for Football.
It would be a shame if Messi never plays to his potential with Argentina. I don't really care if Argentina wins the World Cup, as I think The Champions Medal is highly overrated.. but I hope they can play to their potential, and whatever happens happens.
So with that in mind, I hope all goes well for Argentina and Messi.
We will have to wait and see Argentina against big teams. I'm not doubting the quality of Riquelme but I do believe Argentina have more than enough attacking quality to do well without him. And in Messi they have thier best player since Maradona, the future looks good.
Regarding that Veron comment I don't know if hes been readin yor posts but he never made one long ball yesterday. Some of his one touch play was very good and he infact raised the level of performance of all his teammates.
Well, if you knew anything about Riquelme, you'd know that he is renowned for giving great performances against world class opposition -or- completely shutting down from the game.
And yes, his presence was definitely felt when they played teams of this calibre. Which judging by your comments, you wouldn't know about, because you clearly haven't seen much of Riquelme have you??
His presence will be felt when they need someone to feed the ball to Aguero and Messi -and- all they have is Veron or D'Alessandro. Both great playmakers, but not good enough against world class opposition, that much is clear after their European careers.
Let's look back on the Argentina's last games in the last two tournaments - Germany in 2006 and Brazil in 2007.
They had built up incredible momentum and squashed inferior teams, with Riquelme starring in these. Then a big boy comes along and what happens? Riquelme does fuck all. Fuck all, Amateur.
He wasn't controlling and dictating games like he was doing agaisnt Serbia and the like. Instead his presence made the team look like they were a man down.
So I think you have the nerve to say that Argentina only done well without Riquelme because it was against Venezuela, when this is the exact same situation that they were in when Riquelme was playing for them.
I've said before that I am a Riquelme fan and I love to watch him play. But he does turn up for big games.
Let's look back on the Argentina's last games in the last two tournaments - Germany in 2006 and Brazil in 2007.
They had built up incredible momentum and squashed inferior teams, with Riquelme starring in these. Then a big boy comes along and what happens? Riquelme does fuck all. Fuck all, Amateur.
He wasn't controlling and dictating games like he was doing agaisnt Serbia and the like. Instead his presence made the team look like they were a man down.
So I think you have the nerve to say that Argentina only done well without Riquelme because it was against Venezuela, when this is the exact same situation that they were in when Riquelme was playing for them.
I've said before that I am a Riquelme fan and I love to watch him play. But he does not turn up for big games.
:cool:
Let's look back on the Argentina's last games in the last two tournaments - Germany in 2006 and Brazil in 2007.
They had built up incredible momentum and squashed inferior teams, with Riquelme starring in these. Then a big boy comes along and what happens? Riquelme does fuck all. Fuck all, Amateur.
He wasn't controlling and dictating games like he was doing agaisnt Serbia and the like. Instead his presence made the team look like they were a man down.
So I think you have the nerve to say that Argentina only done well without Riquelme because it was against Venezuela, when this is the exact same situation that they were in when Riquelme was playing for them.
I've said before that I am a Riquelme fan and I love to watch him play. But he does turn up for big games.
You have picked two occassions and used that to form an opinion. As for that Germany game when the ref performs like he did on that day Riquelme and Argentina didn't really have a chance. You are right Riquelme didn't play well against Brazil but, as Amateur has stated in the past, where were the rest of his teammates? A player like Riquelme is useless if his teammates do not get him the ball quickly.
He can play against top class opposition of this there is no doubt, there are countless examples of him doing this for both club and country. I would question if he is good at performing under pressure though. He seems like the kind of player to sulk when things don't go his way instead of just getting on with the job.
Anyway, those unfortunate enough to miss Messi's performance against Venezuela here it is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAzTcg71NP4
Let's look back on the Argentina's last games in the last two tournaments - Germany in 2006 and Brazil in 2007.
They had built up incredible momentum and squashed inferior teams, with Riquelme starring in these. Then a big boy comes along and what happens? Riquelme does fuck all. Fuck all, Amateur.
He wasn't controlling and dictating games like he was doing agaisnt Serbia and the like. Instead his presence made the team look like they were a man down.
So I think you have the nerve to say that Argentina only done well without Riquelme because it was against Venezuela, when this is the exact same situation that they were in when Riquelme was playing for them.
I've said before that I am a Riquelme fan and I love to watch him play. But he does turn up for big games.
I tend to completely ignore this type of nonsense. Watch the games, and then talk.
A Playmaker DEPENDS ENTIRELY on a Defensive Midfielder. Against Germany he didn't see much of the ball, against Brazil in the Copa America Final he barely even got hold of the ball.
If Riquelme doesn't gets the ball, he will do nothing. Which is exactly what happened against Germany, and against Brazil in the Copa America Final. This is WHY Classic Players like Riquelme are disappearing from the game.
Although, I have to say that WITH RIQUELME, Argentina was winning 1-0 against Germany, the Goal was Assisted by Riquelme. And it wasn't until Riquelme got benched, and Cambiasso started to play -that- Germany managed to draw the game, and eventually won in Penalties.
Imagine France with Zidane, imagine that Makelele and Vieira are having a crappy game. Do you think Zidane will do much with the ball??
You never win or loose because of one individual. In the tough games Argentina knew that Riquelme would be tightly marked, and yet nobody else seemed capable of playing their part in this type of match.
In the 1986 Final, Maradona was getting kicked out of the game, but his team-mates played their part, and Maradona managed to slip a pass to one of his forwards.
This never happened with Riquelme in any important game. Argentina had a clear Riquelme-Dependence.. and they will probably fall into their usual habit now, it will be Messi-Dependency.
As far as I'm concerned, Riquelme in his prime is definitely one of the best player's I've ever seen... I feel for the many Football Fans that are unable of appreciating Riquelme or his style of play.
uA - 1905
30-03-2009, 17:09
Amateur are you Riquelme in disguise?
You tell me watch the games and then talk. Well name me three Argentina games against top opposition where Juan Roman Riquelme has dominated, as he does against the lesser teams. I will search for these games, watch these games and then come back to this thread, admit I was wrong and apologise to you.
Until then, I'm going to stick with my claim that Riquelme fails to deliver against top sides.
His assist against Germany was a corner that Ayala headed in. Big deal. He got subbed off from that game because he didn't dominate the game as he had done in the game against Serbia. Of course you will continue state the reason for this was lack service to him. It's the easy way out for a blind fan, rather than admitting that he was not intelligent enough to create space for himself or his team mates. But whatever.
Anyway, I look forward to watching the three games that you will name in your next post.
Against World Class opposition??
With Boca Juniors, Copa Intercontinental, against Del Bosque's Real Madrid.. Fernando Hierro, Roberto Carlos in his prime, Makelele in his prime, Raul in his prime, Luis Figo in his prime, Morientes, etc, etc..
Who was the man of the match?? Riquelme, embarrassed Makelele all game long. Who won the game?? Boca Juniors.
This was The Intercontinental Cup. Champions League Champions vs Copa Libertadores Champions. The best vs The best. And yes, Real Madrid was expected to win easily.
With Villarreal he consistently gave great performances against Barcelona.. and was clearly one of the Top Players in La Liga for 3 years running.
Against Inter Milan in the Champions League Quarter-Finals, is one of the best performances I have ever seen from anyone. Completely dominated, and gave the assist for the Goal that got them through to the Semi-Finals.
In the 1st game against Arsenal he was blatantly kicked out of the game. Wenger played Anti-Football against Riquelme, not typical of Arsenal or Wenger. But it worked wonders in England, where the REF somehow didn't see anything wrong.
In the 2nd game against Arsenal, where the REF actually didn't allowed for Riquelme to be kicked all game long, he gave a pretty good display. But of course all everyone remembers is him failing to convert a penalty kick.
With Argentina, I remember watching a game against England, where Riquelme played an almost perfect game. Argentina was winning 1-0, the result seemingly in the bag, Riquelme was substituted with less than 10 minutes left on the clock -and- England ended winning that game 2-1.
Against Brazil he has gave a couple of great performances, he also scored an awesome goal against Brazil once.
Something that people do not know about Brazil.. yeah they play beautiful attacking football -BUT- when they do Not have possession of the ball, they play Anti-Football tactics.
Against Argentina, they always, always, kicked Riquelme.. always.
In the 1994 Final, Roberto Baggio was also blatantly kicked.. even when he didn't have the ball.
You can actually see this pattern since always, Brazil has used the same Defensive Tactics since Pele played. They always kick the best player of the opposition. But most fans overlook this, because of the colorful attacking.
Anyways...
In the World Cup against Serbia Montenegro.. they had the best Defence in the qualifying stages, and yet they couldn't deal with Riquelme's passing and movement.
Ivory Coast ain't no picnic either.
There are a lot of examples actually.. but because Europeans only consider Brazil and Argentina as "world class"... Riquelme has gave great performances against all the National Teams in South America. And he hasn't played that much against European Teams.
Which is why so many IGNORANT fans do say that Riquelme didn't proved himself against the best. It's quite ridiculous actually, South America isn't just about Brazil or Argentina.
But Riquelme did proved his worth in Europe with Villarreal, dominated for 3 years in one of the best European Leagues, as well as reached the Champions League Semi-Final in his 1st and only try.
And with Boca Juniors he dominated "The Champions of Europe". As well as everyone else in the Copa Libertadores Tournament.
FIFA Youth World Cup (U-20), 3 Copa Libertadores, 1 Intercontinental Cup, Olympics Gold Medal, Countless Argentine League Titles, Champions League Semi-Final with Villarreal, UEFA Cup Semi-Final with Villarreal, 3rd place in the Spanish La Liga with Villarreal.
What else do you want or expect?? Is he unproven because he hasn't won a World Cup or a Champions League?
sukhy2004
30-03-2009, 19:42
I'd just like to add that Maradona's crazy 2-5-3 formation should never be replicated by Argentina again! he should use a 4-2-3-1 formation -
Carrizo
Zanetti--Cambiasso--Angelieri--Heinze
Mascherano--Gago
Messi--Aguero--Di Maria
Milito
Cambiasso can play at the back, just ask Mourinho, plus Maradona hates Cambiasso!
quick question why the hell isn't Cambiasso in the team ahead of Gago? even the most biased Real Madrid fan wouldn't put Gago ahead of Cambiasso
to chime in on the Riquelme debate he has performed in big games - Inter in the Champions League, Brazil in the World Cup Qualifying campaign in 2006, any time he's played Barca.
But like most big players he's double marked in huge games and his impact is limited, Figo was the same and to a lesser extent Cristiano Ronaldo (who when he gets the ball is terrible)
I'd just like to add that Maradona's crazy 2-5-3 formation should never be replicated by Argentina again! he should use a 4-2-3-1 formation -
Carrizo
Zanetti--Cambiasso--Angelieri--Heinze
Mascherano--Gago
Messi--Aguero--Di Maria
Milito
Cambiasso can play at the back, just ask Mourinho, plus Maradona hates Cambiasso!
quick question why the hell isn't Cambiasso in the team ahead of Gago? even the most biased Real Madrid fan wouldn't put Gago ahead of Cambiasso
to chime in on the Riquelme debate he has performed in big games - Inter in the Champions League, Brazil in the World Cup Qualifying campaign in 2006, any time he's played Barca.
But like most big players he's double marked in huge games and his impact is limited, Figo was the same and to a lesser extent Cristiano Ronaldo (who when he gets the ball is terrible)
What do you think about having Gonzalo Higuain with Aguero??
I think it could work wonders, because Aguero seems to play much better with Diego Forlan at his side. Which is why I think that Higuain-Aguero could work wonders for Argentina.
They need a bigger-taller hard-working player working alongside Aguero, and I think Higuain could be that man.
Tevez, Aguero, Messi, Lavezzi -- Too many midgets!!
With Argentina, I remember watching a game against England, where Riquelme played an almost perfect game. Argentina was winning 1-0, the result seemingly in the bag, Riquelme was substituted with less than 10 minutes left on the clock -and- England ended winning that game 2-1.
The England game was the perfect example I remember it clearly. Some would say it was a freindle but both sides took the game very seriously. Eriksson even played Ledley King in midfield to negate the threat of Riquelme but England could not get near him, it was a masterclass. That was Riquelme at his peak for me.
I'd just like to add that Maradona's crazy 2-5-3 formation should never be replicated by Argentina again! he should use a 4-2-3-1 formation -
Carrizo
Zanetti--Cambiasso--Angelieri--Heinze
Mascherano--Gago
Messi--Aguero--Di Maria
Milito
It was more like a 3-4-3, Zanetti made up the back three with Angeleri and Heinze. Against teams like Venezuela who will be content to defend all game its reasonable to sacrifice a defender and play an extra forward. Otherwise I would play a back four.
Jonas' workrate and energy is important, he is not as skillful as Di Maria but there is enough skill in other areas. In Midfield I would play Maxi, Mascherano, Cambiasso and Jonas.
In attack I would Choose either Tevez or Aguero to play with Messi, all three means they tack away from each others game. When Veron came on against Venezuela the team did function better, so when playing three at the back I would play him in a free role.
I was looking for great performances Riquelme has displayed in club football. I said give me three (let's take a play out of your all capital letters book) ARGENTINA games...
The game against England I watched and agree that it was a great performance. You say he has had a few "great" performances against Brazil, but I want to know which games against Brazil so I can try to find them.
But you know what, I'm just going to stop. I liked Riquelme a lot and then you came and started to put his name in nearly every post you have made, which I found annoying and now find Riquelme quite annoying. If I continue I will probably end up hating him and I don't want to do that.
One thing I agree with you on, is that Argentina could do with a tall striker up front. I'm not sure if Higuain is the right man, as Milito has had a good goalscoring season in Italy.
Also agree with Cobinho saying that Jonas should start. I've enjoyed watching him for Newcastle this season. He's an all action player, doesn't stop running, doesn't give up.
I was not looking for great performances Riquelme has displayed in club football. I said give me three (let's take a play out of your all capital letters book) ARGENTINA games...
The game against England I watched and agree that it was a great performance. You say he has had a few "great" performances against Brazil, but I want to know which games against Brazil so I can try to find them.
But you know what, I'm just going to stop. I liked Riquelme a lot and then you came and started to put his name in nearly every post you have made, which I found annoying and now find Riquelme quite annoying. If I continue I will probably end up hating him and I don't want to do that.
One thing I agree with you on, is that Argentina could do with a tall striker up front. I'm not sure if Higuain is the right man, as Milito has had a good goalscoring season in Italy.
Also agree with Cobinho saying that Jonas should start. I've enjoyed watching him for Newcastle this season. He's an all action player, doesn't stop running, doesn't give up.
:ninja:
That's twice now, Charlie. Think I need to start paying you! Much love.
I was looking for great performances Riquelme has displayed in club football. I said give me three (let's take a play out of your all capital letters book) ARGENTINA games...
The game against England I watched and agree that it was a great performance. You say he has had a few "great" performances against Brazil, but I want to know which games against Brazil so I can try to find them.
But you know what, I'm just going to stop. I liked Riquelme a lot and then you came and started to put his name in nearly every post you have made, which I found annoying and now find Riquelme quite annoying. If I continue I will probably end up hating him and I don't want to do that.
One thing I agree with you on, is that Argentina could do with a tall striker up front. I'm not sure if Higuain is the right man, as Milito has had a good goalscoring season in Italy.
Also agree with Cobinho saying that Jonas should start. I've enjoyed watching him for Newcastle this season. He's an all action player, doesn't stop running, doesn't give up.
I don't think you'll find much of Riquelme through YouTube..
A few months back I was looking for the Champions League Quarter-Final Inter vs Villarreal, only managed to find some highlights, but not the complete match.
But since you're looking for Argentina games, it's pretty much the same, the most you'll find are highlights. I was looking for a Brazil vs Argentina game where Riquelme performed well, but the only thing I found where the highlights, but at least it showed Riquelme's goal. Well worth watching it.
Anyways..
Milito is also a good option, but I prefer Higuain because he's younger and can still develop into a better player. On the other hand, Milito is probably in his peak. Both are good options anyways.. and can add a variant to the midgets up front.
I've only seen Jonas a handful of times, he was clearly one of the best in Newcastle, the last time I watched Newcastle. But is he really needed if you already have Mascherano and Cambiasso??
To be fair, even Messi and Aguero and Tevez work fairly hard. The only Argentine player who was really lazy was Riquelme. I don't think lacking "hard-working" players is going to be a problem anymore.
sukhy2004
31-03-2009, 04:59
What do you think about having Gonzalo Higuain with Aguero??
I think it could work wonders, because Aguero seems to play much better with Diego Forlan at his side. Which is why I think that Higuain-Aguero could work wonders for Argentina.
They need a bigger-taller hard-working player working alongside Aguero, and I think Higuain could be that man.
Tevez, Aguero, Messi, Lavezzi -- Too many midgets!!
I don't really think Higuain could cut it at international level, he hasn't scored in the Champions League yet. Plus I don't think Aguero is ready to play for Argentina on regular basis either, I've seen him struggle on the ball at that level for quite a bit of time. I think if Aguero was given another season of Champions League football, then he would probably be ready to play for Argentina. I really think Diego Milito is the man to take that number 9 jersey and partner Tevez up front with Messi playing off them.
I think Argentina really need Gabi Milito back aswell, they miss a top quality centre back and a defensive leader.
I've watched Riquelme play plenty of times, and though he is a sublime passer, a lethal shooter, a master dribbler and has got great vision, he remains one of the most frustratingly selfish and arrogant players i have ever seen in action.
Football Divo is the adjective that best describes him.
I absolutely despise the way in which he celebrates goals.
I'm an American who lived in Argentina for 8 months (just got back two months ago) and I hate him too. He is probably the most arrogant player on earth. I think he sincerely believes that he is the best player on earth, better than his predecessors (Bochini and Maradona). One time last year some Boca fan was swearing at him (he was playing poorly, and because of how much of a ball hog he is when he plays poorly the whole team plays poorly), and Riquelme scored on a free kick. He ran across the field to celebrate right in the guys section and pointed at him, and said that the goal was for him. So it was a huge deal in the media and everything, that's all they talked about for a week. The man is so egotistical, he always has to be the center of attention. And now he's quit the national team because his ego is too big to be in the same room as Maradona. Messi and the other players can take criticism from Maradona without saying anything, yet even though Maradona never really publicly criticized Riquelme he quit.
Argentina's lack of success definitely has to do with the fact that all of the players have completely different styles. A team like Spain or Italy or Germany has all of their players playing in the same domestic league, and they are much more similar and able to play well together. Argentine players play in every different league and they all have completely different styles that don't mesh together well. Before the 90s most of the Argentine national team played in Argentina, and that's why they were better then. This is another problem with the economic imperialism of the European leagues (currently it's the England League), it ruins international football and destroys the integrity of the national teams.
That's twice now, Charlie. Think I need to start paying you! Much love.
Its okay. Just keep up with the love :blush:
I'm an American who lived in Argentina for 8 months (just got back two months ago) and I hate him too. He is probably the most arrogant player on earth. I think he sincerely believes that he is the best player on earth, better than his predecessors (Bochini and Maradona). One time last year some Boca fan was swearing at him (he was playing poorly, and because of how much of a ball hog he is when he plays poorly the whole team plays poorly), and Riquelme scored on a free kick. He ran across the field to celebrate right in the guys section and pointed at him, and said that the goal was for him. So it was a huge deal in the media and everything, that's all they talked about for a week. The man is so egotistical, he always has to be the center of attention. And now he's quit the national team because his ego is too big to be in the same room as Maradona. Messi and the other players can take criticism from Maradona without saying anything, yet even though Maradona never really publicly criticized Riquelme he quit.
That goal he scored and ran like 50 yards to that very same fan, pointed at him maing the fans around him nudge and push him, which Riquelme could have been done for inciting such behaviour.
Ill agree with Usul about the way he celebrates goals.
Today, versus Bolivia. Possible formation:
Carrizo
Zanetti - Demichelis - Heinze - Papa
L.González - Mascherano - Gago - M.Rodríguez
Messi - Tevez
I like it, but I prefer the 3-4-3 used against Venezuela. Also, I'll include Di María instead Gonzalez and switch his position with Maxi Rodríguez. Is good to see that Demichelis is back, the best center back that Argentina has.
3-4-3 would be suicide to use against more established teams.
The best centre back? Only because Milito is injured :(
Cannon ball
01-04-2009, 18:54
The best centre back? Only because Milito is injured :(
What about Ayala?
The best centre back? Only because Milito is injured :(
What about Ayala?
Riquelme's the best centre half.
Im sure Amatuer will back me up...
What about Ayala?
He's getting on, plus he's playing second division football. Can't say I've seen him much this season. He was probably their best when he was at his best.
In all honesty I don't really rate Milito. Although I would actually like to see him fucking recover from his injury. He'd be handy.
In all honesty I don't really rate Milito. Although I would actually like to see him fucking recover from his injury. He'd be handy.
His brother is the shit :>
Is he in the squad?
He's in my dream squad alongside Lavezzi. That's what counts :>
Well, Argentina lost 6-1 with Bolivia. Unbelievable. The defense was awful and the players got tired in the first 30 minutes. Bolivia played very well, so they deserved the victory. Argentina was't defeat by more than 5 goals since the match versus Colombia in 1993, match that end 5-0.
Wouldn't have happened if Riquelme had played.
:unsure:
Haha oh dear, maybe you should have stuck with the 3-4-3. Well the honeymoon is over now with el pelusa.
Nothing against Brazil and Argentina but it's good to see the South American Qualification so competitive, with those two dropping points quite regularly now. Paraguay and Chile have both won more games than Brazil and Argentina. I'm sure they'll both still qualify but it's not a formality anymore as it has been in the past.
zeemeister
01-04-2009, 23:01
Holy fuck. That was humiliating. I hope we can get our shit together for the next match.
Haha oh dear, maybe you should have stuck with the 3-4-3.
Mmm, I don't know. If with four guys in defense Bolivia scored 6 goals, maybe with three it would be worse. The pressing would be better, but the team has been exahusted much earlier.
Oh well, as long as Messi comes back safe I'm not bothered :)
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4163/lolgorilla.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lolgorilla.jpg)
6-1 defeat?? Wow, that Riquelme-dependency is showing earlier than I thought. There's no Xavi here, no Iniesta, no Samuel Eto'o, or Thierry Henry -- Messi will have to adjust, Argentina will rely on him now.
Now I'm seriously worried about Argentina, I don't expect them to win in 2010, but it would be humiliating if they fail to qualify.
It happened to England in the European Cup. So it's very possible.
Sebastian Veron played??
Maybe it's time to call Gonzalo Higuain?
FutebolArte
02-04-2009, 01:44
hahahah what kills me was that maradonna was the spokes person for the whole +2500m altitude.... too funny...
I hope we don't embarrass myself in 30 min tho... but then maybe dunga will get axed (one can only dream...)
I think Argentina need to question the defenders more than the attackers after this loss.
FutebolArte
02-04-2009, 01:45
It happened to England in the European Cup.
also happened to england in '94 :happy:
I think Argentina need to question the defenders more than the attackers after this loss.
The Defence has been the problem, pretty much since the 1990s. They plain out suck as a Defensive Unit.
Zanetti--Demichelis--Samuel--Heinze
That'd be my first choice defence. Although I'm sure they have a better left back to offer than Heinze.
Do you support Argentina, Amateur?
AgentZero
02-04-2009, 05:09
World Cup would be in shambles if its held in Bolivia. Players were playing at literally the highest allowable altitude by FIFA. Still though knocking 6 past the argies is pretty loco.
Zanetti--Demichelis--Samuel--Heinze
That'd be my first choice defence. Although I'm sure they have a better left back to offer than Heinze.
Do you support Argentina, Amateur?
No, he supports Riquelme.
I want Maradona as far away from Messi as possible. He's going to be detrimental to Lionel's career and morale. Critiques, humiliating defeats,..what's next? Anal battering?
zeemeister
02-04-2009, 12:55
6-1 defeat?? Wow, that Riquelme-dependency is showing earlier than I thought. There's no Xavi here, no Iniesta, no Samuel Eto'o, or Thierry Henry -- Messi will have to adjust, Argentina will rely on him now.
Now I'm seriously worried about Argentina, I don't expect them to win in 2010, but it would be humiliating if they fail to qualify.
It happened to England in the European Cup. So it's very possible.
Sebastian Veron played??
Maybe it's time to call Gonzalo Higuain?
Wow have you ever watched a real football match, you mention Messi being dependent on Barca then hit back with he needs Higuain...seriously are you delusional?
I want Maradona as far away from Messi as possible. He's going to be detrimental to Lionel's career and morale. Critiques, humiliating defeats,..what's next? Anal battering?
Agree fully. I loved Maradona the player but I have to admit that he isn't world cup winning coach material. If I had to employ him as coach I would do it a day before the world cup starts. He would get our players all hyped up and ready for war. But in this instance I have a horrible feeling he is going to be exposed.
Zanetti--Demichelis--Samuel--Heinze
That'd be my first choice defence. Although I'm sure they have a better left back to offer than Heinze.
Do you support Argentina, Amateur?
I used to.. not anymore. Honestly, I barely even have time for anything this days, I mostly just watch Barcelona or Boca Juniors, and Arsenal.
But I'd still like to see them in the World Cup, maybe see Messi playing to his potential.
Wow have you ever watched a real football match, you mention Messi being dependent on Barca then hit back with he needs Higuain...seriously are you delusional?
Agree fully. I loved Maradona the player but I have to admit that he isn't world cup winning coach material. If I had to employ him as coach I would do it a day before the world cup starts. He would get our players all hyped up and ready for war. But in this instance I have a horrible feeling he is going to be exposed.
Am I delusional?? Why because you are putting words in my mouth? I never said that Messi was completely dependent on Barcelona... if you understood that, it's your problem.
It's just that yes, I have watched plenty of Football matches, and yes Argentina doesn't haves anyone with the playmaking ability of XAVI -- yes XAVI. Someone that plays alongside Messi in Barcelona.
Oh, and world class proven forwards such as World Cup Winner Thierry Henry, and world class Samuel Eto'o -- DO HELP. Mention me anyone in Argentina who is a better striker than those two.
Fact is that Barcelona is a better Team than Argentina -- therefore Leo Messi haves to adjust, just like any other player who plays at National Level.
As for Gonzalo Higuain.. I think that alongside Aguero, they could make a good front two. It has nothing to do with Messi.
And let me guess, Maradona hands Messi the 10 shirt, and after one bad result, you jump to the conclution that Maradona will ruin Messi's international career??
How about REALITY -- the Defense was as unreliable as it's been for quite some time now, and Messi plain out sucked up there, period. Had Riquelme or Cristiano Ronaldo played that badly, they would've been heavily criticized by fans and press.
But since I don't watch Football Matches, and I'm delusional, and you clearly know better than me.. Why the fuck do I even bother repliyng to you. Fuck that, disrespectful cunts such as yourself aren't even worth my time.
Diego Milito, man. Why isn't he getting a chance?
Fuck that, disrespectful cunts such as yourself aren't even worth my time.
We don't accept such language aimed at other members.
Diego Milito, man. Why isn't he getting a chance?
Precisely.
Yeah, I'm agree to include Milito, but only if Maradona plays with two strikers. I really like the trio Messi-Agüero-Tevez, but maybe a centre forward would be good. Also Argentina has Higuain or Lisandro Lopez, who is playing very well.
About the defense Zanetti--Demichelis--Samuel--Heinze, I have to disagree with the two full backs. Zanetti is one of the best right back that I've ever seen, but his time in the national team has gone. Marcos Angeleri looks very good for that position, fast and great in defense. In the left side, Heinze never played well as left back in Argentina. Never. Maybr a center back he is a bit good, but he neve like to me. So I prefer Emiliano Papa there, similar as Angeleri, but more an attack player, with a good roundtrip. About Samuel, I don't know, long time that I don't watch him play. I hope Milito ends his recovery and alongside Demichelis would be the best pair in the centre defense.
The goalkeeper is good, I like Carrizo. Also with Sergio Romero as backup and Oscar Ustari (don't know when he will come back after his injury), the goal is well cover.
And in the middle, Mascherano is untouchable; maybe versus Bolivia he need more help because he become exahusted pretty earlier, but he is always playing too good, so I would like to see a more attack centre field. No, not Riquelme. A centre field that can defend and attack. Gago do it sometimes, but he never play as good as he did in Boca Juniors. Verón is old, so I'm going to choose Ledesma, the San Lorenzo player. I would like another, but I don't know who.
In the flanks, Jonas is performing well, so my only change is in the right: I would put Di María right there, if Argentina plays with 3 forwards. If 2 strikers are used, then I will switch Jonas and Di María positions so they can centre balls to Milito or a tall striker.
Argentina haves a lot of players to chose from, and can try different systems. But problem is that it isn't a very good time to start experimenting with New Schemes.
In the Defense, I've seen Walter Samuel playing recently, and I still think he's a solid defender. If it was up to me, he would be on the starting 11.
Anyways, Bottom Line is that Argentina haves world class quality, but as a TEAM they are unremarkable or inconsistent.
This can happen when half your players play in Italy, some others play in Spain, others in Argentina, and others in England. As a TEAM it won't be easy to click.
And a 6-1 defeat against Bolivia, it can happen in Football, but it is a record I think, no one had scored 6 goals against Argentina.
Yes, once, in 1958 World Cup, Argentina lost 6-1 against Czech Republic (in that moment called Czechoslovakia).
Nedy, do you not think Zanetti merits a place in the squad with a view to him playing in midfield as opposed to right-back? He remains excellent for Inter Milan whether playing at full-back or in midfield.
Yes, that’s what I was thinking too. How about him moving to midfield?
And I would also like to read Nedy’s opinion.
Mmm, yeah, maybe as right midfield he can do better. In my opinion, since Zanetti comeback to the National team with Basile, he is playing bad as right-back, he isn't defending as good as he did in other times and he don't show security. So yes, maybe he deserve the chance to play in the midfield. Anyway, I can't see a great RMF, except Di María and Jonas, but both play in the left side.
He maybe is doing good in Inter, but most of argentinians players never play in the same level as in his teams. An example: Messi. He is superb in Barcelona, but in Argentina he never show the same performance. He is doing a bit better right now, but the fans wants much more.
The thing with Messi is that Barça is built around him where as with Argentina it's built around Mascherano. Plus having the second best player in the world in the same team, Iniesta, takes some pressure off Messi.
sukhy2004
02-04-2009, 20:23
That result shows why they need Cambiasso, it's ridiculous that he isn't even in the squad when he's been Argentina's most consistent performer for 4-5 years
It is very difficult for a player to go and give the same performance in a national team due to the limited time he gets to train with his countrymen. That said; do you think that Messi’s game is affected by his relationship with Maradona?
I do believe that the full backs need to be changed, but more importantly I think that the midfield must be rearranged although I must admit that I can’t come up with an educated guess of what the best midfield for Argentina would be. How would you play the midfield?
I'd have Cambiasso and Zanetti holding with two wingers and either two strikers or a central playmaker and lone striker. That Mascherano is also able to fill the role and both Aguero and Tevez could occupy the central role adds weight, in my view, to the setup.
zeemeister
02-04-2009, 22:47
I would want a 4-3-3 formation with Burdisso on the right, and Garay, G. Rodriguez in central defence I'm not sure about the left back though. My midfield would be Cambiasso, Mascherano and Lucho Gonzalez with Messi, D.Milito and Tevez upfront. Milito must be the target man and Messi or Tevez dropping into midfield when needed.
Zanetti is not the player he was especially on defence but can still put in the hard yards. Heinze is like a wild dog and is a little too inconsistent and suspect IMO.
That said; do you think that Messi’s game is affected by his relationship with Maradona?
His relation is good, so I think that Maradona don't have influence in Messi performance.
How would you play the midfield?
Jonás--Mascherano--Ledesma?--Di María
But I'm not sure at all, the midfield is the hardest part. The only thing sure is that Mascherano has to play.
playerito
03-04-2009, 03:46
mexico sacks their coach while argentina seems to still keep maradona around. <_< white man cant get no respect in this world. my father said the mexican team has been playin bad all along just to get rid of their coach on purpose, then i asked him so they'd risk making the world cup just for that and wait another 4 years? but you can never know for sure...
sukhy2004
03-04-2009, 10:28
I would go with this -
Leo Franco
Zanetti---G.Rodriguez---Demichelis---Heinze
Mascherano---Cambiasso
Messi---Aguero---Di Maria
Milito
elphenomeno
01-08-2009, 09:08
I would go with this -
Leo Franco
Zanetti---G.Rodriguez---Demichelis---Heinze
Mascherano---Cambiasso
Messi---Aguero---Di Maria
Milito
While i dont like 4-5-1 for Argentina i think it is the best formation for them to win anything. My problem is that Heinze is not playing well and Zanetti is class going forward but defensively he is not the player he used to be. They dont have a playmaker that is as good as Riquelme..Veron is a harder working player than Riquelme but he is not as good a passer nor are his set pieces as good..Maybe Aimar if he remains fit and has a good season with Benfica but i am worried..:crymore:
zeemeister
06-09-2009, 05:22
I loved Maradona the player but I have to admit that he isn't world cup winning coach material. If I had to employ him as coach I would do it a day before the world cup starts. He would get our players all hyped up and ready for war. But in this instance I have a horrible feeling he is going to be exposed.
I hate qouting myself or being an I told you so. But Maradona, as wonderful a player on the pitch as he was, needs to step down. He lacks the tactical acumen and bases his decisions on emotions. Argentina do not have a gameplan and why he persists without a traditional CF and leaves the likes of Cambiasso and Higuan out is beyond me. I fear we may not qualify for WC2010.
Maradona the coach, what an embarrassment...
First, he got rid of Riquelme because Riquelme was not offensive enough... Now he plays with Sebastian Veron.
Tevez, why is Tevez in the team?? What has he done for Argentina in the last 4 years?
What about Higuain, Zarate, Walter Samuel, Gonzalo Rodriguez, etc, etc. People need to learn to be Realistic. Who in hell really thought Maradona would work as coach of ARGENTINA??
Argentina is full of huge egoes, a very difficult team to manage... and instead of going with Capello, or Rijkaard, or Mourinho... No, let's go with Diego Armando Maradona. The sheer arrogance of such a stupid idea... failing to qualify does makes sense.
That said, I really hope they qualify -BUT- they need to get rid of Maradona and whomever is using Maradona as a puppet.
Cannon ball
06-09-2009, 18:19
I hate qouting myself or being an I told you so. But Maradona, as wonderful a player on the pitch as he was, needs to step down. He lacks the tactical acumen and bases his decisions on emotions. Argentina do not have a gameplan and why he persists without a traditional CF and leaves the likes of Cambiasso and Higuan out is beyond me. I fear we may not qualify for WC2010.
I also don't think Maradona is the man for Argentina. I know some big names who have never had managerial experience, such as Van Basten, Klinsmann, and Dunga, have done quite well, but after Basile left, it should have been Batista who replaced him, after he guided Argentina to gold at the olympics.
What about Higuain, Zarate, Walter Samuel, Gonzalo Rodriguez, etc, etc. People need to learn to be Realistic. Who in hell really thought Maradona would work as coach of ARGENTINA??
I'm surprised Zarate hasn't got a call yet. I cannot understand why he has never called upon Cambiasso. Same goes for Higuain. Maybe you were right all along, and that Argentina need Riquelme back. They need some sort of inspiration, and a touch of magic which he can provide.
The Paraguay game on Wednesday is now massive. The good thing for Argentina is that they are 4th, and still in an automatic qualifying place, so it is in their own hands. Paraguay though is a tough place to go. I hope Argentina make it though, I'll be gutted if they don't.
I also don't think Maradona is the man for Argentina. I know some big names who have never had managerial experience, such as Van Basten, Klinsmann, and Dunga, have done quite well, but after Basile left, it should have been Batista who replaced him, after he guided Argentina to gold at the olympics.
I cannot understand why he has never called upon Cambiasso. Same goes for Higuain. Maybe Amateur was right all along, and that Argentina need Riquelme back. They need some sort of inspiration, and a touch of magic which he can provide.
The Paraguay game on Wednesday is now massive. The good thing for Argentina is that they are 4th, and still in an automatic qualifying place, so it is in their own hands. Paraguay though is a tough place to go. I hope Argentina make it though, I'll be gutted if they don't.
Fully agree...
Batista should have replaced him, he would've kept the same Riquelme-Messi-Mascherano engine that won the Olympics. Instead, it was Diego Maradona.
Argentina is a bad defensive team, and it's even more noticeable now without Riquelme shielding and distributing the ball. Plus Maradona's 4-4-2 formation, which is showing all of Argentina's weaknesses in detail.
Maradona tried to change things, but he's clearly struggling to the point he's using Sebastian Veron as the playmaker.
I really hope they qualify, but in all honesty... if they do qualify, this team is not a contender for the WC. Spain and Brazil are much more dangerous and balanced.
Cannon ball
10-09-2009, 02:03
My message to Maradona:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7012/7868c9eaa99d.gif (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/7868c9eaa99d.gif/)
Acquiesce
10-09-2009, 13:50
Watched the game last night. Argies 1-0 down, what does Maradonna do? Spring 35 year old Martin Palermo from the bench, after a nine year exile from international football, in an attempt to save the game.:faceplm:
Maradonna needs to go. The players looked like they were going through the motions, with Messi in particular looking so frustrated.
Riquelme would possibly return if his nemesis is outed. He is exactly what Argentina need at the moment, a playmaker pulling the strings in midfield, playing good through balls to the flyers up front(Messi, Tevez, Aguerro). At the moment they are relying on Gago and Veron to do this, and they just aren't good enough.
Mjällharth
14-09-2009, 15:23
Apparently Maradona has dropped Heinze, Gago, Zanetti, Maxi, Lisandro and Diego Milito.
Apparently Maradona has dropped Heinze, Gago, Zanetti, Maxi, Lisandro and Diego Milito.
Has he still that douche Guttierez in his squad?
Sabatasso
14-09-2009, 20:44
I honestly think I would do a better job than Maradona at coaching Argentina.
To be honest, ANY amateur coach with a sence of respect around their person would be able to qualify argentina to the world cup without much trouble.
It's winning the world cup that's the problem, only a good coach can do that, unless loads of luck is involved.
If I was leading Argentina in this qualification, I would probably lost both games against Brazil, and won the remaining home games.
A rare loss on away field and some draws, and comfortably qualified as number 2 or maybe 3.
I have had some success with lower division football in the past, and winning against "easy" opponents is all about motivation.
Winning against "hard" opponents is a combination of tactical smartness, picking the right team for the right job and motivating those players that isnt getting motivated by themselves by big games (there are a few of them)
Maradona (as much as I loved him as a player) has failed the "easy" part miserably, and is doomed to fail the hard part as well.
It's sad, but true.
ps. I would not mind to be proven wrong in this, in fact nothing would make me happier.
They should have dumped his sorry behind, right away.
It was clear that he was useless from the beginning.
They shouldn't have offered him the job in the first place.
AgentZero
18-09-2009, 02:39
great footballers never become good managers...primarily because most do not know how to handle personalities. Cruyff is a great exception as hes gone some going on between his ears, he was a special case when he was playing too.
great footballers never become good managers...primarily because most do not know how to handle personalities. Cruyff is a great exception as hes gone some going on between his ears, he was a special case when he was playing too.
I would throw Beckenbauer's name into those being exceptions. Even if his time was relatively brief.
I'd throw Leonardo's name in there too.
:smug:
:unsure:
I'd throw him right out there again :smug:
Cannon ball
18-09-2009, 17:57
Mark Hughes.....:ninja:
Brian Clough's name needs to be mentioned here as an exception.
Line up against Peru:
Romero, Perez, Insua, Schiavi, Heinze, Mascherano, Di Maria, Jonas, Aimar, Messi, Higuain.
Surely...........
Good lord, I don't like the balance of that team. Still, it is only Peru...
Dragonfly
10-10-2009, 22:53
Come one lads! Do it for Diego.
:crymore:
How'd they pull that one off? Martin "I miss 3 penalties in 1 game" Palermo for God's sake.
Mjällharth
11-10-2009, 18:55
The end of the match was pretty immense.
zeemeister
11-10-2009, 22:05
Fuck it! I hope we can get lucky against Uruguay.
Also, Pep Guardiola was a great player and is a great coach.
AgentZero
11-10-2009, 22:27
see im undecided with guardiola, this might seem uber contentious but i feel he inherited Rijkaards team, disposed of some personalities that was successful to Frank who consequently had a problem in disciplining/benching those egos and instilled the drive into an already excellent team. The footballing systems and style of play is still the same (IMO) as used by Rijkaard nothing special has developed.
But back to Maradona, i think should Argentina go through to South Africa we wont see more of him as the manager afterwards. I doubt they will make it further than the QF's and when they go out, it will be labeled as unjust (or whatever) and Maradona will walk away from the job, dignity somewhat intact. My 2cents
This team doesn't deserve Messi. He's receiving all the hate. Maradona can do no wrong in the fans' eyes.
Maradona is useless and didn't deserve that victory, but this is a classic press conference.
http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44&idioma=CAS&idtipusrecurs_PK=7&idnoticia_PK=653215
"Those who didn't believe - excuse me ladies - can suck it. They can keep sucking it. I'm either white or black. I'll never be gray. Eh? You treated me in the way in which you treated me ("like garbage")? Well, keep sucking."
:lol:
see im undecided with guardiola, this might seem uber contentious but i feel he inherited Rijkaards team, disposed of some personalities that was successful to Frank who consequently had a problem in disciplining/benching those egos and instilled the drive into an already excellent team. The footballing systems and style of play is still the same (IMO) as used by Rijkaard nothing special has developed.
The footballing style has always been the same.
Rijkaard also had Cruyff as behind-the-scenes advisor and, with all due respect to Frank, Guardiola does it better.
We've improved in every aspect of our game, but mostly in defense and set-pieces.
We'd definitely pwn Argentina, even if Messi was playing with them. :smug:
I can see Agentzeros point but you can slowly see him changing things around, im sure Guardiola has his plans for the team and it'll look a bit different in a year or two.
Mjällharth
31-10-2009, 10:34
Cambiasso finally called up.
No Zanetti or Cambiasso in the Argentina squad.
Just disgraceful
Dragonfly
12-05-2010, 00:09
No Zanetti or Cambiasso in the Argentina squad.
Just disgraceful
Fuck off! Is Sweey Maradona's advisor or something?
CDDRodrigo
12-05-2010, 00:40
First I thought Dunga was the greatest dumbass. Seeing Argentina's squad, I realised I was wrong.
Fuck off! Is Sweey Maradona's advisor or something?
Actually, my first name is Diego :>
Zanetti was never going to get in at this late stage despite being good enough. Cambiasso's omission is scandalous.
Cannon ball
12-05-2010, 20:41
No Riquelme or Zarate either.
No Insua either!! :ninja:
No Riquelme or Zarate either.
Completely unsurprising. He's had a shit season.
Dragonfly
25-05-2010, 13:19
0yw1hmv0Vps
Great finish from Di Maria. Maradona's bear almost makes him look like some sort of scholar (rather than his typical squalor).
Acquiesce
25-05-2010, 14:07
Did Maradonna name Palermo in his WC squad? No Cambiasso? Is he back on the devil's dandruff or what? And didn't him and Riquelme fall out? Is he bringing Messi? :faceplm:
What's up with the 10 minute close-up of Maxi Rodriguez' face after his shit goal? Di Maria's finish is golden.
What a freaking goal from Di Maria.
Loved the son in law's goal too.
First I thought Dunga was the greatest dumbass. Seeing Argentina's squad, I realised I was wrong.
agreed
Zanetti and Cambiasso are back in the squad, and i hear Batista is planning to call Riquelme up again once he's injury free. Amateur must be wetting himself at the prospect.
Tomorrow's friendly against Spain should be nice.
Hopefully Riquelme is called up again. I argued with Amateur about his importance in the past, but Amateur was right and I was wrong.
Plus, Argentina lack a real star.
:joel:
StringerBell
06-09-2010, 20:32
Until then bring Lucho back
That disallowed goal was amazing. I don't want to say it was Maradona-esque, but damned if it wasn't. Shame he wasn't up against an English defense ;)
Cannon ball
08-09-2010, 19:27
I heard that Pique casually did a rainbow flick somewhere in the game to clear the ball from danger, over Aguero's head, I would have loved to have seen that.
IronCity
07-10-2011, 15:10
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina -- An Argentine goalkeeper saved five penalties and converted a spot kick himself in a match in the Copa Argentina.
Goalkeeper Marcos Fascanella stopped four penalties for Excurionistas in a penalty shootout on Tuesday against fellow fourth-division club Argentino de Merlo. He also saved one during the match, which ended 1-1 before the shootout.
Excurionistas won the shootout 2-1 with Fascanella also converting one of the two penalties.
He called his performance "the best match of my life."
The Copa Argentina is new this season and is similar to Spain's Copa del Rey and England's FA Cup.
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