Interfering With Play 29/01/08
Posted by Dan Bolas in Interfering With Play on Tue 29 Jan 2008
Welcome to this weeks Interfering With Play. Continuing with the letter to Seabass, this week Interfering With Play will be looking at the online mode of PES2008, and the vital improvements that need to be made for the 2009 incarnation of the game. I would quickly like to take the opportunity to carry a point out from one of the comments made on last weeks article, regarding the game speed. As a football simulation, PES2008 is far to quick, and next years version needs to be slowed down slightly. Most PES gamers are seasoned ones, and are used to the style of pass and move, or working the ball to create space, however a lot of this is not required on PES2008 should you have a quick player or too, as speed is far to unrealistic. There were a lot of comments about PES2008 feeling too arcade like, and I believe that the speed was a reason for this. It would fall under the Game Play section covered last week, but I wish to bring it up quickly now, with thanks being expressed to MagicaRoma for drawing it to my attention.
Seabass Letter: Online
This week’s topic for the Seabass letter is regards the online element of PES2008, and possible ways it could be improved for 2009. Here, feel free to read the ideas, and comment on their importance to you as a PES gamer, along with developing any that may sound like a good idea. These are the collective views of many gamers, along with my own personal views and those of my PES playing mates.
There is absolutely no doubt that the online mode in PES2008 was a failure, and the weakest of all modes included in the game. The constant lag related problems, limited types of game modes (for example number of players) and outdated menu systems all led to a very disappointing experience for all gamers, many of whom were playing Pro Evolution Soccer for the first time in an online environment. Like First Person Shooters and other online sporting games, football games require instant response time from your on screen alter ego as a way of ensuring that you complete the desired action whilst it is still relevant, and unfortunately for PES, this just wasn’t a feature in this years game. I am not going to spend time now berating the poor quality of the online system any more than I have to, but instead give ways it can be improved for 2009.
The first option, and one, which everyone has experienced, is that no lag must occur, at any time, under any circumstances. No matter what stadium, whether conditions, ball or team is being used, the game should provide a level playing field for both gamers, which no slow down at key moments in and around the penalty area or on a crowded screen. This should go without saying, however it needs to be spoken about and sorted before an online mode can even be included in the game. In my opinion, and the opinion of my mates, we would rather have not had this shoddy attempt of an online mode than have it tacked on. It must be sorted, enough said.
Secondly, the fact that only 1v1 can play online is a little baffling to say the least. The talk among EA Sports is that Fifa 2009 are hoping to play 11 v 11 online, with every player being controlled by human gamers, meaning no A.I at any point. Konami must at least take note of this and given the option of you and an online friend teaming again another pairing, at a minimum. Other options such as being able to play 4v4 online could also be brought into play. Some have spoke of this effecting gamers online rankings, but it seems to work pretty well on Call Of Duty 4, with the option of playing alone or in a number of team based games all adapting around ways of gaining extra Exp. Points. I am fully aware this is the case on many other games as well. The same should be added when playing against players off your buddy list, having a simple link to access this same list in game, or follow the Sing star idea of bringing up your actual buddy list. The 360 a lot better than the PS3 for this, but it is still a long way from being of an acceptable standard. The whole purpose of online gaming is to bring numbers of people together, 1 on 1 game with strangers does not do this.
Downloadable content is a pretty hot topic at the moment for the Konami boys, and whilst they have released to updates to PES2008, attempting to rectify the abysmal offline lag problem, there is so much more that they could offer in this field. Both X Box Live and the PSN are hotbeds of this added extras option, with games like Guitar Hero and Motorstorm seeing gamers who have already parted with there £40 cash shelling out for added extras they really don’t need, but want. The option of downloadable squad lists, new boot packs, new stadiums or even new teams could all pop up online, with most gamers being more than willing to pay a few pounds to kit their players out in the latest footwear, or have Rooney wearing his UnderArmor just like in real life. This would also allow updated option files to be used in online play, a feature that would add a level of realism to online matches.
The option of creating your own online leagues or cups is one that should defiantly be introduced for the next version of the game. Games like NBA 2K7 have the option of drawing up your own tournaments, and having deadlines whereby you must have played all your fixtures. It’s a great way of giving an element of competition and can form new friendships among people from all over the world, something that is meant to be at the forefront of the whole Next Generation of Gaming. Many websites, including Play.com have tried to arrange these tournaments, with X League.tv probably being the most well known, however, the option of playing with mates who live away or spending Sunday Night online in a Mini League with the lads from work is something that will not only give you bragging rights for the next 7 days, but will also give so much structure to what are otherwise meaningless friendly matches.
What most of these points come down to, along with most of the flaws of the online mode for PES2008 is Konami’s lack of understanding for their online community. Konami have a reputation for making great games, such as International Track and Field, Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid. They sell by the bucket load and a not riddled with online features, knowing that the games are normally played either alone or in a party environment. It is plain to see that PES has a huge online fan base all over the world. I speak to gamers from Italy, Spain, Australia, American and Africa on a regular basis. There are many fan websites and even more forums dedicated to the topic of PES. Konami and Seabass need to take a long look at these factors and create an online mode as such. Feature the latest football news in either a news ticker form, or by linking directly to many football-based websites, I am sure many of them would love to feature in Pro Evolution Soccer. The menus and options when logging on need to be sorted out. No longer just a list of options, presented in a manor that is both boring and uninspired. The option of being placed in a division based on your online ability is ok, but people would rather have win/loss ratios and even the option to view the stats of recent matches as opposed to the last five matches and being rated in one of five ways. Unlike FPS games, rankings and ratings are not as much a part of football as is how many trophies you have won online, be they in mini tournaments or leagues. Evolve the community to be able to upload their favourite goals, with view to running an online Goal Of The Month competition, or even to write small Myspace style profiles about them selves and their footballing life. This is all stuff that is currently going on online anyway, but surely Konami taking it by the reigns will only make it grow bigger and better.
That is the main points I have received on the online front in the e-mails and comments. Any build up on this or possible ideas related to these can be sent to me via e-mail or left as comments at the bottom of this article
X-Rated
Me and my mates personally always go at the end of a match to see which player receives a good rating, thus deciding who the game has awarded Man Of The Match to. In previous versions, this took into account many things such as successful dribbles, pass completion rates, and headers and tackles won. On PES 2008, however, it seems to be limited to if you score a goal or set up a few you get 7.0 or 7.5, with a hat-trick ensuring an 8.0 and 5 goals rewarding you a 9.0. My questions are firstly, does anyone feel these ratings are slightly harsh, with goalkeepers only getting 6.0 for an excellent performance and even CM getting 5.5 for marking the opposition out the game. Football Manager has always seen 7 as the middle ground, whilst most newspapers give 6 for an average performance, surely PES should follow suit. Secondly, has anyone ever managed to get a 10.0 rating, thus dubbing it the perfect performance. PES5 saw me reach a couple of 9.5 and I have managed a few 9.0 on PES2008. But is a 10.0 an achievable score, and if not why does PES run on a system that is basically out of 19. Any views to the normal place, comments at the end, or in the inbox.
The Dark side
In order to research the online potential of the game, following another horrible experience on PES, I have purchased FIFA 2008 over the weekend. For many of you, this would be considered an unforgivable sin, and I have taken the appropriate verbal abuse from my mates for doing so. However, I felt that following the demo, I would give my first impressions of the game. Before I begin, I would like to say this is defiantly not a review of the game, as I have only played a handful of matches on it. I would also like to point out that I do not hate EA Sports, and whilst their ability to churn out a number of money spinning sequels or spin offs damages the sports gaming industry, there is no denying they have played a huge part in advancing the level, and indeed raising the bar for PES to keep having to jump over. The game itself is an improvement on FIFA 2007, and at times plays very much like a next generation game. Simple things such as the loading screens, the presentation and the graphics outline this. The game itself is still nowhere near as realistic as PES, with deflections defying the ways of Physics and the ball sticking to players like glue following lofted passes. Crossbars and posts seem to act as a magnet as opposed to a frame, with headers having over a 40% chance of hitting them when directed towards goal. Some modes, such as the be a pro mode have great scope for advancement, whilst features such as the downloadable squad updates (a must during the transfer window) and the huge amount of playable teams act as a reason for casual gamers to part with the cash.
Surprisingly, there are a few role reversals with PES in this version of Fifa. There is now a shop where you can unlock new strips and stadiums by winning games, and the edit mode is beefed up to make a few PES fans jealous. However, the commentary feels very tacked on in this version, with the same spiel coming out that has nothing to do with the action on the pitch, and the lack of in game officials is highly unusual. The one mode, which Fifa does stand tall on though, is the online mode. Along with lag free singles matches there is the option of up to 4v4 online, be it in the Be A Pro format or in a normal environment. Endless pages of the latest news from all around the world in just a click away, with tables, goal scoring charts and latest fixtures giving football fans data until their heart is content. It is something that Konami would do well to take note of. The underlining factor though, is after 10 games or so, including a few multi player ones, I took the disk out and returned to Pro, which still felt like the more realistic game. Graphics and Presentation aside, the online mode is the area PES needs to advance upon if it is going to win a battle with EA Sports.
A Baby Is Born
Now its January, it is very rare to be discussing the Christmas story, but there is one occurring under our very noses. Firstly the Saviour returns and now the Wise man has shown up. I am of course referring to Newcastle United, and the addition of Dennis Wise to the backroom of the club. All they need now is their god, Alan Shearer to go up there and they will be able to put on a full-scale nativity. It’s just a shame they got rid of Titus Bramble, as they has a perfect Donkey there too! In all seriousness though, and all blasphemy joking aside, it is going to need a miracle of such proportions to see Newcastle win anything in the next few years. I am not here getting on at Newcastle fans or indeed the club. I grew up watching them play some of the most attacking football I have ever seen, and bringing players like Ginola and Asprilla to the Premier League earned them the respect of most neutrals up and down the country. This was at a time though, when £15 Million would buy you a goal scoring legend, whereas £16 Million will nowadays buy you a bench warmer in London, just ask Darren Bent. The introduction of Dennis Wise, a guy who has shown great promise as a coach and manager with both Millwall and the un-fancied Leeds job, is one that will have raised more eyebrows than most decisions, and again will question just how capably Keegan is of being a top-flight manager. In recent history, any football man who has been brought in above the manager has led to the demise of said manager, just ask Jose Mourinho and Harry Redknapp during his first Pompey stint.
There is no one person who can deny that Newcastle has a great fan base, at the end of the day 51,000 at the home games and a hearty away following confirms such thoughts. But again, this is supporting a top footballing side in the top division. Leeds manage to draw in 30,000 plus whilst playing in footballs third tier, and they are very much an exception to the rule. With most attendances in the North being less than flattering, namely Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton and Middlesbrough, is it still fair to say that Newcastle are playing in the top flight, and that whilst every fan deserves success the Newcastle fans have no god given right to expect it more than any other. In the past few years, players have been leaving Newcastle to move to other clubs in order to progress their career. Players like Jenas, Dyer, and Bowyer, and to a lesser extent Bellamy all had their problems up north, but all were first team regulars and moved on in order to play for clubs that they believed to be bigger than Newcastle. And instead, Newcastle have brought in players such as Duff, Owen, Alan Smith and Nicky Butt, players who have passed their peak and are far from showing the form that made them household names in their younger days. As I support Wolverhampton Wanderers, a club also rich in history and been dubbed a sleeping giant many a time, I can appreciate the situation Newcastle fans find themselves in, however, they need to realise there is no easy fix, and that as before, you can only be considered a big club by winning silverware and finishing in the top four of your respective league.
That’s your lot for this week. As always thanks for your many e-mails, I do read them all. I have had a pretty busy week these last seven days and am sorry to not have replied to certain people. Richard Fullerton, I will be more than happy to provide you with that, but it will take a few days in order for me to sort it, please e-mail me if you are still interested. danbolas@hotmail.com is the place you can reach me; alternatively air your views in public by clicking at the bottom of this article. Next week, the letter will be focussing on the Edit option, and how it can be improved for PES 2009
Thanks for Reading
yes… 10 rating is achievable. Me and my mate played as spurs in master league on pes 6 on ps2 and bought torres. we managed to gethim to score 8 goals with one assist and he got the perfect 10!! i took a picture of it…its my background on my pc!! pretty sad but im proud of it!!
Here are my suggestinos for the online side of life:
* first and foremost - konami must hold a limited beta testing period similar to COD4 to iron out multiplayer gaming issues - particularly lag.
* downloadable content - i sincerely hope we get 30+ stadiums and decent amounts of boots/kits etc readily available on initial purchase. downloadable content should be for additional items, not integral ones.
* custom leagues - this is an absolute must!
* for menu systems - please Konami - copy EA! they have nailed human computer interaction for menus, so just use their menu system (with a few slight tweaks for legal purposes..) - why re-invent the wheel?
* quitters - this is a personal pet hate. i’d like a system implemented which punishes quitters properly. quit three games in an hour and you can’t play online for an hour. quit more games and mete out various time based bans so that habitual poor losers get banned from playing competetively online for up to a month (should be longer!) to discourage them from polluting the gaming experience genuine gamers seek.
too often i get games where i’m really punishing poor play by being more than 3+ goals up, and the opponent quits, only giving you a standard 3-0 win. why not make them drop more points or go into a quitters league where they can only play other quitters, which would be the perfect punishment.
* we should have a minimum of 4 vs 4 online. But to be honest, given pes2008, i’m setting my standards very low - as long as we get a lag-free 1v1 game with proper gameplay, then i’ll be happy!
That’s all for now folks…
Dougiedonut
Good article, but your points about Newcastle are laughable. The players that left didn’t leave to go to bigger clubs - they left because either they were rubbish (Jenas), or had lost their first team place (Dyer and Bowyer), or had fallen out with management (Bellamy).
I don’t follow your point regards attendances, either? What exactly are you trying to say?
Some great points Dan, but cant agree with your comments with you having played FIFA for a few hours. Ive been a PRO EVO fan since ISS, always thought FIFA was a kids toy, but, ive clocked up over 150 games online on FIFA now, and i think its superb. It takes some getting used to if you jump across from PRO EVO but with perseverence it is rewarding and realistic. Oce you get the feel, the posts are no longer magnetic, you can perform superb headers that go into the net, missing both posts and the crossbar!!! PES 2008 on the other hand looks and plays NOTHING like real football, i had such high hopes for it too, i still play it to see if i am mistaken but its worse everytime i try it, a total mess, unrealistic graphics, gameplay, animations, ball physics the lot!!…but….i believe seahorse KNOWS all of this and 2009 will be a vast improvement, given this and the leaps and bouns that FIFA has taken and indeed will take, next autumn can only produce 1 winner, thats US the gamer.
To that idiot newcastle fan pete, get real my friend. Jenas is a player that quit because he wanted the london life, not a life that wherever he went he was in a fish bowl with all the sad idiots that would not leave him alone, same went with Dyer.
The attendance record at newcastle means nothing, they are a very poor quality side, very poor. To lose to Arsenal 2 times within 4 days with both a 3-0 defeat has really shocked me. Newcastle fans need to get real, the toon army died when keegans first management reign came to an end. NEWCASTLE UNITED are a very small club, a club with no traditions.
How can this shit club get keegan back, the same weeping idiot that cried “id love it, id love it if we beat them” speaking about beating man utd in the title race, but even then this SMALL CLUB CALLED NEWCASTLE UNITED lost with that massive 9 point lead.
So pete, fuck off back to your fish bowl, your shit small club will always be a small club. I undertand that Sunderland are bigger. More tradition and better, much better fans, not loke the dead toon.
FUCK OFF PETE.
everyone the new patch is out, 1.20
WOOOOHOOOOO NO MOOOORE OFFLINE LAAAAAAG
This game is absolutely shite to hell with u seabat or what the efff ur name is. us aint getting my money no more u made enough
Jesus Andy, you really do take these things to heart….
I agree that many Newcastle fans do seem to think that they have some god given right to be top of the league, and that Keegan is along way off being a quick fix, but to say that they are not a big club (and to state it in such an obscene way) is first childish and second untrue. Their attendance records both home and away speak for themselves.
I also laughed when you say that the small club called newcastle lost the league title when they were so far ahead. The fact they were in the position isnt enough? when was the last time Sunderland were 10 points clear in the league or reached a cup final???????
I’m not a newcastle fan by the way, before you abuse me with your tones.
He must be a disgruntled Leeds fan… or maybe another big club like Sheffield Wednesday, or Nottingham Forest.
He He. Well you boys can argue about who’s a big club and who’s not but spare a thought for us Gillingham fans (yeah there is more than one, just!). We lose all our best players to bigger clubs, have no money, not many fans and may be on the verge of selling our ground to keep the bank off our backs for another month.
Mind you come to think of it…..Had we beaten Man city in the playoff finals about 8yrs ago when they bribed the ref, we might be in the top half of the premier league with Sven as our manager now!
Oh well if we play our socks off we could still make the Championship and who knows we might even get to play Newcastle next year! :>
i cant believe no one is impressed with my 10 rating with torres at spurs in master league…is was on top player as well!! out done by a squabble ova newcastle. shucks.
Yes, I also got a 10 rating. In fact, i think i have achieved that on three ocasions but two of those were not in Top Player difficulty. The third time i did get it in Top Player by scoring 9 goals in one match. I also took a picture of my tv, specially because my team in Juventus and I beat Inter 12-0.
RESPONSE TO DOUGIEDONUT
Agree with how annoying it is when people quit online when they’re losing. What’s the bloody point in playing then? Not sure about the suggested punishments though! Ha ha. They should just lose ten-nil, since that’s not a common scoreline, so make a choice - lose, let’s say, 5-2 having actually played, or cut your losses and take a ten-nil thrashing?
As for the online play, it’s truly horrible. I only just started playing online, and although I’m really quite crap (and accepted a 5-0 loss, thank you very much, against one of the MILLION people who insist on playing as Barcelona), a worrying number of goals I’ve conceded have been during a moment of insane lag. Cheers.
Response to swoslod
I think quitters just can’t take being played off the park. These sort of players should just be somehow banned from live at the earliest opportunity - they should just plug in a second controller and have a two player game against nobody to feel good about themselves.
The whole point of a ranked game is to test yourself against other players.
If you’re not good enough, then improve! I have taken a few sound beatings on live, but you dust yourself off and try again.
The other aspect of pes games that need to be sorted out is the constant overkilling of watching replays. You get some freaks who either score a tap-in, or sometimes a half decent goal, but repeat it from every conceivable angle for as long as they can keep a hard on. There needs to be a way to limit the showboating of a replay to say 30 seconds max.
There’s nothing more annoying than a gloating tw@t on live after a goal.
Perhaps a new pairing system is needed which can looks at the last 5 teams you have selected, and if you’re consistently playing a top tier team (barca, man u etc) then you only get paired with other players playing with these teams. That’s the best thing to do with people like that.
That would leave other people who like to experiment with lesser teams to be able to be more likely to play against other like minded players.
FIFA “It takes some getting used to if you jump across from PRO EVO but with perseverence it is rewarding and realistic.”
So you may get used to the: “deflections defying the ways of Physics and the ball sticking to players like glue following lofted passes. Crossbars and posts seem to act as a magnet as opposed to a frame, with headers having over a 40% chance of hitting them when directed towards goal.” but is that really what you want?
FIFA might be getting better, but it still has these intrinsic flaws. Even with just a few games under your belt, you have hit the nail on the head.
I’ve played and seen numerous matches of FIFA 2008, and I’m yet to see the player glued to the ball. At least more of it than you see in PES. I agree that the ball physics could be better, though. But overall, sadly, I deem FIFA’s gameplay better. Any feeling of “strangeness”, “weirdness” and difficulty to score is natural as a PES fan and disappears after a while, leading to a solid gaming experience. I’m sorry, but the pace of PES is what put me off it. The game is plain unrealistic! Currently I play none of the two, as I have a PC and quit PES after winning 3 games in a row with over 10 goals in each (and one aggregate win of over 23!!). That’s a disgrace, and at least FIFA, in my experience, doesn’t let you.
who ever thinks fifa is better than pes is a total bell end!!!!
pes is superior on every aspect ( ok maybe not everything) but certainly game play, fifa the goals all the same, pes the fun factor which this all about is by far superior on pes even with the faults.
why oh why cant konami just buy the rights for all the kits etc!!! pes would be near perfect if it had all the upto date kits like fifa does. someone out there please, someone with a vision, a dream and maybe a top job at konami with a mate who works for EA please work out some kinda deal to combine the slick look of fifa and the game play of pes!!
what a dream. this game if ever produced would dominate the market and would be worth the investment of buying the rights of kits and team names etc.
if only…dreams…came true.
Soon They will have funds to buy the rights to teams etc.
Does any of you chaps know how some people have more conversation phrases during the online gameplay??????????
If so how can i do it, all i have at the moment is “don’t worry”, “im Sorry” etc
i was a hardcore fifa playe up until this year when i purchased pes 2008 and i have to say that so far pes is beating fifa hands down. the big plus, for me, i the player likenesses which i think is one of the major points and the gameplay is also so much more realistic in my opinion.
anyone played or heard much about the PSP version yet? Its meant to be released in a couple of weeks but not seen much on it
GREAT UPDATE 1.2 IS OUT, AND GUESS WHAT…ONLINE LAG IS STILL PRESENT!!!!
particularly in stadiums other than konami stadium!
Yes the problems of one second your running towards goal then literally a split second and dodgy camera movement later your goal keeper has the ball or the other team has a free kick!!!!!
sort it out, now!
Great article - loving the Interfering With Play series. Insightful posts with some really good suggestions. Lets just hope Konami is reading these!
BUT, there is still no excuse to play the ‘F’ game, research or not. Traitor! ;p
by the way any1 know wen WENB will be maiking a new option file for all the new transfers etc for feb as there was one released in november with all kits..transfers etc any1 knw? also lag time is too much of an issure what is the point of all of these updates when it doesnt do hardly nythin if nythin…there has to be a final update which sorts out lag online n offline:D
Gotta say its interesting reading some of the comments made, especially the lag & option files. Well I nearly got a bit carried away & thought the online & offline lag may be sorted at the same time….. typical PES dreamer I know but hey might only take another 6 months if ever to put that right. The option files surely shouldnt be the issue here, the licencing would sort that out, have EA really stitched the whole world football rights up? Previous editions & the fact at least 2 Premier League clubs are fully licenced & other leagues too would suggest Konami as usual are doing it on the cheap!!
Certainly there seems to be no beta testing at all afterall how could such an obvious flaw as laggin on a non HD tv not be picked up??? Its also annoying that most of the top clubs players seem to have been on some kind of Ukrainian athletes substances or the like as they can all seem to be able to run sub 10 second 100m times and with a ball stuck at their feet!
So what I was thinking was what kinda of football songs would be be singing if Konami were our team? Well one that springs to mind would be “Sack the Board”
Just to add my comments on the Newcastle “discussion” I’d say they are a big club as attendences would agree so… well while they are premier league anyway! And at some point Keegan is going to realise he’ll need to do more than just turn up again and realise that the games changed since he was challenging Taggart to a war of words… And Pete I’m a Wednesday fan & please dont tar us with the same brush as Leeds, we are and always will be bigger than them. We may not be challenging for the title like we were early ninties but we’ve been established longer & we are from the Home Of Football.
yo yo yooo its me dwhizzzle im so annoyed with konami i think they should at least re release pes2008 with improved online mode i dont mind paying again, i just hate dissapointmentS!! now in life dissapointment is a daily basis but u would fink considering money is everything u could purcase a game to at least represent the older version!! but for some reason u can have groups in pes2008 online but no 2v2?? its like they thought fuck it leave the groups and shit but we cant be bothered to sort 2v2 out
tell me whats the point
does anyone know if online is playable yet on the ps3? I’ve been holding off buying pes 2008, but am thinking about buying it today, but if online is still so bad its literally unplayable, then I mite not bother