View Full Version : Screenshots, Videos, & Much More!!! - Part 1
SammyGunner11
01-06-2010, 02:31
http://www.videogameszone.de/Pro-Evolution-Soccer-2011-PS3-234159/News/PES-2011-Die-ersten-Screenshots-und-neue-Artworks-enthuellt-749422/
http://www.videogameszone.de/Pro-Evolution-Soccer-2011-PS3-234159/Videos/PES-2011-Video-und-Fotos-vom-Anspiel-Event-749435/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bicuripapagaio/4611411712/
http://www.videogameszone.de/Pro-Evolution-Soccer-2011-PS3-234159/News/PES-2011-PlayStation-Move-Unterstuetzung-geplant-749424/
http://www.vandal.net/avances/ps3/pro-evolution-soccer-2011/12106/1
Enjoy.
Words can't explain how I'm feeling for this game. I'm grinnin' from ear to ear right now. For a guy who already loved PES2010 I know I'll be playing this game for months to come:D
(Also note, I don't care what anyone says about PES2010. 2010 is a decent enough game for me to still be playing it today).
Credits to wenb for all the info
Honestly I simply cannot fathom the utter joy going on from certain people in the community; for example at WENB staff members are going WAY over the top (even for that site).
I went over there and one of the staff commented how he was still "reeling" from the excitement of the Ivory Coast kit being skin tight, now I couldn't help but think how stupid he sounds.
Either that or he has expectations akin to an 11 year old kid.
The main menu is very much like Winning Eleven 8's main menu.
Wide cam pic looks OK and quite realistic but that three of Roma's players have the SAME EXACT animation. 18 months in development and 3 guys are still in the same EXACT position? WTF?
Man oh man, CONAMI is ruining it again lol. All I hear is talk so far and the impressions sure as hell dont sound positive. They are cautious at best -- which frankly is a let-down after all the hype.
It seems like the development is going good so far but it appears they have not yet tackled the button lag problems.
The five page report highlighted some good improvements but did mention that it appears that there is no 360 movement as yet and the players are slow in turning. The button lag is still very evident and the report stated that it did affect gameplay especially on defenders or last minute attacks.
Very early though, and all these can be ironed out easily.
Hopefully
Wide cam pic looks OK and quite realistic but that three of Roma's players have the SAME EXACT animation. 18 months in development and 3 guys are still in the same EXACT position? WTF?
Man oh man, CONAMI is ruining it again lol. All I hear is talk so far and the impressions sure as hell dont sound positive. They are cautious at best -- which frankly is a let-down after all the hype.
They seem to love the passing though. IMO, if there is one thing that the last gen of PES games did better than the current, it was the freedom in passing. This new system seems to have fixed that problem.
It seems like the development is going good so far but it appears they have not yet tackled the button lag problems.
The five page report highlighted some good improvements but did mention that it appears that there is no 360 movement as yet and the players are slow in turning. The button lag is still very evident and the report stated that it did affect gameplay especially on defenders or last minute attacks.
Very early though, and all these can be ironed out easily.
Hopefully
The Spanish article said there is 360 control.
Ultimate777
01-06-2010, 05:02
What absolute gayers! in one of the videos there is clear live in gameplay footage on the big screen and instead of focusing on that the cameraman is focusing on a guy in the audience giggling and acting like a school girl and the rest acting like geeks.
From what I made out the animinations seemed a bit improved and the graphics being a notch above 2010. But still some old animinations from the previous versions where the players are hunched over the ball and the jerk animation when shooting. Also congestion of players all circling around the player with the ball gives concerns.
I dont like how they have copied the trick system from Fifa directing them to be all on the analague stick that doesnt bold to well as i wonder what other aspects they will be implementating from fifa. We dont want two identical games as last year we saw them take ideas from their management mode structure into master league.
They seem to love the passing though. IMO, if there is one thing that the last gen of PES games did better than the current, it was the freedom in passing. This new system seems to have fixed that problem.
The Spanish article said there is 360 control.
Sup Macksam,
I copied the article to google translate so I may have read that incorrectly. Hopefully 360 is there.
Pantilimon
01-06-2010, 07:10
What absolute gayers! in one of the videos there is clear live in gameplay footage on the big screen and instead of focusing on that the cameraman is focusing on a guy in the audience giggling and acting like a school girl and the rest acting like geeks.
From what I made out the animinations seemed a bit improved and the graphics being a notch above 2010. But still some old animinations from the previous versions where the players are hunched over the ball and the jerk animation when shooting. Also congestion of players all circling around the player with the ball gives concerns.
I dont like how they have copied the trick system from Fifa directing them to be all on the analague stick that doesnt bold to well as i wonder what other aspects they will be implementating from fifa. We dont want two identical games as last year we saw them take ideas from their management mode structure into master league.
Perfectly agree with you.The goalkeepers are still fucked up and the animations still shit.This is a joke,konami is a joke...unfuckinbelievable...
Ultimate777
01-06-2010, 07:24
Honestly I simply cannot fathom the utter joy going on from certain people in the community; for example at WENB staff members are going WAY over the top (even for that site).
I went over there and one of the staff commented how he was still "reeling" from the excitement of the Ivory Coast kit being skin tight, now I couldn't help but think how stupid he sounds.
Either that or he has expectations akin to an 11 year old kid.
Thats the new generation fans of the series im afraid where presentation and image is more important than the actual in game genetics and playability. A few nice added stadiums, updated kits, faces and boots and adaptations from fifa where most boarded ship to and you will certaintly get certain people 'reeling' from the excitement and satisfaction of simple aesthetics.
GuNNerZae
01-06-2010, 08:35
less than impressed and i'm not bloody surprised, the clowns have fooled us again.
woodhead4780
01-06-2010, 08:43
Thought the gameplay represented PES 2010.
Doesn't appear to have moved on - gameplay wise!
Kevthedrummer
01-06-2010, 11:42
Thought the gameplay represented PES 2010.
Doesn't appear to have moved on - gameplay wise!
hmm true, I did read in one of the articles that they showed PES 10 first to compare it, but in the video it does seem that they are looking at 2011.
Worrying.
HanleysEars
01-06-2010, 11:51
dont have a go at me lads but i found something that could of been filmed from that leaked video and mistaken for pes2011
We're shown gameplay clips from PES 2010 followed by this year's version to highlight changes and improvements.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/pro-evolution-soccer-2011-hands-on?page=2
i could be wrong tho! and i agree with the posters about the overhype of people, its just feels wrong.
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/109/1092937p2.html
Jinks, feints and dummies – another area that's seen a lot of additions this year and intended to be truly effective maneuvers, rather than just 'showcasing' as in previous iterations - didn't really work well, at least not in the build we played, and there were many instances of players stuttering or being stunned into inactivity after a tackle or jostle. Speaking of jostling, it seemed very one-sided, with the CPU players able to knock us off the ball far more easily than we could return the favor.
Occasionally, the keeper would also become frozen in place, standing motionless and watching the ball sail past him into the back of the net; another annoying bug that we're confident will be addressed.
Oh dear. Not much time left before the game must be finished.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeuxvideo.f r%2Fjeux%2Fpes-2011%2Farticle.html&sl=fr&tl=en
Stormrider
01-06-2010, 20:48
I dont like how they have copied the trick system from Fifa directing them to be all on the analague stick that doesnt bold to well as i wonder what other aspects they will be implementating from fifa. We dont want two identical games as last year we saw them take ideas from their management mode structure into master league.
You got it the other way around. It was Fifa who borrowed the stick trick system as Pes has had it for ages but got rid of it in 2009. Also the tricks seem more simple to perform in Pes 2011 compared to Fifa 10, I think many of them only need to press 1 direction. Also Fifa doesn't have custom tricks/combos.
On paper I like this system better. Seems much easier and more effective than trying to remember a million different complex combinations in Fifa 10.
the fans singing bit seems good.
New vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFv3kelbjRk
Kevthedrummer
03-06-2010, 17:47
hmm quite interesting that! Certainly more insightful than any other footage I've seen. I know it's early days but those animations don't look great, and the nets are still dodgy, but note the camera shot - it's much more angled like how I used to adjust the camera in the PS2 days...
Ultimate777
03-06-2010, 18:44
It looks absolutely shit to be honest. Suppose they been working hard at refining the graphics but yet once again the gameplay seems have taken a back seat on the agenda. I certaintly hope the goalkeepers dont just stand there doing nothing like what you see at 1.10 min. The animations look very fast as if they were rushed. Seems like you will get the same empty hollowness feeling you get when score a goal on fifa. I think konami should call it a day if this one fails as obviously been working hard at this version but from the looks of it I think a lot of fans will be very disappointed this October. Then again there are those who will lap up the the new nets, stadiums and boots and think its a great game
I'm not sure what to make of the video to be honest. Some aspects of it were good (i.e. the jostling animations), but other aspects were bad. The running animations shown at around 1:07 look very odd indeed and the brief clip of gameplay footage from the dev kit at 1:16 looks strangely like PES2010. Having said that, it would be a very negative thing if all of the classic pro evo gameplay elements were lost in PES2011 in the attempt to make a "better" game. I don't want it to be a straight up copy of FIFA.
Going off what i've read /seen so far, i'm really not sure what to expect from PES 2011. I think i'm just going to wait until the demo hits in a few months before making any further judgements. Fingers crossed we'll have a great game.
Ultimate777
03-06-2010, 20:40
I lol'd at the running animation when I first saw it. I thought you cant be serious
James_dean
03-06-2010, 21:05
The animations seem good to me, not perfect but.... Are we maybe expecting to much?
muzza798
03-06-2010, 21:12
Dont know what you lot are talking about. The graphics look insane, the models look lifelike, the tempo seemed right, the weight of the ball looked ten times better than 2010, the through ball played in was weighted perfectly, the jostling seemed good and the goal seemed bigger.
I am sold on this game. The gameplay will atleast be a 8/10 for me + all the features like CL, ML (CL), World Cups, BAL, Online ML. All this + now class gameplay creates an overall package that is just going abouve and beyond what we expected. Theres so many improvements and adjustments that it cant fail.
Option files for 360, completely new tactics + sliders from 2010, gameplay looks overhauled, new stadia, new licenses...the list goes on. This game will be fucking epic. Imagine having this and Halo Reach. Halo 2 was the best Halo and Pes 6 (imo) is the best Pes, both were at their height in 2005/06 for me and now its like going back and being back at that time in my life where each of my fave games were at their best. Simarly each game has recently had a slump but each looks like being back on the mend.
Ultimate777
03-06-2010, 21:33
The animations seem good to me, not perfect but.... Are we maybe expecting to much?
Nah we are not expecting too much. Ever since the transition to the PS3 the amination and movement has deteriorated where the players jerk when shooting while looking static and unnatural. They choose to attempt to diving header instead of effortlessly vollying the ball when you want them to. Its become ever more robotic and predictable where instead of good play and tactian is rewarded, fast players have become the rulers of the seperating the final outcome to the result. Its got the the point where the variety of goals are limited just look at this video of PES5 and you'll never be able to pull of some the volleys and shots. The smoothness,fluidity and fun has gone and been replaced with stuttering, rigidity and predictable gamplay which what needs to be brought back imo. Not arcade animinations where everything is done for you
Check out the animation and the organic way the players move freely in the PS2 series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRy_7Rj6l4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFv3kelbjRk&feature=player_embedded#!
Excellent video.
All looks pretty good to me so far! Couldnt really tell if the jostling was from PES2010 or PES2011 though, and im hoping the keeper not trying to save the shot near the start was because he didnt have any commands or something technical...
Other than that, looking forward to it! The FM style tactics is awesome :) Cant wait to be passing with the power bar, makes all the difference in my game really.
I'm must agree on the running animation. It doesnt look good, but otherwise then that everything was good in that vid. :D
Maybe I missed something but what's wrong with the running animation? Doesn't look any worse that FIFA's tbh.
muzza798
04-06-2010, 03:40
Maybe I missed something but what's wrong with the running animation? Doesn't look any worse that FIFA's tbh.
That's what I thought. Not only do they seem fine, they seem good imo. Also to people who complain about the keeper no.1 its on a low difficulty setting and no.2 the annimations havnt fully been added.
That video was good tbh. The animations seem improved, but by how much? I still can't say because it was short and we didn't get to see a short match. Only very short clips.
Anyway looking forward to seeing more videos.
Ultimate777
04-06-2010, 07:12
Maybe I missed something but what's wrong with the running animation? Doesn't look any worse that FIFA's tbh.
Are you turning blind my brother? Watch again at 1:03 when the player runs on to the through ball, the legging animaion clearly looks like it was adapted from forrest gump.
The good news is they still have quite a bit of time left to polish up things like the goalkeepers where Im hearing everywhere that they are still crap along with the reported stuttering.
muzza798
04-06-2010, 10:53
I think that guy runs allright. Its not beautiful but its fine. Its probably Vucic or som1 not that good from roma. I'm sure the better players run a lot smoother
Are you turning blind my brother? Watch again at 1:03 when the player runs on to the through ball, the legging animaion clearly looks like it was adapted from forrest gump.
The good news is they still have quite a bit of time left to polish up things like the goalkeepers where Im hearing everywhere that they are still crap along with the reported stuttering.
Look again at the video and the brief close up clip of Francesco Totti jostling with a Barca defender at 0:58. Again, what's wrong with it?
Ultimate777
04-06-2010, 12:58
Nothing wrong with the animation close at 0.58 with the jostling - looks good, but take into account its probably a reply slow motion and we all know how good the replays close up can make the game appear. The other clip I quoted above is more telling because its live action from a further viewpoint and the running looks conspicuously questionable.
^That's a point but note something there.
In that video there's no animations shown while playing the game in live camera. That's when proper judgements can be made because in that video there's only close ups and very small clips.
So it's better if we hold out judgements when proper gameplay videos are released. I prefer if we judge it by the demo but anyway.:)
Whether its a replay or not is irrelevant; a replay of PES2008-2010 will still show the same sh*tty animation as a game in full motion. I didn't notice anything wrong with the sprint.
fucks sakes people , its freakin first week of JUNE .. they have a lot of time to fix things , i dont think they were gonna invite some of the most critical people in the industry to show them last years game with new graphics and tweaks... weve seen nothing ! period !
agree with the wenb podcast , we could have a completly different game from what the reporters saw by the time its E3 . this game is suppose to be released in october , thats 4-3months away . And these reports were done in MAY ! released JUNE , we might have a totally different game even as we speak . LOL @ these doubters shit sakes, you aint seen shit ! , nothings final.
im keeping my judjment until late august , that seems most sensible, [for grown ups lol ]
[QUOTE=shaun7;1622791. I prefer if we judge it by the demo but anyway.:)[/QUOTE]
im loosing faith in demos m8 ! , so many games where the finish product was different ! . id push it until i play the final code ! as its most sensible lol
still nothing compared to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbEKVABJEb8
once konami bring it upto these standards ill give pes a miss
shankly is god
04-06-2010, 14:53
fucks sakes people , its freakin first week of JUNE .. they have a lot of time to fix things , i dont think they were gonna invite some of the most critical people in the industry to show them last years game with new graphics and tweaks... weve seen nothing ! period !
agree with the wenb podcast , we could have a completly different game from what the reporters saw by the time its E3 . this game is suppose to be released in october , thats 4-3months away . And these reports were done in MAY ! released JUNE , we might have a totally different game even as we speak . LOL @ these doubters shit sakes, you aint seen shit ! , nothings final.
im keeping my judjment until late august , that seems most sensible, [for grown ups lol ]
well said! making predictions now is silly! wait untill the game is in full swing before comments are made! i firmly believe the konami press release was just a stunt, the real news/ gameplay will be released near gamescon!
wonder what the folks at EA are gona show at E3
wonder what the folks at EA are gona show at E3
im actually wondering what do they have to show... ? better graphics ?
shooting better ?
i play fifa wc and it is becomming more frustrating as you play ... i h8 the shooting , the game is literally , guess through pass , run shoot.
if fifa 11 is going to be like this ... i have a good bet it will be on the lines ... im definetly avoiding it, even if pes 11 is a wreck [which it wont be lol], i think it will be a year without footie games , thank god for cod black ops, and fallout vegas .
still nothing compared to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbEKVABJEb8
once konami bring it upto these standards ill give pes a miss
Really? You want the ball to change direction without anyone touching it?
no the animations of 360 degrees is what I want
im loosing faith in demos m8 ! , so many games where the finish product was different ! . id push it until i play the final code ! as its most sensible lol
True unfortunately. However if you want to judge a game before you buy it, then it's the best bet.
But you can still judge it by videos of the final code + the demo. I think that'll be fair enough.:)
Oh and the 360 movement in pes 11? They said it's there. Well I hope they made it right this time. On those small videos the 360 is felt more, but it's still not enough to base an argument on.
I want proper footage of gameplay + goals and replays like they did before pes 5.
Ultimate777
04-06-2010, 20:58
Really? You want the ball to change direction without anyone touching it?
lol I think the animations and fluidity of skill performed in ISS3 are more appropiate that I would love to see in 2011 but doubt it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftwQpZZiIW8&feature=player_embedded#!
Just look how smooth in motion and elegant the players are while the ball doesnt have a mind of its own like in the perfect striker version
still nothing compared to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbEKVABJEb8
once konami bring it upto these standards ill give pes a miss
We haven't seen any gameplay shots that suggest or dismiss 360 degree motion in this game and you're criticizing already?
lol I think the animations and fluidity of skill performed in ISS3 are more appropiate that I would love to see in 2011 but doubt it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftwQpZZiIW8&feature=player_embedded#!
Just look how smooth in motion and elegant the players are while the ball doesnt have a mind of its own like in the perfect striker version
Gotta admit, that looks years ahead of its time.
thenotsogood
05-06-2010, 10:45
I'm sure I read a post or two in here where FIFA fans are slated for liking the aesthetics of the game, yet there's people complaining about the animations being unrealistic. I'm not bothered about animations as long as the game flows realistically, sure, you can have a robot doing the running, but if the ball travels the way you'd expect it (weight, bouncing, curl, deflections) then I'm happy.
I liked PES last-gen because the gameplay flowed as you'd expect, and it was fun to play. As long as that happens this term, I'm buying.
That said, I'm liking the looks of this game, so I'm not writing it off. Gonna play the demo and make a decision.
i actually dont mind a late release for the game and demo .....
That ISS 3 video looks awesome! How did PES drift away from that! At this present time, i think i would rather play that then PES2010...
Ultimate777
05-06-2010, 15:09
That ISS 3 video looks awesome! How did PES drift away from that!.
Teamvision AI system is what ruined the series.
That ISS 3 video looks awesome! How did PES drift away from that! At this present time, i think i would rather play that then PES2010...
we will never get the answer i think, but it really is unbelievable.
what the **** went wrong.
Literally, all the movements in ISS 3 looked so smooth. They had loads of skills and everything which looked easy to use! Im not one for using skills in matches however. Ball physics looked pretty good too. Wish XBOX live would put it up for download as full games for cheap...
and all the players stood straight why are they using these crouch animations now
Literally, all the movements in ISS 3 looked so smooth. They had loads of skills and everything which looked easy to use! Im not one for using skills in matches however. Ball physics looked pretty good too. Wish XBOX live would put it up for download as full games for cheap...
No, they didn't. Everything in that video looked smooth but that was a skills demonstration. It's not the game in full flight.
Yea thats what i meant, in that video :)
Ultimate777
05-06-2010, 20:19
* New gamplay footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twTHET89dRI&feature=player_embedded
The atmosphere, camera broadcast view and passing seems improved with freely weighted passes as you can see when Valencia passes to Park Ji Sung. The pace seems much more measured and controlled and the defenders dont look like they all race towards the player like rapid dogs so thats a plus. However some of the animations still look questionable and thats a worry.
thenotsogood
05-06-2010, 21:07
Now that reminds me of PES10 :/
Ultimate777
05-06-2010, 21:26
I agree there are many snippets from 2010 from the entrance to the graphics, animations and layout. Another thing I dont like is the way the players disposess the opposition, they just charge into the player and get the ball. Thats not how it works in real life. The tackle whether its a slide or standing requires measured precision and patience otherwise the player will do a trick or pass to knock it past him. Still difficult to make a firm judgement from a 2min clip but again the improvements look miniature and realistically from all the videos I've seen we are looking at pes 2010.5. Far from a revolution that was promised
Good Vid. Some Pass Animations look good and some look weird. That sharp turn seems to still be there. Never liked that shot animation either when Berba is shooting but i can live that. :)
James_dean
05-06-2010, 22:34
* New gamplay footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twTHET89dRI&feature=player_embedded
The atmosphere, camera broadcast view and passing seems improved with freely weighted passes as you can see when Valencia passes to Park Ji Sung. The pace seems much more measured and controlled and the defenders dont look like they all race towards the player like rapid dogs so thats a plus. However some of the animations still look questionable and thats a worry.
Now that was a good video. Now I´m looking forward to Pes 2011 :)
Now that was a good video. Now I´m looking forward to Pes 2011 :)
just saw this video .... its tooo early people , somtimes i think konami took themselves in a great new direction , at the same time shot themselves in the foot showing video footage, which some twats cant get into their heads that its nowhere near finish, and its from may , and its out in october.
I'm definitely liking what I'm seeing. It has that early code, rough around the edges look about it, and there's definitely some transition animations to be added, but its a clear improvement from PES2010.
Ultimate777
05-06-2010, 23:32
just saw this video .... its tooo early people , somtimes i think konami took themselves in a great new direction , at the same time shot themselves in the foot showing video footage, which some twats cant get into their heads that its nowhere near finish, and its from may , and its out in october.
The only twat is yourself if you believe the game is no where near finished. Its actually very closer to the finsihed version than you think. This has been in development for nearly 2years. 3 months is not not a lot of time , they'll be using that period to polish and tweak it up, ironing out some of the animinations and detecting bugs, glitches etc before its sent off for marketing. There will not be any added features or extra development in terms of gameplay. The code that you basically see from the video (which are from June not May)is what you are generally going to get in the final release in terms of gameplay bar a few upgraded animations to fix some of the AI which are going to be smoothened out
Now how will have konami shot themselves in the foot by releasing video footage pray tell? Should they not release a demo aswell and put the game straight on the shelves? Do you actually think before posting? If the game is good enough then it will speak for itself and konami as a company should be confident in their product and should be eager to actually show the masses their socalled new revolutionary game instead of hiding behind hype and PR
The only twat is yourself if you believe the game is no where near finished. Its actually very closer to the finsihed version than you think. This has been in development for nearly 2years. 3 months is not not a lot of time , they'll be using that period to polish and tweak it up, ironing out some of the animinations and detecting bugs, glitches etc before its sent off for marketing. There will not be any added features or extra development in terms of gameplay. The code that you basically see from the video (which are from June not May)is what you are generally going to get in the final release in terms of gameplay bar a few upgraded animations to fix some of the AI which are going to be smoothened out
Now how will have konami shot themselves in the foot by releasing video footage pray tell? Should they not release a demo aswell and put the game straight on the shelves? Do you actually think before posting? If the game is good enough then it will speak for itself and konami as a company should be confident in their product and should be eager to actually show the masses their socalled new revolutionary game instead of hiding behind hype and PR
cut down on the foul language!!! anyways 3 months is alot of dev time, just remember konami implemented 16 way control in august which was 2 months before release, all konami have to do is optimise the code so that post processing and anti aliasing is more efficient, animations wise we won't see anything concrete till gamescom and bugs can ironed out by patches later on in the year :)
Lets not forget it was an early May build seeing as it was on the headquarters tour, and Konami had since said a lot of animations haven't been put in yet, including the new varied pressuring system. Plus its being used purely for implement sound effects to the game so there's every possibility the build may have been even older than May.
James_dean
06-06-2010, 02:40
From the video it looks very promising. I´m not from WENB jesus people who hype everything up like little kids but the animations in that video just look very good for an early code and as someone said above, alot more animations as missing so yeah it really looks good and I think this upcoming game will at least be better than the previous 3 games :)
I really need a great Pes game this year. If it turns out to be great then I wont have to escape back to Pes 5 or 6 for at least 3-4 years if Pes 2012,13,14,15 turn out to be a big mistake like 08,09.
Shake it.
fucks sakes people , its freakin first week of JUNE .. they have a lot of time to fix things , i dont think they were gonna invite some of the most critical people in the industry to show them last years game with new graphics and tweaks... weve seen nothing ! period !
agree with the wenb podcast , we could have a completly different game from what the reporters saw by the time its E3 . this game is suppose to be released in october , thats 4-3months away . And these reports were done in MAY ! released JUNE , we might have a totally different game even as we speak . LOL @ these doubters shit sakes, you aint seen shit ! , nothings final.
im keeping my judjment until late august , that seems most sensible, [for grown ups lol ]
Dude,
WENB -- can you call that a forum?
http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2941
There's no freedom of speech in there, and Adam, what the f*ck is wrong with that guy? he lies to your face repetitively and still has the cojones to disrespect you in new ways.
I think is really unfortunate that people like Adam are in such a position, he is just a fan-boy with little idea of how PES can improve: he'll take whatever Konami gives him.
It's very unfortunate that he has the power of censoring feedback, and it's even more unfortunate, how many people waste their time listening to him and his giant ego.
----------------------------------------------
As for PES 2011,
The game is looking very good, I have nothing to complain about other than the fact it will be yet another 10 Minute Simulation.
But as far as 10 Minute Simulations go, I have no doubts that it will be the best PES to date.
James_dean
06-06-2010, 02:55
Dude,
WENB -- can you call that a forum?
http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2941
There's no freedom of speech in there, and Adam, what the f*ck is wrong with that guy? he lies to your face repetitively and still has the cojones to show his face all around the place.
I think is really unfortunate that people like Adam are in such a position, he is just a fan-boy with little idea of how PES can improve: he'll take whatever Konami gives him.
Spot on there.
My personal feelings towards WENB and their staff is that Konami are simply paying them money for their massive hype towards every upcoming Pes game. I listen to every podcast they do and if they are not accepting money from Konami then they must be just simply retarded fan boys, call me paranoid :) but what´s going on at WENB?
With respect for retarded people.
Spot on there.
My personal feelings towards WENB and their staff is that Konami are simply paying them money for their massive hype towards every upcoming Pes game. I listen to every podcast they do and if they are not accepting money from Konami then they must be just simply retarded, call me paranoid :) but what´s going on at WENB?
With respect for retarded people.
In my opinion, I don't think they get paid by Konami...
I think it's more simple, WENB are just fan-boys with no tolerance towards freedom of speech; the same exact thing happens in PESGaming's homepage... the only difference is that in here, we don't have Adam closing-down whatever he thinks should be closed-down.
Yes, we do -technically- have "freedom of speech" here at PESGaming, but the vast majority of people who actually comment on the home-page are fan-boys. And these fan-boys do have the power of censoring your comments, just like Adam does with WENB,
I think the problem is simply a failure to communicate,
Fan-boys prefer to hear Adam feeding them lies week in week out; rather than having to THINK when they talk... they just want to hear what they want to hear -- WENB tells them what they want to hear,
I don't blame them, I just think it's unfortunate and boring that "grown-ups" are doing it week in week out,
Joga_Bonito_91
06-06-2010, 04:38
In my opinion, I don't think they get paid by Konami...
I think it's more simple, WENB are just fan-boys with no tolerance towards freedom of speech; the same exact thing happens in PESGaming's homepage... the only difference is that in here, we don't have Adam closing-down whatever he thinks should be closed-down.
Yes, we do -technically- have "freedom of speech" here at PESGaming, but the vast majority of people who actually comment on the home-page are fan-boys. And these fan-boys do have the power of censoring your comments, just like Adam does with WENB,
I think the problem is simply a failure to communicate,
Fan-boys prefer to hear Adam feeding them lies week in week out; rather than having to THINK when they talk... they just want to hear what they want to hear -- WENB tells them what they want to hear,
I don't blame them, I just think it's unfortunate and boring that "grown-ups" are doing it week in week out,
And where exactly does this sudden attack come from? And where during this year has Adam said anything from the truth? You are so full of pessimism, what's the point? we all want pes to be great, and you are taking a really illogical point of view.
I'm not a fan-boy, I love football, and nobody on that forum is, we all respect EA and what they do with fifa, you are just giving us shit just like the fan-boy's that you condemn, look in the mirror.
Oh and onther thing, if you do think we are a bunch of fan-boy's, why are you so compelled to make your voice heard? is this a war or something? do we interfere with your pessemistic views with great and refreshing optimism for a game that obviously will give fifa 11 a serious run for its money and give as a footballing experience we have been aching for? Konami really has stepped up it's game, maybe you should wake up and smell the flowers.
James_dean
06-06-2010, 05:26
And where exactly does this sudden attack come from? And where during this year has Adam said anything from the truth? You are so full of pessimism, what's the point? we all want pes to be great, and you are taking a really illogical point of view.
I'm not a fan-boy, I love football, and nobody on that forum is, we all respect EA and what they do with fifa, you are just giving us shit just like the fan-boy's that you condemn, look in the mirror.
Oh and onther thing, if you do think we are a bunch of fan-boy's, why are you so compelled to make your voice heard? is this a war or something? do we interfere with your pessemistic views with great and refreshing optimism for a game that obviously will give fifa 11 a serious run for its money and give as a footballing experience we have been aching for? Konami really has stepped up it's game, maybe you should wake up and smell the flowers.
Look lad, nobody respects EA. It´s a massive evil corp. Just look what they did to Black and white 2, and many other games. And yes it´s a war, we got Pesgaming.com and WENB. Pesgaming.com gives us free speech, WENB dousnt. And about Adam. A deffo retard or paid by Konami for his super hype towards the upcoming Pes games. Just remember what Adam said about 09 and 10. So what did he say just few months before these games? It´s pretty easy to look up
And where exactly does this sudden attack come from? And where during this year has Adam said anything from the truth? You are so full of pessimism, what's the point? we all want pes to be great, and you are taking a really illogical point of view.
I'm not a fan-boy, I love football, and nobody on that forum is, we all respect EA and what they do with fifa, you are just giving us shit just like the fan-boy's that you condemn, look in the mirror.
Oh and onther thing, if you do think we are a bunch of fan-boy's, why are you so compelled to make your voice heard? is this a war or something? do we interfere with your pessemistic views with great and refreshing optimism for a game that obviously will give fifa 11 a serious run for its money and give as a footballing experience we have been aching for? Konami really has stepped up it's game, maybe you should wake up and smell the flowers.
I was compelled, but I am not compelled by it anymore... because I know Konami will do whatever they want, they will certainly not listen to someone like me, because most fan-boys will tag me as a "pessimist"
I have lost a lot of interest, whilst I do enjoy both PES 2010 and FIFA 2010 every now and then; I simply do not enjoy 10 Minute Simulations that much, because I know the BOTTOM LINE about it.
At the same time, I am fully convinced that PES 2011 will be a great 10 Minute Simulation. I have no doubts about that.
Why the attack on Adam from WENB?
Because he disrespected me for no reason, and he does the same thing to a lot of people; that's not cool, you should not abuse of your position.
And also, because WENB is not a reliable source for information; everyone should know that after PES 2009 and PES 2010.
And yes, WENB is full of fan-boys like yourself; have I said that I am better than any fan-boy?
I don't remember ever saying that, I just don't have time to waste on a site like WENB, I know what the fan-boys want, I know what they will tell me, I know the drill; and I'm just not interested in wasting my time with them, I have other interests; not better interests, just different interests.
I want a 20 Minute Simulation,
Fan-boys do not want a 20 Minute Simulation, and they are not open to any type of conversation about it, they have their minds made-up about what they like and what they don't like.
I was like them once, and I don't blame them; I just prefer not to waste my time with people who do not really want to hear my opinion,
And yes, a lot of fan-boys love Football; when I was a fan-boy I loved Football just as much as I do know... but there is a difference between loving Football and knowing how a video game can and should improve.
When I was a fan-boy I was thinking the wrong way, I was just scratching the surface; on the other hand, now that I am no longer a fan-boy, I can see that the key problem has to do with time... a 10 Minute Simulation has clear limitations.
You can polish the turd as much as you like, at the end of the day, a 10 Minute Simulation will always play the same brainless pin-ball game.
As for the "pessimism" -- I have no interest in that, if you read my posts without prejudice, with an open-mind, you would know that I have no interest in spreading pessimism; my intent is 100% constructive.
And by the way, I do not need to be a fan-boy in order to enjoy PES 2010,
You asked me why I felt compelled to voice my opinion; now I ask you the same thing, why do you feel compelled to interrupt in a conversation that does not concerns you?
I don't mind about people joining in on the discussion, but since you asked me -- do we interfere with your pessimistic views?
Yes, in case you haven't noticed, I did not quoted you, I was not talking to you; so YES, you did interrupted my "pessimistic" rant.
Perhaps it is you who needs to look in the mirror,
GuNNerZae
06-06-2010, 08:37
why is it that things like 360 degree dribbling, dribbling animations or anything related to improving dribbling aren't mentioned in the development in this game.
Verily it's the games dribbling mechanisms that give it the 'robotic' feel. Those ugly sharp turns and i'm going to have to say the 16-axis dribbling system really destroys whats left of the games fluidity. someone please tell me that something is going to be done about the godforsaken dribbling
i was just thinking about the dribbling yesterday. the two main problems with current pes is the lack of more various dribbling speeds (especially small, delicate touches) and the pinpoint passing of every single player.
Ultimate777
06-06-2010, 11:15
why is it that things like 360 degree dribbling, dribbling animations or anything related to improving dribbling aren't mentioned in the development in this game.
Verily it's the games dribbling mechanisms that give it the 'robotic' feel. Those ugly sharp turns and i'm going to have to say the 16-axis dribbling system really destroys whats left of the games fluidity. someone please tell me that something is going to be done about the godforsaken dribbling
Did you not see the dribbing in the video? thats basically it, thats the new 360 movement that they have been hollowering about! Then they will mention its 360 movement on the back of the cover. Quick turns and automatic feints is what konami consider 360.
I looked at the video again and it looks as though its going to feel similar in style and movement to 10. They still look incredibly unrealistic while performing tricks and turns there is no foot planting or delicate touches of the ball which tie in with the animations just arcade style do it for your dribbling thats easily nullified by the opposition
Its funny how those saying its too early to judge are getting excited while making statements how great it is and how much better its going to be than 10 yet we are not allowed to mention any criticism of what we see from the videos and the reviews that are already published.
The mexican magazine editor Jjoseca Q&A at the end of May seems spot on with their assessments. I've highlighted the main points which I've come to notice my self in all the videos I've seen without needing to play it. It just backs up my suspicions that we are not going to get a complete revotionary overhaul as promised by konami. So for the fourth year it will be more lies and spin.
- New moves, on the defense, a new way to deal with tactics, new trick system (this we already know).
- Master League Online, Copa dos Libertadores, a new editing system with a surprise they didn't want to tell us (we also know already).
- It's much more harder, because there's no AI assistance, and about 15/20 players have a "new" ability called "Speed Star".
Q: Did you liked the game?
A: I did, because i'm a veteran, but without A.I assistance, newbies/casual gamers will suffer, because it's much harder.
Q: But, I'm going to ask you something. Are the changes radical? Is it much better than all the next gen and PS2 games?
A: No, not yet, we are still waiting for that PES. Sorry.
Q: Are you saying it isn't good?
A: No no, I'm not saying it isn't good, it's just that it won't be the "different" PES we are waiting for.
Q: Are the animations good at least? What about response times?
A: Animations look good, and the time of response is weird at first, because you have no AI help, but you'll get used to it. For the veterans it will be nice to get back to the roots, but newbies will suffer at the beggining.
Q: What the about the goalkeepers and ball and players physics?
A: Goalkeepers were bad, but what we have seen was at 70% so I expect them to improve, because they were too bad. Ball physic is similiar to PES 2010 and players physics was improved, especially on body-on-body collisions.
Q: Is the game similiar to last FIFA editions? Or nothing like it.
A: Well the new trick system is a bit like FIFA's one, but apart from that, no they aren't alike.
I can tell you from now, all seabass has done is started to notice sales begin to drop and see more and more fans moving to fifa. So he has sat down played fifa to see what the fuss is about and taken ideas that he believes will bring it to more of their level so he can market it towards the newer generation of fifa jumpers and still keep the remaining konami fan boys who fall the recycled shit every year instead of being original. What we are going to be left with, are two subpar football games because fifa will be doing the same thing, busy stealing ideas watching what konami are doing, while left with its core flaws and konami will be busy stealing ideas from fifa while still left with its core flaws in engine.
Lets summarise the main new additions for pes2010 and see how original they are
New additions are all tricks to right analogue stick (we've seen this in Fifa)
New passing power Bar (we've seen this in Fifa)
Manual control of player without AI assistence (we've seen this in Fifa)
Better collision (In the video I posted you can see they dont actually come off that great in live gameplay but sure on the replys it will look real cool for the easily pleased!)
Guaranteed lame goalkeepers for the 3rd year in a row
Ball physics are still going to be the same based off 2010
New animinations although they are still clearly using similar build to 10 so once again we are stuck with ape like looking hunchbacks )
I struggle to see the optimism as from what I've seen and heard it looks simply like a patch. I sincerly hope I'm proven wrong.
GuNNerZae
06-06-2010, 11:42
any gameplay videos gonna be revealed come june 9th ?
filthydani
06-06-2010, 12:06
I have been banned so many times at WENB simply for criticizing the game which is what a real pes fan should do to make the game better, but adam is a guy who doesn’t care much about the game and wants to hype the game as much as he can to get some cash from konami and get many visitors, if people said the game is bad, it wont help with the sales for the game and it will decrease the the amount of people who visit their site and that makes him lose a lot of cash, so he just wants the game to look so perfect to benefit from konami and wenb fans
filthydani
06-06-2010, 12:11
I looked at the video again and it looks as though its going to feel similar in style and movement to 10. They still look incredibly unrealistic while performing tricks and turns there is no foot planting or delicate touches of the ball which tie in with the animations just arcade style do it for your dribbling thats easily nullified by the opposition
.
Wow! and i thought i am the only one who thinks the movement is basically like pes 2010, 2009, 2008! The movement in that video is a joke, the auto side steps look retarded, player movement is the biggest problem in ps3, and looking at pes2011, its basically the same shit!!
u guys needs 2 relax
everybody knows with pes 2008, pes 2009 and pes 2010 you can play a better game of football - real football
so u guys complain 2 a pes website about how bad pes is - how sad is that?
Gents, this thread is supposed to be about PES videos ect... so give the WENB stuff a rest.
GuNNerZae
06-06-2010, 12:32
Gents, this thread is supposed to be about PES videos ect... so give the WENB stuff a rest.
you're exactly right. on the topic... whens the next video or piece of footage going to be revealed regarding the 2011 version?
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 12:38
I have been banned so many times at WENB simply for criticizing the game which is what a real pes fan should do to make the game better, but adam is a guy who doesn’t care much about the game and wants to hype the game as much as he can to get some cash from konami and get many visitors, if people said the game is bad, it wont help with the sales for the game and it will decrease the the amount of people who visit their site and that makes him lose a lot of cash, so he just wants the game to look so perfect to benefit from konami and wenb fans
There is something not quite right over at WENB. Its very restrictive in terms of what you can say. Most of the time its like walking on egg-shells. There's no denying that the mods and forummers are huge fans over there but its sometimes like Pleasantville, FFS. I do think WENB has some kind of relationship with Konami which both sides will not reveal, as I find the overt positivity even in the face of undeniable facts a huge turn-off.
The fact that some of the non-British forummers (e.g. those who don't reside in the UK) feel the need to defend WENB/PES from every barb & criticism - even when justified - is pretty annoying. Its like having a PES Defence Force.
We'll see I suppose. If PES2011 turns out as good as its been hyped then fair play. But for a game that's been supposedly 2 years in the making, and for the most recent video released yesterday to show the problems still to be rectified with a maximum of at least 3 months development time, I'm beginning to think its going to be another year of unfulfilled promises.
Tech_Skill
06-06-2010, 12:50
There is something not quite right over at WENB. Its very restrictive in terms of what you can say. Most of the time its like walking on egg-shells.
end of, ive been saying this about them for ages now.
In terms of the new you tube video showing gameplay, i liked it actually, the animations looked improved to me, i think there was one where busquets trapped the ball nicely and the running animations looked better to me also. You know what tho, i would like them to take a bit of power off the shooting, ball goes like a fucking rockets everytime in pes.
Gents, this thread is supposed to be about PES videos ect... so give the WENB stuff a rest.
Immediately followed by 2 posts :faceplm:
Seriously, leave the WENB stuff elsewhere and stay on topic gents. Future offenders get a booking.
Ultimate777
06-06-2010, 12:54
Can we cut with the WENB crap.We know the problems with the forum. If you dont like their forum, stay away, its that simple. Your computres doesnt automatically load up connecting you to their site. You make the choice to visit yourself when there are alternatives, where you can have your say and where there is a wider range of discussion.
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 12:54
In terms of the new you tube video showing gameplay, i liked it actually, the animations looked improved to me, i think there was one where busquets trapped the ball nicely and the running animations looked better to me also. You know what tho, i would like them to take a bit of power off the shooting, ball goes like a fucking rockets everytime in pes.
What do you reckon about the lovely bit in the video near the end where Ibrahimovic takes the ball, jogs then suddenly breaks into a sprint then shoots? That was a blast from the past - I've missed being able to do that in recent PES'.
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 12:57
Immediately followed by 2 posts :faceplm:
Seriously, leave the WENB stuff elsewhere and stay on topic gents. Future offenders get a booking.
Duly noted. Looking forward to engaging in some grown-up debate with everyone on here.
I enjoyed the new video :)
The way the camera is placed at the kick-off and then drifts up when play starts is pretty life-like. Atmosphere sounds much better already and the players look more like people in a weird way, less crouched over like apes.
Only thing that got me really was Ibrahimovic's little weird steps he kept doing!
thenotsogood
06-06-2010, 13:03
u guys needs 2 relax
everybody knows with pes 2008, pes 2009 and pes 2010 you can play a better game of football - real football
so u guys complain 2 a pes website about how bad pes is - how sad is that?
I believe they're called opinions and constructive criticism. I think you'd have to be living under a rock if you think everyone believe PES is perfect. The criticisms are there to discuss how the game could be made better.
On topic, I skimmed through the thread and read somewhere that there'll be 'auto-feints'? If that's true I will be bitterly disappointed, I don't like to bring this into it, but in FIFA if you want to feint, you press the buttons to do so. And that's how previous PES's have worked, and I think that's the better way for it to work.
One thing that really annoys me about PES is when they decide to do a trick on their own, even though im just running. All of a sudden, a little marseilles roulette from Matthew Upson makes an appearance....
I don't know what some are seeing. It's not quite night and day but there's a clear difference in animation quality, pace, and fluidity between PES2010 and what we've just seen. Sometimes I think its a case of selective sight, but thats just my opinion. When you consider it's an early May build, meaning Konami (like they've already said) have yet to tweak the highlighted bugs and imperfections, or implement much of the gameplay elements (new varied pressing system) and transitional animations that polish off the core animations, to me its a reason for optimism.
Of course everyone has a right to their opinion, you've as much right to highlight the negative elements as well as positives, but at the same time we can all see why Konami have yet to release an official video. Its clearly an unfinished product and won't be for a few months yet, so to make conclusive judgements (both negative and positive) based on the video would be wrong. Just to reiterate, the video impressed me a lot.
One thing that really annoys me about PES is when they decide to do a trick on their own, even though im just running. All of a sudden, a little marseilles roulette from Matthew Upson makes an appearance....
The last time I saw that was on ISS2000, but I didn't play PES2010 all that much so I wouldn't know.
On topic, I skimmed through the thread and read somewhere that there'll be 'auto-feints'? If that's true I will be bitterly disappointed, I don't like to bring this into it, but in FIFA if you want to feint, you press the buttons to do so. And that's how previous PES's have worked, and I think that's the better way for it to work.
I don't think Konami or any of the play-testers mentioned that so I would take it with a pinch of salt, what I do remember, though, is auto-feint being in PES5 and Konami removing it from PES6 following negative feedback.
The way the camera is placed at the kick-off and then drifts up when play starts is pretty life-like. Atmosphere sounds much better already and the players look more like people in a weird way, less crouched over like apes.
Only thing that got me really was Ibrahimovic's little weird steps he kept doing!
To me it seemed like someone was repeatedly tapping R2, but if its a bug I'm sure they'll iron it out before release.
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 13:26
Regarding JessC's point above, I sometimes wonder whether I'm being subjective enough when watching these PES2011 videos. Is my love for PES blinding me to the tiny flaws that are in the game, or should I be focusing on the bigger picture instead of nit-picking?
Overall, I FEEL that PES2011 looks and plays different to its predecessor. The clunkiness of PES2010 still lingers slightly in a few things but there's more freshness to the game than I was expecting. Of course this is all speculation until you can actually play the game, but from impressions I really like it although I'm still really cautious about things as Konami have stung us in the past.
@Stanchion. I think its entirely possible to be optimistic and subjective, its simply expressing your point of view while acknowledging the faults. Taking the rough with the smooth. Whether you enjoy it or not is a matter of our own expectations. Going back to that; I'm not saying the video's flawless, it isn't without a few of the robotic elements of the last few games, but, from what I can see, they're more minor hitches or an early code that can be ironed out or minimized further still rather than the basis of a broken system (like PES2008-10). The players are just so much more lifelike. There's no doubt Konami should be further ahead than they are, but they're here now and from the looks of things they're taken a massive stride to reclaiming the throne.
Tech_Skill
06-06-2010, 13:46
There's no doubt Konami should be further ahead than they are, but they're here now and from the looks of things they're taken a massive stride to reclaiming the throne.
I dont know how you come to these kind of conclusions without
a) seeing what fifa will offer this year
b) Seeing a long enough gameplay video because so far we have seen about 1 mins worth of footage which isnt enough to make the kind of statements your coming out with. Some of the animations look better as per my post above but the rigidity of the game still looks to be present amongst other things.
People need to calm the fuck down and wait for a little bit more.
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 13:48
I hope the niggling faults will be ironed out. It would be shame to reach that German expo in August (can't remember what its called) and to see a practically complete version of PES2011 but with these issues we've seen in May/June still painfully apparent.
The same thing happened last year when I was convinced by some people that 'Oh, they've got until end of September to fix it - they'll do it!" Well, they didn't fix it and what we saw in August was what we got in October. I'm not falling for that that one again :no:
I dont know how you come to these kind of conclusions without
a) seeing what fifa will offer this year
b) Seeing a long enough gameplay video because so far we have seen about 1 mins worth of footage which isnt enough to make the kind of statements your coming out with. Some of the animations look better as per my post above but the rigidity of the game still looks to be present amongst other things.
People need to calm the fuck down and wait for a little bit more.
I'm not making any conclusions, I didn't say they've done it or they've almost done it, I'm not giving the game a verdict (I'd have to see a proper gameplay video and play it myself), but after the last few years its obvious how their development philosophy has changed and much work they're putting into title, you could even see the improvements in animation in that little early code video. They're taking strides. You don't need to see full length gameplay video to see that.
Tech_Skill
06-06-2010, 14:05
I'm not making any conclusions, I didn't say they've done it or they've almost done it, I'm not giving the game a verdict (I'd have to see a proper gameplay video and play it myself), but after the last few years its obvious how their development philosophy has changed and much work they're putting into title, you could even see the improvements in animation in that little early code video. They're taking strides. You don't need to see full length gameplay video to see that.
Fuck off with that shit, you said it looks like they have taken massive strides to reclaiming the throne, how the fuck can you gage that from about 60 secs of gameplay footage, some screenshots and you havent even seen what the competitor is releasing.
Dont even respond, go sit down in a dark room and fucking think about it for second.
Fucks sake.
Its plain to see that human nature strives for more every time. PES was so good back in the days of its creation because it was so new and different, we hadnt had anything like it!
Now years later, we strive for something so much more and we blame Seabass for not delivering something way over expectation, which i think is a little harsh.
However, i think PES2010 was only at fault because of how the human player couldnt control some important aspects. EG, where the pass went and how powerful it was, to which you would scream "OMG I DIDNT TELL YOU TO DO THAT!" at the crouched, ape like player bumbling around on the screen.
With PES2011 i think this main fault has been addressed. Who cares if its from FIFA, its needed! Companies copy stuff from everyone all the time. If that wasnt the case, there would only be one football game, one racing game etc etc.
Right now, i think PES2011 is going in the right direction.
Fuck off with that shit, you said it looks like they have taken massive strides to reclaiming the throne, how the fuck can you gage that from about 60 secs of gameplay footage, some screenshots and you havent even seen what the competitor is releasing.
Dont even respond, go sit down in a dark room and fucking think about it for second.
Fucks sake.
You know what, I'm sick of your presumptuous bullshit, you pretentious twat. I said it "looks like they're taking a massive stride", present tense, which is a suggestion that this game could be very good based on what we've seen from Konami, not "they've taken". Very similar phrases but completely different meanings. Why don't you actually read my post properly next time rather than seeing what you want to see.
Tech_Skill
06-06-2010, 14:22
You know what, I'm sick of your presumptuous bullshit. I said it "looks like they're taking a massive stride", which is a suggestion that this game could be very good based on what we've seen from Konami, not "they've taken". Very similar phrases but completely different meanings. Why don't you actually read my post properly next time rather than seeing what you want to see.
You can take that shit post and wipe your ass with it, here's your post....
from the looks of things they're taken a massive stride to reclaiming the throne.
Thats like me saying "From the looks of pes 2011 i think its taking major strides to beating fifa 12, despite fifa 12 not even being released and the fact i havent even seen it yet".
How you can talk about massive strides to reclaiming the throne 'from 1 mins worth of gameplay footage, and not even seeing what will be included in the rival game doesnt make sense to me.
Its like when you said you could tell how good the animations in the game were from still shots....lmao
Now, dont make me have to address such shit posting again.
Tech & Jess be civilised. Take the yellow as a warning of things to come unless attitudes improve.
cirtnias
06-06-2010, 14:30
You can take that shit post and wipe your ass with it, here's your post....
Thats like me saying "From the looks of pes 2011 i think its taking major strides to beating fifa 12, despite fifa 12 not even being released and the fact i havent even seen it yet".
How you can talk about massive strides to reclaiming the throne 'from 1 mins worth of gameplay footage, and not even seeing what will be included in the rival game doesnt make sense to me.
Its like when you said you could tell how good the animations in the game were from still shots....lmao
Now, dont make me have to address such shit posting again.
hi friend just to correct you FIFA 12 is not the name of EA'S next installment its actually FIFA 11 hope this clears up any confusion for you and helps you in future posts
take care x
Tech_Skill
06-06-2010, 14:33
hi friend just to correct you FIFA 12 is not the name of EA'S next installment its actually FIFA 11 hope this clears up any confusion for you and helps you in future posts
take care x
Are you for real?
Stick to reading spot the dog, you aint ready for pesgaming son, it was an example of someone making judgement between two games when one hasnt even been released yet and no one knows for sure whats even in it, for example fifa 11...another example fifa 12.
Consider yourself very lucky i have a yellow card.
Consider yourself very lucky i have a yellow card.
Consider yourself very lucky you have one. I'm bored of the antagonostic comments. Clean up or face a ban.
You can take that shit post and wipe your ass with it, here's your post....
"They're taken" is clearly a grammatical error, no subject-verb agreement, and I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.
Thats like me saying "From the looks of pes 2011 i think its taking major strides to beating fifa 12, despite fifa 12 not even being released and the fact i havent even seen it yet".
I've already addressed this and explained what I meant, if you wanna continue ignoring that then thats your problem.
How you can talk about massive strides to reclaiming the throne 'from 1 mins worth of gameplay footage, and not even seeing what will be included in the rival game doesnt make sense to me.
Because I didn't base it purely on gameplay footage. Konami is changing its approach to making PES and that's always the first step to a better game.
Its like when you said you could tell how good the animations in the game were from still shots....lmao
This is another example of you hearing what you want to hear. I never once said I could tell the animations were good based on screenshots. I said could understand how screenshots may suggest things about the game in motion and why some people would be optimistic about seeing them.
Now, dont make me have to address such shit posting again.
Ooh! I'm really shitting it now! Don't make me have to smell your pretentious stench again.
Ultimate777
06-06-2010, 14:51
Its plain to see that human nature strives for more every time. PES was so good back in the days of its creation because it was so new and different, we hadnt had anything like it!
Now years later, we strive for something so much more and we blame Seabass for not delivering something way over expectation, which i think is a little harsh.
However, i think PES2010 was only at fault because of how the human player couldnt control some important aspects. EG, where the pass went and how powerful it was, to which you would scream "OMG I DIDNT TELL YOU TO DO THAT!" at the crouched, ape like player bumbling around on the screen.
With PES2011 i think this main fault has been addressed. Who cares if its from FIFA, its needed! Companies copy stuff from everyone all the time. If that wasnt the case, there would only be one football game, one racing game etc etc.
Right now, i think PES2011 is going in the right direction.
No no no no no!! You got it all wrong there son. PES was initially cutting egde stuff because of its simplicity, players were more robust, resilient with a proper balance between individual players abilities that didnt allow certain players to abuse the game.
Konami's biggest mistake was trying to change the DNA of the game when it moved to nextgen and changint to teamvision AI. Thats what has and will continue to corrupt the game
No one is expecting the perfect game, We are simply asking them to bring it MUCH closer to what we see on TV. This is achieved through introducing hundreds of more variables that make each single moment, in each single game UNIQUE. The more the variables and the more the possibilities of what you can do, the closer it is to real soccer, and the more fun and authentic the experience feels.
Konami now fails in almost all aspects because of its limited freedom auto mated ai assistence and cliche goals that you expect to score in every game, its no longer free flowing football instead its a parody of real life.
Watch this video of the this garbage of a game with all the bugs in all its glory and tell me seriously that PES2010 was only at fault because of how the human player couldnt control some important aspects in passing. The game was corrupt from top to bottom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tc_I1eF9o
PES 5/6 had the correct balance between simulation and a fun, playable game engine. Obviously the shouldnt have have released it on the PS3 and just glossed it up in terms of graphics. But they should have kept it as its base to build and add around it as there was only miniature complaints mainly with goalkeepers and and defense issues needing tightening up. Now there are so many problems with this new base they are using that I could write a story about, and they are not going away by simply adding in the pass bar
At the moment they seem to be caught between trying to take the series in a different direction whilst still incorporating the same mechanics and formula of the old rigid engine that they've adopted on nextgen, and what's resulted is a fast paced ping pong arcade game.
Theres far more work to do than simply introducing manual passing
Tech_Skill
06-06-2010, 14:52
Because I didn't base it purely on gameplay footage. Konami is changing its approach to making PES and that's always the first step to a better game.
Oh my it gets even worse, so if you didn't make the below comments based on gameplay footage alone, what exactly did you make them on then, did the still pictures help you reach that judgement also or was it the impressions which confirmed there is still many things that need rectifying....LMAO.
I mean from what I saw most of the journo's who played the game were less positive than you, and all youv'e seen is a few screenshots and seconds of gameplay footage.
There's no doubt Konami should be further ahead than they are, but they're here now and from the looks of things they're taken a massive stride to reclaiming the throne.
You can dodge and re interpret and backtrack all you like, the bottom line is, most sensible people are waiting to see more from the game before declaring its taken massive steps towards overcoming fifa......
Especially when.........
Nobody
Even
Knows
What
Major
Features
Are
In
The
New
Fifa
For sure.
No no no no no!! You got it all wrong there son. PES5 was cutting egde stuff because of its simplicity, players were more robust, resilient with a proper balance between individual players abilities that didnt allow certain players to abuse the game.
Konami's biggest mistake was trying to change the DNA of the game when it moved to nextgen and changint to teamvision AI. Thats what has and will continue to corrupt the game
No one is expecting the perfect game, We are simply asking them to bring it MUCH closer to what we see on TV. This is achieved through introducing hundreds of more variables that make each single moment, in each single game UNIQUE. The more the variables and the more the possibilities of what you can do, the closer it is to real soccer, and the more fun and authentic the experience feels.
Konami now fails in almost all aspects because of its limited freedom auto mated ai assistence and cliche goals that you expect to score in every game, its no longer free flowing football instead its a parody of real life.
Watch this video of the this garbage of a game with all the bugs in all its glory and tell me seriously that PES2010 was only at fault because of how the human player couldnt control some important aspects in passing. The game was corrupt from top to bottom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tc_I1eF9o
PES 5/6 had the correct balance between simulation and a fun, playable game engine. Obviously the shouldnt have have released it on the PS3 and just glossed it up in terms of graphics. But they should have kept it as its base to build and add around it as there was only miniature complaints mainly with goalkeepers and and defense issues needing tightening up. Now there are so many problems with this new base they are using that I could write a story about, and they are not going away by simply adding in the pass bar
At the moment they seem to be caught between trying to take the series in a different direction whilst still incorporating the same mechanics and formula of the old rigid engine that they've adopted on nextgen, and what's resulted is a fast paced ping pong arcade game.
Theres far more work to do than simply introducing manual passing
I do agree with you :)
One thing PES really needs is a program which makes tackles,shots, jostling etc unique every time...basically the Euphoria engine!
I was sick of seeing a challenge from behind and my player just kind of falling backwards on his ass...it was weird.
Passing was just my main gripe really. Thats what really ground my gears, not being able to pass it where i wanted it to go, missing out on through balls and opportunities time and time again.
Weather would be a good variable too. Snow and rain, with water dripping on the camera when it rains (like in F1 games) and snow around the edge of the camera and pitch.
Makes you seem that little bit more "involved", actually there.
Oh my it gets even worse, so if you didn't make the below comments based on gameplay footage alone, what exactly did you make them on then, did the still pictures help you reach that judgement also or was it the impressions which confirmed there is still many things that need rectifying....LMAO.
I mean from what I saw most of the journo's who played the game were less positive than you, and all youv'e seen is a few screenshots and seconds of gameplay footage.
Persistent one, aren't you? I'm not gonna bother explaining my point of view to you again because you won't bother taking it for what it is, your schtick seems to be twist words to antagonize. 'Debating' with you, and I use that term loosely, is a monumental waste of time, brain power, and infractions. I'm just gonna ignore you, like I ignore my two-year-old niece when she throws a tantrum.
Weather would be a good variable too. Snow and rain, with water dripping on the camera when it rains (like in F1 games) and snow around the edge of the camera and pitch.
Makes you seem that little bit more "involved", actually there.
I like the idea of wether affecting play, they had it on the old PS2 versions but I never felt they made it as effective as it could've been. The ball should have a more noticeable 'sloppiness' in wet weather (passes falling short, etc) and make you compensate slick passing movement for a more helter-skelter approach. Certain types of players should be out of their element.
Ok, since Jess C has stated he isn't going to continue the "debate", Tech Skill, there is no need to reply to his last post.
Ultimate777
06-06-2010, 15:16
I do agree with you :)
One thing PES really needs is a program which makes tackles,shots, jostling etc unique every time...basically the Euphoria engine!
I was sick of seeing a challenge from behind and my player just kind of falling backwards on his ass...it was weird.
Passing was just my main gripe really. Thats what really ground my gears, not being able to pass it where i wanted it to go, missing out on through balls and opportunities time and time again.
Weather would be a good variable too. Snow and rain, with water dripping on the camera when it rains (like in F1 games) and snow around the edge of the camera and pitch.
Makes you seem that little bit more "involved", actually there.
That would be luvvvlaay. The thing is I remember waiting for 2008 pes and thinking these improvements were all likely possibilities because the game was top notch on ps2 and all they really needed was to take advantage of the power of PS3 and put in the different variables surrounding the gameply like collision impact, wheather effecting the pitch conditons and players reactions and that would have been it. I thought there is no way they can mess this up its surely going to be the ultimate football game ever made. Sadly things took a turn for the worst and the rest is history.
You look at the improvement on Metel Gear Solid from ps2 to PS3 and konami managed it fine as they implemented and took advantage of the nextgen and you sat in awe of the new features
Now ask yourself does anything you see in any of the newer PES on nextgen make you believe they couldnt do it on the PS2? Im yet to see anything make me go ''wow thats real advancement for football using such technology on next gen?
That would be luvvvlaay. The thing is I remember waiting for 2008 pes and thinking these improvements were all likely possibilities because the game was top notch on ps2 and all they really needed was to take advantage of the power of PS3 and put in the different variables surrounding the gameply like collision impact, wheather effecting the pitch conditons and players reactions and that would have been it. I thought there is no way they can mess this up its surely going to be the ultimate football game ever made. Sadly things took a turn for the worst and the rest is history.
You look at the improvement on Metel Gear Solid from ps2 to PS3 and konami managed it fine as they implemented and took advantage of the nextgen and you sat in awe of the new features
Now ask yourself does anything you see in any of the newer PES on nextgen make you believe they couldnt do it on the PS2? Im yet to see anything make me go ''wow thats real advancement for football using such technology on next gen?
I would think Konami care much more about Metal Gear Solid as its like their flagship game, when you think Konami you think MGS.
Honestly though, theres nothing in PES games these days that make me think "wow this is true next gen footballing". Its kind of lame...
filthydani
06-06-2010, 16:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tc_I1eF9o
I have a strong feeling that a pes2011 version of this video will be out after the game is released
I have a strong feeling that a pes2011 version of this video will be out after the game is released
lol im sincerely hoping that wont happen!
Die Hard Pes Fan
06-06-2010, 16:48
Weather would be a good variable too. Snow and rain, with water dripping on the camera when it rains (like in F1 games) and snow around the edge of the camera and pitch.
Makes you seem that little bit more "involved", actually there.
In the three days I played FIFA (only played it against my mate online) I noticed that in one of the matches it was snowing, and I have to admit it done a great job as the ball skided further once hitting the ground. I started a MM with man city but found it boring so technically I didn't just play online ;) but I mainly did lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7_JcR_lj-I
The fact that it changes the game visually is good. The fact that it changes the way you play, even better.
thenotsogood
06-06-2010, 19:24
On the weather aspect, on FIFA 10 the ball bounces away from you more in rain, and when rolling on the floor it gets restricted. Maybe some questions can be asked about the exact realism of it, but having to change how you play is a nice touch. One that I remember was in PES last-gen but I'm not so sure.
One problem I find with game developers (moreso EA and Konami with their footy) is that they're not willing to scrap something if it needs total re-work. I often think Konami's engine needs to be put in the bin and re-done. That way they can create new boundaries for features they need (if that makes sense).
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 20:01
One problem I find with game developers (moreso EA and Konami with their footy) is that they're not willing to scrap something if it needs total re-work. I often think Konami's engine needs to be put in the bin and re-done. That way they can create new boundaries for features they need (if that makes sense).
I agree. But the problem is that they need to churn out a PES game every year. It would be too much work to scrap the engine, design a new one and then get a new game working in that time. That's why all this talk of the 'blue-sky' team has me confused. If they did actually start work on PES2011 when PES2010 was being developed, why not start from scratch?
Its plain to see that human nature strives for more every time. PES was so good back in the days of its creation because it was so new and different, we hadnt had anything like it!
Now years later, we strive for something so much more and we blame Seabass for not delivering something way over expectation, which i think is a little harsh.
However, i think PES2010 was only at fault because of how the human player couldnt control some important aspects. EG, where the pass went and how powerful it was, to which you would scream "OMG I DIDNT TELL YOU TO DO THAT!" at the crouched, ape like player bumbling around on the screen.
With PES2011 i think this main fault has been addressed. Who cares if its from FIFA, its needed! Companies copy stuff from everyone all the time. If that wasnt the case, there would only be one football game, one racing game etc etc.
Right now, i think PES2011 is going in the right direction.
You make some good points,
In my opinion, the most relevant thing you said is the bit that says: " PES was so good back in the days of its creation because it was so new and different"
That's my problem with game, yes we had the ISS games, then came PES5 and PES6 -- and these games where good at the time... these games upped the ante and showed how good a Football Simulation could be,
But the current situation is that we are stuck in the past, we still have people saying how great PES5 and PES6 still are today...
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that fan-boys need to look at the bigger picture if PES is ever going to be that "DIFFERENT" game that some people (a minority?) want it to be; at the end of the day, fan-boys are very important in the progress of PES,
And if fan-boys continue with the same conservative and narrow-minded views, then how can we expect a -- different -- PES?
As for PES 2011,
My main disappointment with the Football Genre in general, is that once you have mastered every aspect of the game; you realize that as a matter of fact it does not requires any "hardcore" skills,
The 10 Minute Concept is a concept for casual gamers, a concept that allows the user to exploit obvious things; "hardcore" PES players simply exploit all the obvious flaws... which may require some level of skill, but at the end of the day, it's just: boring, monotonous, predictable, superficial, deceptive, out of date.
I don't consider exploiting obvious flaws as something "hardcore"; in my opinion, the 10 Minute Concept was "hardcore" back when PES5 and PES6 came out, when ISS came out; but not anymore...
Now, PES 2010 has been the best PES to date (in my opinion), because from a purist's point of view, if you don't exploit the flaws that are there to be exploited, the game offers more depth than any PS2 version of PES.
You can use the L2 Strategies and the Cards and the Sliders, and you can feel the difference, this is something that is not possible with either PES5 or PES6,
However, the key problem is still the same, despite all the cards and the sliders, etc, etc, you can always break the game whenever you feel like it; in other words, it's the same old formula at its core.
AND, I almost forgot, even when you don´t break the game -- the game is still not very fun to play... it's too automatic and non-involving,
Bottom line?
I think PES 2011 will be a good 10 Minute Simulation, I have no doubts about it, it will be the best PES to date; at least in my opinion,
But once more, people will find out that PES 2011 is not that different when compared to PES6 or PES 2010; in the same way, I can play PES6 and then play FIFA 2010 -- and I don't see any significant difference in how the game is played,
We do have some small differences, but at their core, all 10 Minute Simulations are the same,
Whats inherent in games really is that once youve played it for long enough, you know whats going to happen, you learn how to play in a way where its easiest to win every time. Cant stop it really. All you can do is make it as fun as possible for as long as possible.
This means lots of variety and drama are needed!
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 22:22
RE: Amateur
I'm new, but I've read a few of your posts and you talk about '10 Minute Simulation' & '20 Minute Simulation' - what do you mean by that? Thanks.
Ultimate777
06-06-2010, 22:49
That's my problem with game, yes we had the ISS games, then came PES5 and PES6 -- and these games where good at the time... these games upped the ante and showed how good a Football Simulation could be, ,
Right so we agree on that point that PES from 5-6 was a good football simulation, Let’s take this one step at a time so you don’t confused and muddled up like you did before
But the current situation is that we are stuck in the past, we still have people saying how great PES5 and PES6 still are today...
So what’s the problem if people are saying this if we agree that pes5 was a good football simulation and are clearly not happy with the current releases?
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that fan-boys need to look at the bigger picture if PES is ever going to be that "DIFFERENT" game that some people (a minority?) want it to be; at the end of the day, fan-boys are very important in the progress of PES,
And if fan-boys continue with the same conservative and narrow-minded views, then how can we expect a -- different -- PES?
Ok who are these fan boys who believe you seperate from? And what are these conservative and narrow minded views they hold please?
My main disappointment with the Football Genre in general, is that once you have mastered every aspect of the game; you realize that as a matter of fact it does not requires any "hardcore" skills,
That applies to many things besides the football and gaming. If you master anything, things become second nature without requiring as you say ‘’hardcore skills’ whatever that means.
The 10 Minute Concept is a concept for casual gamers, a concept that allows the user to exploit obvious things; "hardcore" PES players simply exploit all the obvious flaws... which may require some level of skill, but at the end of the day, it's just: boring, monotonous, predictable, superficial, deceptive, out of date
If the obvious flaws wasn’t there in the first place there wouldn’t be anything there to exploit would there and that’s what most people are complaining about and want fixed. What’s with this regurgitation of 10 minute concept? This is the basis of all football games since the genre began in computing. Is your solution to have the change it to a 45 minute concept?
Now, PES 2010 has been the best PES to date (in my opinion), because from a purist's point of view, if you don't exploit the flaws that are there to be exploited, the game offers more depth than any PS2 version of PES.
Riiight! So pes2010 to you is the best because it has flaws that are there to be exploited but if you don’t exploit it then it offers more depth??? How are you meant to do this? If the AI messes up and presents an easy route to goal then are we to just ignore it, pretend it didn’t happen? But in your seventh paragraph you say " PES players simply exploit all the obvious flaws... which may require some level of skill, but at the end of the day, it's just: boring, monotonous, predictable, superficial, deceptive, out of date.’’ So if we don’t exploit the game IT somehow reverse all those problems in terms of predictability, out of date etc and becomes in depth? Do you see the nonsensical bollox you spout that makes no sense? Is that why you conveniently pretended you didn’t see my response to your half baked post which was full of contradictions regarding the reasons why people were pissed off? According to your good self, the one reason you came up with was because the game had improved. Do you not see how retarded that sounds?
You can use the L2 Strategies and the Cards and the Sliders, and you can feel the difference, this is something that is not possible with either PES5 or PES6,
L2 strategies were possible on the PS2, so your memory is failing. As for the cards, sliders they are nothing but gimmicks and no way do they make the game play any better. It just adds to the overall rating of the player which further adds to the unrealism as they can be assigned to any player
RE: Amateur
I'm new, but I've read a few of your posts and you talk about '10 Minute Simulation' & '20 Minute Simulation' - what do you mean by that? Thanks.
10 Minute Simulation: every Football Sim to date revolves around the 10 Minute Concept, and the 10 Minute Concept does not respects the core gameplay mechanics of real-life Football.
20 Minute Simulation: has never been tried before, it is very likely that in the future we will get to see this, because the core gameplay mechanics of real-life Football CAN be Simulated correctly; and doing it correctly would take the game to a whole new level of organic-feel and unpredictability whilst at the same time making the flaws a lot less exploitable or entirely non-exploitable.
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=78103
If you read what you will find through that link, it will give you a good idea of the flaws of the 10 Minute Concept and the inevitability of a 20 Minute Concept in a future, perhaps closer than we think.
It's still is a work in progress, it's not very well explained, but I think it's good enough so that you get an idea of the things that could be possible if the game was not restricted by a 10 minute deadline.
TheStanchion
06-06-2010, 23:26
Ok. I'll give those links a read. Nice one.
Ultimate777
06-06-2010, 23:34
Your 20 minute concept is moronic Amatuer and we wont be seeing it. The problems you noted in your thread regarding off the ball movement and positioning can be easily implenmented in the standard 10min game its just konami are too incompetent and too detached from what how a real football game plays. If they had ex pros in their development team those issues would be fixed along time ago. Are you still going to continue ignoring my posts and clarifying your contradictions?. Your line regarding ''veron has the brains but not the technique'' just shows you dont know much regarding real football and should refrain from discussion and suggest you stick to calling out fanboys and wenb.
Your 20 minute concept is moronic Amatuer and we wont be seeing it. The problems you noted in your thread regarding off the ball movement and positioning can be easily implenmented in the standard 10min game its just konami are too incompetent and too detached from what how a real football game plays. If they had ex pros in their development team those issues would be fixed along time ago. Are you still going to continue ignoring my posts and clarifying your contradictions?. Your line regarding ''veron has the brains but not the technique'' just shows you dont know much regarding real football and should refrain from discussion and suggest you stick to calling out fanboys and wenb.
Roman Riquelme -- Technique
Xavi Hernandez -- Technique
Zinedine Zidane -- Technique
Roberto Baggio -- Technique
Andres Iniesta -- Technique
Ronaldinho -- Technique
Luis Figo -- Technique
Matt Le Tissier -- Technique
Sebastian Veron -- has a pretty decent technique, but does NOT compares with the rest of the players mentioned. Apparently, you have never seen Veron playing Football; he is slow and he is nothing special in terms of technique.
And FFS, is "moronic" the only word in your vocabulary? seems like a word you hear all the time...
If the game is meant to be played for a time lapse of 10 minutes, the game must be DUMB: FIFA 2010, PES 2010, PES5, and PES6 -- are-- DUMB and monotonous and deceptive video games,
Try playing any of those games for anything longer than a 10 minute match, it's BOOOORING,
If the game was meant to be played for a longer span of time, say 20 minutes (10 mins per half), the game would have more space for better player individuality and overall, better and more sophisticated gameplay mechanics.
The real-life game is 90 minutes long, look at the off-the-ball movement, look at the fundamental skills used to create space -- you cannot do that in a 10 minute game,
The game will never be super-realistic, but a 20 minute time lapse, would give the user time to actually play some proper football; I believe 20 minutes is enough to implement the basics of real-life football,
Another thing that must be clear when talking about this subject, is that, for example, the off-the-ball movement of either PES 2010 or FIFA 2010 -- if it actually required the input of the user, if it asked the user what to do instead of telling the user what to do... then it would be fun to play the game, because it involves you in the play.
On the other hand, if the off-the-ball movement is very realistic, but does not requires any input nor THINKING from the user -- the game will be somewhat soul-less because the COM is telling you what to do, the COM is dictating how the momentum flows, etc, etc.
That old automatic formula worked with PES5 and PES6, and continues to work with FIFA 2010 and PES 2010 -- but eventually, we may see a change,
I think you should expand on your idea of what is "fun" and what is not, I don't mean that in a bad way; but whatever... it will be interesting to see if either PES 2011 or FIFA 2011 surprises fans like yourself with something they don't expect,
Anyways, I am not interested in your BASELESS and narrow-minded argument. We both want the game to improve, but we have different opinions about the product in question,
Will I continue ignoring your posts? it depends, if your arguments are all this weak and offensive, then YES -- I will ignore you,
Whats inherent in games really is that once youve played it for long enough, you know whats going to happen, you learn how to play in a way where its easiest to win every time. Cant stop it really. All you can do is make it as fun as possible for as long as possible.
This means lots of variety and drama are needed!
It depends on your definition of "fun" -- if you think 10 Minute Sims are fun, fair enough, that's your opinion,
In my opinion, I would compare it to Chess -- Chess has no flaws to exploit, and yet, no matter how much you play it, you may find little surprises over the years,
I think PES should have an element of Chess in the gameplay,
Roman Riquelme -- Technique
Xavi Hernandez -- Technique
Zinedine Zidane -- Technique
Roberto Baggio -- Technique
Andres Iniesta -- Technique
Ronaldinho -- Technique
Luis Figo -- Technique
Matt Le Tissier -- Technique
Sebastian Veron -- has a pretty decent technique, but does NOT compares with the rest of the players mentioned.
Really? I mean... really???
Did you ever watch Seba Veron in his prime? Because wow... just... wow.
Really? I mean... really???
Did you ever watch Seba Veron in his prime? Because wow... just... wow.
Yes I watched Veron in his prime, and when he was at Inter and at all these big clubs, his lack of speed and technique showed.
I think the most extraordinary quality of Veron was his Long Balls, at Lazio, he gave a lot of assists via long balls from deep in-field areas.
That said, I don't think Veron ever was a great player in terms of technique; when I talk about players with great technique the players that come into mind are usually Zinedine Zidane and Dennis Bergkamp -- not Veron.
A lot of one-twos, intelligent movement, perfect long balls; but I never saw Veron doing the things that Roman Riquelme did at Boca Juniors and Villarreal.
You guys take one small sentence and exaggerate it as if I had said that Veron was absolute shit, he had good technique, but doesn't compares with players who have great technique.
And one thing about technique is that you never loose your technique, Ronaldinho has lost a lot of pace; yet his technique remains intact... Veron is not in his prime anymore, why should this affect his technique in such a big way?
I continue watching Veron playing in the Argentine league, and he does not shows the same glimpses of technical ability that players like Riquelme or Ronaldinho do show even though they're past their prime,
Ultimate777
07-06-2010, 02:19
Roman Riquelme -- Technique
Xavi Hernandez -- Technique
Zinedine Zidane -- Technique
Roberto Baggio -- Technique
Andres Iniesta -- Technique
Ronaldinho -- Technique
Luis Figo -- Technique
Matt Le Tissier -- Technique
Sebastian Veron -- has a pretty decent technique, but does NOT compares with the rest of the players mentioned. Apparently, you have never seen Veron playing Football; he is slow and he is nothing special in terms of technique. ,
Lol You’ve out done yourself with that post. Well done. Are those the only players you can think of that have exceptional technique? Next you’ll be telling me paul scholes is average in techinque and slow with no brains. Let me tell you son, pace has nothing to do with technique otherwise what’s figo and zidane doing in your list? Veron is renowned for his ability of pin point long range passing accuracy and vision, one of the best alongside Beckham in that deparment. Was once considered as one of the best playmakers in the game, who dictates play and movement around the field. You don’t operate in that position of the field without having exceptional technique. Thats not to mention his free kicks and long range shots which all require TECHNIQUE. Now I have to prospose the question have YOU actually watched Veron play properly? Or are you basing your opinion on media perception with his short spell at United? Even though his talent was all there for all to see.
And Matt le tissier lol hey, your more of a joke than I thought. Please tell me you were kidding when you decided to mention him along those names?yes he had good technique but he only stood out because he was british and was a big fish in a small pond at Southampton but never ever on par with the likes of Zidane. Wonder why he didn’t play for any of the greats or on the world stage? Because he is no where close to one of the worlds best in that area
And FFS, is "moronic" the only word in your vocabulary? seems like a word you hear all the time... ,
There are many other words for your kind but I spear myself the infraction.
How about Inept, deluded, foolish, naive, incompetent
If the game is meant to be played for a time lapse of 10 minutes, the game must be DUMB: FIFA 2010, PES 2010, PES5, and PES6 -- are-- DUMB and monotonous and deceptive video games,
Really? So why were you wasting time playing those games all these years if they were dumb and deceptive from the beginning? To you 10mins=dumb, 20mins = guaranteed freedom of movent and better gameplay. All these years konami have been going wrong simply because of the limited time period of matchs. I get you now, more time, more ideas right? Lol, seriously cannot believe you
Try playing any of those games for anything longer than a 10 minute match, it's BOOOORING,
I don’t disagree with that, however on the PS2 15mins would suffice and offer a good enough time period for a challenge as there was enough variety and fun involved. 20mins is just going over the limit. Now due to the rigid restrictions the game is evermore predictable and tiresome even through a standard 10min game
If the game was meant to be played for a longer span of time, say 20 minutes (10 mins per half), the game would have more space for better player individuality and overall, better and more sophisticated gameplay mechanics.
Thats no reason to come to the conclusion that if konami fixed the computer AI and off the movement that it wouldn’t be possible in a 10 minute match
The real-life game is 90 minutes long, look at the off-the-ball movement, look at the fundamental skills used to create space -- you cannot do that in a 10 minute game,
Yeah we know but you don’t need extra 10mins of game time for these features to be placed in the game. They can happen regardless that’s what you don’t seem to get. Making the game only applicable to 20min matches only makes it drawn out and tedious regardless of how realistic you believe it will suddenly become. What about the people who want a shorter level of time who don’t have the luxury of fitting in 20 minute sessions in their schedule?
The game will never be super-realistic, but a 20 minute time lapse, would give the user time to actually play some proper football; I believe 20 minutes is enough to implement the basics of real-life football,
Again you are assuming that adding more minutes will constitutes to more realistic gameplay, because in your mind its automatically going to spread over and translate into more real life football dynamics simply because of longer time period. Thats simplistic at best. If konami actually improved the games core ability to replicate how the game is played in real life they wouldn’t need to be doing that
Another thing that must be clear when talking about this subject, is that, for example, the off-the-ball movement of either PES 2010 or FIFA 2010 -- if it actually required the input of the user, if it asked the user what to do instead of telling the user what to do... then it would be fun to play the game, because it involves you in the play.
Wow that’s what most fans have been asking for didn’t you know?
On the other hand, if the off-the-ball movement is very realistic, but does not requires any input nor THINKING from the user -- the game will be somewhat soul-less because the COM is telling you what to do, the COM is dictating how the momentum flows, etc, etc.
And that basically sums up PES2010, your favourite remember?
That old automatic formula worked with PES5 and PES6, and continues to work with FIFA 2010 and PES 2010 -- but eventually, we may see a change,
Well no konami have realised that the automatic formula is dated and have finally seen that it doesn’t work with 10 aa doesn’t allow user freedom thats why they are going to put in manual passing and take away AI assistance which is why the new slogan says Total freedom. But the difference is they are able to see that they don’t require an extra 10 mintutes added to the game to include this going off your einstein theory. If you proposed your ideas and reasoning to a games developing team they’ll be laughing their heads off
I think you should expand on your idea of what is "fun" and what is not, I don't mean that in a bad way; but whatever... it will be interesting to see if either PES 2011 or FIFA 2011 surprises fans like yourself with something they don't expect,
I already expanded on what my idea of fun is in my previous response if you cared to look, so im not going to repeat myself considering you already noted you will continue to ignore my posts like a child who says their not playing anymore because they’re losing
Anyways, I am not interested in your BASELESS and "moronic" argument. Will I continue ignoring your posts? Yes
Not surprised and don’t blame you since I don’t think you have the capacities to backtrack and explain your initial contradictions and nonsensical arguments on why you think there is a problem with these games. You go to and fro without any consistency. As a result your a poor inept poster that should refrain from discussion as you clearly cannot handle counter argument that challenges your idiotic theories and opinions.
Lol You’ve out done yourself with that post. Well done. Are those the only players you can think of that have exceptional technique? Next you’ll be telling me paul scholes is average in techinque and slow with no brains. Let me tell you son, pace has nothing to do with technique otherwise what’s figo and zidane doing in your list? Veron is renowned for his ability of pin point long range passing accuracy and vision, one of the best alongside Beckham in that deparment. Was once considered as one of the best playmakers in the game, who dictates play and movement around the field. You don’t operate in that position of the field without having exceptional technique. Thats not to mention his free kicks and long range shots which all require TECHNIQUE. Now I have to prospose the question have YOU actually watched Veron play properly? Or are you basing your opinion on media perception with his short spell at United? Even though his talent was all there for all to see.
And Matt le tissier lol hey, your more of a joke than I thought. Please tell me you were kidding when you decided to mention him along those names?yes he had good technique but he only stood out because he was british and was a big fish in a small pond at Southampton but never ever on par with the likes of Zidane. Wonder why he didn’t play for any of the greats or on the world stage? Because he is no where close to one of the worlds best in that area
There are many other words for your kind but I spear myself the infraction.
How about Inept, deluded, foolish, naive, incompetent
Really? So why were you wasting time playing those games all these years if they were dumb and deceptive from the beginning? To you 10mins=dumb, 20mins = guaranteed freedom of movent and better gameplay. All these years konami have been going wrong simply because of the limited time period of matchs. I get you now, more time, more ideas right? Lol, seriously cannot believe you
I don’t disagree with that, however on the PS2 15mins would suffice and offer a good enough time period for a challenge as there was enough variety and fun involved. 20mins is just going over the limit. Now due to the rigid restrictions the game is evermore predictable and tiresome even through a standard 10min game
Thats no reason to come to the conclusion that if konami fixed the computer AI and off the movement that it wouldn’t be possible in a 10 minute match
Yeah we know but you don’t need extra 10mins of game time for these features to be placed in the game. They can happen regardless that’s what you don’t seem to get. Making the game only applicable to 20min matches only makes it drawn out and tedious regardless of how realistic you believe it will suddenly become. What about the people who want a shorter level of time who don’t have the luxury of fitting in 20 minute sessions in their schedule?
Again you are assuming that adding more minutes will constitutes to more realistic gameplay, because in your mind its automatically going to spread over and translate into more real life football dynamics simply because of longer time period. Thats simplistic at best. If konami actually improved the games core ability to replicate how the game is played in real life they wouldn’t need to be doing that
Wow that’s what most fans have been asking for didn’t you know?
And that basically sums up PES2010, your favourite remember?
Well no konami have realised that the automatic formula is dated and have finally seen that it doesn’t work with 10 aa doesn’t allow user freedom thats why they are going to put in manual passing and take away AI assistance which is why the new slogan says Total freedom. But the difference is they are able to see that they don’t require an extra 10 mintutes added to the game to include this going off your einstein theory. If you proposed your ideas and reasoning to a games developing team they’ll be laughing their heads off
I already expanded on what my idea of fun is in my previous response if you cared to look, so im not going to repeat myself considering you already noted you will continue to ignore my posts like a child who says their not playing anymore because they’re losing
Not surprised and don’t blame you since I don’t think you have the capacities to backtrack and explain your initial contradictions and nonsensical arguments on why you think there is a problem with these games. You go to and fro without any consistency. As a result your a poor inept poster that should refrain from discussion as you clearly cannot handle counter argument that challenges your idiotic theories and opinions.
I think you and I have a different understanding for "technique"
I loved watching Sebastian Veron, he reminded me of a Carlos Valderrama with more ambition but less elegance; extraordinary long balls, intelligent movement, one-two plays, etc, etc.
When I talk about "technique" I talk only about what the player can do with the ball, the class of the player; I do not take free-kicks nor one-twos into consideration.
When I talk about technique I am referring to Juan Roman Riquelme, when in his prime with Boca Juniors and Villarreal, could hold-on to the ball even if he had three players on him; and could do it consistently...
I just don't see and have never seen, Sebastian Veron showing the same glimpses of technical ability that players like Zinedine Zidane and Dennis Bergkamp showed on a consistent basis.
As for PES,
It's obvious that we both want the game to improve, we simply have different opinions about the product in question... it's really that simple.
I do not think there is a problem with these games, the FACT is, that there is a problem with these games -- how do you feel about the problem?
That's your opinion.
You like the game, whereas on the other hand I do not enjoy this type of gameplay as much as I used to. How does that makes me incompetent or anything of the sort?
By the way, did you mentioned the word "losing"? do you actually think that I give a fuck about winning or loosing some argument about a fucking video game?
Worrying about winning or loosing is a waste of time, meaningless as far as this argument of yours goes, I would only care about winning if I was being payed to win.
Fact of the matter is that these games are unplayable outside the 10 minute time-frame. This is a clear indication of how dumb the game is, doesn't has enough substance for 20 minute matches.
PES 2010 and FIFA 2010 are both soul-less as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, I feel like PES5 and PES6 had more soul in them, but where poorer games in terms of depth; and overall, I would rather play the soul-less PES 2010 before the soul-full PES6.
----------------------------------------------------
"Again you are assuming that adding more minutes will constitutes to more realistic gameplay, because in your mind its automatically going to spread over and translate into more real life football dynamics simply because of longer time period. Thats simplistic at best. If konami actually improved the games core ability to replicate how the game is played in real life they wouldn’t need to be doing that"
------------------------------------------------------
I never said that, those are your words, not mine; apparently your fan-boy mentality does not let you communicate, you are already judging before you even start to understand my opinion.
Let me tell you, you are as far off the mark as you possibly can be.
As for 10 minutes vs 20 minutes,
That's easily fixable, if a 20 Minute Sim ever happens; we should always have an option for playing 10 minute games, like for example, two different game modes: one custom-made for 10 minute matches, the other for 20 minute matches.
--------------------------------------------------
The 10 minute mode: same old automatic "pin-ball" formula
The 20 minute mode: new formula for a realistic game of Football.
---------------------------------------------------
What you want -- it is easily possible within a 10 minute deadline, I know what you want, as a matter of fact, everyone knows what you want.
On the other hand, what I want, is not possible in a 10 minute game, 20 minutes does not equals more ideas, more ideas will not change anything, it's about changing the concept from the ground up.
Bottom Line?
Different opinions... although fact remains that these games are too dumb for 20 minute matches.
But whatever,
Continue throwing childish insults, I don't care, there's nothing I can do about it from where I'm standing; you should take a look at yourself before calling anyone a moron or incompetent.
Don't forget, PES is a video game, there's no need for stupid insults,
franchise
07-06-2010, 05:05
lets all stop arguing and just hope that konami deliver us a great game this year
there is some improvements here and there, but these videos CLEARLY showed that they did not work on this for 18 months...the improvements are minor and there is a lot to be worried about...keepers, animations doesn't look quite right, gameplay looks too much like pes 2010 etc.
If this is the game they are going to put out, it's fifa again for me this year...
and to those waiting for the demo, stop being naive...the gameplay movies tells the story. Once the demo hits all the naive fans on this site will say it's only a 75% build...happens every year, only to end up in total dissapointment once the final game hits.
The_whisper
07-06-2010, 12:17
Dude, you are damn right about the whole concept. Its such a shame people get stuck on trivia like veron`s tech. Well done. Great post btw.
I think you and I have a different understanding for "technique"
I loved watching Sebastian Veron, he reminded me of a Carlos Valderrama with more ambition but less elegance; extraordinary long balls, intelligent movement, one-two plays, etc, etc.
When I talk about "technique" I talk only about what the player can do with the ball, the class of the player; I do not take free-kicks nor one-twos into consideration.
When I talk about technique I am referring to Juan Roman Riquelme, when in his prime with Boca Juniors and Villarreal, could hold-on to the ball even if he had three players on him; and could do it consistently...
I just don't see and have never seen, Sebastian Veron showing the same glimpses of technical ability that players like Zinedine Zidane and Dennis Bergkamp showed on a consistent basis.
As for PES,
It's obvious that we both want the game to improve, we simply have different opinions about the product in question... it's really that simple.
I do not think there is a problem with these games, the FACT is, that there is a problem with these games -- how do you feel about the problem?
That's your opinion.
You like the game, whereas on the other hand I do not enjoy this type of gameplay as much as I used to. How does that makes me incompetent or anything of the sort?
By the way, did you mentioned the word "losing"? do you actually think that I give a fuck about winning or loosing some argument about a fucking video game?
Worrying about winning or loosing is a waste of time, meaningless as far as this argument of yours goes, I would only care about winning if I was being payed to win.
Fact of the matter is that these games are unplayable outside the 10 minute time-frame. This is a clear indication of how dumb the game is, doesn't has enough substance for 20 minute matches.
PES 2010 and FIFA 2010 are both soul-less as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, I feel like PES5 and PES6 had more soul in them, but where poorer games in terms of depth; and overall, I would rather play the soul-less PES 2010 before the soul-full PES6.
----------------------------------------------------
"Again you are assuming that adding more minutes will constitutes to more realistic gameplay, because in your mind its automatically going to spread over and translate into more real life football dynamics simply because of longer time period. Thats simplistic at best. If konami actually improved the games core ability to replicate how the game is played in real life they wouldn’t need to be doing that"
------------------------------------------------------
I never said that, those are your words, not mine; apparently your fan-boy mentality does not let you communicate, you are already judging before you even start to understand my opinion.
Let me tell you, you are as far off the mark as you possibly can be.
As for 10 minutes vs 20 minutes,
That's easily fixable, if a 20 Minute Sim ever happens; we should always have an option for playing 10 minute games, like for example, two different game modes: one custom-made for 10 minute matches, the other for 20 minute matches.
--------------------------------------------------
The 10 minute mode: same old automatic "pin-ball" formula
The 20 minute mode: new formula for a realistic game of Football.
---------------------------------------------------
What you want -- it is easily possible within a 10 minute deadline, I know what you want, as a matter of fact, everyone knows what you want.
On the other hand, what I want, is not possible in a 10 minute game, 20 minutes does not equals more ideas, more ideas will not change anything, it's about changing the concept from the ground up.
Bottom Line?
Different opinions... although fact remains that these games are too dumb for 20 minute matches.
But whatever,
Continue throwing childish insults, I don't care, there's nothing I can do about it from where I'm standing; you should take a look at yourself before calling anyone a moron or incompetent.
Don't forget, PES is a video game, there's no need for stupid insults,
ionosphere
07-06-2010, 15:16
New video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEnGHljtO74
The animations don't look better to me.
New member here and familiar story for me, played pretty much all the football games since the eighties. I own all the PES games on PS2 up till PS3 launch, really excited for the release of PES2008 back in 2007 when I got my PS3. I knew that there was a preliminary PES on xbxox 360 and hoped that would give the dev team a chance to get the PES 2008 full release on both platforms spot on, but oh dear, what a mistake buying 2008.
I used to buy PES on PS2 without reading reviews or demos. I just loved it and the subtle changes. Was so excited to get the PS3/360 version and knowing of the 360 tester version the year before only to find the pace and challenge PES 2008 ruined. Since then I've stayed away from buying PES2009,2010.
I tried FIFA but apart from great animations its not for me either. I've yet to play a football game that has impressed me on the 360/PS3.
I'd like the animations of FIFA and the pace, challenge, unique spontaneous moments of the old PES games. FIFA is a poor substitute.
They really need to start over before its too late. They seem stuck in a yearly cycle of crap. Same old hype this year and their acknowledgment of poor transition to new platforms.
Ultimate777
07-06-2010, 19:08
I think you and I have a different understanding for "technique"
I loved watching Sebastian Veron, he reminded me of a Carlos Valderrama with more ambition but less elegance; extraordinary long balls, intelligent movement, one-two plays, etc, etc.
When I talk about "technique" I talk only about what the player can do with the ball, the class of the player; I do not take free-kicks nor one-twos into consideration.
When I talk about technique I am referring to Juan Roman Riquelme, when in his prime with Boca Juniors and Villarreal, could hold-on to the ball even if he had three players on him; and could do it consistently...
I just don't see and have never seen, Sebastian Veron showing the same glimpses of technical ability that players like Zinedine Zidane and Dennis Bergkamp showed on a consistent basis.,
We definitely do have different understanding for ‘technique’ You obviously have the idea that technique revolves around pace and holding up the ball. My impression of technique is skill in controlling and passing the ball. players who can inspire the attacking style of the team and do what they please with the ball. Veron is one of the best passers in the game, that should tell you he has above average technique. Let me ask you is David Beckham average in technique aswell?
As for PES,
It's obvious that we both want the game to improve, we simply have different opinions about the product in question... it's really that simple.
I do not think there is a problem with these games, the FACT is, that there is a problem with these games -- how do you feel about the problem?
That's your opinion.
You like the game, whereas on the other hand I do not enjoy this type of gameplay as much as I used to. How does that makes me incompetent or anything of the sort? ,
I don’t like the game , so you’ve obviously havnt been following properly. Thats what baffled me, you claimed 10 was the best in the series and your explanation for why it was the best game was redundant. I think the problem with PES is the animations, basic passing physics, shooting physics and ai are broken and requires to be overhauled. At the moment they are have just recycled the game with new gimmicks every year with reprehensible minor tweaking and idiotic options removals. My point is that the basic control mechanics of FIFA and PES in this generation have not altered greatly(so far) from the previous generation of consoles since its transition. But here is the thing, in my opinion PES5's set up is still as good as, if not better, than 10 and many would agree with me rather then believing that 10 is the best of the series which is your opinion, but dont dress it up as fact,. All PES5 controls would need are some slight tweaks and additions married with the ideology of the design of the game(PES5) itself. It isn't simply a case of adding another 20 minutes as you so crudely put it. Its my opinion that the positive attributes that make PES5 as highly thought of as a form of grounding when developing the franchise. The game is never going to represent every tiny detail based off real life football so you have to be realistic and use the resources at your disposal and take into account the limitations of other factors which have to be condensed and catered towards certain settings
By the way, did you mentioned the word "losing"? do you actually think that I give a fuck about winning or loosing some argument about a fucking video game? ,
I was using an analogy to a child that was losing and refuses to play because it cannot take it. Nothing to imply that this is about winning or losing an argument as there is nothing to gain. You take one word and take it out of context. Well done. I I was using that in conjunction to my sentence that you had chosen to ignore responses which challenged your concept
of the matter is that these games are unplayable outside the 10 minute time-frame. This is a clear indication of how dumb the game is, doesn't has enough substance for 20 minute matches. ,
Who wants to be playing 20 minutes matches in the first place? The game is not meant to be catered to play for 20minutes. It’s similar to someone putting the game on 45 minutes and then complaining that its boring.. no shit! What you fail to understand is that anything longer than 15 minutes will have the opposite effect and destroy the fundamentals and fun along with the whole purpose of a football game. If the game play was based around anything longer then 15 mintutes it will remove the pick up and play aspect of these genres. Every online match would be a chore, people who want time convient games would not be interested because they would be limited to the option of a playing a lesser ‘ping pong’ 10min addition as you present. So konami will never be implementing such a flawed retarded concept. As I said if you proposed your ideas to a games development team they would laugh their heads off . Changing the concept of the game would probably alienate a lot more people than it would attract and wouldn’t fit konami’s marketing policy as they would have to move in a completely new direction aiming towards hardcore simulation prefenced fans who have no life.
The series is simply in need of a overhaul in regards to gamplay that means changing the fundamentals like player movement, passing and shooting with more organic animation and off the ball while adding to the polish and attention to detail that earlier PS2 series which use to possess depth, controlled solid interface and players who were robust along with variety on the pitch. Your idea that this can only be implemented if they game time is increased is simply stupid. Your under the clouded impression that simply adding off the ball movement( one extra feature) is suddenly going to make the game worthwhile and offer more realism to justifying 40 minutes of play. You call those versions dumb yet in another sentence you’ll admit those versions provided a good football simulation. Make your mind up
PES 2010 and FIFA 2010 are both soul-less as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, I feel like PES5 and PES6 had more soul in them, but where poorer games in terms of depth; and overall, I would rather play the soul-less PES 2010 before the soul-full PES6. ,
Thats your opinion, and your view that its souless is based on the abstract rather than fact and against the majority of reviews of those earlier versions.
I never said that, those are your words, not mine; apparently your fan-boy mentality does not let you communicate, you are already judging before you even start to understand my opinion. ,
Define fan boy mentality please? You have a tendency to pigeonhole everyone that sees through your 20 min concept ideology as fan boys. Are you not a fan yourself? If not, what you are doing here?
Let me reiterate, the concept is unpractical because adding more minutes doesn’t automatically translate into a better video game. You must think that it will take up time for intelligent ai and off the movement to be demonstrated in a 10 min game when thats not true at all. Konami have shown their ability in the past to execute indivuality modality in players skills and states in a the base, template and time frame that they are already using, something which fifa still lacks
As for 10 minutes vs 20 minutes,
That's easily fixable, if a 20 Minute Sim ever happens; we should always have an option for playing 10 minute games, like for example, two different game modes: one custom-made for 10 minute matches, the other for 20 minute matches.
--------------------------------------------------
The 10 minute mode: same old automatic "pin-ball" formula
The 20 minute mode: new formula for a realistic game of Football. ,
Do you really think they are going to implement such an option, it would be a waste of harddrive space . What you’re basically suggesting is for konami making two entirely different games within one version that caters to different time settings and concepts. If the 10 minute pinball formula, as you say is an option then the gamers who want to play 10mins wouldnt have the luxury of enjoying all the new aspects? They would not be happy playing a lesser game if there is an option of playing a better game in another mode. So it will not work
What you want -- it is easily possible within a 10 minute deadline, I know what you want, as a matter of fact, everyone knows what you want.
On the other hand, what I want, is not possible in a 10 minute game, 20 minutes does not equals more ideas, more ideas will not change anything, it's about changing the concept from the ground up. ,
What I want is practical and realistic and will make the game better. What you want is a game that exactly resembles real life football at the cost of removing the pick up and play fun factor which defines the series.
Bottom Line?
Different opinions... although fact remains that these games are too dumb for 20 minute matches.
But whatever,
Continue throwing childish insults, I don't care, there's nothing I can do about it from where I'm standing; you should take a look at yourself before calling anyone a moron or incompetent.
Don't forget, PES is a video game, there's no need for stupid insults,
As for insults is that why you called me a cunt because I disagreed with your post? Stupid hypocrite.
I think that’s what you actually fail to grasp, that PES is a videogame and that they have a duty to stay true to what a video game represents. Nobody wants a totally accurate 90 minute simulation as it’ll be boring and the fun element would be taken out because no one but yourself would have the patience to play long drawn games out just to derive a little better off the ball movement. It needs to be condensed to a more convenient less time consuming format. Have you even taken to account how your concept would even effect online mode?
What people want is konami to bring back the offensive/defensive balance, the utter thrill of scoring a goal, the sheer unpredictablity in disappointment of an injury time loss, the individuality of each player, the necessity of tactics, and pure joy of winning when you had no business winning... the true essence of the game that brought people to fall in love enjoy the series in the first place
And how is it a fact these games are dumb? I will tell you again that these games are not catered towards 20 min matches thats why you’ll find them boring and in your words ‘dumb’. That’s your problem and its why I'm calling you up on it, because you think you have the all the answers above all these ‘fanboys’ that you place yourself apart from and present your inane theory as the missing ideology that’s going to fix all the flaws when in truth it’s not practical and is fundamentally flawed concept that wont work and wont ever wont happen.
For everyone banging on about technique...
There are many forms of technique and should not be placed in one stat.
Beckham has amazing technique in crossing. Xavi has amazing technique in passing. Ronaldinho for skills. Rooney for volleying the ball whilst shooting.
If anything, they shouldnt really have a technique stat!
We definitely do have different understanding for ‘technique’ You obviously have the idea that technique revolves around pace and holding up the ball. My impression of technique is skill in controlling and passing the ball. players who can inspire the attacking style of the team and do what they please with the ball. Veron is one of the best passers in the game, that should tell you he has above average technique. Let me ask you is David Beckham average in technique aswell?
I don’t like the game , so you’ve obviously havnt been following properly. Thats what baffled me, you claimed 10 was the best in the series and your explanation for why it was the best game was redundant. I think the problem with PES is the animations, basic passing physics, shooting physics and ai are broken and requires to be overhauled. At the moment they are have just recycled the game with new gimmicks every year with reprehensible minor tweaking and idiotic options removals. My point is that the basic control mechanics of FIFA and PES in this generation have not altered greatly(so far) from the previous generation of consoles since its transition. But here is the thing, in my opinion PES5's set up is still as good as, if not better, than 10 and many would agree with me rather then believing that 10 is the best of the series which is your opinion, but dont dress it up as fact,. All PES5 controls would need are some slight tweaks and additions married with the ideology of the design of the game(PES5) itself. It isn't simply a case of adding another 20 minutes as you so crudely put it. Its my opinion that the positive attributes that make PES5 as highly thought of as a form of grounding when developing the franchise. The game is never going to represent every tiny detail based off real life football so you have to be realistic and use the resources at your disposal and take into account the limitations of other factors which have to be condensed and catered towards certain settings
I was using an analogy to a child that was losing and refuses to play because it cannot take it. Nothing to imply that this is about winning or losing an argument as there is nothing to gain. You take one word and take it out of context. Well done. I I was using that in conjunction to my sentence that you had chosen to ignore responses which challenged your concept
Who wants to be playing 20 minutes matches in the first place? The game is not meant to be catered to play for 20minutes. It’s similar to someone putting the game on 45 minutes and then complaining that its boring.. no shit! What you fail to understand is that anything longer than 15 minutes will have the opposite effect and destroy the fundamentals and fun along with the whole purpose of a football game. If the game play was based around anything longer then 15 mintutes it will remove the pick up and play aspect of these genres. Every online match would be a chore, people who want time convient games would not be interested because they would be limited to the option of a playing a lesser ‘ping pong’ 10min addition as you present. So konami will never be implementing such a flawed retarded concept. As I said if you proposed your ideas to a games development team they would laugh their heads off . Changing the concept of the game would probably alienate a lot more people than it would attract and wouldn’t fit konami’s marketing policy as they would have to move in a completely new direction aiming towards hardcore simulation prefenced fans who have no life.
The series is simply in need of a overhaul in regards to gamplay that means changing the fundamentals like player movement, passing and shooting with more organic animation and off the ball while adding to the polish and attention to detail that earlier PS2 series which use to possess depth, controlled solid interface and players who were robust along with variety on the pitch. Your idea that this can only be implemented if they game time is increased is simply stupid. Your under the clouded impression that simply adding off the ball movement( one extra feature) is suddenly going to make the game worthwhile and offer more realism to justifying 40 minutes of play. You call those versions dumb yet in another sentence you’ll admit those versions provided a good football simulation. Make your mind up
Thats your opinion, and your view that its souless is based on the abstract rather than fact and against the majority of reviews of those earlier versions.
Define fan boy mentality please? You have a tendency to pigeonhole everyone that sees through your 20 min concept ideology as fan boys. Are you not a fan yourself? If not, what you are doing here?
Let me reiterate, the concept is unpractical because adding more minutes doesn’t automatically translate into a better video game. You must think that it will take up time for intelligent ai and off the movement to be demonstrated in a 10 min game when thats not true at all. Konami have shown their ability in the past to execute indivuality modality in players skills and states in a the base, template and time frame that they are already using, something which fifa still lacks
Do you really think they are going to implement such an option, it would be a waste of harddrive space . What you’re basically suggesting is for konami making two entirely different games within one version that caters to different time settings and concepts. If the 10 minute pinball formula, as you say is an option then the gamers who want to play 10mins wouldnt have the luxury of enjoying all the new aspects? They would not be happy playing a lesser game if there is an option of playing a better game in another mode. So it will not work
What I want is practical and realistic and will make the game better. What you want is a game that exactly resembles real life football at the cost of removing the pick up and play fun factor which defines the series.
As for insults is that why you called me a cunt because I disagreed with your post? Stupid hypocrite.
I think that’s what you actually fail to grasp, that PES is a videogame and that they have a duty to stay true to what a video game represents. Nobody wants a totally accurate 90 minute simulation as it’ll be boring and the fun element would be taken out because no one but yourself would have the patience to play long drawn games out just to derive a little better off the ball movement. It needs to be condensed to a more convenient less time consuming format. Have you even taken to account how your concept would even effect online mode?
What people want is konami to bring back the offensive/defensive balance, the utter thrill of scoring a goal, the sheer unpredictablity in disappointment of an injury time loss, the individuality of each player, the necessity of tactics, and pure joy of winning when you had no business winning... the true essence of the game that brought people to fall in love enjoy the series in the first place
And how is it a fact these games are dumb? I will tell you again that these games are not catered towards 20 min matches thats why you’ll find them boring and in your words ‘dumb’. That’s your problem and its why I'm calling you up on it, because you think you have the all the answers above all these ‘fanboys’ that you place yourself apart from and present your inane theory as the missing ideology that’s going to fix all the flaws when in truth it’s not practical and is fundamentally flawed concept that wont work and wont ever wont happen.
Ok I think I can work with this,
Your definition for "technique" is very general and broad, whereas on the other hand, my definition for "technique" is very specific.
I will be honest when I say that I did not read everything you said in your last post; I simply cannot bother reading through it. You do make some valid points about certain things but then you go on and ruin it with your pointless narrow-minded insults.
Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with PES 2010 -- everyone can see what the flaws are because the flaws are very obvious, and no, I do not think PES 2010 is in FACT the best version to date; like you said, it is my opinion.
I do think PES 2010 has a lot to learn from PES5 and PES6, they need to inject some life and soul into the game; at the same time, I can do things with PES 2010 that would be impossible with any PS2 version.
It may be hard for you to believe, but I have a very good idea of how good a 10 Minute Sim can be; I did played both PES5 and PES6 for about three years straight, and eventually, I became bored of the "pin-ball" formula and basically my expectations and ideals of how a Football Simulation can and should play -- evolved -- as a result.
I can enjoy playing PES5 and PES6 from time to time, I still have both games and can choose to play them whenever I want; that said, I do not want to be playing PES5 with High Def Graphics in year 2012,
One thing about the 10 minute time-frame is, how can I make this perfectly clear to you; the lack of TIME... 10 minutes are not enough, 10 minutes does not allows the user to THINK,
If THINKING became a driving force in how PES is played, it would be impossible to play 10 minute matches; human beings are too smart and clever,
Which is why, 10 Minute Simulations will never give the user the initiative of thinking, the power of using your "footballing brain" is not possible in a 10 minute simulation,
Konami came up with the Cards and Sliders, so that the "footballing brain" of the user can make more of a difference; you can use the L2 Strategies, and change both the formation of your team and the approach of your team on-the-fly,
The L2 Strategies are a feature in both PES5 and PES6, but without the Cards and Sliders it is not as useful nor as realistic,
Anyways,
The key problem with the Cards and Sliders is that, it doesn't makes the game fun to play; PES 2010 does feels soul-less despite the introduction of the Cards and Sliders.
Because the Cards and Sliders do not really touch on the outdated core gameplay mechanics, it just gives you a bit more control over how the COM will behave without the ball, etc, etc.
You simply hold the L2 button + tap any of the 4 buttons used for passing and shooting the ball -- and this will produce a little reaction from the COM.
This was used in PES5 and PES6, and it works better now because of the Sliders and the Cards; but the key problem is that you can play PES5 and then play PES 2010 and you will see that the games are basically identical, with some slight, and in my opinion, irrelevant differences.
Now you mentioned the word "fan-boy",
I think you are something of a fan-boy, all your arguments revolve around an outdated concept, when people do not agree with your views you insult them, and you have a hard time understanding the points of others; in this case, my points.
For one thing, you are debating with me, but you clearly do not understand my opinion... because you do not want to understand my opinion,
------------------------------------------------------
"Let me reiterate, the concept is unpractical because adding more minutes doesn’t automatically translate into a better video game."
------------------------------------------------------
You should know the difference between the word "fan-boy" and personal insults such as "moronic",
I judged you with the same kindness you initially judged me,
-------------------------------------------------------
"What I want is practical and realistic and will make the game better. What you want is a game that exactly resembles real life football at the cost of removing the pick up and play fun factor which defines the series."
--------------------------------------------------------
Again showing the traits of a fan-boy,
You still think the word "fun" means the same thing for everyone, you are somehow incapable of acknowledging the HUGE difference between 20 minutes and 90 minutes; and you still have no idea of what you're talking about.
As for your opinion,
I do NOT respect your opinion, a lot of people share that same opinion; I think that type of thinking is narrow-minded and regressive.
I don't have a problem with you thinking that PES5 is all that you say it is; I have a problem with you thinking that you are right when you are clearly blinded by your intent,
---------------------------------------------------
"All PES5 controls would need are some slight tweaks and additions married with the ideology of the design of the game(PES5) itself. It isn't simply a case of adding another 20 minutes as you so crudely put it."
---------------------------------------------------
Most of you guys would be happy if Konami simply developed PES5 with High Def Graphics.
As a fan of the series myself,
I can see that a lot of things cannot be properly-implemented into a 10 minute game, and in my opinion, the original ambition of PES will never truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.
I guess we have a different definition for the word "evolution",
Ultimate777
07-06-2010, 23:56
There you go, pick and choose what points you feel comfortable with and then ramble away regurgitating the same redundant opinions that you already said and changing things around as you go along. You very good at side stepping certain issues and responses instead of answering the questions that are at hand I put forward in a directly manner. Then give some lame excuse that you cant be bothered to read it all and because its got insults in. Boo hoo, you've called me far worse. In the whole of my last post I only called you a hypocrite and mainly insulted your ideas rather than directly attacked you as I do not know you except now I managed come to the conclusion that you are a simpleton. Because you wanna behave as if your above insults when you have already directly called me a c**t because you didnt like me challenging your straw man arguments that were littered with contradictions.
Your a waste of time, as you demonstrate that your clearly unable to answer any of my questions that are too challenging for your straw man concept. Until you grow some balls and actually learn to read and comphrend others opinions and respond in a likely manner, I suggest you stfu and refrain from discussion instead of embarressing yourself further in future.
There you go, pick and choose what points you feel comfortbale with and then ramble away regurgitating the same redundant opinions that you already said and changing things around as you go along. You very good at side stepping certain issues and responses instead of answering the questions that are at hand I put forward in a directly manner. Then give some lame excuse that you cant read it because its got insults in. Boo hoo, you've called me far worse. In the whole of my last post I only called you a hypocrite and mainly insulted your ideas rather than directly attacked you as I do not know you except now I managed come to the conclusion that you are a simpleton. Because you wanna behave as if your above insults when you have already directly called me a c**t because you didnt like me challenging your straw man arguments that were littered with contradictions.
Your a waste of time, as you demonstrate that your clearly unable to answer any of my questions that are too challenging for your straw man concept. Until you grow some balls and actually learn to read and comphrend others opinions and respond in a likely manner, I suggest you stfu and refrain from discussion instead of embarressing yourself further in future.
I will be honest when I say that I did not read everything you said in your last post; I simply cannot bother reading through it. You do make some obvious points about obvious things, telling people what they already now, and then you go on and make it even more boring with your pointless narrow-minded insults.
Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with PES 2010 -- everyone can see what the flaws are because the flaws are very obvious, and no, I do not think PES 2010 is in FACT the best version to date; like you said, it is my opinion.
I do think PES 2010 has a lot to learn from PES5 and PES6, they need to inject some life and soul into the game; at the same time, I can do things with PES 2010 that would be impossible with any PS2 version.
It may be hard for you to believe, but I have a very good idea of how good a 10 Minute Sim can be; I did played both PES5 and PES6 for about three years straight, and eventually, I became bored of the "pin-ball" formula and basically my expectations and ideals of how a Football Simulation can and should play -- evolved -- as a result.
I can enjoy playing PES5 and PES6 from time to time, I still have both games and can choose to play them whenever I want; that said, I do not want to be playing PES5 with High Def Graphics in year 2012,
One thing about the 10 minute time-frame is, how can I make this perfectly clear to you; the lack of TIME... 10 minutes are not enough, 10 minutes does not allows the user to THINK,
If THINKING became a driving force in how PES is played, it would be impossible to play 10 minute matches; human beings are too smart and clever,
Which is why, 10 Minute Simulations will never give the user the initiative of thinking, the power of using your "footballing brain" is not possible in a 10 minute simulation,
Konami came up with the Cards and Sliders, so that the "footballing brain" of the user can make more of a difference; you can use the L2 Strategies, and change both the formation of your team and the approach of your team on-the-fly,
The L2 Strategies are a feature in both PES5 and PES6, but without the Cards and Sliders it is not as useful nor as realistic,
Anyways,
The key problem with the Cards and Sliders is that, it doesn't makes the game fun to play; PES 2010 does feels soul-less despite the introduction of the Cards and Sliders.
Because the Cards and Sliders do not really touch on the outdated core gameplay mechanics, it just gives you a bit more control over how the COM will behave without the ball, etc, etc.
You simply hold the L2 button + tap any of the 4 buttons used for passing and shooting the ball -- and this will produce a little reaction from the COM.
This was used in PES5 and PES6, and it works better now because of the Sliders and the Cards; but the key problem is that you can play PES5 and then play PES 2010 and you will see that the games are basically identical, with some slight, and in my opinion, irrelevant differences.
Now you mentioned the word "fan-boy",
I think you are something of a fan-boy, all your arguments revolve around an outdated concept, when people do not agree with your views you insult them, and you have a hard time understanding the points of others; in this case, my points.
For one thing, you are debating with me, but you clearly do not understand my opinion... because you do not want to understand my opinion,
------------------------------------------------------
"Let me reiterate, the concept is unpractical because adding more minutes doesn’t automatically translate into a better video game."
------------------------------------------------------
You should know the difference between the word "fan-boy" and personal insults such as "moronic",
I judged you with the same kindness you initially judged me,
-------------------------------------------------------
"What I want is practical and realistic and will make the game better. What you want is a game that exactly resembles real life football at the cost of removing the pick up and play fun factor which defines the series."
--------------------------------------------------------
Again showing the traits of a fan-boy,
You still think the word "fun" means the same thing for everyone, you are somehow incapable of acknowledging the HUGE difference between 20 minutes and 90 minutes; and you still have no idea of what you're talking about.
As for your opinion,
I do NOT respect your opinion, a lot of people share that same opinion; I think that type of thinking is narrow-minded and regressive.
I don't have a problem with you thinking that PES5 is all that you say it is; I have a problem with you thinking that you are right when you are clearly blinded by your intent,
---------------------------------------------------
"All PES5 controls would need are some slight tweaks and additions married with the ideology of the design of the game(PES5) itself. It isn't simply a case of adding another 20 minutes as you so crudely put it."
---------------------------------------------------
Most of you guys would be happy if Konami simply developed PES5 with High Def Graphics.
As a fan of the series myself,
I can see that a lot of things cannot be properly-implemented into a 10 minute game, and in my opinion, the original ambition of PES will never truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.
I guess we have a different definition for the word "evolution",
Even though 20 minutes sounds alot of time but it may become more realistic.
In a 10 minute sim like Amateur said, you can't play a football match because time won't allow it so you rush into things because there's not enough time. Yes this happens in fifa 10 aswell. Rushing and sometimes without thinking because all you think about is time.
In real football that's not the case.
In real football you have to time everything.
However I think that both pes and fifa should stay a 10 minutes sim but ADD a new 20+ minutes sim for those who want to play a better sim of real football.
Still I think that both pes and fifa can evolve more in the 10 min sim part because both of them have close to game breaking issues. Pes has more I know.
But fifa's shooting sucks big time and that's part of football. Fifa's heading is not on par with reality. Fifa's individuality does not exist. But the worst of it is the AI. But it's a different story as to why the AI sucks. Pes' AI also sucks btw but for different reasons.
That said, fifa 10 does play much better than pes 10 but that doesn't make it an awesome sim either because of it's flaws which are still not fixed. Fifa 09 played better for example but had other issues.
Even though 20 minutes sounds alot of time but it may become more realistic.
In a 10 minute sim like Amateur said, you can't play a football match because time won't allow it so you rush into things because there's not enough time. Yes this happens in fifa 10 aswell. Rushing and sometimes without thinking because all you think about is time.
In real football that's not the case.
In real football you have to time everything.
However I think that both pes and fifa should stay a 10 minutes sim but ADD a new 20+ minutes sim for those who want to play a better sim of real football.
Still I think that both pes and fifa can evolve more in the 10 min sim part because both of them have close to game breaking issues. Pes has more I know.
But fifa's shooting sucks big time and that's part of football. Fifa's heading is not on par with reality. Fifa's individuality does not exist. But the worst of it is the AI. But it's a different story as to why the AI sucks. Pes' AI also sucks btw but for different reasons.
That said, fifa 10 does play much better than pes 10 but that doesn't make it an awesome sim either because of it's flaws which are still not fixed. Fifa 09 played better for example but had other issues.
10min,20min......how about just implementing a 90min simualtion? Then we will be playing the reealll thing. Yeaahhh...:w00t
Amatuer really messed you guys up with this 20min thing, hasn't he? He has been going at this idea for about 2yrs now .just destroying threads with this ridiculous idea of his..seriously.
Why don't we all just start posting what we want (that will never be implemented) in our next VIDEO GAME.
I wants young voluptous women boobies in the crowd when there is a cut scene. That would make the game simulation much better. A game without naked boobies will never ever be realistic. Konami needs to add this to their game or the simulation will not reach its full potential.
Anyone else? :blush:
Its a bit confusing here! I thought we were all on the same side.
We are here discussing a Video Game and all i can see is a lot of cussing no discussing.
Tech_Skill has a lot of solid points and I like the way he puts his points across at times....but someone needs to put him in a headlock and wash his mouth out with detergent. He curses like a pirate ..which is not at all bad.....but he curses at others. Thats no good! :no:
Ladies....Stop the bickering. It does not look good. Make a point...and take a point.
Breaking news!
The blue sky team of 200 is said to have been working on PES 2011 for the past two years. However, the early showing of PES 2011 has raised some concerns for fans who thinks the game looks a bit like 2010 with many of the promised additions and fixes not yet realized. With only 4 months until release, can the 200 man blue sky team fix what they have not been able to do in 2 years?
Your feedback ....belooowww!
10min,20min......how about just implementing a 90min simualtion? Then we will be playing the reealll thing. Yeaahhh...:w00t
Amatuer really messed you guys up with this 20min thing, hasn't he? He has been going at this idea for about 2yrs now .just destroying threads with this ridiculous idea of his..seriously.
Why don't we all just start posting what we want (that will never be implemented) in our next VIDEO GAME.
I wants young voluptous women boobies in the crowd when there is a cut scene. That would make the game simulation much better. A game without naked boobies will never ever be realistic. Konami needs to add this to their game or the simulation will not reach its full potential.
Anyone else? :blush:
You haven't read my post properly have you? Because if you have, you'll clearly understand my point of view which is slightly different to Amateur's.
I said that both pes and fifa can be a 10 min sim but they BOTH need to evolve because they're both not up to date with what the ps3/360 can handle.
Also about the 20 min + concept.
You didn't get my point.
In a 10 min game, EVERYONE tends to rush at things in the game because you do not have enough time. And real football is not like that all the time.
But if you set it more than 10 mins, the game will turn arcade like with goals.
So if we truly want a proper sim, 10 minutes are not enough. If you can't understand this, I do not know what then because it's straight to the point.
However I never said that they can't be a 10 minute sim. THEY CAN.
But it will never be 100% life like because of time.
Still the way I see it is that 10 minutes are enough because I would probable get bored. So I think that evolving the 10 min concept is highly needed because at this point, both pes and fifa have major flaws. In pes they're more evident, but in fifa they're hidden but still felt.
TheStanchion
08-06-2010, 08:53
Breaking news!
The blue sky team of 200 is said to have been working on PES 2011 for the past two years. However, the early showing of PES 2011 has raised some concerns for fans who thinks the game looks a bit like 2010 with many of the promised additions and fixes not yet realized. With only 4 months until release, can the 200 man blue sky team fix what they have not been able to do in 2 years?
Your feedback ....belooowww!
I think that is the central issue regarding PES2011 - everything else is looking back on a hugely successful past and wondering how and why it all went wrong.
I think I remember reading somewhere that the blue-sky team passed whatever they did with PES2011 to the main PES Productions team a fair while ago - they aren't involved with PES2011 and are working on PES2012 at the moment.
The fundamental worry I have is the same as yours - with 4 months to go, how will such problems that are evident from most of the gameplay videos (as well press impressions) be fixed if they haven't been tackled in the past 18 months?
Ultimate777
08-06-2010, 10:49
I will be honest when I say that I did not read everything you said in your last post; I simply cannot bother reading through it. You do make some obvious points about obvious things, telling people what they already now, and then you go on and make it even more boring with your pointless narrow-minded insults.
Yep you didn’t bother reading it because it’s basically too much for your simplistic brain and instead pick and choose the points that you want and take out of context and base an opinion on which is not even valid
Likewise your posts are boring and repetitive stressing the same points over and over again while ignoring questions at hand regarding how this concept can be implemented practically with fan boy comments planted everywhere that only make you sound like a spoilt brat.
You even have a separate thread about this grand concept where you just keep copying and pasting from to reiterate the same points in describing your idea, when I already know what you think, what I want to know is how its going to work realistically within the confines of the game while at the same time cater to the many fans of the series which you have failed to explain. Nevertheless I still give the courtesy to respond to each of your points in a direct manner
Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with PES 2010 -- everyone can see what the flaws are because the flaws are very obvious, and no, I do not think PES 2010 is in FACT the best version to date; like you said, it is my opinion.
I do think PES 2010 has a lot to learn from PES5 and PES6, they need to inject some life and soul into the game; at the same time, I can do things with PES 2010 that would be impossible with any PS2 version.
It may be hard for you to believe, but I have a very good idea of how good a 10 Minute Sim can be; I did played both PES5 and PES6 for about three years straight, and eventually, I became bored of the "pin-ball" formula and basically my expectations and ideals of how a Football Simulation can and should play -- evolved -- as a result.
I can enjoy playing PES5 and PES6 from time to time, I still have both games and can choose to play them whenever I want; that said, I do not want to be playing PES5 with High Def Graphics in year 2012,
One thing about the 10 minute time-frame is, how can I make this perfectly clear to you; the lack of TIME... 10 minutes are not enough, 10 minutes does not allows the user to THINK,
If THINKING became a driving force in how PES is played, it would be impossible to play 10 minute matches; human beings are too smart and clever,
Which is why, 10 Minute Simulations will never give the user the initiative of thinking, the power of using your "footballing brain" is not possible in a 10 minute simulation,
Thinking is mainly to do with the tactical side of game and the teams styles on the pitch figuring ways to work around each opponent in certain situational decisions in determining the possible outcome of the game requiring the user to decide when to know to make the appropriate decisions on the field. Skills, anticipation, positioning and ai are cross-referenced to show how they relate to one another and to enable you to plan situations quickly which make or break the result which is where your football brain comes into play. Nothing to do with time, son. If that were the case every football manager game with its 3d game engine would have a set setting of 20+ minute matches and no one would waste their time with its current format because according to you humans are too clever and smart for such time restricted contingency. The tactical effectiveness is something which has been limited in the last three versions as everything has become automated and done for you, leading to less responsibility and requirement of changing and adapting tactics during the game. So there is less thinking in that respect.
This is something konami are clearly working on improving in pes11 in terms of manual output and increasing tactical awareness so I have no idea where you get the idea that it’ll be impossible to make the thinking aspect the main driving force. It can be easily changed from a quick ping pong arcade fast paced game into a more slower measured chest player style game without needing to change the time frame measure and redo the scale from scratch. It simply involves tweaking tactical ai and giving the user great tactical responsibility. You've ignored the fact that Konami plan on taking out assisted AI intervention during matches; while bringing more responsibliy to the users to anticipate opponents threats on goals, giving them the freedom to sense and react to threats where ai dont automatically close space and all run together towards the opponent like rapid dogs. They are working towards taking out the automated function of the ai lending you the hand to chase the ball and cut out spaces and do all the thinking for you. So as I see it that will be the key changing how you think and interpret the game on the pitch if they can do this successfully. Not increasing the game time as its not necessary,
Konami came up with the Cards and Sliders, so that the "footballing brain" of the user can make more of a difference; you can use the L2 Strategies, and change both the formation of your team and the approach of your team on-the-fly,
The L2 Strategies are a feature in both PES5 and PES6, but without the Cards and Sliders it is not as useful nor as realistic,
Anyways,
The key problem with the Cards and Sliders is that, it doesn't makes the game fun to play; PES 2010 does feels soul-less despite the introduction of the Cards and Sliders.
Because the Cards and Sliders do not really touch on the outdated core gameplay mechanics, it just gives you a bit more control over how the COM will behave without the ball, etc, etc
Wrong, the cards and sliders where just new gimmicks, they were never there to enhance anyone’s football brain. The cards have an influence on what certain players can and cannot do similar to stats. The sliders were there to choose to determine how your team set out. You hardly need a football brain to figure out whether you want your team to attack or defend. Using L2 stratagies does have an effect, as it makes the team either go gung-ho or sit back and defend a lead as well as configuring the shape of the team. They were never there to provide the main changes to the gameplay to revolutionise the series. They were there to enhance player individuality and manipulate the movement of a selected player and teams playing styles. The 360 freedom of movement was meant to be the main feature last year which was meant to change the core gameplay but was never incorporated correctly.
You simply hold the L2 button + tap any of the 4 buttons used for passing and shooting the ball -- and this will produce a little reaction from the COM.
This was used in PES5 and PES6, and it works better now because of the Sliders and the Cards; but the key problem is that you can play PES5 and then play PES 2010 and you will see that the games are basically identical, with some slight, and in my opinion, irrelevant differences.
Now you mentioned the word "fan-boy",
I think you are something of a fan-boy, all your arguments revolve around an outdated concept, when people do not agree with your views you insult them, and you have a hard time understanding the points of others; in this case, my points.
You finally managed to realise that the L2 feature was already in PES6 after I had to correct you when you said they were what made difference compared to 2010. I only insult others opinions if they are clearly stupid and not well thought out. If a poster came online and said they thought Konami only needed to heighten emotional expressiveness to the players on the pitch to where they were showing the same degree of dissatisfaction to rl from showing every emotion to their teammates, managers, linesmen, and referees increasing the cut scenes in order for the game to evolve and continuingly arguing that unless these feature wasn’t included then the game would remain dumb, I would simply have to explain to them why its stupid and serve only as a distraction. It’s not me that has a problem with others calling them fan boys because they don’t agree, its you that has the spoilt brat attitude problem because not everyone comes around to your concept
For one thing, you are debating with me, but you clearly do not understand my opinion... because you do not want to understand my opinion,
I understand your opinion clearly, and explained already why it won’t work and why it won’t ever happen. We can even do a poll if you like? You’ve proven my point that anyone you disagrees with you and shows you how flawed your concept is then you see fit to label as a fan boy. Which I take as an insult considering your definition of it is derogative .
You still haven’t managed to addressthe questions where I asked you how will it affect online mode where true gamers want a time convenient experience that is compatable with tournament with friends? how will both the 10min and 20min be implemented to satisfy both sets of fans if only the 20min option has the luxury of having real life simulation aspects while 10min is basically the same model of previous versions? How will this effect master league if 40 mathces per season are 20 mins long?
You should know the difference between the word "fan-boy" and personal insults such as "moronic",
I judged you with the same kindness you initially judged me,
Your definition of a fan boy seems to involve someone who is narrow minded and regressive right? So how is that much different to calling someone moronic?
Again showing the traits of a fan-boy,
You still think the word "fun" means the same thing for everyone, you are somehow incapable of acknowledging the HUGE difference between 20 minutes and 90 minutes; and you still have no idea of what you're talking about.
In terms of gameplay fun in terms of the universal understanding of the word, is the recreational use of the game which brings the casual gamers back for more entertainment and amusement. Gamers in the football genre want a user friendly format that is compatible with onlime gaming and multiplayer use game without putting in long hours spending time focusing on one match alone. Football games you need the correct balance of simulation and arcade pick up and play, Your theory doesn’t have this balance as, your idea is to put two totally different games in one version with the casual gamer missing out on the new systems and prolonging the hours of play. You want to completely shake up that balance and prefer to cater solely to simulation aspects. I was using the 90 minutes as an analogy as an example to the ridiculous nature of your suggestion that 20minutes gives more realism - as is the same to say why not go all out and go like for like and give it real game minutes then every aspect of real life can be imitated surely right, according to your logic?
As for your opinion,
I do NOT respect your opinion, a lot of people share that same opinion; I think that type of thinking is narrow-minded and regressive.
I don't have a problem with you thinking that PES5 is all that you say it is; I have a problem with you thinking that you are right when you are clearly blinded by your intent,
You don’t respect anyone’s opinions,that doesn’t agree with your theory so you are only describing yourself when you point to narrow mindedness and regression. No one wants the game to remain the same simply with new graphics. I’ve gone into great detail regarding the changes that need to take place to bring the game forward, something which you agreed on. You try and take the moral high ground but your still a cretin, the traits of a fan-boy?? What are all these traits? I was under the impression that a fan boy is a supporter of the series? You admitted your a fan, so how come your not fanboy? I don’t think im right, I know I’m right because your idea is unrealistic and wont ever happen in a football game
Most of you guys would be happy if Konami simply developed PES5 with High Def Graphics.
As a fan of the series myself,
I can see that a lot of things cannot be properly-implemented into a 10 minute game, and in my opinion, the original ambition of PES will never truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.
I guess we have a different definition for the word "evolution",
konami has the capabilities to implement and evolve the game with new aspects to the the gamplay as they have proven in the past without screwing up the time aspect. ISS and ISS 98, and the subsequent Pro Evo series evolved into ISS Pro Evo 2 on the PS2 and was widely considered to be the pinnacle of the series. So your assumption that it can only evolve ever again if it ever decides to come to your logic and change the 10 min concept is naive and redundant
You haven't read my post properly have you? Because if you have, you'll clearly understand my point of view which is slightly different to Amateur's.
I said that both pes and fifa can be a 10 min sim but they BOTH need to evolve because they're both not up to date with what the ps3/360 can handle.
Also about the 20 min + concept.
You didn't get my point.
In a 10 min game, EVERYONE tends to rush at things in the game because you do not have enough time. And real football is not like that all the time.
But if you set it more than 10 mins, the game will turn arcade like with goals.
So if we truly want a proper sim, 10 minutes are not enough. If you can't understand this, I do not know what then because it's straight to the point.
However I never said that they can't be a 10 minute sim. THEY CAN.
But it will never be 100% life like because of time.
Still the way I see it is that 10 minutes are enough because I would probable get bored. So I think that evolving the 10 min concept is highly needed because at this point, both pes and fifa have major flaws. In pes they're more evident, but in fifa they're hidden but still felt.
Sup Shaun,
Forgive me, i wasn't poking critism at you...it was Amatuer. But if i do it directly at him he will come back with pages and pages of descriptions of why we need a 20min sim.
Your explanation is fine.
I think that is the central issue regarding PES2011 - everything else is looking back on a hugely successful past and wondering how and why it all went wrong.
I think I remember reading somewhere that the blue-sky team passed whatever they did with PES2011 to the main PES Productions team a fair while ago - they aren't involved with PES2011 and are working on PES2012 at the moment.
The fundamental worry I have is the same as yours - with 4 months to go, how will such problems that are evident from most of the gameplay videos (as well press impressions) be fixed if they haven't been tackled in the past 18 months?
Sup Stanchion,
I read the same comments on WENB i think about the blue sky team moving to 2012. That would not make any sense at all since 2011 is far from finished.
My concerns are genuinely the same as others, the game is clearly unfinished and it is early yet...but how many times have we seen this. In 2010 the button lag on passing was discovered months before its release. Was it addressed?
In one of the articles i read recently, the journalist also report button lag in the current game. We are all just hoping that it will be fixed soon.
I predicted this already. First all the press of great promises then the video then the 10% build ..20 build excuses then the demo then concerns then the release .....and here we go again.
With Konami its always just a full circle.
Yep you didn’t bother reading it because it’s basically too much for your simplistic brain and instead pick and choose the points that you want and take out of context and base an opinion on which is not even valid
Hey Football777,
Wassup dude? Just a hint here...you are beating a dead horse.
Amatuer is passionate about this 20min thingy ...but it is not mentioned anywhere at anytime as an addition to any game. He fabricated it. It has nothing to do with PES or FIFa.
Let him bask in his own creativity...its his opinion and he deserves it.
Ultimate777
08-06-2010, 12:15
I'm aware of that, what irratates me is his insistence and arrogance in believing that the only way the game can be improved is by introducing this idea of a 20min concept. Then labelling everyone else fanboys because they see the holes in it and are able to see that it is no way the only foreseeable option of improving the game to the standards that we all expect. Its fanatical and deluded at best.
lets all stop arguing and just hope that konami deliver us a great game this year
At last! Some common sense!
I'm aware of that, what irratates me is his insistence and arrogance in believing that the only way the game can be improved is by introducing this idea of a 20min concept.
People are entitled to their own opinions. You were complaining not long ago about people doing the same things you are now. Behave.
One day away & I come back to pointlessly long posts and childish bikering. If I could be arsed to read through everones posts you'd probably all be on a booking.
Pack it in & keep it civil.
Even though 20 minutes sounds alot of time but it may become more realistic.
In a 10 minute sim like Amateur said, you can't play a football match because time won't allow it so you rush into things because there's not enough time. Yes this happens in fifa 10 aswell. Rushing and sometimes without thinking because all you think about is time.
In real football that's not the case.
In real football you have to time everything.
However I think that both pes and fifa should stay a 10 minutes sim but ADD a new 20+ minutes sim for those who want to play a better sim of real football.
Still I think that both pes and fifa can evolve more in the 10 min sim part because both of them have close to game breaking issues. Pes has more I know.
But fifa's shooting sucks big time and that's part of football. Fifa's heading is not on par with reality. Fifa's individuality does not exist. But the worst of it is the AI. But it's a different story as to why the AI sucks. Pes' AI also sucks btw but for different reasons.
That said, fifa 10 does play much better than pes 10 but that doesn't make it an awesome sim either because of it's flaws which are still not fixed. Fifa 09 played better for example but had other issues.
Instead of listening to fan-boys who have no credibility as far as the 10 minute vs 20 minute debate goes,
Just ask yourself -- is 20 minutes really a lot of time? how many 10 minute matches do you play? and what difference would it make if you had the option to choose between a 10 minute mode and a 20 minute mode?
I feel like the people debating against the 20 Minute Concept are in no position to argue against it, simply because they clearly do NOT understand the point of it.
10 Minute Concept -- easy to exploit obvious flaws, boring for purists
20 Minute Concept -- impossible to exploit obvious flaws, great for purists
Anyways, I don't particularly care that much anyways, I don't think that I will have the time to play any video games in the future, and even if I did have some spare time; I know where the money is, and I know that a 20 Minute Sim may not happen anytime soon,
As for player individuality, I think that PES5 and PES6 are hugely overrated in that respect... super-human stamina, super-human perception, lack of dribbling animations, overrated player individuality, outdated games running on an outdated concept.
As for 20 minutes vs 10 minutes,
We have a lot of boring and narrow-minded fan-boys in here,
I have never said that a 10 Minute Simulation cannot continue improving; what I did say was very simple, I do not think the original ambition of PES will ever truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.
People take this and they start a pointless debate about 10 minutes vs 20 minutes,
I have no interest in such pointless debates, if the game wants to EVOLVE then a 20 Minute Concept is the way to go, if the game wants QUESTIONABLE IMPROVEMENTS than the 10 Minute Concept will suffice.
I think we can satisfy both parties, by simply giving the user the option of choosing between 3 different gameplay modes, each gameplay mode would revolve around a completely different concept and would therefore play a completely different game of Football:
-----------------------------------------------------
* 10 Minute Mode: the same old "pin-ball" formula, with lots of obvious flaws to exploit, such as: super-human stamina, super-human perspective, lack of player individuality, etc, etc.
* 20 Minute Mode: a completely new take on Football Simulation, a concept where the COM would ASK the user what to do, instead of telling the user what to do. A concept where the players on the pitch behave like human beings, with realistic player individuality, and with no obvious flaws to exploit.
* BAL Mode: a concept where you only have control over one individual at all times.
-----------------------------------------------------
This would be a proper evolution, an improvement in every respect; and when you get bored with the same old 10 Minute Simulation, you can always give the 20 Minute Sim a try and see how that works out,
TheStanchion
08-06-2010, 19:56
Sup Stanchion,
I read the same comments on WENB i think about the blue sky team moving to 2012. That would not make any sense at all since 2011 is far from finished.
My concerns are genuinely the same as others, the game is clearly unfinished and it is early yet...but how many times have we seen this. In 2010 the button lag on passing was discovered months before its release. Was it addressed?
In one of the articles i read recently, the journalist also report button lag in the current game. We are all just hoping that it will be fixed soon.
I predicted this already. First all the press of great promises then the video then the 10% build ..20 build excuses then the demo then concerns then the release .....and here we go again.
With Konami its always just a full circle.
If the 'behind-closed-doors' playtests for journo's at E3 complain about response lag, missing animations and transitions, and those other issues identified in the previews of May, then we may as well accept the fact that they won't be fixed in time for release.
To constantly beat the 'its early code' drum is getting stale and annoying pretty fast IMO. I'm not one of those who subscribe to the theory that everything will be magically fixed come Gamescom. It just ain't going to happen, and the next step will be to ask 'why not this year?' What reason are the Konami-apologists going to trot out this year for failings?
If I'm wrong, I'll eat humble pie for sure - but I've been burnt too many times, and I'm getting wise to Konami's schtick.
byrnie05
08-06-2010, 20:32
The idea behind the 20-minute concept would require the midfield to spend the majority of the game sending inaccurate balls up front whilst a steadfast defence clears their lines constantly and you might spend 20 minutes to see one goal at the end. The investment of a game requires reward and on a time vs reward scale, it wouldn't really add up to a worthwhile game.
@Amateur. Hey, I said it myself that a 10 min game can never be life like. You need more than 10 minutes if you want a proper sim but that doesn't mean that the 10 min sim that are the current pes and fifa can't evolve more either.
I just want both options available. Even though in more than 10 minutes, the game will be more life like. But still the 10 min game can become a better sim than it is now anyway.
Die Hard Pes Fan
08-06-2010, 20:45
Amateur: I'm a little confused pal. Could you explain the concept to me in detail. Just of everything, what it would include, how it would improve realism etc etc.
As for Football777 I'm sorry but your a idiot. I'm not just talking about this thread but others too. Such as people desribe what they want in the thread (pes 2010 dicussion) 'improvements/ what you want added in pes 2012' a bit of harmless fun, fun ideas, serious ideas, and opinions on other peoples views. But you just basically say 'they are shit' and that we should want gameplay etc. Amateur is right- people who you don't agree with you just give insults. Also same as Amateur I have stopper reading your big long posts, no point reading the same shit over and over again. You will probably say then why are you reading Amateur's, well because I want to understand his 20min concept.
*Now because I don't understand, here comes the idiot remark*
Edit: Sorry mean PES 2011 not 2012! And Stopped not Stopper! Writing on iPod, which has spell checker on and sometimes I hit the wrong button.
thenotsogood
08-06-2010, 21:19
I'd easily say what Amateur is saying is understandable, and he hasn't been all that offensive, yet he's getting shit. On another note, I fully agree with the 20-minute sim, 20 minutes isn't that long really when you think about it.
That said, I think PES/FIFA need to master the 10 minute sim before even thinking about moving to (or catering for) a 20 minute sim. I think the point where they can even begin to look at that is about 3-5 games down the line. One thing I'd like to add (or reiterate, depending if I've missed it), is that the 20 minute sim should encourage individualism in players. I can't really explain it, but if you spend a good 5 minutes trying to start a build up, it would be more realistic to have one player suddenly have the ability to "do something", I'm talking like the Rooney's and the Gerrard's (hey, I could think of better examples, if you want to argue that fact). And hopefully, the players who have a higher teamwork skill will actually show it.
The idea behind the 20-minute concept would require the midfield to spend the majority of the game sending inaccurate balls up front whilst a steadfast defence clears their lines constantly and you might spend 20 minutes to see one goal at the end. The investment of a game requires reward and on a time vs reward scale, it wouldn't really add up to a worthwhile game.
Not at all,
If we had never seen a Football Simulation before, never ever seen one, and somebody came and said "hey, I think we can make a 10 Minute Football Simulation" -- would you believe him?
Or would you say something like this: "how can you make a 10 minute video game about a game that is supposed to be 90 minutes long?"
Well, whatever your answer would be...
I think you would not believe him, because you are too narrow-minded to understand that if a 10 Minute Simulation works fine to a certain extent; then by the same principle, a 20 Minute Simulation would also work fine, different, 10 minutes longer, but at the end of the 20 minutes it should feel like you had enough chances to win the game.
It is important to know, when talking about this subject, that simply playing a 20 minute game when the core gameplay mechanics revolve around a 10 Minute Concept -- would not work, it would only highlight the flaws of the 10 Minute Simulation.
We are already seeing the limitations of 10 Minute Simulations: super-human stamina, super-human perception, lack of player individuality, lack of control over the off-the-ball movement of your team, etc, etc.
Both Konami and EA know it, these companies are not as stupid as some fan-boys think, and it is very possible that in the future they might simply include a new gameplay mode into the game.
Satisfying both fan-boys and non-fan-boys would only mean more money for these companies... so it is very possible that, eventually, we will see a new take on the game,
We now have the relatively new "BAL Mode" -- do not be surprised if by year 2014 both FIFA and PES will include a "20 Minute Mode"
It's just a matter of changing the concept, if you cannot see past the 10 Minute Concept; then you will not be able to imagine how much better a 20 Minute Sim would be,
The 10 Minute Concept takes a lot of fun out of the game, you may think that it is fun because it's "pick up and play" -- but -- how do you know that when you have never played a 20 Minute Football Simulation?
You are already saying NO to something that you currently don't understand, something that you have never seen before; that's just narrow-minded and regressive in my opinion.
i test my teams in a 15m match, i cant do it in a 10m bcuz as soon as i begin to see the changes i make to the formation and tactics the halves end. so i believe ten minutes doesnt give you enough time to test tactical changes. but once im happy with the changes ive done, i dont care playing 10 minutes matches.
i also dont play with the team im editing tactics, i play against it, to see how it is improving, so i chose Honduras and i been going back and forth from exhibition to edit mode tweaking the formation, and i have made of it a super challenging team with out raising players stats. then i play against a similar small team e.g. chile mexico to compare my tactics to the default ones, and its unbeilvable how awful konami makes the default formations.
in conclusion you can make any team play fantastic football in pes2010, something you cant do in fifa. i think gameplay is great as long as you know how to edit tactics, and i hope for 2011 konami can make the players run smoothly and make real life like body movements and not the robotic cluncky ones 2010 has.
I'd easily say what Amateur is saying is understandable, and he hasn't been all that offensive, yet he's getting shit. On another note, I fully agree with the 20-minute sim, 20 minutes isn't that long really when you think about it.
That said, I think PES/FIFA need to master the 10 minute sim before even thinking about moving to (or catering for) a 20 minute sim. I think the point where they can even begin to look at that is about 3-5 games down the line. One thing I'd like to add (or reiterate, depending if I've missed it), is that the 20 minute sim should encourage individualism in players. I can't really explain it, but if you spend a good 5 minutes trying to start a build up, it would be more realistic to have one player suddenly have the ability to "do something", I'm talking like the Rooney's and the Gerrard's (hey, I could think of better examples, if you want to argue that fact). And hopefully, the players who have a higher teamwork skill will actually show it.
Your comments are spot-on,
It's cool to know that at least a few other people (besides myself) can see that a 20 Minute Sim would have more substance and space for better and more realistic player individuality.
Like you said, the ability to "do something" to "create something" from out of nothing -- currently -- it looses it's meaning because it's all we can do.
We should have to THINK in order to create opportunities, at the moment, you know that opportunities present themselves from out of the blue, you know that the COM is dictating how the SCRIPT unfolds throughout the game; giving the game a very automatic and monotonous feel.
And this is a problem with PES5, PES6, PES 2010, FIFA 2010 -- pretty much every 10 Minute Sim that has been produced,
That said, I do agree that you should know how to walk properly before even thinking about running; but at the same time, I think not talking about the limitations of 10 Minute Sims will make Konami think that our expectations are easy to meet, thus giving them a valid excuse for their lack of innovation.
milly_willy
08-06-2010, 22:55
Don't know if any one has posted this video yet as I haven't seen it around. Just saw this today. It's a beta version of two guys just having a muck around on pes 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd436xh-83k
website: Youtube Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd436xh-83k)
GuNNerZae
09-06-2010, 00:49
Just a quick question... when's the next piece of PES 2011 footage going to available for viewing. I've heard of the 'E3' event that will apparently be showcasing the latest piece of work but i thought that theres a possibility that they release some footage earlier. i don't know which is why i'm asking. please be specific, that is, dates will be appreciated.
regards, GunnerZae
TheStanchion
09-06-2010, 11:02
Just a quick question... when's the next piece of PES 2011 footage going to available for viewing. I've heard of the 'E3' event that will apparently be showcasing the latest piece of work but i thought that theres a possibility that they release some footage earlier. i don't know which is why i'm asking. please be specific, that is, dates will be appreciated.
regards, GunnerZae
PES2011 will only be shown behind closed doors to journalists at E3. What we will have is the impressions of the code they played - so expect similar previews to what we received at the start of June on how the game has improved (or not) from those play-tests in Tokyo.
YH I Agree aswell that we will get playtest imressions , but still thats good enough , hopefully konami are looking at them .
Played pro yesterday , playing similtaniously with fifa wc 2010
lol they seriously need to improve commentry and the atmoshphere to a large exctent pes10 felt what dead .
Ultimate777
09-06-2010, 11:33
People are entitled to their own opinions. You were complaining not long ago about people doing the same things you are now. Behave.
One day away & I come back to pointlessly long posts and childish bikering. If I could be arsed to read through everones posts you'd probably all be on a booking.
Pack it in & keep it civil. .
Mod missing the point of the thread and not following posts shocker!
Keep up before telling me to behave please.
I’ve kept this very civil however it seems beyond many to read beyond a few sentences before they implode upon themselves and start rambling rubbish as demonstrated through DHPF's post below. Probably why the game has become ever more so simplistic and linear with little attention to detail - to cater towards the short attention span of the new gamers that have breeded since its latter productions.
One on another hand we have a long term poster who is not just posting an opinion, but a concept which he believes is in FACT the only direction that will improve the game. While all other ideas are from un-credible ‘’fanboys’’ while he actually admits to himself being a fan! - a word which he uses in a derogative terms towards others as if their lesser species from himself while he's allowed to spout off and get worked up calling people a c**t with no repeal .
And then you have the cheek to talk to me about intolerance? Amatuer is the equivalent of a fifafan coming here trawling and flooding the forums calling out everyone pesfanboys who dont agree with his distorted view that unless pes becomes replica to fifa in everyway then it will never evolve. I know as a mod this would not be tolerated on any pes forum, as it gets tiresome when it simply winds up other members, especially when the individual in question has an IQ of a donkey and thinks he's being original.
Now I have no problems with opinions let’s get that clear. I have problems with people stating something and seeming to think it is true just because they say it then insulting others when they don’t agree or are simply ask relevant questions towards how it will practically work inside the game without ruining other central aspects. At this point amateur failed to answer those important questions in my last post and resorted to simply explaining simply why he wants it and how no fan boy will understand. This is a forum where debate is centrefold, if you post something senseless be prepared to be challenged on those points.
As for Football777 I'm sorry but your a idiot. I'm not just talking about this thread but others too. Such as people desribe what they want in the thread (pes 2010 dicussion) 'improvements/ what you want added in pes 2012' a bit of harmless fun, fun ideas, serious ideas, and opinions on other peoples views. But you just basically say 'they are shit' and that we should want gameplay etc. Amateur is right- people who you don't agree with you just give insults. Also same as Amateur I have stopper reading your big long posts, no point reading the same shit over and over again. You will probably say then why are you reading Amateur's, well because I want to understand his 20min concept. .
Have you seen what you done there with your pointless diatribe? You’ve accused me of insulting others calling their views shit if I don’t agree, yet you’ve just called me an idiot and accused amateur of posting the same ‘shit’. Well done, you've proven all by yourself in one post to be a hypocrite.
I will not be continuing the debate because obviously amateur has hammered and drilled his mind-numbing concept into the brains of the simple folk who cannot seem to proofread past a few sentences and see basic errors in logic.
Who cannot see that a 20minute sim will have a detrimental effect in online play, ML mode where you'll have to play up 36 league matches at 40mins thats not including the various cup tournaments. While multiplayer mode where you'll have friends round(if you have any) waiting 40 minutes between each game and thats not even taking in if it goes to extra time. And if we go along with his idea that't be 10mins each half culminating to total of 60minutes. All this while disabling new features concurrent in a selected standard 10minute mode. He proposes two different games in terms of playability within one version. How will that ever work with konami needing to implement two different statistical database for the players to coincide and make difference with a 10min vs 20min? These are all points which I've put forward and havnt been addressed and wont, because amatuer is clearly incapable of debating these issues as he hasnt actually thought it through as well as he'd like to believe. In which case he should stfu and keep his views to himself if he cannot back them up.
Mod missing the point of the thread and not following posts shocker!
Keep up before telling me to behave please.
I am not expected to partake in your discussion but I am expected to keep order. I am also fully aware that the point of the thread is to discuss ideas and in a civil matter. On this last point you have failed miserably of late, as have others, regardless of any other content in your posts.
This is the last polite warning.
The funny thing about it is that I am not annoyed in the slightest, I know what I´m talking about, I know I have not disrespected anyone, and I know I have not been a hypocrite.
On the other hand,
This dude talks about IQ and... he is uncapable of communicating, he doesn't even knows how to read properly.
All his arguments are plain obvious and he makes it sound like he's enlightening you or something... the dude is a huge fan-boy who wants PESGaming to function like WENB; that is, if you don't agree with their fan-boy BS then you get banned.
@ Football777
GROW UP,
When people do not agree with you it does not means that they have shit IQ, it just means that they don't agree with your fan-boy BS,
As far as the 10 minute vs 20 minute debate goes -- you have no say in it, you cannot see past the 10 Minute Concept, you cannot see past PES5,
You should go to WENB if it annoys you so much that some people do not agree with your narrow-minded opinion; how anyone can take you seriously is beyond me,
And if anything,
If the only thing you know how to do is insult whilst at the same time boring us to death with your PES5 talk, please, keep yourself out of the 20 minute subject; no one is forcing you to read it,
clark_walker
09-06-2010, 18:20
I am not expected to partake in your discussion but I am expected to keep order. I am also fully aware that the point of the thread is to discuss ideas and in a civil matter. On this last point you have failed miserably of late, as have others, regardless of any other content in your posts.
This is the last polite warning.
say..... mod..if one gets another booking, tht means a RED right! what happens then? does one get banned for two days? two weeks?
hmmm...after reading these posts between Amateur and football777...i think i'll have to try out this 20 min thing. and see wat the fuss is all about!
Depends on the infraction. Try reading the site rules (especially the bit about double posting...)
Ultimate777
09-06-2010, 19:03
The funny thing about it is that I am not annoyed in the slightest, I know what I´m talking about, I know I have not disrespected anyone, and I know I have not been a hypocrite.
On the other hand,
This dude talks about IQ and... he is uncapable of communicating, he doesn't even knows how to read properly.
All his arguments are plain obvious and he makes it sound like he's enlightening you or something... the dude is a huge fan-boy who wants PESGaming to function like WENB; that is, if you don't agree with their fan-boy BS then you get banned.
@ Football777
GROW UP,
When people do not agree with you it does not means that they have shit IQ, it just means that they don't agree with your fan-boy BS,
As far as the 10 minute vs 20 minute debate goes -- you have no say in it, you cannot see past the 10 Minute Concept, you cannot see past PES5,
You should go to WENB if it annoys you so much that some people do not agree with your narrow-minded opinion; how anyone can take you seriously is beyond me,
And if anything,
If the only thing you know how to do is insult whilst at the same time boring us to death with your PES5 talk, please, keep yourself out of the 20 minute subject; no one is forcing you to read it,
Your grammar is appalling. There is spelling mistakes- its incapable not uncapable son . Its ''Know'' not ''knows''. Your nouns and commas are all over the place. First learn how to formulate and complete a paragraph properly and fix up your grammar before accussing others of not being able to communicate.
Btw where have I said that I want this forum to function like WENB? I was simply saying wind up merchants like yourself who are only restricted to using the word fanboy to put their point across usually get banned in other pes forum because they serve no use to constructive debate. Try pulling off your crap at evo-web or pesfan and see how far you get you annoying little twerp
Yet still again you've managed to side track and evade my questions in relation to the flaws I've pointed out, in how your concept would work in the actual game outside your head. Instead you have acted as if your some authority figure in charge of some deluded cult ruling me out of the subject. The difference between myself and you is I put my ideas in a coherent easy to read logical way. You just jump all over the place babbling fro and to about your concept, obsessing about wenb and adam and calling out fanboys with no substance to supporting how konami would actually implement your idea without screwing up the rest of the game.
As for your point regarding pes5, I've spoken to in depth regarding all the series going as far back to the early ISS series and have an opinion on all of those games up into 2010 and can remember correctly what aspects and features where in all of those games. Something you obviously couldnt get right yourself when you assumed L2strageties was only implemented in 2010.
And yes you are a hypocrite, and have disrepected others so your wrong again again son. Try harder. You've called me a c***, narrow minded, regressive and a fanboy. Those are all insults if you even comprehend what that is and you obviously have no idea what your talking about.
Your grammar is appalling. There is spelling mistakes- its incapable not uncapable son . Its ''Know'' not ''knows''. Your nouns and commas are all over the place. First learn how to formulate and complete a paragraph properly and fix up your grammar before accussing others of not being able to communicate.
Btw where have I said that I want this forum to function like WENB? I was simply saying wind up merchants like yourself who are only restricted to using the word fanboy to put their point across usually get banned in other pes forum because they serve no use to constructive debate. Try pulling off your crap at evo-web or pesfan and see how far you get you annoying little twerp
Yet still again you've managed to side track and evade my questions in relation to the flaws I've pointed out, in how your concept would work in the actual game outside your head. Instead you have acted as if your some authority figure in charge of some deluded cult ruling me out of the subject. The difference between myself and you is I put my ideas in a coherent easy to read logical way. You just jump all over the place babbling fro and to about your concept, obsessing about wenb and adam and calling out fanboys with no substance to supporting how konami would actually implement your idea without screwing up the rest of the game.
As for your point regarding pes5, I've spoken to in depth regarding all the series going as far back to the early ISS series and have an opinion on all of those games up into 2010 and can remember correctly what aspects and features where in all of those games. Something you obviously couldnt get right yourself when you assumed L2strageties was only implemented in 2010.
And yes you are a hypocrite, and have disrepected others so your wrong again again son. Try harder. You've called me a c***, narrow minded, regressive and a fanboy. Those are all insults if you even comprehend what that is and you obviously have no idea what your talking about.
My grammar may be appalling, but you can still understand what it means; try to write in SPANISH all the time, and then write in English -- you tell me if it's easy not to make grammar mistakes,
If you consider that an insult, I feel for you, you must have high blood-pressure,
Continue wasting your time and the time of others, I am done wasting my time with you; you are not worth it.
Ultimate777
09-06-2010, 21:25
Whatever amatuer, your name suits you well btw. Back out and save face before offering more proof of proving my point about your IQ. When you learn to put concepts forward while taking into account the pros and cons while having had the experience of working inside a games development team and working for a company in the real world outside your dim-litted basement where you spend too much time alone concocting up naive and unpractical ideas of what you think will make the game better. Without disregarding what effect it will have on the features already inside the game and balancing how it will effect marketing strategies for the production and its target audience, then come back and talk like a big man.
Ok, that's the end of that debate. Move on now, lads.
Cannon ball
09-06-2010, 22:13
Whatever amatuer, your name suits you well btw. Back out and save face before offering more proof of proving my point about your IQ. When you learn to put concepts forward while taking into account the pros and cons while having had the experience of working inside a games development team and working for a company in the real world outside your dim-litted basement where you spend too much time alone concocting up naive and unpractical ideas of what you think will make the game better. Without disregarding what effect it will have on the features already inside the game and balancing how it will effect marketing strategies for the production and its target audience, then come back and talk like a big man.
Well, that is quite a damning statement to say the least.
Whatever amatuer, your name suits you well btw. Back out and save face before offering more proof of proving my point about your IQ. When you learn to put concepts forward while taking into account the pros and cons while having had the experience of working inside a games development team and working for a company in the real world outside your dim-litted basement where you spend too much time alone concocting up naive and unpractical ideas of what you think will make the game better. Without disregarding what effect it will have on the features already inside the game and balancing how it will effect marketing strategies for the production and its target audience, then come back and talk like a big man.
This coming from a guy who thinks PES5 is the perfect game... a jackass who thinks he knows better than everyone? do you express yourself like an adult?
Judging someone who you don't know, insulting a person just because that person does not agree with your godforsaken OBVIOUS fan-boy views; fuck, you even mentioned the word "IQ" in a fucking PES Forum... how sad is that? who are you trying to impress?
You have a talent for writing a lot of words with absolutely no point, we know how you feel about PES5 -- everyone has played the game, everyone knows what you mean, stop lecturing people about something they have already experienced and already know.
"Back out and save face before offering more proof of proving my point about your IQ" -- what the fuck is wrong with you?
I did say that the game should offer three different game modes revolving around different gameplay concepts, therefore "marketing strategies for the production and its target audience" would be an IRRELEVANT issue,
That's all you talk about, about IRRELEVANT things that everyone in here already knows; but whatever, continue doing whatever it is you're doing,
I will probably see you here moaning about how PES5 is better than PES 2011, and how Konami should simply listen to you, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Why do you continue talking about me? what are you trying to prove? grow up man,
Ultimate777
10-06-2010, 01:30
Lol give up son, your losing the plot completely now while embarresing yourself and demonstrating your ignorance. I'm tired of bringing up points to expose your foolish concept only for you to evade them. Plus didnt you say you were done wasting time with me because I aint worth it? This after trying to debate with me after 4days straight until coming to the realisation that you cannot answer basic queries to how your theories will be put into practice. The mods are growing tired of your rubbish from the looks of it, hence the booking. So I suggest you cut out the swearing and fanboy diatribe, its incredibly boring and serves no point to the discussion.
Hell, even my emotionally and mentally challenged patients who I look after could come up with the same 20minute idea'' One would say while becoming excited after being introduced to thier first game on the computers ''hey I got a great idea, this game could be longer and much much more realistic like in real life, yeah thats it, thats how the game is sure to evolve because nothing else will. And we need ten eXtra gameplay modes and everyone in the world will love and buy this game'' And another impaired one would sheepishly agree, both sitting together nodding their heads in unison with the controllers shaking in their hands, all the while dribbling from their throats at the sheer amazement of their own deluded sense of genius of coming up with an idea. While behaving in a similar fashion, shooting their mouths off about fan boys not getting it when you simply tell them their time is up and they are wrong and need to have break outside and have their tea and biscuits . Even though its entirely expected and understandable coming from these unfortunate ones because they at least have an excuse, whats yours?
What I will lastly add, is offering 3 entirely different gameplay modes in compatible to the limits of the processing power of the ps3 and confines of the restrictions imposed on konamis current build and interface along with coincidening with other features of the game is not realistic. This is taking it account that konami work with one code, engine whatever you want it to call it, that has the players statistics on one the same core database that is inline with the gameplay. If in a million billion years they ever decided they needed to implement two different gameplay modes one 10mins, another 20 with different concepts relating to player individuality and team ai, then they would require two enterily seperate player databases to suit each individual mode of players to be inline with the playability of the two different game modes. Bal not so much as it is one player focused on screen which is created by the user, so it would not require a complete overhaul to the control of the ai manual function of teammates and gameplay mechanics.
It would therefore be too confusing because edit mode would then need to altered as there'll now require two seperate statistical database for editing the players. Also you wouldnt be able to make this kind of time setting mode switch during master league, because once the players stats are determinded for which mode you select your unlikely to be able to just switch as the stats wouldnt be aligned with the players you began ML with.
Your idea is that the 10min wont have the newly added addition of realistic features but will be in your words the standard ''ping pong'' ''super human stamnia'' with lack of player individuality that we have seen and are use to in the previous versions. So the gamers, i.e the current fan base who are use to the 10min mode will have to make the sacrifice and miss out on the benefits. In their minds it will be of no sense forking out $60 or £40 (whatever the price may be) if they only get the option of playing the new addition of the game if they select 20minute option which would no longer be pick up and play and time convient multiplayer use with mates or online. But a full on 40 minute time consuming game with the potential of increasing to 60mins if extra time is added on. All this for the simple advancement and I qoute '' a concept where the COM would ASK the user what to do, instead of telling the user what to do. A concept where the players on the pitch behave like human beings, with realistic player individuality, and with no obvious flaws to exploit.''
You propose this new radical change(not) while ignoring the fact that konami all by themselves miraclously without your einstein help, are already planning, and in the process of doing by giving the user more freedom in decision and control hence their slogan 'Total freedom''. btw before you twist things and start calling me fan boy, I'm not saying they will defintely get this right as I dont know until I played the demo. Im just going by their official plans which would contradict your theory that would not be possible to do this in a 10min concept. Konami plans for this years addition involve taking out assisted AI intervention during matches; while bringing more responsibliy to the users to anticipate opponents threats on goals, giving them the freedom to sense and react to threats where ai dont automatically close space and all run together towards the opponent like rapid dogs. They are working towards taking out the automated function of the ai lending you the hand to chase the ball and cut out spaces and do all the thinking for you. So as I see it that will be the key changing how you think and interpret the game on the pitch leading to more freedom of control and responsiblity, if they can do this successfully. Not increasing the game time as its not necessary.
Also your 20minute concept would rule out the younger aged audience, your forgetting children play these games to. In fact if you look on your cover, the age rating is the Minimum age is 3 years old. Now how would you expect an hyperactive child who wants a quick fun game that they can pick and up and play to a reasonable standard, to trawl through 40minutes worth game time? This is not mario, or an rpg where you can save in between gameplayand shutdown and return, This is straight through stuff and their attention span at that age would never see them through such a time frame. So thats why I brought up target audience because it IS revelant, except in your fantasy world of neverland where you simply think something up no matter how stupid and illogical and then its all of a sudden the greatest thing in the world.
Lol give up son, your losing the plot completely now while embarresing yourself and demonstrating your ignorance. I'm tired of bringing up points to expose your foolish concept only for you to evade them. Plus didnt you say you were done wasting time with me because I aint worth it? This after trying to debate with me after 4days straight until coming to the realisation that you cannot answer basic queries to how your theories will be put into practice. The mods are growing tired of your rubbish from the looks of it, hence the booking. So I suggest you cut out the swearing and fanboy diatribe, its incredibly boring and serves no point to the discussion.
Hell, even my emotionally and mentally challenged patients who I look after could come up with the same 20minute idea'' One would say while becoming excited after being introduced to thier first game on the computers ''hey I got a great idea, this game could be longer and much much more realistic like in real life, yeah thats it, thats how the game is sure to evolve because nothing else will'' And another impaired one would sheepishly agree, both sitting together nodding their heads in unison with the controllers shaking in their hands, all the while dribbling from their throats at sheer amazement of their own deluded sense of genius and behave in a similar fashion shooting their mouths off about fan boys not getting it when you simply tell them their time is up and they are wrong. Even though its entirely expected and understandable coming from them because they at least have an excuse, whats yours?
What I will lastly add, is offering 3 entirely different gameplay modes in compatible to the limits of the processing power of the ps3 and confines of the restrictions imposed on konamis current build and interface along with coincidening with other features of the game is not realistic. This is taking it account that konami work with one code, engine whatever you want it to call it, that has the players statistics on one the same core database that is inline with the gameplay. If in a million billion years they ever decided they needed to implement two different gameplay modes one 10mins, another 20 with different concepts relating to player individuality and team ai, then they would require two enterily seperate player databases to suit each individual mode of players to be inline with the playability of the two different game modes. Bal not so much as it is one player focused on screen which is created by the user, so it would not require a complete overhaul to the control of the ai manual function of teammates and gameplay mechanics.
It would therefore be too confusing because edit mode would then need to altered as there'll now require two seperate statistical database for editing the players. Also you wouldnt be able to make this kind of time setting mode switch during master league, because once the players stats are determinded for which mode you select your unlikely to be able to just switch as the stats wouldnt be aligned with the players you began ML with.
Your idea is that the 10min wont have the newly added addition of realistic features but will be in your words the standard ''ping pong'' ''super human stamnia'' with lack of player individuality that we have seen and are use to in the previous versions. So the gamers, i.e the current fan base who are use to the 10min mode will have to make the sacrifice and miss out on the benefits. In their minds it will be of no sense forking out $60 or £40 (whatever the price may be) if they only get the option of playing the new addition of the game if they select 20minute option which would no longer be pick up and play and time convient multiplayer use with mates or online. But a full on 40 minute time consuming game with the potential of increasing to 60mins if extra time is added on. All this for the simple advancement and I qoute '' a concept where the COM would ASK the user what to do, instead of telling the user what to do. A concept where the players on the pitch behave like human beings, with realistic player individuality, and with no obvious flaws to exploit.''
You propose this new radical change(not) while ignoring the fact that konami all by themselves miraclously without your einstein help, are already planning, and in the process of doing by giving the user more freedom in decision and control hence their slogan 'Total freedom''. btw before you twist things and start calling me fan boy, I'm not saying they will defintely get this right as I dont know until I played the demo. Im just going by their official plans which would contradict your theory that would not be possible to do this in a 10min concept. Konami plans for this years addition involve taking out assisted AI intervention during matches; while bringing more responsibliy to the users to anticipate opponents threats on goals, giving them the freedom to sense and react to threats where ai dont automatically close space and all run together towards the opponent like rapid dogs. They are working towards taking out the automated function of the ai lending you the hand to chase the ball and cut out spaces and do all the thinking for you. So as I see it that will be the key changing how you think and interpret the game on the pitch leading to more freedom of control and responsiblity, if they can do this successfully. Not increasing the game time as its not necessary.
Also your 20minute concept would rule out the younger aged audience, your forgetting children play these games to. In fact if you look on your cover, the age rating is the Minimum age is 3 years old. Now how would you expect an hyperactive child who wants a quick fun game that they can pick and up and play to a reasonable standard, to trawl through 40minutes worth game time? This is not mario, or an rpg where you can save in between gameplayand shutdown and return, This is straight through stuff and their attention span at that age would never see them through such a time frame. So thats why I brought up target audience because it IS revelant, except in your fantasy world of neverland where you simply think something up no matter how stupid and illogical and then its all of a sudden the greatest thing in the world.
Dude, you should really learn how to argue, arguing with you is like arguing with a kid who doesn't knows how to use logic nor how to read properly,
You want me to say that you are right and that I am talking non-sense, and I don't see the point of that, I really don't; I never said that your points are not valid,
What I do find very immature and pointless is that, for some reason, you started responding to me with a very aggressive and childish and offensive attitude; and the worst part is that you don't even understand the 20 Minute Concept... something that you have made as clear as daylight with each and every post that you have directed at me,
And because you don't understand it, you think that I must be wrong; that's just stupid in my opinion, and only shows how narrow-minded you are.
Do you see me going to WENB or other threads telling people that they are wrong and that their opinion is "moronic"? telling them about grammar mistakes?
You are offended when people call you a fan-boy and yet, you deserve to be called a fan-boy because you clearly are one,
Like I said,
You put three different game modes for different people, appealing to a wider audience = more money,
-------------------------------------
* 10 Minute Mode
* 20 Minute Mode
* BAL Mode
--------------------------------------
You already know that, and yet, for some reason you still come up with a weak argument about,
----------------------------------------
"In fact if you look on your cover, the age rating is the Minimum age is 3 years old. Now how would you expect an hyperactive child who wants a quick fun game that they can pick and up and play to a reasonable standard, to trawl through 40minutes worth game time?"
----------------------------------------
1st -- the game would be 20 minutes long, not 40 minutes long,
2nd -- what age are you? do you want to continue playing that type of video game?
3rd -- why do you continue repeating the same rubbish when Konami could simply split the game into three different modes?
As for contributions,
What type of contribution are you giving, telling people who don't agree with your opinion that they are wrong; dressing up your opinion as a fact -- what is up with that?
Why do you act like you are above certain people, calling them "moronic" and insulting them as if it actually served a purpose?
-----------------------------------------------
"Plus didnt you say you were done wasting time with me because I aint worth it? This after trying to debate with me after 4days straight until coming to the realisation that you cannot answer basic queries to how your theories will be put into practice."
------------------------------------------------
My theories are unimportant, my theories are clearly incomplete; my only intention was to briefly discuss about certain things that could be possible if the game was longer.
By the way, you never questioned any of my theories, you don't even understand the most basic and obvious part of my so-called "theories" -- you don't even know how to argue or debate properly,
Konami has 200 minds working on PES, I don't need to tell them how to do it step by step, I just show them a small idea of what I expect of them in the future; they look at it and they think about it.
Instead of arguing like someone who has no clue of what he's talking about, why don't you make yourself more productive and talk about whatever it is you want to see in the game?
This is not even a debate, you have failed to raise any point that could potentially tackle my argument, this has been you INTERRUPTING in a conversation that does not concerns you, and pretty much repeating the same rubbish -- no one is forcing you to read my posts,
If you cannot tolerate different opinions, WENB is the place for you; this is well and truly the last post I will waste on you.
As for MODS,
They can ban me for all I care, as far as I'm concerned I have only responded to comments directed at me... as far as I'm concerned, you have been far more offensive towards myself and other people.
This is pathetic....
A wise man once said.
"Never argue with fools, because people on the outside will never be able to tell which one is which".
GuNNerZae
10-06-2010, 06:20
This is pathetic....
A wise man once said.
"Never argue with fools, because people on the outside will never be able to tell which one is which".
Agreed... It is quite pathetic and that proverb that you've picked up on is spot on and i must say nice find, albeit, from my perspective and do i dare say from an average Joe's point of view, Football 777 appears the more foolish because of his extremely childish antics and the way he evades Amateurs valid arguements with pety and offensive comments.
Amateur's 20 minute concept is one to consider and this guy is resorting to pathetic insults to put him down and it is really childish. It's clear that Football 777 is the more impatient and foolish of the two... for god sake grow up and keep it civil, because in doing so we can continue with constructive discussion and inevitably we achieve a better PES 2011.
You two are just repeating everything you have said in prior post. Not only that, but you're letting it get too personal now. Amateur, you said you was done and after that, I told both of you to stop the discussion now, but you both couldn't help it, could you?
Carry on and you'll both be sent off.
Ultimate777
10-06-2010, 08:12
Agreed... It is quite pathetic and that proverb that you've picked up on is spot on and i must say nice find, albeit, from my perspective and do i dare say from an average Joe's point of view, Football 777 appears the more foolish because of his extremely childish antics and the way he evades Amateurs valid arguements with pety and offensive comments.
Amateur's 20 minute concept is one to consider and this guy is resorting to pathetic insults to put him down and it is really childish. It's clear that Football 777 is the more impatient and foolish of the two... for god sake grow up and keep it civil, because in doing so we can continue with constructive discussion and inevitably we achieve a better PES 2011.
Ok gunnerzae please show me the arguments I've failed to answer in return to amatuers? If you look past the last two pages where I've had to defend myself against mods and members alike making false accusations, you'll see I've gone to great lengths at responding to every single line in his posts and theories prooving that they wont work in reality. So dont get it twisted, amatuer has gone to great lengths at actually avoiding key questions and resorting to name calling, which I dont have a problem with so long as he manages to answer my points. Why do you think he has been booked if he hasnt been offensive and childish swearing all over place because he is unable to answer basic questions?
Also take note a fool is one who jumps to conclusions and makes false assumptions and wrong judement without first assessing and analysing the approviate evidence where its impossble to give a balanced view without weighing both sides of the argument. Its a path your slowly tredding down if you cannot provide the evidence where I've ignored arguments and if you fail to answer my questions below.
Maybe you might be able to help answer some of my questions since you also believe that the concept is one to consider.
1. How will konami needing to implement two different statistical player database to coincide and make the difference for a 10min vs 20min do this without making things confusing in edit mode?
2. How will multiplayer mode work if you have friends round and then they have to wait out 40-60minute in between games in order to play the new realistic version of the game?
3. How will master league work when there is over 36 games not including tornaments,cups which have extra time, forcing you to play at 40minutes? That will be a long season to take to complete dont you think? Also you would not be able to change the time settings during the ML mode because the 10 mode and 20 min mode require two seperate statistical databases?
4. How will casual gamers be satisfied who are use to playing 10min in online, ML mode if they dont get the same benefits included from playing 20min sim? But will be reduced to playing ping-pong football with no individuality with obvious flaws? Do you think the fan base would be satifsied with being cut short on their options?
5. How will edit mode work when what will be required is two seperate player databases? One for stats that are inline with 10minute acrcade super human stamina no indivualilty mode that he proposes? and another for 20 minute which offers freedom of player movement and inviduslity?
Those are my questions which I've tried to get answered. I'd appreciate you can answer them as they are far from foolish. If you went into an office game development conference in the real word, you would need to present your ideas explaining the pro and cons and how possible it will fit into the game. You'll then be challenged to go further in depth explaining the technicalitieson how it would successfully be implemented into the game without interfering with other aspects. I'm afraid you wouldnt have the luxery of hiding in a basement sitting behind a computer screen telling the audience that they simply dont understand once you've run out of ideas.
I now have an infraction because I responded to the wind up trying to make these points because he doesnt know when to stop.
This is pathetic....
A wise man once said.
"Never argue with fools, because people on the outside will never be able to tell which one is which".
Okrass you are not philosopher so stop the uneducated pretencious tripe where no wise man has ever said anything of the sort because it doesnt make sense and is clearly made up by yourself. Or maybe a drunken hombo may have muttered to himself while you were passing where you may have picked it from, but never a wise man. There is no author quoting anything of this rubbish so it wasnt a nice find, it was plucked out of thin air. Now thats pathetic.
The correct apt proverb is from Plato which fits persons like yourself who cant really form their own opinion and offer much or provide diverse views to add towards the debate at hand and instead, speak for the sake speaking
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.” ~Plato
Here is another to one to educate yourself with
... A fool may talk, but a wise man speaks. ~Ben Jonson ... Don't speak unless you can improve on the silence. ~Spanish Proverb ...
Get it? Now dont speak unless you can either come up with something constructive that adds to debate, or just keep silent.
Furthermore if you want a debate, damn well debate, dont sit there rubbishing bits you dont like without offering anything to the table yourself. This also applies to you Gunnerzee
As you dont seem to have opinions. You just sit there bitching about things you dont agree with, without offering one iota of an opinion yourself.
Ultimate777
10-06-2010, 08:14
Mods- Apologise for falling for the bait even though I did ask him to stop, I will refrain from further discussion from now on with amateur. I should have just walked away after he went into a swearing tirade but felt he had to be put into place. Even though I feel the infraction given to me is harsh considering I have not used abusive or foul language throughout this thread like some thers have while trying to accuse me of doing the same, I accept the decision.
shankly is god
10-06-2010, 20:20
this is silly! cant we all just get along!
its only a game!
Ultimate777
11-06-2010, 19:45
Thank you for that insightful, deep and meaningful comment that makes this thread so much more interesting. Well done.
shankly is god
11-06-2010, 23:25
Thank you for that insightful, deep and meaningful comment that makes this thread so much more interesting. Well done.
Are you tech in disguise?
Are you tech in disguise?
He's correct though. There is no need for comments like that. A straight booking will follow any post that is not on topic from here on.
Bored as I am right now, I'll say what ive said for the last two years concerning the game we once loved; look at what the developers of American sports' games do when creating a game that focuses on individual characters. Ive played nearly every next-gen basketball game since 08' and the last two Madden games and their focus on the player individuality and team play improves every year. Even EA Sports' Fifa has to look at their games despite them taking over from PES as the best football game around. You cant distinguish a player other than their ability and their name, you can make another player from the lower ranks of Brazil play like Kaka, its that easy. In the games I have aforementioned, you cant create a player simply by cloning their attributes. Lets take NBA Superstar Kobe Bryant for example (I might be explaining a little bit out of my depth here with this), there is no other player in the world like him, the way he shoots, the way he moves and his general mindset in playing the game, I can copy and paste his attributes but I can never recreate the way he plays and his tendencies. Also, you cant clone the way he performs when the game is on the line.
My bloody long point is, I think if there was time to be put in on how players actually played football, then the game would improve, rather than just assigning stats to players because thats how they portray themselves in real-life. No, I think they need to study the way every player moves, kicks, thinks in a game. I dont think it would be that hard anyway, just get avid football fans in one room for a day and have them debate how a player plays. How Messi likes to cut in on his left foot, Xavi dictates the game strictly from the midfield or how Rooney would strive to help out his team mates in all aspects of the game.
If thats too much, then at least implement a better focus on team strategy. Far too many people who play football games dont focus enough on the tactical side of the game, some find it boring and would rather just play the game because they have the players to just run and score. Fair enough, but even then where the tactics are already set out for them, some are inaccurate and this the case with most of the lesser teams. We should be able to control much more than just the way we attack and defend.
Bored as I am right now, I'll say what ive said for the last two years concerning the game we once loved; look at what the developers of American sports' games do when creating a game that focuses on individual characters. Ive played nearly every next-gen basketball game since 08' and the last two Madden games and their focus on the player individuality and team play improves every year. Even EA Sports' Fifa has to look at their games despite them taking over from PES as the best football game around. You cant distinguish a player other than their ability and their name, you can make another player from the lower ranks of Brazil play like Kaka, its that easy. In the games I have aforementioned, you cant create a player simply by cloning their attributes. Lets take NBA Superstar Kobe Bryant for example (I might be explaining a little bit out of my depth here with this), there is no other player in the world like him, the way he shoots, the way he moves and his general mindset in playing the game, I can copy and paste his attributes but I can never recreate the way he plays and his tendencies. Also, you cant clone the way he performs when the game is on the line.
My bloody long point is, I think if there was time to be put in on how players actually played football, then the game would improve, rather than just assigning stats to players because thats how they portray themselves in real-life. No, I think they need to study the way every player moves, kicks, thinks in a game. I dont think it would be that hard anyway, just get avid football fans in one room for a day and have them debate how a player plays. How Messi likes to cut in on his left foot, Xavi dictates the game strictly from the midfield or how Rooney would strive to help out his team mates in all aspects of the game.
If thats too much, then at least implement a better focus on team strategy. Far too many people who play football games dont focus enough on the tactical side of the game, some find it boring and would rather just play the game because they have the players to just run and score. Fair enough, but even then where the tactics are already set out for them, some are inaccurate and this the case with most of the lesser teams. We should be able to control much more than just the way we attack and defend.
agree, and that's what i thought FIFA was going for this year with the "personality +" introduction but after seeing the examples i guess they will just be adding stats to the players this year.
which still is a great thing for FIFA so don't get me wrong but that doesn't say anything yet about a players personality just his abilities.
to get the difference from players with almost the same abilities the addition of a personality is a must and would be unbelievable if pulled off correctly.
Bored as I am right now, I'll say what ive said for the last two years concerning the game we once loved; look at what the developers of American sports' games do when creating a game that focuses on individual characters. Ive played nearly every next-gen basketball game since 08' and the last two Madden games and their focus on the player individuality and team play improves every year. Even EA Sports' Fifa has to look at their games despite them taking over from PES as the best football game around. You cant distinguish a player other than their ability and their name, you can make another player from the lower ranks of Brazil play like Kaka, its that easy. In the games I have aforementioned, you cant create a player simply by cloning their attributes. Lets take NBA Superstar Kobe Bryant for example (I might be explaining a little bit out of my depth here with this), there is no other player in the world like him, the way he shoots, the way he moves and his general mindset in playing the game, I can copy and paste his attributes but I can never recreate the way he plays and his tendencies. Also, you cant clone the way he performs when the game is on the line.
My bloody long point is, I think if there was time to be put in on how players actually played football, then the game would improve, rather than just assigning stats to players because thats how they portray themselves in real-life. No, I think they need to study the way every player moves, kicks, thinks in a game. I dont think it would be that hard anyway, just get avid football fans in one room for a day and have them debate how a player plays. How Messi likes to cut in on his left foot, Xavi dictates the game strictly from the midfield or how Rooney would strive to help out his team mates in all aspects of the game.
If thats too much, then at least implement a better focus on team strategy. Far too many people who play football games dont focus enough on the tactical side of the game, some find it boring and would rather just play the game because they have the players to just run and score. Fair enough, but even then where the tactics are already set out for them, some are inaccurate and this the case with most of the lesser teams. We should be able to control much more than just the way we attack and defend.
I have been saying that for a while now,
The problem is, we all know just how much Leo Messi and CR9 stand out in PES... their physical and technical qualities are easy to note.
On the other hand, players like Xavi Hernandez, what he does in real-life, you cannot implement that into a 10 minute game -- because he is a THINKER and you cannot THINK in a 10 minute game,
That's the key problem with the 10 Minute Concept, it turns an unpredictable tactical game into a monotonous goal-scoring fest.
So what Konami does is simple, whenever a player like Xavi has the ball at his feet, the team will automatically position themselves better. The -- automatic -- feel of the game is what makes it boring, it's just out of date.
It's like the game tells you what to do and you just follow the instructions; a realistic football simulation should give the user the initiative of thinking -- the COM should ask the user what to do,
So what Konami can do: take a long look at how human beings move on a football pitch, take a long look at how they react to the position of the ball, look at the gameplay mechanics of real-life football and implement only the indispensable parts of it.
Once the players on the pitch move and react realistically, it will be impossible to play 10 minute games...
And once that happens, you can implement new stats for playmakers like Xavi Hernandez and Andrea Pirlo -- both are good at creating opportunities and dictating play -- the question is, how different are they? in real-life they have different ideas on how to dictate play, this should be implemented into video games like PES,
Some people will say that this would take the "fun" pick-up and play factor out of the game, etc, etc; the truth is that both PES and FIFA are in need of a new game mode -- a game mode that focuses on audiences that no longer enjoy repetitive 10 minute games,
That's my disappointment with both FIFA and PES, the lack of innovation, the lack of initiative,
^Well that makes sense.:) Also in a 10 min game you can't mimic reality as you said.
Anyway I still think that the 10 min concept can become better than it is now. However as you said, there should be a 20 min sim with all of reality and thinking put into practice.
byrnie05
13-06-2010, 16:40
You are already saying NO to something that you currently don't understand, something that you have never seen before; that's just narrow-minded and regressive in my opinion.
I understood the concept you were putting forward, anyone who has watched a 90-minute match knows what you are asking for. A game whereby you have the ball in midfield a lot, or being passed around the back four for 30-seconds whilst someone decides what to do. Players scrabbling on the floor, trying to hook out a ball from under their feet. People trying to shoot and having it rebound off the player. Games whereby you might only engineer one shot in the whole game.
The 10-minute concept emphasises the be be-all-and-end-all of football, essentially the goal scoring. Goal scoring takes up around five minutes perhaps of an average game. Chances maybe 10 minutes? The rest of the time is midfield drudgery or the ball going out for throw-ins or players being talked to by the ref. With the 20-minute concept, it would seem to me you'd want to bring the duller aspects of a football match to the gaming experience, whereas the 10-minute concept does its best to distill what makes people love the game so much.
muzza798
13-06-2010, 20:02
Everyone is going into way too much detail and going OTT over small point. Just go outside, enjoy the sun and try something new. Its just a game
muzza798
13-06-2010, 20:13
Everyone is going into way too much detail and going OTT over small points. Just go outside, enjoy the sun and try something new. Its just a game
I understood the concept you were putting forward, anyone who has watched a 90-minute match knows what you are asking for. A game whereby you have the ball in midfield a lot, or being passed around the back four for 30-seconds whilst someone decides what to do. Players scrabbling on the floor, trying to hook out a ball from under their feet. People trying to shoot and having it rebound off the player. Games whereby you might only engineer one shot in the whole game.
The 10-minute concept emphasises the be be-all-and-end-all of football, essentially the goal scoring. Goal scoring takes up around five minutes perhaps of an average game. Chances maybe 10 minutes? The rest of the time is midfield drudgery or the ball going out for throw-ins or players being talked to by the ref. With the 20-minute concept, it would seem to me you'd want to bring the duller aspects of a football match to the gaming experience, whereas the 10-minute concept does its best to distill what makes people love the game so much.
With the 20 Minute Concept, there's a lot of things that could be implemented into the game, be it the "duller aspects of football" as you mentioned -- or -- what is in my opinion, the essential aspects of football.
At the moment, with 10 Minute Simulations, a huge problem for me is that the game is boring when you don't have possession of the ball.
And also, because the game is 10 minutes long, the game revolves around a formulated script that reads "each team must have (x) amounts of chances before the game ends" -- this is a huge problem...
A small team like Birmingham playing wonderful possession football -- why? -- because the script decided that it was their turn to have possession of the ball, and if they continue stroking the ball from side to side -- you will never gain possession of the ball... which means that the COM will decide when it is your turn to have possession, thus a miss-timed pass or miss-placed pass will happen so that you can have possession of the ball.
And if miss-timed or miss-placed passes do not work, and you still have possession of the ball; the COM will simply dictate a change in momentum, which means that your team's off-the-ball movement will be shit, your team-mates will position themselves in all the wrong positions -- thus making it easier for you to loose possession of the ball,
I mean, is possession football even a possibility in a 10 minute game?
Another big problem with 10 Minute Sims, is the generic player individuality... you cannot have true-to-life player individuality in a 10 minute game; which is why physical attributes stand out so much, but the tactical aspect of the game is almost entirely automatic.
If the game was 10 minutes longer, we would have enough space for true-to-life player individuality, enough space for the game to have some solid substance at its core -- so that easy goals are impossible, so that possession football is possible, etc, etc.
The 20 Minute Concept should focus on possession football and counter attacking football,
Counter attacking football is pretty straight-forward and does not requires much thinking attacking-wise, you don't have time to think in a counter attack; however, counter attacking football requires thinking defensive-wise,
The problem with 10 Minute Sims is that:
1st -- possession football is mostly or entirely an illusion, and is not really possible or relevant,
2nd -- defending requires almost no thinking, you just run after the player with the ball and you can always move in accordance to what you can see from your wide view perspective, etc, etc,
3rd -- lack of player individuality, Chelsea dominating possession against a team like Barcelona; things that never happen in real-life football,
So the point of the 20 Minute Concept:
1st -- realistic and detailed player individuality; no longer will Chelsea dominate possession against a team like Barcelona... you will need to play to your strengths,
2nd -- possession football would actually be possible and useful; no longer an illusion,
3rd -- counter attacking football will be fun to play, because the defensive side of the game will be as fun as attacking,
4th -- a concept where the COM would ask the user what to do instead of telling the user what to do, where the user has "total control" -- thus never feeling like he "cannot do anything to stop or prevent that from happening"
--------------------------------------------
10 Minute Sims are outdated and overlook the fun parts of football, football can be very entertaining and fun even without the goals; on the other hand, try playing PES 2010 or FIFA10 without scoring goals...
The point of the 20 Minute Concept is simple, give the user the option,
---------------------------------------------
* 10 Minute Mode,
* 20 Minute Mode,
* BAL Mode,
---------------------------------------------
If you want to play a game without flaws, a game that can be taken seriously and played competitively, you can play the 20 Minute Mode; if you want to play short and repetitive games, full of flaws and easy goals, you can play the 10 Minute Mode,
It's simply about making the game appealing to a wider audience, the word "fun" means different things to different people,
In my opinion, the 10 Minute Concept takes a lot of "fun" out of the game,
Comparison Vids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf1kr-NqenQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv8di7zo9n8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-1lzHik9wQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRfDwgucRPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9gfZFgOdxY
Credit to Martyl2 on WENB. :D
shankly is god
26-06-2010, 13:27
^^ thanks alolo some good stuff there!
Pantilimon
26-06-2010, 17:17
Yea now I know for sure KONAMI was lying AGAIN.Same robotic animations,same keepers...same shit.Good work KONAMI if I were you I would stop making football games,you have failed every year since PES 5 and nothing will stop you from doing this again and again.
Yea now I know for sure KONAMI was lying AGAIN.Same robotic animations,same keepers...same shit.Good work KONAMI if I were you I would stop making football games,you have failed every year since PES 5 and nothing will stop you from doing this again and again.
:rolleyes:
shankly is god
26-06-2010, 19:50
Yea now I know for sure KONAMI was lying AGAIN.Same robotic animations,same keepers...same shit.Good work KONAMI if I were you I would stop making football games,you have failed every year since PES 5 and nothing will stop you from doing this again and again.
who are you?
Pantilimon
26-06-2010, 20:26
who are you?
I'm an angry gamer.:shocking:
^WELL, it's clear that you didn't fully review it. It wasn't about animations or goalkeeping. It was about defence, jostling and the new feint system and more movements + power passing and more freedom.
I am not saying these will work or these will not work. I am saying what was in the video. Animations and goalkeeping weren't involved.
Well, talking about animations. See the E3 trailer (which btw is gameplay footage) and then say the animations are the same. Because they're not. I have to see more though but the change in animations is definitely there. But I still have to see more before I actually judge. But to say it's still robotic from a footage taken from a camera and not seeing the proper trailer with gameplay footage is not very fair.
So it's better if we wait UNTIL A PROPER GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE IS RELEASED. Oh and it has to be of reasonable quality and frame rate.
shankly is god
28-06-2010, 00:02
I'm an angry gamer.:shocking:
I understand you pain but at the same time i cant agree with you! pes 2010 was enjoyable and i still play it with mates regularly!!
and coming out with this remark when pes 2011 is only just in the media is frankly ludicrous
bennismalls
28-06-2010, 03:43
The animations seem good to me, not perfect but.... Are we maybe expecting to much?
nope...
bennismalls
28-06-2010, 04:09
Are there really people who really dont see anything wrong with the running animations?
^In pes 08, 09 and 10 yes. They were totally wrong and annoying. But why are we judging pes 11 now when there isn't even a single gameplay of reasonable quality released?
From the E3 trailer it looked much smoother and weight seems to be added. But again, it's not something I can say for sure. So I think it's best if we reserve out judgements until a proper gameplay video is released.
Pantilimon
28-06-2010, 08:38
I understand you pain but at the same time i cant agree with you! pes 2010 was enjoyable and i still play it with mates regularly!!
and coming out with this remark when pes 2011 is only just in the media is frankly ludicrous
Good for you,but I hate PES 2010.Stupid goalkeepers and so much bugs made me hate it.Maybe I would have accepted poor animations,but these two things I mentioned before are unacceptable.
byrnie05
28-06-2010, 16:46
Stupid goalies that actually seem quite realistic thanks to some of the stupid fumbles witnessed in the last 18 months.
bennismalls
28-06-2010, 19:32
^In pes 08, 09 and 10 yes. They were totally wrong and annoying. But why are we judging pes 11 now when there isn't even a single gameplay of reasonable quality released?
From the E3 trailer it looked much smoother and weight seems to be added. But again, it's not something I can say for sure. So I think it's best if we reserve out judgements until a proper gameplay video is released.
This is something we can both agree on. We still have more to see before completely judging.
But for me, its frustrating. Its a big issue for me, and its something I'd be quick to jump on, prematurely or not. I definitely have seen some video's with gameplay, but not 100% great quality. It still doesnt look like a huge improvement though.
^Animations are a big part for me aswell. But still we have to wait for a proper gameplay video because the ones we have so far are way too early and they weren't to show animations. So it's better if we just wait for some proper gameplay video.:)
NextBigThing
29-06-2010, 10:14
I hope it'll be good. The psp version is always so left out :/
I know animations are a very big deal for everyone, however, I don't think animations are such a big deal. For example, FIFA10, good animations, fluid feel, shit game.
The animations need to improve, that's obvious; but, the real problem here is the fact the we never dribble with the ball when we play PES10 or FIFA10, we simply run with the ball... we simply control the direction in which we run with the ball.
However, we never actually control the direction in which we dribble with the ball because dribbling with the ball is impossible in both PES10 and FIFA10.
And because dribbling is non-existent, this means that the physical aspect of the game is also non-existent, because the game skips the part where you actually dribble with the ball and engage in physical battles with the defender.
And again, because dribbling is non-existent, this means that man-marking is also non-existent. So because Leo Messi is fast and very agile, this means that he will be a better defender than Carles Puyol... because it's about running after the ball carrier, it's not about man-marking the ball carrier.
This also means that physical attributes such as acceleration and top speed, will be hugely overrated. You can have the best animations in the world and it will not hide the FACT that dribbling and man-marking are not viable nor realistic options when playing these football sims.
In my opinion, the actual dribbling concept is a lot more important and relevant than the aesthetics or animations of the game. We need to have a difference between running with the ball and dribbling with the ball... To date, the game is all about running, it's not about playing football, it's all about the direction in which the player runs with the ball.
This is why as a matter of fact, PES and FIFA, regardless of their positives and negatives -- are both equally easy and outdated... it's about running, it's not about playing football.
This is the ''one-on-one'' element of real-life football that we have never seen in any football sim: dribbling and man-marking need to be implemented into the game...
Otherwise, it will always be the same old ''pin-ball'' game. The animations and feel of the game will not fix the ''pin-ball'' flaw.
We have seen some new animations shown, like the new josling and the way the defender moves but when proper gameplay vids come out we will know what were getting.
byrnie05
30-06-2010, 22:53
Hmm, in reply to Amateur's post, I see where he's going with that idea.
Pressing L2/LT and using the left analogue could bring about a new close control view, whereby the camera cuts to just behind the player, so you could simulate one-on-ones and then R2/RT with the right analogue could add in skill moves for extra chance to beat your man. Not only would it make the game better, it would also make it seem more like a broadcast.
Guys!! News Tomorrow at 8am UK Time. Just look over at PESFan.com :D
Adam is hinting like hell over at WENB.
So, how long do you think a trailer should be?
I'm thinking 6mins should just about do it... = 6 Min Trailer Tomorrow.
You know, I was thinking, if Seabass saw Messi with longer hair as he has from the WC, how would he look in PES 2011?
Hmmmm.
= New Look On Messi Or Something Else.
Adam is also hinting about Stadium Editor.
ARE YOU SERIOUS! no way, there is no way there is a stadium editor! lol
holy shit
-----------------------------------------------------
Adam: >>>insert whistling smiley here<<<
:D
^^^ If there is a stadium editor/creatore I'll personally shit my pants
^^^ If there is a stadium editor/creatore I'll personally shit my pants
Now it's comfirmed. :)
www.pesfan.com
Now it's comfirmed. :)
www.pesfan.com
would be interesting to see how they implement it, and how many different stadiums you can create, if there is a slot limit etc.
Die Hard Pes Fan
13-07-2010, 11:47
^^^ If there is a stadium editor/creatore I'll personally shit my pants
Did you shit your pants lol :ninja:
Did you shit your pants lol :ninja:
i was wondering the same thing:rolleyes:
Did you shit your pants lol :ninja:
LOL
Sup Mate, What did you think of the trailer?
I must say i really liked that Özil part. Excellent ball control. :D
Die Hard Pes Fan
13-07-2010, 12:45
LOL
Sup Mate, What did you think of the trailer?
I must say i really liked that Özil part. Excellent ball control. :D
Alright mate :)
Thought the trailer looked good, the özil part looked sweet. And I loved the way Ronaldo done the four skills in a combo, and the flick in the air looked awesome. What did you think?? I hope for a good game like, I still play 2010 (as you see lol) so anything even slightly better would be great imo. I also liked the manager saying the tactics in the changing room, looked more like it and the stadium editior of course. What about you?? Roll on ?October?
Ultimate777
13-07-2010, 13:13
Wow the new trailer looks brilliant. The game machanics looks completely re-werked. Konami look like they've finally paid attention this time round and worked on the movement and positioning of players. The tactics look like they actually will make a difference, especially when they showed the ''all out attack'' feature. The players look like they have life to them individually when they move.
Loving the new lift ball fient looks class. Very promising. I hope the bring back all the good little features they took out in the last series and we'll have a very good game on our hands that will hopefully help us forget last years tosh.
Alright mate :)
Thought the trailer looked good, the özil part looked sweet. And I loved the way Ronaldo done the four skills in a combo, and the flick in the air looked awesome. What did you think?? I hope for a good game like, I still play 2010 (as you see lol) so anything even slightly better would be great imo. I also liked the manager saying the tactics in the changing room, looked more like it and the stadium editior of course. What about you?? Roll on ?October?
I must agree on the Ronaldo part. It looked amazing, Its good that you can link feints now. For me it looks like a huge improvment from 2010 and i think i'm buying PES this year. Fifa will probably be better then PES but PES will be probably more fun and exciting. The only thing that looked weird in that vid was the ball physics, but i can live with that. The stadium editor pic looked :unsure: but i have to wait with that. Liked the manager pic too and hoping for more BAL news soon because that was the mode a played the most on PES 2009.
When we both get PES, i'm expecting a match from you. lol
I'm pretty much sold on PES this year...as mentioned above FIFA may have the better game at the end of the year...but I've learned my lesson with Fifa....I have never bought a FIFA game and played it longer than a month and a half maybe...I always get bored.
With PES it's different, for some reason you just can't get enough
I think it looks very promising. I just jope that the defending is good enough like it was on pes 5. But overall, it seems to be on another level compared to 2010. FINALLY.:)
I'm pretty much sold on PES this year...as mentioned above FIFA may have the better game at the end of the year...but I've learned my lesson with Fifa....I have never bought a FIFA game and played it longer than a month and a half maybe...I always get bored.
With PES it's different, for some reason you just can't get enough
Completely agree. I haven't played fifa for a long time. And when i played it, it was only for online to get that "Win 100 online matches" achievment which is impossible when everyone quits. :rolleyes:
Anyway, A.I is one of the thing that destroys FIFA. Especially when the cpu takes the ball from you, doesn't matter if they touch the ball or not. my player will always fall when he really should not. In PES (Atleast the old ones) you were sometimes lucky to take the ball with you even when being tackled, if you know what i mean. Those little things.
I bought the last 2 Fifa games, 3 if you count the World Cup game as well. Last year I didn't buy PES10 as I was fed up with empty promises and none of the gameplay videos impressed me at all...
Looking back, I didn't play any of the 3 Fifa games after a month...once you've learnt how to score a goal you can repeatedly do exactly that and score 10 against the highest difficulty.
At first I had problems with Fifa WC on the highest difficulty...but after 2 weeks I won 8-0 against England in the semi-final with Netherlands...
The gameplay just gets too tedious in Fifa, I really do enjoy PES's gameplay far more over the long run and just the ML mode makes the game worthwile for me, even if the gameplay is not perfect!
This year PES really really looks promising to say the least! I'm really impressed! The graphics is top notch, and the gameplay looks like a major improvement so far! Credit must be given to Konami for the Stadium editor/creator, they seem to be listening to us more everyday!
PES won't be perfect, as it seems penalties will still be from the side-on view this year again etc. etc. But I'm pretty sure Fifa will feel exactly the same as the previous 2 years, and thus for me personally it will feel like work playing a game of football, while PES will be fun and will last me hours and hours!
thenotsogood
13-07-2010, 18:50
I think I'll definately be buying both Fifa and PES this year, I always have done (although PES10 was a regret...) but I can't get enough of some of the features, and I hope the gameplay is brilliant like the good old days
Just in case anyone missed the trailer on the first page of the website (like myself :|):
FOCaN_1RdrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOCaN_1RdrU
Dragonfly
13-07-2010, 19:34
I'm impressed, but I'd like to know if basic 90 degree turns are still slow to execute for non-highly skilled dribblers.
bongplayer
13-07-2010, 19:50
Damn..must not fall for.. the hype...ahh this looks friggin sick!
Alas its still early and I need lots of reassurances such as improved (more difficult/aggressive) AI and..yah I think I then I am sold!
SammyGunner11
13-07-2010, 19:57
Looking forward to more editing news. I've heard that there'll be a limitless amount of creation slots for players and teams, which will be epic for Option file makers like myself.
Also did you guys notice that in the new screenshots that some players have tight fitted jerseys whereas others don't. Do you guys think that there'll be a "tight fitted/ loosely fitted jersey" option under edit players or is the tightness of the jersey based on the team as a whole rather than the players individually. I brought this up 'cuz the shirt of Hugo Lloris isn't tight fitted whereas the rest of his teammates are (the Italians and Germans aren't wearing tight fitted jerseys either).
Also, I'm not sure, but it looks like Gourcuff's shirt is longer in length (untucked) than lets say Sagna's.
Some Positives:
*Linking dribbles together.
*Edit mode (can already tell that it's gonna be great).
*The new menu & slider system.
Some Negatives:
*I still don't like the way players fall to the ground when they get tackled.
*GK animation still isn't great for me.
Hopes:
*I Hope the new camera angle does not affect my gameplay, especially when the ball is on the far side of the screen.
*I Hope Players A, F, H, etc. are gone 'cuz they show up in ML.
*I Hope the naming convention can be changed. Maybe something similar to FIFAs, where outside game you can see a player's full name (First & Last), and during game it can just be there last names (I doubt this will be implimented though).
*I Hope reaction time is much better/fluid (when kicking a ball, trying to keep the ball from crossing the line, etc.).
*I Hope defending feels better. Both standing and sliding tackles should be improved. I don't want it to look like I stepped into a tackle and the attacking player just walks by me as if I'm not there. It looks good so far, but I need to play it first before I'm convinced.
muzza798
13-07-2010, 20:18
Pes 2011 is the Pes 3 of nex gen consoles. It does look revolutionary. I'm still a little resevered as we havnt yet seen a game beeing played in wide cam or normal long for more than 3 seconds here and there. By the looks of it I'll be playing it on ultra fast cos this 'slow the pace down' stuff is fucking crazy. All the best pes' were fast, nippy and had a lot of goal mouth action. Slowing the game down makes it far less eventful and makes it drag on. Everything I've seen I've been pleased with. Not overhyped due to lack of detailed info such as sdtadium editor. Yes it sounds kl but let's wait till we actually see how its used. Online master league? Sounds great but let's see how many players it can hold etc etc. People, don't overhype it. Even the best of reviewers are saying it turns slow etc so not all perfect. Just keep calm.
Hope you all will enjoy the mortal combat style combo moves on the right stick...I thought PES was aiming to be a simulation?
http://editor.pesfan.com/PES2011/teaser/PES2011_gameplan_linkfeints.jp g
All i can say .....Horrible!
Although the vid barely has any new content, the little shown reveals this..
Ball Physics is horrible. The Ball shoots out from a pass and then just abruptly stops near the receiver.
Defence is dumber than ever. They are not even trying.
Animations are nothing like the fluid vid they showed us of Messi.
PES 2010 still resides in the animations and gameplay.
The christmas lights under the players must go.
Gameplay looks exactly like PES 2006.
Tricks looks cool though....
Overall 2 out of 10 so far.
Ohh by the way! ...There is no online!
Just in case anyone missed the trailer on the first page of the website (like myself :|):
FOCaN_1RdrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOCaN_1RdrU
this really looks impressive:shocking: so i'm hoping it feels that way too when its in our hands.
James_dean
14-07-2010, 14:36
All i can say .....Horrible!
Although the vid barely has any new content, the little shown reveals this..
Ball Physics is horrible. The Ball shoots out from a pass and then just abruptly stops near the receiver.
Defence is dumber than ever. They are not even trying.
Animations are nothing like the fluid vid they showed us of Messi.
PES 2010 still resides in the animations and gameplay.
The christmas lights under the players must go.
Gameplay looks exactly like PES 2006.
Tricks looks cool though....
Overall 2 out of 10 so far.
Ohh by the way! ...There is no online!
:) you need to think before you talk lad. I refuse to believe you have an iq equal to a fish
ahmed a.
14-07-2010, 14:53
Defence is dumber than ever. They are not even trying.
because they are playing on beginner.
All i can say .....Horrible!
Although the vid barely has any new content, the little shown reveals this..
Ball Physics is horrible. The Ball shoots out from a pass and then just abruptly stops near the receiver.
Defence is dumber than ever. They are not even trying.
Animations are nothing like the fluid vid they showed us of Messi.
PES 2010 still resides in the animations and gameplay.
The christmas lights under the players must go.
Gameplay looks exactly like PES 2006.
Tricks looks cool though....
Overall 2 out of 10 so far.
Ohh by the way! ...There is no online!
Omg :rolleyes:
The Ball Physics look weird, but not horrible
It's on beginner. They are trying to show some tricks, you know.
Agree, but its not day and night in the fluidness between the Messi vid and the latest one.
Where? I hope you can show me.
Christmas Lights?? :erm:
No online??
:rolleyes:
you guys read the IGN editors opinions on the gameplay ? i dunno sounds kinda sad.
see link
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/110/1105728p1.html
you guys read the IGN editors opinions on the gameplay ? i dunno sounds kinda sad.
see link
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/110/1105728p1.html
You do know that they only played the game for like 5 mins because they had to go?
byrnie05
14-07-2010, 16:47
Hmm, some sort of posting error. My apologies.
Wow, that's looking pretty bloody special right now.
The curved passing, promising greater control on the ball looks sweet. I can imagine trying out all sorts with the ball if that level of control is afforded to the player.
EDIT: Thanks mods.
You do know that they only played the game for like 5 mins because they had to go?
well if thats the case,why the ass did they do a write up on it ?
well if thats the case,why the ass did they do a write up on it ?
Tbh, I don't know. Kinda stupid thing.
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