View Full Version : New Graphic Card/Memory
Good day, I'm looking for some expert advice on what kind of upgrade to get so I can properly play Empire Total War. I'm looking for a new graphics card, as my existing one (a GeForce FX 5700) is quite rubbish.
I've been looking into it but I now very little about the numbers and specifics of upgrading such. I came across things like AGP, PCI-E....and with a little help (FreshDiagnose) it turns out I have an AGP slot (Lord knows what speed) and PCI cards. Something about coolers involved too, it is just too much!
Any help would be appreciated, here's some basic info about this ol'thing and if you need more just holler.
Motherboard Model: P4P800SE ASUSTek
Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.20 Ghz
Total Physical Memory: 511.23 MB
Maximum Memory Size per Slot: 1GB (four slots I think)
Lets ask the important question as this is unfortunately very important in your case: how much money do you have? :faceplm:
I believe you'll need a new processor and motherboard because of the requirement for a PCI-E slot to house the new graphics card and with all of that comes new RAM. This won't cost you a ton of money, I just want to make sure we're staying well within budget.
Lets ask the important question as this is unfortunately very important in your case: how much money do you have? :faceplm:
I believe you'll need a new processor and motherboard because of the requirement for a PCI-E slot to house the new graphics card and with all of that comes new RAM. This won't cost you a ton of money, I just want to make sure we're staying well within budget.
Looking to stay within 400 euro's, 500 tops. Might as well buy a new one :mellow:
But I'm not going to.
Right, after much randomness you will want the following:
If your existing RAM is not DDR 400, its pretty much useless to you. Download CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) to find out what speed it is.
If it is, buy two or three more sticks of 512MB DDR 400 RAM for a total of 1.5GB or 2GB. If it isn't, throw the bastard away (or sell it if you can) and buy two 1GB sticks of DDR400 RAM. 1GB being the minimum requirement, it'll include awfully long loading times and gameplay limitations.
For your graphics card, aim for the 512MB Sapphiare Radeon HD 3850 AGP. Before purchasing, however, check the sticker on your power supply (PSU) to see what its total capacity is and tell me the make of it.
Cheers for you help by the way!
Downloaded CPUZ, it says (Type: DDR) and size (512MB) under the header "Memory" and DDR Module size 256MB, max bandwidth PC3200 (200 MHz) under the header SPD.
On the back of my computer it says "Input 230VAC50Hz 3A". When I opened the case the make seems to be X-Gear and Max Load is 450W...it that is what you needed.
I checked for that card and it says this: Minimum system power supply: 450 That can't be good :faceplm:
Cheers for you help by the way!
Downloaded CPUZ, it says (Type: DDR) and size (512MB) under the header "Memory" and DDR Module size 256MB, max bandwidth PC3200 (200 MHz) under the header SPD.
On the back of my computer it says "Input 230VAC50Hz 3A". When I opened the case the make seems to be X-Gear and Max Load is 450W...it that is what you needed.
I checked for that card and it says this: Minimum system power supply: 450 That can't be good :faceplm:
It would be fine if the brand were a bit more reputable. You could always try it but may end up finding Windows giving you a message about the quality of graphics being lowered to prevent the system overloading the PSU. I'd advise buying a 500 or 550W PSU made by a company such as Corsair, Seasonic, Enermax, Antec or the like. Taking the power supply out is the most tedious thing to do though as it generally requires everything else to be removed first. Do you know anyone who can do this for you?
In CPU-Z, there should be something about a memory speed in the memory tab. Perhaps once you choose the slot in which the RAM is located. That's where you'd want to see 400Mhz. It might say 333Mhz or 266Mhz instead - it should certainly say one of those. Also, is it one stick of 512MB RAM or multiple 2 sticks of 256MB? If the latter, I'd just get rid if you have no issues with doing so.
Taking the power supply out is the most tedious thing to do though as it generally requires everything else to be removed first. Do you know anyone who can do this for you?
Indeed it is, as I found out a week or two back. I got a friend to help me with that because he knew what he was doing and I would advise the same for you, Barry. Unless of course you do know what you are doing, if that is the case then... :blush:
It sounds like a big job, seeming as though a lot of your components could do with an upgrade. Are you sure he wouldn't be better off buying a whole new tower, Sweey?
Indeed it is, as I found out a week or two back. I got a friend to help me with that because he knew what he was doing and I would advise the same for you, Barry. Unless of course you do know what you are doing, if that is the case then... :blush:
It sounds like a big job, seeming as though a lot of your components could do with an upgrade. Are you sure he wouldn't be better off buying a whole new tower, Sweey?
I wrote out a whole long post about that earlier but deleted it as the cost is far greater due to him needing all new RAM anyway plus a motherboard, CPU, PSU and graphics card - not worth it if he's not using the PC for much and only playing this one game along with older ones.
The budget would perhaps be stretched as well because if doing all that, he'd likely want to be way in excess of the minimum specification which will cost money. All that considered, plus Barry perhaps having nobody to do it all for him - assuming he can't - caused me to re-structure my entire reply.
Barry, if you'd like me to spec a decent new system for you I can but it depends on your requirements.
Well I'd like to run Football Manager and Empire Total War properly, FM in particular seems to lean on virtual memory heavily as I get a message saying 'not enough virtual memory' whenever I run something else beside it. I already have a monitor/mouse/keyboard (the basics), I don't really need a NASA-computer but just want to run those two games properly as well as stuff like Word/Excel/Internet/ITunes but that doesn't take a lot. I can stretch the budget to fit the demands, no problem - unless it is way over 1000 euro's.
My sister's friend changed a couple of his computer's parts but nothing extensive and I really haven't any friends with enough knowledge for that kind of touch-up. I'm a patient man but I think I lack the expertise and know-how (and as a result, confidence) to haul it over like that. Thanks for your two cents though, Singey.
Having read a review about Empire Total War, a quote!
As you might expect, Empire Total War is a bit of a system hog, so you'll need a fairly powerful machine to get the most out of it. I've been running it mostly on a Quad 2.66GHz processor with 3GB of RAM and a GeForce 8800 GTX and have been able to enjoy most of the visual effects without compromising the frame rate too much. Battles still load a bit slowly, but the performance is generally good even with lots of action on the screen.
Is that the sort of system I should be aiming for Don= Question mark refuses to work!
There's two ways to approach this Barry:
-Due to conflicting reports from users of the demo, your existing processor may or may not handle the game well. To test your system properly, you'll need to buy the graphics card (which you'll need to do for either scenario - 8800GTX, 1GB Radeon HD 4870 or Geforce GTX 280/290 - the last two are pretty much the existing top end, the 8800GTX was at the top for longer than anyone ever thought it would be and is only one step down from the other two). This will force you to buy a power supply which has two 6-pin PCI-E adapters and has a total output of around 600W. That's decent money spent right there as a good power supply isn't cheap. You could yet require a processor when the game doesn't work - and I doubt FM will work well on that system even with more RAM.
-Alternatively, buy a pre-built computer which has at least 2GB RAM (ideally 4GB), at least a dual core processor running at 3Ghz (or a quad core running at 2.4Ghz or above) and a good graphics card (it almost certainly will have if the other two requirements are met). Intel dual core processors have an E before their model number, quad cores have a Q. If you can possibly find some machines on the internet and link me to their specifications once you've looked at the price, that'd be a good way to go. Probably the advisable route as putting the power supply in is a job and a half and you don't want to start doing it only to find you short circuit something or simply can't get the system back together.
I'm not sure if Overclockers UK, Scan or Aria deliver to Holland which is why I've not suggested any systems yet.
EDIT: UK prices suggest you might end up between £700 and £1,500 - but likely closer to the latter figure. That's around 770-1650 euros or something BUT we should be able to work around that for the most part and we do tend to pay more for goods over here than in other countries so don't get too worried just yet. I would note the system you'll end up buying should serve you well for a very long time too. We can scale back appropriately where necessary to keep it within budget.
Eternally grateful for your help. I shall scan the Dutch sites for that kind of system, and I'll post here. Bit busy so it might end up being Tuesday before I post them up.
As much as I loathe them, do you have Dell in Holland? :>
If so, that'd be a decent place for you to start.
We do, actually, pretty handy a site. I'll have a look around.
Intel® Core™2 Quad Core Processor Q8200 (2,33 GHz, 1.333 MHz FSB, 4 MB cache)
4.096 MB 800 MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [4 x 1.024]
Graphics Card: 256 MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 3450
The card doesn't seem like much, from what I can tell.
AMD Phenom™ X4 Quad-Core processor 9750, 4GB DDR II SDRAM 800MHz, 1x 640GB HDD, Swap cage 2x HDD, 1x ATI Radeon™ HD4850 512MB DDR3, 2x DVI, HDMI, Liquid cooling, DVD-RW Double Layer, DVD-ROM 16x, 750Watt power supply
If anything a fuck ugly thing, but that doesn't matter.
Windows Vista® Home Premium , Intel® Core™ i7 processor i7-920, 6GB DDR3 RAM (triple channel), 1000GB HDD (7200rpm), Swap cage 2x HDD, DVD-RW Double Layer, ATI Radeon™ HD4650 1GB DVI VGA HD, card reader, FireWire, 1Gb LAN, incl. USB US Int. keyboard
The Overclockers Uk site seems to have International Support, but I can't really tell if they deliver outside the UK.
Intel® Core™2 Quad Core Processor Q8200 (2,33 GHz, 1.333 MHz FSB, 4 MB cache)
4.096 MB 800 MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [4 x 1.024]
Graphics Card: 256 MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 3450
The card doesn't seem like much, from what I can tell.
AMD Phenom™ X4 Quad-Core processor 9750, 4GB DDR II SDRAM 800MHz, 1x 640GB HDD, Swap cage 2x HDD, 1x ATI Radeon™ HD4850 512MB DDR3, 2x DVI, HDMI, Liquid cooling, DVD-RW Double Layer, DVD-ROM 16x, 750Watt power supply
If anything a fuck ugly thing, but that doesn't matter.
Windows Vista® Home Premium , Intel® Core™ i7 processor i7-920, 6GB DDR3 RAM (triple channel), 1000GB HDD (7200rpm), Swap cage 2x HDD, DVD-RW Double Layer, ATI Radeon™ HD4650 1GB DVI VGA HD, card reader, FireWire, 1Gb LAN, incl. USB US Int. keyboard
The third one is brilliant but the second one is pretty good too. My only question with the third is whether having 1GB instead of 512MB in graphics memory will make up for the architectural shortfall on the 4650 against the 4850. The 4650 is a midrange card, the 4850 closer to top end. The RAM on the latter will perform (much?) faster, as will the processor. Strange compromise you're having to make there. Anything else you can find which might settle between the two of them?
The third one is brilliant but the second one is pretty good too. My only question with the third is whether having 1GB instead of 512MB in graphics memory will make up for the architectural shortfall on the 4650 against the 4850. The 4650 is a midrange card, the 4850 closer to top end. The RAM on the latter will perform (much?) faster, as will the processor. Strange compromise you're having to make there. Anything else you can find which might settle between the two of them?
The third one is 912,88 euro's at a particular shop, the 2nd one is a 1012 euro's so that is an advantage right there. The 3rd is an Acer Aspire M7720 and the 2nd one is an Acer Aspire G7200 Predator Defender. It looks like you pay more for the original (but not pretty) design of the case rather the specs.
I've spotted this for 712 euro's:
Windows Vista® Business, Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 (2.4GHz/FSB: 1066MHz/8MB L2 cache), Office™ Ready 2007 (trial version), 4GB DDR II RAM 800MHz (2x 2GB), 500GB HDD S-ATA II, card reader, DVD-RW Multi, NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600GS 512MB VGA
That one in the above post won't be good enough. An 8600GS is inferior to an 8800GT, perhaps even a 7800GT. Where series 6, 7, 8 and 9 Geforce cards are concerned, you want a card ending with 800 or 900 as these are the gaming versions - but you don't want a series 6 or 7 card as they won't be able to play Empire: Total War at a high enough detail level. The Q6600 is old and runs far hotter than the Core i7 processor in the one from earlier so avoid the Q6600 one as it isn't cheap enough for what you are getting.
Where are you finding these? Don't mind having a nose around.
The AMD machine is cheaper than Core i7 because the former is a) AMD and b) not AMD's equivalent to Intel's Core i7 - AMD don't have an equivalent yet.
You may still end up buying the second one for 912 if you find nothing else, just worth taking a day or two more to find other packages.
http://pcs.centralpoint.nl/ A Dutch site naturally, but I'll give a few necessary translations:
Prijsklasse means Price Class.
Intern Geheugen Minimum:Minimum Amount of Internal Memory
Processor-kloksnelheid minimaal: Minimum Amount of Processor clocking Speed (rather a literal translation but I figure you know what it means)
Need another thing translated, just holler. If you click on a model, there'll be some menu's on the next screen and "Specificaties" is where you'll want to go.
I need some drugs after that :huh:
Had a look at the Dutch Dell site too (:faceplm:) and you might want to play around with the XPS 430 - you can get a Core 2 Duo E8400 (you're only gaming, E:TW may not be fully optimised for quad cores so you're not losing out on much, especially as you aren't overclocking and the base processor speed is faster), 640GB SATA HD, 3GB DDR3 RAM, 512MB Radeon HD 4850 and all their other random items for 939 euros. If you want to, you can pick a lower capacity hard drive - will you really need 640GB?? - and save some money.
That site, due to the ability to pick certain hardware, is a bit of an advantage although perhaps you can with Central Point and I didn't notice/understand.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5770/dibujoysi.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dibujoysi.jpg)
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/dibujoysi.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img18/dibujoysi.jpg/1/)
Just downloading the Total War demo, this laptop should be able to handle it right?
I can't remember what game those specs were comparing.
I need some drugs after that :huh:
Had a look at the Dutch Dell site too (:faceplm:) and you might want to play around with the XPS 430 - you can get a Core 2 Duo E8400 (you're only gaming, E:TW may not be fully optimised for quad cores so you're not losing out on much, especially as you aren't overclocking and the base processor speed is faster), 640GB SATA HD, 3GB DDR3 RAM, 512MB Radeon HD 4850 and all their other random items for 939 euros. If you want to, you can pick a lower capacity hard drive - will you really need 640GB?? - and save some money.
That site, due to the ability to pick certain hardware, is a bit of an advantage although perhaps you can with Central Point and I didn't notice/understand.
Haha, now you know why we do!
Sounds like very good advice, I really don't need a 640 GB hard-drive as I have an excellent external hard-drive for series/videos/music. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Cheers!
Yes Miggy, your laptop will run the game. I'm sure it won't do so at the highest graphics detail, but it'll be good enough.
Just to be sure which options are the preferrable for my situation:
Graphics Card:
256 MB ATI® Radeon™ HD 3650 grafische kaart [Standard - no extra cost)
512MB ATI® Radeon™ 4850 Graphics card [€ 150,00]
512MB ATI™Radeon™ HD 4670 graphics card [€ 50,00]
Memory:
3.072 MB 1.067 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [3 x 1.024] [€ 10,00
4.096 MB 1.067 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [4 x 1.024] 50 euro's
4.096 MB 1.333 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2 x 2.048] € 70,00
2.048 MB 1.333 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2 x 1.024] [No extra charge]
6144MB 1066 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2x2048 + 2x1024] € 100,00
8192MB 1066 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [4x2048] € 170,00
Windows?
Legitieme Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 English
Legitieme Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1, 32-bit - Dutch
Legitieme Windows Vista® Ultimate SP1, 32-bit - Dutch
Legitieme Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 (64 bit) - Engels
Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 (64 bit) -
Could you highlight those who are most fit? I'd hate to foul up so I'd rather double-check.
Intel® Core2 Duo Processor E8400 (3,00 GHz, 1.333 MHz, 6 MB cache) - I took it this is the one I would want?
The E8400 is fine, 64-bit Vista will take advantage of over 3.2GB RAM, 32-bit won't, go for at least 3GB RAM and choose the Radeon HD 4850.
Again, thank you. Cheque's in the mail!
Processor: Intel® Core2 Duo Processor E8400 (3,00 GHz, 1.333 MHz, 6 MB cache)
Memory: 4.096 MB 1.333 MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2 x 2.048]
Graphics card: 512MB ATI® Radeon™ 4850 Graphics card
Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 (64 bit)
Hard-drive: 320 GB (7.200 rpm) Seriële ATA/100 harde schijf met 16 MB DataBurst™-cache
That is the almost final word.
Yep that's what you want. Happy with the price?
If you need any help once you've got it - disabling programs on startup that don't need to be running, ensuring you've got your graphics card set up optimally (its the same one I have) and even as far as overclocking your processor by 10%, let me know as it'll be straightforward.
Once you have the machine, run CPU-Z on it and make sure that it reads as 3000Mhz - these Intel processors have a speedstrap option which lowers the CPU speed until it needs to be quicker but it causes an increase in loading times and is easily turned off in the BIOS.
Oh, be ever so slightly aware that a 64-bit OS is that bit more fiddly than a 32-bit OS. Not in a major way but very old 16-bit applications don't run and the odd game has an issue. Just so you've got the heads up. More people use a 64-bit OS these days given the RAM limitations in a 32-bit OS and most major protection software fully supports Vista x64 - just remember to download 64-bit drivers when given the option for graphics cards etc.
Yep that's what you want. Happy with the price?
If you need any help once you've got it - disabling programs on startup that don't need to be running, ensuring you've got your graphics card set up optimally (its the same one I have) and even as far as overclocking your processor by 10%, let me know as it'll be straightforward.
Once you have the machine, run CPU-Z on it and make sure that it reads as 3000Mhz - these Intel processors have a speedstrap option which lowers the CPU speed until it needs to be quicker but it causes an increase in loading times and is easily turned off in the BIOS.
Oh, be ever so slightly aware that a 64-bit OS is that bit more fiddly than a 32-bit OS. Not in a major way but very old 16-bit applications don't run and the odd game has an issue. Just so you've got the heads up. More people use a 64-bit OS these days given the RAM limitations in a 32-bit OS and most major protection software fully supports Vista x64 - just remember to download 64-bit drivers when given the option for graphics cards etc.
Just under 900 euro's with delivery included - I'm happy with that. I already set myself up for a price exceeding 1000 euro's so that is a mental money save. Thanks for the tips, I've taken note and I shall follow up on them.
Do you run a 64-bit OS yourself Don? And how is the graphics card holding up well in the games you play?
Just under 900 euro's with delivery included - I'm happy with that. I already set myself up for a price exceeding 1000 euro's so that is a mental money save. Thanks for the tips, I've taken note and I shall follow up on them.
Do you run a 64-bit OS yourself Don? And how is the graphics card holding up well in the games you play?
The graphics card is doing very well in the games I play. I never push my card all the way but its definitely well above medium settings in every game. You'll find plenty of reviews of the card on the internet and I've been very happy with it since purchase - it ran Race Driver GRID and Devil May Cry 4 at very high settings.
I did run 64-bit Vista until I simply couldn't be bothered running two Operating Systems at once and decided to stick with XP due to it being better for gaming. That does mean I'm not using 750MB of the RAM I have installed though.
I'll definitely go 64-bit with Windows 7 when it eventually comes out as I'm pretty sure Microsoft will want to dump XP sooner rather than later to force people into spending money. The 64-bit version of XP was an abomination and it was barely compatible with anything and virtually nobody provided support for their applications in that version of XP.
Alright, posting from the new arrival - chuffed with it so far. Downloaded CPU-Z, core speed is around 1995,5 MHz - is that the one I needed to check?
Also you mention optimalizing the graphics card - I could use your help again!
Alright, posting from the new arrival - chuffed with it so far. Downloaded CPU-Z, core speed is around 1995,5 MHz - is that the one I needed to check?
Also you mention optimalizing the graphics card - I could use your help again!
I'm not at home but in the BIOS you need to go into Advanced Chipset Features or something similar where you will have about six options, one hopefully mentioning Speedstep. That needs to be turned off, as perhaps do one or two others. It can be sorted out later, I'll try to remember to check tonight what I've got set to off.
As for the graphics card, go here: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx, download the latest drivers for your card and install them. Again, once I'm at home I'll tell you where to go to fiddle with a couple of options to slightly increase the card's abilities without giving you any headaches.
Also make sure you install ZoneAlarm (firewall), AVG (anti-virus), SpyBot (anti-spyware), Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware (anti-malware :>) so you've got the security end tied up.
Glad you're happy with the computer.
Barry:
Graphics card
Go into Catalyst Control Center once you've installed graphics drivers, go into Advanced Mode, Click on ATI Overdrive, click on the locked icon to unlock it and then look at the GPU Clock and Memory Clock. If they're set to 550Mhz and 900Mhz, push them up to 570Mhz and 1000Mhz and make sure you select Enable Manual Fan Control and move that to around 42%. If that's too noisy, move it down to about 38% and consider leaving the GPU Clock and Memory Clock at 550/900. For a laugh, set the fan to 100% and listen to the noise it generates!
Don't select Auto Tune - it isn't a good enough test.
Speedstep
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?p=1098862#post1 098862
The items will have similar if not identical names. Any trouble finding them, let me know.
EDIT: Mine is under Advanced -> CPU Configuration.
You may see CPU Ratio which is the processor multiplier.
FSB x CPU Ratio = CPU speed
FSB x 2 = RAM speed
You don't want to overclock either too far so before changing anything there, let me know the existing values.
As for sorting speedstep, C1E or something similarly named needs to be disabled. I've also got a setting along the lines of Maximum Valve CPU ID disabled.
Any further questions, let me know. The only real thing left once this is done is to go into the Start Menu, select Run, type msconfig, press ENTER, click on the Startup tab and post screenshots of the programs running on startup to ensure nothing silly (like QuickTime or random Dell programs) is running all the time when it isn't needed.
Graphics card
Go into Catalyst Control Center once you've installed graphics drivers, go into Advanced Mode, Click on ATI Overdrive, click on the locked icon to unlock it and then look at the GPU Clock and Memory Clock. If they're set to 550Mhz and 900Mhz, push them up to 570Mhz and 1000Mhz and make sure you select Enable Manual Fan Control and move that to around 42%. If that's too noisy, move it down to about 38% and consider leaving the GPU Clock and Memory Clock at 550/900. For a laugh, set the fan to 100% and listen to the noise it generates!
Don't select Auto Tune - it isn't a good enough test.
CCC won't start up for me (though it worked perfectly fine before I installed the newest drivers) so I'll re-install it- I'll get back to this.
Speedstep
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?p=1098862#post1 098862
The items will have similar if not identical names. Any trouble finding them, let me know.
EDIT: Mine is under Advanced -> CPU Configuration.
You may see CPU Ratio which is the processor multiplier.
FSB x CPU Ratio = CPU speed
FSB x 2 = RAM speed
You don't want to overclock either too far so before changing anything there, let me know the existing values.
As for sorting speedstep, C1E or something similarly named needs to be disabled. I've also got a setting along the lines of Maximum Valve CPU ID disabled.
Cheers, I'm about to do that now.
Any further questions, let me know. The only real thing left once this is done is to go into the Start Menu, select Run, type msconfig, press ENTER, click on the Startup tab and post screenshots of the programs running on startup to ensure nothing silly (like QuickTime or random Dell programs) is running all the time when it isn't needed.
I have done this before on other computers, but never on Vista; I don't see an option Run or similar.
Hold down the Start Menu key on the keyboard and with it held, press R. That should bring up the Run prompt.
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