Interfering With Play – Tuesday 25th November 2008
Posted by Dan Bolas in Interfering With Play on Tue 25 Nov
IWP League Champion 2008: Martin Ginnelly (River Plate)
Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. PESGaming.com has been dominated this week by the list of suggested improvements for the Pro Evolution Soccer franchise, posted by Double D several days ago. The list, for those who have been under a rock or are new to the site, was presented to a Konami representative as a way of expressing the ‘concerned’ views of the PESGaming.com public and indeed the views of the general Pro Evolution Soccer community. My opinion of the topics covered in the list is not important either way, but I feel a pat on the back is due for Double D, who spent his free time going to do something about these issues he personally felt needed addressing. It would be wrong of me not to give him the kudos for putting the effort in, and hopefully Konami will take these issues on board in some way, shape or form during the developmental stage of the next Pro Evolution Soccer title. Simple point that I felt should have been brought to everyone’s attention before we go any further, so let’s crack on with IWP.
“Shine, Shine Like A Star”
Another quite basic point to start up this week’s column, and it is one that I would love anyone to shine any light on. It is regarding the trophy feature on PES2009 for Playstation 3, which was promised in an official statement by Konami prior to the games release. 360 will be sitting smug at this point, with their full X Box Achievement points being earned on every game they play and every target they hit, but those using Sony’s console are still waiting for the PS3 equivalent, trophies. I don’t want to go into the technicalities too much, as I have mentioned this a couple of times before, but for those who are unfamiliar, Achievements and Trophies are targets set by completing various in game tasks, and doing so earns you either a designated number of gamer points (360) or a Gold, Silver or Bronze trophy (PS3). This basically allows for bragging rights within the online gaming world, and a way of lengthening a particularly enjoyable title with a set of different goals.
All 360 games (as I have been corrected!) feature these Achievements and at the current moment, maybe one third of current Playstation 3 titles have trophies, but Pro Evolution Soccer was meant to feature a trophy system for the PS3 version and it appears to have been forgotten by Konami. Those familiar with the PS3 will be more than aware that games using trophy patches, in other words all titles updated to feature trophy compatibility, do not feature backwards support, meaning as soon as that game updates, you have to complete all the tasks again to achieve the trophies. Something like winning a Master League or your first International Goal on Become A Legend mode is not a small task, and as from playing 500 games from scratch, this is an issue that could cause a great deal of annoyance to PES gamers using the black box. I ask tonight if anyone could shed any light on whether or not this patch will arrive, or have Konami simply scrapped the idea? I know as of January 2009, trophies will be a mandatory part of Playstation 3 titles, so the next PES will have to feature them, but will they be involved this year? Anyone who knows anything, aside from the rumours, please feel free to get in touch via the usual means.
“A Little More Time, On You”
One thing that has been banded around slightly too much on these blog comments the last few weeks is the term hardcore gamer, or in particular, hardcore football gamer, if there is such a thing. Reading the views of individuals regarding their own personal take on online gaming following last week’s column has posed some pretty interesting questions, which no doubt will be addressed over the coming weeks and months but the bottom line that has come out of the whole online gaming debate is the huge shift in what is classified as a hardcore gamer nowadays.
Six years ago, the term casual gamer would have suited me, like many others, down to the ground. I would pick up the yearly instalments of PES, Fifa, Football Manager/Championship Manager and Smackdown Vs Raw, along with the latest Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy or Grand Theft Auto, and would be quite content playing those titles. I think the majority of gamers would have done the same, especially taking into account issues such as limited income and other financial constraints. For me, a hardcore gamer in that period would be the likes of those sat on first person shooters on their PC’s, locked away with their online gaming memberships, their headsets and their experience points. There was very little middle ground, with online gaming being seen as something that required a powerful PC and a shed load of time. If you only purchased a few games a year, and stuck to those exact titles, how can you be called a hardcore gamer, been definition of the word, you weren’t gaming in a hardcore fashion, simply playing the same set of games each year.
Of course the arrival of games like Guitar Hero, Sing star and then the Nintendo Wii completely changed the way gaming, and in particular casual gaming was perceived. Gone were the days of gaming being limited to simple hand eye co-ordination or lightening reflexes, as those who haven’t been brought up playing games began to find a whole new world. Instead of even touching a controller, you can play a game like Sing star or by holding something very similar to your TV remote, games like Wii sports. The casual gamer has become anyone, of any gaming ability, who play games on social occasions only, with mates, at parties, without a subscription fee or memory card in sight! On the other hand, seemingly hardcore elements of gaming have become much more widely seen as mainstream. Features such as online gaming and headsets have been brought onto our consoles with very little fuss, membership fees have been scrapped and features like experience points and unlockable items have been seemingly dumbed down to make them easier to understand. Gone are the days of the teenage gamer in his dark room playing Quake 3 online, here are the days of the 25 year old businesswoman popping innocent victims on Call Of Duty 4, or the couple who play World Of Warcraft together as a way of bonding, and spending quality time.
At this moment in time, Tom Clancy’s End war is available on the next generation consoles, and is known as the first game that can be played solely by voice alone, quite a daunting thought of the location in which gaming is heading, but proves the question, what nowadays makes a hardcore gamer? With a PS3 game collection of 40 titles, a respectable number of trophies, and a decent online reputation on games such as Warhawk and Little Big Planet, I would nowadays consider myself more than a casual gamer, but still not quite hardcore yet. I have a busy work and social schedule that means I can maybe dedicate 2 nights a week to gaming, 3 on a quiet week. I would therefore like to ask the question to the PESGaming.com community, do you see yourself as a hardcore gamer? How many hours a week, on average would you say you spend playing games? And out of that time, how many different titles would you say enter your console or PC? This is a topic that will no doubt run further, and I will address the term, ‘hardcore football gamer’ in due course. Comments and e-mails to the usual address!
“To Feel Something So Real”
As I mentioned at the very start of this column, I am not going to pass my own personal judgement on the list of features suggested by Double D to Konami. I think the majority of gamers, irrelevant of their views about the current title, would be happy to see at least a handful of those implemented in the next version, and very few would complain if any were. My point, however, address the claims to make certain features of the game ‘more realistic’. I would like to start this section with a brief story.
During the design and production of Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Infinity Ward (the games developers) spent time with real soldiers and military personnel, trying to capture as much realism in the title as possible. Everything from weapon weights and reload times were tested and transported into a gaming environment, and those who have played the full game would have to testify it is an exceptionally good interpretation of modern warfare, or as the media and news have depicted the current state of war. But certain features were changed, edited or even removed from the testing time prior to the games final release. The example that always sticks in my mind was the fact that hand grenades take 5 seconds from the point of pulling the pin to point of explosion. This feature was simple enough to implement on the game, but during testing, the developers changed the time down from 5 to 3 seconds, because in a gaming environment, 5 seconds is too long! Realism was easily obtainable, but developers made a conscious and informed decision still to change it, for the sake of the gaming experience.
The same issue was raised in the review of Fifa 09, regarding players taking an extra touch. In real life, a player like Rooney can go from one body position to the next almost seamlessly meaning he could have three touches then thread a perfect through ball. In a computer game, the issue of the pass becoming available on the screen, the gamer pressing the button on the controller and the action being played out on the pitch is one that takes a longer time period than in real life, and although it was a commendable attempt from EA Sports, eventually, the passes that were on when Rooney had his second touch were no longer available when he had the third. As gamers, the majority of us want a realistic gaming experience, and feel that an accurate, textbook translation of the real life version of the game would best provide this. A lot of the time, however, developmental and gaming companies need to take this creative license, as the real life alternative would just not work within a gaming environment. Realism within gaming is a tricky subject, and sometimes, making something ‘more realistic’ could be a negative action as opposed to a positive one, on a gaming front at least,
“Don’t Dream Its Over”
Final point for this week’s column, and one that is itching for people’s opinions. It’s a pretty straightforward question, so I will leave it as that. Should Konami leave the Playstation 2 behind and start concentrating solely on the next generation consoles? Would you prefer they concentrated solely on PS3 and 360, forgetting about PC and Wii versions too? Or are you a traditionalist, and believe there should be one footballing franchise (Pro Evolution Soccer) for Playstation and a different one (namely ISS 64) for X Box 360, both made by Konami?
That’s it for this week. Registration for the IWP league is still open; if you’ve already got in touch, expect an e-mail in your inbox just after Christmas. Registration will be open until Tuesday 16th December 2008, with a view to a second period opening in 2009. Thanks as always go to Dave O for the IWP logo, and feel free to comment either by hitting the comments button, or simply e-mailing on interferingwithplay@hotmail.co.uk. If you enjoyed this column, please take the time to check out www.thefootballforums.com for my other article, This Is Roberto Carlos Territory.
Thanks for Reading
first
If they left the PC version… i would simply die!
word!!!
Comment 3 is not the real me.
Can someone give me an alarm call at around the 98th post mark please? Not you McDermott,id probably fall straight back asleep.CHEERS!
I know a lot of people like myself (25 years old, working, girlfriend, …) that don’t buy consoles like PS3/XBOX because it doesn’t fit in the living environnement/home situation.
Yet I’ve been a PES fan since ages and since a sport game is socially exceptable with the “casual gamers” as you just described them, it is a great game to play when you come together to drink. Everyone owns a computers, everyone I know even meets the system requirments… Not everyone owns a console…
I would stop playing PES if I couldn’t play it with friends now and then. Especially with such a lousy online experience.
Cutting out PES from PC’s would be a bad move in my opinion. You cut out a group of people that have the money to spend on the game (working class) and could give on the PES-vibe to the casual gamers they play it with…
Good read as always Dan, Touched on an interesting point about PES as a multi-platform game, my personal opinion is that PES should be a PS3 and XBox title, for me the Wii is for little girls and sissys, not to cause any offence but after reading the stuff about what makes a hardcore gamer, the idead of someone locked in a room for hours dancing around and jumping up and down like a fairy absolutly knackered, just doesn’t fit any sort of stereotype of a hardcore gamer, gaming for me is kicking back and letting the game do all the work, its about using though to control the actions on screen, the Wii way is great if you are a fitness freak, not a gamer. As for PES I just think that people who are really into PES, will play it on XBox or PS3, the Wii for me just has a sort of fake ish aura about it as a gaming console, Its more get off your lazy ass and get active instead of really pinning down the true veneer of hardcore gaming. As for myself I would’t say yet that Im a hardcore gamer as such, Sure I play a lot, not exactly the widest selection of games though, if online elements are to really flourish and become integral to the gaming future then maybee a lot more, I will be hardcore for sure when Resident Evil 5 hits the shelves in March, by hardcore I mean blowing off Uni and work for a week, and sleeping for around an hour each night lol.
“Should Konami leave the Playstation 2 behind and start concentrating solely on the next generation consoles?” uhhhh!!!! what the hell is the point of this question? I think this posting is starting to get boring and stupid. If you don’t have anything else to add just don’t add. I know you want to keep a discussion going but no better ideas? It’s like saying I wonder how long it would take to count my pubic hair? ok let’s have a discussion about it!!!!WTF
oh wait what about his one: should Konami put focus on PES for Atari? or should it wait for you for advice!!?
The only good thing about reading the posts is Simon McNutsack. this guy is such a dooooch Baag!!
Please could you block “Moe Sizlack”’s IP Address from this website.
Thankyou, Simon McDermott.
Seriously??? Annoyed
the fact of the matter is that the PS2 should be dropped just like the Xbox has been dropped. If they keep on having to make a game for each system that requires two different game engines we are all going to suffer. At this point it’s either time to adopt or be left behind, and the people who have adopted shouldn’t be punished by the people who refuse to upgrade.
Xbox 360, PS3, PC, Wii. Those are the only consoles it should be produced for so we can get back to a quality game.
Lastly, please please please don’t get rid of the Wii version because I’ve never been happier with a soccer game because you control a team to the up-most level. And more importantly i can LITERALLY put the ball anywhere i want, no other game can reproduce that. If you think that the Wii is about getting in shape than you have had a very limited experience because i sit down for every game except for Wii Sports. Get over the phobia of “new”
Response to Mr Mark: Who said anything about a phobia of “new” Didn’t I say I was considering an identity as a hardcore gamer with “new” online gaming advancements, completely in contrast to any suggestion of a phobia, secondly I suggested that the Wii is “great if you are a fitness freak” not exclusive to fitness freaks, in the context of the console’s relation to a depiction of a hardcore gamer, The Wii doesn’t fit the bill, Thirdly I can put the ball anywhere I like on the PS3, (Except with SPL Teams lol) I’m not trying to dismiss the Wii on any other level than a personal one, If you like the Wii, Great, play the Wii, Im with you on the PS2 opinion though, I t already sucks fr the PS2 gamers (PES Wise) as no real noticeable advancements have been made since PES6, It really would be cold to release the same game again in 2010, I knew my “Wii is for little girls and sissys” quote would upset someone, but like I said, no offence, Its just a personal opinion.
Im 26 getting married next year and play my PS3 about 60 hours maybe more a week. Might be a hard core gamer. Konami are just spreading there bets release on all platforms for more money. If they just released on 3rd gen consoles. Would it make it a better game?
I’m 21, with a partner, work 8-5 Mon-Fri, play football Saturday. I own a PS3 (and yes they should mug off ps2) and I only have 3 games, PES 2008,PES2009 and GTAiv. I reckon I play approx 6-10 hours per week. Maybe add an hour to that for the odd random bash on Champ 03/04 on PC. So I’m nowhere near hardcore, in fact I think you’d struggle to call me a gamer! I’m only really about PES and I play it when I can if my girlfriend is at work, or before I got to football on a Saturday. I’m more about football itself than the console. I watch around 3 games a week, train once a week, play once a week. So added into my work and personal schedule, it doesnt leave me much time for PES. But I still love the game and I think if all the changes that were submitted were implemented, I probably wouldn’t like it! However it would be nice to see a bit of variation every now and then, but I don’t think we’re gonna see much change as someone said before, its really Japanese and will probably stay that way.
FLOWERS OF MANCHESTER
fdygtryu y6th dtr5
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go on dis site its got pes2009 vs ffa o9
http://www.youtube.com/peeesvvfiiawocshtm.com
Get rid of the PS2 version. And concentrate on the PS3 version. People like Simon Mc keep saying that “the PES 6 is the best thing ever” well if thats the case then they can continue playing that version and let the developers concentrate on the PS3 version.
I understand fully that some people cannot afford a PS3 or simply chose not to get one at present. And before anyone starts to shoot me down, i could not afford a PS3 and had to wait for Mrs to buy it.
Admit it, PC’s graphics capabilities are much better than 360 and PS3… so why not make one especially for next-gen consoles (360 & PS3) and one especially for PC… now PC can be an edited version of the consoles (as always) but make it use the PC capabilities. I mean FIFA did and so did GTV IV… i mean GTA IV’s PC version came out a few months late but its graphics are to die for!!!!
I`m 24, single, under graduate medicine student. I play pes and I think its decent game You really have to implement tactics whilst playing and when you so (finally) score a goal, the elation is deeply satisfying However i do feel more variation had to be given to the modes. For example, in become a legend mode ive scored hattricks and stuff but still theres not much recognition. Here in oxford we try to play events but the game gets repetetive with sleezy tactics such as running along the touch line and evitably giving a throw in. OR taking on the rest of the team before making the keeper look like a fool… Finally i really like some of the little details, like the players flicking the ball into their hands at the end of the game or like players pulling shirts. BUT i would like to see much more in an area which we are in front of in Fifa, the liitle details.
To my mind, they should drop the PS2 and Wii Versions, and concentrate on the PS3/360 as well as PC, because those platforms offer the most power. And if they only have 3 platforms left to develop for, they can concentrate much more on issues concerning the particular architecture and improve the game in many ways.
The PS2 is nearly ten years old, it is time to take a step into the next generation of gaming and game development.
Since I dropped Microsoft WIndows and switched to Mac OS, I do not have any PC anymore. But I still want to play games and so I have a PS3 AND a girlfriend and it fits together in a perfect way ;-)
It even fits into my flat’s envrionment, as I designed the flat around the PS3 and the according LCD TV ;-)
Greez from Germany
chaos
when the review of both pes 2009 fifa 09 coming???
my girlfriend is jealous of my ps3, lol. she said i pay it more attention than i do her, not true. i try to play it everyday but it never goes to plan. for example i’m always working, and anydays i have off are always spent with my girl. i play football on saturdays, and train twice a week after work. most of the time i’m too tired to play games after work, and prefer to watch a film or tv to relax. this is because i play games with a serious attitude, i try to win all the time and give my all in games. so this means i don’t really relax when i’m playin and get fraustrated and annoyed if things don’t go my way. i say i get in about 10 hours ofgaming a week, though i would say sunday makes up over half my gaming hours. the rest of the days are like half an hour here or there, because i’m seeing friends or with my girl e.t.c. i don’t batter pes like i used to mainly cause, i think pes2009 is ****. an online the quick fix gaming option mode is too laggy at times. i play cod5 alot, but i still ain’t touched it’s offline mode, coz i ain’t got the time at the moment. i’m casual gamer in the sense of amount of hours put in. but i’m a harcore gamer in the sense of my competitive spirit.
ps2 should be made obsolete now, pes should only be made for next gen and pc. i understand not everyone can afford a ps3, because some of my friends have that problem. at the sametimes things have to move on. but the truth is there is still a market with the ps2.
I thought I was the only one waiting for this mythical trophy patch. I was quite hopeful it was gonna come in the 1.20… how foolish of me. I’ve been putting off really playing the game for this reason, I’d like some closure one way or another.
I’ve got an Xbox 360 with 7 games but at min I’m only really playing PES 2009 and GTA 4.
The amount of time I spend on gaming changes according to how busy I am but I’d say I play on average about 6 hours a week. Usually a couple of nights for about 1 and a half hours and about 3 hours on a Sunday.
@@Griffo
I forgot to mention, that I wait for the trophy support as well. It’s a shame that they still did not patch it. It is so easy, foremost, they already have embedded awards for some things. So it is REALLY easy to implement trophies now, e.g. NaughtyDog added the support to Uncharted and they confirmed, that it was easily obtainable :-)
Konami, BRING US TROPHIES :-D
Comment 8 was not me.
Im 26, who stays with a long term girlfriend, work 8.00-5.30 from monday to friday, plus the odd saturday morning shift aswell as football training twice a week & a game on the saturday. I probably get in about 10-15 hours a week & i mostly just play PES master league or mates online, i dont have many games for my PS3, just both PES 2008 & 2009 (will get rid of 2008 soon though), GTA4, MGS4 & COD4 (hmmm i see a pattern there lol).
As i have a lot of outgoings from the money both me & the other half make i cant really afford getting loads of games & i usually rely on xmas or birthdays to fund these so i would consider myself just a casual gamer.
We have a Wii aswell & i dont really play it that much but comes into it’s own when you have friends round & get everyone playing Wii sports or something, i dont buy serious games for that as i didnt get it for the purpose of playing serious computer games.
I think the PS2 version should be dropped as it is pretty much a dead technology now & i think PS2 users have had a good run of nearly 10 years, the PS1 had a similar length of running so i think it’s time for Konami to concentrate on the next gen consoles & PC, it will reflect this decision by producing better games as the PS2 version must surely be holding the franchise back.
As for the trophies im disappointed that PES do not yet support them & hopefully an update will come out soon which will rectify this.
i work 6-3 mon 2 fri, and always get an hour in b4 she gets home after work, anything after that is a bonus. So id say a part-time casual gamer. I have a 360 (couldnt stretch as far as a ps3) and i must say the achievements are a good incentive to get the most out of games, its good something similar is coming to ps3.
The reason the PS2 version is still around is that it is based on the J-League versions, which are used to test out new game modes, and are also very lucrative in Japan. Remember, this is a Japanese game, so they are big J-League fans, and this version was also a replacement of the “Final Evolution” versions they used to make. Until the J-League (i.e. Final Evolution) editions start appearing on the next gen consoles, there will continue to be PS2 versions in Japan – and they are easily converted and translated to the European version, so why not if there are sales to be had? I don’t think it takes a lot away from their dev team, and in fact having 2 relases per year has its plus side. Anyway, this will probably end in 2010, so I think it’s pretty much a mute point, except to say that I think it’s important for them to continue to have 2 releases per year, because the J-League version is where they tend to try out new ideas, modes, etc to see how they will work on the next full release. Without this we may never have had BAL, or numerous other features.
I probably play my PS2 or PS3 about 10 hours a week tops, so would not call myself a hardcore gamer, in the past it was alot more, probably around 20 hours, but due to work commitments I don’t normally have the time.
I do consider myself a hardcore Pes fan though, which is the game I used to play the most, though due to recent poor releases, I play it alot less than I used too.
With regards to the whether or not Konami should drop Pes for the PS2,Wii, ect, I think as long as their is a demand and they can still feasibly allocate development time to them, then why not!. If however this detracts from the PS3 and 360 games, then Konami should stop producing games for these other machines, and concentrate on making one very good game for the PS3 and 360.
The definition of casual gamers, hardcore gamers, and professional gamers has changed alot in recent years, with some people now taking it up as a profession, which still amazes me that some people get paid for playing games and even swan around like they are sports stars, just for being good at Dead or Alive, or Fifa 09 ect. If you have ever watched the ultimate gaming series or Pulse TV, it is kind of sad watching kids strutting out onto stage like wrestling stars, with a bad ass look on their face just because they are good at a computer game. What will be next gaming at the Olympics?.
I like your self normally buy the same titles every year with Pes, Final Fantasy and Resident Evil always being must have games. There are always other great games that come along like Far Cry2, Fall out3 and Call of duty5 that have appealed to me recently, especially Fall out3 because of the great story line.
On the subject of trophies, I’m not really bothered about them, I play a game because I enjoy it. I can see the point in them as they give you a sense of achievement, but I’m not fussed either way.
hahaha
First off the person that keeps imitating Simon should stop because you have become purely a annoyance on the board.
steev, i was probably using the wrong tone as I wrote my last response. No offense to you, as I see where your opinion is coming from, and understand it completely.
As for being a hardcore gamer or casual game, I’d say I was a casual gamer until PES came out, now I probably play 3 hours a night. I gotta get in the time becuase my other half is moving in at the end of the month and there goes the video games on a regular basis.
Trying to improve my BAL so I can successfully play with him online, and I have found that will take loads of time.
Post 17…you`ll make a great Oxford-trained doctor one day
ok i have ps3 and it wont ask me if i want to download version 1.20 update im still on the 1.10 any tips. i noe i shouldent be askin in here but i need a hand???
Most likely you have an american version, and we don’t have the 1.2 update yet
im so sorry guys to bring up this really stupid question but hey i cant get the mp3 music into the game i have almost like 600 songs in the ps3 and of course i only added like 10 or 15 in the KONAMI_PES
and its not working at all
so can u guys please tell me how to make it work… please….
I’m 34, work from 8 morning ’till everything between 5 and 10 in the evening, live with my girlfriend and we have a daughter who turns 1 year today! ;oD
So that first sentence there writes me off as a hardcore gamer straight away – but before living together, long working hours and babies, I was what I would define a hardcore gamer.
Now I usually play a very few hours a week – and most week I don’t even play anymore.
I’ve found great pleasure in the Xbox LIVE Arcade games lately – since there are many good small games that let pick them up and play straight away, without having to commit to much into it.
As for PES – I’ve owend every PES title for first PS1, PS2 and now Xbox360. I haven’t bought PES 09 – but I have a few goes at the demo a couple of times almost every week.
I own a good deal of games – but usually only buy the blockbusters and yearly returns, such as PES.
Next game on the list is Gears of War 2 – because I can play the campaign co-up with one of my good friends online every now and then, when we have the time for it.
It will be in one year from now, but imagine not having ps3 yet. And in november they dont give out a ps2 version of pes2010! That would be tragic. I would be missing something I love for the first time in 11 years!!!
I think generally, in terms of elation, PES 2009 is good. Especially the Become a legend mode. However I always get sudstituted 3/4 into second half. What all that about…
Comment 38 is not me.
PES 2008 for the Wii is my favorite video soccer game of all time. Yes, the leagues and management are weak or non existent. Features are slim. Number of stadiums is unsatisfying. To me, it’s all about the new control scheme, it’s fantastic. I’m a big fan of the team game rather than individual performance, and the Wii version’s controls are focused on tactics. I am totally willing to give up detailed ball handling in exchange for being able to control all the players on the field. I am absolutely looking forward to PES 2009 for the Wii and I hope it succeeds well enough to keep the idea going.