WWE Raw [Put Spoilers in Tags] [Archive] - Page 3

shaun7

15-02-2012, 13:14

I also think that Raw was an excellent show and quite packed with stuff. Taker vs triple H is great and all, and the way the build up is shaping up is very, very interesting and original for Taker at least.

Maybe HBK will appear another time because HHH still didn't want to face Taker for wrestlemania. I would love it if HBK will appear for another show. His mic skills and performance are excellent.

CM PUNK vs Chris Jericho (a heel Jericho, I might add) is one of the best things ever in my view. Seriously those 2 are awesome in every way shape or form (for what WWE demands) and the way the feud is shaping up is also very interesting.

Kane's character is great too. His hate stuff and the way he talks on the mic is also very good and it was hilarious to see Zack flying off his wheel chair. :) The ambulance match between Kane and Cena is very good and in my view, very difficult to predict. I mean, if Cena looses, he will loose credibility against The Rock and Kane just cannot loose after a return like that. Oh and Kane still doesn't have an opponent for Wrestlemania, so maybe somehow, after the match this Sunday, Kane might end up having an opponent for Mania.

BTW, I cannot understand why fans hate Cena. I mean, he's a performer, why hate him?

muscularmatt

15-02-2012, 13:20

Fans aren't going to boo him. There's no point.

Did you watch the segment with Shawn Michaels? "All this is going to be mine!!" Perfect heel line!

I know he's in that 'super duper legend so people will always like him' status, but history shows he works as a heel. He needs to be mean and nasty and just play on the whole 'I'm next in line after Vince dies' angle, and it'd work perfectly.

Has he not also been quoted in interviews saying he wanted one more heel run before he retires too??

Joel

15-02-2012, 13:38

BTW, I cannot understand why fans hate Cena. I mean, he's a performer, why hate him?

Because his character is beyond stale and he no sells almost everything (storyline wise).

Did you watch the segment with Shawn Michaels? "All this is going to be mine!!" Perfect heel line!

I know he's in that 'super duper legend so people will always like him' status, but history shows he works as a heel. He needs to be mean and nasty and just play on the whole 'I'm next in line after Vince dies' angle, and it'd work perfectly.

Has he not also been quoted in interviews saying he wanted one more heel run before he retires too??

Of course he works as a heel. He was a great heel. But he's at the status where if he Pedigreed your nan, punched your mother and then fucked your wife, you're still going to cheer him.

He's not even an out and out face right now, anyway. The situation is exactly what Hunter said.

muscularmatt

15-02-2012, 14:11

I dig the whole evolved social dynamic thing, but for drama to work, there still has to be baddies. It can't just be a load of tweener baddass do my own thing type guys running round.

TURN TRIPS NOW!

Sho

15-02-2012, 16:54

I hate Kane.

Michu

15-02-2012, 18:04

I hate Kane.

I don't hate Kane but I can understand the sentiment. For me, the character hasn't developed nearly as menacingly as I hoped, maybe its unreasonable considering he has only recently been returned to the mask.

I look at every moment of gold for Kane as being encapsulated in his wanton violence. The wooden spoon moments are the dreadful speech segments and his speech this week as funny as I found it, I find myself reflecting on it as undermining his character.

I remember Glenn Jacobs first appearance as Kane back in 1997, it reminded of watching the Undertaker for the first time, here was a character with a dark mystique, a great 'anti-hero'. Glenn is a great wrestler and if they want to do cool quip Kane then have him as a face a la 2001.

I've got high hopes new Kane will become a dominant player but at the moment it feels like cheap filler until Wrestlemania. I've been watching the WWE/WWF since the 80s so I'm probably always going to be a little unfairly nostalgic.

muscularmatt

15-02-2012, 18:14

Hopefully they'll turn him back face after Wrestlemania and give him a decent run.

Michu

15-02-2012, 18:24

Hopefully they'll turn him back face after Wrestlemania and give him a decent run.

*Don't read the spoiler if you do not want to know something that happens on Smackdown this week*

I cannot believe that Santino Marella is in the Elimination PPV when surely Kane would have been a great pick to replace Orton. I mean the story with Cena is done, I really couldn't give a flying fook about an ambulance match. If the ramifications of a Cena win is that he turns slightly heel to sell the Rock, big whoop, honestly, its not needed. Everyone wants the Rock to beat Cena anyhow and hopes McMahon and Ross agree

Haribo

15-02-2012, 18:33

Once Cena disposes of Kane he'll be back to doing what he does best: absolutely nothing of interest. Maybe comedy skits on youtube throwing Zack Ryder from high places.

I still think Triple H can turn heel. Out of all the 'legends' that are regulars, he's the most likely to be a heel and get booed. There'll always be that small section that, rightly or wrongly, hate him for "sleeping his way to the top". It could've worked with the Punk feud at the end of last summer - if he screwed Punk and sided with Nash instead of the inter-Kliq war/authority struggle with ACE we got , booing him would've come naturally.

And if he winds up taking over from Vince, not just backstage, but as the main on-screen authority figure then there's no way he'll stay face throughout. Undertaker's the one who simply cannot become a heel at this stage in his career.

Eve looked magnificent in her sluttiness on Raw, btw.

Michu

15-02-2012, 18:47

It could've worked with the Punk feud at the end of last summer - if he screwed Punk and sided with Nash instead of the inter-Kliq war/authority struggle with ACE we got , booing him would've come naturally.

The episode with Nash, along with Michaels, is all about leaving the past behind though. Everyone know's about the clique and for Triple H to fill the McMahon shoes it means making him an insular figure and cutting old ties and rivalries. I'm sure there will be at least one or two good storylines with him but if he does turn heel it won't be as a wrestler, it'll be as a figure of authority. The Triple H heel was great but its done, it had its time and its place but like he said about himself, Shawn and the Undertaker, they are wrestlers from a bygone era, time to put it to rest and milk the brand rather than the talent.

muscularmatt

15-02-2012, 19:36

I still think Triple H can turn heel. Out of all the 'legends' that are regulars, he's the most likely to be a heel and get booed. There'll always be that small section that, rightly or wrongly, hate him for "sleeping his way to the top". It could've worked with the Punk feud at the end of last summer - if he screwed Punk and sided with Nash instead of the inter-Kliq war/authority struggle with ACE we got , booing him would've come naturally.

And if he winds up taking over from Vince, not just backstage, but as the main on-screen authority figure then there's no way he'll stay face throughout. Undertaker's the one who simply cannot become a heel at this stage in his career.

Wish I could rep you for that Andy. Couldn't sum it up better myself.

shaun7

15-02-2012, 19:48

Because his character is beyond stale and he no sells almost everything (storyline wise).

But that's what makes Cena who he is. He's just different. I enjoy watching him because he's different and BTW, his mic skills are very good.

As for Kane. I seriously don't want to see him loose the ambulance match. Something has to happen in that match. Oh and at least we have Kane back the way he's suppose to be and at least he is showing some promising signs by bringing hate back with his character. I hope they continue developing Kane like he was before, but with a twist or a slight change like for example "hate" being is thing.

Oh and Taker will never turn heel, simply because even if he does, the fans will never boo him.

I am still amazed at the crow reaction that Cm Punk is getting every week. Seriously, he's always getting the loudest pops from the fans. In my view, he can reach legend status very soon.

Joel

15-02-2012, 19:57

shaun7

15-02-2012, 20:46

^I understand your point, but hey, that is exactly what makes Cena unique and original (in terms of wwe characters). It seems that some people cannot get this. But I do however understand your point and I partially agree. But then again, that is what makes him unique.

Cena needs a more heated rivalry. Yes he has this with The Rock which is great and all and the build up is great aswell, but the Rock doesn't show up on Raw.

With Cena on the show, it balances out. There are too many "bad" guys on the roster. By bad, I don't mean just heels like Dolph Ziggler, but bad in terms of character like Kane, Randy Orton (which is currently making me sick winning and dominating every feud), Sheamus (yeah, like Orton he's face, but he's always advertised as a barbaric champion). You know, having a really good guy like Cena actually balances things out.

Hunter

15-02-2012, 21:02

Nash and HHH running around? It's not 1999 anymore, guys. Their rivalry was bad enough, them burying new talent would have been worse. Plus, HHH was getting better pops than Punk when Punk was at his hottest (no homo).

HHH buried the whole roster on the night of the walk out and everyone including the camera men got booed, while Hunter got cheered. HHH as a heel will not work.

Shaun, you asked why Cena is hated and I gave you the answer. That's fine if you like him, but everyone can't share the same opinion. He's good on the mic, but he is corny as hell as well (points for rhyme). I can't take the guy anymore, but if this storyline goes to make him less of a goody goody, then things might change. I don't even need the guy to turn heel. But I can't have this guy being screwed out of the WWE title and then the next night he comes out smiling and giving props to the guy who CHEATED him.

Agreed, on all of the above...just about.

I think in time HHH can become a full-blown heel again, but I don't think it'd be positive if it were to happen so soon. There's just not much point in it. I think his character needs to develop more as a 'corporate' man first, just to provide a foundation, and bedrock for his future in the WWE, because we all know he's going to be around on-screen for a long time. There's no point rushing a turn just because he's now working more corporately. Let it gradually develop for now. Plus, we have Mr. Laurinaitis to play the corporate villain at the moment, which seems to be working well to be honest.

As for Kane, I like his character. Expecting him to be on par with his previous masked character is asking for too much. There's little mystique surrounding him now, so what he does need to do I think, is continue what he's already doing - and that's embracing this "hate", ultimately allowing him (Kane) to commit these atrocities that we've not seen in a long time. While his character can't really be 'mysterious' anymore, he can still be a very fearful character, and that's what I believe they need to stick to.

John Cena? Man oh man, where do I start? Watching him is quite cringeworthy, given his relatively average in-ring skills and ridiculously exaggerated facial expressions to the point of making pornstars look like Oscar-nominees. I'd never "boo" Cena though, simply because he seems to be a legitimately wonderful guy, and like his character or not, he still works himself to the bone, and I have so much respect for him. Joel is right though regarding Cena's selling. During the initial matches, he's quite good at it, and can appear hurt, but it's the next night/week where he sprints down to the ring despite being cracked with a steel chair 5+ times in the back in his last match. :lol: You have to ask yourself though, is this John Cena, or is this WWE deciding this? Because with Cena being such an integral part of the company, perhaps they just feel he needs to 'appear' to be fit, in order to continue competing and, ultimately, to keep the fans happy e.g. when on tour, and merchandising.

As you can probably tell by now, I don't mind Cena, but there are definitely aspects of his character that need to develop now. He needs to absolutely become more subtle in his emotions, in order to raise question marks over his emotions. It could help his character become more interesting again if he embraces being 'a shade of grey'. There's no point turning him given most of the crowd boos him anyway, along with buying the "Cena Sucks" shirts which will go towards his merchandising, while the younger audience will continue to cheer him and buy his more positive shirts. The WWE has the crowd in the perfect place really I guess when you think about it, now it just seems to be a matter of making the character a little bit more interesting - by Cena controlling his emotions a lot better when delivering promos/during a segment.

Michu

15-02-2012, 21:06

Nash and HHH running around? It's not 1999 anymore, guys. Their rivalry was bad enough, them burying new talent would have been worse.

Exactly, its time to move forward. The WWE is making it clear that it wants to be promoting new talent and not going the way that WCW did.

Jim Ross has been moving towards getting younger guys into the ring (fnar fnar) for the last decade, Taker and Hunter are vestigial remains of the attitude era, them squaring off one more time, it puts it to bed. Undertaker is a great character no doubt but even Mark knows time is calling to wind down his career, he's no spring chicken.

Potkettleblack

Hunter

15-02-2012, 21:13

Sminky, you're now even referring to the wrestlers, by their real first names?

:willis:

muscularmatt

15-02-2012, 21:45

HHH was getting better pops than Punk when Punk was at his hottest (no homo).

Er, what? Maybe on one or two of the Raws that were in redneck towns and Punk was too alt for them, but this I cannot agree with.

Hunter

15-02-2012, 22:00

Er, what? Maybe on one or two of the Raws that were in redneck towns and Punk was too alt for them, but this I cannot agree with.

They both get good reactions, and I'm sure there's been several weeks where each one has 'outpopped' the other. It's not really a big issue. It's great that despite some setbacks as far as CM Punk's feuds have gone, he's still been able to maintain great crowd responses, and on a regular basis too.

muscularmatt

15-02-2012, 23:26

The booking has always been sickeningly in HHH's favour, anyway. Joel's mentioned the walkout angle, which was fucking moronic to say the very least. When Trips beat Punk in their match, okay it wasn't totally clean, but the point remains - Punk wins everything, freshly turned face, BITW gimmick, on fire, and then he goes under a guy that's wrestled once in the previous 12 months.

It's been long reported that Taker doesn't like HHH in real life, citing selfish booking and never putting people over. I don't blame him too. Simply don't like the guy.

EDIT - Anyone remember Survivor Series? When The Rock made his big return? CM Punk had the biggest fucking pop of the night.

Joel

15-02-2012, 23:47

CM Punk has gone absolutely shit over the last two months or so. His comebacks are terrible and his jokes are even worse. Clown shoes? Fuck off. No one chants it and they never will.

Michu

16-02-2012, 00:48

Sminky, you're now even referring to the wrestlers, by their real first names?

:willis:

You've got a thing about real names being used. Is there something you want to tell us Hunter? :lol:

I'm going to google "Thomas Hunter Police Warrant".

Joel, spot on, that Clown shoes gag is painfully un-amusing. I cannot believe this is the same show that only 5 years ago had Shawn Michaels and Triple H exclaiming "Holy Shit" on RAW.

shaun7

16-02-2012, 08:39

CM Punk has gone absolutely shit over the last two months or so. His comebacks are terrible and his jokes are even worse. Clown shoes? Fuck off. No one chants it and they never will.

Let's be fair now. Cm Punk's character is NOT about making fans say what he wants or make them say catch phrases. The thing that counts is that in every arena they go, when Cm Punk is present, there are consistent loud CM PUNK chants, even in the match itself.

Also, you don't need to say words like holy sh!t or b!tch in order to make a point (in wwe). Cm Punk is entertaining, even the way he acts it up and his expressions show it to a point where no bad word has to come out his mouth in order to make his point and BE ENTERTAINING. :)

Hunter

16-02-2012, 10:22

You've got a thing about real names being used. Is there something you want to tell us Hunter? :lol:

I'm going to google "Thomas Hunter Police Warrant".

It just sounds very weird when you're discussing them as 'Mark' and 'Glenn', as if you're such good friends, that you're on a first name basis with them. :lol:

Somewhat ruins the aura of kayfabe too I think, because it's essentially stepping outside of the wrestling world by using their real names. Obviously feel free to continue doing so though.

On another note, is it not a bit crazy of the WWE to have an Elimination Chamber PPV leading up to Wrestlemania? The risk for injury is undoubtedly increased, so you'd think they'd be stepping on eggshells - clearly not!

Haribo

16-02-2012, 10:36

Joel

16-02-2012, 11:29

Let's be fair now. Cm Punk's character is NOT about making fans say what he wants or make them say catch phrases. The thing that counts is that in every arena they go, when Cm Punk is present, there are consistent loud CM PUNK chants, even in the match itself.

Also, you don't need to say words like holy sh!t or b!tch in order to make a point (in wwe). Cm Punk is entertaining, even the way he acts it up and his expressions show it to a point where no bad word has to come out his mouth in order to make his point and BE ENTERTAINING. :)

Except he's not entertaining me anymore. He's actually making me cringe and wondering if this is really CM Punk talking.

He got over for speaking straight and direct to his opponents, but now he is on a mission to become a funny man and it's failing so hard.

Triple H was never in the wrong there though. That's why it was so easy for him to get the cheers. He called the SummerSlam match down the middle (albeit he fucked up) and he called Punk out on insulting his wife (his actions were justifiable).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/797633-wwe-summerslam-2011-why-triple-h-will-turn-heel-in-the-main-event - OK, while I think their idea of Triple H turning heel yet aiding a face Punk is ludicrous, they've got some of the basics right.

I'll always maintain that Triple H screwing both Punk & Cena so Del Rio wins the title would've been the right move. I would rather Nash have not been involved at all, but there we are. Out of the two options, I still would've preferred Nash + Triple H together than against one another - like how it originally seemed with the text message.

By the way, on Cena.. when was the last time he had a feud that had a great finale and closure?

Fair enough on that. Won't argue against it.

Last time Cena had a good rivalry closure was probably against Edge in the TLC match in 07. Although, that was more of a chapter close, rather than the whole rivalry itself.

BarnDoor

16-02-2012, 11:39

HHH is and has always been a cunt. We all know this.

The moment Kane took of his mask and then even worse decided to show his upper torso, he become a total embarressment.

I flicked on a few days ago and saw that abortion Seamus in some tag match and the whole thing stunk of the worse type of shit imaginable. I mean I've been watching some of the TNA weekly PPV's from 2003 recently and believe me the shit that stunk of was that of a colostomy bag in microwave type explosion but the stuff nowadays is even worse.

Joel

16-02-2012, 11:50

No one cares about your opinion on wrestling anymore, Barn. We put up with you, cause you're like Flair. But secretly we can't wait to dance on your grave.

BarnDoor

16-02-2012, 11:58

Do forgive me for preferring wrestling when it was actually (well, mostly) good. The extent of my wrestling faggot archive would put you all to shame - think of the warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark and throw in Mike Awesome's corpse, Steve William's larynx, Jim Duggan's kidney tumour and Paul Orndorrf's mangled arm and you'll be somewhere close.

And I don't mean to be pedantic, but your comment about 'Nash and Triple H running around' like its 1999 doesn't really make sense because obviously they weren't in the same fed then. And you wish it was 1999 again. Even WCW in late 1999 - which was really shit - was better than the current bollocks.

I can't talk to you anymore Joel. Go and pleasure yourself over the pale body of Sheamus.

Haribo

16-02-2012, 14:01

So you liked the Royal Rumble this year, Barn? We all know your dislike of Sheamus is due to his affiliation with Laughin Man & the O'Shaunessy potato farm.

Punk needs to go back to the Punk we know and not the comedian otherwise he'll get roasted by Jericho on the mic. Clown shoes is a woeful nickname (it's Cena-bad territory) and I have no idea what his beastiality comment was about.

BarnDoor

16-02-2012, 14:20

I didn't watch the Rumble. Last I saw was 2004.

Hunter

16-02-2012, 20:53

Barn, do you watch the WWE at all nowadays?

If not, you're hardly in a position to state that it's an inferior product. Opinion is opinion of course, but it's like me saying Transformers 3 is utter shit, despite never seeing it.

I like to view the WWE as it stands today, without comparing it to the past. It allows me to enjoy the shows more, and I can become more engrossed within them. The past is the past, and while there's nothing wrong with watching old shows and PPVs, it's a bit pointless to constantly compare wrestling back then to what it is today in the WWE. You're only going to continue to not only disappoint yourself, but also prevent yourself from enjoying what is actually a relatively good watch for the most part. Sure there has been storyline setbacks, injuries, suspensions, but the WWE has definitely provided some interesting points in the last year as well as allowing the younger talent to shine through more. It's quite an interesting time in the WWE, and I'm definitely glad to be back watching it again, and soaking up as much as I can.

BarnDoor

16-02-2012, 21:10

Why do you think I stopped watching it in the first place Hunter? It's shit, has been on a decline for almost ten years now. Perhaps I should apologize for not being the sort of sap who happily watches such dross?

By the same token, if you'd seen the wrestling I've seen, you'd know exactly where I was coming from. Like with films, you're really not in a position to challenge my view on this.

Joel

16-02-2012, 21:17

Like with films, you're really not in a position to challenge my view on this.

:laugh:

I will say one serious thing; you need to fuck off with that elitest bullshit. You're acting like if you didn't see wrestling in that period, then you can't judge. Like footage/videos aren't accessible from back then...

Hunter

16-02-2012, 21:31

:laugh:

I will say one serious thing; you need to fuck off with that elitest bullshit. You're acting like if you didn't see wrestling in that period, then you can't judge. Like footage/videos aren't accessible from back then...

Exactly.

Just because I've most likely seen less wrestling from previous decades, it doesn't mean that my opinion on the current product is meaningless and less important, nor does it mean I can be belittled. Those who are fortunate enough to have seen a huge amount of wrestling from the past, should instead appreciate it for what it is, as opposed to comparing it to today's climate frequently, and using the whole 'back in the day' spiel.

Bish

16-02-2012, 21:42

:laugh:

I will say one serious thing; you need to fuck off with that elitest bullshit. You're acting like if you didn't see wrestling in that period, then you can't judge. Like footage/videos aren't accessible from back then...

I wouldn't say elitest, it's just when you've seen the quality of the product at such a high standard, none of us should have to accept something that's much lower. I suppose it's easier for most current fans as they're too young to know anything other than WWE years.

I'm not gonna have a go at the poor writing, lack of proper characters etc, the main reason wrestling has died down is the internet. I saw a shoot video of Bobby Heenan a while ago where he summed it up perfectly. Saying along the lines of 'everyone knows our secrets, the magic is over'. Can you imagine back in the 80s/90s people having access to Hogan, Warrior, Savage etc on social media like twitter? It completely kills any mystery about the character. You see Warrior bursting down the aisle, shaking the ropes with his facepaint, then posts a picture of himself on twitter with his cat. Fans know too much about the business now with backstage news, politics and it just won't ever recover.

Hunter's right, we shouldn't compare back then to now, the ratings suggest there's no point. It just isn't as big anymore.

Michu

16-02-2012, 21:43

Those who are fortunate enough to have seen a huge amount of wrestling from the past, should instead appreciate it for what it is, as opposed to comparing it to today's climate frequently, and using the whole 'back in the day' spiel.

I myself do appreciate it for what it is ... but ... with the last couple of PPV's being generally poor and the flagship shows being fairly vapid I do agree with Barn that these are not halcyon days for the WWE. That said I thought the 2000s were not too bad at all, in fact I remember 2002-04 serving up some amazing matches namely those featuring Kurt Angle.

That's where the problem is for me, there is a dearth of quality at the top end, add to that instantly forgettable mid card wrestlers to the misappropriation of Cena and Orton (although granted Orton was being lined up for a title run in) and you feel the WWE is just stalled living off expectation of the Rock v Cena.

Like I said, I enjoy the shows for what they are ... but when I see them parading Brodus Clay around like a globular cheer leader, I just think "meh".

Joel

16-02-2012, 21:44

I wouldn't say elitest, it's just when you've seen the quality of the product at such a high standard, none of us should have to accept something that's much lower. I suppose it's easier for most current fans as they're too young to know anything other than WWE years.

That wasn't the Elitest part. The "I know more than you, so you can't say shit" (paraphrased) remark was.

I respect Barn's opinion a lot and I enjoy when we discuss wrestling from its boom period, but he was out of order in his last post.

BarnDoor

16-02-2012, 21:57

:laugh:

I will say one serious thing; you need to fuck off with that elitest bullshit. You're acting like if you didn't see wrestling in that period, then you can't judge. Like footage/videos aren't accessible from back then...

I'm saying you can't judge past wrestling if you're largely going on post-1998 watching and officials DVD, in light of him saying I can't judge modern wrestling having not seen much of it. I'm not sure if Hunter truly realizes how good it was for that reason. Which I think is more than fair. It wasn't meant as 'you can't have an opinion on wrestling full-stop'.

As for remark on the footage - do you know what I have Joel? How much I've paid? Tons more stuff than you get online I'll tell you that much.

Hunter our opinions will differ on the current product. If I insinuated that you're not allowed to have an opinion, it's only because I didn't appreciate you basically suggesting in the first place that mine is very suspect on this matter. The problem Hunter is that, unlike others, you seem to take real offence to my views - as though they're wrong - and post as if you might change my opinion. Which we all know is never going to happen. You'd be better off calling me a cunt and telling me to fuck off, that would get my goat far less.

It's not really about comparison - it's just not sticking with something that has dipped hugely in quality. Kind of like how I gave up on Prison Break. And in such cases you'll always say 'remember how great season one was?' It's just the way of the world that you'll judge a continuation of something on what has gone before.

And Sminky there was some great stuff in the early 00s. I gave up in early 2004, about Wrestlemania time.

Hunter

16-02-2012, 22:12

Hunter our opinions will differ on the current product. If I insinuated that you're not allowed to have an opinion, it's only because I didn't appreciate you basically suggesting in the first place that mine is very suspect on this matter. The problem Hunter is that, unlike others, you seem to take real offence to my views - as though they're wrong - and post as if you might change my opinion. Which we all know is never going to happen. You'd be better off calling me a cunt and telling me to fuck off, that would get my goat far less.

But that's the thing, it's not the first time you've said (or implied) that you rarely watch the WWE now. Therefore, how are you in great position to form a solid opinion upon WWE's product right now? - just like I'm not in a position to really discuss wrestling from 15+ years ago, but the difference is that, I know my opinion on older wrestling won't hold much weight, and as a result, I'm not putting my opinion across on the matter as if it were important, elitist or even fact.

I'm not trying to 'change' your opinion, or anyone elses. But it's not the first time you've pulled the 'I'm more educated on this subject, therefore my opinion is right, while yours means little/is wrong'.

This is all somewhat similar to how I respond when people on this very forum frequently mention how PESInsight was the 'place to be'. In which they'll then usually state that the current forum is shit and inactive. My response is always "why don't you create some more threads of your own then?", as opposed to just clinging onto older times and constantly comparing the two 'eras' of the forum.

muscularmatt

16-02-2012, 23:31

BarnDoor

17-02-2012, 08:54

We're all guilty of fogeyism in some respects, I tend to do it with music, Barn does it with wrestling.

As someone who did watch the 'golden' years of wrestling, and watches today, I feel I can objectively comment. Since the Cena/Punk rivalry of the summer, I think the WWE product has improved alot. And when I say improved, I mean it's been geared more to my demographic. The time was going to come when PG had gone too far, and started to alienate the young adult viewer. I think they recognised that and changed things just in time.

But Matt your opinion never mattered for anything so I'm afraid you can't 'objectively comment'.

Hunter I take it you're referring to our film debates, which to be honest only usually start when you make some ignorant comment about me only liking violent or horror films.

I'll just end by saying I think you can see/read/hear enough about something to know it's shit without watching it in full. Hunter I would actually say the Transformers 3 was shit, and rather not endure the pain of watching it. That's the type of person I am.

shaun7

17-02-2012, 10:06

I understand that some people don't like WWE nowdays. I seriously do. However, I cannot understand the people who claim that WWE was better and they don't watch it anymore because it sucks. How do you know it sucks if you don't watch the product?

It's like me commenting on a football match and saying that it was as I expected but I didn't watch it. Just because I know about football, IF I didn't see the match, I still cannot comment on it.

Now as for WWE in general. Some people prefer the old style wrestling and say that WWE has changed. It did change, but not as some people claim it did. We humans have a tendency to always remember the good side of a product first and not the bad side and I believe that it's what causes some people to say that the old times were better than the new time. This is a natural thing btw. Even in the attitude era, there were some very bad moments, just like today's bad moments.

Keep in mind that WWE did change a bit however. They changed the approach to things and you know why they did it? They did it because times have changed and if you stay the same for too long without changing anything, your product becomes outdated and people will start to get bored seeing the same stuff and same approach. You cannot compare both eras simply because it's a different time and the demands are different now and so is the approach. It's like a marketing business to say the least.

In my view, WWE was and still is entertaining and I have been watching and enjoying wrestling since 1995 (to say the least).

Joel

17-02-2012, 12:28

By the way, Transformers 3 really was shit.

But you shouldn't say it unless you watched it!

Terrible movie though.

BarnDoor

17-02-2012, 12:52

I'm of the school where you can make a judgement call without having seen something fully. If I watched the current product every week and still said it was awful, that would make me either a) a sap; b) a hypocrite or c) a cunt. Infact I think my opinion would be even less valid if I did this, because you'd just say 'well don't bother watching it then if you feel that way'.

muscularmatt

17-02-2012, 13:01

Have you watched Raw at all for the past six months or so, Barn?

BarnDoor

17-02-2012, 13:12

Matt I told you I'm done with watching modern wrestling. I might keep abreast and check out something that sounded interesting (usually involving 'old-school' individuals), but for the best part I have no interest in it and won't be going back unless something truly drastic happens (like Sid turning up or something).

And can I just say as well I'm not just talking about the Attitude era, or indeed WWF/E for that matter? I'm talking about wrestling in general. I've watched a great deal from WCW, ECW, JCP, Georgia, AWA, WCCW, Memphis/CWA, CWF, SMW, USWA, Mid-South/UWF, many smaller territories; and from further afield Puerto Rico, Mexico, Stampede, New Japan, All Japan, FMW, IWA Japan, Big Japan. Stuff going back to the early 70s. And I don't mean the odd match, but in many instances weekly programming, house shows, etc. In short, far more than you can 'get online', and far more than simply the odd match or PPV on YouTube. If I sound elitist at times in regard to older wrestling I think my level of faggotry has entitled me to that.

muscularmatt

17-02-2012, 13:18

So, whatever happens and however much they change the creative direction, you can't be won over?

BarnDoor

17-02-2012, 16:13

The thing is mate the lack of real characters has killed it for me. There are no badasses anymore. The writing can afford to be wretched because there has been no competition for over a decade.

muscularmatt

17-02-2012, 18:38

Well Blame Hogan for fucking TNA up then. For a little while, it looked like that was going to be the next WCW. But now, it's a one brand market again.

Michu

17-02-2012, 18:48

Its banking on faded prestige. You only have to look at Sting on TNA to see the extent of woe before you. A barely mobile old man coining it.

Joel

17-02-2012, 19:19

Well Blame Hogan for fucking TNA up then. For a little while, it looked like that was going to be the next WCW. But now, it's a one brand market again.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it was going to be the next WCW, but hell, it was entertaining before Hogan, Bischoff and Flair came, that's for sure.

Preparing for a lambasting from Barn now.

BarnDoor

17-02-2012, 20:03

Joel

17-02-2012, 20:06

The first incarnation of Main Event Mafia (Sting, Angle, Booker, Steiner and Nash) was class.

And back then, they gave a damn about the X-Division and we would see some great matches.

Michu

17-02-2012, 20:12

To be fair TNA has been very good in spells down the years. As I said before, I enjoyed that Joker Sting/Hogan angle, a couple of the promos were funny if nothing else. I think they have genuine talent in the likes of Styles and Joe but what's really killing them - more, I think, than bringing in the auld cunts - is bringing in all the WWE rejects.

Joker Sting divided the fans from what I'd seen, at times there was a hint of Jim Carrey a la the Mask. Sting has a great ring and mic gravitas but he could barely execute his moves, the Stinger splash always looked cheap but even more so now and he could barely bend his back to execute the Scorpion Deathlock, it just looked embarrassing. It reminded me of Triple H having to get himself into the reverse triangle hold because 'Taker couldn't execute it properly at Wrestlemania last year.

The best thing about TNA was Angle and its incomprehensible that if Lesnar is returning to WWE later this year, that Angle can't get a sniff.

Ziss

23-02-2012, 23:39

Just watching RAW; please could someone explain the point of them keeping The Great Khali? He's never been entertaining, and his performance on Sunday was woeful.

EDIT: this post was before he was eliminated from the Battle Royale after a matter of seconds.

Haribo

23-02-2012, 23:51

It's one of life's great mysteries. Some say it's because he brings in the Indian market, others because he's a freak show and we're back in Victorian England. I genuinely thought he'd gone last year but lo and behold he returned in the Royal Rumble.

Ziss

24-02-2012, 00:02

He's fucking terrible. You're probably right about the Indian market. I would compare us signing Park, but Park actually has talent. How about Arsenal's Park?

Did Barrett actually injure his arm, or are they just giving him time off?

Haribo

24-02-2012, 00:19

Legit. Dislocated elbow I think was the diagnosis. He'll probably miss WrestleMania as the initial estimate is 6-8 weeks out.

Michu

24-02-2012, 08:30

It was dislocated and there was a bit of furore about it, general consensus around the circuit is it was completely avoidable. It's ballsed up Barrett's WM storyline as well as he is expected to be out for between 6-8 weeks.

Haribo

24-02-2012, 14:46

Barrett's WM storyline? :lol:

Would be nice if he had one.

Michu

24-02-2012, 17:32

Barrett's WM storyline? :lol:

Would be nice if he had one.

There was one written for him, its clearly gone tits up for him now though. To be fair they weren't exactly laying on a championship win for him though such is their misuse of his character.

Joel

24-02-2012, 17:38

Hunter

26-02-2012, 23:57

He probably was just going to be in MITB (if there is one). I doubt he'd be getting a proper WM programme. This is WWE here. The fact that they have four programmes already must be frightening them :lol:

True.

Am I the only one though that finds Wade Barrett's character dull? I just can't connect with him, and watching him is just really draining unfortunately. Even throwing off his long overcoat at the beginning of his entrance is pointless, I think he should just walk down to the ring with it, at least that way it'd make more than a 3 second appearance.

I am looking forward to Wrestlemania quite a bit though. I'm definitely expecting big things this year!

Haribo

28-02-2012, 10:39

ZKbGUQE-ILE&

:bravo:

Joel

28-02-2012, 10:59

Arrive
Bury
Leave

Sho

28-02-2012, 14:40

ZKbGUQE-ILE&

:bravo:

:laugh:

Sho

29-02-2012, 00:19

Both Raw and SmackDown are about to get extreme makeovers. In an effort to help determine which General Manager should control both shows, the WWE Board of Directors has decided to switch control of each show next week. SmackDown GM Theodore Long will take control of Monday night’s Raw while Raw GM John Laurinaitis takes the reins of next Friday’s SmackDown.

The decision comes one week after Laurinaitis announced at Elimination Chamber that he will seek control over both shows, bolstered by flattering testimonials by Superstars Mark Henry, Christian and Alberto Del Rio. A perturbed Long made it clear to Laurinaitis that he’s not about to take the threat to his position lying down.

Last week on SmackDown, the two got into a heated argument as they tried to overrule one another during a match between WWE Champion CM Punk vs. World Heavyweight Champion Daniel Bryan. Last night on Raw SuperShow, the two were at it again as tensions continued to escalate. What will the GMs have in store for their respective rival as they switch roles? And how will each try to outshine the other? Tune into both Raw and SmackDown to see the lengths they’ll go to impress the Board of Directors – and get back at each other. ohhh this shits gonna get interesting. :happy:

muscularmatt

29-02-2012, 05:15

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho. Who else is looking forward to this slightly more than Rock/Cena? Not a dig at Cena or Rocky, it's a mega match for sure, but this Punk/Jericho rivalry has the potential to be one of the best of all time. The first 15 minutes of this week's Raw were pure fucking gold. That's as good'er entertainment as anything else from a fictional medium I expect to see.

Anyone else remember any feuds where you genuinely couldn't decide who you wanted to cheer for, not for apathy, but because you marked for them both? This is one for me.

Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! Y2J! CM PUNK! That's all that's ringing through my head.

I suspect a Kane face turn sometime soon, he got a good reaction from the crowd when he came out after the tag team match. Edge's film looks well shit.

Rock's promo was genius, obviously, it's just such a shame that Cena's probably gonna go over cleanly against a guy that absolutely humbles him, both in the ring and on the mic. He's in another world in both respects.

Also, did Cena say shit? I know it's not much, but PG and all that. Decent reply I suppose.

Sorry if I'm ranting a touch now, but I've got through a decent amount of wine. Bring on Wrestlemania 28.

EDIT - Fuck Triple H! Miz deserves to be on the WM card twice as much as he does!

Joel

29-02-2012, 11:43

Rock's promo was genius, obviously, it's just such a shame that Cena's probably gonna go over cleanly against a guy that absolutely humbles him, both in the ring and on the mic. He's in another world in both respects.

Also, did Cena say shit? I know it's not much, but PG and all that. Decent reply I suppose.

Rock's promo was toss. Same old shit.

Cena came out and absolutely murdered him. Had him close to tears.

It's sad, but his shtick does not work anymore.

Haribo

29-02-2012, 12:17

Murdered him? :cringe:

I want Rock to fully lay into Cena, but I fear Vince just doesn't want him to because a lot of it would be jibes at the WWE itself.

Joel

29-02-2012, 12:20

Yes. He came out and in 2mins exposed him, after Rock had been going on for 10mins.

lol at your excuse on why Rock can't 'fully' lay into him. Yeah, I'm sure Vince won't allow it. Just like he won't allow Punk to completely rip the WWE apart. Oh wait...

Haribo

29-02-2012, 12:39

With what exactly? The one-off promo note on his arm that may or may not have been intentional?

Well yeah, he could completely lay into the WWE films that Vince has so preciously made. Hate it all you want (and they often make fun of it), but The Tooth Fairy made a decent profit. 12 Rounds made a loss and Cena's other movies since are all Wall-Mart exclusives that scrape the barrel. Hell, he appeared in the worst movie of all time (Fred) and now the sequel for Chrissake. And those aren't even WWE movies, he isn't obliged to be in them. So he can criticise Rock for leaving for Hollywood, but I bet if Cena had just one successful film he'd be off as well.

And let's not forget that Cena has to come out on top here. Everybody involved knows that Rock can't humiliate him, do the job at WrestleMania then leave again because it would make them look bad. They need Cena to look every bit as good as Rock throughout it all. Same deal if it was Austin, Hogan etc.

But even though he completely holds the crowd in the palm of his hand with it, the twitter & trending shit really needs to stop.

Joel

29-02-2012, 12:57

With what exactly? The one-off promo note on his arm that may or may not have been intentional?

Of course that was not intentional. His whole demeanour changed and he squared up like he wanted to hit Cena. Just listen to the cracks in his voice after Cena left.

Also, how pathetic can you get? Notes on your wrist? And this is an actor.

Well yeah, he could completely lay into the WWE films that Vince has so preciously made. Hate it all you want (and they often make fun of it), but The Tooth Fairy made a decent profit. 12 Rounds made a loss and Cena's other movies since are all Wall-Mart exclusives that scrape the barrel. Hell, he appeared in the worst movie of all time (Fred) and now the sequel for Chrissake. And those aren't even WWE movies, he isn't obliged to be in them. So he can criticise Rock for leaving for Hollywood, but I bet if Cena had just one successful film he'd be off as well.

Like no one hasn't took the piss out of it before? Cena has said how terrible they were on the air already.

And let's not forget that Cena has to come out on top here. Everybody involved knows that Rock can't humiliate him, do the job at WrestleMania then leave again because it would make them look bad. They need Cena to look every bit as good as Rock throughout it all. Same deal if it was Austin, Hogan etc.

You just can't admit that The Rock is extremely one dimensional and he can only cut a promo if he is making little nursery rhyme insults at his opponents and throwing out of catchphrase after catchphrase. ZZZZZzzzzz. Seen it. Bored of it.

I always said that all I wanted was for The Rock to make an appearance once a year. That way the magic would never die. Sadly, it didn't happen this way.

Haribo

29-02-2012, 13:13

How come this was the first time he's ever made notes on his arm? And it just so happened to be the first time he gets called out on it? There's no reason for it unless Rock's going senile, suffering from dementia or a ploy between them. Bottom line is we're just speculating on it. Personally I think they both knew what they were doing and the plan is to get people talking. It's a necessity at the moment because they're both a bit thin on material tbh. It's resorted back to just "I don't like you and I'm going to beat you". Rock may have been mad because Cena said he wouldn't care if the company went out of business tomorrow. Again, speculation.

Yes, he's pandering to the crowd. Maybe it's so the crowd stays firmly in his corner, or maybe it's because you can see how much the people in attendance lap it up. Sure I'd love him to drop the catchphrase act for one night and tell it straight, but it's almost like the crowd wouldn't want that. They want to be involved and chant things. Even though Cena 'won that round' and got a few more people in his favour, you wouldn't be able to tell judging by crowd reaction.

The dynamic will interesting next week as they're in Boston I think.

Hunter

29-02-2012, 13:50

Of course that was not intentional. His whole demeanour changed and he squared up like he wanted to hit Cena. Just listen to the cracks in his voice after Cena left.

Also, how pathetic can you get? Notes on your wrist? And this is an actor.

Don't be so crazy, notes on your wrist is nothing. I think we all remember - and even seen - CM Punk's now-notorious promo last summer, of which he did using obvious wrist-notes. Did anyone bitch and cry about him not being 'good' because he had bullet points written down on his wrist? No, of course not, and it would be silly to as well, because what he delivered from his mouth was incredibly entertaining.

Just because The Rock appears in big budget films, it doesn't mean he won't get slightly nervous when on TV, to a live audience of 10,000+, along with millions watching around the world. He can't say "cut", or retake the scene 5 times, it's live, one shot. If he - like full-time wrestler CM Punk - feels more comfortable by writing a few bullet points on his wrist, then go right ahead, I couldn't give a shit. I'm not going to be eye-balling The Rock's wrist to try and 'catch him out'. All I want is to be entertained, and I find I usually am when The Rock speaks, more so than Cena definitely.

As for The Rock being 'phased' by Cena, who are we to know? This is Dwayne Johnson afterall. Someone who puts all other WWE Superstars to utter shame when it comes to acting skills. How do we know Rock was not in on it? I guess we're just not used to a good-level of acting in the WWE right? And as such, Rock being 'phased' seemed incredibly real. Whether it was real or not, I've no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about it beforehand, because let's face it, if anyone can sell emotion in the WWE today, it's Dwayne.

You just can't admit that The Rock is extremely one dimensional and he can only cut a promo if he is making little nursery rhyme insults at his opponents and throwing out of catchphrase after catchphrase. ZZZZZzzzzz. Seen it. Bored of it.

If there is something The Rock is not, it is one dimensional. Cena in comparison is what, barely a dimension? The Rock is versatile when it comes to entertainment, he can sing, act, wrestle and talk well on a microphone, and you best believe he's incorporating all of the above when he's doing the latter. What does he do better than anyone else? Interact with the audience. Just because he interacts with the audience everytime, does that mean he's "one dimensional"? No, it just means he's doing his job incredibly well and consistently, unlike most other WWE Superstars. There's such an obvious gulf in class it's ridiculous.

I don't even dislike John Cena on the mic, it's what he does inbetween his mic work that is pathetic, dull, and ruins every single moment - the gay smirking and talking to the cameramen. Nothing ruins the seriousness of a moment like having Cena turn around, look at you, and give the gayest smile you've ever seen. Every single week he does it, and every single week, he ruins every segment he's in because of it. He doesn't know when to be serious, and when not to be, however.... The Rock does.

Case in point, Rock knows how to entertain, and when to sing the right notes - Cena does not.

Joel

29-02-2012, 14:40

White knighting has really started for The Rock in here!

Don't be so crazy, notes on your wrist is nothing. I think we all remember - and even seen - CM Punk's now-notorious promo last summer, of which he did using obvious wrist-notes. Did anyone bitch and cry about him not being 'good' because he had bullet points written down on his wrist? No, of course not, and it would be silly to as well, because what he delivered from his mouth was incredibly entertaining.

So Rock couldn't remember a promo that he cuts everytime he comes out? Because there was nothing different about the one he cut on Monday that he does in the last year he has been back.

If Punk had notes, that was because he as cutting a 20 minute promo where he had to rip the whole WWE a new one. A promo he has never done before.

What Punk did not need notes for though, was the amazing promo he and Jericho cut on the same Monday where Rock needed notes for a subpar promo.

As for The Rock being 'phased' by Cena, who are we to know? This is Dwayne Johnson afterall. Someone who puts all other WWE Superstars to utter shame when it comes to acting skills. How do we know Rock was not in on it? I guess we're just not used to a good-level of acting in the WWE right? And as such, Rock being 'phased' seemed incredibly real. Whether it was real or not, I've no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about it beforehand, because let's face it, if anyone can sell emotion in the WWE today, it's Dwayne.

If you think that was him acting then wow. He's not that good of an actor, I've seen his movies. And I don't buy it being part of the plan either. Why on earth would The Rock allow someone to belittle him so much in saying that he needs notes to cut a promo?

If there is something The Rock is not, it is one dimensional. Cena in comparison is what, barely a dimension? The Rock is versatile when it comes to entertainment, he can sing, act, wrestle and talk well on a microphone, and you best believe he's incorporating all of the above when he's doing the latter. What does he do better than anyone else? Interact with the audience. Just because he interacts with the audience everytime, does that mean he's "one dimensional"? No, it just means he's doing his job incredibly well and consistently, unlike most other WWE Superstars. There's such an obvious gulf in class it's ridiculous.

He is extremely one dimensional in his promos. Come out, cut catch phrase, nursery rhyme insult to opponent, catchphrase, tell people how he loves the business and it's in his blood, insult opponent with profanity, catchphrase, end.

If you seen one Rock promo, you have seen them all. No change. Maybe he doesn't need to change, as th elive crowd eats it up. But don't tell me he is not one dimensional. There's no creativity left in him. Not for wrestling anyway.

I don't even dislike John Cena on the mic, it's what he does inbetween his mic work that is pathetic, dull, and ruins every single moment - the gay smirking and talking to the cameramen. Nothing ruins the seriousness of a moment like having Cena turn around, look at you, and give the gayest smile you've ever seen. Every single week he does it, and every single week, he ruins every segment he's in because of it. He doesn't know when to be serious, and when not to be, however.... The Rock does.

Case in point, Rock knows how to entertain, and when to sing the right notes - Cena does not.

I'm no Cena fan. But one thing he can do it cut a different type of promo. His corny shit annoys me, but we've seen him cut numerous different ones.

Hunter

29-02-2012, 15:59

Rock looks legitimately angry, squares up to Cena...

Cue perfect Wrestlemania cinematic shot:

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3443/wrestlemaniapromo.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/wrestlemaniapromo.png/)

Job done.

Haribo

29-02-2012, 18:04

Anyone else really like how Eve looks with her heel swagger now?

http://i.imgur.com/E4ZTK.gif

http://i.imgur.com/Oy1vg.png

Just, please, don't give her a match with Kelly at WM.

Sho

29-02-2012, 19:03

the twitter & trending shit really needs to stop.

You damn right.

Hunter

29-02-2012, 20:40

Anyone else really like how Eve looks with her heel swagger now?

I think it's just the fact that she now is speaking, and as such her character has already developed, considering she never really used to speak, and thus was quite boring.

She was smokin' in that dress though. I thought the puppies were going to make an appearance as she briskly walked back up the ramp - it was a close call - but no cigar, unfortunately.

Sho

29-02-2012, 22:05

Never lose a broski over hoeski.

muscularmatt

29-02-2012, 23:19

Hunter

29-02-2012, 23:48

Calm down you bunch of marks. I think the sad thing here is everyone's talking about Rock & Cena, whereas noone said anything about Punk/Jericho. I am genuinely looking forward to the conclusion of that feud more.

Just goes to show how fortunate we are this year I think. Providing the current roster don't suffer anymore injuries - and if a MITB match takes place at Mania - it could very well be absolutely gripping to watch, from start to finish.

What did we have to look forward to last year?

- The Rock making a guest appearance
- The Streak match

I think that's about it right, or am I missing anything?

This year, so far:

- The Rock vs. John Cena
- CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho
- The Streak match (Hell In A Cell)
- Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus
- Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show (probable)

Let's face it, the above card thus far looks damn good. Adding a MITB match to it as well would just floor me, it would really help elevate the PPV potential to something even more special.

The weakest match on there is probably Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show. A match I wouldn't even mind seeing to be honest. I've made no secret about being a big fan of Cody's character, and I feel Big Show is still solid too, he really brings it despite pushing up there in age. He's kept himself in decent condition and can still move swiftly for a guy his size - so while some may consider the match a bit of a disappointment, I don't mind it. Afterall, I loved Mark Henry's title reign, it was damn sweet, so I don't mind the bigger guys working at all, just so long as it's made interesting. That's the important part.

Even the thought of a good Tag Team title match is one I'd quite like to see nowadays. A Tornado Tag match could really make for excellent viewing. Who remembers the Tornado match a couple of months back, that despite only being about 10 minutes long, was superb viewing? It's not like the teams involved would be short of preparation. Sure they may not have worked many Tornado matches before (seems like a dying art), but they've a good few weeks to get ready for a relatively short but sweet match no?

Wrestlemania? Bring it!

Haribo

01-03-2012, 10:12

Don't think there'll be a MITB unfortunately as they surely would've announced it by now (even without the named participants). I actually think there's a bigger possibility of the tag titles being defended in a ladder/TLC match, but even that I don't consider likely. Primo & Epico aren't a 'big' enough team to get a title defence at WM in all honesty.

Let's say Long/Laurinaitis is 5v5 for arguments sake - and with Henry, Otunga, possibly Christian & Del Rio representing Ace, I don't know where this will leave Ziggler & Miz on the card.

Calm down you bunch of marks. I think the sad thing here is everyone's talking about Rock & Cena, whereas noone said anything about Punk/Jericho. I am genuinely looking forward to the conclusion of that feud more.

You may enjoy the feud & matches more, but I can't believe you'd enjoy the conclusion more? I mean, it's pretty clear Punk will win and perhaps a submission rematch at Extreme Rules or something. But with Cena/Rock, you get to look forward to Cena being booed out of the building like never before! :joel:

Joel

01-03-2012, 11:29

I will be marking when Cena dumps Dwayne with the AA. I will mark even harder if he makes Dwayne tap to the STF :terry:

But I am really looking forward to the WWE feud and match. That promo between Punk and Jericho was brilliant and I can only imagine that we have more epic mic showdowns between them. The match is going to be so damn good too.

muscularmatt

01-03-2012, 14:43

Tbh, I couldn't give a rat's ass about the world title match. Sheamus is horribly overrated, and another example of how a big guy with the right gimmick can make it in WWE, irrespective of the quality of their work.

But yeah, I am fully expecting Cena to beat Rock. The only way Rock could credibly win the match would be if he was returning to wrestling full time. I just hope it's not (too) clean.

Joel

01-03-2012, 15:11

Irrespective of the quality of their work? Sheamus is a brilliant wrestler. He has the skill and psychology down. He doesn't feel like a star like the bonafide main eventers, but you can't knock his ring work at all. Him and Bryan (and Orton if added) will put on a great match.

muscularmatt

01-03-2012, 15:51

Ok he's better than the sort of person that I was really jibing at, but 'a brilliant wrestler'? I don't think so. He's big, got a buff physique and an accent. That's why he's a world champion, and a royal rumble match winner. If I was in charge, I'd bust his ass back to Smackdown and have someone like Tyson Kidd taking on Bryan at Wrestlemania.

Joel

01-03-2012, 15:57

You just joined Mak on my future neg list, Matt.

After D-Bryan and Sheamus (and Orton) tear the house down at WM, I will come back and neg the post above.

muscularmatt

01-03-2012, 16:16

Oh yeah, chuck Randy Boreton in there, that'll make it a bucket of fun.

Joel

01-03-2012, 16:22

You are terrible, Matt. Orton's character is boring, but he knows how to work a match. Past and present wrestlers always gives him props on his in ring work.

muscularmatt

01-03-2012, 16:28

You are terrible, Matt.

That's not what your mum said.

Joel

01-03-2012, 16:42

That's not what your mum said.

Your mother and sister sure did though :terry:

muscularmatt

06-03-2012, 18:27

Anyway, thoughts on last night? Has the balance tipped at all towards Cena? Who are you pulling for in the Punk/Jericho scenario?

Orton vs. Kane will probably be added to the card next week.

Sho

06-03-2012, 21:47

I'm bored of this Cena/Rock promo already.

B O R I N G

Sully

06-03-2012, 21:49

Your mother and sister sure did though :terry:

Same person isn't it? :w00t

Hunter

07-03-2012, 00:59

Just finished watching Raw. It's definitely following on from recent weeks, with another jam packed show. Did anyone else notice that there was barely any replays from matches that took place, if any in fact? Talk about tight timing!

Anyway, my thoughts in bullet point form:

- The HHH and HBK segment was good, gripping and the special guest referee twist has me looking forward to Wrestlemania so much more!

- The Teddy Long vs. John Laurainitis feud is hilarious TV, probably for the right reasons to. It’s just so entertaining seeing them squabble and bicker. Seeing Santino Marella win the United States Championship was certainly a highlight though. He’s naturally funny, and is even quite good in the ring, so why not make him champion? Santino is a huge step up I think as a title holder in comparison to Jack Swagger, so I’m intrigued to see how this is going to develop.

- One of the more noticeable things regarding WWE lately, is that mid-card Superstars seem to be getting gradually positive crowd receptions. From Eve being heckled with the “hoeski” chant, to Santino Marella and Zack Ryder receiving really great reactions on a regular basis lately.

- The John Cena segment, which involved him sitting in the empty arena while gazing up at the bright star (Wrestlemania 28), was pretty corny. He got his point across though, and it helps to build the hype surrounding the PPV so I’ve not much of a problem with it since it was a relatively short ‘advert’.

- How fortunate to be given the tag match of CM Punk & Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan & Chris Jericho. It was a great match, and for a moment I thought Jericho injured his knee upon flying into the turnbuckle. I loved Daniel Bryan’s front dropkick on the outside to Sheamus, you could really feel the intensity in the run-up and impact.

- The Rock’s History Lesson #2 was enjoyable – “screw the kite, that man over there invented electricity!”

- Unfortunately the match between Big Show and The Miz was only about 1 minute. I love watching The Miz, and despite never usually calling for ‘turns’, I think Miz would be a natural face given his loud confidence and charisma. He done a good job to make Big Show’s WMD appear strong though and the little spin before falling flat looked good. With the show being so jam packed, it meant a slow motion replay wasn’t shown – quite like all other matches on Raw.

- I’m quite intrigued by the blossoming rivalry between Randy Orton and Kane. Randy is so good in the ring, so his athleticism and natural ability, combined with Kane’s experience could provide opportunity for some fairly good matches. Both characters have potential to be very extreme and sinister in their actions, so maybe Kane’s nature will bring out the worst in Randy’s character, e.g. the return of ‘The Punt’, anger issues and psychotic emotions. I’m quite optimistic about this one.

- As for the final segment, I think John Cena has surprised everyone. We all knew he was a natural on the mic, however he’s really holding his own against The Rock, and his confidence seems to be at an all-time high. This is the John Cena I’ve been hoping to see for a while now. Many argue for a simple heel turn, when it’s not really the best option I don’t think. Cena doesn’t need to ‘turn’, he just simply needs to develop his character and evolve in order to make things interesting and less predictable.

Sho

13-03-2012, 22:00

Good to see old school Cena.

WOrd Life

muscularmatt

14-03-2012, 01:35

I was expecting more though. I thought he was going to reappear throughout the show and spit more lyrics. The Rock concert was a million times funnier.

Haribo

14-03-2012, 13:14

Joel

14-03-2012, 13:19

Loved the Cleveland Rocks song. :lol:

Rap was decent, but We Will Rock You seemed so out of place at the end. As entertaining as it was, it didn't progress the feud at all. Should've ended with Cena coming out at the end and hitting Rock with the guitar or something.

Exactly. I don't get why they didn't have a confrontation at the end. Cena's rap was good, but Rock's concert was obviously the better of the two this week.

But come on, there were only three Raws left at that point, who is the genius who said don't let them interact with each other?

muscularmatt

14-03-2012, 15:43

Should've ended with Cena coming out at the end and hitting Rock with the guitar or something.

They've got to have somekind of physical interaction before the event surely? With there being only two Raws left until WM, will there be anything next week? And then somekind of big staredown to end the last one?

Hunter

15-03-2012, 11:04

My quick thoughts on Raw;

The opening rap segment with John Cena was very good I thought. Seeing his old attire, theme music and attitude was quite refreshing, and his rap hit the right notes as well.

The match between Sheamus and Dolph Ziggler was great, but that’s sort of expected since they’re both solid in the ring. I cringed a little when I seen Sheamus get flung into the announcer’s table, it was pretty brutal, which was obviously showcased by the huge scrape on Sheamus’s back. Plus, I like Dolph’s pink trunks, they are definitely unique and suit him perfectly.

Is it just me, or is Otunga looking even more ripped thesedays? He’s definitely doing well for himself, and on a similar note, seeing the development of the 12-man tag match for Wrestlemania was interesting. So it looks like we’ll have Kofi and Santino involved, as well as Mark Henry and David Otunga for now.

As for the feud between CM Punk and Chris Jericho, talk about an intense direction, I was ‘not’ expecting that from Jericho, so it definitely captivated me. I do like the idea of both of them claiming to be the best in the world though, it adds another dimension to the rivalry.

John Cena vs. Mark Henry next week? Bring it on. I’m intrigued to see whether they can provide a good match. The latter has had me entertained for many months now, but with Cena competing at Wrestlemania in a few weeks, let’s just all hope that he doesn’t get injured in some way.

Like Cena’s Thuganomics earlier in the show, seeing The Rock “in concert” was a welcome throwback, and no doubt better than just having Cena and Rock talking down a mic, dissing one another when the other isn’t even in the arena. “Cleveland Rocks” had me laughing for sure, so I’m definitely giving credit to Rocky for that, although as Haribo mentioned, the “We Will Rock You” song just seemed out of place and a little pointless. Overall though, it was still a great little segment.

muscularmatt

15-03-2012, 14:54

Yeah Jericho's angle at Punk was very good indeed, and he sold it well by seeming to be genuinely upset at what he said.

I've heard from a couple of sources that Vince has ordered anyone working with Cena to be super duper (dunno if his words) careful this month.

muscularmatt

20-03-2012, 17:34

CM Punk's openning was excellent. Sounded like he really meant it, and taking it to this personal level was exactly what this feud needed. LOLS @ him getting a wolf whistle when said he was 'naked' for the world.

Maria Menoupousos? Don't care. Miz's losing streak is probably leading to a face turn, like they did with MVP. And Shawn Michaels' troll face upon Taker saying that he's better than HHH.

Sho

20-03-2012, 21:11

Teddy is jokes.

muscularmatt

20-03-2012, 21:18

Yeah since when did good guys run away? I think Team Johnny's gonna win at 'mania, Teddy's run his course.

Hunter

23-03-2012, 12:45

My thoughts on Raw:

Jericho’s “however…your sister…” line was golden, and I really laughed out, it was brilliant. I forgot a little just how amazing Chris Jericho was I think. It’s probably due to my absence from WWE in recent years, so to finally see him back is really entertaining.

I’ve voiced before how much I love Cody Rhodes, and again, tonight, he didn’t disappoint. Those ‘shuffles’ he was doing before boxing had me in stitches. The hilarity continued when Santino made his appearance. Santino’s just so obviously a naturally side-splitting funny guy, and I can’t help but be entertained every time I see him.

Seeing Mark Henry back and fighting the cream of the crop again is really great. It seems the WWE and Henry hit a home run with him being inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame, as it gives his character even more credibility. Hopefully this real-life event sees Mark Henry head back up to the main event picture for the remainder of his career. He’s just such an absolute beast – he was throwing Cena around the ring – and out. It probably wasn’t the best idea alternatively to have John Cena in a match with Henry though, given attempting to lift the World’s Strongest Man could cause obvious injury!

On another note, am I the only one who’s a little confused as to what The Miz is doing right now? He seems to be stuck and definitely lacking direction. He needs a new lease of life, and I’ve mentioned several times before I think, and I have to agree with you Matt, I can see him being a natural face, and probably a lot better in that role than as a ‘bad guy’.

I thought the Tag match was quite entertaining, and R-Truth really jumped into the ring bursting with energy which undoubtedly elevated the match itself. Seeing Aksana and Vickie go at it was funny, complimented by Jerry Lawler’s commentary, he’s a natural in those situations! :lol:

muscularmatt

23-03-2012, 21:38

Miz is a pretty crap heel to be honest. I don't know what they haven't turned him already. But it's coming.

And you're right 'But your sister...' was pure gold. The collective 'Oooohhhh' from the crowd was priceless.

Ever since I found out that Lawler was a raging paedo, I can't help but be slightly put off by his lecherous commentary.

Sho

27-03-2012, 13:20

Christians injured again.

muscularmatt

27-03-2012, 22:57

Yeah shame, he deserves to be there.

The Santino v Otunga match/segment was terrible. The US Champion could have got an atleast semi-credible win over a guy that's done fuck all in the ring recently, but no they went for the bullshit finish.

They've obviously angled the promos to try and get more support for Cena, and it has worked a little. The crowd in Miami will still hate him though.

Joel

27-03-2012, 23:28

Yeah shame, he deserves to be there.

The Santino v Otunga match/segment was terrible. The US Champion could have got an atleast semi-credible win over a guy that's done fuck all in the ring recently, but no they went for the bullshit finish

Can't have Otunga nor Santino lose cleanly/easily due to them being the captains of their teams.

Otunga's posing is hilarious. There's been a lot of gay stuff in wrestling, but Otunga with the flag may have taken the cake.

They've obviously angled the promos to try and get more support for Cena, and it has worked a little. The crowd in Miami will still hate him though.

I loved the part where Rock told Cena he is no visitor. The tone in his voice made it really cool.

All in all, I haven't enjoyed the RTWM. Just don't think they've built it up really well and with the matches that are on the show, it's pretty shocking.

Sho

28-03-2012, 00:25

I'm loving team teddys mascot lol.

The way punk got switched, that was insane.

Haribo

03-04-2012, 10:07

Well, here comes the pain :excited:

What a monster pop.

Joel

03-04-2012, 18:12

Miami crowd was amazing at WM and Raw. Really helped the shows feel a lot better.

Sho

03-04-2012, 18:24

here comes the pain is back

muscularmatt

03-04-2012, 22:40

That was one of the best Raw crowds, possibly the best, I've ever seen. They booed all the shit faces, and cheered all the good heels. I fucking LOLd when YES! changed to SI! for Alberto Del Rio, absolute classic. Nice to see that people are really getting behind Daniel Bryan despite him being a heel atm, because he was fucking screwed. Let's hope WWE play on this reaction by turning D-Bry back face again quickly.

The Raw after Wrestlemania is always big, but this was a great episode. Really enjoyed it, as Joel said the the crowd being that into it always make you get into it more too. The F-5 was just the cherry on the cake.

Michu

03-04-2012, 22:52

The return of Albert has gone unmentioned. I'm wondering how far they can take his character, he's a natural heel but he still doesn't look like he has the gravitas to headline a PPV, in terms of the WWE he's a mid order heel who'll get squashed the first time he meets anyone credible. I can't understand why they insist on using Brodus as a face, he's a better heel than Albert and a better ring operator. Tsk, Vince. Meh.

muscularmatt

03-04-2012, 22:58

In terms of Lord Albert -

he's a mid order heel who'll get squashed the first time he meets anyone credible

This basically. They'll push him like he's the next big thing (seasonal pun) for a few months and then he'll get destroyed by Cena/Orton/Punk/maybe even someone shitter. It's a nice new gimmick for him, but he's alot older than Prince Albert/A-Train, and was never a great worker anyway. Expect him to be released again within 18 months.

Michu

03-04-2012, 23:08

He's a strange re-signing for me, aside from trying to cash in on his time in Japan, which by the way they are making out to be a lot more impressive than it was - he won multiple tag titles but was beaten in singles title shots - he's just a poor man's Kane and Bloom has nothing on Jacobs. Whatever next vince? Digging up Test (literally) and Trish Stratus to reform T&A?

muscularmatt

03-04-2012, 23:12

It wouldn't surprise me if he went on a massive losing streak and then turned face after being inspired by his dead pal. Then, he'd carry an urn of somekind with Test's ashes in it to the ring. Then they'll do a segment when some tattooed guy in a wheelchair pretends to be Droz and he makes him walk again.

Michu

03-04-2012, 23:17

Ha, speaking of strange re-signings, when's Finlay returning to the ring. Strikes me as being a low card entry on Smackdown!, also I hear there is talk to unifying the main belts again and centralizing the shows. Can only be bad news for the jobbing wrestlers like Hawkins, Riley et al. They need to take a leaf out of Sheamus' book and start training with a certain Paul Levasque and fronting bullying campaigns, that's one hell of a push strategy.

muscularmatt

03-04-2012, 23:20

I don't think he'll be wrestling, he'll just be a road agent or a trainer.

Daniel Bryan addresses the live crowd after Raw (http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/252533-video-daniel-bryan-addresses-the-live-crowd-after-raw)

There's video, but I didn't know how to embed it. If they don't turn D-Bry back face again soon, then cancer on them.

Joel

04-04-2012, 00:12

You don't get over in Japan if you're not a good wrestler, folks.

Albert went over there and really honed his skills. I'm thinking that will not be evident until he has a real match, rather than a squash though. I'm looking forward to seeing how well he has developed though.

Hunter

04-04-2012, 00:41

My thoughts on Raw:

The show really kicked off with a bang, and seeing The Rock open was a joy. Some will say that Rocky is using similar catchphrases and a very familiar style, but that’s a great thing in my opinion. He is pretty much The Rock we all know and love, and him really ‘evolving’ his character would be pointless given he’s not full-time, and you really need plenty of time for character development. So I think it’s fair to say Rock has been playing it somewhat safe, but it’s definitely for the best, and I’m down to enjoy the ride. I’m genuinely over the moon now that it seems like Rocky will be appearing more frequently, and hopefully he can really push for the WWE Championship – a vision I thought I’d never see again.

By the time the first match rolls around, it’s pretty obvious by now that this crowd is blowing the roof off of the arena, they were incredible. The Triple Threat match between Santino, Ziggler and Swagger was really enjoyable. The dynamic was of course unique, and Ziggler’s performance was as brilliant as ever, with his selling being marvellous to watch. For a crowd that probably deem themselves ‘hardcore’ fans, Santino reeled the crowd in with his natural charm and comedic timing as the match progressed, which was nice to see. Oh, and Funkasaurus’s headbutt to Ziggler on the entrance looked more beastly than Mason Ryan’s shoulders.

As far as Monday Night Raw shows go, this has to be one of the best I’ve seen in the past year or so. It was exceptional, and really elevated by the interaction from the crowd that added so many hilarious moments to the night. I’m a big fan of Mark Henry, so the Punk vs. Henry match was one I was looking forward to, and it didn’t disappoint. I know Punk has great respect for Henry, probably due to his time submission training with the Hart family, which may play a part. The “YES!” chants throughout were damn right golden and I was loving every second of the match, and even the finish was enjoyable with Mark Henry countering Punk’s trademark bulldog with the massive throw over the top rope. So following the match, has anyone else’s interest in the Punk/Jericho increased again? I’m interested in seeing where this goes, and how/when Punk will get his revenge.

The funniest moment of the night? It’s a tough one as Raw was side-splittingly funny throughout, but I might just give this accolade to the fans alteration to Daniel Bryan’s “YES!” chant during Alberto Del Rio’s promo; “SÍ!” :laugh:

As for Lord Tensai....I was not expecting Albert. Whatsoever. I'm intrigued though, and I'm more than happy to give him an chance. I love the uniqueness of the puff of powder being blown into the palm, and then used as some form of vice grip. It looked extremely cool, so providing we see some more Japanese-influenced moves in his style, I think I'll be happy to watch.

I'm still honestly in shock regarding the return of Brock Lesnar. I've just got finished watching the show about 30 minutes ago, and I have to agree with muscularmatt in that this is definitely one of the best Raw's I've seen in the past year or so - it was stacked from top to bottom with good solid matches, storyline development and some huge surprises to say the least.

Brilliant show.

BarnDoor

04-04-2012, 09:44

You don't get over in Japan if you're not a good wrestler, folks.

Probably true of their home-grown talent but definitely not of the larger Gaijins. Lets not forget, Giant Silva (of Oddities fame) was big at one point. Scott Norton was huge in Japan but he was very sloppy in the ring. Arguably the most famous foreigner, Stan Hansen, was not a particularly good wrestler. Same could be said of Bruiser Brody.

With the big guys from the US they generally appreciate stiffness and power moves. To be fair to Albert though he is, comparatively, a decent wrestler anyway. I think had Albert gone over 10 years earlier he would have struggled. He filled the void left by the absence/decline of Norton and Vader, among others.

Sho

04-04-2012, 10:06

Is that Tensai fella really albert?

BarnDoor

04-04-2012, 10:52

I just watched his match. I see with the 'headbutts' and elbows he's conveying an obviously stiff style associated with Puro.

Haribo

10-04-2012, 09:22

Well this is happening earlier than I expected.

Sho

10-04-2012, 13:19

Great start to this weeks Raw.

muscularmatt

10-04-2012, 23:10

Looks like Brock's going to be a heel then, not that it matters because all the non dumb marks will go nuts for him anyway. That segment was great though. Short on talk, but they did a really good job of making it look like a shoot fight.

When are they going to stop pushing that talentless fat shit Brodus Clay? The gimmick's funny, but he's a fucking dreadful worker. When the hell is that company going to realise that weight doesn't equal talent?

CM Punk showing us that he is the best in the world, on the mic atleast. That promo was absolute class. Obviously the world of pro wrestling is full of acting, most of which is laughably bad, but Punk showed that he is a very talented man. Jericho's a genius too, goes without saying.

I'm glad the Hogan impersonation got booed, I hate segments like that. Good chokeslam on the fat guy though!

shaun7

11-04-2012, 09:20

I actually like Brodus Clay. I my view he is good inside the ring at least. It's just that he hasn't really had a good feud so he can't show his in ring abilities. He may not be the best ever, but for a man his size, he's not bad at all.

As for CM Punk and Jericho. 2 of the best ever and that's saying something. Punk is a world class performer as he is decorated with everything including acting (for wwe), mic work and in ring work. Jericho is the same. That's why this feud is outstanding because we have 2 of the best ever doing what they do best.

Oh btw, that Kane segment was really funny. Way more funny than those stooges that's for sure. :laugh:

Brock vs Cena is good aswell. I hope they bring up their feud from back in the day (2003 or 2004). They had a decent feud back then. Brock is a very good performer and I like it that's he's back. And Cena? He does his part and in my eyes he's very good especially the way he does promos and intensifies the feud on the mic.

But all in all, I am looking forward to smackdown. I know it was a live show, but I couldn't watch it. I'll see it on friday. WWE is really looking good this year.

Hunter

13-04-2012, 11:22

Raw was excellent yet again and the opening segment between Cena and Brock was damn good viewing. I loved how they emphasised the first punch through the replays, it really sold the legitimacy of the feud, and hats off to Cena for taking it like a champ.

As for Lord Tensai, I really like him, his story and his entrance (the walk, the outfit and the music). You can tell that the WWE is stepping in the right direction with what seems to be Triple H's guidance. We've had some exciting new additions to the rosters, but not only that, it's the manner in which they were introduced that has provided great anticipation and mistique. The promotional vignettes have massively helped I feel, and it's definitely for the better of the WWE and its direction. From Kharma, Sin Cara, Mark Henry's reign of Hall of Pain, the return of masked Kane along with returns of Chris Jericho, The Rock and Brock Lesnar, the new vignettes with Lord Tensai, and now what appears to be a few potential breakthroughs on Smackdown with the likes of Ryback. We've witnessed a positive transitional period with the WWE, and I think it's been a good solid journey this past year, and I can only see 2012 being even greater if I'm honest.

Does anyone else feel like the WWE is slowly but surely achieving a better product, in as many aspects as possible? Take entrance themes for example, this past year or so, they have been personalised well I think, and cater to the Superstar's identities whereas prior, it seemed like generic modern rock songs were being used.

muscularmatt

14-04-2012, 02:46

Does anyone else feel like the WWE is slowly but surely achieving a better product, in as many aspects as possible? Take entrance themes for example, this past year or so, they have been personalised well I think, and cater to the Superstar's identities whereas prior, it seemed like generic modern rock songs were being used.

Yeah, I'd agree. 2010 was a horrible year for WWE, to the point that I almost got bored enough to stop watching. But in the past 9 - 12 monts, they've really turned things around. It seems like they are finally starting to recognise the 'smart mark' type of viewer, and are trying to cater to them a little bit more. There's a couple of cool songs about atm, but that can still improve imo.

Hunter

14-04-2012, 11:15

Yeah, I'd agree. 2010 was a horrible year for WWE, to the point that I almost got bored enough to stop watching. But in the past 9 - 12 monts, they've really turned things around. It seems like they are finally starting to recognise the 'smart mark' type of viewer, and are trying to cater to them a little bit more. There's a couple of cool songs about atm, but that can still improve imo.

I wouldn't even necessarily say that the reason the product has improved is because they're addressing the 'smart mark' crowd - I'm not really too bothered about certain phrases or information being used, I just like to see decent enough acting with emotion and an entertaining match. Sure, when the lines are blurred between reality and entertainment, it can be good viewing, but only in moderation otherwise the impact wears thin.

Another note about Lord Tensai too - he's going to break the ribs of his opponents one day with that ridiculously painful looking back splash. :shocking:

Michu

14-04-2012, 11:26

Another note about Lord Tensai too - he's going to break the ribs of his opponents one day with that ridiculously painful looking back splash. :shocking:

Glad not just me thinking that, a senton from a 300 pounder is simply unsafe.

When you consider moves like the Death Valley drop and Emerald Fusion are no longer in circulation due to how dangerous they are if executed incorrectly, it surprises me Bloom is allowed to perform senton's on physically smaller opponents.

Sho

16-04-2012, 12:52

Replayed MNR, and I have to admit that right hand by Brock specked things off. My question is he going to stick around or is he going to have a one off match and off to UFC ?

muscularmatt

16-04-2012, 15:07

He's signed for a year, but with limmited appearances it would seem. So don't expect him to be on Raw every week all year, but in and around the major PPVs probably.

He'll never go back to UFC. I don't think his health would allow it.

Sho

16-04-2012, 17:50

He'll never go back to UFC. I don't think his health would allow it.

Why? What's up? Isn't he on good health?

16-04-2012, 18:12

No.

muscularmatt

17-04-2012, 00:14

Had to have a piece of his large intestine removed because of diverticulitis (no I didn't know what that was before him either).

Sho

17-04-2012, 20:20

Good show last night at 02.

Johnny really dislikes Cena.

Definitely looking forward to Extreme Rules.

Hunter

27-04-2012, 11:58

I’m beginning to think that the feud between CM Punk and Chris Jericho needs to go a little bit further to increase the tension, or at least develop in some way, as we seem to have been stuck on the same chapter for the last few weeks. It’s still somewhat entertaining, but it needs to be moved along I feel. Fortunately the Jericho vs. Kofi Kingston match was quite good and I became more engrossed as the match progressed – the finish was very good too; the top rope Codebreaker was really excellent.

The field sobriety segment wasn’t bad, but did anyone notice, when Punk actually ‘completed’ the backwards alphabet test – he still got it wrong? :lol: He said “S, T” instead of “T, S” since he was reciting it backwards.

It was great to see Lord Tensai in action as well. Some may simply ‘see’ Albert, but I ‘see’ Lord Tensai. His moveset is very unique in today’s WWE, and combined with superb entrance music and attire, I’m really enjoying the whole character of Lord Tensai right now. How long will his reign – or momentum – last? I don’t really know, but I can’t see him sticking around for a lengthy period of time, so I’m just appreciative for a character with a bit of mystique at the moment. I think it’s a positive sign of development that the WWE is, and has been making for the past year or so. We’re seeing more interesting wrestlers, with more personalised theme musics, attires, mannerisms and movesets. It’s not a bad time to be a watcher of WWE I don’t think.

Why do we have Khali on our screens still? Every time I see him, he seems to be struggling to walk, let alone wrestle. It probably explains why he never actually does wrestle it seems. Take this week’s Raw episode for example, Khali merely stood on the ring apron and delivered a chop, that’s it. At least it was more than his contribution to Smackdown last week in which he didn’t even reach the ring!
So what do we think of the new team of Santino Marella and Zack Ryder? I honestly feel as though this could be great viewing. Santino is naturally funny and charismatic and Ryder’s still developing so I’m sure he can learn a lot under Santino actually – not to mention, they’ll just be good fun to watch as well.

I’m finding the Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena feud to be pretty interesting so far. It’s not as blatant as “I don’t like you”, “you don’t like me”. This rivalry seems to be a little more subtle than that, and funnily enough, there’s not been too many words spoken, yet that might be what is making this match up even more intriguing. The dynamic of the crowd for Raw seemed to be in John Cena’s favour more so than in the last year which is interesting in itself.

One thing’s for certain though – I’m looking forward to Extreme Rules this Sunday.

Haribo

01-05-2012, 09:31

Sounds like Raw was a good show (certainly eventful). Thought Over The Limit was going to be a throwaway PPV - like the last two years - but:

Punk/Bryan :excited:

Hopefully they get the main event and about 25 minutes. And BIG JOHNNY gets to destroy Cena.

Lesnar/Triple H at SummerSlam, anyone?

Sho

01-05-2012, 10:52

I hope Big Johnny sticks around as GM, rumours are flying he's going get fired by HHH (COO). Brock is on a rampage and Johnny has popped and D. Bryan vs. CM Punk at OTL. :w00t

Haribo

18-05-2012, 00:00

Raw is permanently switching to 3 hours starting July 23rd (the 1000th episode). :rock:

shaun7

18-05-2012, 09:34

^Yeah, I read that yesterday. It's awesome really because it goes to show you that WWE are doing great and have a strong run. Not to mention that if they pull it off, it can improve their business. I like that because WWE are the best entertainment on TV without a doubt.

Hunter

18-05-2012, 13:15

I've finally caught up with WWE shows. I've been behind by about a week or so, playing catch up. I've just finished watching Monday's Raw, which wasn't bad. Without going into unnecessary specifics, I've expressed my appreciation for Big Show before, and again, he doesn't disappoint. He's easily one of the top performers in the WWE, even today still. He moves very well for a big guy and can really jump about in matches. But what's probably more impressive, is his ability to really tell a story with the mic and how he's able to hit the right emotions at the right times. People can say that 'big men' are boring, but it's a little narrow-minded in my view as I quite like diversity when it comes to cards.

I was browsing on Wrestling Forum for the first time in weeks today and came aross a thread relating to the potential of Alberto Del Rio's character. It would probably be considered too risky for the WWE to follow through in it's current "PG Era", but it could provide some damn good entertainment; Alberto Del Rio, the drug lord. Now, of course it wouldn't be so blatent and blunt as that, but the idea revolved around the premise of Del Rio's wealth being amassed through relatively 'unknown, but likely evil' ways. How his wealth was accumulated could be left up to the imagination of the audience with some subtle 'hints' being mentioned occasionally by either the WWE or Del Rio himself.

Usually, when it comes to Wrestling Forum's site, I find it difficult to take anything said on there seriously, given there's a lot of nonsense and elitist attitudes floating around. However, this particular idea I thought was just so interesting, that I had to share it here. The possibilities for Del Rio's character then could be almost endless; intimidation, bribery, extortion, hired goons for security and beatdowns etc etc.

Right now, all we really know about Del Rio is that he is supposedly rich, and that he has a "destiny". That's about it really. There's never been an explanation as to how he amassed his wealth - not from what I can remember anyway - and the only way it's suggested that he's wealthy is from the cars he drives, that's it. Whereas with more information 'leaking' regarding how he possibly accrued such wealth, there could be so many new and importantly fascination directions in which his character can go.

Who wouldn't want to tune in to see such a controversial character? :cool:

muscularmatt

18-05-2012, 19:13

Alberto Del Rio, the drug lord. Now, of course it wouldn't be so blatent and blunt as that, but the idea revolved around the premise of Del Rio's wealth being amassed through relatively 'unknown, but likely evil' ways. How his wealth was accumulated could be left up to the imagination of the audience with some subtle 'hints' being mentioned occasionally by either the WWE or Del Rio himself.

Love it. Won't happen though.

Sho

20-05-2012, 14:01

"WWE is proud to celebrate this historic milestone with our partners at USA Network," WWE Chairman and CEO Vince McMahonsaid. “Our new three-hour Raw represents the next generation in interactive television where our fans won’t just watch the show, they will help create it.”

Starting with the historic 1,000th episode of Raw on July 23, The WWE Universe will have new ways to get involved in the show through WWE.com and social media by deciding matches, stipulations, Superstar development and more.

"The WWE Universe is one of the most socially active and passionate fan bases in all of television," Chris McCumber and Jeff Wachtel, co-presidents USA Network, said. "The powerful three-hour block of live TV truly makes USA the year-round destination for young male viewers on Monday nights."

Stay with WWE.com for more on this breaking news surrounding Monday Night Raw.

What do you think about Raw expanding to a three-hour show? Sound off now on Twitter using #3hourRAW.Can't wait.

muscularmatt

21-05-2012, 00:58

The fan interaction element will probably be wank though.

Hunter

07-06-2012, 23:57

Finally got round to watching Raw, here's my thoughts! Let me know what you're thinking too!

The Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler was really enjoyable, and Sheamus was getting a fairly positive response. Not to mention when Alberto Del Rio attacked Sheamus, the crowd really booed him quite loudly, which was finally a joy to hear.

Seeing Sin Cara is always a pleasure, so I welcome his matches most definitely. Let's just hope he can remain injury, and subsequently drug free and continue to put on high-flying and exciting matches. I really wish that the lights weren't so dim though now. But we saw a greater mix of punches just to control the pace of the match more which was pleasant, however I also feel that Sin Cara just definitely has to really crank the armbar upon landing his finishing move in order for it to appear truly spectacular - it's clear he's made a habit of it upon the manner in which he lands.

I'm also really enjoying Ryback. It's just utterly hilarious seeing him massacre opponents and flip them over more times than a deck of cards. I just can't get enough of it. I love how the commentary team almost always break character too solely to enjoy the comedy of it, and it really adds to the experience I feel - as if these opponents are being truly slaughtered. :lol:

Tensai... what to say? I'm not convinced I like the change. Tensai now feels almost just like any other 'Superstar' on the roster, whereas 'Lord Tensai' seemed more fearsome with a separate identity. Now, it's as if his differentiating character has been stripped back in an attempt to make him more generic. I feel like the WWE took a risk with the Lord Tensai character, and have really quickly pulled back without honestly giving it much time to gain momentum. If you're going to take a risk and make a bold statement, go all the way, don't just make half the journey because then it's probably much more doomed to fail, or at least feel underwhelming.

I honestly feel that John Cena is preventing the rise of other fellow Superstars - simply because his selling is so terrible, it then makes it difficult to take Cena's opponents seriously. Just how bad does that sound? John Cena made both The Rock and Lord Tensai in recent months look really quite unconvincing. The only opponent that springs to mind who's looked valid has been Brock Lesnar - and that was only because he literally knocked the absolute shit out of Cena on a serious front.

...on a lighter note anyway, I can't get enough of Mr. Laurinaitis right now. He is utterly hilarious bumbling everywhere on his little scooter, seemingly completely oblivious to the fact that the WWE Universe despises him. I can't help but burst out laughing everytime he's on screen. I think what radiates through the screen as well is just that he's having a blast, and it's contagious.

Also, it seems as if in his time away, Alberto Del Rio has bulked up a bit, which works well for him when attempting to portray a more aggressive streak - such as his actions against Sheamus this week, especially the signature armbar which looked seriously painful on the edge of the stage. Well played.

And finally, I can imagine the so called "purists", "elitists", or whatever you want to call them, probably whining about Kane being implemented into the CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan match at No Way Out. Me personally, I'm quite fascinated by this whole storyline with A.J. right at the heart. I think the manner in which the CM Punk vs. Kane matched played out on Raw was curiously interesting to say the least. Here we have the 'ex' Daniel Bryan, who upon leaving A.J. has continuously rubbed her face in it, while Punk has shunned her too, but through ignoring her as opposed to purposefully wanting to hurt her. Now, there is Kane, the sadastic red monster, of whom gave A.J. a peculiar glance following the match on this week's Raw. What I love about this story is the number of doors open, and the unpredictability surrounding it all - could she do the unthinkable, and be plotting all kinds of evil with Kane? The devil's reinterpretation of Bonnie and Clyde?

Michu

08-06-2012, 00:17

RE: Sheamus & Del Rio. Read this earlier this week, completely agree with it.

Sheamus still needs the kind of feud that challenges him as a babyface. He was attacked post-match by Alberto Del Rio, which didn't do much for me.

Alberto Del Rio isn't a believable threat to Sheamus' title, in my humble opinion.You don't catch a guy off guard and struggle to put him away, not if you're supposed to be legit.

By the way, very impressed with the new push for Nick Nemeth, looks like he's finally going to be given the chance - when they separate him for Vickie. In terms of putting others over he reminds me of Angle and the Rock in his delivery and attitude - there is certainly no Undertaker or Ultimate warrior no-sells.

He'd benefit from the light heavy weight belt being brought back, as would many others and if rumours are to be believed, the two championships belts are to be unified ... again. If so hopefully wider weight divisions ought to be introduced. But this is Vince, his favourite wrestling physique is beef cake.

Hunter

08-06-2012, 01:55

"Nick Nemeth"?

:willis:

I'm not sure I'd be too opposed to a title unification, but only if the Championship belt itself looks brilliant. If it's supposed to be the ultimate prize, having it look shit would be the worst possible scenario. Given the WWE's recent track record of title designs, I wouldn't be too hopeful, especially after seeing the leaked photo of the supposed new WWE title belt (I'll link it in the general WWE thread in a minute).

I don't think a Light Heavyweight title would be the way to go if I'm honest. That's what the Intercontinental title should be, the real stepping stone to greatness, or at the least; prestigious (I've never been a big fan of the US title for the record). The Intercontinental title seems to be clawing it's way back up, and has been doing so fairly gradually for a while.

I'd be much more enthusiastic to see a Cruiserweight Championship introduced - or reintroduced. Let's face it, the Intercontinental Championship 'should' be the stepping stone prior to the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships (or a potential unification). It's no secret that WWE Superstars aren't as muscular and bulked up as in previous decades - the same reason the World Heavyweight title was reduced in size anyway I believe, so it wouldn't look silly around the waists of the smaller Superstars of today. This just means there's a natural shift in talent's weight and size clearly, and a Cruiserweight Championship would cater to this. I think a Light Heavyweight title would be largely unnecessary, whereas a Cruiserweight title would add spice to what's often perceived as a wrestling company with a very formulaic and somewhat slow wrestling style.

There's really an abundance of WWE talent who seem to be struggling to break into their own, not because they don't have what it takes, but because the first step is the hardest - and with the way in which the WWE Championship ladder is set up, the 'first' title is the Intercontinental title, which is a huge leap from 'nothingness'. Some might argue I guess that the US title is the first title on the WWE ladder, which is reasonable given that upon WWE.com's newest redesign, they've updated their ladder to match this it seems. With that said, the US title is just terrible in my view, and while Superstars need a leg up, the US title isn't exactly a helpful leg up I don't believe. What is a "US" title? In fact, replacing it with the Cruiserweight title might be more beneficial than harmful. Which is exactly why I think the Cruiserweight title could potentially work wonders for the WWE in this day and age, particularly when it looks like they're gearing up in the near future for a product with a slightly more edgy approach.

Sho

12-06-2012, 13:47

Vinny got knock the fuck out haha. But tbh I'm pretty impressed by last nights show, it's been low past few weeks. All in all good show last night and can't wait Sundays No Way Out.

Haribo

13-06-2012, 00:41

Am I wrong for starting to think Bryan will win on Sunday?

I love AJ's adoration face. Fuck!

http://i.minus.com/i9KSnYGzBipm3.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5isnvln261qiwd8jo1_500 .png

I bet he so was tempted to grab.

And by the way, the mocking of JR is downright disgusting. I don't think anybody but Vince himself is OK with it.

shaun7

17-06-2012, 20:47

^The mocking of JR. The concept of WWE is entertainment. None of what is said in the ring is real so it doesn't really matter.

Michu

17-06-2012, 21:11

I think that little bwatty Andy might be onto something, a CM Punk vs Kane feud over the affections of AJ seems very likely. It is also something that requires him to be beltless (fnar). I think AJ and Kane would be a good pairing, certainly better than Kane and Tori were.

Bish

26-06-2012, 11:15

Looks like I'll be watching 3 minutes of this Raw. Vader, now Sid. Ah the good ol' days.

Sho

26-06-2012, 13:15

Although I dislike Vickie the couger, but enjoyed last nights show tbh. Oh before I forget it was good seeing Sid again.

BarnDoor

27-06-2012, 00:31

Vader and Sid coming back, showing everyone how it's done. Shame half the cunt crowd didn't know how Sid was, deserved a much huger pop. Yeah he's older in the face but the guy looks great and still looks quite mobile.

muscularmatt

27-06-2012, 01:35

Was really impressed with shape Sid was in considering he's nearly 52, which is like 92 in wrestler years. Also echo Barn's comments about the douchebag crowd not knowing who he was. Who'll be next week?

Joel

27-06-2012, 17:51

"You guys do not realize how much last night meant to me. It felt great. It was the greatest moment of my life. Thank you! #RAW"

"Everyone is asking if that was my last WWE appearance. I am not sure yet. I will keep you updated."

Hopefully it won't be the last we see of him.

BarnDoor

27-06-2012, 18:03

It's also painfully clear now that the WWE can't do shock appearances anymore. They fucked up that Jericho comeback beyond words. And now we have that cunt basically tip everyone off by claiming 'It's his time' (before Vader came out) and on Monday that 'he's the master and ruler of the world'.

Sid's in such great shape he deserved a proper comeback at a PPV, or at least somewhere like MSG where they'd know who he was and it'd create the stir he deserved. A Sid comeback deserved so much more than a low-key moment on Raw. Can you imagine if he came back at a PPV and powerbombed Cena after a main event? The place would go mental. We'd have to have Vladimir in the front row for full effect.

Michu

27-06-2012, 18:16

Sid's in such great shape he deserved a proper comeback at a PPV, or at least somewhere like MSG where they'd know who he was and it'd create the stir he deserved. A Sid comeback deserved so much more than a low-key moment on Raw. Can you imagine if he came back at a PPV and powerbombed Cena after a main event? The place would go mental. We'd have to have Vladimir in the front row for full effect.

Considering how badly he was injured from that turn buckle leaping Yakuza kick, it's a wonder he's still able to walk. I thought he looked in good shape, but alas he looked a little cumbersome in the ring at times, something about old wrestlers and clotheslines is utterly naff. Heath did a good job putting him over to be fair. It was good to see a good clean release on the Powerbomb as well, Vince has been reticent to see that move used on shows after Jacknife-gate.

Joel

27-06-2012, 18:19

BarnDoor

27-06-2012, 18:20

Thing is though Sid wouldn't even have to wrestle many matches; they could just have him as a bodyguard/destroyer type.

Christ I had no idea about that Joel.

Michu

27-06-2012, 18:23

Thing is though Sid wouldn't even have to wrestle many matches; they could just have him as a bodyguard/destroyer type.

Bit of an ego though, Sid. He's been in and out of the company because of it ... and who would you align him too? The roster is threadbare of decent heels that would benefit from Sid in their corner.

Joel

27-06-2012, 18:26

Dolph would have been a decent match (person who he would have been a bodyguard to), but he is likely to turn face now.

Agreed that they should try to use Sid for more than this. Still has that big presence and in a lot better shape than Nash who got a lot of air time last year.

BarnDoor

27-06-2012, 18:44

As long as they don't give him a mic he'll be fine.

I imagine whatever ego Sid had Sminky has long gone. I mean it's been over eleven years since he's been in the ring in a major company. He sounded pretty humbled by his appearance the other night.

I believe his son is getting into wrestling. Perhaps there could be some kind of role there? Problem is he can't exactly act as a mouthpiece for him.

Joel

27-06-2012, 18:55

On your first Royal Rumble 1992 watch, did anyone thing "what a cunt" when Hogan pulled Sid over the top rope?

The crowd marked for Sid eliminating Hogan, btw.

Michu

27-06-2012, 19:00

On your first Royal Rumble 1992 watch, did anyone thing "what a cunt" when Hogan pulled Sid over the top rope?

The crowd marked for Sid eliminating Hogan, btw.

Ha, Sid was marked as Hogan's 'replacement', he had the opportunity to dominate the brand but ballsed it up for himself. In some ways it was a good thing, certainly for Shawn Michaels who got himself an uber push.

BarnDoor

27-06-2012, 19:46

Some great stuff after though. Who can forget 'And to you Hulk Hogan - I sincerely apologize' and Sid (wrongly) pre-empting the announcement of the main event at the WM8 press conference?

Michu

27-06-2012, 19:52

BarnDoor

27-06-2012, 20:13

To be honest Royal Rumble 1992 was all about Flair. One of the greatest performances in wrestling history. Magnificent. One of Bobby's most memorable nights on commentary as well.

Bish

27-06-2012, 23:07

Some great stuff after though. Who can forget 'And to you Hulk Hogan - I sincerely apologize' and Sid (wrongly) pre-empting the announcement of the main event at the WM8 press conference?

"Justice, was not served!!!".

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Royal Rumble 1992 will never, ever be matched. From the action and story in the ring, to what we were hearing from Monsoon but mostly Heenan. Just perfection. Speaking of Sid, his elimination of Sgt.Slaughter in that Rumble is one of my all time favourites.

Also, I don't think he was all bad on the mic. I mean, apart from forgetting/mixing his lines, he spoke in a way that further enhanced his character. The recorded promos were still good viewing.

Sho

03-07-2012, 13:44

That crazy chick got even crazier tbh. I got a feeling she will try to screw Punk in the MITB ppv. Another week another Great monday night raw. Good seeing ddp as well.

BarnDoor

03-07-2012, 14:00

DDP looks terrific for a man of 55; that yoga is clearly doing a lot for him.

Though I felt they missed a trick again. Taking a cue from the famous Randy Savage vs. La Parka match, what they should of done was have DDP dressed as Doink. For most of the match he gets squashed, but then he pulls out a Diamond Cutter, gets the win and pulls of the mask.

Also allowed everyone to see the RKO for what it is - a really shit Diamond Cutter.

Joel

03-07-2012, 15:17

DDP stands, Orton jumps. They both have different execution styles.

And would you really like DDP to be dressed as a clown on his return?

Sho

03-07-2012, 15:20

[QUOTE=BarnDoor;1941128

Also allowed everyone to see the RKO for what it is - a really shit Diamond Cutter.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. :lol:

BarnDoor

03-07-2012, 15:23

DDP stands, Orton jumps. They both have different execution styles.

And would you really like DDP to be dressed as a clown on his return?

Obviously the technique is different (i.e. worse) but it's the move most obviously similar. The basic point is, the diamond cutter is a much better impact move, and therefore a more effective finisher.

I don't see why not, given that it's just a two-minute cameo. I think it would have been more effective, and an ode to the famous La Parka moment. Again, the surprise element is there. When that happened on Nitro, the place went nuts. Different time and audience fine, but the impact would have been similar. It doesn't make sense him coming out after the match and just giving him the diamond cutter.

On another note - was I the only one who wanted evil Doink music?

Joel

03-07-2012, 15:31

Obviously the technique is different (i.e. worse) but it's the move most obviously similar. The basic point is, the diamond cutter is a much better impact move, and therefore a more effective finisher.

The Diamond Cutter may look more impactful, but the RKO has been sold as a move that can happen out of no where. The Diamond Cutter takes longer to execute so it wouldn't make sense for Orton trying to replicate it frame by frame.

I don't see why not, given that it's just a two-minute cameo. I think it would have been more effective, and an ode to the famous La Parka moment. Again, the surprise element is there. When that happened on Nitro, the place went nuts. Different time and audience fine, but the impact would have been similar. It doesn't make sense him coming out after the match and just giving him the diamond cutter.

Not sure if it would have worked with Doink though, as he wears make up and not a mask. I guess maybe we still wouldn't know it was DDP though. I dunno.

On another note - was I the only one who wanted evil Doink music?

No, no. Face Doink was fine, thank you very much.

BarnDoor

03-07-2012, 15:35

Joel

03-07-2012, 15:49

A) The Diamond Cutter, along with the DDT, is one of the most 'out-of-nowhere' move I can think of. In many matches it came out of nowhere. Not sure how you can get the idea that it was more telegraphed. Has your mind been that saturated by this current bullshit? Bear in mind also Orton often does that shit thing where he gets on all fours and lets you know he's planning on doing it.

DDP always has that moment where he holds your head for a second or two. Rarely does he execute the Diamond Cutter in one motion. The RKO is done in one go. I never said it was worse or better. Just slightly different.

My mind hasn't been saturated by the current product. I just don't have any need to go out of my way to bash it as yourself and Bish do.

B) They could have used a clown mask rather than make-up on this occasion.

Ok.

C) Evil Doink was clearly better. The way the music went from nice to evil was the only thing good about him.

I was scared of clowns when I was a kid, so used to leave the room when Doink wrestled. It was worse when he was heel, hence my stance.

Bish

03-07-2012, 16:32

Evil Doink (Matt Borne) was class. Much more interesting to watch, plus he could wrestle. Once he left and Doink turned face, it was just a pointless gimmick.

BarnDoor

03-07-2012, 18:18

Joel I will end the conversation by just saying the RKO is shit. I don't remember any diamond cutters turning out like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSsvjcYET18

Joel

03-07-2012, 18:26

Would you say the modified Diamond Cutter to Guerrero is the best one ever?

Haribo

12-07-2012, 21:54

I saw a lot of comments about Monday's Raw being the "worst ever", and as usual I thought they were just going overboard. But having seen it, I can confirm it is worse than anything WCW did in 2000.

Joel

12-07-2012, 22:13

It was terrible. Writers were definitely high when booking that "show".

Hunter

13-07-2012, 19:22

DDP always has that moment where he holds your head for a second or two. Rarely does he execute the Diamond Cutter in one motion. The RKO is done in one go. I never said it was worse or better. Just slightly different.

My mind hasn't been saturated by the current product. I just don't have any need to go out of my way to bash it as yourself and Bish do.

Agreed.

I also don't mind the extra-elevation at times, the hang time can look quite cool in moments.

Finished watching Raw this morning. I personally didn't think it was "the worst ever", that to me is ridiculous. I definitely enjoyed the opening 20 minutes with the AJ/CM Punk/Daniel Bryan scenario, and there was even a decent match or two during the night. Hardly "worst ever", or even close to be honest.

No one else on here into the AJ storyline then?

Michu

13-07-2012, 19:43

Bish

13-07-2012, 19:58

I did enjoy the AJ storyline when Kane was involved, but now I've lost interest as it meanders on. I've noticed the fans are getting slightly a bored with the mic time, as I have. Not really feeling the buzz.

I do wonder how much mileage AJ realistically has as wrestler in her own right after this storyline ends.

Also, unquestionably the Diamond Cutter is a better move than the RKO. The RKO just looks ... daft. The execution of the Diamond Cutter is so much better than a daft one handed RKO. I am old and I have spoken. Children behave.

Testify. RKO only looks good as a catching move, as in an opponent jumping from the top rope and driving him down.

Also, anyone seen the new shit list WWE.com have going? The 50 best Raw matches ever. Guess who's at number 1? Ahead of Perfect-Flair, Bret-123 Kid, oh of course.

Sho

13-07-2012, 23:05

It was terrible. Writers were definitely high when booking that "show".

Coułdnt agree more.

Joel

14-07-2012, 01:08

Hunter

14-07-2012, 02:55

If DDP did the RKO, Barn and Bish would have said it was the better version. If someone like Hogan or Sid did the Worm, it'd be the best finisher in history. That's why you have to take what they say when it comes to old product vs current product with a pinch of salt. Barn will cuss me, but it is what it is :celebrate:

I'm sure I remember Barn even saying he doesn't bother watching WWE thesedays...

Good position to provide an overall perspective, and make comparisons. :aha:

The AJ/Bryan/Punk angle has jumped the shark now. And it's killing the credibility of the WWE title. If it even has any. It's made to look second rate compared to AJ.

I can understand why you'd think the WWE title is becoming quite secondary in the feud, and in some ways it is... for now. Maybe, it could be the most important aspect within the feud though, depending upon AJ's actions as special referee and how the story continues to unfold. We just don't quite know yet - and isn't that a really lovely thing again? Unpredictability. Having AJ propose to Punk, followed by Bryan proposing to AJ caught me completely off guard, and that's what I love, the unpredictability, but also that it makes 'sense' (given the character's frames of minds currently).

Interesting stuff in my opinion.

BarnDoor

14-07-2012, 11:00

Right on cue - the defender of all modern WWE bullshit. As I've said time and time again that's because it's shit Hunter, and I'm not the sort of sap willing to watch something when it's long been that way. Read this line back to yourself:

Having AJ propose to Punk, followed by Bryan proposing to AJ caught me completely off guard, and that's what I love, the unpredictability, but also that it makes 'sense' (given the character's frames of minds currently).

It's clear our ideas and expectations of what constitutes good wrestling and wrestling storylines differ tremendously when you 'love' this sort of garbage.

And I'm not judging the entire current product - I've seen enough of the RKO to know it's a poor man's Diamond Cutter.

I expect better from you Joel. Just think about what you said and take it back immediately. I don't like everything about classic wrestling, and certainly not every finisher. As for The Worm, well, that's shit whoever does it.

Bish

14-07-2012, 12:32

Don't be stupid Joel. A finisher isn't judged on what wrestler/era it's from. Look at Petey Williams. Was wrestling in TNA pretty recently, uncomparable to the glory years of wrestling, yet he has/had one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Just have to listen to the pop and anticipation of the crowd beforehand when he performed it, just like Jake's DDT, DDP's Diamond Cutter etc.

At the same time, there's plenty of old school wrestlers who had shocking finishers, even compared to today's product.

BarnDoor

14-07-2012, 12:49

Bish

14-07-2012, 13:11

Bushwhackers for example - shit cunts and shit finisher. Hacksaw Jim Duggan - shit cunt and shit finisher. Now I didn't particularly the Beverley Brothers, but their Head Spike finisher was fantastic. I seek out their matches with jobbers on Challenge and Superstars just to see if anyone may have died.

I was literally gonna list them as examples too. I did like the Beverlys though.

Akeem. Loved that gimmick with his shitty hand dancing, yet had a boring finisher.

BarnDoor

14-07-2012, 13:15

True but I loved Akeem, and his clothesline on Michaels at WMV was terrific:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVVTx1BI0a4&feature=related

Michaels sells it brilliantly to be fair to him.

Bish

14-07-2012, 13:17

Ventura's comment made it even better.

Sho

17-07-2012, 13:20

Well, the usos are actually Rikiashi's kids. And are we gonna see Austin in next weeks 1000 Raw? Do it Vince, we need the toughest S. o. B.

Sho

23-07-2012, 21:11

Who's gonna be watching tonights 1000 Raw?

Dont forget Raw will be 3 hours from now on.

Joel

24-07-2012, 01:12

Sorry Barn, but I'm MARKING already :excited:

Road Dogg, Billy Gunn and X-Pac :excited:

BarnDoor

24-07-2012, 08:47

Sean Mooney of all people. Looks alright considering.

Joel

24-07-2012, 10:37

I thought he was dead for some reason.

BarnDoor

24-07-2012, 10:42

I think we all did. They should have dug up Lord Alfred Hayes as well.

Bish

24-07-2012, 11:20

Todd Pettengill should've attacked him backstage.

I heard Steve Blackman was supposed to appear but didn't. Not acceptable.

BarnDoor

24-07-2012, 11:23

It is because Blackman was shit. The only good thing he did was knock out Bradshaw - I'd love to have seen that.

Sho

24-07-2012, 17:05

All of DX reunites, surprise guests, Rock returns, Undertaker and Kane Unite, Stephanie returns, and a shocking ending.. best RAW episode ever.. even better than Wrestlemania..

DippoinTed really no Austin.

BarnDoor

24-07-2012, 17:39

Sho

24-07-2012, 19:17

“Stone Cold” Steve Austin Comments On Not Appearing On 1000th RAW
The following blog was posted on Stone Cold’s official website:

RAW 1,000 And Why Stone Cold Steve Austin Wasn’t There

On July 23, 2012 WWE celebrated the 1,oooth episode of Monday Night Raw. I watched the show from my home in Los Angeles. After watching the show, I got on my Twitter account, @steveaustinBSR, to read responses to the show. There were many people blaming Vince McMahon and the WWE for not having SCSA on the show. And there were some folks who had some very negative things to say about me, personally.

The reason I did not attend RAW 1,000 was because I underwent a major knee surgery on my left knee on July 2, 2012. Dr. Neal ElAttrache of the Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles, CA performed the surgery.

The surgery was a complete success. I am currently three weeks post op. I began physical therapy a few days ago. I had a world class surgeon and a great medical team working on me. I am now working with a top notch PT team. I am still on crutches and will probably lose the crutches in another week. Then I will be in a custom knee brace much like the braces I wore in the ring for 9-12 weeks.

STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN IS A 100% ASS KICKING MACHINE. There was no way I was going to limp down the ramp on crutches for RAW 1,000. It was time to get my knee fixed. The decision to no-show RAW 1,000 was made by me and no one else. I have always taken pride in making my shots and have never faked an injury or illness. Pro Wrestling is a tough game and it was time to pay the piper for some of the damage I incurred in the ring. No gripes. No complaints.

To the fans that were hoping to see SCSA, I’m sorry I missed the show. I would have loved to be there under different circumstances. I normally keep my personal business to myself, but due to feedback and incorrect speculation, I have posted this blog and given the 411 on why I was not at RAW 1,000.

I will post more blogs about my PT and recovery soon.

Steve Austin

Sho

31-07-2012, 17:20

Gotta admit good debut by AJ as a GM well done. In other news Orton is back! I want a heel Orton tho. Oh before I forget lil jimmys ok & Y2J and Christian make a good tag team. #Raw

Michu

07-08-2012, 20:43

Cena, the tedium is numbing.

muscularmatt

08-08-2012, 03:13

At least this month the title match will be the main event!

Oh, wait...

muscularmatt

17-08-2012, 00:31

Who else thinks AJ being GM is a complete abortion? Almost making me switch to Smackdown, SUCCCCCKAAAAAAA

Joel

17-08-2012, 00:59

Yeah, that's not working well imo either.

Hunter

17-08-2012, 10:29

It's nice to see the wrestlers lower down in the pecking order being given more of a chance on Raw now that it's a 3-hour show.

Anyway, I'm loving how the WWE are handling Ryback. His momentum is gaining week after week, and the WWE Universe are really starting to get behind him now. His character; from being half man, half machine is excellent I think, along with the instantly recognisable and unique entrance theme. To top it off, his in-ring mannerisms match his character and the part he plays, ultimately making for a solidly developed character with decent potential. Let's not forget the entertaining phrases either; "Feed me more!" and most recently "my turn!", the former becoming a huge fan favourite right now. Hats off to Ryback and the WWE right now. They're taking their time with him, and seemingly allowing his character to mould, so that the WWE Universe can connect with him, and it is evidently working.

We were also treated to Y2J vs. Ziggler vs. The Miz on Raw, which was a great match. It's probably even a PPV-worthy Triple Threat match to be honest, but I'm not going to complain and whinge. The match itself was really well paced I thought, with the excitement gradually building towards the end as the fans became really invested in the finale of the match.

Regarding Brock Lesnar - he just has to win at SummerSlam. I usually don't like to be pessimistic when it comes to the WWE, and instead just focus primarily upon the positives because after all it's merely entertainment for my spare time - but if HHH were to beat Brock Lesnar, it would just kill off any level of 'threat' that Lesnar could pose in the future. I guess it's understandable for me to feel a little uneasy regarding this match given HHH's track record of diving into 'hot' storylines or potential matches for his own personal gain. We've seen this very recently despite being partly-retired, during "the summer of Punk" last year, along with Kevin Nash, and I'm sure there'll be another recent example as well.

It would be beneficial I think if WWE were to replay aspects of footage from Lesnar's previous match against John Cena, just as a reminder to everyone, as to how brutal, and how much of a thread Brock Lesnar really is. It may help hype the upcoming SummerSlam match even more so as well providing we've heard the lines about 'how it's a fight, not a match' etc.

Michu

17-08-2012, 10:43

The Ryback character isn't working, only jobbers are prepared to wrestle him because the top order know he will hurt them. He has such a brutal impact style he's been declined matches and ultimately feuds, wrestlers don't trust him not to hurt them. They wanted to put Orton in the ring with Ryback, Orton didn't want a sniff of it.

Joel

17-08-2012, 10:48

Don't know where you read that they wanted to put Orton in the ring with Ryback, but that's a load of bull.

Orton's one of their top guys. Ryback is a guy they are building up. They are both faces. Easy to detect when the dirtsheets don't have much news to report on.

Don't like Ryback one bit, myself. He seems to be getting over though.

Hunter

17-08-2012, 11:05

I've never understood why people read 'dirtsheets' and such things. The same goes for when you see a TV guide in a shop which advertises what will happen on the upcoming soap shows. It baffles me as to why people entertain these curiosities that can ultimately affect their entertainment of the show itself due to backstage politics and rumours lingering within their mind.

The Ryback character isn't working

If the fans connect with the character, it's working. Given the gradual increase in response from the WWE Universe, and the quite obvious strong support from the fans this Raw, I'd say the Ryback character is working well. Another plus point being, he actually has a character too.

On another note, I'm quite intrigued to see how Wade Barrett will return given the recent vignette. I could never connect with him before, for some reason, I just didn't feel he was 'threatening' enough I guess. Sure, Michael Cole can talk about his bare-knuckle fighting all match long, but if Barrett doesn't even utilise this arsenal, what character does he have? I understand Big Show has the "WMD", but maybe, it'd have been wiser for someone like Wade Barrett to use a finisher that capitalises upon his background, thus making his character more believable, and therefore solid.

muscularmatt

17-08-2012, 11:17

Ryback's working okay, it's just he's going to stall very soon if they don't put him into a program with a real wrestler.

Can't wait for Barrett to come back. He needs to put straight into a big feud with a main eventer.

And Brock has to go over at SS.

Michu

17-08-2012, 11:22

Don't know where you read that they wanted to put Orton in the ring with Ryback, but that's a load of bull.

I got it from a retired indy circuit Wrestler.

Vince is struggling to get the Ryback character off the ground because no one credible wants to wrestle him, they don't want to get hurt. Its fairly common knowledge in Wrestling circles.

The Orton vs Ryback was for later this year ... but Randy ... he say ... no way.

muscularmatt

17-08-2012, 12:44

You're both right in the sense that the character is working now, i.e. crowds are digging him and he's doing a good job of what he's doing. However, I can't see how they are going to take him to the next level.

EDIT - Expect to see him get crushed by Cena/Orton in the next six months

muscularmatt

29-08-2012, 01:15

During HHH's promo, I was all like WHATEVER but when he said

"Thank you for letting me play the game"

it got me. Just the little wobble in his voice, could really tell it was emotional. He'll probably retire at mania this coming year.

BarnDoor

29-08-2012, 08:56

You faggot Matt. Sounds like some sort of equivalent to the wretched 'I' lost my smile'.

muscularmatt

29-08-2012, 13:07

It was almost as fagular as that, but not quite because HHH has nowhere near as much charisma as Shawn Michaels.

shaun7

29-08-2012, 14:47

I have been enjoying Raw lately, but the thing I can' get is WHY in the world are WWE trying there ass off to make Cm Punk get boos and John Cena get cheers in his hometown? I mean the last Raw was a bit too much. Not because it doesn't fit Cm Punk or Cm Punk can' be a heel like that. But because after how long he's been champion, I feel like the controversial Cm Punk from before this Monday's Raw would have worked better than a heel one. And then there's also the fact that's it's extremely evident what WWE wants to achieve at Night Of Champions. A reverse of what pushed Cm PUNK LAST YEAR and it's in Cena's hometown aswell. Maybe a role reversed from last year.

But regardless of this, Cm Punk and Cena is very entertaining mostly because before Monday's Raw, I couldn't ell what Cm Punk was gonna do and that was great.

Anyway, the therapy sessions were funny and I am really liking them alot.

And also, HHH didn't say he's gonna retire so far ;)

muscularmatt

29-08-2012, 14:55

Tbh, I prefer this CM Punk to the crappy, suck up babyface CM Punk of the past six months. He got as over as he is now by being edgy and interesting, and that had totally disappeared, so a change in direction was needed I think.

Joel

29-08-2012, 14:56

They try to get us to cheer for Cena all the time. Nothing new here.

muscularmatt

29-08-2012, 15:10

What do we think of AJ as GM then? Was her attacking Vickie on Raw the start of a future endeavour angle? I hope so.

shaun7

29-08-2012, 15:37

They try to get us to cheer for Cena all the time. Nothing new here.

Yeah and that's what's so annoying.

Matt. Yeah I also prefer this Cm Punk to the babyface Cm Punk because he's very interesting. I also said this, however I would have preferred a controversial Cm Punk rather than a complete heel Cm Punk. That's what I'm saying. A heel Cm Punk wouldn't get the crowd reaction behind his message, but a controversial one would and that's why the pipe bombs of last year worked so well, because he was neither a heel nor a face.

muscularmatt

29-08-2012, 15:49

I know what you mean, second half of last year it looked like they were starting to blur the line between faces and heels with some characters. I thought this might continue, in an effort to modernise the dynamic of the drama of pro wrestling a little bit. Ah well, nevermind.

Baddar

29-08-2012, 20:30

Yeah and that's what's so annoying.

Matt. Yeah I also prefer this Cm Punk to the babyface Cm Punk because he's very interesting. I also said this, however I would have preferred a controversial Cm Punk rather than a complete heel Cm Punk. That's what I'm saying. A heel Cm Punk wouldn't get the crowd reaction behind his message, but a controversial one would and that's why the pipe bombs of last year worked so well, because he was neither a heel nor a face.

To be fair though, the only reason Punk went all controversial was so that they could turn him face. He was pandering to the fans without making it too obvious, always coming out with the "cool" things, saying what most fans were thinking. It was bound to get him a positive reaction. That, coupled with the title match in Chicago, where he was undoubtedly going to be playing the face regardless.

I like Punk's heel turn. I don't think they've done it purely because NoC is in Boston, and WWE will want as much of the crowd behind Cena as possible, just like they knew Chicago would be behind Punk a year ago, but it's definitely one of the reasons.