The Manual Pass (best and most overlooked feature in the series)

[What Lad]

Hello sirs and other sirs. Do you use the manual pass? Why not? Don't you know that this is the greatest feature of this series?

Konami, please note: DO NOT AI ASSIST MANUAL PASSES IN FUTURE GAMES. ONCE YOU MASTER THE MANUAL PASS (and manual shot) YOU REALISE REAL FOOTBALL IS HERE (or it was in Pro Evo 6)

The manual pass is so much better than the regular controls because you can play exactly into the space you want to. You can even use it to shoot from close (or long with L1) range!

A note to the developers, if you score with a manual pass but a player is offside, the goal will be ruled out. Even if he has no involvement in the goal at all! Please fix this bug it has been present in the last 3 versions of the game.

I wrote a guide about how to use the manual pass properly. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/930760/53864
)It's quite heavy going. Thing you're up to it? This thread is not to advertise my guide, however. I'm not interested in that, I'm interested in helping Konami to realise they are turning away from the one feature this series has got that will redeem it.

I play people on live all the time with incredibly high ratings, and I can show them things they have never seen before. Pass with L1, watch the runner, point the analogue stick into his run ITS SO SIMPLE BUT AFFECTIVE and it looks amazing. How can so many people ignore the opportunity to take complete control over the weight and direction of their passes? Or even their shots? Even the developers have not spotted the manual scoring bug over three versions of the game, I'm left scratching my head thinking is anyone REALLY playing this game to its true potential? Even the people who make it?

I dunno man... I expect everyone to just dismiss this.

[CocoBZ]

You can count on my vote :D

[What Lad]

no one else will!

NEW FEATURES FOR PRO EVO 2010 INCLUDE:
NEW BOOTS FOR PLAYERS

fans: oooooooooooh!!

ALSO FEATURING: BETTER MUSIC!
fans: IM WON OVER THIS IS GONNA OWN FIFA

AND FINALLY TO TOP IT ALL OFF, A DIFFERENT COLOUR MENU!
fans: SOCKS BLOWN RIGHT OFF

[saibot]

Hello sirs and other sirs. Do you use the manual pass? Why not? Don't you know that this is the greatest feature of this series?

Konami, please note: DO NOT AI ASSIST MANUAL PASSES IN FUTURE GAMES. ONCE YOU MASTER THE MANUAL PASS (and manual shot) YOU REALISE REAL FOOTBALL IS HERE (or it was in Pro Evo 6)

The manual pass is so much better than the regular controls because you can play exactly into the space you want to. You can even use it to shoot from close (or long with L1) range!

A note to the developers, if you score with a manual pass but a player is offside, the goal will be ruled out. Even if he has no involvement in the goal at all! Please fix this bug it has been present in the last 3 versions of the game.

I wrote a guide about how to use the manual pass properly. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/930760/53864
)It's quite heavy going. Thing you're up to it? This thread is not to advertise my guide, however. I'm not interested in that, I'm interested in helping Konami to realise they are turning away from the one feature this series has got that will redeem it.

I play people on live all the time with incredibly high ratings, and I can show them things they have never seen before. Pass with L1, watch the runner, point the analogue stick into his run ITS SO SIMPLE BUT AFFECTIVE and it looks amazing. How can so many people ignore the opportunity to take complete control over the weight and direction of their passes? Or even their shots? Even the developers have not spotted the manual scoring bug over three versions of the game, I'm left scratching my head thinking is anyone REALLY playing this game to its true potential? Even the people who make it?

I dunno man... I expect everyone to just dismiss this.



Hi What Lad, I went through your walk through on manual pass. However am facing a difficulty if you can help me out.

1. I have set my manual pass to pass the ball if i flick,turn my Right Analog. I don't need to press R3. However my passes are not at all accurate. If I try a diagonal pass the player gives it to the next play to is on the same line. Shown Below

P1 ---------------------------P2

If P1 wants to do a manual pass to diagonally he gives it straight to P2. The same thing happens while doing a long pass.

Also while doing a manual shoot does the player only shoot at goal if you press the Right Analog towards the goal? I mean can you not angle it onto the side of the goal?


P1 -------------------- GK Goal

If i do the above only then the player shoots straight at the GK. If i bend my right analog towards the left or the right he tries passing to the nearest player. Is this right? Or am i doing something wrong?

Please help as i found the manual pass very intriguing.

[What Lad]

Hi What Lad, I went through your walk through on manual pass. However am facing a difficulty if you can help me out.

1. I have set my manual pass to pass the ball if i flick,turn my Right Analog. I don't need to press R3. However my passes are not at all accurate. If I try a diagonal pass the player gives it to the next play to is on the same line. Shown Below

P1 ---------------------------P2

If P1 wants to do a manual pass to diagonally he gives it straight to P2. The same thing happens while doing a long pass.

Also while doing a manual shoot does the player only shoot at goal if you press the Right Analog towards the goal? I mean can you not angle it onto the side of the goal?


P1 -------------------- GK Goal

If i do the above only then the player shoots straight at the GK. If i bend my right analog towards the left or the right he tries passing to the nearest player. Is this right? Or am i doing something wrong?

Please help as i found the manual pass very intriguing.

basically i would recommend changing the setting so that you DO have to click R3. without this, as soon as you point the analogue stick, that direction is recorded as the direction you want the pass to travel in. its VERY DIFFICULT to initially push the stick into the desired direction. its much easier if you push the stick in the desired direction, steady your aim correctly and THEN click R3 to determine power. this way the direction is not accepted until you click the R3 button and you have the time to align your aim better.

as for the manual shooting, you can point the shot exactly where you want from any angle to any angle, i think you are only having the problem of aiming straight because it is difficult to aim properly without the R3 button.

HOWEVER are you playing Pro Evo 2009? this version has AI assisted manual passes, meaning that they aren't manual at all, the computer AI assumes which direction you mean and guides it for you. this version of the game has ruined the concept and potential of the manual pass. konami, seriously... seriously... what are you doing?

[saibot]

basically i would recommend changing the setting so that you DO have to click R3. without this, as soon as you point the analogue stick, that direction is recorded as the direction you want the pass to travel in. its VERY DIFFICULT to initially push the stick into the desired direction. its much easier if you push the stick in the desired direction, steady your aim correctly and THEN click R3 to determine power. this way the direction is not accepted until you click the R3 button and you have the time to align your aim better.

as for the manual shooting, you can point the shot exactly where you want from any angle to any angle, i think you are only having the problem of aiming straight because it is difficult to aim properly without the R3 button.

HOWEVER are you playing Pro Evo 2009? this version has AI assisted manual passes, meaning that they aren't manual at all, the computer AI assumes which direction you mean and guides it for you. this version of the game has ruined the concept and potential of the manual pass. konami, seriously... seriously... what are you doing?

Yup, am playing PES 2009. Well this really sucks, I find out how awesome manual pass is and they screw it up. :(

[What Lad]

i'd recommend picking up pro evo 6 for cheap

or the PS2 versions of 2008 or 2009, as these still run on the much superior previous engine

[joekim1]

make sure you go to button configuration and on details change the manual pass mode to the first one (if i'm not mistaken). i think the default is on the second, which does not require you to push down on the stick.

[What Lad]

you're crazy. if only i could put videos up, i'd show everyone. passes you just can't do without a manual. flowing moves, you see a player, you play into his space. the AI ALWAYS reads it wrong, even accurate passes aren't as accurate as they could be, too close to defenders side etc.

right hand stick for 1st touch? why can't you use the dpad for this? i haven't played too much fifa so i'm not sure i get it, but jesus christ the manual pass is godlike.

except for in 2009 obviously. it was shite in that. also i guarantee altho i'm not amazing at this game, i'd be able to play better passes than any tournament winner

[joekim1]

i'm convinced playing with the manual pass is what PES was meant to be. games are 10x more fun and plays more perfect than by using your simple automatic X and O passes. 10x. really, i counted. relying on automatic passes is way too risky for regular use because of how random (and poor) they are, even the through pass. manual pass is the future of pes, really.

if you disagree, you're probably a noob :) lol jk

[NeoKubrick]

I hate to break it to ya, but a lot of people use manual passes in ways you've dismissed and apparently don't imagine, What Lad.

I'm sure a development team who actually implemented the move are aware of its uses and the issue with the offside, which wouldn't be a simple fix as you suggest.

It did work on this version, too, except the input for diagonal was made too small to encourage more to use it for up, down, left, and right passes. Manually shots were nerfed because it was based upon ball physics that the goalkeepers couldn't handle. Long Pass Type 5, Cross, and aim was instant goal just outside of the box and thus they had to put less speed and more elevation on the ball for PES 2009.

[dicky_t]

personally i think the whole set up sucks

manual passing should not be done on the right analogue stick ,that should be left for skills or tricks

manual passing should be done with a button with a power guage ,giving an aim and fire

your D-pad should be for (first touch and 360 movement) if ever incorporated ,this will give touch control and turn in one movement ,a sharp turn and movement will give you the split second time to move your hand back to the left analogue stick

and your left analogue stick ,should be used for player movement only or in conjunction with the manual button pass

using this system your joypad control would be enhanced but not compromised and more importantly will keep your hand balanced on the joypad

[byrnie05]

Pro Evo 6, where the skills were on the right stick also had its first touch on the right stick, too. Bringing the ball down on the player's chest with a well executed pull of the right stick is sorely lacking from 09 and I kept trying to do it for the first couple of months before I realised tricks were borked on the left and it's very hit or miss.

For the sake of manual pass, which adds just another form of passing, losing tricks and skills that are easy to pull off and add a little magic to a game is not the ideal trade-off.

[What Lad]

Whilst getting humped 9-0 in the process.

The problem with manual passes in past iterations of Pes is that simply weren't really all that manual. For a start, you are stuck with only 8 possible directions

sorry but you're wrong. 8 directions? 360 degrees mate. a millimetre wrong and you're hitting the post.

the offside bug is easy to fix. if you touch the ball, / block keepers view / impede defender, you're offside. otherwise you're not. they manage this for when you shoot normally, but what the manual pass involves 'impossible physical computations' or somethin like that?

i don't find it to be game breaking at all. its never simple to score with a manual. there are situations where you can be confident it'll go in, but same with normal shots. playing against someone using manual GK means you will never score if they read you. but this feature is removed in 2009????

[NeoKubrick]

sorry but you're wrong. 8 directions? 360 degrees mate. a millimetre wrong and you're hitting the post.

the offside bug is easy to fix. if you touch the ball, / block keepers view / impede defender, you're offside. otherwise you're not. they manage this for when you shoot normally, but what the manual pass involves 'impossible physical computations' or somethin like that?

i don't find it to be game breaking at all. its never simple to score with a manual. there are situations where you can be confident it'll go in, but same with normal shots. playing against someone using manual GK means you will never score if they read you. but this feature is removed in 2009????

Manual pass can go in eight directions: up, diagonal, down, diagonal, left, diagonal, right, diagonal.

The offside bug isn't an easy fix, because 'shoot' has a different value than 'pass' or 'cross' with respect to the offside value. It would require extra and complicated code to fix it and distinguish between manually passes which are shots and which are passes. It's easy for you and me to distinguish between the two, but for a program, it's very difficult.

[What Lad]

i am playing pro evo 6 on XBOX 360 as well as pro evo 2008 on PS2

and i can tell you it is much more than 8 directions. i am getting a new phone this week, if it's got a lead for the computer, i'll video myself.

manual pass on 2009 for next-gen might have 8 directions, but that's because it's broken.

i understand what you're saying about the manual pass having a different value, but still fail to understand how it can be that complicated to add in.
a: does offside player touch ball? y/n
b: does offside player impede defender y/n
if a&b = no then goal stands

[What Lad]

mate, i am not chatting beans. i am an adult with a life, this is not about some silly quest to big myself up on a pro evo forum. it happens to be a fact that there is already a 360 manual pass system and i will show it to you when i get my phone. yes you are right there is no need for them to develop this system (especially as they are doing it very badly), and yes you are also right they are not aware of what they have got because the offside bug has existed for too many versions.

i can't imagine any of the paid playtesters having the grasp of this function that i've got.

[frost06]

mapping the tricks to the d pad was a bad idea bcuz at times i would be running to goal being chased by a defender and i would try to cut back and i would do a spin move which really sucks

[joekim1]

.. which is completely relevant to this topic?

personally, i don't think konami is too concerned with manual pass because the majority of players don't use it frequently, if at all. the way theyve got it worked out, it can be quite complicated to figure out which direction to push the joystick to make the ball go forward and to the right or backwards and to the left, since you can't just point it where you want it to go. but playing with manual pass really breathes new life into this game, and i feel is how all soccer games should actually be played (as in with manual or manualized passing).

i've seen some crazy vids where none of the plays can be done with regular controls. it brings ur play onto another level. the end.

[What Lad]

yeah its just so much more fun having the ball and knowing that anywhere you see a player, you CAN attempt to give it to him using the analogue stick, rather than turning around, holding the ball waiting for players to run into some of the pre-scripted positions that your normal controls can reach.

also it's a lot less frustrating when you mis-place a pass, because you know the aim and power is your own responsibility, and you can't blame it on dodgy scripted AI controls.


anybody that is still in doubt about the true ability or 360 degree-ness of the manual pass is welcome to add me on xbox live for a demonstration!

my username is What lad
but you'll have to be playing pro evo 6 because lets face it why would anyone play the new ones online? (or at all)

[What Lad]

HERE IS THE UNDISPUTABLE VIDEO EVIDENCE, take note people!! These videos were recorded on Pro Evolution Soccer 6 on XBOX 360. They are also relevant for any PS2 version of the game.

I recorded all of these yesterday.

LONG RANGE MANUAL LOB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vxMR3IhzcU

Here you can see Camoranesi lobbing the goalkeeper from long distance.
SOME IMPORTANT FACTS TO NOTE:
1. Camoranesi has shot accuracy of 75, and a shot technique of 76. Pretty average shooting ability. The chances of him scoring from this range are extremely slim.
2. He scores using his WEAK foot. I don't know exactly what effect the weak foot has over stats, but I know that even the best players will ballon it using their weak foot.

I simply held in the L1 button and pointed the analogue stick at goal. This was recorded during a live match only yesterday.

[What Lad]

TIGHT ANGLE MANUAL SHOT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy20rjQUua0

Gilardino scoring from a tight anglue using the manual pass as a shot.
SOME IMPORTANT FACTS TO NOTE:
1. Most players will miss from this angle, even if facing the goal and completely on-balance.
2. Gilardino is facing away from goal and also running at top speed, pressing shoot now will lead to an awful miskick 99.9% of the time with even the best of players.

I just pointed the right analogue stick at the goal and clicked it. This was recorded during training mode yesterday too.

[What Lad]

Manual pass can go in eight directions: up, diagonal, down, diagonal, left, diagonal, right, diagonal.

Manual passes followed by manual shot video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ77YWjzXUo

Please watch this video and tell me which of those 8 directions the final shot travels in?
IMPORTANT FACTS TO NOTE:
1. The two initial passes travel ahead of the player at just the right weight and direction so that they are controlled in stride, too often the computer AI misinterprets the weight or direction of a pass.
2. The final shot, hit first time, is simply tapped at very slow speed. This is impossible with the shot button.
3. The shot travels in a direction that proves the manual pass/shot is 100% analogue, and surely disproves the idea that they can only travel in 8 directions.

[What Lad]

Mate...

The manual pass is not analogue. I have played every version of PES and have been playing manual passes since the very first one. Never has it ever been analogue, Granted, it may not travel in a perfect diagonal direction and I remember hating the manual pass in PES6 because the AI interfered too much, opting to play the ball more towards the nearest player than into the space that I wanted to play the ball into.

But at the end of the day, you are entitled to believe what you like...so long as you aint harming nobody else that is.
mate, you are in serious SERIOUS denial. did you watch those videos? you aim the analogue, and you click it. NOT towards another player,but towards the goal! What supposed AI routine determines if I hit the post from a tight angle or score? its the position of my analogue stick!

i have been doing this for over a year, i guarantee it is 100% analogue. did you even watch the videos?!

[What Lad]

so i have to make more videos now?

are you trying to tell me if you run at an angle from the goal and point the stick at the goal, the AI does the rest? these goals you're seeing are 'computer guided' from the 8 direction template?

more videos it is then. watch this space. i do hope you're not just one of those stubborn types that won't admit just for the sake of loss of face, because this takes effort man!!

[What Lad]

okay so run in a straight line from centre circle, do not change direction. then manual pass into corner of the goal, from the edge of the box?

ok i will get right on it sir

EDIT: (on a booking, you know!)

Alright here it is. I put Gilardino exactly in the centre on the edge of the box. Then I continued to use the playback button so that each shot is taken from the EXACT same place (you can tell this because you see Toni standing in the same position to the right of goal for each shot). I used behind the camera view because it is frankly easier to aim from here, and more clear to see. Sorry about low picture quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ-viiHK2Ls

[What Lad]

yes, thought it'd all go quiet after that

[FryslansFury]

looks like someone lost this battle and its not What Lad

[What Lad]

yes 2009 has completely gutted the good things about the series, we already knew this.

it's up to you. if you can't be arsed to notice a great gameplay feature, then i dunno what we are all meant to expect from konami in the future. oh wait yes i do. bigger stadiums, higher frame rates, more detailed kit badges, players staying back for a corner, more match balls, a new player on the front cover, new soundtrack, new interface, new tactics, new boots, new goal celebrations, updated transfers, team specific crowd chants, new tricks, more realistic net movement or absolutely anything at all that can distract mr-lowest-common-denominator-£30-that-me-ma-gave-me from realising that he's buying a turd

[What Lad]

i agree. it doesn't necessarily have to be on the right stick, but i think they'd be much better going back to the PES6 engine and further refining it. manual pass could be the left stick, but i think auto passes are also necessary in tight situations... so maybe you could assign a different button to that purpose or something.

i'll probably be playing PES6 online until i'm dead, or konami is. i still think the value of the manual pass is CRIMINALLY undervalued by the entire development team as well as most of the games players. i might make more videos highlighting some of the things you can do

[joekim1]

^ please do. i'm always willing to see what else can be done with this ancient football engine.

[What Lad]

MattheCat: i tried the exact same manual training goal exercise on the PS2 this week. no videos, but i can confirm you were right about that. the PS2 version has 16-direction manual pass, not full analogue.

this doesn't change the fact that the XBOX 360 PES6 has full analogue. i hope to God the new game has full analogue and isn't AI guided. I HOPE THEY LISTENED. i think they listened to my moaning about keeper cursor anyway.

[red]

this doesn't change the fact that the XBOX 360 PES6 has full analogue. i hope to God the new game has full analogue and isn't AI guided. I HOPE THEY LISTENED. i think they listened to my moaning about keeper cursor anyway.

I hope they do too! it is the best thing for those little through balls in to space rather than in to fixed path!

Hope they sort the goals out too, doesnt matter how the goal goes in the CPU should be looking at the placement of players.

And I hope they keep the right stick and r3 option in and not remove the options as in demo.

[Valmighty]

i started to train my manual passes in WE6 and i mastered it in WE7. i played with national champs and they always been amazed how i can do superb pass, even superb goal (lob the keeper from 30 yards or do a beckham-goal from 50 yard when the keeper is not there from doing a clearence), and also a heel foot goal when the player is not looking the net.

PES, from 2008 screw it up by making the pass faster and more ground, the opposite player can always cut my manual pass (or O pass) by head, and if i passed it more high, the ball will be too long and can't stop (every professional footballer can always stop the ball by adding some spin when he pass the ball).

that too-ground-shit was even tamed by me by adding R2 to long manual passes.

and now in PES2010 they change the method again and remove the option to make R3 necesary to press. now we must only use right stick to do manual pass (type 2 in option), but i prefer type 1 (with R3), and now konami make L1+R3 manual keeper! i'm frustated...


oh and konami still didn't fix the freekick shit. it's when you take a FK and the opposite player can have his player stand just right in front of the net. it's ridiculus, real players won't do that

[ceysin]

Agreed %110...

I dont understand why Konami takes out what they did before...

Short socks
Camera tilting
Manual passin (R3)
Global editing
Training challanges

These are all made in previous PES series.. now all of them are taken out... I cant find any suitable and reasonable answer of WHY...

[What Lad]

i started to train my manual passes in WE6 and i mastered it in WE7. i played with national champs and they always been amazed how i can do superb pass, even superb goal (lob the keeper from 30 yards or do a beckham-goal from 50 yard when the keeper is not there from doing a clearence), and also a heel foot goal when the player is not looking the net.

PES, from 2008 screw it up by making the pass faster and more ground, the opposite player can always cut my manual pass (or O pass) by head, and if i passed it more high, the ball will be too long and can't stop (every professional footballer can always stop the ball by adding some spin when he pass the ball).

that too-ground-shit was even tamed by me by adding R2 to long manual passes.

and now in PES2010 they change the method again and remove the option to make R3 necesary to press. now we must only use right stick to do manual pass (type 2 in option), but i prefer type 1 (with R3), and now konami make L1+R3 manual keeper! i'm frustated...


oh and konami still didn't fix the freekick shit. it's when you take a FK and the opposite player can have his player stand just right in front of the net. it's ridiculus, real players won't do that
i think in controller config they still give you the option to allow the click for manual passing. at least i think they do in 2009 (although manual passing has been no good since PES6). without the click, passing is far more difficult because you can't aim before applying power, you have to judge both instantly.

[Valmighty]

what lad, the problem is L1+R3 is now the button for manual GK, i'm affraid konami won't give us the option to do L1+R3 for manual passes.

and i figure out now we can't manual pass well in 1st touch, you have to control it first. what a waste...
i did one-two-three passes well with ground manual pass in the 3rd pass.

[What Lad]

i played the new PES today. you're right, they've removed the ability to fix the manual pass controls. it can't be done properly using just the joystick and not the click...

furthermore, they're STILL using the non-analogue type manual they used in 2009, the one that is AI assisted. the whole point of the manual pass is to ignore the terrible AI and see your own passes, like in PES6. without this feature, the game is dead to me.

it's been fun konami, i've logged more time on ISS and PES than any other game series! but now i think it's clear. you've listened to the fans, you've given them what they want. the reviewers are happy on the main page. clearly i'm a niche player, and you don't make the game how i like it anymore. the manual pass has the power to open up the field of play like no other feature. you had it, but you've broken it now, and that means i won't be playing these games anymore. cheers for the good times!

[requiem7]

Whilst getting humped 9-0 in the process.

The problem with manual passes in past iterations of Pes is that simply weren't really all that manual. For a start, you are stuck with only 8 possible directions but in PES 2009 this is more like 4 directions as most of the time the diagonal stick flick will not register.

In short, the manual pass is a clumsy poorly implemented 'addition' to the game which albeit, does have its uses and as Neokubrik has pointed out, some nefarious game wrecking uses at that. I never knew about the Long Ball Type 5 exploit but I certainly used to take huge revenge on the cut-back queens in PES 2008 with my long pass goals from practically the half way line. This worked until Konami released a patch which simply nerfed the Long high manual pass from a certain area of the field.

If you had played FIFA, you would be in no doubt that using the left stick to implement a first touch control is by far the best thing that the left stick could be used for in footie game. This is somethign which FIFA really has got spot on and hopefully PES will imitate just as FIFA has matched and beaen PES by essentially copying the PES game engine to a great extent but then improving upon it.

Long Ball Type 5 exploit ? Whats that when its at home? The passing has not got any better in PES 2008 to 2009. Not played 2010. Its some problem when the passing in football game detracts from the overall game.