View Full Version : Pro Evo 2012 vs FIFA 12
Gareth_84
09-08-2011, 12:48
Pro Evo fans show your support in numbers!!
http://www.t3.com/feature/poll-fifa-12-vs-pes-2012-which-will-be-better
Bredazuid
09-08-2011, 15:06
Can we win something like a car?
Can we win something like a car?
looool!! are u kidding dude!! :ninja:
supafly03
09-08-2011, 18:29
I've voted for PES 2012.
Though, thanks to all the work of the magazines, the licenses etc. I doubt it will be very close and Fifa will win it, just because it's EA and most people buy sports games of this company.
sydney2008
09-08-2011, 20:30
PES 2012 will win this year , and many FIFA fans will become a pes fans , that is due to PES Gameplay and AI this year , FIFA is still having the same engine as last year , i saw their videos and it`s still the same as FIFA 11 , with a slight changes , even it`s a very huge changes in FIFA fan`s eyes , and it`s boring to watch .
When PES fix thier online and animations , plus the wonderful Gameplay that we have this year , FIFA fans will be back to PES and that is something won`t be denied .
PES needs to find and hire the best programmers in the world for a better animations and dribbling system , no matter how much they can cost the company , besides they need to market thier game in a wide range of countries and start to convince EA website fan boys that this game will be better in the future , and better than FIFA
FIFA is really starting to watch PES with more respect this year and they are afraid to lose this year and the upcoming years . because the real fight begins . :)
Bredazuid
09-08-2011, 21:46
I think you can only judge after playing both games for at least 50 hours.. The games are not even released yet..
you dont even need to play pes 12 to understand it's better than fifa this year, unless they only have taken steps backwards since pes 11.
Think about this.. If the previous pes's which was sort of ''off form'', was able to give fifa which is ''on form'' a fight, and make many people claim it was better than fifa (the sort of people that aint blind fanboys). Then imagine when pes hits its form, which it does 50% this year, and 100% if they focus on animations and all that next year.
I have played all fifas, 09 was very nice for its time, and it still feels more fun than the new ones imo, but they are just too soul-less and untactical and full of exploits. The only cool moments in fifa i have had, is the ones where i was able to pull of some amazing tactical teamwork stuff which rarely happens cuz it's such a stupid shallow game.
Despite the poor efforts from konami in the past, i still want to give them a big thanks for not giving me only one option (to buy fifa) if i want a football game.
Poor PES>>>>>> Good Fifa
roblucci
10-08-2011, 17:40
I think next year is time for Seabass and Co. to hire some great computer programmers from European countries to improve the quality of gaming animation.It seems they have struggled so hard since moving to NG console game development just to deliver proper football movement on screen.
OnlyProEvo
10-08-2011, 18:38
PES will never win in that pole, just because so many more people play FIFA.
Even if PES is the better game, FIFA will trump.
Pointless. :(
... I still voted btw!
FutebolArte
10-08-2011, 19:05
poles r for mo's to sit on....
FIFA has improved a lot since next gen and is a good game, however it lacks many of the fundamentals that pes offers and I find EA's gameplay very one dimensional. As an offline game fifa also offers very little. PES 2011 irritates the fuck out of me at times yet it brought back the feeling(to some extent) of the last gen games and kept me playing.
For me the decision is simple, if konami build on pes 2011 I wont touch fifa. I can understand why the mainstream prefers fifa, but PES is the better sim from my own point of view.
Looking forward to trying fifa 12, but I think EA have hit a brick wall in some regards and I cant see me playing it for more than a couple of days, fifa 12 is very much a game aimed at the online market while PES aims to incorporate both demographics, konami also have the advantage of always having decent offline modes, fifa's CM is average at best and your always waiting for a hideous bug to rear its head.
I voted for Fifa 12!
....and I am not surprised to see that they are leading too.
At this point only an idiot would vote for PES against...........well any game to date, not only Fifa.
I have depleted all my hopes for PES. The lack of effort by Konami and Seabass is unacceptable.
I really enjoy playing Fifa although it still has it problems too, but i also appreciate the fact that they are now #1 in a race where they trailed PES for many years.
There is no doubt in my mind that Fifa is improving and continues to. PES on the other hand seems to be grasping at air.
Their biggest plus is promising changes every year that suckers us fans in. But the promises falls flat and we are left waiting for a miracle the next year.
I have said before....any developer that fails to fix online issues deserves a kick in the teeth. No online .....no game....its 2011 Seabass not 2007. Who the fuck wants to play PES 5 or 6 because PES 2011 is shit. Certainly not me!
Seabass/PES is a dead fish in the water.
Wake up you fucking noobs!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. :blush:
peace
Neox9114
11-08-2011, 07:30
OCKRASS if you dont like the game then PES off this forum. I really think that the only way to judge the games will be playing them hands on, which ever you enjoy best and makes you get that feeling of satisfaction after a goal, that's the one you want.
Why do the PES haters on this forum always have the same Chelsea logo? :S
sydney2008
11-08-2011, 11:55
Why do the PES haters on this forum always have the same Chelsea logo? :S
LOL , i have a Chelsea logo but i love PES :)
Okay you're an exception then :) but seriously it always seems to be them :L
I'm buying both anyways, and I can definitely see PES being better this year. I enjoyed last years game and thought it was just as good as FIFA 12, to be honest. With the exception of the lack of movement by the players on PES 11, but they've sorted that out in PES 12 so looking forward to it a hell of a lot.
muscularmatt
11-08-2011, 12:58
PES will never win in that pole, just because so many more people play FIFA.
Even if PES is the better game, FIFA will trump.
Pointless. :(
... I still voted btw!
This, sadly. FIFA has never provided a realistic representation of the sport. Yes, it was fun back in 1999 when my cousin and I were enjoying 6-5 thrillers in every match and LOLing as we ended each game with 8 players each, but the truth is EA never made the step into modern and realistic games. They just kept the instant action, pass pass shoot goal mentality.
I know there's plenty of people that prefer FIFA, but in short no offence meant (well...) but you're all morons. If you prefer an arcade game where players can sprint at 40 miles an hour and hit 70 mile an hour drives into the top corner pretty much every time they shoot, then that's fine. But I want realism, and PES is the only franchise that's really delivered it on mass.
This, sadly. FIFA has never provided a realistic representation of the sport. Yes, it was fun back in 1999 when my cousin and I were enjoying 6-5 thrillers in every match and LOLing as we ended each game with 8 players each, but the truth is EA never made the step into modern and realistic games. They just kept the instant action, pass pass shoot goal mentality.
I know there's plenty of people that prefer FIFA, but in short no offence meant (well...) but you're all morons. If you prefer an arcade game where players can sprint at 40 miles an hour and hit 70 mile an hour drives into the top corner pretty much every time they shoot, then that's fine. But I want realism, and PES is the only franchise that's really delivered it on mass.
What franchise would that be ??
Cause Titus Bramble catching up to Messi is not realistic. Neither is Adriano runing past a whole team, sprinting at 40 miles an hour and hitting a 70 mph drive into the top corner pretty much everytime he shot
both have their faults neither are realistic
muzza798
11-08-2011, 15:19
I voted for Fifa 12!
....and I am not surprised to see that they are leading too.
At this point only an idiot would vote for PES against...........well any game to date, not only Fifa.
I have depleted all my hopes for PES. The lack of effort by Konami and Seabass is unacceptable.
I really enjoy playing Fifa although it still has it problems too, but i also appreciate the fact that they are now #1 in a race where they trailed PES for many years.
There is no doubt in my mind that Fifa is improving and continues to. PES on the other hand seems to be grasping at air.
Their biggest plus is promising changes every year that suckers us fans in. But the promises falls flat and we are left waiting for a miracle the next year.
I have said before....any developer that fails to fix online issues deserves a kick in the teeth. No online .....no game....its 2011 Seabass not 2007. Who the fuck wants to play PES 5 or 6 because PES 2011 is shit. Certainly not me!
Seabass/PES is a dead fish in the water.
Wake up you fucking noobs!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. :blush:
peace
If you couldnt play fifa online im pretty sure you wouldn't be loving fifa so much. I asked myself the same thing and fifa is only an online game or human v human in the same room.
muscularmatt
11-08-2011, 15:30
both have their faults neither are realistic
Yeah of course, neither are perfect. But PES, compared to FIFA, has always offered a much more realistic overall experience. Look at PES 4 compared to FIFA 2005. Look at the old ISS Pro Evolution games compared to FIFA 2000/2001. Look at the past couple of years' comparisons. You'd have to be an imbecile to not see it.
sydney2008
11-08-2011, 16:13
Yeah of course, neither are perfect. But PES, compared to FIFA, has always offered a much more realistic overall experience. Look at PES 4 compared to FIFA 2005. Look at the old ISS Pro Evolution games compared to FIFA 2000/2001. Look at the past couple of years' comparisons. You'd have to be an imbecile to not see it.
Well said C M PUNK :)
roblucci
11-08-2011, 19:24
PES has football video gaming brain like Seabass who pioneered nearly realistic and logic football gameplay on video game while FIFA has David Rutter who was also PES fan and trying to imitate PES gameplay in FIFA since 2007.I remember that there was no pressure button in FIFA like in PES 1 before FIFA 2005 was released.
I just hope konami dont make PES to much like fifa, ie players being ultra responsive(not realistic) and not taking weight and momentum into consideration, this is something PES does well and fifa fails at.
I did enjoy fifa between 2007 and 2011(when PES was almost unplayable) I then came to the realisation its as shallow as it always has been. PES makes me think football whereas with fifa I use my gaming brain, its all about angles especially when you master fifa's all manual play which flatters to deceive after a while.
Dont get me started on fifa's none existent player individuality and poor tactical play.
Yeah of course, neither are perfect. But PES, compared to FIFA, has always offered a much more realistic overall experience. Look at PES 4 compared to FIFA 2005. Look at the old ISS Pro Evolution games compared to FIFA 2000/2001. Look at the past couple of years' comparisons. You'd have to be an imbecile to not see it.
lets talk about the recent games where this is reversed. I seem to be able to remember buying Arda Turan in 2008 and beating the entire team with him on the hardest difficulty in PES. This use to be true but FIFA certainly plays more realisticly now and if your still comparing it to the 1999 fifa when you was clearly not playing football how it is meant to be played (ie having 6-5 thrillers and finishing with 8 men) then maybe you hsould try FIFA 11 for an extended period.
I think alot of it is how people play, FIFA is a better representation with some major exploits that make people ruin it. I prefer to play football games like arsenal and try score that perfect goals, after all there only games, others seem to get more enjoyment out of running down the wing and cutting back for a tap in, ala FIFA
as for the above comment on fifas lack of individuality, this is true, they are way too gimmicky and i cant stand the guy (rutter?) whose too busy selling these gimmicks to fix up the game. they did seem to think that by giving C ronaldo and Robben and Messi their own running animation people would be fooled into thinking players were individually represnted, but PES is no better on this
I bought PES 2011 last year and played it twice, whereas i've played Fifa for the past year.
Fifa 2012 for me unless and theres drastic improvement in PES 2012.
muzza798
13-08-2011, 22:49
I bought PES 2011 last year and played it twice, whereas i've played Fifa for the past year.
Fifa 2012 for me unless and theres drastic improvement in PES 2012.
Same but i think Pes WILL see a drastic improvement
If the lag in Master League Online is not fixed there is no reason to buy Pes 2012.
It is what is addictive and it fails to be smooth miserably. The first thing I want to know when this game comes out is if they limit players with crappy connections from playing online.
But I'm sure the Japanese will be too worried about making money to do such thing, making MLO a miserable experience for all who live in civilized countries. So I think I'll skip buying soccer games until world's internet infrastructure improves lol...
futsal4lyfe
14-08-2011, 16:08
I voted for fifa. I switched from pes 11 to fifa 11 this year and found fifa to be a much more complete experience, especially with some of the gameplay/ai mods. I don't play a whole lot online. Both games look promising, but I think FIFA has a better base to build off of. Either way, I look forward to trying out the demos.
Same but i think Pes WILL see a drastic improvement
But we've been waiting 5 years for this 'drastic improvement' and it still hasn't happened :unsure:
OldFirmBlue
14-08-2011, 22:54
I had totally forgot about this place!
Browsing through the forums though, I can't believe that some people rate PES better than FIFA. It surely must be for sentimental reasons only?
I never thought I would have seen the day when I picked FIFA over PES but I was converted back in 2008 when FIFA brought out the Euro 2008 game and haven't looked back since. PES is just now so poor, it's unplayable and all the things I used to love about it now mean nothing to me as it's just so, so bad compared to FIFA.
muscularmatt
14-08-2011, 23:34
...then maybe you hsould try FIFA 11 for an extended period.
Perhaps I should, I've downloaded the demo on PSN every year since I've had a PS3, but always thought it was wank.
Browsing through the forums though, I can't believe that some people rate PES better than FIFA. It surely must be for sentimental reasons only?
Nope, I genuinely think it's the far superior game. In the past couple of years, there's been a noticable swing back towards FIFA, and I really really don't get it.
I had totally forgot about this place!
Browsing through the forums though, I can't believe that some people rate PES better than FIFA. It surely must be for sentimental reasons only?
I never thought I would have seen the day when I picked FIFA over PES but I was converted back in 2008 when FIFA brought out the Euro 2008 game and haven't looked back since. PES is just now so poor, it's unplayable and all the things I used to love about it now mean nothing to me as it's just so, so bad compared to FIFA.
Have you played pes 11? That's where Pes started it again.
I converted to fifa in 09, because pes was so arcade. BUT, fifa 11 and pes 11 changed it again.
Fifa 11 is a pressure trash game where strong players dominate and the game revolves around strength and physical attributes only. Pathetic if you ask me because technique doesn't come into play and player individuality apart from the physical stuff and speed is so minimal that every team plays the same and scores the same goals. The list could go on forever (bugs in manager mode are too much). I actually bought fifa 11 first before Pes because I had faith in fifa delivering and pes failing, but I was wrong about pes 11.
Pes 11 may have animation issues and other annoyances, BUT it plays a much better tactical game of football, where player individuality and the way you use your players is the key to success. Everything is more balanced and when you get used to seeing poorer animations, the game becomes enjoyable and is actually a good representation of real football.
loosifer
15-08-2011, 08:55
woww...that good
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MikeyM24
15-08-2011, 12:16
PES is more attractive because Konami actually treat their customers as humans. I was really impressed with the way they address bugs and flaws, especially as when they updated the Ireland kit, got it wrong and fixed it a day later.
EA see the customer as not important once they've spent the money. FIFA11 had glaring bugs, but EA chose instead to release a premium pack. And it looks like with "season ticket" their MO has not changed.
Konami's customer relations p*ss all over EA's. And I will need to play FIFA12 extensively before purchasing as the demo of 11 was far superior than what they released.
Having said that, PES is a very good game, and PES12 is looking better.
sydney2008
15-08-2011, 12:35
PES is more attractive because Konami actually treat their customers as humans. I was really impressed with the way they address bugs and flaws, especially as when they updated the Ireland kit, got it wrong and fixed it a day later.
EA see the customer as not important once they've spent the money. FIFA11 had glaring bugs, but EA chose instead to release a premium pack. And it looks like with "season ticket" their MO has not changed.
Konami's customer relations p*ss all over EA's. And I will need to play FIFA12 extensively before purchasing as the demo of 11 was far superior than what they released.
Having said that, PES is a very good game, and PES12 is looking better.
You are right , and i can add that PES is better because it has the SOUL of FOOTBALL , which EA lacks to recognize or to have that matter .
I had totally forgot about this place!
Browsing through the forums though, I can't believe that some people rate PES better than FIFA. It surely must be for sentimental reasons only?
I never thought I would have seen the day when I picked FIFA over PES but I was converted back in 2008 when FIFA brought out the Euro 2008 game and haven't looked back since. PES is just now so poor, it's unplayable and all the things I used to love about it now mean nothing to me as it's just so, so bad compared to FIFA.
Sup OldFirmBlue,
I do not think it is for sentimental reasons.
I have been back every year about this time to track Konami's progress and what I find that there are a lot on new comers (noobs) here who has just started to play PES...but claim they have been for a long time.
I judge their responses by looking at the date they joined this site.
This basically tells who are or were PES fans compared to who just joined the band wagon.
Both you and I joined this site in 2004, and both of us now enjoy Fifa over PES. Go figure.
Their is no doubt in my mind that PES is garbage today....and i don't care if these new "noob wagonists" don't like it. Very few of them here has played as many games as i have on PES.
Peace
OCKRASS if you dont like the game then PES off this forum. I really think that the only way to judge the games will be playing them hands on, which ever you enjoy best and makes you get that feeling of satisfaction after a goal, that's the one you want.
Sup Neo,
I can't get off the forum, i like it. It offers me a medium to share my recent disgust with the PES series.
The thread was about Fifa or PES and i chose Fifa ....why is that a problem.
You even contradict yourself by stating..."which ever you enjoy best and makes you get that feeling of satisfaction after a goal, that's the one you want.."...and for me that is now Fifa.
Furthermore, I have been on this site 5 years before you discovered it...why should i be the one to leave?
Blasted noob :w00t
If you couldnt play fifa online im pretty sure you wouldn't be loving fifa so much. I asked myself the same thing and fifa is only an online game or human v human in the same room.
:shocking:
Let me get this straight! Are you saying that Fifa is only good for Online and Human vs Human games (in the same room)
Well Muzza, if that's all that Fifa does... it is still two things more than PES.
another noob :no:
you dont even need to play pes 12 to understand it's better than fifa this year, unless they only have taken steps backwards since pes 11.
Really!:unsure:
Think about this.. If the previous pes's which was sort of ''off form'', was able to give fifa which is ''on form'' a fight, and make many people claim it was better than fifa (the sort of people that aint blind fanboys). Then imagine when pes hits its form, which it does 50% this year, and 100% if they focus on animations and all that next year.
aahhmm.....WHAT! What are you saying here? :no:
I have played all fifas, 09 was very nice for its time, and it still feels more fun than the new ones imo, but they are just too soul-less and untactical and full of exploits. The only cool moments in fifa i have had, is the ones where i was able to pull of some amazing tactical teamwork stuff which rarely happens cuz it's such a stupid shallow game.
Do you understand the term contradiciton? :(
Jeesaaaas just listen to this noobster....:crymore:....:w00t ha ha ha ha
Cesc Fabregas
16-08-2011, 05:30
Um, the triple post was uncalled for...
supafly03
16-08-2011, 05:50
I bought PES 2011 last year and played it twice, whereas i've played Fifa for the past year.
Fifa 2012 for me unless and theres drastic improvement in PES 2012.
For me it's pretty much the other way around.
I've tried(very hard) to play and like Fifa, but I just couldn't as this pass, pass, shoot system without any freedom(you'll have a guy in your face every time you'll get the ball) just doesn't suits me and isn't realistic.
Of course there are lot's of duels and tackling in today's game, but it's still not realistic that guys run at at this pace for 90 minutes and that there isn't any time/space to create something other then the typical pass, pass, pass, shoot goals of Fifa.
Also, the spacing in Fifa isn't all that great IMO, as the pitch feels like it's a little too small.
PES certainly has it's flaws and isn't perfect at all(think about the goalies etc.) but I still take this over Fifa.
sydney2008
16-08-2011, 12:28
For me it's pretty much the other way around.
I've tried(very hard) to play and like Fifa, but I just couldn't as this pass, pass, shoot system without any freedom(you'll have a guy in your face every time you'll get the ball) just doesn't suits me and isn't realistic.
Of course there are lot's of duels and tackling in today's game, but it's still not realistic that guys run at at this pace for 90 minutes and that there isn't any time/space to create something other then the typical pass, pass, pass, shoot goals of Fifa.
Also, the spacing in Fifa isn't all that great IMO, as the pitch feels like it's a little too small.
PES certainly has it's flaws and isn't perfect at all(think about the goalies etc.) but I still take this over Fifa.
I was in the same situation as you were playing FIFA for long time after the feeling that PES 2011 was unplayable for sometimes ,
I`ve tried playing FIFA for more than 7 months in a row , and believe me , the gameplay sucks , i used to play with many teams , and against hundreds of players there for online mode , because offline mode is so awful for trying to get some enjoyment as you find in PES offline , whatever FIFA fans say that the gameplay is enjoyable , it`s just a joke for me ( for online and offline modes ) , the whole teams that i have played against , they all played the same way , they start the game , play to defenders , defenders change their direction , so when you go with where they are , they go to the other way , then the only option is to pass to a wing , then the wing pass to the other wing on the same line forward , and that happens after they change directions , then after , you find your team without defenders and against 3 attackers , you even can`t defend right or come back from the center to defend your team , then the opponent score a goal , i was doing that also while playing because there was no other options ,
and always in midfield just one player and the other one is so far away from the other mid , and also , always there is a center forward ( CF ) in the offside area and always caught there , that`s what FIFA is all about , we only play FIFA because the realistic movements and the 360 dribbling system ,not because a gameplay , because there is no real gameplay there , and i hope that FIFA fan boys don`t say that they have all licenses , because all players in FIFA are the same , same on the pitch and same for playing , i even can`t notice who has the ball at the moment i play with , even with messi , and even FIFA wrote any words on players shirts , you can`t notice it , because you look for babies are playing , very small players and even you see a player with your eyes , you can`t notice what`s on his shirt , that is why it`s a joke that FIFA fans are so happy with licenses :) , if PES has that is the right way , with a polish gameplay and a huge animation system , believe me , the game will be over for ( the other game ) . :)
MikeyM24
16-08-2011, 21:11
You are right , and i can add that PES is better because it has the SOUL of FOOTBALL , which EA lacks to recognize or to have that matter .
It's funny, I was playing a really scrappy match the other night on PES11. But it just felt "right" and was so engrossing. I've not had that from a FIFA game for a very long time.
FIFA is 100mph pinball football. PES allows you to vary the pace, stroke the ball around and then when the time is right, hit the afterburners. I've never seen FIFA play like that, it's "hollywood football" more than anything. Pes actually attempts to convey the other side of the game, perhaps in real life the less attractive side. But sometimes a scrappy 1-0 win nicked in PES is all the more satisfying because of this.
PES' on pitch presentation (reaction shots, sub scenes and celebrations) is streets ahead of FIFA as well, it's these touches that bring the "broadcast" feel to life.
Shame they can't fix the commentary though!
I... we only play FIFA because the realistic movements and the 360 dribbling system ,not because a gameplay , because there is no real gameplay there , a
Sup Sydney,
I am not telling anyone to chose Fifa over PES, I am just saying that i have.
It is perfectly fine with me if you prefer PES over Fifa ...i did one time too. My point is just ppl shouldn't hate because i am liking the game that they don't ...we all can't like the same things in life or rather gaming.
To argue on one of your point, if Fifa has realistic movement and 360 dribbling how can there be no "real gameplay"?
Although we don't like to admit it, the fact is that alot of PES players like myself like Fifa because of it's basic improvements. PES is still a very robotic game. The players movement looks horrible, the ball movement looks horrible the passing is maybe Ok but overall the game is just shit.
A handful of us are still hanging on to memories ...but it is time to let go. Who the hell wants to go back to PES 6 in 2011? Who the hell wants to have to download correct names for players year after year? Who the hell wants to download kits year after year? Who the hell wants to buy a game in 2011-2012 that is not playable online? Who the hell wants PS2 movements on a next gen console? Who the fucking hell ...?
Not me anymore!
Fifa is hands down the best football game on the market today. EA has taken a broken game and made it better...better than PES. It still has its problems like all games ..but it is football not soccer.
Seabass has admitted that Fifa is better ..........why can't we?
peace
Sup Sydney,
I am not telling anyone to chose Fifa over PES, I am just saying that i have.
It is perfectly fine with me if you prefer PES over Fifa ...i did one time too. My point is just ppl shouldn't hate because i am liking the game that they don't ...we all can't like the same things in life or rather gaming.
To argue on one of your point, if Fifa has realistic movement and 360 dribbling how can there be no "real gameplay"?
Although we don't like to admit it, the fact is that alot of PES players like myself like Fifa because of it's basic improvements. PES is still a very robotic game. The players movement looks horrible, the ball movement looks horrible the passing is maybe Ok but overall the game is just shit.
A handful of us are still hanging on to memories ...but it is time to let go. Who the hell wants to go back to PES 6 in 2011? Who the hell wants to have to download correct names for players year after year? Who the hell wants to download kits year after year? Who the hell wants to buy a game in 2011-2012 that is not playable online? Who the hell wants PS2 movements on a next gen console? Who the fucking hell ...?
Not me anymore!
Fifa is hands down the best football game on the market today. EA has taken a broken game and made it better...better than PES. It still has its problems like all games ..but it is football not soccer.
Seabass has admitted that Fifa is better ..........why can't we?
peace
As an offline game I prefer PES much more than fifa why is that so hard to understand, whats all this "we bullshit", your patronising is almost embarrassing, you almost border on fifa fanboy.
I played fifa for 4 years from 2007 to 2011 when pes was a next gen embarrassment, its a good game but very average as a football sim unless online play and fancy animations are what attracts you.
Discussing fifa and pes bores me shitless these days, but there seems to be a new age of smug cretins(okrass) who cant get there head out there arse long enough to see not everybody gets a hard on over fifa 11.
Discussing fifa and pes bores me pooless these days,... .
So why do you continue to mate?
You sound like a total arse clown.
peace
muzza798
18-08-2011, 00:39
Now i believe pes plays more fluidly than fifa.
No football game ive ever seen has looked and played better than in that france germany vid. nothing
Pes has me sold this year. Fifa will provide some cheap entertainment with friends but, as has always been the case, pes is there for the long haul
muscularmatt
18-08-2011, 01:17
Listen, you can call me a fanboy or an arse clown or Wendy the magic Armadillo surfer, but one fact remains. FIFA is gay and crap. If you like it, then you probably had something to do with 9/11.
Is that the sort of person we want to be associating with..?
StringerBell
18-08-2011, 02:19
You guys are all mistaken. Pure Futbol by Ubisoft is the best.
muscularmatt
18-08-2011, 03:10
Actua Soccer was always a fave, too.
So why do you continue to mate?
peace
Couldn't help it to be honest, especially when I see an idiotic fifa fanboy.
Loved This Is Football, Had a very fun college mode were you could play at like 16-18's level, and the best diving ever and a button to freely perform two footed lunges in the air! :')
koutoufides
23-08-2011, 10:35
alrighty , im a fifa player since i can remember , & am bout to jump ship :shocking:
have never played a single PES game :unsure::ohmy::shocking:
only play offline (98% anyway) and am loving the footage so far! looks like alot of work has gone into this years game ?
anyways will be downloading demo first thing tommorow ? (PS3)
btw -> most fifa fans will jump ship too after fifa 12 CM shites itself again !
cheers
BostonGoals
23-08-2011, 14:44
I'm more of an offline player meself so I've always preferred PES, as FIFA offline is awful, plus I always felt the gameplay in FIFA was a bit empty and unrewarding.
I think we may well see some fans come back to PES this year as it looks like Konami has finally got it right, and the FIFA series peaked at 08/09 and I dont think the last few iterations have matched them.
pro also peaked at Pro 6 and the last iterations have not matched that either
Pes 6 is overrated. Pes 5 was better and pes 11 in my eyes was a pretty close match when you consider everything.
sydney2008
24-08-2011, 16:52
I think PES 2012 will be the best ever until next year . :)
Karim.pes
25-08-2011, 08:34
Pes is the besT !!!!
Karim.pes
25-08-2011, 08:35
+1
PESFan92
26-08-2011, 15:44
FIFA vs PES has been going on for years and years. At the end of the day it comes to down to opinion. People who say "
PES2012 will be shit. The demo is shit. The videos on youtube on FIFA 12 look much much better".
Fact is, none of the games are out yet and you can't go by what you have seen on youtube. ANYONE can make a youtube video and make it look good. For example: You can make any player in any league in the world look good by picking out their best moments and implement them in a video. Its the same with video games. You haven't played the finished article yet, so you can't say its shit until you play it.
Konami only released this first demo to see where they at the moment. The second demo, im sure will be the final demo before the game is released. You can't judge the demo vs the actual game. Sure its going to be buggy but no game out there is perfect.
I haven't played the demo, because I'm suffering like every other 360 user. In my opinion, FIFA 11 gets very, very boring. I can't play an entire season on FIFA Manager Mode, I really can't. Its a very good game don't get me wrong, I like playign it every now and then, I play it with mates online and generally have a right laugh on there but in terms of playing it in the long run, I can't.
PES 2011, has alot of flaws, goalkeepers are poor, defenders are poor, movement is poor. For some reason it STILL finds a way to lead me back to playing it. ML is great, I like playing it and I can play that season after season and not get bored. Become a Legend is great I can play that and get bored.
There's still that one thing that leads me back to playing PES. It might be how poor the game is, or how your losing 1-0 and you score a last minute goal to draw the game and sometimes the excitement that runs through your body after scoring a goal or a winning goal. There's always something that draws you back in to playing the game, no matter how bad it is. PES hasn't been the same since the PS2 days.
I will buy PES because I do every year along with FIFA. I play both and I like both but I play PES more because I prefer the ML rather than Manager Mode. And I play FIFA because I prefer playing it with my mates online rather than PES online.
Oh and those looking at my username, please bear in mind when I joined this site and how good PES was back then, If i had the chance to change my username I would because I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan anymore I would consider myself as a neutral.
Nemisiskidd
26-08-2011, 15:47
FIFA vs PES has been going on for years and years. At the end of the day it comes to down to opinion. People who say "
PES2012 will be shit. The demo is shit. The videos on youtube on FIFA 12 look much much better".
Fact is, none of the games are out yet. Konami only released this first demo to see where they at the moment. The second demo, im sure will be the final demo before the game is released. You can't judge the demo vs the actual game. Sure its going to be buggy but no game out there is perfect.
I haven't played the demo, because I'm suffering like every other 360 user. In my opinion, FIFA 11 gets very, very boring. I can't play an entire season on FIFA Manager Mode, I really can't. Its a very good game don't get me wrong, I like playign it every now and then, I play it with mates online and generally have a right laugh on there but in terms of playing it in the long run, I can't.
PES 2011, has alot of flaws, goalkeepers are poor, defenders are poor, movement is poor. For some reason it STILL finds a way to lead me back to playing it. ML is great, I like playing it and I can play that season after season and not get bored. Become a Legend is great I can play that and get bored.
There's still that one thing that leads me back to playing PES. It might be how poor the game is, or how your losing 1-0 and you score a last minute goal to draw the game and sometimes the excitement that runs through your body after scoring a goal or a winning goal. There's always something that draws you back in to playing the game, no matter how bad it is. PES hasn't been the same since the PS2 days.
I will buy PES because I do every year along with FIFA. I play both and I like both but I play PES more because I prefer the ML rather than Manager Mode. And I play FIFA because I prefer playing it with my mates online rather than PES online.
Oh and those looking at my username, please bear in mind when I joined this site and how good PES was back then, If i had the chance to change my username I would because I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan anymore I would consider myself as a neutral.
the demo isnt perfect but do not judge by videos.
as for the above comment on fifas lack of individuality, this is true, they are way too gimmicky and i cant stand the guy (rutter?) whose too busy selling these gimmicks to fix up the game. they did seem to think that by giving C ronaldo and Robben and Messi their own running animation people would be fooled into thinking players were individually represnted, but PES is no better on this
this year there will be personality+ on the PC version, everything in xbox and PS3 will be on PC.
PESFan92
26-08-2011, 16:07
the demo isnt perfect but do not judge by videos.
The first point you have highlighted was a quote and wasn't me saying it directly. The other point I was illustrating was the fact that I haven't played the demo so I can't comment on it but other people who also haven't played it and all they have seen are videos, dont judge by what videos you have seen.
Although we don't like to admit it, the fact is that alot of PES players like myself like Fifa because of it's basic improvements. PES is still a very robotic game. The players movement looks horrible, the ball movement looks horrible the passing is maybe Ok but overall the game is just shit.
i couldn't agree more with the above.
I am still laughing my arse off on how low Konami has taken its fans this year .....and funny enough, nobody has noticed it.
Because of the poor standard of the PES series over the past couple of years, dedicated fans have been stooping so low in order grasp terms of how fucking poor the title has become. Excuses after excuses, not from Konami but its fans..."Pes will be better next year.."
This year Konami as released a "Demo of the Demo" ....and fans have not realized how shitty this is. This means that all the problems that we are experiencing now will be overlooked because we are expecting it to be fixed in the upcoming Demo...get it :shocking:
This after a whole year in production. ......REALLY? :w00t
How fucking retarded! :blush:
Well, knowing how Konami works, I can safely predict that the game "Demo of the Demo" that they released will be in fact very close to the final game. About 98% in my prediction.
PES 2012 sucks balls....just awful..period :realmad:
From a distance the game looks like a bunch of cockroaches running wildly up and down, back and forth in different uniforms. They never seem to tire. :angry:
Horrid:no:
^You know what's also funny.
EA marketing Fifa 12's improved Personality + WHEN PERSONALITY + DIDN'T EXIST IN FIFA 11 in the first place.
They are also going for eye candy stuff like impact engine. Things like these blind people because of the initial wow factor, BUT THEY WON'T FIX the core issues like the retarded pressure and the FACT THAT STRENGTH is the determining factor.
Seriously, both games aren't up to standard to what the ps3 is able to offer.
formula1man
27-08-2011, 07:31
I am undecided which game I prefer. I like FIFA because of the licenses, the ease of play (friends can pick it up quickly), the slickness. However I find FIFA a little too slick and fake, it doesnt feel like real football.
PES is good because of the Champions League, and it plays like real football and it just has that niche feel. It isnt overloaded with features or leagues no one cares about. it has a really good atmosphere that FIFA is missing. with FIFA every game feels the same and every tournament feels the same. However PES is very robotic and feels clunky. also the lack of licenced EPL and Bundesliga is a killer for me as these are the two leagues I watch.
So I am really torn between the two games. but this PES demo feels quite good, i like it, but ill keep my preorder for FIFA for now, it comes out first too.
Despite all it's flaws pes still has that magic.
I agree with the above about Fifas management mode. It's so boring.
After buying every PES since ISS I switched to FIFA in 09 after pes became unplayable foe me. At first FIFA looked great but for all it's bells and whistles it still lacks that certain something. But after 3 months I switched back to pes. When I score a goal I feel nothing yet in Pes I'm jumping round the room (and I'm 36!).
My son prefers FIFA and I prefer pes. I find FIFA excellent online but the master league is a 1000x better than manager mode.
Each to their own but I still prefer pes despite the flaws and despite every year the game not being as good as it should be and Konami bullshitting us that pes is back.
Pes hasn't been pes since 3,4,5 & 6.
PESFan92
27-08-2011, 15:13
Despite all it's flaws pes still has that magic.
I agree with the above about Fifas management mode. It's so boring.
After buying every PES since ISS I switched to FIFA in 09 after pes became unplayable foe me. At first FIFA looked great but for all it's bells and whistles it still lacks that certain something. But after 3 months I switched back to pes. When I score a goal I feel nothing yet in Pes I'm jumping round the room (and I'm 36!).
My son prefers FIFA and I prefer pes. I find FIFA excellent online but the master league is a 1000x better than manager mode.
Each to their own but I still prefer pes despite the flaws and despite every year the game not being as good as it should be and Konami bullshitting us that pes is back.
Pes hasn't been pes since 3,4,5 & 6.
Agree there. Just last night I was playing a ML and when you can grind out 1-0 results scoring that winning goal just makes it that much more special. I then started my Manager Mode on FIFA 11 and I won a match 3-2 but I didn't feel no emotion. Konami, have one thing for sure and thats to find a away to make people come back to PES no matter how bad it is.
Nemisiskidd
27-08-2011, 15:36
The first point you have highlighted was a quote and wasn't me saying it directly. The other point I was illustrating was the fact that I haven't played the demo so I can't comment on it but other people who also haven't played it and all they have seen are videos, dont judge by what videos you have seen.
sorry about that i didnt see the quote in inverted commas, but u r spot on about ppl making an early judgement even though both games havnt been released.
I don't like in FIFA the way they cut away from the keeper and ball in net very quickly after a goal so you can do a stupid celebration.
Each to their own I suppose.
formula1man
27-08-2011, 18:50
I find FIFA is a very Premier League style of football while PES is more of a spanish/south american style of football.
PESFan92
27-08-2011, 20:02
I am still laughing my arse off on how low Konami has taken its fans this year .....and funny enough, nobody has noticed it.
Because of the poor standard of the PES series over the past couple of years, dedicated fans have been stooping so low in order grasp terms of how fucking poor the title has become. Excuses after excuses, not from Konami but its fans..."Pes will be better next year.."
This year Konami as released a "Demo of the Demo" ....and fans have not realized how shitty this is. This means that all the problems that we are experiencing now will be overlooked because we are expecting it to be fixed in the upcoming Demo...get it :shocking:
This after a whole year in production. ......REALLY? :w00t
How fucking retarded! :blush:
Well, knowing how Konami works, I can safely predict that the game "Demo of the Demo" that they released will be in fact very close to the final game. About 98% in my prediction.
PES 2012 sucks balls....just awful..period :realmad:
From a distance the game looks like a bunch of cockroaches running wildly up and down, back and forth in different uniforms. They never seem to tire. :angry:
Horrid:no:
This is my point exactly, how can slate a game you haven't played the full version of?. Yeah, you have only played the demo, but that doesn't mean the finished product will be the same as the demo does it? How do you know PES2012 is shit? what proof have you got from the actual game, the finished game to back up your opinion? How do you know the actual game will be completely different from the demo? A demo is a beta version of the game, not the real thing. Don't forget PES2012 is out mid October, a whole lot can change from here on out.
One thing I hate about PES2011 is the fact the AI always have the advantage over you, no matter what player you are, no matter who you are playing they always seem to be better than you. The form arrows don't mean anything on this game and tbh they are very pointless. I hate controlling Theo Walcott or Aaron Lennon and they AI seem to always keep up with them or even out pace them.
I don't want to be controlling Drogba and being outstrengthed by a smaller, less physical centre back. This is what FIFA dominates over PES. If they don't fix that then KONAMI are in real trouble.
Fifa just simply doesn't last long enough for me, Fifa 11 was great playing at first but when you try out Be a Pro or Manager mode which are my two favourite modes in Pro Evo, then that's when you start tearing your hair out. Fifa use to be great online but now its broken as hell, clubs is unplayable and the freeze glitch ruins the game.
Pro Evo 2011 had its problems but I see better potential and less problems to fix for Konami to deal with than Ea do. I enjoyed Fifa 08,09,10 and the World Cup game but Fifa 11 just destroyed their foundations for me. Unless Konami truly f---ks up with PRo 2012 then I just can't see Fifa 12 being better
This is my point exactly, how can slate a game you haven't played the full version of?. Yeah, you have only played the demo, but that doesn't mean the finished product will be the same as the demo does it? How do you know PES2012 is shit? what proof have you got from the actual game, the finished game to back up your opinion? How do you know the actual game will be completely different from the demo? A demo is a beta version of the game, not the real thing. Don't forget PES2012 is out mid October, a whole lot can change from here on out.
One thing I hate about PES2011 is the fact the AI always have the advantage over you, no matter what player you are, no matter who you are playing they always seem to be better than you. The form arrows don't mean anything on this game and tbh they are very pointless. I hate controlling Theo Walcott or Aaron Lennon and they AI seem to always keep up with them or even out pace them.
I don't want to be controlling Drogba and being outstrengthed by a smaller, less physical centre back. This is what FIFA dominates over PES. If they don't fix that then KONAMI are in real trouble.
Agreed but not with the last part.
Strength is OVERRATED BADLY in Fifa. Strong player can do literally everything. Yes pes needs better strength battles but not onto fifa's level of strength where it becomes overrated.
FIFA 11 for me was a joke wasted the gameplay from 9 and 10 pes 2011 was not bad but felt unfinished pes 2012 looks to me like it could be the one although online will be Pish as always
In FIFA they bang on about player personality but it don't exist. Example being Titus bramble plays like Drogba if you stick him up front
^You know what's also funny.
EA marketing Fifa 12's improved Personality + WHEN PERSONALITY + DIDN'T EXIST IN FIFA 11 in the first place.
They are also going for eye candy stuff like impact engine. Things like these blind people because of the initial wow factor, BUT THEY WON'T FIX the core issues like the retarded pressure and the FACT THAT STRENGTH is the determining factor.
Seriously, both games aren't up to standard to what the ps3 is able to offer.
I totally agree with your latter statement Shaun, and it is true that personality plus was not that evident either...
But I don't look at the additions as "eye candy", I look at them as improvements. I am not telling anyone here that they should like or buy Fifa over PES, I have spent more time and money on PES than Fifa
I am just stating an obvious fact...Fifa is better than PES. I respect your statements because you seem somewhat neutral as a PES and Fifa player ...however idiotic statements like .
"..PES plays is more realistic and plays like real football than Fifa.."
...make me crack up.
What sporting game on the market excludes certain moves from its games?
Would 2K sports have beaten EA's ass if they excluded 360 spins to the baskets, Tomahawk Dunks, cross overs ...etc ?
Would MLB the Show maintain such a high presence if they excluded fast balls and sliders ?
PES excludes the basics of football. The ability to do things like,
Juggling, stop and tuns, ball roll cuts.. and many more.
So when anyone makes the above statement about PES being more realistic when they have clearly excluded many many moves from the biggest sporting game in the world ....i call them fucking idiots. Its not eye candy...its a part of the sport!
Now as to whether they like Fifa or PES ....thats a personal choice that i cannot argue on ....but i have played PES to the fullest and Fifa to the fullest and outside of the players resemblance and the graphics PES is shit.
Fifa also has it problems and pressure has been reduced FYI...but its a pickup and play game right out of the box.
This cannot be said about PES! the game is robotic, clunky and has a very steep learning curve. Gone are the days when anyone could pick up a PES game and just start playing. It is shit.
Fifa isn't the best footie game sim, but it sure beats the crap that PES is feeding us. Why do you think they are #1? Million dollar marketing right?
"PES has more personality + in its game when defenders can catch any forward on the field regardless of space or distant"
fucking noobs!:realmad:
peace
^I think you'll be happy to know that the catch up bug in pes 12 has been gone and new moves like ball stop and turn + fake shot are better than ever in pes 12. ;)
I believe Fifa has always sold better than Pes mainly due to licensing issues.
I'll still give Fifa a try this year simply because it offers something different to Pes.
Still Fifa looks better, but in all honesty, it isn't nearly as deep as Pes and Pes doesn't have that appeal that Fifa has. So yeah it's a matter of preference in the end.
^^^^^^^ He's just one of those timewasting people that make accounts and write random things. Ban him administrator
techboy11
29-10-2011, 10:11
I totally agree with your latter statement Shaun, and it is true that personality plus was not that evident either...
But I don't look at the additions as "eye candy", I look at them as improvements. I am not telling anyone here that they should like or buy Fifa over PES, I have spent more time and money on PES than Fifa
I am just stating an obvious fact...Fifa is better than PES. I respect your statements because you seem somewhat neutral as a PES and Fifa player ...however idiotic statements like .
"..PES plays is more realistic and plays like real football than Fifa.."
...make me crack up.
What sporting game on the market excludes certain moves from its games?
Would 2K sports have beaten EA's ass if they excluded 360 spins to the baskets, Tomahawk Dunks, cross overs ...etc ?
Would MLB the Show maintain such a high presence if they excluded fast balls and sliders ?
PES excludes the basics of football. The ability to do things like,
Juggling, stop and tuns, ball roll cuts.. and many more.
So when anyone makes the above statement about PES being more realistic when they have clearly excluded many many moves from the biggest sporting game in the world ....i call them fucking idiots. Its not eye candy...its a part of the sport!
Now as to whether they like Fifa or PES ....thats a personal choice that i cannot argue on ....but i have played PES to the fullest and Fifa to the fullest and outside of the players resemblance and the graphics PES is shit.
Fifa also has it problems and pressure has been reduced FYI...but its a pickup and play game right out of the box.
This cannot be said about PES! the game is robotic, clunky and has a very steep learning curve. Gone are the days when anyone could pick up a PES game and just start playing. It is shit.
Fifa isn't the best footie game sim, but it sure beats the crap that PES is feeding us. Why do you think they are #1? Million dollar marketing right?
"PES has more personality + in its game when defenders can catch any forward on the field regardless of space or distant"
fucking noobs!:realmad:
peace
Hi OCKRASS....why would that statement in bold crack you up?
For me, PES resembles what you see on tv the most. Here are my reasons.
1) This is difficult to explain but probably the most important aspect which makes the games different. The defensive unit AI is almost real life to a tee. On the higher levels, sometimes attackers close down players and space and sometimes they don't. Players filter into defensive positions on PES depending on the situation where the ball is and where the players are. If you defend properly then although you will concede ground basically your defensive units will all be in tact and there will be bodies behind the ball. If Walcott has the ball on the wing charging at the full back on PES then behind that full back will be a raft of defenders positioning themselves accordingly doubling up and cutting down space.
On FIFA, the CPU, on the highest levels anyway try and work a position so that the attacker (say Rooney or Walcott) is one on one with your man. Then the only goal that they score over and over again is trying to get into a position at the corner of the eighteen yard box where the CPU due to programming and better reflexes than the human can skin you for a one on one with the keeper.
There is no defensive support dropping in behind, there is no cover, and nine times out of ten even though Walcott may be one on one with Carragher all Carraghers team mates are in front of him not behind him!
Now this is vital for me. When I play FIFA I'm literally screaming at my team mates to be better in defense and get behind the ball.
2) FIFA has soft spots all over the place. I was bored of PES last week after a marathon stint and so went to FIFA just to have a change of pace. My FIRST game back for over a week and I won 5-1 against Fulham (Top Player, 8 min halves). LOL, I mean wtf is that all about? Within a week I had worked out that the same moves can be done (like in all FIFA titles) to open up the defence. I was one-two-ing and finesse shotting the CPU to death. Do you know how many 5-1 games I've had in probably 200 games of PES? NONE! And yet I marmalised the CPU on FIFA first game. I don't want a game that I can BEAT THE CPU AI in a week. I want to still be learning new things at Christmas!
3) As touched by other members, player individuality. This is huge for me. When I have a shot right foot with Charlie Adam I want the shot to be shit and dribble 3 miles an hour. But when it's on his left foot I want a space rocket of a shot. That's what PES can give me. In that 5-1 I was talking about I scored some seriously dubious goals, a Charlie Adam right foot stunner, a Dirk Kuyt left foot driller etc etc, it doesn't matter. I can honestly hand on heart say that I have almost never used the tactics screen in FIFA, there's just no need to. I seriously cannot tell any difference between any of the players or any of the tactics.
I could go on but I've just got up and need a PES fix :)
There's things which annoy the hell out of me with PES too like
1) Keepers - simply not good enough KONAMI. I don't care what any PES fanboy thinks, we're in the 21st century now and this is just really shoddy work from them.
2) Increasingly this is pissing me off more - the rails factor. You know when your players just get looked into an animation or motion that they just cannot shake out of, it's really, really irritating me now.
For me this year, the AI is vital and all important. I want players reacting to situations attacking wise and defensively and that's what PES can give me that FIFA cannot. I also feel that in PES the CPU uses build up play for a purpose, whereas in FIFA the build up play is illusory (as if it's saying look at me, I'm a sim now that the CPU can pass the ball about). In FIFA I constantly get the feeling that the build up play is all scripted just as eye candy because of the complaints last year that the CPU went from front to back too quickly. The point is I am still waiting for the CPU to open me up using good football as opposed to engineering the constant one v one situations at the edge of my box.
Fifa just simply doesn't last long enough for me, Fifa 11 was great playing at first but when you try out Be a Pro or Manager mode which are my two favourite modes in Pro Evo, then that's when you start tearing your hair out. Fifa use to be great online but now its broken as hell, clubs is unplayable and the freeze glitch ruins the game.
Pro Evo 2011 had its problems but I see better potential and less problems to fix for Konami to deal with than Ea do. I enjoyed Fifa 08,09,10 and the World Cup game but Fifa 11 just destroyed their foundations for me. Unless Konami truly f---ks up with PRo 2012 then I just can't see Fifa 12 being better
And Konami did truly f--ked it up :no:
Hi
There is no defensive support dropping in behind, there is no cover, and nine times out of ten even though Walcott may be one on one with Carragher all Carraghers team mates are in front of him not behind him!
Now this is vital for me. When I play FIFA I'm literally screaming at my team mates to be better in defense and get behind the ball.
2) FIFA has soft spots all over the place.
3) A I seriously cannot tell any difference between any of the players or any of the tactics.
I could go on but I've just got up and need a PES fix :)
I think you maybe you are just repeating stuff others have said in an effort to make fifa look bad. Here is proof of good defending on Fifa 12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f15B8j3sck
Here is PES 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Fd5elWiR4
techboy11
02-11-2011, 09:14
I think you maybe you are just repeating stuff others have said in an effort to make fifa look bad. Here is proof of good defending on Fifa 12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f15B8j3sck
Here is PES 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Fd5elWiR4
Err, one video is a video of selected defending clips from human v human, the other is a PES goals compilation!?! Am I missing something?!?
My point about FIFA is not necessarily regarding human v human, it's regarding CPU v human.
The contain function is next to useless to be frank at the higher levels, it's virtually pointless. These are my observations of the two.
PES- players look to attack you, you can curtail the move by using the holdup function which lets the player get in close to the CPU player without having to tackle. CPU build up play is there, but if you defend well you can stop the moves eventually and force the CPU into giving the ball away/losing possession.
FIFA - the build up play is ALL ILLUSORY. By that I feel that the build up play from the CPU is just there in code just to make it look like build up play and is very non-organic. It is ALL designed to get the CPU guy one on one with the defender at the corner of the box to initiate getting past the defender. The attackers in this game are way too responsive v the defender and the CPU (or EA) know this, it has been programmed this way. So on the higher difficulties it is just a case of the CPU being programmed to get into that one on one situation where you either stop them by a 50-50 challenge, or they skid by you.
It is the unresponsiveness of the defenders v the responsivness of the attackers that make people change the sliders in favour of the human to balance things out. I have played probably a 100 FIFA games now, and it's the same thing over and over. The CPU almost always score a one on one when they skin your last man, or they get a tap in from two yards after that said player passes to another CPU team mate inside the 6 yard box. THERE IS NO VARIATION IN GOALS FROM THE CPU because the CPU AI is just dull as dog shit in terms of being creative.
So what you have is a long series of chess moves in which you either have the patience of a nun whilst Burton Albion string together 100 consecutive passes, or you lapse somewhere along the line (normally on pass 143) and then the CPU has engineered that one on one situation, from here it's a lottery as to whether the CPU has scripted a goal or not. If you use contain, all you do is delay the inevitable because eventually the CPU will have worked its way into the box where a simple lateral pass will give the striker a shot at goal from 10 yards.
Now you can slag off keepers and animations and presentation etc etc on PES, and I'll be 100% with you. But the guts of the game, the engine and the AI, there is just no comparison I'm afraid. In FIFA I'm yet to be undone with a great CPU move, and say 'fk me, where did that come from. that was good?', in PES it happens frequently. That's because essentially the AI is just so much better in PES. I can also score (on World Class or Legendary) pretty much at will now once you get into certain soft spot areas, like the attacker at their edge of the eighteen yard box doing a circle on himself and bamboozling the CPU defender, then you simply just finesse your way to a finish. It literally took me a day or so to suss FIFA out. PES is a different kettle of fish, I'm still learning strong after having caned both demos and played this game non-stop since release.
A plain and simple point.
fifa 12's AI sucks so bad that it makes fifa 11's bad AI look better.
Seriously, I cannot find words to describe the aweful AI of fifa 12.
In pes however, I cannot stand the fact that the defenders cannot really make pressure and so they back out. I totally hate it because there's no midfield pressure.
But fifa's midfield pressure is a joke aswell because it's just an illusion.
Both pes and Fifa are unbalanced this year, but I feel that although pes might look more unbalanced, IT IS actually more balanced than fifa in the long run.
In fifa, there's no real build up, the CPU AI just intercept like crazy and make crazy turns left and right with his superhuman dribbles. Not to mention the stupid tackling system that doesn't work well. It works when the game wants and there's no timing involved.
Oh and the obvious spots in the pitch where a standing tackle never works, regardless of the players on the pitch.
Ever wonder why the AI always plays the same game?
Going from the wing, either crossing the ball (which will result in a header on goal, because the CPU will hit 99.9% of air balls no matter how well you time your jump) or the AI may also try to dribble from the wing and suddenly become unstoppable, like no tackle would work. You know why that happens?
Because in fifa 12, there's a spot in the pitch, near the side of the goal that if you do not have any midfielder pressuring you and you're against the defenders only, you go from the wing, make a 90 degree turn so that the player will favour his foot, and then you can just run into the middle without ever being tackled. THIS BS makes me sick. The AI takes advantage of this glitch all the time and it makes me sick to death.
So all in all, fifa 12 is the most overrated game in the history of gaming because although it made steps forward from fifa 11, the game is riddled with bugs and glitches that are easy to exploit and the AI is atrocious. Not to mention the lack of individuality and lack of creative play.
Pes 12 on the other hand had an idea of how it would play, but failed to execute it PROPERLY thus making these bad things seem really bad and annoying.
techboy11
02-11-2011, 10:54
A plain and simple point.
fifa 12's AI sucks so bad that it makes fifa 11's bad AI look better.
Seriously, I cannot find words to describe the aweful AI of fifa 12.
In pes however, I cannot stand the fact that the defenders cannot really make pressure and so they back out. I totally hate it because there's no midfield pressure.
But fifa's midfield pressure is a joke aswell because it's just an illusion.
Both pes and Fifa are unbalanced this year, but I feel that although pes might look more unbalanced, IT IS actually more balanced than fifa in the long run.
In fifa, there's no real build up, the CPU AI just intercept like crazy and make crazy turns left and right with his superhuman dribbles. Not to mention the stupid tackling system that doesn't work well. It works when the game wants and there's no timing involved.
Oh and the obvious spots in the pitch where a standing tackle never works, regardless of the players on the pitch.
Ever wonder why the AI always plays the same game?
Going from the wing, either crossing the ball (which will result in a header on goal, because the CPU will hit 99.9% of air balls no matter how well you time your jump) or the AI may also try to dribble from the wing and suddenly become unstoppable, like no tackle would work. You know why that happens?
Because in fifa 12, there's a spot in the pitch, near the side of the goal that if you do not have any midfielder pressuring you and you're against the defenders only, you go from the wing, make a 90 degree turn so that the player will favour his foot, and then you can just run into the middle without ever being tackled. THIS BS makes me sick. The AI takes advantage of this glitch all the time and it makes me sick to death.
So all in all, fifa 12 is the most overrated game in the history of gaming because although it made steps forward from fifa 11, the game is riddled with bugs and glitches that are easy to exploit and the AI is atrocious. Not to mention the lack of individuality and lack of creative play.
Pes 12 on the other hand had an idea of how it would play, but failed to execute it PROPERLY thus making these bad things seem really bad and annoying.
Shaun do you PES post or pre patch? I agree totally that post patch you cannot put any midfield pressure on opposition teams because the CPU will just laser guide balls from A to B to C, therefore negating three or four of your players pressurising. So you HAVE to play a contain game in post patch. HOWEVER, pre patch is a different kettle of fish. I had a game v Chelsea yesterday where that's all it was was a midfield scrap, you can pressure high up the pitch because the sliders for both you and the CPU work and you can manually move your players into attacking pressurising positions to stem attacks high up the pitch; this simply isn't possible post patch because the sliders are fking useless, because the game both for you and the CPU is designed to have both sets of teams drop back, therefore the only way to defend in post patch is to drop and contain.
The problem with pre-patch as some say is the goalies, although I have to admit that I don't see that many blunders anymore with my combination of settings now and my defensive technique. Pre-patch you can also make the opposition lose the ball high up the pitch, it really is the better of the two patches. The fact that you can get penalised by better teams from pressing is neither here nor there, the fact is you have the option pre-patch to defend as you wish, either containment and drop, or pressure and high up.
In FIFA it doesn't really matter, I really am lost for words how any FOOTBALL fan can't see through this game. You have a contain function which puts five yards between you and the CPU, and the responsiveness in certain areas of the pitch as you quite rightly said means that the CPU get to that point on the pitch for cheap tactics. I've yet to see the CPU cut me open with a crafted move, or lovely bit of natural skill (apart from the Tevez skinning Carragher one on one corner of the eighteen box shit lol).
It's taken a while after the dust has settled and the jubilation has died down, but many people (finally) on the EA forums are seeing the game for what it is; cheap programming, cheap tactics, illusion based game. It's even more blatantly scripted than PES because you can feel the CPU kick in after you've stemmed them for so long. It's like the game says, fk this you've defended brilliantly against me for so long and stagnated my every chess move after nearly 1000 passes, shove this up your jacksey, and then Burton Albion get a speed surge, get one on one, leave Carragher on his arse because apparently defenders are shit unless they have speed 99 and response 99 and strength 99, and score a lovely crafted CPU one on one. It makes me smile....for a second...then I want to snap the disc.
^ I am playing on post patch because I am on PC. :)
Might have to try pre patch sometime.
Anyway might wait until the next patch arrives and see how it plays out, however from what I can remember pre patch, I still think that pes needs more midfield pressure. :)
fifa 12 ai isn't aweful - players move but not all the time and in good position. They put their hand up where tthey are moving so for me fifa has way better ai than pes ai where players don't even run in diagnal lines
hawkeye76
02-11-2011, 15:24
The AI is really quite poor in FIFA games.
I believe that EA must be focusing more on human vs human, as the offline CPU modes are next to pointless.
The AI in pes, especially 12, is so much better and yes more realistic.
I think part of the difference in opinions is how you play and what mode.
I can play round the faults in pes better than the faults with fifa. Plus I mainly play against the cpu, where PES is undoubtably the better game, IMO. Ive always bought both, although I haven't bought FIFA12 yet, and Pes always ends up getting a lot more game time.
Even against humans I find FIFA too annoying to play for long. There is obvious scripting where its trying to manufacture a win, lose, win, lose etc pattern. I played numerous rematches with a friend online and it was blatant that it was either being made easier or harder to attempt to share the wins out. I find the cursor change on FIFA worse than the one on PES. Constant one on ones, players running through defences, too much space. I know 12 has a different defensive system, but previously the much fabled jostling system meant tackling was more akin to rugby. Barge someone off the ball from behind as a tackling method. How is that football? Even against a human opponent FIFA feels ultimately quite boring and empty.
Whats disappointed me more than PES's fall from grace and failure to adapt to next gen machines, is the complete overhyping of FIFA. EA went from making poor football games on the PS2, to average ones on the PS3. PES has gone from making good to very good games on the PS2 to average ones on the PS3. Possibly the difference in review scores could be down to FIFA's ability to impress out the box and feel like it promises more, but fails to deliver. PES is more of a slow burner. Its stand out feature over FIFA is the AI, and thats harder to appreciate in a short term review. FIFA, for me, will keep falling down until its AI comes anywhere near to matching its other features.
Im enjoying PES at the moment. Whether I'm playing it in 2 months plus will be the test of it regaining its mojo.
Played around 100 games of FIFA 12. And I'm afraid I just wasted 60 bucks as to me it is utter shit, impact engine is probably the dumbest shit ever, but the presentation is wayyyyyyy better than pes
fifa 12 ai isn't aweful - players move but not all the time and in good position. They put their hand up where tthey are moving so for me fifa has way better ai than pes ai where players don't even run in diagnal lines
I agree, fifa 12's AI is not aweful. Aweful is not ENOUGH to describe how bad Fifa 12's AI is.
DO NOT MAKE ME RE LIST THE UTTER BS FROM FIFA 12'S AI again.
Oh and you're talking about player runs? Seriously? Pes 12 does it good, even fifa to an extent, however that's not the point. The point is how the cpu AI plays, and that's atrocious.
Can you even REVIEW a game?
N'gog le God
02-11-2011, 19:26
This is my first year of moving to the dark side and i just can't get my head around FIFA. It is much better than i remembered but still something just not right with it. PES pisses me off so much how they have allowed FIFA to get the jump on them. If they hadn't of been pissing around for so many years they would have completely left FIFA behind in the dust by now.
The tackling system on FIFA is very weird. The shooting feels weird as well which PES is doing its best to copy now for God knows what reason.
I'm sure what i always liked about PES was that it just seemed more natural and SOLID where as FIFA always seemed like you weren't actually in control of a solid player or in contact with the ground ie more like air hockey but PES now seems to be moving in that direction as well.
I actually like the impact engine on FIFA, it obviously needs lots of work and is in its infancy but if they can't get it working properly FIFA will only continue to get better in my opinion. Whereas i always liked PES because i thought it felt more real and you were more likely to get random deflected shots etc. The ball physics are still well dodgy in FIFA but it seems like PES is now trying to move into that direction with horrible nasty floaty shots.
I have played racing games a little and what i would always notice first was whether you actually felt like the tyres were in contact with the ground or not. Somes games would feeling like you were merely skating along with that air hockey feeling whereas others you would actually feel like your tyres where burning rubber.
I always used to think FIFA was more of a ridge racer to PES's forza but PES seems to want to get more floaty and skatey now for some reason.
Personally i don't actually think the FIFA menus are all that, a bit too flashy and complicated for their own good, i couldn't care less about PES's menu system and i actually preferred the old nice and simple menus. All i ever used to hear was how good FIFAs menus were and how much better online it was and while there are a hell of a lot more options i can't really tell wtf is going on, maybe i just need to get used to them.
FIFA - ideas like 11 vs 11, which although often ends up in a mess, is a well implemented great idea.
PES - 2vs2 online on the XBOX 360 is in manual and on box and for all intenses and purposes, should be in he game, but is inexplicably left out for what seems to be nothing more than carelessness/ineptitude.
- Comes up with the single greatest computer game option ever! RANDOM SELECTION MATCH, shear simple genius, but then just leaves it out of all future games for no reason whatsoever!
I think it is clear to me that a lot more effort and care is going into FIFA than PES. I actually think PES has the better staff it is just that they are either lazy or being badly directed and i would think the latter. I don't think the money has anything to do with it. Money can buy FIFA all the licences and flashiness it wants but PES always used to have the actual simplistics of football over FIFA.
We need another games company to poach all the key PES staff that know what they are doing and make a the game they should of made years ago.
FIFA = broken mess being repaired and bettered each year.
PES = Once so close to perfection now just 1 step forwards 2 steps back.
N'gog le God
02-11-2011, 19:37
On this AI issue i should say i barely play 1 player if ever. To me PES has always been a much better game 2vs2, in fact it is transformed as a game. This is why the fact they have left out 2vs2 online on the XBOX360 is such an f'ing disgrace.
Things like players making runs etc become much less of an issue when you have someone else in control with you. I think the 11vs11 on FIFA is a great idea if it was possible to actually get more than a few people who actually wanted to play properly and not score with the keeper.
Saying that when i play someone else on FIFA i don't like the runs my players often make and that is why i always try to play 2vs2 if i can, but i noticed the sam on PES before they put that new system in anyway.
I always used to moan that PES was trying to fix matches when i would thrash one of my mates then the next match have like 20 shots to 2 but then lose although i don't think i ever actually seriously thought the ai was fixing it more it was just like real life and a coincidence. Ie teams like Barca do lose and draw now and then but usually they still have all the possession and chances.
I will need to pay more attention to deliberate AI interference and "Catch Up" even in player vs player matches.
Err, one video is a video of selected defending clips from human v human, the other is a PES goals compilation!?! Am I missing something?!?
My point about FIFA is not necessarily regarding human v human, it's regarding CPU v human.
The contain function is next to useless to be frank at the higher levels, it's virtually pointless. These are my observations of the two.
PES- players look to attack you, you can curtail the move by using the holdup function which lets the player get in close to the CPU player without having to tackle. CPU build up play is there, but if you defend well you can stop the moves eventually and force the CPU into giving the ball away/losing possession.
FIFA - the build up play is ALL ILLUSORY. By that I feel that the build up play from the CPU is just there in code just to make it look like build up play and is very non-organic. It is ALL designed to get the CPU guy one on one with the defender at the corner of the box to initiate getting past the defender. The attackers in this game are way too responsive v the defender and the CPU (or EA) know this, it has been programmed this way. So on the higher difficulties it is just a case of the CPU being programmed to get into that one on one situation where you either stop them by a 50-50 challenge, or they skid by you.
It is the unresponsiveness of the defenders v the responsivness of the attackers that make people change the sliders in favour of the human to balance things out. I have played probably a 100 FIFA games now, and it's the same thing over and over. The CPU almost always score a one on one when they skin your last man, or they get a tap in from two yards after that said player passes to another CPU team mate inside the 6 yard box. THERE IS NO VARIATION IN GOALS FROM THE CPU because the CPU AI is just dull as dog shit in terms of being creative.
So what you have is a long series of chess moves in which you either have the patience of a nun whilst Burton Albion string together 100 consecutive passes, or you lapse somewhere along the line (normally on pass 143) and then the CPU has engineered that one on one situation, from here it's a lottery as to whether the CPU has scripted a goal or not. If you use contain, all you do is delay the inevitable because eventually the CPU will have worked its way into the box where a simple lateral pass will give the striker a shot at goal from 10 yards.
Now you can slag off keepers and animations and presentation etc etc on PES, and I'll be 100% with you. But the guts of the game, the engine and the AI, there is just no comparison I'm afraid. In FIFA I'm yet to be undone with a great CPU move, and say 'fk me, where did that come from. that was good?', in PES it happens frequently. That's because essentially the AI is just so much better in PES. I can also score (on World Class or Legendary) pretty much at will now once you get into certain soft spot areas, like the attacker at their edge of the eighteen yard box doing a circle on himself and bamboozling the CPU defender, then you simply just finesse your way to a finish. It literally took me a day or so to suss FIFA out. PES is a different kettle of fish, I'm still learning strong after having caned both demos and played this game non-stop since release.
I knew you would say that. Human vs Human ....well here is human vs CPU.
This is just on regular mode so...
As you can see in the below videos, all that is said about Fifa's defending is just bullcrap.
Stop making stupid accusations about a game you do not play.
Maybe you can post some matches of the horrible defending you and others continually complain about.
You are sounding pathetic now ...really. :blush:
Proof!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhtOqfbPczA
and of course legendary settings...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK1p2GSwIiU
techboy11
03-11-2011, 08:25
Okay OCKRASS you win, FIFA has good defending and the CPU doesn't score the same glitchy goals all the time (palm) (face)
Those videos are horrible.
orlandoSPUR
03-11-2011, 16:35
Those videos are horrible.
This
I agree, fifa 12's AI is not aweful. Aweful is not ENOUGH to describe how bad Fifa 12's AI is.
DO NOT MAKE ME RE LIST THE UTTER BS FROM FIFA 12'S AI again.
Oh and you're talking about player runs? Seriously? Pes 12 does it good, even fifa to an extent, however that's not the point. The point is how the cpu AI plays, and that's atrocious.
Can you even REVIEW a game?
I can review A game better than you as i am neutral and you are completely biased. You don't expereince fifa as other gamers experience so you would be poor at reviewing
i have successfully converted to fifa after battering the demo for hours. It is way more realistic- the ball physics, player movement, individuality it's all there. And defending isn't hard and unlike pes there is a button to stick your foot out unlike pes where sticking your foot out is controlled by the ai
i have successfully converted to fifa after battering the demo for hours. It is way more realistic- the ball physics, player movement, individuality it's all there. And defending isn't hard and unlike pes there is a button to stick your foot out unlike pes where sticking your foot out is controlled by the ai
Sorry your'e wrong , you can perform standing tackle in pes by tapping A when in the right position, you can also perform a similar action by tapping right trigger.
yeah - when you are in a suitable condition. Are you trying to tell me that in real life you can stick your foot out only on the 'suitable' coniditions. Anyway pes doesn't know anything as when i am in a good position i can't stick my leg out.
I don't think you know much about footy
yeah - when you are in a suitable condition. Are you trying to tell me that in real life you can stick your foot out only on the 'suitable' coniditions. Anyway pes doesn't know anything as when i am in a good position i can't stick my leg out.
I don't think you know much about footy
I dont remember saying that, its contextual and you have to time it right. Standing tackle isn't always as responsive as it could be however you have two different types of standing tackle at your disposal, you made it sound like standing tackle was non existent which frustrated me as its a big part of my game and I use it often.
And for the record mate, I don't need to defend my knowledge of football to you, nice try though.
in pes you don't have to time it right because the cpu decide when to do it. In fifa it is much more about timing because you could easily get in the book if you do it at the wrong place.
Let me ask you a question - which one of pes and fifa do you find has the most realistic stand tackling?
in pes you don't have to time it right because the cpu decide when to do it. In fifa it is much more about timing because you could easily get in the book if you do it at the wrong place.
Let me ask you a question - which one of pes and fifa do you find has the most realistic stand tackling?
Haven't tried fifa's new defensive system enough to comment so it would be unfair of me to make judgments on it. I came in this thread to respond to your comment not discuss pes v fifa. Sure it does the job, I found standing tackle in fifa 11 responsive and it took skill and timing especially against human players, although against legendary AI I felt standing tackles were less effective.
Not the best person to ask about fifa, I lost interest in it a while back. Played a bit of fifa 12 just not for me.
You should have said that then. I thought you tried out both
You should have said that then. I thought you tried out both
Maybe you should start reading posts properly before jumping in and accusing people of not knowing their football.
You should have said that then. I thought you tried out both
This is my point Abu97...most of the noobs here who are giving Fifa a bad name ...(get this) have never played the fuckin' game! :w00t
Would you believe that?
And they go on and on and on about how PES is better that Fifa.
At least SDP has now admitted that he does not play Fifa so really there is nothing he should be saying about the damn game.
The other noobster techguy or what his name said some silly sheit about Fifa defense ...i posted a video of proof ....he said "oh thats human against human" .
So I posted human vs cpu and guess what ....nothing. All a bunch of wanksters.
I play both games and I have more games invested in PES over Fifa because i was a PES fan boy. But now I cannot be biased, Fifa is fundamentally and strategically kicking PES arse in every department. Bar none.
Now i am not telling anyone here that they should choose Fifa over PES, all i am saying is that for many (millions) Fifa is the best football game on any console or PC to-date.
Their record sales is not a fluke or only kids supporting the game...its people like me who have decided that PES 6 is the best Konami has done so far and i am not planning on comparing or playing PES 6 in 2011-2012.
Join the United States of Fifa ....;)
I can review A game better than you as i am neutral and you are completely biased. You don't expereince fifa as other gamers experience so you would be poor at reviewing
:erm: What in the world is that?
I am biased? No.
I never said that pes 12 is perfect, and I listed what needs to change, however even though fifa 12 looks like a better game, when you take the time to review it, it is NOT. How is that biased??
You said tactical defending resembles real life? :no:
You said fifa 12's AI is good? :no:
You said that impact engine is awesome because of the collisions? :no:
You said fifa 12 has individuality? :no:
Now who's biased?
You seriously cannot review a game if you have never seen or experienced the issues that I listed about fifa 12's AI and how aweful it is. EA made an easy to exploit AI, but made it look hard because it takes advantage of glitches in the game and makes his players have superhuman reactions, and not to mention that 99.9% of air balls will always be won by the CPU. Oh and what about the FACT that the cpu ALWAYS scores the same goals?
The two goals that I am talking about are a cross and a header (because the AI will win 99.9% of air balls)
And a pass to the winger, getting rid of your midfielders, and then he will turn and favour his foot, become unstoppable until he reaches the middle point and finesse you (the other HUGE issue that I listed where there are spots in the pitch where a standing tackle NEVER works)
That tells me something right there.
It tells me that the AI DOES IN FACT take advantage of glitches and it does make his players have superhuman reactions.
So before you come in here and slate pes for having bad collisions (WHICH DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL IN THE GAMEPLAY DEPARTMENT), you'd better take a look at Fifa's aweful AI and glitches first because those that I listed above, make the game more unplayable than Pes. Not to mention the lack of individuality and the ridicules turning ability of every player (the square + X move).
If you're bragging about the collision system and how impact engine is awesome, that tells me that you're just seeing what catches your eye and THAT IS NOT GOOD REVIEWING AT ALL. TO REVIEW SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO GO much, much deeper.
I never stated that pes 12 was awesome. I said that pes 12's good side outweighs the bad side, however the bad side is extremely annoying.
techboy11
04-11-2011, 09:41
Agree 100% Shaun.
Listen nobody is saying that PES has got it spot on, in fact this year PES has been analysed and scrutinised from top to bottom by every man and his dog, it's been unprecedented the amount of depth people have gone into finder its good points and bad.
BUT...
Fifa is like the game that is always better when you're not playing it. You play PES for around a while and things may stagnate a bit, in the back of your mind your thinking about FIFA with all it's presentation, the physics, the smoothness etc etc. You begin to ask yourself why aren't you playing FIFA, so you take the PES disc out and shove in the old enemy.
Hmm, brilliant you think, why aren't I playing this more, you think. Everything seems solid, no funny things happening, FIFA is the best game out there you conclude once again....
UNTIL YOU'VE HAD 30 MINUTES WITH IT AGAIN...
Then you see for all the smoothness, all the presentation, all the silkiness there are GLARING problems which gets you even angrier than PES rage -
1) Rubbish AI. Not necessarily the stagnant nature of your players, but the way the CPU constantly manufacturers itself into 'glitch' positions to score the goals that Shaun was talking about.
2) Balls bouncing to the CPU in higher level modes.
3) The same repetitive goals for the CPU, and the finesse sweet spots for the human
4) The way defences open up on 45 mins (for you and the CPU) and 90
5) Everything is too precise, why bother with tactics or players at all, everyone has Messi touch and control.
It's around this point that I conclude that once again FIFA has had me fooled, and that it plays a much, much better game in my head, when I'm not playing it. It's also around this point that I put PES back in the drive and see the following
AND PEOPLE SAY FIFA IS SIM, this is what PES has to make it SIM
1) Players booked, yellow and red cards
2) Actual fouls - you know those things you see up and down the country on Saturday on the playing fields
3) Variety of goals
4) The ball is alive and bouncing everywhere
5) Player individuality
6) A need to change tactics and change players around
7) Variety of CPU goals
8) Wonderful AI, for you and the CPU, from what I can see there are very few glitch areas in PES for either you or the CPU, the cross from the byline is WAY, WAY too overpowered for my liking, but in the higher levels the CPU stops you mainly from easily getting to the byline, so it balances out a little
For anyone not enjoying the game, on the PS3 by all accounts, you need to try Chimps and Goalgerd's latest effort, the gameplay is stunning and fair. For my money it's a little too easy because they have changed the game dynamics and somehow managed to almost take out the silly CPU scripted cheat goals. But for 95% of people using the OF, they have had to DROP DOWN A LEVEL because they find it tough.
FIFA is just one big pretty illusion, designed to fool the weak minded. I can see the cheap programming a mile off I'm afraid, say what you like about PES outdated menus, silly music, and a host of other things, I don't buy a football game to have shiny presentation, I buy the game for gameplay value, and for me PES is in front.
hawkeye76
04-11-2011, 13:08
Ive wanted FIFA to produce a game I like again since the very first 2. Which at the time I loved. EA can offer everything, if they just get the game feeling correct on the pitch. So anyone who doesn't go over to FIFA, just through loyalty to PES, is doing themselves a disservice.
I always get both at some point over the year. But FIFA doesn't get nearly as much time as PES. Forgetting everything else, the main issue is, I find FIFA ultimately quite dull. I never really care if i win or lose. Plus for me, the annoyances of FIFA frustrate me more than the ones on PES. (or I can overlook PES's easier as it offers me more pleasure)
I could liken the 2 games to 2 cars that Ive owned in the past.
An Audi TT (the older version) and a nissan 350Z.
If you analysed each individual aspect of the cars, the build quality, interior, ease of use, smoothness, badge, comfort, amount of seats, storage, service centre, cornering ability, speed, running costs, sales figures etc etc to get an over review score. The Audi would win hands down.
But the TT is ultimately boring to drive. You feel removed from the driving experience.
The 350Z however, fell down on most areas, but not where it counts. Driving pleasure. Every time I drove it, it put a smile on my face, in spite of its flaws. So it was, for me, the much better car (RIP).
Also, you can't state sales figures to show that FIFA is better than PES. FIFA has always outsold PES no matter how well rated it was.
N'gog le God
08-11-2011, 18:38
PLEASE READ:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...lling-pes-25-1
"When you look at Pro Evolution Soccer versus FIFA, only five years ago in the UK PES was outselling FIFA. On its first weekend like-for-like we've just outsold PES by 25 times,"
There is a reason for this. Tells you everything you need to know.
EA have tried their best to improve a crap game over the years.
Konami have tried their best to destroy a great game over the years.
Konami just don't give a sh1t basically, EA do. On FIFA there are constant updates. On PES hey leave out features such as 2vs2 online on the XBOX then make no effort whatsoever to patch it back in.
Btw i am [was] a serious PES FAN BOY, i defended it to the last. I always hated FIFA and i still hate EA but enough is enough.
If are like me and you always hated FIFA i would say give it one more try. It's still feels worse than PES yes, but it is getting much better and has had a lot more care put into it. Konami can go f off.
FIFA 12 on completely manual settings against a human opponent is actually a very interesting and challenging game and i would recommend all PES users give it a try if they get the chance. As in all assistance settings set to manual.
Also 11 vs 11 players online is a great idea only held back by numpties and imbeciles bu that isn't EAs fault.
IronCity
08-11-2011, 18:43
its amazing to me that EA has not been able to make FIFA really good. Never played FIFA but EA's Madden and NHL are fantastic. Why is FIFA so hard for them to get right? Sometime I think Madden is easier because 11 players are patterned to do less - for example, offensive lineman have to block a space, and defenders have to chase a ball. But for FIFA, 11 almost have to work independently and that may be a hard feat to pull of.
fifa 12 encourages freedom and pes stops it. FIFA'S AI might not be the best but atleast it is decent. I want a game with freedom AND player individuality and clearly pes doesn' know the difference between both. They only have 4 bloody dribbling styles which is a disgrace considering it is 2012 and even pes 4 had 4 styles. It's ridiculous - in pes you rely on the sliders and tactics because there is no freedom so you rely on the cpu changing your tactics when you set up the sliders. Sure fifa is less tactical but that is because they think a human should play the match themselves, not with assistance. You can also alter the passing and shooting better - instead of four bars in pes' passing and not even having the ability to change the shooting settings and in FIFA you can alter it from 0 to 100. It might be boring to you ut atleast it offers freedom and doing things more independant eventohugh most fifa noobs put everything assisted and abuse the finesse shots
saw boss
08-11-2011, 20:33
Sorry but how does FIFA encourage freedom?
Everytime i play FIFA it turns into tennis, Ball hammerd from defense to an unmarked striker.
And the way the field is set out in FIFA is awful.GK-Defense -Big Gap - Midfield - Big Gap - Striker.
I don't think you have tried FIFA. Incase you didn't know they have looked inot tacics deeper and introduced tactical defending where defenders are less compact and choose the right time to press and make sure you don't leave holes. I mean look at pes, just introduced zonal marking and zonal defense which is what fifa 11 introduced and their one is better than pes 2012's. And if you've ever played it, you probably play it on the easiest level.
Also how does things like how the field is set out doesn't relate to freedom.
I also agree with you OCKRASS, a lotof people that say FIFA sucks balls or whatever haven't even tried it or gave the damo 10mins on the easiest demo and didn't even change some settings. Also a lot of people complain that the defending is crap and that shows they don't try it out as you can change it to legacy defending. Some people don't even try the demo, they look at youtube vids and judge the game on that.
Furthermore, FIFA you can actually do a goal celebration so you actually control a player unlike pes where they randomly decide whether to do goal celebration 1 or 2, they don't even let you choose. This is yet another example on how FIFA gives you more freedom than PES
IronCity
08-11-2011, 22:42
Fifa is like the game that is always better when you're not playing it. You play PES for around a while and things may stagnate a bit, in the back of your mind your thinking about FIFA with all it's presentation, the physics, the smoothness etc etc. You begin to ask yourself why aren't you playing FIFA, so you take the PES disc out and shove in the old enemy.
Hmm, brilliant you think, why aren't I playing this more, you think. Everything seems solid, no funny things happening, FIFA is the best game out there you conclude once again....
UNTIL YOU'VE HAD 30 MINUTES WITH IT AGAIN....
I didn't requote his techboy's entire message to save space, you can read it above, but it is these posts that I feel save me from wasting $60 on FIFA.
I am teased by its looks, and growing tired of the OF process. Every time I begin to stray this site brings be back in. thanks techboy for bringing me back to reality.
I also agree with you OCKRASS, a lotof people that say FIFA sucks balls or whatever haven't even tried it or gave the damo 10mins on the easiest demo and didn't even change some settings. Also a lot of people complain that the defending is crap and that shows they don't try it out as you can change it to legacy defending. Some people don't even try the demo, they look at youtube vids and judge the game on that.
Furthermore, FIFA you can actually do a goal celebration so you actually control a player unlike pes where they randomly decide whether to do goal celebration 1 or 2, they don't even let you choose. This is yet another example on how FIFA gives you more freedom than PES
It really makes no sense arguing or trying to explain anything to them.
There is no way anyone who plays both game would come back to say PES is better than Fifa....that would be ridiculous.
As I stated, most who do not like Fifa ...do not play the game. Period.
They come up with stuff like ..."Fifa has no soul" Whatever the fook does that means?
or EA's huge marketing, tricks people into buying the game. Just a bunch of shiity comments.
I played PES for a long period but have realized that Seabass has no idea where to take the game on the next gen console. He has now chosen to copy some of Fifa's features but still has failed miserably.
Fifa has outsold PES 25 to 1. I guess that the 25 represents fools and idiots who knows nothing about football games and the 1 is the really smart ones who really knows how to choose the best game on the market. :laugh:
Without apology.....Fifa kicks PES arse up and down the field any day.
Stick to PES if you want ...but don't pick on Fifa for Konami's poor excuse of a game. Let Fifa enjoy its well earned #1spot on top like PES once did,.............
stick to the robotic, fake players/teams, retarded refs/goalies, slingshot/ping pong passing, absurd shooting, monkey animations, run fast and shoot hard as you can "Soccer" game if you like....
I will stick to Fifa the true "Football" simulation.
PES more realistic...? they can't even juggle the damn ball :w00t
That should be basic ...so how is that realistic football for ya? :no:
Please :blush:
peace
markcross
09-11-2011, 07:21
no contest, pes all the way, anyone with an ounce of footballing intelligence knows that fifa was only made for gays and strays
techboy11
09-11-2011, 07:47
It's a well known researched fact that FIFA players are chav unemployed little mummy's boys, who are 99% more likely to sexually abuse animals, and whose daily diet includes lots of blue smarties and fizzy pop.
Meanwhile, MORI conducted a poll into PES players and found that they had really good sex lives, a gorgeous partner and had a full time job. They also concluded that PES players had a wide spectrum of friends, a car that rocked, were popular in school, were successful in sport and generally just kicked ass in everything they touched.
True, that.
markcross
09-11-2011, 09:00
your pes player description is incorrect... i have two gorgeous female partners, no biggy tho
techboy11
09-11-2011, 09:02
your pes player description is incorrect... i have two gorgeous female partners, no biggy tho
My bad....MORI will have to look into it further....to be continued...
Sabatasso
09-11-2011, 10:50
I will stick to Fifa the true "Football" simulation.
Fair enough, you prefer FIFA over PES. No shame in that. But calling FIFA "the true football simulation" is just pathetic. You speak as if you're the only one that has played FIFA on this board, and just to make that clear right here, you're not.
I have the latest FIFA, it suffers from as many gripes as PES does. Different gripes, but still just as annoying.
Since my brother in law also seem to prefer FIFA this year, I have played FIFA12 almost more than I have played PES. And by now I can curl the ball into the top corner from almost anywhere within decent shooting range with several decent shooters, Van Der Vaart for example. 7-10 shots equals at least 3 more or less identical goals. I can score hat-trick long shot goals that are near identical to each other in several games in a row in fact. I don't think that qualifies for "true simulation" or even remotely "realistic". Giving the human player more or less full control of the shooting mechanics will turn out bad in the end. To make games funny, we have to play with teams that are so poor that the players botch what I attempt to do often enough that the games becomes interesting. Otherwise we're facing 8-6 results all the time. Attacking in FIFA is relatively easy compared to defending, and good players succeed at what you try to do almost all the time.
Footy games should be and will always be a glorified version of reality, where games are hardly ever "normal" unless you, the player, behave "normally" with your players. Constant sprinting and gung-ho attacking for 90 minutes will not give you a realistic match. Not in FIFA, or in PES. PES just seem to put more restrictions, forcing you to try and pace yourself more like a real game. FIFA is in fact more arcade than PES.
But if you prefer FIFA, let me enjoy PES in peace. None of the games are any "better" than the other in the end. It's a matter of taste.
I ONCE SAW VAN DER VAART IN TRAINING AND EVERY PRACTICE SHOT HE DID CURLED INTO THE CORNER. This also makes it more free - sure it might be a bit easy but atleast it offers more freedom especially when you adjust the settings to your liking. Anyway you can't say pes is more realistic when everything is played way too fast and on FIFA the gamespeed is perfect and not arcadey. FIFA 090 was kinda arcadey but they improve on it and take half a step forward whilst pes take 1 step forward and 2 steps back
But calling FIFA "the true football simulation" is just pathetic.People do that because they're insecure and/or trolls, lol. You should know that by now man.
FIFA is "sim" like Dr. Seuss is Shakespeare. No strategy and no depth whatsoever. FIFA is a child's toy of a game, designed for kids and adult gamers who know little about football. It's been that way for years, and it's been that way with all of EA's games since forever.
THAT SAID... I'm playing FIFA 12 and enjoying it for what it is. Some aspects of the game are quite spectacular even. And no question whatsoever that it's the better game this year. But not because it's sim (lol), but because it's not a frustrating, out-of-date, broken mess like PES 2012. Konami needs to get their act together. They're being crushed by a game designed for adolescents.
Sabatasso
09-11-2011, 11:25
@abu97;
When I played full time, I could also curl the ball more or less into the same spot of the goal during training. The difference is doing it in a match, with pressure from defenders. If it was that easy, VDV would have 16 goals instead of 6 this season.
And if you let go of the sprint button every once in a while, the AI in pes will behave less frantic, making the pace of the game much better. Just sprint when you need to sprint, this way your team won't all be knackered in the 75th minute either.
Sprinting invites direct physical pressure, normal running invites hold up play. Combine them, and you'll have a better paced game on your hands.
@baangus
I also enjoy FIFA12, I don't hate it. But if I had to choose one of the two, I'd stick with PES. In a two player scenario, either game is fine and gives much fun. Player vs. AI is somewhat better in PES, especially thanks to yair12 and jenkey1002. That is my opinion at least, disagreeing is just fine too.
Steve Justice
09-11-2011, 11:32
The only time I use sprint is down the wings, if there is space and is necessary to do so or if I play a good through ball. The less you sprint, the more control you have over the ball, especially in the middle of the park. I trust this is typical in both PES & Fifa.
I also enjoy FIFA12, I don't hate it. But if I had to choose one of the two, I'd stick with PES. In a two player scenario, either game is fine and gives much fun. Player vs. AI is somewhat better in PES, especially thanks to yair12 and jenkey1002. That is my opinion at least, disagreeing is just fine too.That's the thing with PES unfortunately. One has to look past the many flaws and TRY and enjoy it every year. I did that with PES 2011 and ended up loving the game (but only after massive global edits and yair's gameplay patch though). Just can't do it anymore with this series I guess. No more half-baked, untested games for me. Too fed up with Konami's one step forward and two steps backward every year.
Fifa has outsold PES 25 to 1. I guess that the 25 represents fools and idiots who knows nothing about football games and the 1 is the really smart ones who really knows how to choose the best game on the market. :laugh:So let's see... the number of children and teenage button jockeys with Mom and Dad's disposible income to spend, outnumber intelligent, sports-savvy adult gamers by probably 40 to 1. And you use that logic as a reason why FIFA outsells PES? Not that I'm fooled by any of that nonsense you spouted. Way too transparent. You're just trolling obviously, and any argument will do no matter how banal and moronic, just as long as it stirs things up.
Oh and :laugh: right back at ya chuckles. Come back when you're ready to discuss things like an adult.
to be honest, all the footballers say fifa 12 is a truly great game and they are not kids. They are not spectators but they still know the meaning of football. 25/1 does make fifa sound like a pick up and play game but a lot of fifa gamers are crap at fifa but just buy it because of their friends or it's one of the best. FIFA is a great game supplying more freedom but less in player individuality eventhough pes only have 4 dribbling styles. But i don't think it should deserve the reputation it's getting at the moment
But i don't think it should deserve the reputation it's getting at the momentWhat do you mean by reputation? It's a fine game as far as animations, graphics and online play goes. And the manual shooting engine > PES by miles. But other than that, the game is exactly as advertized. The CPU god mode gameplay is completely over-the-top, there's no strategic depth, every team plays the exact same run-and-gun style, etc. It's the same game it's been for years, which is why it has the reputation it does. It never changes. And EA designs it that way specifically because they know it will sell. It's a game for designed for the online button jockey crowd. It's all looks and little substance, the Kim Kardashian of sports games.
to be honest, all the footballers say fifa 12 is a truly great game and they are not kids.No. Go to an actual adult game discussion site like OS and most of the talk is about how disappointing FIFA is yet again, given it's such a beautiful game, etc.
Anysecondnow
09-11-2011, 14:00
Played FIFA, Playing PES....PES wins hands down...enjoying the game alot more since the patch.
Played FIFA, Playing PES....PES wins hands down...Nothing to win or lose IMO. One game (FIFA) is shallow, beautiful but works. The other (PES) is strategically deep, butt ugly and broken. Really just a case of pick your poison if anything.
Anysecondnow
09-11-2011, 14:08
Nothing to win or lose IMO. One game (FIFA) is shallow, beautiful but works. The other (PES) is strategically deep, butt ugly and broken. Really just a case of pick your poison if anything.
Exactly...matter of opinion
What do you mean by reputation? It's a fine game as far as animations, graphics and online play goes. And the manual shooting engine > PES by miles. But other than that, the game is exactly as advertized. The CPU god mode gameplay is completely over-the-top, there's no strategic depth, every team plays the exact same run-and-gun style, etc. It's the same game it's been for years, which is why it has the reputation it does. It never changes. And EA designs it that way specifically because they know it will sell. It's a game for designed for the online button jockey crowd. It's all looks and little substance, the Kim Kardashian of sports games.
When i mean reputation, i mean it doesn't deserve ratings like 9.5/10
When i mean reputation, i mean it doesn't deserve ratings like 9.5/10Oops, ha-ha! Thought you were wondering why it wasn't getting more love. It gets 9.5 because it animates well and has few decent things going for it. But most of all it looks real pretty, something our vapid 21st century society goes nuts over.
Sabatasso
10-11-2011, 01:13
Fifa has outsold PES 25 to 1. I guess that the 25 represents fools and idiots who knows nothing about football games and the 1 is the really smart ones who really knows how to choose the best game on the market. :laugh:
That is probably one of the dumbest statements you have ever made, OCKRASS. Do you know how a big marketing budget, and TV commercials affect sales? How many PES12 TV commercials have you seen lately?
FIFA12 commercials is seen in every other commercial break, while PES12 has none.
And the jungle telegraph on the fifa boards scare away potential PES customers before they've even tried the game. Most of them speaking from hearsay rather than personal experience, because "everybody" knows that "PES sucks."
You're almost religious in your pes hatred, why don't you go and get yourself some godly input in a church instead, and leave us be?
muscularmatt
10-11-2011, 01:27
How many times do we have to go through this?? If you think FIFA is better than PES, then you're a child molesterer. Simple as.
It's a well known researched fact that FIFA players are chav unemployed little mummy's boys, who are 99% more likely to sexually abuse animals, and whose daily diet includes lots of blue smarties and fizzy pop.
Meanwhile, MORI conducted a poll into PES players and found that they had really good sex lives, a gorgeous partner and had a full time job. They also concluded that PES players had a wide spectrum of friends, a car that rocked, were popular in school, were successful in sport and generally just kicked ass in everything they touched.
True, that.
:laugh:
Now that was truly funny! I fell off my chair laughing at that.
Cheers
That is probably one of the dumbest statements you have ever made, OCKRASS. Do you know how a big marketing budget, and TV commercials affect sales? How many PES12 TV commercials have you seen lately?
FIFA12 commercials is seen in every other commercial break, while PES12 has none.
And the jungle telegraph on the fifa boards scare away potential PES customers before they've even tried the game. Most of them speaking from hearsay rather than personal experience, because "everybody" knows that "PES sucks."
You're almost religious in your pes hatred, why don't you go and get yourself some godly input in a church instead, and leave us be?
Sup Sabassto,
Here you go again with all that utter sheit.
I don't get your point...are you saying EA should not advertise their product?
Are you saying that EA is only selling more than PES because PES does not advertise their product?
or ..are you saying that because EA advertises so much, we are all just dumb brainless idiots that just run out and buy Fifa regardless of its content?
Well guess what those EA furckers caught me with my pants down bro and so did Activision's Call of Duty with Modern Warfare and Battlefield 3 and Gears of War and Drake Uncharted. ...the list goes on. Do you blame these producers too? Are these games also shit because you don't like it?
Do you know how stupid you sound bro.....How old are you?
"..Leave us be" ?? who are you referring to as "us". Talk for yourself man and leave others out of it.
peace
...And you use that logic as a reason why FIFA outsells PES? You're just trolling obviously, and any argument will do no matter how banal and moronic, just as long as it stirs things up.
Sup bag anus,
How is it trolling when the thread is clearly name PES 2012 vs Fifa 2012?
Who am i trolling on PES or Fifa.....? Try to figure it out, believe me its not a trick question.
Jesaas another noobster with sheit for brains. :w00t
Do you guys all live in the same house?
Well, maybe somebody should check for a gas leak.
Idiots i tell ya. :crymore:
pathetic :no:
bag anus
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
techboy11
10-11-2011, 08:09
The biggest mistake Konami made is listening too much to the feedback (for the wrong things).
To me PES2012 is a step back from PES2011, which was quite good although it had very obvious flaws.
The latest version isn't too bad, but it could be much better.
Konami launched two demo's and has been listening to the fans...you only have to look at this thread to know that it is almost impossible to get real, clear, positive feedback from the end users...some people love it (some people love everything Konami does, there ar people in this thread who have loved each single version of PES2012: demo 1, demo 2, version 1.00, version 1.01 and version 1.02..that is very weird because the differences are huge). I haven't played demo 1, but i still think the best version is demo 2...other people will prefer demo 1 or version 1.01 or version 1.02...how is it possible to do something with all this inconsistent feedback?
Konami stop listening to the fans concerning gameplay and just build further upon PES2011...(but of course that is also only one voice).
I do think there is an element of truth in that, but a company like KONAMI should be bolder, and not radically change the gameplay so much from demo 1 and 2 to this mess of a hybrid we have now.
KONAMI this year has smacked of not doing what the fk is going on themselves, it's like they released the two demo's to get huge amounts of feedback because they really didn't know what they had on their hands and what direction to take PES.
I genuinely think they were lost this year. The ironic part is that as people have touched upon, I loved demo 1 and 2. They were different from each other yes, but if they had released either of them as retail I think I would have been much happier than what we have now. I played those two demos to fkin death, my missus was absolutely sick to the stomach of Ribbery, Robben, Bale and Eto, and was sick at the sound of me yelling at the tv when Jelavic scored another superb header. Those games got caned.
But KONAMI didn't have any balls this year; they should have said, right this is what the game is (demo 1/2), we will listen to feedback in terms of subleties like shots, passing etc etc and general ball physics. But we don't give a toss about user input with regards to gameplay. If they were going to go away from PES2011, they should have just taken the plunge and jumped, all in.
I had so much fun trying to beat Napoli, I went a run of about 15 games once where I just couldn't beat them, then I discovered the perfect tactic against them and the sense of achievement was palpable. Man, those Napoli front three caused me fkin hours of headaches!
But you know what, I loved the challenge. The CPU would cane me, 3-0, 4-0, but I never had the feeling of injustice, not as much as when I WIN 2-1 NOW, but get pissed off cos even that CPU goal was scripted.
The game is a combination of everything now, that's why it's not pleasing anyone. It's like demo 1 and 2 mashed together, with elements of PES2011 (good and bad, sim like on times but players on rails), and now we have a further mash of patches.
I'm no programmer genius, but even I can conclude that this situation ain't good!?!
Seriously now peeps, a straw poll....how many, given the chance right now, would just prefer KONAMI to give is demo 1 or 2, and just scrap what they have now? I'd guess quite a few.
Listen I can play the game and get some enjoyment out of it, it's in the form of a highly modded 1.01 with Jenkey's stuff going on.
But even I would prefer the feel and playability of the demos compared to what we have now.
I don't think KONAMI are decisive enough anymore, it's like everyone in their development team is shit scared to make a decision, shit scared to question Seabass, shit scared to say right this is the way we are going; if half the PES fuckers don't like it then fuck them. But this is the route we're going down and they'll thank us for it in the end!
What we have is a rabbit in the headlight approach, where they are all peeping over the duvet, testing, probing, taking EVERYTHING we say to heart because they are shit scared of FIFA and its sales!
There's no logic to KONAMI and no long term thinking. Where people are angry is the apparent lack of focus and direction - why release PES 2011 and make it what it was, if PES 2012 was going to be so different? For many, what was needed was PES 2011, just smoother and more consistent, with all the shitty CPU cheating taken out. Make it nicer, then spend the other 9 months just tinkering with it to make a perfect PES2011 for PES2012.
What they did was totally change the game....well why release PES 2011 as it was in the first place?!? What, their forward planning lasts a year at a time does it? Well change it they did, but even worse than that they then changed it radically again from the demos that were served up....aaaarrrrggghhhhh.
Man, PES could really have shat all over FIFA this year, this was their BIG YEAR to get it right, they should have sensed a split in the FIFA ranks early doors and said you know what, FIFA is going to hugely split their community this year, many, many people will be looking for an alternative, now let's bring back PES and get back those lost supporters who deserted us for FIFA 09. They should have said we've got them by the balls in terms of gameplay and AI, let's now make this game accessible, let's make it polished, let's get a finished, gleaming gem out, out of the box and let's get it right for a fking change! This quaint, little Japanese, oh look how retro everything looks, oh bless them, bollocks has got to stop. It's just not good enough in this day and age of NBA 2k11, Uncharted 3, Battlefield etc etc. FIFA probably gets 2 million sales alone for having the shiny Sky Sports style presentation. Fk me, even that KONAMI baseball game they released looks the real deal...so why not making the biggest sports game in the world look good!?!?
Oh man, KONAMI irritate me so much....
Listen I'm a PES man, always have been always will be. Call me blind, call me what you want, but I can always get something out of the game. This was THE YEAR that KONAMI were going to give us something back, fk me they owe us one...in fact they owe us two, for the rubbish that was churned out at the start of next gen. KONAMI could have made a serious dent into FIFA this year, and next year could have been a serious move to parity with FIFA. I firmly believe that EA are running out of ideas with regards to their game engine, I don't think they have something different in their locker, I think they know that, but they also know that KONAMI have the undoubted ability to fk up a cup of coffee, and it's proving so again.
I am entitled to my opinion; this year I shelled out £40 for the US version just to play it two weeks before release, then a further £40 for the UK version...I then shelled out £30 for the PC version, so that's £110 of my money that is funding KONAMI. But the vast majority going forward aren't going to be like me, they are going to say times are hard right now, I have one footy purchase in me this year, what will it be? And for all it's shitty gameplay and glitches, FIFA will probably be people's choice during these hard times because everything is an accessible 6/10. It's a dull, soulless product which will continue to sell so long as KONAMI don't have any clue in which to take the PES series.
aerynwait
10-11-2011, 08:10
I really enjoy playing FIFA.
Sabatasso
10-11-2011, 09:57
Sup Sabassto,
Here you go again with all that utter sheit.
Right back at you... Your drivel is unreflected slander. I'm not gonna say more about that, so you can ponder what I mean.
I don't get your point...are you saying EA should not advertise their product?
No, that's not what I am saying...
Are you saying that EA is only selling more than PES because PES does not advertise their product?
Bingo
or ..are you saying that because EA advertises so much, we are all just dumb brainless idiots that just run out and buy Fifa regardless of its content?
Most of us are, honestly. Why do you think commercial spots sell in the first place?
Well guess what those EA furckers caught me with my pants down bro and so did Activision's Call of Duty with Modern Warfare and Battlefield 3 and Gears of War and Drake Uncharted. ...the list goes on. Do you blame these producers too? Are these games also shit because you don't like it?
I guess so. You take everything a bit too literal, though. But your posts in general reflects that you're a black or white person. Something either sucks, or is great. Nothing in between...
Do you know how stupid you sound bro.....How old are you?
Ignorance is bliss, right Ocky?
"..Leave us be" ?? who are you referring to as "us". Talk for yourself man and leave others out of it.
peace
That's what I usually tell religious people, when they're trying to fill my day with babble.
How is it trolling when the thread is clearly name PES 2012 vs Fifa 2012?I told you to come back when you're man enough to have an honest adult conversation. Stop your trolling, grow up, get real, and then we'll talk.
I really enjoy playing FIFA.So am I. But I also really enjoyed driving my Renault Le Car in my 20s -- bombed around, had great fun, etc. But I always knew what it was. And it sure wasn't anything like the Honda Civic I drive now. That Renault was a toy car in comparison.
saw boss
10-11-2011, 16:35
FIFA is good for a quick game, anyhing longer than an hour and it just gets dull and very very repetitive.
I agree PES is far from perfect, it has some many things that frustrate the hell out of me, But i can live with the short commings.
FIFA on the other hand i cant, All the problems FIFA have had are all still present and in my opinion the faults with FIFA are not worth putting up with.
christoph2011
10-11-2011, 17:56
simple way to put it
pes will always have better gameplay which makes it a better game
fifa will always have the licences thats all they got on pes
muscularmatt
10-11-2011, 18:05
Multiple posts in a row from the same user are not allowed, friends. Try and keep it under control.
Gameplay of Pro Evolution Soccer 5.
Smoothness on the ball and passing of FIFA 11/12.
Licenses and commentary of FIFA.
Graphics and everything else of PES 2012.
That would make the perfect football game.
g221911g
10-11-2011, 19:51
simpleton way to put it
pes will always have better gameplay which makes it a better game
fifa will always have the licences thats all they got on pes
Fixed it for you ;)
The fact that PES used to outsell FIFA in the UK and is now getting obliterated is a bit of a statement IMO.
It's not like FIFA didn't have all the licenses and advertising when they were getting beaten. So nothing's changed......except consumer opinion
markcross
10-11-2011, 20:04
Multiple posts in a row from the same user are not allowed, friends. Try and keep it under control.
admin wannabe lol
He's not an admin, He's the People's Champ
MozzyEng
10-11-2011, 20:18
Fifa reminds me of a women i once knew. She had a great pair of tits, a nice arse but she was a twat!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8IZGl4vqQ&NR=1
Fifa's wonderful impact engine
Makavelian
11-11-2011, 00:35
Fifa is Totally gnarlty dude. i've got every version since 98
Right back at you... Your drivel is unreflected slander. I'm not gonna say more about that, so you can ponder what I mean..
I am a 4 year university graduate bro.....so don't try that!
I guess so. You take everything a bit too literal, though. But your posts in general reflects that you're a black or white person. Something either sucks, or is great. Nothing in between....
Hmmm, taking it racial now? So if you are black ...your life sucks right?
Really?:w00t
Well i am black......
What color are you?
That's what I usually tell religious people, when they're trying to fill my day with babble.
I should try that. :blush:
I do think there is an element of truth in that, but a company like KONAMI should be bolder, and not radically change the gameplay so much from demo 1 and 2 to this mess of a hybrid we have now.
KONAMI this year has smacked of not doing what the fk is going on themselves, it's like they released the two demo's to get huge amounts of feedback because they really didn't know what they had on their hands and what direction to take PES.
I genuinely think they were lost this year. The ironic part is that as people have touched upon, I loved demo 1 and 2. They were different from each other yes, but if they had released either of them as retail I think I would have been much happier than what we have now. I played those two demos to fkin death, my missus was absolutely sick to the stomach of Ribbery, Robben, Bale and Eto, and was sick at the sound of me yelling at the tv when Jelavic scored another superb header. Those games got caned.
But KONAMI didn't have any balls this year; they should have said, right this is what the game is (demo 1/2), we will listen to feedback in terms of subtleties like shots, passing etc etc and general ball physics. But we don't give a toss about user input with regards to gameplay. If they were going to go away from PES2011, they should have just taken the plunge and jumped, all in.
I had so much fun trying to beat Napoli, I went a run of about 15 games once where I just couldn't beat them, then I discovered the perfect tactic against them and the sense of achievement was palpable. Man, those Napoli front three caused me fkin hours of headaches!
But you know what, I loved the challenge. The CPU would cane me, 3-0, 4-0, but I never had the feeling of injustice, not as much as when I WIN 2-1 NOW, but get pissed off cos even that CPU goal was scripted.
The game is a combination of everything now, that's why it's not pleasing anyone. It's like demo 1 and 2 mashed together, with elements of PES2011 (good and bad, sim like on times but players on rails), and now we have a further mash of patches.
I'm no programmer genius, but even I can conclude that this situation ain't good!?!
Seriously now peeps, a straw poll....how many, given the chance right now, would just prefer KONAMI to give is demo 1 or 2, and just scrap what they have now? I'd guess quite a few.
Listen I can play the game and get some enjoyment out of it, it's in the form of a highly modded 1.01 with Jenkey's stuff going on.
But even I would prefer the feel and playability of the demos compared to what we have now.
I don't think KONAMI are decisive enough anymore, it's like everyone in their development team is shit scared to make a decision, shit scared to question Seabass, shit scared to say right this is the way we are going; if half the PES fuckers don't like it then fuck them. But this is the route we're going down and they'll thank us for it in the end!
What we have is a rabbit in the headlight approach, where they are all peeping over the duvet, testing, probing, taking EVERYTHING we say to heart because they are shit scared of FIFA and its sales!
There's no logic to KONAMI and no long term thinking. Where people are angry is the apparent lack of focus and direction - why release PES 2011 and make it what it was, if PES 2012 was going to be so different? For many, what was needed was PES 2011, just smoother and more consistent, with all the shitty CPU cheating taken out. Make it nicer, then spend the other 9 months just tinkering with it to make a perfect PES2011 for PES2012.
What they did was totally change the game....well why release PES 2011 as it was in the first place?!? What, their forward planning lasts a year at a time does it? Well change it they did, but even worse than that they then changed it radically again from the demos that were served up....aaaarrrrggghhhhh.
Man, PES could really have shat all over FIFA this year, this was their BIG YEAR to get it right, they should have sensed a split in the FIFA ranks early doors and said you know what, FIFA is going to hugely split their community this year, many, many people will be looking for an alternative, now let's bring back PES and get back those lost supporters who deserted us for FIFA 09. They should have said we've got them by the balls in terms of gameplay and AI, let's now make this game accessible, let's make it polished, let's get a finished, gleaming gem out, out of the box and let's get it right for a fking change! This quaint, little Japanese, oh look how retro everything looks, oh bless them, bollocks has got to stop. It's just not good enough in this day and age of NBA 2k11, Uncharted 3, Battlefield etc etc. FIFA probably gets 2 million sales alone for having the shiny Sky Sports style presentation. Fk me, even that KONAMI baseball game they released looks the real deal...so why not making the biggest sports game in the world look good!?!?
Oh man, KONAMI irritate me so much....
Listen I'm a PES man, always have been always will be. Call me blind, call me what you want, but I can always get something out of the game. This was THE YEAR that KONAMI were going to give us something back, fk me they owe us one...in fact they owe us two, for the rubbish that was churned out at the start of next gen. KONAMI could have made a serious dent into FIFA this year, and next year could have been a serious move to parity with FIFA. I firmly believe that EA are running out of ideas with regards to their game engine, I don't think they have something different in their locker, I think they know that, but they also know that KONAMI have the undoubted ability to fk up a cup of coffee, and it's proving so again.
I am entitled to my opinion; this year I shelled out £40 for the US version just to play it two weeks before release, then a further £40 for the UK version...I then shelled out £30 for the PC version, so that's £110 of my money that is funding KONAMI. But the vast majority going forward aren't going to be like me, they are going to say times are hard right now, I have one footy purchase in me this year, what will it be? And for all it's shitty gameplay and glitches, FIFA will probably be people's choice during these hard times because everything is an accessible 6/10. It's a dull, soulless product which will continue to sell so long as KONAMI don't have any clue in which to take the PES series.
100% agree.
I could not have put it any better. My two cents is that Seabass should be replaced or Konami should move the PES series to another third party developer.
Good post bro.
the only real flaw that I could think of in 2011 was the catch up bug, and the floating ball effect. All Konami had to do is address these 2 issues, add the off ball control and new tackling system and they would have had a gem of a game for 2012
orlandoSPUR
11-11-2011, 15:46
I am a 4 year university graduate bro.....so don't try that!
Hmmm, taking it racial now? So if you are black ...your life sucks right?
Really?:w00t
Well i am black......
What color are you?
Clearly he wasn't saying anything racial at all... He was saying you see things either in black or white,Nothing in between...like saying you see something from the perspective of a glass half full or half empty
I should try that. :blush:[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, taking it racial now? So if you are black ...your life sucks right?
Really?:w00t
Well i am black......Let's see:
- You say you're black.
- Your life sucks so bad apparently that you have nothing better to do than troll game forums and post idiotically childish comments like the one above.
So are you telling us your being black and miserable is the reason for your ridiculous behavior?
I could not have put it any better. My two cents is that Seabass should be replaced or Konami should move the PES series to another third party developer.
Good post bro.Amazing, there's a discerning mind behind all that trolling and baiting BS after all.
markcross
11-11-2011, 18:14
I am a 4 year university graduate bro.....so don't try that!
Hmmm, taking it racial now? So if you are black ...your life sucks right?
Really?:w00t
Well i am black......
What color are you?
I should try that. :blush:
considering u hav a 4 year degree u cum across as a right idoit with no common sense wot so ever, and tryin to wave the racist card lol, everyone else could see what the other guy meant yet u try to twist his words... grow up son
the only real flaw that I could think of in 2011 was the catch up bug, and the floating ball effect. All Konami had to do is address these 2 issues, add the off ball control and new tackling system and they would have had a gem of a game for 2012
So you didn't mind your cb's running away from every through ball, half your team beign offside, cutting in with a player like David Villa as if he was a double-decker bus, Every player being so heavy, no feeling in passing or shooting, no responsiveness in total, shooting being too easy, not being able to pass to a player right next you.
If you say you didn't have any problems with the issues i mentioned, you definitely are a die-hard pes fan
Mr Maverick
12-11-2011, 00:04
I do think there is an element of truth in that, but a company like KONAMI should be bolder, and not radically change the gameplay so much from demo 1 and 2 to this mess of a hybrid we have now.
KONAMI this year has smacked of not doing what the fk is going on themselves, it's like they released the two demo's to get huge amounts of feedback because they really didn't know what they had on their hands and what direction to take PES.
I genuinely think they were lost this year. The ironic part is that as people have touched upon, I loved demo 1 and 2. They were different from each other yes, but if they had released either of them as retail I think I would have been much happier than what we have now. I played those two demos to fkin death, my missus was absolutely sick to the stomach of Ribbery, Robben, Bale and Eto, and was sick at the sound of me yelling at the tv when Jelavic scored another superb header. Those games got caned.
But KONAMI didn't have any balls this year; they should have said, right this is what the game is (demo 1/2), we will listen to feedback in terms of subleties like shots, passing etc etc and general ball physics. But we don't give a toss about user input with regards to gameplay. If they were going to go away from PES2011, they should have just taken the plunge and jumped, all in.
I had so much fun trying to beat Napoli, I went a run of about 15 games once where I just couldn't beat them, then I discovered the perfect tactic against them and the sense of achievement was palpable. Man, those Napoli front three caused me fkin hours of headaches!
But you know what, I loved the challenge. The CPU would cane me, 3-0, 4-0, but I never had the feeling of injustice, not as much as when I WIN 2-1 NOW, but get pissed off cos even that CPU goal was scripted.
The game is a combination of everything now, that's why it's not pleasing anyone. It's like demo 1 and 2 mashed together, with elements of PES2011 (good and bad, sim like on times but players on rails), and now we have a further mash of patches.
I'm no programmer genius, but even I can conclude that this situation ain't good!?!
Seriously now peeps, a straw poll....how many, given the chance right now, would just prefer KONAMI to give is demo 1 or 2, and just scrap what they have now? I'd guess quite a few.
Listen I can play the game and get some enjoyment out of it, it's in the form of a highly modded 1.01 with Jenkey's stuff going on.
But even I would prefer the feel and playability of the demos compared to what we have now.
I don't think KONAMI are decisive enough anymore, it's like everyone in their development team is shit scared to make a decision, shit scared to question Seabass, shit scared to say right this is the way we are going; if half the PES fuckers don't like it then fuck them. But this is the route we're going down and they'll thank us for it in the end!
What we have is a rabbit in the headlight approach, where they are all peeping over the duvet, testing, probing, taking EVERYTHING we say to heart because they are shit scared of FIFA and its sales!
There's no logic to KONAMI and no long term thinking. Where people are angry is the apparent lack of focus and direction - why release PES 2011 and make it what it was, if PES 2012 was going to be so different? For many, what was needed was PES 2011, just smoother and more consistent, with all the shitty CPU cheating taken out. Make it nicer, then spend the other 9 months just tinkering with it to make a perfect PES2011 for PES2012.
What they did was totally change the game....well why release PES 2011 as it was in the first place?!? What, their forward planning lasts a year at a time does it? Well change it they did, but even worse than that they then changed it radically again from the demos that were served up....aaaarrrrggghhhhh.
Man, PES could really have shat all over FIFA this year, this was their BIG YEAR to get it right, they should have sensed a split in the FIFA ranks early doors and said you know what, FIFA is going to hugely split their community this year, many, many people will be looking for an alternative, now let's bring back PES and get back those lost supporters who deserted us for FIFA 09. They should have said we've got them by the balls in terms of gameplay and AI, let's now make this game accessible, let's make it polished, let's get a finished, gleaming gem out, out of the box and let's get it right for a fking change! This quaint, little Japanese, oh look how retro everything looks, oh bless them, bollocks has got to stop. It's just not good enough in this day and age of NBA 2k11, Uncharted 3, Battlefield etc etc. FIFA probably gets 2 million sales alone for having the shiny Sky Sports style presentation. Fk me, even that KONAMI baseball game they released looks the real deal...so why not making the biggest sports game in the world look good!?!?
Oh man, KONAMI irritate me so much....
Listen I'm a PES man, always have been always will be. Call me blind, call me what you want, but I can always get something out of the game. This was THE YEAR that KONAMI were going to give us something back, fk me they owe us one...in fact they owe us two, for the rubbish that was churned out at the start of next gen. KONAMI could have made a serious dent into FIFA this year, and next year could have been a serious move to parity with FIFA. I firmly believe that EA are running out of ideas with regards to their game engine, I don't think they have something different in their locker, I think they know that, but they also know that KONAMI have the undoubted ability to fk up a cup of coffee, and it's proving so again.
I am entitled to my opinion; this year I shelled out £40 for the US version just to play it two weeks before release, then a further £40 for the UK version...I then shelled out £30 for the PC version, so that's £110 of my money that is funding KONAMI. But the vast majority going forward aren't going to be like me, they are going to say times are hard right now, I have one footy purchase in me this year, what will it be? And for all it's shitty gameplay and glitches, FIFA will probably be people's choice during these hard times because everything is an accessible 6/10. It's a dull, soulless product which will continue to sell so long as KONAMI don't have any clue in which to take the PES series.
I agree this much, its not even funny.
Konami have given us so many amazing games over the years.......but I think its time to part ways with the series, they have no idea where to go with this and they seem so clueless now, PES 2012, I so WANTED to love it but...I just can't, too frustrating, too scripted, too outright ridiculous at times.
Konami should just give the series to the 2K Sports team tbh, being a huge fan of NBA 2K11 and 12 and seeing the quality jobs they did with MLB and NFL, they should just give PES to them and have them bring the series back to where it SHOULD be now
muscularmatt
12-11-2011, 03:09
Everyone in this thread sucks donkey boner, apart from me.
And maybe Maka. If he's nice.
g221911g
12-11-2011, 03:16
I agree this much, its not even funny.
Konami have given us so many amazing games over the years.......but I think its time to part ways with the series, they have no idea where to go with this and they seem so clueless now, PES 2012, I so WANTED to love it but...I just can't, too frustrating, too scripted, too outright ridiculous at times.
Konami should just give the series to the 2K Sports team tbh, being a huge fan of NBA 2K11 and 12 and seeing the quality jobs they did with MLB and NFL, they should just give PES to them and have them bring the series back to where it SHOULD be now
Techboy's post; and this.
considering u hav a 4 year degree u cum across as a right idoit with no common sense wot so ever, and tryin to wave the racist card lol, everyone else could see what the other guy meant yet u try to twist his words... grow up son
Although I know you of all persons probably won't understand the importance of school since it is clear you have evaded them at all cost....A 4 year degree enhances knowledge and awareness plus some.
..and to all...Although I am aware that his statement was not probably racial, it still clearly indicates the logic or idea of equating anything that is black as bad or in his words "sucks" and anything that is white as good "great".
"..But your posts in general reflects that you're a black or white person. Something either sucks, or is great. Nothing in between....?
In today's world a statement like that is regarded as disrespectful and offensive in many ways to people.
There are many other ways to he could have made his point...i felt.
I for one like to point those backward statements when i see them anywhere.
But because i prefer Fifa over PES ....everyone jumps on my ass for pointing it out.
fucking noobs i tell ya :realmad:
Have John Terry and Anton Ferdinand joined this forum?
Sabatasso
12-11-2011, 10:48
..and to all...Although I am aware that his statement was not probably racial, it still clearly indicates the logic or idea of equating anything that is black as bad or in his words "sucks" and anything that is white as good "great".
"..But your posts in general reflects that you're a black or white person. Something either sucks, or is great. Nothing in between....?
If you look for racism with Argus eyes, you will find it everywhere. Chess, why does white always start? RACISM!!!! Piano, why are there more ivory than ebony? RACISM!!!!!!
There is one thing I hate more than zealous religious people, and it's racism card bashers. Seeing racism where there is none is just pathetic.
PS. I was clearly going for an ink and paper analogy, everyone but you and your failed "4 year degree powered" analyze could see that.
If you look for racism with Argus eyes, you will find it everywhere. Chess, why does white always start? RACISM!!!! Piano, why are there more ivory than ebony? RACISM!!!!!!
There is one thing I hate more than zealous religious people, and it's racism card bashers. Seeing racism where there is none is just pathetic.
PS. I was clearly going for an ink and paper analogy, everyone but you and your failed "4 year degree powered" analyze could see that.
Ink and paper my ass!
Your comment (whatever the intention) clearly states one thing....
I see things in black and white .....black being bad and white being good.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that what you stated is fucked up.
don't try to waste your time with me bro.....i think you are racist.
if you had said that around where I live, you would have gotten punched in the throat immediately....fool.
Ink and paper shit .....why didn't you say that in the first place? :angry:
biaach
Sabatasso
12-11-2011, 12:40
It's a common analogy dating from before african mass slavery you dimwitted dillweed. Educated my ass...
don't try to waste your time with me bro.....i think you are racist.
You're not even close, in fact I like both Latinos and Negroes quite much in general. I don't really worry about color when picking friends. I doubt you and me would go along well, though...
It's a common analogy dating from before african mass slavery..
in fact I like both Latinos and Negroes quite much in general. ...
Listen to this idiot. Is that how you refer to blacks now....negroes?
I think you meant niggaz...
Spoken like a true racist.
Punk ass
MozzyEng
12-11-2011, 17:26
Listen to this idiot. Is that how you refer to blacks now....negroes?
I think you meant niggaz...
Spoken like a true racist.
Punk ass
Lol. Negroes. whats racist about that? Funny old world innit. If i said nigger id be a racist bastard, But when a black person calls another black person nigger which a lot of them do in america its ok. The race card element arises again!
Sabatasso
12-11-2011, 18:10
Listen to this idiot. Is that how you refer to blacks now....negroes?
I think you meant niggaz...
Spoken like a true racist.
Punk ass
Need I mention that Spurs, my team, is also nicknamed "Yids", and that Spurs has relatively many "deep colored" (satisfied?) players. Many of which are among my favorite players, I might add.
The only reason why I actually bother to defend myself against your pathetic postings is because I like to bicker. I actually called your bluff several posts ago, and you have to do a lot better to actually antagonize me. I actually doubt that someone with 4 years of higher education (yay!) can actually be as stupid as you act right now. But on the other hand, education is not an IQ proof either, it's just a proof that you can read and remember stuff for a few weeks until the exam is done. I know, because I have some education myself ;)
Anyway, I can understand that there are racists in the world when idiots like you are around. You alone would be reason enough for certain people to hate an entire race. At least if you're anything like you act on this board...
PS. Negro means "Black" in Spanish, hardly a racist word is it? Afro American isn't a good name, hardly all Negroes are Americans with an African heritage.
And lowering myself your standards, I have way more black clothes than white, because I prefer black over white. That must mean that I am not a racist at all... By the looks of it, I am a Negro lover, actually.
I do like Negresses when I think about it...a lot.
g221911g
12-11-2011, 18:56
There is one thing I hate more than zealous religious people, and it's racism card bashers. Seeing racism where there is none is just pathetic.
Why did I even step into this...
Let me preface by saying I don't think you meant to be racist with the 'black and white' comment. But.......
This is an interesting statement. I have some genuine questions: So you hate a racism-card-basher more than a racist? (and if this is true) Do you hate people that falsely accuse others of rape MORE than rapists as well? I'm just wondering if this logic applies across the board in your life or if it's something specific to racism. According to that list, the best (worst) a racist could be is third. And looking at the first two on your list, I doubt it's that high. (Maybe I'm just reading too much into an overly dramatic statement?)
Honest Question: And what, exactly, is a racism card basher? Is it someone who calls racism when there is none? Or someone who simply calls racism? For that matter, what do you think about people who just throw the term around in an attempt to trivialize legitimate issues?
Also I thought you used a pretty interesting choice of words for your 'latino' and 'negro' friends. Do you call your friends 'negroes' to their faces? Do you call your 'latino' friends 'morenos'? Because that would be the equal term...Or 'African' if we're referring to 'Latino'.
Wow...too much writing, but like I said, all genuine questions.
And Mozzy, I hope you're not serious in that statement. You think a white person calling a black person a nigger is in the same context as a black person who says it to another black person?
Do you find it okay to slag off all races because you've heard 'one of them say it to another'? You go around calling Italians guineas and wops?
I've heard a latino call another a spic, but I don't go around using that as a reason to do it myself.
Maybe I would if I thought like that though. Sounds like an excuse to me.
Imagine that, I should just go around calling white people 'pale', or 'cracker' or 'devil' just because I've heard one of them use it. When confronted with an inevitable racism charge, I'll just say they're using the 'race-card' again.
I think I'm starting to see how this works....
markcross
12-11-2011, 19:30
Why did I even step into this...
Let me preface by saying I don't think you meant to be racist with the 'black and white' comment. But.......
This is an interesting statement. I have some genuine questions: So you hate a racism-card-basher more than a racist? (and if this is true) Do you hate people that falsely accuse others of rape MORE than rapists as well? I'm just wondering if this logic applies across the board in your life or if it's something specific to racism. According to that list, the best (worst) a racist could be is third. And looking at the first two on your list, I doubt it's that high. (Maybe I'm just reading too much into an overly dramatic statement?)
Honest Question: And what, exactly, is a racism card basher? Is it someone who calls racism when there is none? Or someone who simply calls racism? For that matter, what do you think about people who just throw the term around in an attempt to trivialize legitimate issues?
Also I thought you used a pretty interesting choice of words for your 'latino' and 'negro' friends. Do you call your friends 'negroes' to their faces? Do you call your 'latino' friends 'morenos'? Because that would be the equal term...Or 'African' if we're referring to 'Latino'.
Wow...too much writing, but like I said, all genuine questions.
And Mozzy, I hope you're not serious in that statement. You think a white person calling a black person a nigger is in the same context as a black person who says it to another black person?
Do you find it okay to slag off all races because you've heard 'one of them say it to another'? You go around calling Italians guineas and wops?
I've heard a latino call another a spic, but I don't go around using that as a reason to do it myself.
Maybe I would if I thought like that though. Sounds like an excuse to me.
Imagine that, I should just go around calling white people 'pale', or 'cracker' or 'devil' just because I've heard one of them use it. When confronted with an inevitable racism charge, I'll just say they're using the 'race-card' again.
I think I'm starting to see how this works....
o dear, how the hell do u get so off topic in every thread m8, u reallllyyyy need to get out more pal, have u ever had a gf?
g221911g
12-11-2011, 20:00
o dear, how the hell do u get so off topic in every thread m8, u reallllyyyy need to get out more pal, have u ever had a gf?
Thanks for the offer but I would never date a girl as stupid as you.
Plus, my wife gets upset when I have other girls...keep searching. I'm sure you'll find the right guy somewhere.
Read the posts before mine. I can't believe how utterly stupid you are. Aren't you embarrassed?
markcross
12-11-2011, 20:02
[QUOTE=g221911g;1849508]Thanks for the offer but I would never date a girl as stupid as you.
so i take it thats a no then haha
watty1877
12-11-2011, 20:05
Sorry only just looked at this thread and I have to comment quickly. How in hell does anyone see Sabatasso's statement as racism? It was and is perfectly clear that he means paper / ink. And so agrees the bloke sat right next to me here chuckling to himself about the whole thing... Who is bytheway, black.
Some folks just can't wait to appear 'holier than thou' with PC bullshit.
g221911g
12-11-2011, 20:17
so i take it thats a no then haha
Yes, that's a no to you asking me out ''''haha''''
Seriously, how stupid are you? I just told you I had a WIFE you complete muppet.
But I guess you enjoy chatting with me so much that you will make up lies just to speak with me. Like you saying I'm off topic all the time, when 99% of my posts are on topic.
Keep going though, it's entertaining to see you reach so hard and fall on your face.
techboy11
12-11-2011, 20:37
Uh, I've been busy for a day or so, have I stepped into the Jeremy Kyle forums lol
markcross
12-11-2011, 20:47
Yes, that's a no to you asking me out ''''haha''''
Seriously, how stupid are you? I just told you I had a WIFE you complete muppet.
But I guess you enjoy chatting with me so much that you will make up lies just to speak with me. Like you saying I'm off topic when 99% of my posts are on topic.
Keep going though, it's entertaining to see you reach so hard and fall on your face.
sorry to disappoint u m8y but i hav to go out now, i wil most prob end up crushin pussy, u shud try it sometime, make a nice change from sittin on ur pc on a saturday nite bitchin lol, i bet its thrill a minute for ur mrs with u eh hahaha
g221911g
12-11-2011, 20:53
sorry to disappoint u m8y but i hav to go out now, i wil most prob end up crushin pussy, u shud try it sometime, make a nice change from sittin on ur pc on a saturday nite bitchin lol, i bet its thrill a minute for ur mrs with u eh hahaha
Every post you make is more stupid than the last. I live in California you fucking kermit. Saturday night??? It's 1pm you utter failure. Let me guess, you never knew that the world had different timezones.
And I'm laughing so hard at you 'crushin pussy'. Anybody that talks like that NEVER gets it. Also, I find it funny that you said 'most prob' making it quite clear THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. (You've given yourself away again, kermit)
But good luck, I hope you lose your virginity (to a girl this time); it might mature you a little.
Ink and paper my ass!
Your comment (whatever the intention) clearly states one thing....
I see things in black and white .....black being bad and white being good.No. Seeing things in black any white is about seeing the world only in terms of extremes. You fail again. Life lesson for you: Trying to cover up your original idiotic comment with yet another moronic statement only shows you're not man enough to admit your first mistake. People see right through that stuff bro and it makes you look like a complete fool, twice over.
I can see how a person with a racist attitude or a persecution complex or maybe just anger management issues might try and turn this into an argument about black = bad, white = good. You telling us that's the case with you?
Sabatasso
13-11-2011, 12:55
This is an interesting statement. I have some genuine questions: So you hate a racism-card-basher more than a racist? (and if this is true) Do you hate people that falsely accuse others of rape MORE than rapists as well? I'm just wondering if this logic applies across the board in your life or if it's something specific to racism. According to that list, the best (worst) a racist could be is third. And looking at the first two on your list, I doubt it's that high. (Maybe I'm just reading too much into an overly dramatic statement?)
I don't really have a rated hate list, and "hate" is a strong word that I don't really like to use. In fact, I think everyone has their own interpretation of the word, and this often leads to misunderstandings. I should have said "strongly dislike" instead, because I don't think I am capable of hatred to be honest.
But I'd like to say in my own defense, that both false accusers and perpetrators are on my "dislike" list.
Honest Question: And what, exactly, is a racism card basher? Is it someone who calls racism when there is none? Or someone who simply calls racism? For that matter, what do you think about people who just throw the term around in an attempt to trivialize legitimate issues?
Good question, have you ever heard the term "Bible basher"?
A racism card basher is someone who sees racism where there is none, and defends their claims with weak analyze, possibly plausible but anyone with a right mind sees that it's bullshit.
Also I thought you used a pretty interesting choice of words for your 'latino' and 'negro' friends. Do you call your friends 'negroes' to their faces? Do you call your 'latino' friends 'morenos'? Because that would be the equal term...Or 'African' if we're referring to 'Latino'.
Wow...too much writing, but like I said, all genuine questions.
I call my friends by their name, usually.
But if I was to describe a crime that I witnessed to the police, I would use the term Negro, or possibly black, if the perpetrator was a black person. I would say Caucasian if he was white. I don't know the equal term for Negroes, really. Brown would probably be a term closer to the truth, but I didn't invent the terminology.
And Mozzy, I hope you're not serious in that statement. You think a white person calling a black person a nigger is in the same context as a black person who says it to another black person?
I can't answer for this guy, but I think all sensibility is gone in that discussion, really. I know there's an unwritten rule amongst Afro Americans that one can call the other "Nigga", but it's not OK for a white person to do so. If they don't like it, they should not say it at all, or embrace it and let it be a "legal" nickname for everyone to use. But I don't really care about that discussion, really, I never really use the term myself.
To me, at least, there is a clear difference between Negro and Nigga.
Also, for me at least, Nigga don't really describe race or color, but a way of dressing and musical taste that is also fairly common among white people. I generally call them "Rappers", or "Yo folks", if I need to describe them in any way.
Do you find it okay to slag off all races because you've heard 'one of them say it to another'? You go around calling Italians guineas and wops?
I've heard a latino call another a spic, but I don't go around using that as a reason to do it myself.
Maybe I would if I thought like that though. Sounds like an excuse to me.
Imagine that, I should just go around calling white people 'pale', or 'cracker' or 'devil' just because I've heard one of them use it. When confronted with an inevitable racism charge, I'll just say they're using the 'race-card' again.
I think I'm starting to see how this works....
I'm not sure how much of the above was aimed at me, but in general I don't really care what people call me, and I really expect the same line of thought in return. Those who know my name generally use it, and I don't really give a shit about the rest. "The long haired dude with a big nose" is a description I've heard quite often aimed at me, and I have a mirror so I know it's pretty close to the truth. So I don't generally think they say I have a big nose to be nasty, but rather to describe me close to the actual truth.
So when I say Negro, or Black, I don't put more into it than skin color to be honest.
Not much PES vs FIFA left in this thread, but it's an interesting discussion anyway. At least now that a few sane people joined in.
No. Seeing things in black any white is about seeing the world only in terms of extremes. You fail again. Life lesson for you: Trying to cover up your original idiotic comment with yet another moronic statement only shows you're not man enough to admit your first mistake. People see right through that stuff bro and it makes you look like a complete fool, twice over.
I can see how a person with a racist attitude or a persecution complex or maybe just anger management issues might try and turn this into an argument about black = bad, white = good. You telling us that's the case with you?
Thank you! You're much better with words than I am, clearly.
MozzyEng
13-11-2011, 13:23
And Mozzy, I hope you're not serious in that statement. You think a white person calling a black person a nigger is in the same context as a black person who says it to another black person?
Yes m8 i am serious in my statement, Because its a true statement. No one should use the word nigger no matter what the colour of there skin, Blacks certainly should not say nigger to each other, Then decide thats its racist if a white person says it to them. Btw back on topic Fifa is shit!
Thank you! You're much better with words than I am, clearly.When dealing with forum baiters like this ockrass guy, not sure it matters what you say or how you say it. They don't listen because they're only here to troll.
g221911g
13-11-2011, 16:58
@Sabatasso. Thanks for replying. That wasn't aimed at anyone. I was just asking honest questions and looking for a bit of clarification. I'm glad that you didn't feel attacked and appreciate your honesty (as if I can tell over the internet, but you know what I mean). I was hoping you wouldn't take it the wrong way.
@Mozzy. Very valid point. Well said.
Back to football
markcross
13-11-2011, 18:05
@Sabatasso. Thanks for replying. That wasn't aimed at anyone. I was just asking honest questions and looking for a bit of clarification. I'm glad that you didn't feel attacked and appreciate your honesty (as if I can tell over the internet, but you know what I mean). I was hoping you wouldn't take it the wrong way.
@Mozzy. Very valid point. Well said.
Back to football
doncha mean sockurrrrr, u yanks make me howl haha
To me, at least, there is a clear difference between Negro and Nigga.
Also, for me at least, Nigga don't really describe race or color, but a way of dressing and musical taste that is also fairly common among white people. I generally call them "Rappers", or "Yo folks", if I need to describe them in any way.
I
Really :w00t
It is clear to me that if you are not racist ...then you are clearly confused.
Your statement above says it all for me.
But again since I am a Fifa guy .....what the fuck do i know ...right??
"...Nigga don't really describe race or color, but a way of dressing and musical taste.."
Jeesas Christ! :no:
Need i say more .....? It is too clear for me to continue killing this thread with this argument. I already have my proof.
Back on Topic ...
Should I now point out the title of the first 10 or maybe 15 threads in this PES 2012 forum?
Should I then indicate the content of each thread in terms of support for or against PES 2012?
I will again ask MarkCross, how am i trollin' in thread named Pes vs Fifa?
Who am i trollin on? Does he know the meaning of the word?
Are those threads against PES considered trollin?
Maybe someone should explain the meaning.
Fifa is the best game of football on any console todate.
PES 2012 sucks balls. Check the threads ...the proof is all there
fucking noobsters :laugh:
Dundon's
15-11-2011, 10:32
PES is broken and Fifa is flying at an all time high and as long as folks continue to buy PES the longer they will keep turning out rubbish updates.
I might try PES when the PS4 comes out in a few years it's that bad, maybe then they'll do a proper fix on it.
PES is broken and Fifa is flying at an all time high and as long as folks continue to buy PES the longer they will keep turning out rubbish updates.
That's NOT ONLY FOR PES. Fifa is by far a broken game here aswell. Pes failed in the execution part, as the visual parts like the animations, collisions, LICENSES, etc.. are not there, BUT FIFA FAILS AT IT'S CORE (super bad AI, no individuality, no tactics, overrated strength attribute, etc...) but somehow manages to execute the visual parts really well.
Fact is, that both pes and fifa NEED A LESSON, but the only problem with that is that we have no one to turn to.
This whole fifa is on a new level IS PURE BS. I don't hate fifa, I just hate the fact that people are OVERLOOKING THE OBVIOUS IN FIFA and are blinded by the animations, smoothness collisions and other eye candy stuff that it offers.
techboy11
15-11-2011, 10:55
FIFA is a shower of shit. PES was a shower because of the goalies (out of the box), then it became a shower because of the blind fix where shooting went straight (1.01), then it was a shower because the game became dull and monotonous (1.02). BUT, a PC modded PES 2012 is a different kettle of fish altogether. The PES I have on my PC right now beats FIFA in almost every department. It's graphically superior, plays like football, the shooting and passing is sorted and the keepers are very good. Games ebb and flow, you never score the same goal twice, and gamespeed can be altered.
FIFA meh, only now the chickens are coming home to roost for gamers. Lots are flooding back to FIFA 11 in their droves, as the monotony, crap AI, and TOTAL scripting has left them cold for FIFA12.
The problem PES has is that people can't be expected to spend the amount of time that I have put into pimping my PES up. It should be like this out of the box. You shouldn't have to rely on twenty gameplay tweaks to get somewhere with it.
BUT, I challenge anyone to find a better simulation of football than what I have on the PC at the moment.
People are overlooking it because of the freedom it provides. And tactics do work on FIFA, it's just most people don't use it or don't know where to access it. They just work better on pes.
Also the AI, in FIFA, isn't too bad because of this:-
Say if essien tried to cross it and it went past drogba and anelka and it was going out for a goal kick, in pes, the opposition would blast it away so Chelsea have the throw-in instead of there being in goal kick wheras in FIFA, they would have the sense to make it go out for a goal kick instead of giving away a cheap corner. So sometimes FIFA outsmarts PES in programming and AI. Anyway, FIFA's defending AI is excellent, even on legacy defending, not only tactical.
Also FIFA's career mode is excellent and Pes doesn't feel like it has the individuality it once had. Come on, only 4 different dribbling styles - haven't konami found out players can dribble in more than 4 ways? It's 2012, no 2002!
Dundon's
15-11-2011, 11:11
Have either of you played Fifa Pro Clubs online with your mates? If you haven't you're missing out on an experience. Agreed the AI is desperate, but then again has it ever been any good on any title?
Look, I was big fan of PES but since 2008 they have devastated me year after year to the point that I gave up playing football games in general. It's taken me until now to finally throw in the towel to Fifa because most of the lads I know play it online where the games runs perfect even at 11v11.
What really happened is PES made a bad product in 2008 and year after year they continue to try and fix it. Hopefully PES will come back with a vengeance on the PS4 because only then will they make an actual new version of the game.
Have either of you played Fifa Pro Clubs online with your mates? If you haven't you're missing out on an experience. Agreed the AI is desperate, but then again has it ever been any good on any title?
Look, I was big fan of PES but since 2008 they have devastated me year after year to the point that I gave up playing football games in general. It's taken me until now to finally throw in the towel to Fifa because most of the lads I know play it online where the games runs perfect even at 11v11.
What really happened is PES made a bad product in 2008 and year after year they continue to try and fix it. Hopefully PES will come back with a vengeance on the PS4 because only then will they make an actual new version of the game.
You hit the nail on the head there....
Since PES arrival on Nex Gen console it has been struggling. The game has hardly moved from where is was on PS2 aside from its bright and amazing colours.
Animations, Gameplay, AI and almost every aspect of the basic setup of PES is just crap. It just does not appeal to the masses anymore.
I come back every year to look at its development and I am met with same results. Remove stuff that is not a problem to the game, polish and change the menus and voila ....you have the next series.
I like Fifa because they have clearly sacrificed the time to invest in a more creative and updated game. Innovation and creativity seems to be pushing the title also. EA is simply not afraid to push the envelop. This years introduction of both TD and the Impact Engine has been met with a few scrutiny. But for the first time we are seeing gradual changes. If they can improve on both next year .....i won't even be looking in this direction.
Again, the choice is based on preference but as I stated before Fifa outselling PES by 25 to 1 should basically open up the eyes of non believers.
Join the United States of Fifa....:rolleyes:
Best footie game ever! Without apology!
People are overlooking it because of the freedom it provides.
Freedom? That's an illusion. Freedom for the loss of individuality? There's no way i'll accept that. Fifa's freedom is not freedom, it's more like giving the people manual control so that they will feel good about themselves, when in reality, all it takes is some practice as the movement of the stick is so sensitive that you could play it blind folded, since you won't need to see the end result when in manual mode, because it all depends on your touch. Once you learn the movement with your hands, it becomes easy and this whole manual argument falls down because the game does not have any individuality what so ever.
Though I agree that FIFA does give you the freedom of a proper direction to shoot unlike pes which is a huge shame on pes.
And tactics do work on FIFA, it's just most people don't use it or don't know where to access it. They just work better on pes.
They don't work well enough because for example I play with Juve, and I play Pepe on the RWF or RM. Next thing I know is that Pepe is playing at LM or AMF. Seriously, they can't even get a position right let alone a change in the way you play and build up your play tactics.
Also the AI, in FIFA, isn't too bad because of this:-
Say if essien tried to cross it and it went past drogba and anelka and it was going out for a goal kick, in pes, the opposition would blast it away so Chelsea have the throw-in instead of there being in goal kick wheras in FIFA, they would have the sense to make it go out for a goal kick instead of giving away a cheap corner. So sometimes FIFA outsmarts PES in programming and AI. Anyway, FIFA's defending AI is excellent, even on legacy defending, not only tactical.
Defending is BROKEN ON FFIA. There's no timing involved, it's all about bumping not tackling. Yes there are instances where the AI in Pes is just a fail but I could write an endless list on the AI fails in fifa, not to mention again, the spots on the pitch where a tackle never works and the AI takes full advantage of it. That's just a gamebreaker. Both pes and fifa have these gamebreakers unfortunately.
Also FIFA's career mode is excellent and Pes doesn't feel like it has the individuality it once had. Come on, only 4 different dribbling styles - haven't konami found out players can dribble in more than 4 ways? It's 2012, no 2002!
Fifa's career mode is realistic MINUS the retarded transfers yeah.
The dribbling styles?
Pes has 4 and it's outdated yeah, BUT FIFA ONLY HAS 1. What's the point of bringing up this argument when pes has 3 more dribbling styles than fifa.
^^^^^^^^
I'm not even bother going to argue all of that.
First, you haven't even played FIFA, only watched youtube clips. In fifa, passing support works unlike pes.
Second, you can do any skill you desire whilst in PES there is a limted number of skills.
Thirdly, You have to actually play the full game more than once to realize the art of defending on FIFA- It's not like pes where the AI time your tackles because there is no freedom(when i press slide tackle, the cup automatically decides i want to stand tackle when i don't). Also, FIFA don't struggle with Zonal marking unlike pes which do as cb's are out of positions and they let every attacker get past them even with jockey
Fourthly, another example of freedom is the ability to do your own goal celebration when you score inlike PES wherethe computer decides if you do goal celebration '1' or '2'.
Fifthly, FIFA gives a default dribbling style to every player as they work with most which is why c.ronaldo and messi dribble the way they do unlike pes where he, along with players like robben or miccoli, has a stupid unrealistic 'speed merchant card' which makes them do speed at high turns without losing speed every time.
Anyway the fact that you think that a player doesn't stick to the position they are in, then you clearly go onto youtube and type in FIFA 12 fails and find vids of these. Ofcourse there will be time things like that happen because no football game is perfect but if you played it, you'd notice that it happens rarely and even in football you sometimes see pepe helping out on the left midfield
My 2 cents is:
PES 12 demos > FIFA 12 > PES 12 Final game
Shaun7 I've argued the same way you did ever since PES12 got released. But after the second patch I gave up. It's simply not even remotely the game we downloaded as demo's back in August and September.
I gave up after the 2nd patch because the AI for me got dumbed down and I was dominating opponents on the same level I previously had to concentrate on to win. I'm just so fed up with the fucking around of Konami. I invested a lot in PES 12 with tons of hours editing-wise to created my own 2.Bundesliga league etc. because I was convinced I would be playing PES12 till deep into next year.
But I've had enough...
I bought FIFA12 on Sunday. Let me say I watched a ton of gameplay videos on youtube, and laughed and mocked a lot of them. I didn't see the quality everyone else was seeing...but nevertheless decided I'll try it. I figured I'll try both on Sunday and sell whichever one is the worst.
I sold my PES12 yesterday.
FIFA12 has it's faults. And I agree with the points made in this thread. But EA does deserve a lot of credit for innovation in regards to the physics. The ball physics are also a lot better IMO.
If only we could have the smooth gameplay of FIFA and the AI of the PES 12 Demo 2.
I'm very dissapointed with PES12, as after the demo's I couldn't wait for the full release. But so far I'm really enjoying the FIFA career mode...unfortunately just like PES, the AI transfers are out of whack.
Judging by the full releases of both games, FIFA12 nicks it this year IMHO
unfortunately just like PES, the AI transfers are out of whack.The whack transfers can be fixed if you have the PC version of FIFA 12.
markcross
15-11-2011, 14:40
basically pes 2012 is the best footy game ever made, thos who slag it off simply cant hack how hard it is to master, this game was made for serious gamers and requires alot of skill in all departments, but most just quit cos its hard and they get owned alot online
basically pes 2012 is the best footy game ever made, thos who slag it off simply cant hack how hard it is to master, this game was made for serious gamers and requires alot of skill in all departments, but most just quit cos its hard and they get owned alot onlineYour comments are as hollow and meaningless as ockrass's posts about FIFA being sim and PES arcade. Anybody who can't or won't admit that PES 12 has some serious, fundamental gameplay problems isn't being honest or doesn't know football, end of story.
techboy11
15-11-2011, 17:55
Guys, I rented FIFA again today just to see if this new patch had changed anything, and it's just the same old same old.
I'm with Shaun on this...PES has it's faults but I just don't get the love for FIFA this year. For me, it's almost unplayable. I still can't get my head round people's views on defending, defending in this game is quite honestly broken. You can't apply any sort or reasonable football tactical defensive knowledge because there is none, thr CPU will pass the ball until it decided that it wants to get one on one with you. As the defenders in the game have low response in terms of acceleration and speed, there is only ever really one winner. A faster CPU programme, or a slow unresponsive Jamie Carragher. It's so bad that I just don't get you guys. In the end it was better to have anybody as a centre back other than Carragher because he's so appallingly shit that any forward with an ounce of acceleration will just skip past him.
Am I even playing the same FIFA version as the rest of you? This is what I find in FIFA -
1) Illusory CPU build up play to get possession stats close
2) Then the CPU will 'find' that pass to get three on three, two on two, one on one. The favourite CPU trick is to work the ball into the corner whereby the attacker has the angle into the corner of the box against your unresponsive slow defender
3) Hardly any fouls
4) Hardly any air balls
5) No yellow cards in FIVE games of playing CM
6) Maxi Rodriguez is better as a CB than Carragher
7) It doesn't matter if I put 1, 2, 3 or 4 DMF's in front of my back four, the CPU will always manufacture one on one situations.
8) Just general blandness. And great inconsistencies. One game the keeper made 3 or 4 world class saves from around 5 or 6 yards out, I shit you not.
9) Can't be arsed to go on....
I FALL INTO THIS TRAP EVERY TIME, BUT I NEED IT....I NEED TO KNOW THAT FIFA IS A PILE OF SHIT, so what I do I play tons of PES until I think I get bored of it, I then convince myself that FIFA is the better game, I then rent FIFA. I then conclude that I am the biggest twat in the world, hit myself over the head several times with a wet fish (preferably a mackerel), and then shove PES back on, wishing that I hadn't dispensed with five pounds.
For me PES may be bad in some areas, but Jesus, are these magazine reviewers even football fans, I mean FFS.
It's each to their own guys so we all have to respect each others opinion, but FIFA for me is just a waste of my precious time, the contain function for example is the biggest waste of time since the bread slicer that didn't slice!
markcross
15-11-2011, 18:06
Your comments are as hollow and meaningless as ockrass's posts about FIFA being sim and PES arcade. Anybody who can't or won't admit that PES 12 has some serious, fundamental gameplay problems isn't being honest or doesn't know football, end of story.
i hav owned baangus on several occasions online, his skill level is minimal and has tactics are abismal at best, therfore proving that players who slate pes 2012 are those who cant play it and get owned an awful lot online. No further questions ur honour. I rest my case. CASE CLOSED.
I still can't get my head round people's views on defending, defending in this game is quite honestly broken.
1) Illusory CPU build up play to get possession stats close
2) Then the CPU will 'find' that pass to get three on three, two on two, one on one. The favourite CPU trick is to work the ball into the corner whereby the attacker has the angle into the corner of the box against your unresponsive slow defender
3) Hardly any fouls
4) Hardly any air balls
5) No yellow cards in FIVE games of playing CMYou hit on the several serious problems with the game. Fortunately for me, a few of those can be fixed to a degree with the PC version, or by simply editing player ratings and assigning CPU custom tactics. My CPU teams now get 1-3 cards per game along with several fouls, for example.
The faux CPU tactical game can also be tweaked. By lowering Dribble ratings, CPU players stop driving into the corners all the time. Again, using edits and tactics, it's possible to create a wide variety of different CPU playing styles.
The defending is for all intents and purpose broken, yes. That's because CPU Agility ratings are too high, allowing CPU players -- all of them -- to psychically move aside and avoid slide tackles, making slide tackles entirely pointless. But again, that can be completely fixed by lowering Agility ratings to a more realistic level.
The rest of it can't be saved though with simple tweaks. The gameplay and game coding is still the same moronic, canned, EA-style game programming that's present in all their games. They use cheesy unrealistic player stat boosts to emulate CPU pressure which creates ridiculous over-the-top gameplay. If you have the PC version, you can download and install Fidel's GP Evo patch which thankfully eliminates almost all of that.
i hav owned baangus on several occasions online, his skill level is minimal and has tactics are abismal at best, therfore proving that players who slate pes 2012 are those who cant play it and get owned an awful lot online. No further questions ur honour. I rest my case. CASE CLOSED.Bro, in 20 years of gaming I have never played online. No idea who you played, but it wasn't me lol. BTW, pretty weak comeback after rightfully being called out for being a flaming PES fanboy.
his skill level is minimalThat part is definitely true, ha-ha!
And probably why I find FIFA so enjoyable lol.
^^^^^^^^
I'm not even bother going to argue all of that.
That's because deep down inside, you know I am right and you know that you cannot counter the argument.
First, you haven't even played FIFA, only watched youtube clips. In fifa, passing support works unlike pes.
BS.
You know something? If I didn't play it, How do I know of these spots where a tackle NEVER works? I explained how it works in detail.
It seems to me that YOU are the one that has a great fifa picture in mind, but won't admit the really stupid things that in reality has.
If I didn't play it, how do I know how the AI plays and the BS it does? I listed all of those. Seriously grow up first.
Second, you can do any skill you desire whilst in PES there is a limted number of skills.
Again, this is noob stuff that impresses kids. Very few players DO ACTUAL FIFA TRICKS IN A GAME OF REAL FOOTBALL.
Thirdly, You have to actually play the full game more than once to realize the art of defending on FIFA- It's not like pes where the AI time your tackles because there is no freedom(when i press slide tackle, the cup automatically decides i want to stand tackle when i don't). Also, FIFA don't struggle with Zonal marking unlike pes which do as cb's are out of positions and they let every attacker get past them even with jockey
Art of defending? more like the stupidity of defending.
BTW, quit this argument that in pes the tackles are automated because the are NOT.
Let me tell you the art of fifa 12's defending.
First of all the spots in the pitch where a tackle never works.
No timing needed, as EVERY defender tackles the same way and again there are these spots in the field where no matter how well you time the tackle, it just never works.
Strength matters the most when defending because it's all about BUMPING into the player, not tackling hence why timing is not all that important
AI PRESSURE never works well
Broken sliding tackles where the AI will just weave through it
And the last thing. NO POSITIONING. Again, it is about bumping and applying pressure with your midfielder while laying back with your defenders, and keep repeating. That's the only way to defend. You know why?
Because if you do not pressure with the midfielder, and end up having your defenders only to defend with, the AI will go from the side, and bam, the spots where a tackle never works will come into play.
Where is the timing in that? It's a repeated cycle that never ends and it's always the same with every team and player.
Fourthly, another example of freedom is the ability to do your own goal celebration when you score inlike PES wherethe computer decides if you do goal celebration '1' or '2'.
Fifthly, FIFA gives a default dribbling style to every player as they work with most which is why c.ronaldo and messi dribble the way they do unlike pes where he, along with players like robben or miccoli, has a stupid unrealistic 'speed merchant card' which makes them do speed at high turns without losing speed every time.
Manual celebrations are a nice touch, but MANY PLAYERS HAVE THEIR OWN celebration so it's isn't really something big. It doesn't impress me, because I look deeper than that since that contributes absolutely none to the gameplay.
Ha, default dribbling style to every player? Only a few players have a default dribbling style like C.Ronaldo. Such a shame that dribbling is stupid in fifa. Oh and that default dribbling is still not that defined as I can never tell that C.Ronaldo is running, just from his animation because it does not look all that different from the others.
I agree, speed merchant is idiotic.
Anyway the fact that you think that a player doesn't stick to the position they are in, then you clearly go onto youtube and type in FIFA 12 fails and find vids of these. Ofcourse there will be time things like that happen because no football game is perfect but if you played it, you'd notice that it happens rarely and even in football you sometimes see pepe helping out on the left midfield
Youtube type? That's for kids not grown ups, man. I am not a kid who gets angry that my beloved game is getting bashed and hammered. Oh position switch (or should I say GLITCH) happens in fifa 12, and it does happen a bit more than you say. I never complained about this in fifa 11. This is a fifa 12 issue (there goes your argument that I haven't played it. I think you are just playing fifa from your head and imagining all the positives).
BTW, I watch every Juve game in reality, and when Pepe goes on the left, IT MEANS THAT Krasic is on the right and it means that there was a position switch of the wings. In fifa, you won't see Krasic at RMF, when Pepe goes to LM, you will see Krasic in the MIDDLE. Huge fail in my book. Not to mention, that it does this AUTOMATICALLY.
Ronaldo: I am not saying ACCEPT THAT PES IS BETTER. NO I am saying that both are STUPIDLY FLAWED, and my argument is simply against all this Fifa is on another level grade A BS. Play what you like, because both are flawed, however for me, as techboy stated (I agree 100% with his remark) I think that pes for all it's stupid flaws still plays better.
I am not saying ACCEPT THAT PES IS BETTER. NO I am saying that both are STUPIDLY FLAWED, and my argument is simply against all this Fifa is on another level grade A BS.Perfectly stated and exactly true. I still say FIFA 12 is the better game this year though, solely because it appears EA actually tested it before releasing it. It isn't fundamentally broken like PES 2012 is.
obsidian7
15-11-2011, 19:07
pes rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pes rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm starting to think not really anymore. I keep on getting disappointed year after year after PES 6.
muscularmatt
15-11-2011, 19:30
One can't help but think that some people idealise the past a little too much, and therefore will never be happy with the new product.
Do i enjoy the passing? do i enjoy the the shooting? do i enjoy the stupid keeper mistakes? do i enjoy the simple foul system? do i enjoy the through ball? Not really!!. The only reason i still back PES is because i'm a die hard fan.
markcross
15-11-2011, 20:06
do u ever stop moanin like a biatch????? NO
markcross
15-11-2011, 20:30
What's a biatch
abu my friend find the mirror find the biatch
MozzyEng
15-11-2011, 20:35
Do i enjoy the passing? do i enjoy the the shooting? do i enjoy the stupid keeper mistakes? do i enjoy the simple foul system? do i enjoy the through ball? Not really!!. The only reason i still back PES is because i'm a die hard fan.
Don't tell me you play it for the buzz of tackling!
do u ever stop moanin like a biatch????? NODo you ever have anything worthwhile to say? Heck, even something intelligible would be an improvement.
What's a biatchIt's internet thug talk for I'm a raging fanboy I know, but no way I plan on admitting it so I'll just reply with "biatch."
riverplatelv
15-11-2011, 20:43
FIFA is always better when u dont have it installed, once u do u will realize that PES is the better game... its just a mind game. U playing PES, thinking how bad this game is and wish FIFA was installed. Once it is, u soon notice all goals are the same, very repetitive gameplay
FIFA is always better when u dont have it installed, once u do u will realize that PES is the better game...Ha-ha! True for some games for sure. But I installed FIFA and I have to say I'm enjoying it because it's not a broken, frustrating mess like PES 2012.
MozzyEng
15-11-2011, 20:51
I find that fifa although seems good at first, Soon becomes boring and repetitive. Online clubs is good though when with a group of mates, But single player and gameplay is lacking
I find that fifa although seems good at first, Soon becomes boring and repetitive. But single player and gameplay is lackingAbsolutely. But creating and assigning custom tactics fixes a lot of that.
^^^^^^^^
I'm not even bother going to argue all of that.
First, you haven't even played FIFA, only watched youtube clips. In fifa, passing support works unlike pes.
Second, you can do any skill you desire whilst in PES there is a limted number of skills.
Thirdly, You have to actually play the full game more than once to realize the art of defending on FIFA- It's not like pes where the AI time your tackles because there is no freedom(when i press slide tackle, the cup automatically decides i want to stand tackle when i don't). Also, FIFA don't struggle with Zonal marking unlike pes which do as cb's are out of positions and they let every attacker get past them even with jockey
Fourthly, another example of freedom is the ability to do your own goal celebration when you score inlike PES wherethe computer decides if you do goal celebration '1' or '2'.
Fifthly, FIFA gives a default dribbling style to every player as they work with most which is why c.ronaldo and messi dribble the way they do unlike pes where he, along with players like robben or miccoli, has a stupid unrealistic 'speed merchant card' which makes them do speed at high turns without losing speed every time.
Anyway the fact that you think that a player doesn't stick to the position they are in, then you clearly go onto youtube and type in FIFA 12 fails and find vids of these. Ofcourse there will be time things like that happen because no football game is perfect but if you played it, you'd notice that it happens rarely and even in football you sometimes see pepe helping out on the left midfield
Sup Abu 97,
I don't know why you even bother trying to explain to Shaun7 anything about Fifa.
It should be clear to you by now that he does not play the game. He only finds these idiotic, senseless, false things to say about the game ...and then of course say it for kids. My thinking is ..if kids can play it, then why can't he?
Point them to videos, Shaun7 and Techboy that is ....Defending for Shaun7 who states you can't tackle in some areas of the field. Maybe he should learn that the new TD is about timing and covering. Learn how to do these here...it is pretty simple. This kills the whole shit he wrote about defending. Other people are doing it just fine ...so it must be him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=talBIzfcvIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sx026HxOgc&feature=related\
and Proof that there is build up play and tackling anywhere on the field...not an "illusion" as Tech has stated over and over again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtjof7dQx4
Again, I am sure they will come back with excuses. I posted vids already and they said it was human vs human ...I posted against the cpu and nothing .....just came back a few post over with the same ridiculous crap ...
While Shaun7 clearly doesn't play Fifa or hasn't spent enough time to even learn how to defend......Tech is renting his copy...
Don't waste you time bro...you, me and millions of others know that PES cannot walk into any stadium where Fifa dwells today.
Not saying PES isn't an effort ...its just not good enough .....beaten in sales 25 to 1. Who really argues against those numbers? noobs only noobsters.
Welcome to the United States of Fifa Abu!
EA...its in the game!
;)
Unlike KONAMI - engineered for freedom my arse
Sup Abu 97,
I don't know why you even bother trying to explain to Shaun7 anything about Fifa.
What a messy comeback. Really??? :laugh:
Ofcourse, DO NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN TO ME and the reason is very simple.
It's because I can see past Fifa's good side. I can see past all the nice touches and animations. I can see the bad side UNLIKE SOME OF YOU.
There's no argument to what I had written in the other post simply because I take reviewing seriously and I ACTUALLY INVEST TIME to review both the good and the bad side of the games and I AM NOT BLINDED by some nice touches. I look deep into a game. :cool:
It should be clear to you by now that he does not play the game. He only finds these idiotic, senseless, false things to say about the game ...and then of course say it for kids. My thinking is ..if kids can play it, then why can't he?
Just so you know, I find Fifa 12 ACTUALLY EASIER than Fifa 11, simply because the glitches I mentioned may work in your favor aswell and the AI overall, is a step back from Fifa 11.
Also, you should know that I play it on World class and I find it really easy. The thing that hinders me sometimes is the obvious scripting and BS that the AI does on you.
So there goes your argument AGIAN. :)
Yes, by now, I quit playing fifa simply because it's unbearable and there are other AWESOME games out there. No not pes 12 if you may ask. That game still has problems that I hate.
Point them to videos, Shaun7 and Techboy that is ....Defending for Shaun7 who states you can't tackle in some areas of the field. Maybe he should learn that the new TD is about timing and covering. Learn how to do these here...it is pretty simple. This kills the whole shit he wrote about defending. Other people are doing it just fine ...so it must be him.
Another BASELESS statement. ;) It is about timing until the AI goes superhuman in terms of reactions on you and then the BS starts to happen.
Thing is, that although I like the fact that EA tried to make a different defending system than last year's STUPIDLY UNREALISTIC defending system, they just failed to execute it properly.
No matter how you defend, the AI will always 1vs1 you with your defender. The Ai will always play from the side, and either:
-cross the ball and score a header because the AI will win 99.95 of air balls
-or cut in from the side with your defender and doing a perfect finesse shot 90 derees from the goal net. NOW, THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE OF THESE SPOTS IN THE PITCH WHERE A TACKLE NEVER WORKS.
But I guess it's useless explaining this to someone who just doesn't want to accept and face reality. ;)
basically pes 2012 is the best footy game ever made, thos who slag it off simply cant hack how hard it is to master, this game was made for serious gamers and requires alot of skill in all departments, but most just quit cos its hard and they get owned alot online
this made me laugh!....
hahahahaha!
markcross
16-11-2011, 10:24
this made me laugh!....
hahahahaha!
the truth often makes us chuckle
muscularmatt
16-11-2011, 13:01
I've still not played it because my PS3 has cancer, but I thought 2011 was excellent and a lot of people slagged that off too. As I've said, I can't help but feel alot of people will never be happy, no matter how much improvement is made.
the truth often makes us chuckle
I wish PES12 WAS as good as YOU think it is!
AND it was as hard to "master" as you say it is, and as rewarding to play!
I really do!
Its a very soulless, broken game...and not very hard, even on super now!
PES12...
its another broken, over scripted coat of emulsion over a damp wall!
Time to build a new wall and get some proper plaster up before we start choosing on colour schemes and borders KONMAI!
Though the colour schemes and boarders are nice!
Its still built on top of a broken foundation that's never been solid since 2008!
I have FIFA12 as well...
though only got it "free" with PS3 number 2!
played it demo...disliked it due to the defensive controls...
played full game...changed to legacy defensive controls!
On surface, game looks nice...plays fine...reworked ball physics etc...
all very nice...
A lot LESS wrong with FIFA12 compared to PES12!
And to be fair...enjoyed it when i played it! Surprsiingly...
....but never set me on fire...and not even played it to same degree as PES12! Even though its the far more complete game with less errors!
KONAMI still has a chance here to ACTUALLY make the best played game of footy! I say played...as they are never going to beat EA on the other modes, teams, licences, commentary...but thats doesn't bother me that much as i have always loved ML and editing the teams and creating stadiums...though at the same time, i feel KONAMI SHOULD have more teams/leagues in the game and have a bit more finish to it!
Sad it takes a community to make a game into a more finished state than the company that made it!
But On the last 6 years...they have fallen WELL short of what's acceptable to put a £35+ price tag on broken version after broken version!
techboy11
16-11-2011, 14:30
What a messy comeback. Really??? :laugh:
Ofcourse, DO NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN TO ME and the reason is very simple.
It's because I can see past Fifa's good side. I can see past all the nice touches and animations. I can see the bad side UNLIKE SOME OF YOU.
There's no argument to what I had written in the other post simply because I take reviewing seriously and I ACTUALLY INVEST TIME to review both the good and the bad side of the games and I AM NOT BLINDED by some nice touches. I look deep into a game. :cool:
Just so you know, I find Fifa 12 ACTUALLY EASIER than Fifa 11, simply because the glitches I mentioned may work in your favor aswell and the AI overall, is a step back from Fifa 11.
Also, you should know that I play it on World class and I find it really easy. The thing that hinders me sometimes is the obvious scripting and BS that the AI does on you.
So there goes your argument AGIAN. :)
Yes, by now, I quit playing fifa simply because it's unbearable and there are other AWESOME games out there. No not pes 12 if you may ask. That game still has problems that I hate.
Another BASELESS statement. ;) It is about timing until the AI goes superhuman in terms of reactions on you and then the BS starts to happen.
Thing is, that although I like the fact that EA tried to make a different defending system than last year's STUPIDLY UNREALISTIC defending system, they just failed to execute it properly.
No matter how you defend, the AI will always 1vs1 you with your defender. The Ai will always play from the side, and either:
-cross the ball and score a header because the AI will win 99.95 of air balls
-or cut in from the side with your defender and doing a perfect finesse shot 90 derees from the goal net. NOW, THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE OF THESE SPOTS IN THE PITCH WHERE A TACKLE NEVER WORKS.
But I guess it's useless explaining this to someone who just doesn't want to accept and face reality. ;)
Shaun, I wouldn't even waste your finger energy replying anymore mate lol. You see, I see it, they don't. More pity them.
You can't slag FIFA and not PES - FIFA contains a more fundamental game than PES wheras PES is more advanced with it's brand new AI, but the question is which is one is more sim and less arcadey and which is more free to gamers? Obviously it's FIFA as it is more slow and has better graphics and not stupid things that piss us off unlike PES which is the way to go if you like buggy crappy games that have 2d cardboard faces and one of the most outdated collision stuff nonsense ever. Even the motio capture is stupid as it is 2012, not 2002. I don't think in Japan they don't know which year it is yet which is why pes 4 had better animations and collisions than the crap they release every year. When KONAMI sell the game and find out everyone has found out it's a bunch of bullcrap, they just give out patches which make the game better in some aspects and worse in other aspects.
Atleast FIFA try the final edition of the game before they release it.
hawkeye76
16-11-2011, 16:48
Don't waste you time bro...you, me and millions of others know that PES cannot walk into any stadium where Fifa dwells today.
You should have put 'think' not 'know'.
Both games have many issues. For whatever reason, people and reviewers are blind to the many issues of FIFA. How anyone has been able to rate any of the FIFA games above 7 is baffling. I know reviews are generally done over a short space of time, which could account for some lack of insight. But it only really takes a few days to see past the gloss. Some just don't have the ability or knowledge to see the problems. Which is good for them, as they get a game they can enjoy. Ignorance is bliss after all.
Is PES any better? Its a completely different game, in that the initial impressions don't show its depth and character. Previously PES games slowly improved the more you play them (PS2), now they improve up to the point they frustrate you so much that you can't play them anymore (will PES2012??). FIFA, strangely starts off promising, but gradually gets worse the more you play.
The difference between the 2, for me, is that along the journey, Ive had some enjoyment from every version of PES. On the other hand, I haven't enjoyed playing one game of FIFA since the very first 2 on the mega drive. And enjoyment is what playing games is about.
PES2012 could have a great amount of longevity if it addressed the issues of the passing inconsistencies, automated movement of human controlled players and scripting. The other niggles I could probably live with for a year if these were sorted out.
techboy11
16-11-2011, 17:29
You can't slag FIFA and not PES - FIFA contains a more fundamental game than PES wheras PES is more advanced with it's brand new AI, but the question is which is one is more sim and less arcadey and which is more free to gamers? Obviously it's FIFA as it is more slow and has better graphics and not stupid things that piss us off unlike PES which is the way to go if you like buggy crappy games that have 2d cardboard faces and one of the most outdated collision stuff nonsense ever. Even the motio capture is stupid as it is 2012, not 2002. I don't think in Japan they don't know which year it is yet which is why pes 4 had better animations and collisions than the crap they release every year. When KONAMI sell the game and find out everyone has found out it's a bunch of bullcrap, they just give out patches which make the game better in some aspects and worse in other aspects.
Atleast FIFA try the final edition of the game before they release it.
Abu, I have said time and time again, that PES has/had huge flaws. Out of the box it was very good, but the keepers were like Stephen Hawkings......on a bad day. Then KONAMI tried to disguise the fact that keepers were bad, by making all shots go centrally; nice one KONAMI...you would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids! Then patch 1.02, or 'PARK THE BUS' patch. So, yeah, if you look at objectively, the stuff that KONAMI released was pretty shit. FIFA was an all round 6/10 or something, I don't know, I don't care, say 6/10.
BUT, the point is PES have superior patch makers, now I don't know about FIFA so I can't comment, but the games I have at my disposal now, particularly on the PC (although Chimps is making a good fist of it with the PS3 too) absolutely blows FIFA out of the water.
Graphically superior, responsive, gameplay and AI stunning, stadiums and grass textures, scoreboards, presentation, ball physics; basically all the 'razzmatazz' stuff that PES was missing and that FIFA had, you can patch. But the same can't be said about FIFA, you see you can patch things into a game and change things here and there, but FIFA's AI and gameplay will ALWAYS BE SHIT because the underlying engine is just rubbish. If I can be bothered I'll upload a video I did earlier a random game it was between me and Newcastle, then tell me which is the sim and which is an arcade glitch/cheat fest.
What a messy comeback. Really??? :laugh:
Ofcourse, DO NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN TO ME and the reason is very simple.
It's because I can see past Fifa's good side. I can see past all the nice touches and animations. I can see the bad side UNLIKE SOME OF YOU.
There's no argument to what I had written in the other post simply because I take reviewing seriously and I ACTUALLY INVEST TIME to review both the good and the bad side of the games and I AM NOT BLINDED by some nice touches. I look deep into a game. :cool:
Just so you know, I find Fifa 12 ACTUALLY EASIER than Fifa 11, simply because the glitches I mentioned may work in your favor aswell and the AI overall, is a step back from Fifa 11.
Also, you should know that I play it on World class and I find it really easy. The thing that hinders me sometimes is the obvious scripting and BS that the AI does on you.
So there goes your argument AGIAN. :)
Yes, by now, I quit playing fifa simply because it's unbearable and there are other AWESOME games out there. No not pes 12 if you may ask. That game still has problems that I hate.
Another BASELESS statement. ;) It is about timing until the AI goes superhuman in terms of reactions on you and then the BS starts to happen.
Thing is, that although I like the fact that EA tried to make a different defending system than last year's STUPIDLY UNREALISTIC defending system, they just failed to execute it properly.
No matter how you defend, the AI will always 1vs1 you with your defender. The Ai will always play from the side, and either:
-cross the ball and score a header because the AI will win 99.95 of air balls
-or cut in from the side with your defender and doing a perfect finesse shot 90 derees from the goal net. NOW, THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE OF THESE SPOTS IN THE PITCH WHERE A TACKLE NEVER WORKS.
But I guess it's useless explaining this to someone who just doesn't want to accept and face reality. ;)
The only way of fixing that is by implementing a range of movement within the space, then the 1vs1 confrontation (although determined, to some extent, by statistics) would be ultimately determined by the ability of the gamer.
Without a range of movement within the space, the computer simply overrules the statistics every now and then, in order to make the game more challenging: but of course, the problem is, that it takes away from the consistency and the substance of the game.
Abu, I have said time and time again, that PES has/had huge flaws. Out of the box it was very good, but the keepers were like Stephen Hawkings......on a bad day. Then KONAMI tried to disguise the fact that keepers were bad, by making all shots go centrally; nice one KONAMI...you would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids! Then patch 1.02, or 'PARK THE BUS' patch. So, yeah, if you look at objectively, the stuff that KONAMI released was pretty shit. FIFA was an all round 6/10 or something, I don't know, I don't care, say 6/10.
BUT, the point is PES have superior patch makers, now I don't know about FIFA so I can't comment, but the games I have at my disposal now, particularly on the PC (although Chimps is making a good fist of it with the PS3 too) absolutely blows FIFA out of the water.
Graphically superior, responsive, gameplay and AI stunning, stadiums and grass textures, scoreboards, presentation, ball physics; basically all the 'razzmatazz' stuff that PES was missing and that FIFA had, you can patch. But the same can't be said about FIFA, you see you can patch things into a game and change things here and there, but FIFA's AI and gameplay will ALWAYS BE SHIT because the underlying engine is just rubbish. If I can be bothered I'll upload a video I did earlier a random game it was between me and Newcastle, then tell me which is the sim and which is an arcade glitch/cheat fest.
I know pes 2012 is great once modded on the pc and so is FIFA. FIFA is bril once edited and patched and it also has a great AI and player individuality is better. This is obv because of editing but out of the box FIFA is better. Demo 2 for me probably beat FIFA by a small margin
Ofcourse, DO NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN TO ME and the reason is very simple.
It's because I can see past Fifa's good side. I can see past all the nice touches and animations.
Contradictory! I thought you said Fifa was crap.
Just so you know, I find Fifa 12 ACTUALLY EASIER than Fifa 11,
So there goes your argument AGIAN. :)
What? Where? You haven't said anything ..nada ...so where goes what argument?
So because you think Fifa 12 is easier than Fifa 11....there goes my argument? Really :w00t
Another BASELESS statement. ;) It is about timing until the AI goes superhuman in terms of reactions on you and then the BS starts to happen.
You didn't even look at one of the videos, did you? :blush:
I knew you wouldn't.
As I have stated before, YOU DO NOT PLAY FIFA and its clearly obvious. All these ridiculous statements with no proof.
CASE CLOSED/
The difference between the 2, for me, is that along the journey, Ive had some enjoyment from every version of PES. On the other hand, I haven't enjoyed playing one game of FIFA since the very first 2 on the mega drive. And enjoyment is what playing games is about.
So, basically you don't really play Fifa! So why comment on something you know nothing of?
FIFA was an all round 6/10 or something, I don't know, I don't care, say 6/10.
BUT, the point is PES have superior patch makers, now I don't know about FIFA so I can't comment, but the games I have at my disposal now, particularly on the PC (although Chimps is making a good fist of it with the PS3 too) absolutely blows FIFA out of the water.
So in summarizing your statements above, is if safe to say you do not know much about Fifa? I am seeing a trend here.
Graphically superior, responsive, gameplay and AI stunning, stadiums and grass textures, scoreboards, presentation, ball physics; basically all the 'razzmatazz' stuff that PES was missing and that FIFA had, ....
You are contradicting yourself again bro..:blush:
I not sure if you are saying Fifa is good or bad...you guys flip flop so freaking much. ...
I hope Abu97 is getting my point. None of the above persons really play Fifa. Maybe they have tried it ...but not liked it.
It is clear they have hammered buttons playing PES which they prefer ...and there is nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong however, is bashing a game that they do not play ...just because of their hatred for EA.
:no: Sad but true
kill dem
techboy11
17-11-2011, 07:54
What? Where? You haven't said anything ..nada ...so where goes what argument?
So because you think Fifa 12 is easier than Fifa 11....there goes my argument? Really :w00t
You didn't even look at one of the videos, did you? :blush:
I knew you wouldn't.
As I have stated before, YOU DO NOT PLAY FIFA and its clearly obvious. All these ridiculous statements with no proof.
CASE CLOSED/
So, basically you don't really play Fifa! So why comment on something you know nothing of?
So in summarizing your statements above, is if safe to say you do not know much about Fifa? I am seeing a trend here.
You are contradicting yourself again bro..:blush:
I not sure if you are saying Fifa is good or bad...you guys flip flop so freaking much. ...
I hope Abu97 is getting my point. None of the above persons really play Fifa. Maybe they have tried it ...but not liked it.
It is clear they have hammered buttons playing PES which they prefer ...and there is nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong however, is bashing a game that they do not play ...just because of their hatred for EA.
:no: Sad but true
kill dem
Sigh - OCKRASS - I feel we're like a dog chasing his tail here, so I'll break it down REAL simple.
1) I bought and played PES
2) I bought and played FIFA
During the PES/patches debacle I put PES on the sidelines and SO EXCLUSIVELY played FIFA.
I had a season with it and can tell you it was one of the most joyless dull affairs I have ever been through.
I was CM, World Class mode, 10 minute halves, as Liverpool. I finished top of my league. I had to change some slider settings numerous times because there was always something not quite right about it. In all slider changes I mirrored my changes with the CPU, so as to not cheat (although I firmly believe that CPU responsiveness and acceleration is cheating anyway).
During this season these are the things I noticed that put me off FIFA big time -
1) The lack of fluidity and free play. In becoming more 'sim-like', the games panned out EXACTLY the same OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I scored the same goals, OVER AND OVER AGAIN and the CPU scored the same GOALS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My goals would come from any combination of trigger runs and one two's, and the CPU would constantly try and get me on the wide, then attack the corner of the 18 yard box, one on one. To me, this is dull as dog shit.
2) Glitchy spots - as Shaun said, there are just areas on the pitch when tackling becomes impossible.
3) Free kicks and yellow cards - I must have had about 1 free kick all career and 1 yellow card lol, okay that may be a bit of a lie but it wasn't far off that
4) Lack of an aerial game, the trajectory at which balls get pinged to the strikers is too flat thus ensuring that you cannot play a long ball game
5) Players feel exactly the same - FIFA relies on speed/acceleration/agility, these are the only stats that matter, someone like Jamie Carragher who has years of defensive knowledge is just useless on this game, I ended up putting Maxi Rodriguez as CB most of the time because it just worked better, this is just wrong and unrealistic
6) The impact engine?!? (shakes my head) there were constantly times where free kicks should have been given for body checks etc and just weren't.
7) Just general cheats - there were games when the CPU would just say you're not going to score. I had one game which sticks out in teh memory where I had 4, YES FOUR, shots saved within the six yard box, which were just scripted saves. Ridiculous.
8) No difference whether you play Barce or Burton Albion - I use Burton as an example, because I played a League/FA Cup against them. They were quite simply stunning, talk about Barce, eat your heart out. 1 MOVE consisted of around 60 passes, I shit you not. These are FIFA times, as I like to call it, when the CPU pass 'illusory script' kicks in and the CPU just hold possession for an eternity to fk you over, getting themselves THAT ball which gets them one on one in the corner of said 18 yard box.
9) Ball bounce feels scripted, doesn't feel organic
I could go on...
I then sold FIFA and was going to sell PES, but on sell day it simply wasn't worth selling PES so I had to keep hold of it. Thank goodness I did because a week or so later the patches started to come out for the gaming community, Chimps for the PS3 and a whole host of others for the PC.
So OCKRASS - can we take these as assumptions before you write anything else in the future
Point 1) I played FIFA to death
Point 2) I played PES to death
Simples. Now armed with this knowledge feel free to post what you like, but remember that I have extensive experience of both games at a high level on both (offline), online I just can't stomach (on both).
1) The lack of fluidity and free play. In becoming more 'sim-like', the games panned out EXACTLY the same OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I scored the same goals, OVER AND OVER AGAIN and the CPU scored the same GOALS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My goals would come from any combination of trigger runs and one two's, and the CPU would constantly try and get me on the wide, then attack the corner of the 18 yard box, one on one. To me, this is dull as dog shit.
Hmmm...
Maybe like the ones you have posted on your channel of PES?
All of these 74 vids are the same bubble up long shot goals you scored on PES. Where is the variation? Are these the same GOALS OVER AND OVER AGAIN?
You are so full of shit dude...:blush:
Again...here is the proof
http://www.youtube.com/user/techboy11#p/u/20/Fasxaiw2Cjg
techboy11
17-11-2011, 08:59
LOL, OCKRASS, you're a gem. The ones I post on Youtube ARE the special goals I score lol.
Bear in mind I play around ten games of PES a day, so multiply that by lots of days, and you'll get a figure in the 100's. Do you want me to post every goal I score here on PES, lol that's just ridiculous.
I post clips for all sorts of reasons, some may be critical of PES, like a goal keeping gaff or a defensive line cheat, which triggers your players out of position. The fact is I've spent more time analysing the bad in PES than the good; until now. If you trace my posts across all forums I have been highly critical of PES in certain areas, using certain settings, in certain modes. For example, the early PES releases you just couldn't tackle and even Danny Murphy was like Messi. I wrote at length about this. I wrote at length about the KONAMI pulling the wool over my eyes with patch 1.01, fobbing us off because the keepers were broken. I wrote at length about Top Player being essentially a cheat mode, whereas Superstar was more balanced. I've wrote at length, good and bad about everything.
If you want me to start posting all my goals OCKRASS I can do dude, then you'll see own goals, tap ins, long shots, headers, deflections, red cards, yellow crads, penalties, free kicks etc etc lol. You'll see some teams using a passing game and others using long ball. You'll see Bale being more responsive and harder to stop like Ribery and Robben, you'll see the slightly clunky Andy Carroll being able to fend off defenders with his strength and win the majority in the air.....all this is individuality. PES gets harder tactically as you progress through the levels, FIFA just plain old cheats as you go from professional, to world class, to legendary. It's cheap tricks in my book.
Generally the long shots are the most stunning to watch, therefore, I post these....comprende?!?
Anyway OCKRASS, I'm not going to spend any more time with you, you play FIFA I'll play my variety PES! I have bashed PES with the best of them, but I will not bash something that almost the complete package now (with patches etc). PES AI engine is beautiful it just failed in it's execution and KONAMI didn't really now which direction to take the series, that's their bad. EA and FIFA is a different kettle of fish, there is something more sinister about trying to be much more subtle in the scripting and the way the CPU just 'get their positions and goals', it's very crafty stuff from EA to disguise the fact that their engine is poor and the AI is poor. How can Burton Albion play like Barcelona...it just makes no sense. Because CPU stats in FIFA mean jack shit, it's just the level of cheat difficulty increases hugely as you go up the levels.
FIFA may flatter to deceive many, but it doesn't deceive me. How can you play twenty minutes and not have one free kick? I can't remember ever having a penalty for example in that CM season I talked about. Or a sending off?
Sigh, let's just agree to disagree OCKRASS.
What? Where? You haven't said anything ..nada ...so where goes what argument?
So because you think Fifa 12 is easier than Fifa 11....there goes my argument? Really :w00t
I think sometimes you cannot even understand BASIC ENGLISH. So I'll say it again.
You were saying that either I did not play fifa or I do not know how to play it simply because of the gamebreaking issues I listed with Fifa 12.
I never said the whole fifa game was crap. Those are YOUR WORDS not mine. I said that it has gamebreaking issues, the ones I listed and I also said that is is overrated and overhyped simply because it has these nice finishing touches like the good animations and smoothness as well as the fluidity of the whole game, but deep inside, the game is not what everyone thinks it is.
I also listed these issues with the game and how EA fooled people like you into thinking that fifa 12 is actually hard, when in reality, it's just a cheap way out to make it LOOK hard, but ultimately, the game is still not hard at all.
When I said there goes your argument again, I meant that you are TOTALLY WRONG when saying that I did not play fifa or do not know how to play it and I have proof to back up with my posts.
You didn't even look at one of the videos, did you? :blush:
I knew you wouldn't.
As I have stated before, YOU DO NOT PLAY FIFA and its clearly obvious. All these ridiculous statements with no proof.
CASE CLOSED/
I have looked at them for your information BUT THAT WAS NOT MY POINT. YOU'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO AVOID THE ISSUES I LISTED. That is the way I defend in fifa simply because the game was designed to defend like that. I understand the fundamentals of many games and I can break down many, many games into simple step by step.
Fifa was easy to break because it does not have DEPTH.
Oh, also, those videos did not prove me wrong about the tackles being sh*t and the spots in the pitch where a tackle never works no matter how well you "time" it.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PES VS FIFA. FORGET THAT. I AM ONTO SOMETHING ELSE, SOMETHING YOU DO NOT LIKE AND THAT'S STATING THE UTTER BAD SIDE OF FIFA UNDER IT'S BEAUTIFUL SKIN.
hawkeye76
17-11-2011, 13:07
OCKRASS
Interesting that you would come to the conclusion that I haven't played FIFA because I haven't enjoyed it. If that fits in with your argument, then thats fine, think what you like.
I have yet to give FIFA12 a good crack of the whip. Games tend to evolve more than change entirely however, so the chances of me liking the new one are slim. The few games Ive played have felt similar to previous versions. At least they have gone some way to fixing the tackling system. Previously ripped straight out of NHL hockey.
I have played and still own FIFA08,09,10,11 and have had many of the previous versions. I do not hate EA. I have no reason to. I certainly wouldn't keep giving them my money if i did. I may not have played as extensively as some, but I definitely played enough to gauge its worth. The FIFA games feel promising, like they should be good. So I play through the initial disinterest and lack of enjoyment. After playing more and getting competent they actually start to get worse. More issues arise plus the old ones don't get eradicated through better ability and understanding.
To sum up the differences between the 2 franchises on the PS3:
FIFA has better player control with less cpu interference, but the gameplay, AI and depth is worse.
PES has worse player control with too much CPU interference, but has better gameplay, AI and depth.
Notice I haven't mentioned anything about graphics, animations, nets, celebrations, licences etc, as these are unimportant for me.
Some people prefer the game with more control (25-1 apparently) but I prefer to battle through the lack of control to play the better game.
Although my football gaming has tailed off since the PS3 hit as all football games have been disappointing, I'm still better positioned than nearly anyone to rate a football game. Not that you will or should take my word for it.
I'm not trying to change your mind on FIFA. Its what you like playing, thats fine, I'm happy for you. But there are numerous problems with it that might make other people prefer to play PES, or other games.
I can't stand marmite, but I'm not going to tell other people they shouldn't eat it. Unless they are in my house, as Ive banned it. Cant stand the smell.
FIFA has the worst programming but the goal variation isn't too bad- you can do scorpion kicks on FIFA wheras on PES, I have never ever done it. Look at goals of the week by ksiolajidebt and you'll see it. Against the COM, PES is better because of it's programming but the difficulty levels don't make sense - for some reason superstar feels easier but when COM have, say, ribery on the ball my kolo toure can't outrun him. But when I have Messi on the ball, he can't even outrun Terry so they both need refurbishments. Pes overdo a lot of things and FIFA don't - the COM hardly ever make a mistake in passing wheras in FIFA They do time to time.
Also I just can't see individuality in PES - every defender make Godlike interceptions and people like Vidic can dribble with the ball close to his feet wheras FIFA don't make mistakes or errors lke this.
Also, players rarely ever score long shots in real life- depending on tactics. When Barca are in trouble, they rely on Xavi to do a killer pass or pass it down the wings to cross and score.
techboy11
17-11-2011, 13:42
FIFA has the worst programming but the goal variation isn't too bad- you can do scorpion kicks on FIFA wheras on PES, I have never ever done it. Look at goals of the week by ksiolajidebt and you'll see it. Against the COM, PES is better because of it's programming but the difficulty levels don't make sense - for some reason superstar feels easier but when COM have, say, ribery on the ball my kolo toure can't outrun him. But when I have Messi on the ball, he can't even outrun Terry so they both need refurbishments. Pes overdo a lot of things and FIFA don't - the COM hardly ever make a mistake in passing wheras in FIFA They do time to time.
Also I just can't see individuality in PES - every defender make Godlike interceptions and people like Vidic can dribble with the ball close to his feet wheras FIFA don't make mistakes or errors lke this.
Also, players rarely ever score long shots in real life- depending on tactics. When Barca are in trouble, they rely on Xavi to do a killer pass or pass it down the wings to cross and score.
I think this is where FIFA and PES people will always differ, for FIFA players 'goal variation' is something like dribbling past 5 players, 'scorpion kicks', rainbow flicks, all gimmicky bullshit stuff, this is a FIFA's interpretation of 'goal variation'.
A PES players interpretation of goal variation isn't the gimmicks stuff, it's the way that the move was created, the way the players work, the way you find a way to unlock a defence, and the variation in bobbles of the ball and bounces etc, the finishing side of things is just the eye candy, for PES players like me, it's how you get to that position that makes PES unique and something that FIFA players will never understand.
I don't want to do rainbow flicks and feints and cross overs and dribble past five players; if that's you're definition of goal variation then it's not what I'm after. The point is in PES, you can never score the same goal twice, because the build up is entirely different all the time.
In FIFA, I know I can get to point E, via point A then to B to C to D etc, because it's built like that. I also know that once I get to point E and am 'in position' by doing something on the controller like a trigger run will almost certainly get me a goal combined more often than not with finesse finish, these are glitch positions. In PES there are no glitch positions. To get to point E, sometimes you have to go A-B-S-C-B etc etc.
In fact point E may even more around because the AI is active both for you and against you, so nothing stays in place for long, that's why when you play PES it just isn't linear, because it cannot be, because the AI keeps changing.
I've got a video uploading, the latest game I've played, Liverpool v Arsenal, and I defy anyone to say that it is not a simulation of football in terms of attacking/defensive AI, chances, possession, range of play and passing, the way you have to manipulate space etc.
My bad, I thought you meant goal variation as in the different type of goals. FIFA do have small goal variation but again that is due to poor programing
markcross
17-11-2011, 15:38
abu why not just let go of all ur frustrations and realise its only a computer game, then maybe u can enjoy it more and stop analysing every aspect of it, i think its time we all agreed pes2012 is an amazing football game to be enjoyed
Sabatasso
17-11-2011, 16:06
I think sometimes you cannot even understand BASIC ENGLISH.
I think he knows the words, but he can't comprehend anything else than "yes" and "no". He actually shows signs of what we call "lack of intelligence" where I come from, but I have no proof to state such a claim, so I wont...
Make of that what you will, OCKRASS.
Stormrider
17-11-2011, 16:30
Goal variation in Pes 2012 for me is really lacking. It's at an all time low for a Pes game. I've scored the same type of goal from edge of box in about 90% of my matches. This year's Pes game is too much like the older Fifa games for me. It did start off promising, looking like it'll be my favourtie Pes but the more I play it the more it's becoming one of my least favourtie Pes. It's a shame but at least this is a good season for gamers. So many great games to choose from that are more worth my time and money then either footy games.
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