Interfering With Play 17/06/08
Posted by Dan Bolas in Interfering With Play on Tue 17 Jun
Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. At the time of writing, it is possible that both Italy and France could be out of the European Championships during the group stages, and Germany look far from convincing as they scrape through. On the other hand, Portugal, Holland and Spain all look exceptionally strong contenders to go all the way and my Croatian boys are looking good! An interesting point raised in a comment last week, that players are playing for passion not money is something that I do like about the Euros. Most players in the Croatian, Turkish or even Romanian squads would not find a place in the top clubs in Spain or England. The fact that they not only hold their own, but also outperform these players on the International stage is a testament to both excellent coaching, and the correct attitude from the players. I mean, none of the England squad wanted to miss Rooney’s wedding, so European Qualification wasn’t an option. Lets get going with this week’s article.
Space: The Final Frontier
First point tonight is something that has been raised by evo_legend, and had been backed up on many other message boards and forums. The majority of PS3 games nowadays feature a mandatory install ranging from a few hundred MB to a huge 5GB, which decreases loading times. For those gamers with 20GB hard drives or even 40GB on their PS3 consoles, space is starting to become an issue, with large game collections having to be sacrificed in order to play the latest titles. There is an option to simply expand your hard drive, but by doing so the original data of many games will no longer be on your system. I open the floor to the PESGaming.com community as to whether it is a good idea to shrink these loading times. I personally hate waiting for games to load half way through a level or between each race/round, but feel Sony needs to address the issue of space management with official storage devices, be they USB style memory cards or larger hard drives. 360 users don’t currently have this option to install many games, but would it be something you would want to see in order to shave loading times, especially on games like Smackdown Vs. Raw 2008. Finally, has anyone tried to place a new Hard Drive into your PS3? I know it does not invalidate the warranty and is perfectly legal, but still seems risky when dealing with hours upon day’s worth of saved data. Your views would be appreciated.
I Open Up The Floor
Whilst doing my weekly read through various forum comments on this website, I had to smile as I came across a number of comments still claiming Fifa 2008 to the a superior game to Pro Evolution Soccer 2008, and that only Fanboys think that PES 2008 is the better game. Regular poster Steve From Stoke brought this up again as a comment in Interfering With Play, however for the first time, I am willing to give EA Sports gamers the opportunity to pass on why Fifa 2008 is the stronger game. I own both titles and have played Fifa 2008 for a number of hours, online and offline, with mates and on my own. As I have been saying for months, the online set up of Fifa is much better than that of Konami’s game, for the simple fact it works and is linked into the menu system much better. Graphically, there are very few gamers that would argue Fifa 2008 is not the better-looking game. PES has come along way over the past 10 years, as has Fifa, but player models and light rendering techniques do make for some pretty impressive looking images. But when it comes to game play, Fifa 2008 is still a long way behind. Any realism of player models, stadium likenesses and exact replica shirts are worth nothing when the AI runs away from you. Aerial battles are based on luck, not judgement and set pieces require very little skill. The trick moves are the epitome of EA Sports, whilst looking excellent and giving the player the illusion of being able to do one of hundreds of combinations, all give a very similar result and have very little impact on what goes on in a match. For all the nice menu screens, presentation and game modes, Fifa 2008 lets itself down in the biggest place possible, on the pitch, and gamers who believe it to be the superior game are those who are too dazzled by the presentation to realise the substance is very much lacking. Yes, it is getting better than maybe 5 years ago, but it is still a long way from the goal mouth scrambles, defensive master classes and keep ball sessions constantly seen in PES matches. Fifa gamers, if you’re reading this, defend the game.
I Saw Her Face, And Now I’m An Achiever
My next point relates to PES to an extent, but can be taken further to many game genres. Since the introduction of the achievement system on X Box 360, and with the imminent trophy system arriving on PS3, game developers seem to feel this is enough to warrant completing a game. Rather than giving gamers new levels, weapons or characters, they are instead asking us to complete the game again without using the jump button, or by only using the analogue stick! The same is for Pro Evolution Soccer, whereby the track record, whilst being a good introduction, has been brought in to have gamers try and complete tasks for no reward over than a stamp, as a way of covering over the lack of shop or very few unlock able teams or players. Some games do offer bonus videos, concept art or soundtrack options, but unless your into that kind of thing, it is not going to make you want to go back to play a game again and again. Imagine completing a game only to have to play each boss battle as the boss itself, or even play the entire title from the view of the end boss, killing good guys until you finally meet your match in the form of the games hero. Or giving a new selection of racetracks that feature physical obstacles being places on the road, even having to avoid people as you race around the course. Fifa has always offered alternate strips when completing tournaments, or by buying them using in game currency, but I am thinking of actual game play modes. For example, being able to play the game using old-fashioned rules, with back passes being allowed to be picked up by the GK, and only one sub being available. Couple this with harder balls, more lenient refs and even old style TV presentation and commentators and you have a completely different gaming experience. The same could be said for adding indoor football, 7 a side or even unlocking pub style pitches, complete with bias linesmen, bobbling pitches and muddy goalmouths. As I mentioned before, there is more and more focus on aftercare when it comes to games, and by adding these things, you will satisfy gamers for a longer period of time, and keep challenges fresh an original. It might simply be a case of downloadable content has replaced the unlockable now. Instead of having to be skilled at a game in order to gain new levels or weapons, you simply have to hand over more cash. For some games like Sing star or Guitar Hero, I fully agree with this kind of content, but sport and FPS games should have their own extra, game play based content included upon successfully completing in game challenges.
Easy, Easy, Easy
I consider myself a decent PES player. As soon as a respectable online mode of the game is available, I will offer open challenges on Interfering With Play, with big shout outs being made available for those who defeat me, or even give me a good game. I would not claim to be unbeatable, but can give anyone a good game. I have won the Master League on Top Player without signing any superstars and have a win ratio in the high 90% region. At times, I have been tempted to call the game too easy like many people out there, especially when turning over a ‘big team’ on the top rating. However, the game will always through you a curve ball, such as a 4-1 hammering by Germany as Croatia or a 3-0 battering as Portugal by Holland. Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 may not be over difficult, but it is definitely not an easy game, by any stretch of the imagination.
That’s it for this week’s article. I have intentionally avoided the Cristiano Ronaldo subject until he comes out and decides his future, whether he stays or goes will be spoken about in Interfering With Play in coming months. I am currently loving Metal Gear Online, anyone who is playing this excellent game at the moment will find me on the there as The Bolder. Leave comments on anything you have read above, or anything of interest, and I will bring them up in future articles. You can also e-mail me on danbolas@hotmail.com if you have anything you wish to stress in private, or of particular length.
Thanks for Reading
Definitely been a great Euro’s so far, gutted that the French or Italians will be knocked out tonight……. Quietly walks away and s****s to himself! Only kidding!…… No, actually I’m not.
With regard to the load times thing. I’m am entirely sure where I stand on this one.
Having always been a Sony consumer, I am disappointed that I have still to get myself a PS3, but, I suppose that this is first time Sony have given me a reason to doubt a product. Anyway after having the beautiful glossy black machine in my house for a couple of days (a friends), I am convinced that I must now have one, even if that means that my child going hungry……. Only for a while, I swear, a couple of weeks, come on, He’ll be fine! Back to PS3, I want Dual Shock 3 in the box for one, until that happens I ain’t buying, rumble packs are god given and should never be under estimated. I want them to settle on the product, 20G, 40G, 60G, 80G? Backward compatible, not Backward compatible? Most of all I want to see developers to start making a few more noises in the direction of PS3 builds ported to Xbox, not, as is at present, the other way around. God I am going on! Anyway, my point is, having a Playstation in my home felt right, it stood gleaming, somewhat like the black plinth in the film Space Oddessy 2001. Performance wise I felt that the loading thing was a really great piece design by Sony. It is the right way to go if we are to ever truly get the next gen games we want and, as a Xbox360 owner, it does make a hell of a difference in the games I have played. I would have no problem with the hard drive install before play as, believe me, there is a difference, and I hate my game being broken by loading. I understand your the point regarding the drive space, but, I understand that Sony are looking at save game compression as we speak, so, hold fire on that one, could simply be in the form of a firmware update?
I too have owned both FIFA08 & PES2008; the only game left in my collection is PES. FIFA simply lacks ‘Soul’. I do not agree that the player design in FIFA and graphics generally better, the players in FIFA rarely look like their real life doubles and when they do, they look like waxwork replicas. FIFA has possibly the worst sweat effect ever seen in any game ever, ever…. Ever!
Great IWP this week.
Well Dan, thanks for bringing my point up in this weeks IWP.
To be honest, I generally agree that games install are a good idea esp if it adds to the overall experience of the game and effectively eradicates load times. However, I just wonder how far developers will go with this? MGS4’s install is almost 5GB, will we see future games go further than this? Let’s face it 5GB is 1/8 of the 40GB console & when you take into account that 15GB is set aside for firmware updates it accounts for even more than this.
I honestly hope this data compression rumour is true and Sony are working on a solution…That said, I think I am goin to invest in a 320GB hard drive. They are actually not as expensive as I first thought and I should never have to delete any more content again…!!!
You can always save your games saves to a flash drive, install a new, bigger HDD and then copy them to the newly installed HDD. Easy as that.
As for PES2008 being too easy, I have to agree on the fact that it is in fact TOO EASY. The game will throw a curve ball but in the form of a draw, I’ve yet to be beaten on top player for 5 straight seasons. I’ve drawn, at most, 2 games per season and have not been edged in any of the cup games. I’ve sold all my best players and my team’s average age is over 30. I’ve had to find ways to challenge myself by forcing myself not to back pass or to make sure that only one person on my team is allowed shots on goal. And still, it’s too easy.
As for FIFA, I’ll pass on that topic, I will say that they’ve always had the edge on looks, but it’s what’s on the inside that counts and FIFA is a shallow and flawed game in terms of gameplay. No matter how much you polish a turd, it’s always going to be a turd.
It might be my first time posting on this column but here is why:
Fifa08 [b]is[/b] better than winning eleven, for me, having both games still doesn’t make you a fair judge on which game delivers the most, like people who say they own both the ps3 and xbox: I think it’s just some sort of self-fulfilling thing that I will never understand. Anyway, I will make a list of things that I like and dislike about both games so everyone can understand why Fifa is better:
[b]Fifa:[/b]
the good: licenses (ofcourse), wider ranger of teams, more colourful pitches (talking about grass), most likely you won’t get a lot of goals during a single match, I actually do like the pace of fifa after the patch: it gives you time to build up attacks instead of frenzy hectic play in PES this time around, better passing, great runs, skills system, online play, great presentation great menus, innovative be a pro mode, lots of unlockables, crazy statistics, players now seem and feel different: rooney will barge through defenders and ronaldo can slick his way in, great fluid animations that are truly next gen. instead of moving in 8 directions.
the bad: shooting: ball is often out of target and when it is the goalkeeper will most probably deflect it, unrealistic adboards, lame fans, players models can be better, defenders aren’t placed as good as pes, although formations have improved they’re still not as thorough as PES, no weather effects.
[b]now as for PES:[/b]
the good: player faces look realistic (well almost, not all of them and when combined with these robotic runs it’s even worse), good crowd effects (well anything is better than fifa’s), defensive players are placed properly, shooting, great formations system that really has a big impact on the field.
the bad: players run like robots in 8 directions, passes are dreadful, players’ collisions are unrealistic: good players will just burst through defenders’ bodies, not enough licenses(not even close), bad music, bad presentation, online mode (where to start?), slow downs even offline, doesn’t offer something valuable over pes6 (which is by far a better game), not a lot of unlockables, ball weighs a bit more over than a ton, the game is so fast that it moved the game from being a sim to arcade, you can identify hot spots where you can just guarantee to score from just like any other previous PES versions.
Ok, I’m done. Hope somebody reads it just to make sure that I haven’t wasted 20 mins of my life in vain.
I don’t think PES 2008 is easy on top player because the computer can immediately respond when you score. However, it is easy to score using the old cut-back and pass it to the middle for an on-coming striker. The other easy way to score is to shoot from the edge of the 18 while dribbling at an angle. I feel like the computer does not really attack to its full potential until you actually score. The CPU will immediately respond with a nice opportunity on goal or even a goal.
In terms of PES 2008 being the superior game, I think my review will explain my point of view:
The gameplay feels very much like Winning 10 but faster which is a dissapointment because when the ball is kick for a goal kick, the ball looks almost like it has been shot out of a cannon. The hangtime for the ball does not look realistic. The passes are strung around at a very fast ping rate and it reminds me of FIFA 2000. OMG The goalkeepers have got WORSER! The keepers will throw the ball into their own net if you shoot hard from an angle and spill the ball right in front of the opposition. In WE10, the keepers were bad but now in 2008 they are incompetent except one-on-one where there is an improvement. The graphics are really good with amazing faces, nice grass, fan cut-scenes,and celebrations. The music is so cheesy that I cannot stand it. I had to take out several bad tracks from the playlist. The crowd look very pixelated and grey, absolutely ugly as vomit. The menus have received a face lift and look pretty good. The edit mode sucks donkey balls. You have 12 kit templates to choose from and you cannot change the emblems of clubs for menus,only on kits. We need a better edit mode since only Newcastle and Spurs are licensed. I have noticed some slowdown but not that much like some reviews have mentioned. I have an 1080 ip HDTV so that might be why but on a standard tv it can be painful to watch.
WE 10 was at least playable online with only some lag issues. I used to play online alot back then since it is so easy to hook up on a PS3 but people only used Inter or Barcelona, annoying and boring. PES 2008 online is virtually unplayable because it lags like a biatch and the ball dissapears too often in addition to players teleporting across the field. Konami has apologized publicly for this and will attempt to fix it. However, Konami has already released a patch for PC and it was unsucessful. Most likely playing online will not be an option for me.
Overall, the game is fun to play with some mates but I rather play FIFA 08 for manager mode purposes. It is too easy to score in PES and very hard to defend. The players are so stupid and don’t make runs on the wings. The defense AI for the computer has got really good but incredible retarded when playing for you against the CPU. The defense will watch strikers go past them and not even help out the player you have chosen to take control of. The only flaw about FIFA gameplay is the response time in which player pass and shoot the ball. In FIFA, the players will not respond immediately when going for a thru pass and it allows the opponent to react. IF EA can fix this, they will make Konami and SeaBass go out of the Footie Business. For me, Winning Eleven 9 is the pinnacle of excellence and it cannot be rivaled by any of these 2 games. Why did they have to make the 2008 so arcadey. Some people were wondering where to insert the coin.
It is not a case of PS3 vs. XBOX 360 since they are identical with less slowdown on the latter. It is a programming issue that Konami cannot solve. Last year, Konami had the excuse that next-gen technology was fairly new to them but promise PES 2008 to be the best footy game ever. Well, they blew it again and now SeaBass comes out ashamed of how 2008 turned out and bitched about he had not enough employees and time before the release.
Player models in FIFA look good from the neck down, except when the jersey flaps with the wind which make the players look overweight. The faces are horrendous but that has been fixed in the Euro 2008 game which has the best player model that I have seen in any footy game.
Back to the topic:
PES 2008 faces are nice nut they look like animated cartoons. The bodies in PES 2008 are terrible. The uniforms look like they were made from plastic. The kits don’t wrinkle and they are too shiny to look like any kind of fabric. In PES 2008, all the players bodies look the same. You can compare Jan Koller and Milan Baros, and the only difference is the height. The physique are the same, thin players and bulky players don’t look any different. The shoulders of every player are wide and the models looked to be stretched. I would love to see skinny players Nasri and Rosicky have slight frames.
In PES 2008, it all comes down to the condition arrows and stats. If a player is fast and has good stats and condition, he is always going to beat the defenders no matter how good their positioning is. A great defender like Cannavaro will always lose to Messi, if the through ball is played at the time that both players are parallel to each other. Cannavaro’s strength and positioning is not taken into account. The through-balls feel like they are tied by an invisible string between the passes and the receiver. The other defenders on the team get caught “ball watching” and don’t even try to cut down the angle of the pass to the middle of the box where another attacker is simply waiting to tap it in. Messi will receive the through-ball with enough time and space to pass into the middle for Henry to hammer it home. The keeper gets stranded by his defence and does not even try to intercept the lateral pass despite the fact that you can immediately tell that you are going to get scored on. The CPU controlled defenders don’t track the movement of the strikers that they should marking really close. Instead, they either try to help their teammate close down the player on the wing or they will trail right behind the striker and get caught in no-man’s land. Passing now involves less build-up and you can now penetrate the defense with a mere 5 passes. No longer do you carefully have to choose a path to carve the defense or wait till the defense over-commits to find an opening. All you simply have to do is keep passing it forward and throw in a one-two and the defense will get caught out of position and flat-footed. Hopefully the game I grew up loving gets a face-lift in the gameplay department since that is the only aspect I am interested in. I could care less how many teams are fake, as long as there is some substance. New concepts need to be introduced to the gameplay, because it currently feels outdated and primitive. The throw-ins are a great example of this. I should be able to control the movement of the receiver and the thrower. I should not be limited to two receivers to pass to and there should not be a “protective shield” to ensure that no one intercept the throw-in. There is alot more that I would like to be added in PES 2009, but simply I seemed to be losing patience with Konami’s idea of recycling the same gameplay engine and slapping a new cover with a star player on it while charging full price. The way I see it, it is like in real-life where the top football clubs always dominate their respective leagues for the simple fact that they are able to buy the best personnel and players. In this case, EA Sports plays the role of the wealthy Chelsea and Konami plays the role of Fulham in hopes that they can survive another season without getting relegated. If by the time that PES 2009 is released and there is not a consensus that it is the best Pro Evo ever, then Konami needs to think about selling the franchise to another brand. Pro Evolution Soccer 2K10 could be a possibility.
RE: achievements I have scored 2 free kicks in ranked match online and no achievement unlocked, also should have the ultimate player achievement as I have just finished winning master league and played over 500 games scored 1000 goals, still not unlocked.
Re KingShorty, the issue is not about game saves but about game installs!!! Game saves take up very little space! Whereas game installs take up hundrerds of MB’S even GB’s at a time!!! Anyway, I have just ordered a 320GB HD off ebay - can’t wait to put it in my machine & my space worries will be a thing of the past!
I can’t say loading times bother me on a home console, however, I wish Sony would develop some sort of download system for the PSP!! Some of the games are still stupidly long.
My main gripe though with new games is the fact that developers have started selling them in certain retailers with additional content. For instance, go onto play.com and have a look at some of the new releases coming up and it will say that it has exclusive downloadable/unlockable content. I think it was Codemasters that started this offering different cars on a racing game depending on which shop you bought it in. Personally I think this is ridiculous!! Does this mean that we will eventually have to buy PES 3-5 times just to see/get all of the content/teams!?! Not only this but it means you’ll have to put up with THAT shops prices. For instance HMV still try and sell some 360 games for £50. There is no way that I would pay that and not be able to trade in against that.
On the PES v Fifa debate. Personally I am a PES fan and have always been. However, the past two years have seen me buy the Fifa game on my PSP as I feel that it plays a much better game on it and the lack of 4 shoulder buttons really ****s up PES for me on PSP. I still think PES has the edge but I think it needs to incorporate some of Fifa’s things like being able to send colleagues on runs rather than having them stay still even though there is a blatent opportunity for them to get into space. I’ve noticed that the manual pass helps with this a bit but it needs sorting out in PES 09.
Hahahahahahahaha Croatia are out!
Unlucky!