Interfering With Play – Tuesday 19th January 2010
Posted by Dan Bolas in Interfering With Play on Tue 19 Jan
Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. Another busy week in the PESGaming.com planning stage, with a handful of new ideas and features coming out of the recent meeting between myself and Double D. This week sees the start of our look to the future of PES, by actually going back in time. The first point of this week’s Interfering With Play will address this. I am also going to look at a couple of the issues that have been once again raised by you guys in the comments section. A quick thank you must go out to the couple of people that have already got in touch with me regarding their own personal ‘Master League Magic’, the next instalment of which is just a couple of days away. For more information on this new feature, scroll down past PES Matters and check it out. With that said, lets move on with this week’s Interfering With Play.
“Where Have You Been?”
As promised, here lies the start of the future. Over the next few months, the PESGaming team are going to gaining ideas and asking for the views of the community to be passed on to Konami, regarding PES 2011. Whilst PES 2010 has only been out just over three months, we believe that by getting our points out there early, we can genuinely affect the development stage of the future PES. Personally, I have been burned by Konami in the past, but having actually spoken to them first hand, I have renewed faith in that we, as a group can actually make a difference, and furthermore, I look at some implementations in previous versions that were exactly what was requested. Things such as genuine music play lists, the ability to import multiple chants per team, expanded editing capabilities and downloadable boot packs are all things that were discussed on this site 18 months ago, and whilst they may fall into the coincidence category, the power of community should not be underestimated.
This year, however, I have decided to go with no letter or formal request statement, but instead put together a list based on a number of events that we will hold, to determine priority features as well as new additions. This will allow us to get a feel for not only what the majority of the community want to see, but perhaps as importantly which features are only desired by a handful of people, and would not be seen as a big issue in the overall picture, especially by a company such as Konami.
So where to start? The obvious grumbles about online modes, enhanced controls and animations will definitely come, but to start off, I want to take a trip back down the line. As mentioned before, people all have their favourite PES, and in some cases these even go back to the days when ISS was still tagged on the front. In all of these game modes, there were features, some big and some small, that have seemingly vanished from the modern version of the game. This can be something as simple as the fact shirt pulling has been removed from PES 2010, after being present in the 2009 version, to something greater, like the PES Shop or Penalty Shoot Out mode, both firm favourites from PES gone by. Instead of me carrying on and firing off a 20 or 30 strong list, I open the floor to the PESGaming.com community, and ask what features you want to see from previous PES gamers in the next and future instalments.
Originally, I was going to try and limit this point to simply the older PS2 versions of the game, but I think it is important we look back at the ISS franchise on the N64 too. These games had some very enjoyable ideas ranging from Scenario mode to Story mode, and whilst they lacked club teams and were produced by a different developer under Konami’s wing, they were still top football titles produced under the Japanese company.
So the topic is open for debate. I am looking for features that do not feature on the next generation version of PES 2010 (PS3, 360 and PC versions) that you would like to see, which have been removed from previous instalments of the game. You can get in touch via e-mail, which is included below, or comment on the article in the usual way. The best and most popular suggestions will be discussed further in next week’s IWP.
“She Loves Me Snot”
Bit more of a trivial topic, but one that I find exceptionally interesting. Over previous versions of PES, I have always found myself to have bogey team, a side that always seems to get a result against me when being controlled by the AI. Back in the olden days, this used to be Cameroon, and then throughout the PS2 years, Fiorentina did me over more times that not. In fact, I would go onto to say that when Nuno Gomes played for Fiorentina, I would be guaranteed a tough time, and usually end up being eliminated in a cup competition by his head or right boot. At the moment on PES 2010, I haven’t found my bogey team, and the past couple of years, there hasn’t been one side that have stood out to cause me problems.
So I ask, is there a side out there that cause you constant problems on PES 2010? Of course, I would rather they not be a Real Madrid or Barcelona, I have enough of playing against them online, but a side from either Other Teams A or a less fashionable side from one of the leagues that always seem to give you a heck of a battle. I expect that certain players struggle against different sides, but just to get a feel if there are one or two notoriously tricky matches available if I am ever in the mood for a quick challenge. Get in touch in the usual way.
“League Time”
Just a quick one regarding the IWP League, the planning is pretty much over now. In the next 2 weeks, you will receive an e-mail with someone else’s PSN id on. You need to add this person and play a match against them online. The rules to the match will be included in the e-mail. At the end of the match, both parties will need to include the match score, and answer a couple of questions about their opponent’s ability and connection status. This will allow me to better judge the quality of the league as well as pick up the better connections. It will also let me judge which gamers can follow the rules correctly and deal with e-mail correspondence. At the current time, the league looks to start in April and run for 2 months. If you are unable to take part in the league for any reason, please respond to the upcoming e-mail so an alternative arrangement can be made for your opponent. If you have any questions regarding the IWP League, please feel free to e-mail me on the usual address, as I do not respond to comments discussing the league.
“Never Gonna Get It Right”
I had to smile at some of the comments from last week. People going absolutely off their rocker that I failed to mention the crashing issue. The same crashing issue that has had nearly a thousand words dedicated to it in the previous three Interfering With Play columns. The same crashing issue that I have been dealing with e-mails about for the past month. I can only assume that these people do not read IWP on a regular basis, and therefore I will give you an update on the situation.
For the past few weeks, I have left the door open to people to get in touch if they experience PES 2010 crashing during the tunnel sequence. When the camera pans down the starting line up, the game freezes and a hard rest is required to sort it out. The issue only occurs on the PS3 version of the game, and in my experience only occurs at certain stadiums. The simple way to avoid the crash all together is to press the start button straight away, skipping the tunnel sequence and pre-match screen, something which insures you will not have a crash occur during a Master League match or online game.
However, this is 2010, and this is obviously not acceptable that a game periodically crashes. I for one enjoy watching the tunnel scene, as it provides a build up to larger games. Therefore, I asked people to get in touch if they experienced it, of which there was a huge number, in fact I would go to say that most people who regularly communicate with me either via messenger or e-mail said they have had it occur to them. I have since been given a number of different suggestions as how to stop this happening. Some claim a custom play list causes the crashing, other claim using an edited option file. Some even say that playing with your PS3 disconnected from the Internet will solve the problem. All of these are false, as I have experienced the crash despite following these rules. An e-mail has been sent to Konami this week informing them of the problem, and its unknown causes, which is where our part in the journey ends. If Konami address this issue with a patch in the future, it is both proof the system works and that Konami take this site seriously. Any other response will no doubt draw negative criticism towards the company, which may I say is fully justified.
I would finally like to point out that we are the only PES site (to my knowledge) that have addressed the crash on their home page in any way shape or form, at that any relationship we currently have or will have in the future will no way affect my own personal honesty towards PES or surrounding issues. The day that PESGaming is being constantly edited by Konami is the day that IWP is finished, of that I assure you.
“Look At The Stars”
Pretty cheesy tag line, but my final point this week simply asks the question that will hopefully lead into next week’s column, how many yellow cards on average do u receive a match. If this is easier to work out by simply going to your stats page and checking your games played and yellow cards received, that’s fine and I will do the math. The more people who get in touch with this number, the better, as it will hopefully lead to helping make the referring more accurate in future PES games.
That’s your lot for this week. A great deal to mull over there, and a heck of a lot for you guys to get involved about. Please let me know your favourite features from old versions of PES that you would like to see returned, and furthermore if anyone has a sure fire way to beat the crash! interferingwithplay@hotmail.co.uk is the place to direct any messages straight to me, and whilst I do read the comments, I obviously have no way of responding directly to them.
Thanks for Reading
1st
Hi Dan!
I had a question: Maybe I’ve missed it (sorry if that’s the case), but I haven’t seen your reviews of PES & FIFA.
I thought you would do them like you did last year.
Are you still working on this? As I have the feeling you might realize you’d have to give FIFA the higher mark this year and running a PES site might give you the feeling it’s a bit awkward putting that black on white on the site.
Maybe I am totally wrong, would just like to hear why we haven’t seen reviews.
I funnily enough have played more FIFA lately. After being fed up with it after 2 weeks, I happily started PES2010, but got SO disappointed with the easy AI, the on the rails play and similar goals (long range, headers from crosses) that with pain in my heart I tried FIFA again.
And I do like it more than PES I found out. It took very long, but I began to appreciate it.
Still, I feel that there is NO good footy game anymore, I just choose the best of 2 average titels…
FIFA might be better, but the lack of ‘feeling’ when shooting, the amount of 1 on 1s and the RIDICULOUS manager mode make me feel both games don’t deserve a mark higher than 7.
btw: the person(s) who is responsible for manager mode should be exiled to Elba. WHAT A DISGRACE!! 71 bugs (HUGE ones) and counting take ALL the pleasure away, it is really unplayable.
Thumbs up to Konami for creating an almost bug free Master League. Just a shame that in other departments they are as lazy or even lazier and not caring as FIFA was with manager mode….
One of the features that has gone missing since PES 6 is the ‘on-field team training’ option in Master League. Even tho it might not b a big deal to many, yet to me, it really added an element of realism to the whole game. It would be awesome if its revived in future versions.
A few more features that have gone missing in ML:
1. Total goals scored by individual players in their career.
2. Player Rankings
I’m sure there are more but i cant seem to remember right now.
The main thing i miss are the training challenge that were in pes4 i think.
@ magica
i had the same feelings about fifa but please try this :play fifa manual settings , its the best game of football ever
as for Konami make a copypaste of fifa manual settings , fix the chipped shot , mix it with pes 2010 graphics and you have the game of the century
i agree, i also would like the pes shop to come back. for some reason, i miss the little rainbow trail you could put on the ball during replays.
maybe bring back that training challenge or whatever it was called. that was a good way to get introduced to the game, and win points for the pes shop.
bring back choosing the refs. certain refs were better than others.
return my vertical cam back to that of a few years ago. it’s been ruined. i cant ask for this enough.
get rid of regional restrictions. i want to play against brits (i’m in the u.s.). i cant ask for this enough also.
give us more dlc. “it couldn’t fit on the disk, so we had to leave it out” isn’t a viable excuse anymore.
fix the online (ha ha ha ha).
The features I miss the most are: random match select mode when u choose four teams and players are randomly chosen; shirt pulling; and the advantage rule… PLEASE BRING THESE BACK KONAMI
Bring Back
- Stadium Attendance
- Customized Nets
- Camera Tilting
- Better Pk’s!
- Classic Uniforms: And/or differnt type of shorts and t-shirts, not only diff colours.
- La bombonera, Sapporo Dome, Estadio Delle Alpi (WITH CUSTOMIZED NETS PLEASE!) and THE CLUBHOUSE!
Would Like To See
- Better Pk’s
- The 7 v 7 idea ain’t so bad!
- I would like the option to throw a farewell ceremony for your retiring players in the ML. You could choose how much to spend on it, wether to make it a small one or in front of a packed stadium! Just a little animation like when you win the cup.
- Retro Camera and Retro Stadiums! This would be perfect for classic matches, playing in them old stadiums with a retro filter for the camera. With slightly damaged pitches and ugly nets. Like that of Mexico 70 or England 66. Or…
- Classic Match Option: I’d like to play the game of the century, or Argentina V England in Mexico 86. To live again those classic matches in the very same stadium which they took place would be nice.
bring back scenarios they would add something different and would be great
for trophies/achievements and unlocking classic/hidden players as winning
the leagues is just to boring
for example your man u trailing bayern munich 1-0 five minutes to go and you
have a corner win the game and unlock sheringham and solskjaer
Here we go again….
Every year all of us here are hopeful and optimistic about the next series of PES. Konami then feeds us the bull about sending in comments and they will listen to feedback. How stupid can we be to listen to this crap again.
I have wasted countless posts on what I think would be good for the game ….and basically that is a working online. Thus far I am convinced that Seabass and PES are done for now. They do not listen to a single thing being posted anywhere. They just do what they please. Removing good stuff and not fixing crap. They polished the turd really well this year though….i must say the game “looks” good.
I will not waste anymore time with this crap of a game Seabass is feeding us. They have fooled me enough.
wow where to start. first i hope all of these comments are taken under consideration by konami people. they need to work on this game more than ever now. we are in 2010 and the games keep getting worse. i tried playing pes but am now playing fifa because the gameplay is much better. it used to be the other way around but sadly its not anymore. keepers dive unrealistically. when crossing, the headers are always struck with unbelievable force, always high. you can never place. chip shot is the worst. the unnaccuracy of even the good players is incredibly bad. horrible. i can chip better and am not a pro. i expect these players to move about the field with finesse and kick, pass the ball like actual pros. you cannot do faints like in past pes games. the players response is slow, and the cuts are frustrating, giving the defender enough time to take the ball away from you. AND it is almost impossible to steal the ball from cpu opponents. frustrating. made me stop playing. also when you have possesion of the ball (without passing)you cannot send the closest player to you to make a run like in fifa. i can write a whole book about the problems this game has.. please konami consult with actual soccer players, pros, test these games with people who know about the sport.
Fix gameplay,animations,keepers,referes,online(speed,lag,button delay)!!!!!The rest are details.
Dan Bolas… Finally, someone with common sense and an opinion worth listening to…
Thanks for your efforts regarding the game crashing… I wait with baited breath to hear Konamis response…
Once again, thank you sir…
Buster G
@ Post 8
Cant remember there been an attendence or custom nets option in previous PES? maybe im wrong but have not noticed this myself.
Definately bring back:
* Training mini games
* Camera tilt
* PES shop
* All PS2 stadiums
And for Konami to consider:
* Off the ball player run button as FIFA
ISS Deluxe – Dog referee and linesman cheat
ISS 64 – Big head cheat
I would liek the animal heads to be brought back as seen on pes 4
At 16 Adam
You must work at Konami as you defo seem to know what we all been crying out for lol I think there should also be unlockable UGG boots for each player!!
I would like the following :-
*I agree with Adam, animal heads should be implemented
*Scorpion Kick should also be a feature
*German players to have real names
*Chef to be on the front cover of the next game
*Pens to be a little easier
*I would like the main title song to be My My My by Armand Van Helden
just fix the PES 2010’s bugs and release as PES 2011. at the mean time work for two years in a brand new game engine and release PES 2012.
@ 19 freak08
Agree Konami should work for 2 years on a new engine and forget about releasing a new game this year, instead releasing a good FREE patch to fix all the bugs on PES 2010 so we dont all get fleeced again on another revamped game.
Bring back penaltys, call me old fashioned but when l get tripped in the box if possible l would like a penalty like in all other footy games
Dan,
I’ve said in a previous post but honestly for me playing while not signed in to the playstation network I have not crashed once since I’ve thought this was the cause.
In fact the way I discovered it was I was round a mates house playing PES and I checked his trophies (I signed him in first) then we went into a match and it froze on the tunnel scene and he was like “WHAT?! It never freezes” which made me click because I’ve always signed in automatically and mine has quite often froze but as I say it hasn’t froze once since I’ve not signed in when playing PES offline.
Now, I would urge readers and you to try it and see what the results are. I’m sorry if it doesn’t work for you but it has for me so it could be different PS3’s? But my friends got a 40GB while I’ve got the slimline.
I would think if I am correct and the results show no/very few crashes then it’d probably be because of the advertising that changes every so often causing this problem. And while I’m in complete agreement with everyone that it needs to be fixed ASAP maybe we could help speed it up if we pin-pointed it.
Thanks
While its easy to get retrospective and see the past with rose tinted glasses the ISS series on the n64 and the even better japanese counterpart perfect striker 64 are still the shining jules on konamis cv that to this day have still not been bettered in many areas especially on the pitch.
Before i start my list of musts for pes2011 and ideas from ISS/perfect striker let me just give the un-informed a lttle history lesson on this opus series by the legendary MAJOR A developement team that back in the mid to late ninties on the n64,ps1 and finally with the definative perfect striker 3 on the ps2 createted some of the most realistic football games that to this day still outshine the pes series.
Most people will remember ISS 64 one of the first games to feature true 360 degree movement and animation that motion captured all the players movements as well as the ball and goal nets as well as offering a freeform 360 degree passing and shooting system that allowed you to shoot,pass and cross in any direction of your choosing with pressure sensitive buttons and the ability to add back and side spin to the ball allowing you to place the ball on a sixpence.While both iss64 and its sequel iss98 had a through ball that always seemed to bypass your defence and find your forward iss2000 and the sublime perfect striker 1999 on the n64 eliminated this making placement and timing key.What for me to this day makes these games superior to pes is the un-paralled levels of player control these games offered as well as a deep and intuitive trick system that was beautifally implemented and included juggling,rainbow flicks and many of the tricks we now see in fifa10 today.Couple all this with ai that has still not been bettered and you have a series that is just crying out to be brought back to life on a modern games console.While by todays standards the n64 versions of this series look rather dated graphically with a ball that stuck to the players more perfect striker3 on the ps2 available on japanese import and playable via a japanese ps3 or ps2 still to this day makes any pes game seem very restrictive and one dimensional as perfect striker3 made the ball more of a free entity and just screamed player individuality with teamate ai that made your teamates always provide you with a passing option and runs into space that are very akin to the real game as well as clever hole filling and lots of support in the box although it was all the variations on this that gave this series unlimited scope with a friend and moments for me that have not been bettered since by any of konamis football games.
Ea with fifa10 have replicated almost all of iss/perfect strikers facets in fifa10 ie the animation,freeform play,tricks but it still lacks that feel that konamis games have as well as konamis skill of capturing player likenesses and the high standards of attention to detail in replays but other then this there is not a huge difference between iss/perfect striker and fifa10.
Pes has had its day and fifa10 has demonstrated like iss did that this genre has legs and acres of protential and its just a case of konami going back to there vaults and taking something old and bringing into the twenty first century because in iss/perfect striker konami had something that was as good if not slightly better then fifa10 and this is why.
-True 360 movement
-360 degree passing,shooting,crossing that was manual but efined to perfection.
-Clever teamate ai that could see danger and react to what was happening around them always able to know when to break or react to attacking play as well the ability to get in the right position and hold a good defencive line.
-Seamless animation that was technical but also beatifall on the eye.
-Deep intuitve trick system that was logical and seamless.
-Pressure sensitive buttons and the abiltiy to hit a pass,throughpass,long pass to who you wanted on a sixpence
-Manual elbowing,pushing
-Technical workable headering system that is superior to fifa10 and allowed you to pass the ball around with just your teams heads.
-The ability as shooting was manual to use the shot button for crossing and the long ball with more power.
-The best one two system ever devised that allowed you to delay and control the runner.
-Unlimted angles.
-Goalkeepers that could kick and throw the ball in the direction you pointed the analog stick.
-The best free kick and set piece system that allowed you have complete control that has still not been bettered since by ea or konami and just worked and was a joy as you could add spin after the ball was struck for placement.
Konami dont need to think up new ideas they just have to allow the user to have more control over the game and give the hardcore user depth of control,its not a case of re-inventing the wheel its just a case of giving the player more layers of control with animation to boot and ai that behaves in a believable way its been done before and can be done again with the power of todays consoles its just about konami realising they had something special before pes and giving it a next gen lick of paint.
Dan
I want to echo what was said in post #22.
I used to crash a lot with my PS3 connected to the Internet (even when pressing start button straight away), but since disconnecting I have not had one crash in over a season of master league.
My PS3 is also a new slim one if that makes any difference.
I would like to see the return of the advantage rule, PK camera angle…and most importantly the costumes from PES 6 (yes, I’m talking about the ostrich, raptor and best of all the penguin ). :)
If PES ends up playing like FIFA10 I definately wont be buying it. Am I the only person who finds FIFA gameplay dull and sluggish with no real feel to it. Whenever I come on this site and read the homepage all I see is comments bigging FIFA10 up and people saying how much freedom there is in the gameplay, I mean cmon, you cant even run shoulder to shoulder with an opposition player without losing the ball 9 times out of 10 and the passing and shooting have no feel at all. Despite its flaws PES2010 still plays the better game of football. It doesnt need a new engine like some say it simply needs a bit more polish.
could the freezing issue be related to the advertising boards loading up different adverts. I think this may be the problem if it doesnt seem to do it offline.
23
I forgot to add ISS/PERFECT STRIKER also allowed you to hit balls into space or long balls behind the opposition backline for hungry forwards and the clever ai to read and run onto,fifa10 does this and does this well and this would be a great addition to pes2011.
Although pes2010 is a dream to look at playing fif10 for months and going back to pes2010 there is now a massive golf between the gameplay of the two with pes2010 felling more restrictive and basic then it ever has while ea have shown that theres so much unknown ground and freedom to be exhibited in the football genre.While many will bemoan that fifa10 has no feeling in the shooting i disagree as its all about control of the shoot button and placement in the semi-assisted or manual setting when pes2010 the shooting is dictated by the user and the choice of the cpu.
25 Anonymous
Nonsense fifa10 has more feel and control then pes now,pes has turned into a automated arcade game while fifa10 plays like real football now,when you understand and get into fifa10 your presented with so much choice and variation in your play and the manual settings take fifa10 into another strattersphere.
Recommendation for Konami for 2011 – Listen to the fans, but be very careful when considering fan input. I have more faith in Konami than most, so my biggest fear is that listening to the fans will lead to more harm than good. Similarly, be careful with how you implement these suggestions. The problem is that most people are not constructive in their complaints about the game, so they will say “remove the barriers for thow ins” but they don’t seem to think about how that will effect the game, and in my opinion this has made throw ins less realistic. If it can’t be pulled off well, save the change until it can be properly implemented, or give us options.
Bring it back – If I could implement something from a previous version it would be some of the elements from newer PS2 versions, J League especially. For example, the customizable backgrounds to unlock, the player of the week awards, and the little blurbs in the ratings which say a thing or two about how certain players performed (e.g. “unlocked the defense with a timely pass to set up the winning goal.”
Bogey team – In my ML (2014) it’s got to be Real Madrid, because they have caused me serious problems in the Champs League. In the league though it’s got to be Liverpool. They’re roster includes: Torres, C.Ronaldo, Aguero, Buffon, Puyol, Gerrard, Anderson, etc, etc…
In the past my bogey player has always seemed to be Djibril Cisse for some reason…?
‘manual settings take fifa10 into another strattersphere’.
you make me laugh.
Anonymous 30
what about the way you can have full control of passing,long passing and shooting in fifa10 and the way your teamates move and read the play while in pes2010 everythings assisted and your just forced down the wings to hit the same automated centred ball and you have zero control of dribbling.Also the way you can dictate the tempo in fifa10 and if you want to play a long ball game you can when pes2010 just offers limited ping pong passing on the ground.The ball in pes just goes in flat strait lines and theres no variation in the play plus the shooting is assisted so naturally has better feel as it always centres towards goal you have no direct control over it.
Fifa10s scores and the fact that so many pes fans have switched speak for itself because even if you take away the animation you can still do things with the ball that are impossible in pes2010 ie the way you can spot a cross and place it yourself or the way you have direct control of the long pass or lobbed pass in the manual setting.Pes is simple and because everythings assisted it deosnt take much skill or timing to play well and is so limiting in options on the pitch,yes,the shooting satisfying in pes2010 like a arcade game but only because its scripted and contrived theres no skill or touch involved.
We all want konami to produce a game as good or better then fifa but recyling a automated ps2 game when the hardcore want something with more control and depth on the pitch is not the way forward nor is simplifying pes as even pes6 now against fifa10 is very old hat.
Anonymous 30
Can konami turn pes around in one year NO!!!!and people believing otherwise your in for a shock again this year and more heartache as its going to take a least three years to get pes anyway near the point that fifa10 is.Are konamis pockets and resources deep enough to finance the cost of a animation and engine overhaul,agian the answer is NO!!!.When you spend millions on building new developement headquarters and acquiring champions league licences and paying messi and torres to endorse your game theres not a lot left to spend on your game.Its like the old saying you have to spend money to make money.
I agree with dopecoil , manual settings in FIFA 2010 makes it the best video game ever , it take the game to another dimension of gaming : its the utlimate football experience.
As i said before, if konami copy paste FIFA10 manual settings and mix it with PES 2010 graphics , it would be a REVOLUTION you will talk about for decades mate
Dopecoil
I play Master League when playing PES, so, a career type mode is all important for me. Can you tell me if FIFA’s Manager Mode is working yet?
You see, I am interested in trying FIFA10 (you make it sound so good), but, if there is no working career type mode, it is a completely pointless experience for me.
Given that I can now pick it up for around £18.00, I am tempted, but, does Manager Mode work?
Dan
Nigeria was always my bogey international team, Newcastle my bogey league team. I don’t have a bogey team, so far, in PES2010, I just haven’t played it enough this time around.
As far as ideas for future instalments and bringing back omissions from the past, I, frankly, can’t be arsed and many people, including yourself over the years, have pretty much said it all.
Unfortunately, PES no longer holds much sway with me any more, I seem to get bored with it sooner and sooner year after year.
Sad, but, true.
if FIFA is the ultimate football experience then why do you continue to come to this site and talk about PES, surely you must be more than satisfied with FIFA.
34 soxnsandels
I havent played manager mode in fifa10 as i have mostly been playing against friends and the cpu in the league and tournament modes as well as spending months in the practise arena honing my skills and therefore have had nothing but good experiences with fifa10.From what i have read and heard theres problems in manager mode with bugs but these may well have been addressed but this mode for me holds no interest.
For 18 pounds you cant go wrong and on the pitch with practise fifa10 is class and offers a freedom and depth of control that pes productions could only dream of so is well worth the money.If you understand the deeper facets of football and want more then just a arcadie ping pong on rails automated game and have some skill and want a real challenge fifa10 is the one in the world class setting.Start off in assisted and as you get the feel of the game switch the settings to semi-assisted and then manual as you get better and want more control and choice.
Warning if you stick with pes2010 then your be happy but playing fifa10 for to long will render pes redundant.
For me and my mates the number 1 thing they need to bring back from the PS2 versions is the option of another player being able to move the joypad to play as the opposition CPU team when you are playing offline tournaments with some mates. It’s such a simple thing that they’ve removed, but it spoils the game for us. Not all of us play PES at home alone or online, we want to be able to simply play as our mates opposition team when he is playing against a CPU team in offline tournaments and leagues we play together. The removal of this option has killed the multiplayer option for those of us who want to play PES like this.I know from posting about this over the last year and a half that those of us who played PES like this are in the minority, but for us it’s a major major problem that it’s no longer possible. It’s still possible on the PS2 version, and also in FIFA 10 (boo). Why oh why have they disabled it on current gen consoles :(
Dopecoil, I think you nailed down the difference between PES 2010 and Fifa 10 when you explained that you have no interest in manager mode.
I say that because I’m obiously looking for the opposite sort of experience than you are. For me, what I’m loving about PES 2010 is the player individuality and the Master League. Fifa 10 has neither of those.
Yes, Fifa is great when it comes to showcasing your individual skills, but at the same time it flops in terms of reproducing a simulation of the real game IMO, because one player and another have almost the same skills. In PES it’s all about the tactics and creating your team, and I get a lot out of that which Fifa really doesn’t offer. It’s a trade up, in other words.
So, please keep the comments reasonable with this in mind. It’s not as black and white as you paint it, and Fifa has numerous other downsides when compared with PES 2010 which you also choose to ignore, e.g. the gameplay bugs, cheap goals, and poor tackling mechanics that haven’t been addressed properly in a patch, unlike PES which now plays a whole lot better after the patch.
PS – Dan, I don’t know if you read my post from last week, but I highly suggest you and your mates give Top Player another go after the patch. I found that the headers are still too easy on Proferssional, and that it is generally a lot more like the game was pre-patch.
PEACE, yo.
1.number of stadiums used to be arround 36 in ps2 and anyway all stadium in ps2 versions back especially berlin olimpic stad
2.i havent read anyone complaining in lack of players and more licensed teams such as bundesliga, premier league, greek turkish and portougese would be nice
3.in previous versions the gk could go up at the end of the game if u had a freekick by pressing triangle, where is it now?
4.the stands shouldnt be full in all games
5.defence players waiting foroffside liftng their hand!!!!
Dopecoil has explained everything perfectly.
To be honest, if you want the closest gameplay simulation of the game of football…Fifa is your game.
But if you want individual details and the football system simulation…Football Manager is for you.
Fifa’s management mode feels like an underplanned sub game, while PES’s master league is better presented, but still pretty poorly executed due to the limit of league’s and players etc…
And both have an unrealistic player development curve.
IMO neither game have really came close to cracking the management simulation aspect, but at least Fifa bares some resembalance to the sport in question.
Fifa looked to past versions of PES for ways improve, now I think PES has to take a few leafs out of Fifa’s book.
FIFA10 or PES10 — both FAIL massively.
I respect what Dan and DD try to do, but I feel it’s just plain offensive. I mean, what are they/Konami gonna say this time around?
The flaws are so obvious, that I really do find it very offensive that Konami take us for granted; as if they needed our help to know what needs to improve.
I guess they are an intelligent bunch, and we are just consumers.
FIFA for PC sucks. Cannot even think of doing anything. PERIOD.
Just fire Seabass and bring in that kid Tom Hanks played in ‘BIG’.
Things Konami need to do to make PES a better game:
* Improve player animations and 360 movement.
* Team stats to be accurate to how each team plays in real life. Same with players.
* Zoomable camera angle with adjustable tilt.
* Add second division teams for each league in master league.
* Customisable referees to adjust leaniency.
* Mode to create your own stadium.
* Get rid of BAL mode and put more effort into Master league.
* Nets to vary in each stadium as in real life.
* Online and other bugs shouldnt be there so it goes without saying these to be fixed.
* Graphics dont need to be touched with more effort into the above areas.
IMO these few new things would make the whole PES experience great and surely would take much effort from Konami to impliment them.
39 dave o
Again dave i think your missing my point,for me a football game lives or dies on the back of the experience on the pitch and this is where the user should have a genuine challenge with the game offering enough scope and depth to provide a descent enough experience on the pitch and learning curve to keep the user satisfied for a year with manager modes/master leagues providing a alternative option to playing with friends but not be the main selling point.
I am a konami purist and have been for twenty years prior to this year i had never brought or ever considered a game by ea instead choosing to stay loyal to a brand(pes)that i hoped would on this current generation of consoles free itself from the limitations of the ps2 and all its restrictions and maybe like ISS/PERFECT STRIKER on the n64/ps1/ps2 offer more user control on the pitch and a move away from statistic driven players and scripted pre-concieved outcomes to a more rounded 21st century product.
You talk about player individuality in pes2010 but i dont believe there is any its all cosmetic and the gameplay is still very basic,one dimensional and dictated by the cpu with preset passing and shooting channels.Going back to pes5/6 at that time fifa was awful a poor mans clone to pes so there simply wasnt a alternative so we all lived with the flaws and querks with most not knowing any better because for them it had only ever been pes unlike me who still wished for more because i and friends had depth of control prior to pes in iss/perfect striker.
In pes everything is focused around player stats and driven by this a cheap way of watering down player control and letting player skills dictate outcomes rather then the user controlling this when in reality this is something that should effect the quality of a pass,shot,through ball but the user should still be able to have direct influence over this.
So we come back to fifa10 which doesnt offer cheap goal nor are all the teams or players the same for example a arsenal will play very different from say chelsea with arsenal playing crisp punchy passes on the ground when chelsea are more direct and physical.As for the tricks in fifa10 there not gimmicks and are cleverly thought out and implemented but are not a requirement to win you can still do the basics and be very effective with the ball although the tricks if timed and executed well give fifa10 a vital layer thats missing from pes2010.I also find the fact that even a championship player can hit a descent through ball or cross accurate as this is the same in reality with the difference being mentality and vision with top players not always skill.The physicality an tackling system is also accurate and gives fifa10 a layer that when you go back to pes2010 makes it feel even more empty and flat.
I never said fifa10 was perfect but for the small numbber of faults it does have it is still better then any other football game that came before it and for this ea should be applauded as they have had the balls to push the envelope and move the genre on unlike konami who in pes have a more substandard product then a 14 year old n64 game.
39 dave o
The patch is also a 27mb dlc update for pes2010 it doesnt change the gameplay this is all in your mind the placebo effect.
I also guarantee you in pes2011 konami will come up with more gimmicks and automation for pes2011 because they believe there system is different and they believe in it at the expense of major gameplay and control alterations that we all really want.We dont want more cups or edit modes we all want more control of the players,more control of passing,shooting,through passing and a descent collision and animation system that is next gen and does the graphics some justice.
PEACE
@ Dopecoil
Spot on with the things your saying. FIFA is so far ahead of PES at the moment but i will say i have noticed a difference with the gameplay since the patch, maybe its just stat tweaks from Konami but there is a definate difference because i couldnt even finish one match before the patch as it was unplayable, but now i quite enjoy playing it even though it still has a lot of faults.
Steve67 48
Respect,i know what your saying steve but theres only so long you can play the same game for 10 years before getting tired of the same flaws and querks.Pes2010 might not be as solid as pes5/6 but even konami trying to emulate those games to the letter isnt enough as weve had pes now for tens years and somethhing more fresh is required.Pes2010 is probably more satifying in a speedy arcade way but when you just want more control of everything and greater variation on the pitch that mirrors reality fifa10 hits the spot.As i have said before fifa10 is nothing new for me as i and friends experienced this level of control in iss/perfect back in the day from konami.Even today perfect striker 3 on the ps2 still has animation and levels of player control akin to fifa10 so would it really hurt for konami to recycle and evolve this opus series as they have nothing to lose,sales are already well down this year in japan and europe which speaks volumes about what people really want from pes instead opting for a more true experience on the pitch aka fifa10..
Ive read a few people talking about the advantage rule but this is included in 2010 its just there’s no clear advantage icon – I have play pulled back for a foul a couple of times a game.
I’d love the scenario’s to come back – youre Liverpool and are 3-0 down in the Champion’s League Final etc etc
I’d also like to see the 2 all star teams back on it – Europe vs The Rest of the World was always popular when i was at uni!!
Everyone wants online fixing
oh and one other quick thing i’d like to see improved – the long throws, they’re too loopy, i want to be able to do one ala Stoke City, especially when playing as one of the poorer teams!!
Dopecoil, I don’t have time to read your long post at the moment, but if you think there is no change in PES gameplay post patch then you’ve got to be kidding me. Have you tried it? If you know anything about me, you know I’m always willing to listen to other peoples’ opinions and leave open the possibility that they are correct. In this case, however, I would bet you a million dollars (seriously!) that gameplay has significantly changed, especially on Top Player. It’s hilarious that you think it’s a placebo effect. Playing Fifa has clearly turned your once firtile brain to mush.
dave o
Seriously a 27mb patch alters all the problems with pes?,it would take a patch of a around 100mb or more to have any influence on the gameplay of pes2010.
I suppose those desperate like yourself for something to alter all the problems clinging on to a pathetic believe that a patch makes a difference,what is needed from konami is a new game built from scratch which would be around 4gb not quick fixes and tweaks to the ai that try to mask the flaws within the core of the game.
With all due respect maybe the fact that your canadian and only tend to watch the bigger teams from around the world gives you tunnel vision and a blinkered believe that pes2010 is a realistic rendition of football.
dave o
Or maybe your just a graphics whore happy with a game that uses a japanese card based stat system to dictate its gameplay,scissor,paper,stone or pokemon trading cards springs to mind.
dave 0
We will probably get to the point with pes soon where player control is the same as a QTE game just random button pushes as thats the ways its heading.How minimal has the user input got to get before you wake up and smell the coffee dave because pes is becoming more watered down and assisted with every passing year and its not like its wasnt already very simplified prior to the ps3,xbox360 era.
Im old school dave when games offered tight player control and depth not making you a passenger to the cpu within a game thats playing out how it wants regardless of your actions on the pitch.Theres contrived and then theres very contrived and pes2010 is the latter,how many chances are you really willing to give konami?.
i have to agree with dopecoil alittle here even though i dont wish to on a few points; the gameplay has not changed alot since pes 6 it has become alittle stale now and needs freshing up; the animations are embarrising player collisions ect ect and the patch has 100% not changed anything in the gameplay on any level difficulty. The thing is dopecoil i dont understand how you can sing fifas praises ive played a few games and found it lifeless no player individualty, floaty like graphics and when you score you dont get that ‘yes’ feeling so to speak. I enjoy pes so much i love this years master league and thers still nothing better than playing your mates with a few beers. I think the shooting and ball physics are perfect too the things that i would want to be in 2011 would be:360 movement; less cpu intrusion(passing); decent refs; scenarios and ofcourse online sorted!
modrics nose
I felt the same about fifa10 at first because i was so used to pes,im not singing fifa10s praises im just saying it is more of a accurate rendition of football and with practise and time gives you everything you see in real life.
Fifa10 is alive and its not floatie it uses real motion captured ball physics so reality doesnt lie and if you watch a game of football players do move in the same fashion.Pes has more satisfying shooting because its basic and rewarding and your not really controlling it giving you the illusion that your better at shooting then you are.
Some of the things ive seen and done in fifa10 have blown my mind as if you have a football brain the build up play and skill you exhibit can produce some of the most breathtaking goals that are just impossible in pes.What im saying is if you have the imagination you can do it plus low percentage risky play works.
Part of the joy of pes is the replays which fifa falls well short in this department but this is secondary to gameplay and this is where fifa10 shines.Your not going to see what fifa10 has to offer in days it takes weeks and months to really appreciate its quality.
well maybe i will try it but i feel very reluctent about it, its not about the money its just that i have always played pes since iis 64 so i feel like i support the game like i support spurs. And i enjoy it so much i reckon ive played at least 15 hours this week and the games been out for 3 months!!
modrics nose
If you loved iss64 like me then your love fifa10 as it is its spiritual sequel.Also if your a spurs fan then get fifa10 because crouch,defoe,kean and co and the way spurs play is brilliantly replicated in fifa10,couch even does the robot when he scores.
Dopecoil, I’m serious…
1 million dollars is yours if you can prove it.
And by the way, I didn’t say anything about it fixing everything. The gameplay changes include making headers much more difficult (very easy to see if you played the game to any significant degree before the patch), early crosses are also way less effective, goalkeepers better (more parried shots), refs slightly (just slightly) better (more fouls called, but there still seems to be much room for improvement in the refs in most peoples opinions), animations smoother, passing better, and CPU AI is better now in that they don’t hang back int he box as much, more counter attacking as well.
PS – Gunners up to top spot! Spurs and Liverpool fighting for a taste of fourth…
is anyone else having problems playing online tonight? it keeps giving me ‘match must be abandoned due to unforseen circumstances’ message!?!
60 Dave O
Havent noticed and yes i still play pes2010 with friends,its hard to tell because the game always went from fine to unplayable to slow to fast again,with keepers being perfect then to completely stupid the next game.If it rains its like playing in treacle and on a sunny day the game plays smoothly becuase the engines not being stressed with rain effects.
You cant kid a kidder dave i have worked in the industry as well as having 30 years of experience of playing games i know pes better then seabass does.
Dopecoil, I’ve read your resume on here a hundred times. Still not impressed by it.
Again, I’m saying you’re dead wrong about there not being gamplay improvements in PES with the patch. Instead of yacking about it and telling me how deluded I am, I suggest you go back and do some pre and post patch playtesting and get your facts straight before you spoil your own rep any further by insulting others incorrectly.
Nuff said.
Dave O 63
Are try it thoroughly tonight and get back to you tommorrow,your reps on the line dave o so you better not be ****ting me because im expecting a noticable change.
Like i care ;)
Anyway, I doubt you will enjoy it, since you’ve obviously found your cup of tea with Fifa, but my point is that you need to be sure of your facts if you’re going to insult someone…
Anyway, the easiest way to test this is play top player and try to score from early crosses, and see how effective crosses in general are. Also, I’ve heard that if you use two different xbox live IDs you can switch between a pre patch and post patch version in order to better notice the differences. They’re subtle, but I swear to you that it’s no placebo effect. In fact, many, many people have said that this basically makes it a whole new game. Take that as you will, but I tend to agree that it’s almost PES2010.5
Just a quick one from me, because im colour blind sometimes when two teams with similar strips clash it can cause problems even with the choice of home and away, in past versions you had a cjhoice of a third all white strip but tthe forever meddling japs for no good reason took it away. Bloody japs!
dave o
I will try it dave with a open mind and get back to you and i didnt mean to insult you.I always enjoy your bloggs and admire your loyalty.
PEACE
PES10 and FIFA10 are both failures as far as “simulations” go.
In FIFA10 I can do incredible things whenever I feel like it, one after the other; it’s a goal fest, one-on-ones all the time.
The dribbling tricks, and slick passing, and all the “next-gen” mechanics cannot hide the fact that FIFA10 haves no depth.
And PES10 is simply dull, a one-trick pony, just like every other PES game that has ever been released. It was good enough 5 years ago, but certainly not good enough anymore.
I always had an interest in PES because I saw potential, but it’s been 5 to 6 years now and we are still playing a polished turd.
Nothing else to say. Perhaps PES10.5 or FIFA10.5 will be a little bit better.
amateur
Your a legend bro i always love your no nonsense approach to your comments.Did you ever play iss/perfect striker because they were great simulations?.
Goal fest on the world class setting in fifa10,bro you are superhuman……….why dont you mix it up and tie one hand behind your back because konami and ea need to make a difficulty setting just for you,they could call it”dont even try you wont score unless your amateur”.
Seriously bro theres still legs in pes lets hope konami do something with it in the next couple of years.
http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/how-commitment-can-set-you-free/#more-2399
Interesting blogg on wenb with a similiar vision to me with lots of iss98 referenses,what the author fails to state is iss64,98,2000 allowed you to overide the assisted settings on the fly when you held the left trigger button on the n64 controller for manual placement of through balls,passes and shots.
Nice to see im not the only lunatic who sees the protential of ressurecting alot of ideas from iss n64,the penaltie system and free kick system from iss n64 as well as the animation would make pes2011 a massive hit.
Enjoy
@ 38
Totally agree with you. I have been begging for it to be put back in for years.
I’m assuming it’s so you can’t cheat on achievements but can’t they just pre-warn you that achievements are disabled when you do this option
@ Dopecoil
Well in my opinion, both PES10 and FIFA10 are simply too predictable and one-dimensional. It is always challenging when you play against good human-opposition…
But my point is — these simulation games do not require any real skills, I do not consider mastering some dribbling gimmick something interesting or entertaining; just another limitation that shouldn’t be there.
It’s just not interesting enough for me, and I certainly don’t consider these games accurate interpretations of the real thing. Both games are far too automatic and superficial.
It can be fun at times, but at the end of the day I think it’s just an addictive hook with no substance at its core.
Bottom line — perhaps these games are good enough for casual footy fans, but certainly not for a hardcore footy fan such as myself.
Football is so much more…
@71 I’ve been so annoyed that this option has been disabled, for 3 years in a row!!! I heard in FIFA 10 that if you choose to play as the opposition CPU a message pops up saying it will disable trophies and achievements, surely thats a better solution than cutting out this option altogether, if indeed thats why they have removed it. In any case I’ve won the Champions League, and it didn’t win me any specific trophies or unlock any players, so why it’s not available at least in this mode, or surely in Community mode. It’s a real gamebreaker for my mates and I, this big problem
@72, Amateur
You are the only one who is thinking the same as I do.
I’m experimenting on this topic of “how to simulate the game on-pitch”. But before that I had to answer myself few questions –
1)will simulating PES ,ruin the fun?
2)If the game is simulated, should there be any difficulty levels?
3)Simulating will obviously make the controls manual, if it happened how will the individuality be maintained?
4)If the game is simulated, will a 5 or 10 minute match be enough to play completely? because the game’s pace will be reduced 3 times PES 2010’s pace.
________________________________________________________
Okay coming back to my point, so far what I’ve found is we need to ‘time’ every action including ball trapping and shooting, etc. This ‘timing’ factor is the first parameter which differentiates between two users or gamers, the secondary should be the players’ abilities. For every ball trapping we should press the trap button, if we do not press trap button the ball follows its physics (just rolls or bounces) this is what happens in Real life football. ( this is somewhat opposite to super cancel). My idea is to have close control button for trapping and sprint button for first touch. And once you have short pass button manual and the Left stick full 360 degree, do you think is a separate button needed for ‘ Through pass ‘? NO !! you can execute short pass and through pass with the same control, because you have the freedom to trap the ball at any moment and you can do the first touch as you like.
This is just a suggestion, I think if it is implemented and released as a demo or a beta version in Playstation network for testing purpose. fans will get a idea of how the next generation of football gaming should be.
Do you think playing the game in the same way as of PES is going to be interesting after 4 or 5 years? PES can attain real like team styles, but what is the significance of the user/gamer in that game where everything is automatic.
Current generation of PES : I can sprint along the wing and give a early cross and as soon as i do it, i press shoot button, and I can put my joystick back on table. The player will come and head the ball in the net. I do not consider this as a good gameplay and this is no where near to simulation.
@ Dopecoil & Modrics nose
Sorry back to the PES gameplay after patch thing, I am a player of PES since way back in the ISS days and am quite sure there is a difference in gameplay since the patch. Could you explain what me and numerous others are seeing if you both feel there has been a 100% no change? I honestly can say i couldnt play PES before the patch and now i can, so what has changed? I think FIFA is the better game still and happy to play that this year so i dont feel im imagining this change down to my desperation for this game to be good, if that makes sense? Respect
A button for awful challenges / nasty tacles / unsportsmanlike conduct would also be nice.
@ steve 67
Hey mate i have been playing this years pes alot so i already thought it was ok b4 the patch. The refs was one thing i beleived the patch would have sorted but i havent noticed any difference but i did get a pen last night while playing my master league. I think i have seen about 2 pens since the patch came out but so many more definate penalty decisions turned down. The game seems just the same i dont see how they can change the gameplay with just 27mb?? What changes have ypu noticed?
hmmm.
im going to go jogging and think about this and then contribute.
@ Modrics nose
I have noticed the movement and passing from players seems a lot better and also the delay has gone. It could be that Konami have just adjusted some stats, im not sure but i couldnt honestly play more than one game before patch. Also the shooting is better and keepers seem more compitent. I havent got a clue about how many mb it would take as i know nothing about the programming side of things, but i wouldnt think many if Konami have just altered stats to make things move and react better. Admit though that the other issues with refs and pens hasnt been addressed which is sad.
@ steve67
Yeah the pen decisions are crazy how could they not see this in play testing!?! On another thought i remeber alot of people saying that there patch had chelsea v birmingham all over it and espn, mine has cadburys cream egg lol anyone else got this?? Also anyone know when the next patch will be released??
dave o,steve67
After four hours of playtesting of pes2010 last night after updating the game with the 27mb dlc update on my ps3 im happy to agree that the patch genuinely makes a difference and four things stood out in particular.
-Response(button and player)
-Player movement(animation and positional sense off the ball)
-Crosses and the through ball
-Forwards staying on the shoulder of the opposition fullback not cutting back in field so now they can run unto a long ball placed behind the defence.
Im now feeling good about pes2010 again as it reminds me of the we2010 demo that i was happy with before i brought the euro retail version of pes2010 which although more finished just didnt feel as good.Ive read and heard people say we2010 was better then pes2010 maybe the patch just updates pes2010 to be the same as its japanese counterpart.
It does demonstrate though that if konami really improve the animation for pes2010 gives us more tricks and dynamic weather plus ISS N64s penaltie and free kick and set piece system konami could have a real winner in pes2011.
dave o
P.S and theres just something so satisfying about konamis passing and shooting it might be assisted but the way that ball flys in a konami game is something magical.
Dopecoil,
Good to hear. I agree with you though that more manual control is needed in PES, I just want it to be more along the lines of freedom of movement, but without sacrificing player individuality, which is very important to me.
Bottom line to me this year is that Fifa is the better game when it comes to simulating the game itself, and by that I mean Fifa is a better simulation of what it’s like to play the actual game because you have more control of passing, movement etc. On the other hand this isn’t 100% in Fifa’s favour because there are several things which I think PES actually does better in this regard, including tackling (though neither have it right IMO) and shooting. Also, I find that the way players move in Fifa is realistic looking, but the feeling of weight and control isn’t as realistic IMO, so I personally would give PES the upper hand on that point.
PES, in contrast is a better simulation IMO of the sport itself. By this I mean that when you play PES you have a much better representation of what it is like to be a manager. A lot of this comes from player likenesses, not just graphically, but in their behaviours (celebrations, etc), and most importantly the imporance of stats and abilities. Another reason for this is that in Fifa the extra control the player is afforded means a loss of individuality. For example, in Fifa you have control of celebrations, but are they realistic? I have found several instances where this freedom results in players doing some very uncharacteristic celebrations, for example in Fifa 09 at least my first goal saw Robin Van Persie doing a backflip…
Anyway, I don’t think PES has the “sport simulation” side of the game quite right yet either, and I feel that Fifa will be much better in this regard next year, since a lot of why PES is better in this area is because Manager Mode is basically broken.
In the end, I play PES because it’s loads of fun and because Fifa 10 is just not my cup of tea. I personally just hate the way it moves, the repetitiveness of animations, and the over-the-top but at the same time soul-less nature of EAs game. With PES, every day I look forward to what big matches are coming up in my Master League, so I have nothing to complain about. Call me blind, or whatever, but what other people think isn’t my concern. I may seem like a fan boy, but honestly, it’s not that I don’t understand what some of you are complaining about. I see the same problems, it’s just that maybe my expectations are different. Again, if the game is fun, addictive, and presenting a challenge, then I’m not going to slate it. The challenge is the one I’m most disappointed with this year, but at the moment anyway the challenge is still very good since my team is still not full of superstars.
First off I konami should continue off the latest patch because there is an improvement from it. I love PES i want it to succeed and it really need to improve to fix its damaged reputation. Fifa is getting too good, now just imagine if Fifa was the only football title out there. Take a look at Madden and people who play american football games(they hate it), theres your answer.
Passing: IMPROVE!
- Manual passing need to be fully 360 degrees(at least more angles) e.g a cut back pass always hits the defender when im directing it behind him to my player
- One two passing. i saw dopecoils idea and has to echo it. What could happen is the human player could hold the skill button and press Y or A, the curser stays on the player that passed it and the player that received the ball holds up play and to release the ball use the manual pass stick (with 360 degrees passing)and a way to cancel is to press the skill button again, switching the curser to the ball handler.
- Better through balls. we need to have better direction to which side of the player the ball goes to and have better pressure sensitivity.
- Better one touch passing
- Faster passing (one touch)
- A way to have faster long passes but less height.
Shooting: GOOD
- More shooting animation basically. Stylish shooting would be nice.
Goal Keeping: OK
- Make them get up faster! heard of a Counter attack!?
- They could save a few more shots.
- Spills ball back out into play TOO much
- If there view is blocked or part blocked there reactions should be SLOWER!
Player AI: OK
- FIX BALL TRAPPING. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP WITH THE BALL WHEN RUNNING OR CHASING AFTER IT!
- FIX THERE FIRST TOUCH ITS HORRIBLE. They should never first touch into the opposition as well.
- Real Time reactions to whats happening on the pitch, they need to be more alert! To add a bit of realism they could be less alert if leading for too long or morale is poor.
- The AI should attack better. Noticeable real time strategies would be nice e.g they noticeable play with more pace if time is running out and their loosing or they counter after counter when your playing with pace.
- Fix it when they just stand in front of you or stay behind you when they should be running in front of you, when you have the ball.
- They need to get into space when attacking not stand next to a defender.
- Better interceptions, Please! (make them stick there legs out if the ball is goin behind them)
Be A Legend: GOOD
- Link with Master League
- Takes a too long for player to improve
- Why do my team always play rubbish?
- See more of our player in the menu. doing kickups or something. interactive in loading menu?
Master League: GOOD
- PLAYERS COMPLAIN TOO MUCH! OVER SILLY THINGS!
- MORE LEAGUES! E.G. COCA COLA CHAMPIONSHIP, SERIE B ECT. (it doesn’t matter if there fake!)
- Original teams. Where have they gone?!
- We should offer our own contracts if we want(FM10 Style. I pay £5,000,000 for a scout that cant even sign a youngster! Why?!
- Realistic transfers from other clubs. I dont want to see Gerrard or Van Persie at Man Utd, Ever, Players should have better loyalty than that.
- I payed £60,000,000 for Queresma. Clubs always want too much.
Online: BAD!
I don’t want any lag and nobody else does either!
- PC version should be a Games for Windows LIVE title with Crossfire with XBOX 360 (set some trends!)
- The Konami ID removed, from all versions of the game.
- Better Filters for games.
Animations: IMPROVE!
- MORE PLEASE!
- Euphoria Engine or Characteristics of it put into the game! (LOOK AT “BACK BREAKER”)
Game Modes:
- Training Exercises with tutorials
- Extra Stuff just for fun.
Probably more ive just forgotten and getting a little bored
HOPE YOU TAKE THIS INTO ACCOUNT. Sorry for the length. Have a Nice day
Wow that was longer than i thought. sorry. lol
and also better fouls, injuries, and cutscenes. lol
@ freak08, post 74
That’s pretty much how I started, asking myself these questions, it is necessary if you want to come up with respectable ideas -instead- of the old “fix the nets!” nonsense.
And yes, definitely, the game will have to move on from the one-dimensional 5 minute per half match.
Football is all about time and space… if you diminish a football pitch to the size of a basketball court; it won’t be football anymore, it would be indoor.
Same thing with TIME, if you diminish it to 10 minutes or 20 minutes; it won’t be football anymore.
And with each passing year is more and more noticeable, there’s no more room for substance. With more animations and more features, etc, etc. the game will need to be longer than the current 10 Minute Simulation.
And I label it as “10 Minute Simulation” because it doesn’t have enough substance to be played any longer than that.
Simulating the game (properly) will only show how outdated and superficial games like PES10 and FIFA10 actually are.
As for your question – Simulating will obviously make the controls manual, if it happened how will the individuality be maintained?
It should NEVER be “manual”. I used to think that “manual” was the way to go, like two years ago -however- I am now convinced that manual is definitely not the way to go.
In fact, I am 99.9% convinced that it would be impossible to play (what I consider) Football if all the players in the game have manual: passing, shooting, etc, etc.
We need to have a balance between Tactical play and Technical play -which- would be impossible if manual controls are a big part of the game.
Remember that in a Football Simulation we get to control all the players, and more important; we play it from a wide-view perspective…
Therefore we can easily spot all the gaps. This is why the game cannot be 100% manual, with everything and everyone perfectly responsive… Because this would give way to a very one-dimensional experience.
I think some players, like for example Xavi and Riquelme, should have “manual passing” as a special ability or card. However, players who are average at passing the ball CANNOT have manual passing, because it is in fact; impossible.
If for example, in FIFA10 all the players feel like they have manual passing. And yet for some reason, Xavi’s manual passing feels more accurate than the average player; it is because it is not really “manual” as some say.
These simulation games need more STATS, particularly for PASSING ability and TACTICAL movement.
Off-the-ball movement should be completely automatic, but the COM must give us control in some very decisive areas of the game; which would not require any manual gimmicks.
I think a football simulation should be a lot like Chess; a game that develops play-by-play… It does not require complicated button gimmicks, instead, it´s all about compromise, consciously building-up and creating a situation where your opponent is forced into guessing.
In my opinion, Football Simulations should be a lot more Chess-like, and a lot less Street-Fighter-like.
Like in Chess, it should require thinking and timing skills; only requiring the tap of a button. Therefore our “skills” would not revolve around how well we master some complicated control gimmicks; instead such a simulation would demand real skills from our part.
In order to make THINKING a reality, it will be necessary to evolve in every aspect: player attributes, animations, off-the-ball concept, control concept, etc, etc.
You see -both- PES10 and FIFA10 are very shallow and superficial. PES10 is so and so minimalistic, that it requires no thinking at all.
And FIFA10 haves so many unnecessary control gimmicks, that what we consider “skill” revolves around breaking that concept; which is very easy.
Oh yeah and another thing:
If underrate Arsenal and overrate Liverpool ever again, i will destroy you.
Just watch Arsenal play(win everything ect.) and say “thats what Pes11 should look like!” :D
@ Dopecoil
Before i start I’m not trying to slate you here or anything of that sort. Ive stayed away from discussions between yourself and daveo as i didnt want to intervene but i just had to cut in after i read one of you posts.
How could you disagree with daveo about the patch not changing the game all this time when you only updated last night as you claimed. This confuses the heck out of me.
But i’m glad you enjoyed it and surprised to see you still enjoying fifa, nonetheless it is good.
IMO Rstar has some good points.
Amateur, I’m not so sure I follow, just because there seems to be an assumption being made about Konami’s intentions. For example, how can you say:
“And I label it as “10 Minute Simulation” because it doesn’t have enough substance to be played any longer than that.”
When the game was obviously designed to be played on 10 min halves?
In other words, it’s blatantly unfair to suggest that the substance isn’t there, because the game was designed for 10 mins, not 30, 60, or whatever you have in mind. If the game was designed for that kind of time, then obviously it would play differently. No?
As for your suggestion though, I think you are also assuming that anyone other than a small minority wants to play anything more than about 15 min halves. Maybe I would, but the simple fact of the matter is that such a game is unlikely to have a market. Do you really think that the mass audience wants uber-long games? I think most people would be turned off by this kind of thing immediately, unless of course you mean an “option” for a longer version of the game within the normal game. The priority level for something like that though I doubt is very high. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, it would be cool, but the amount of development required ot make it good would be quite substantial and so again I would question whether it’s really a great idea in terms of the reality of the market and also considering the fact that Konami and EA have plenty left to do in order to make their current games better (which I would rather they focus on rather than making a long chess-match mode).
Also, don’t forget that a game mode like that would kind of kill the idea of Master League, simply because it would take almost a year to complete one season (or at least several months), and so what happens with aspects of ML like player development, growing your team, etc? They kind of get lost, don’t they? Again, what PES does well and need sto continue to improve IMO is simulation of the sport, not necessarily the experience of playing a game. This idea of longer matches would obviously be nice to have, but it runs contrary to the basics of what they are trying to do.
fallensoldier
I couldnt see how a 27mb patch would make a difference but it does,to be fare to dave o he is pretty thorough and knows his stuff so he swayed my quick judgement as like me he has a eye for the finer detail.
Dave o
Cheers dave for the heads up on the update now pes2010 is good enough for me to enjoy the master league over the coming months so im going to get stuck in.I know what you mean about passing but iss/perfect striker was stat driven to and had buckets of individuality and used the pes system of passing it just allowed you to use the trigger button to go manual when you wanted on passes and shots plus allowed you to put more spin on the ball to arc and curl the ball more and you could turn the search option off on passing in the options menu if you wanted to go more manual with the left thumbstick and buttons and this would be a great addition to pes2011 then everyones happy.Given the choice i prefer konamis take on the sport theres just so many little touches from iss that would give pes2011 more layers.
RSTAR
Pes2011 does need the old n64 one two system it worked like a dream and could be easily implemented into pes and people would love it.I would also like to see the trap button return which wouldnt comprimise the current button layout as the long pass button doubled up for this function.
@ Amateur, post 86
______________________________
Unlike other games, football games are not coming up with a new gameplay technique. The concept behind first PES and the latest PES (PES 2010) are very much similar. The gameplay is very narrow and we need only very less thinking or even no thinking (as you mentioned) for playing this. PES plays like the game ‘commandos’ and we are in need of a game which plays like ‘company of heroes’ This comparison may not be apt, but over years how the strategy games have developed, similarly football should also evolve and the gameplay should be widened.
Whatever, In my deep mind it is registered that we are just faking ourselves by playing a football game which only gives short entertainment and the game is not of our generation.
PES has achieved the peak of football gaming in the last gaming generation with its unique gameplay(PES 5 or 6) . But for this generation where everyone knows more about football and simultaneous development in other gaming sectors, these football games have to come up with something new and which requires steady adaptation with the game.
For example, In Master League after few matches and training sessions, players must adapt to the style in which we play. And once we suddenly change the style, the whole team or part of the team should react accordingly and here is the players’ ability to understand the situation needed. Suppose I play like arsenal for 2 weeks and suddenly I play all long balls ( unlike arsenal), the team should show some imbalance in build-up, off the ball player movement, players pace and positioning, etc, etc. Once when this concept is taken seriously with further research, an important part of football is then simulated. So following this, one can setup other factors depending/similar to it.
How close we are following our tactics, that much chances are there for winning the game. In real football you cannot change the tactics for every 5 minutes and these tactics may work well with PES, but are we following and playing according to the tactics set by us? NO, these tactics are just used to fool the AI and find another way to score which is never in relation to our planning/tactics.
@ Amateur
” In order to make THINKING a reality, it will be necessary to evolve in every aspect: player attributes, animations, off-the-ball concept, control concept, etc, etc.”
leave them, first these football games have to fix the very basic concept of stamina and game’s pace. These games play only the FUN side of football and not the LOGIC or TACTICAL side. So its very clear PES 2011 is no different than PES 2010 or PES 2008 or PES 6 in terms of innovation in gameplay.
freak08 91,92
A very excellent and thought provoking read,it reminds me of where i was expecting the football genre to be today in the year 2010 back in the 90s when konami had seemed to have nailed all the gripes we all have today with pes ie player control(physical input with your stick and buttons),ai,physics,animation and the future seemed almost limitless.
If anything apart from graphics more menu options and modes football games in a lot of ways have actually gone backwards dictated more by the cpu giving the user less choice with his physical inputs.Maybe this is the problem this message isnt clear to konami because maybe when we say we all want more control they percieve that as tactics sliders and card systems not physical input on the pitch.
While i do agree pes hasnt changed greatly over the years there is a difference technically say between pes5/6 to pes2009/2010 with pes2009/2010 certianly being more sophisticated from a technical or coding point of view.
Maybe the best is still to come pes2010 is certainly a good base to build from as konami still have something in there games that do set them apart from ea.
Personally for me user physical input with your stick and buttons is the direction konami should be heading and bringing the animation and movement into the 21st century as they have nailed the graphics.Konami dont have to clone fifa10 they can still produce something as good or if not better in there own way.Going back to your point though 12 month development cycles are hindering the evolution of the genre when most other games have 2-3 years plus development time.
One thing i will say though ai is nothing new coders have had fantastic ai since the 70s its just a lot of watering down has to be done to make the ai more human otherwise it would be faultless and impossible to play.We do have the technology and ai today to replicate most things that happen in a real game its just the limitations of game engines that hold back the advancements you talk about.
Great read though i look forward to more of your posts.
1. The stamina is still not correct. Gallas and Vermaelen have played EVERY MINUTE of EVERY premier league fixture and nearly every champions league game (except olimpiacos) and they can last 90 minutes but if you play three games in a row in pro your stamina is shot and you have to rotate for the next game. Whats that all about!?
2. I can play home and away ties in exhibition mode with or without away goals on ps2 but why is this not on ps3?
Please this in.
3. Again on ps2, in training mode, i can rewind play by a second with the select button so i dont have to keep enduring goal kicks from the keeper and run all the way up the field agin to shoot once, miss and then have to watch a goal kick again and again.
@ dopecoil
I understand now where you coming from mate, it just seemed a little weird at first.
By the way way because of you i tried iss 2000 i think it was, good game saw some animations i would want to see in well pes 2011. I especially liked a part where i was fouled by the ai and the ref give the player a warning and he took out his book and wrote his name in. Wished that was in 2010.
@ Dopecoil, post 93 Thanks for reading and considering my post.
______________________________
Like many of us who think, the gameplay of PES is not matching the style of current simulation games. The main reason for this is the problem with understanding the sport by the football game developers. For a football game the classifications are ‘how the user plays’ and ‘how the AI plays’. The first is totally dependent on users thinking and way of playing. But the second is the biggest concern where it must show variations according to the situation.
So how to make the AI more flexible so that it reflects the real football teams? For this we need to understand the concept behind it. For explaining purpose I’m comparing football teams with car racing games. The very first concept is about “behavioral Model“. Every team play in some style and the overview of this style is easily noticeable, like Arsenal plays passing game and Manchester United play an attacking game. So what is the two MAJOR team behavior here – Arsenal – passing and Man Utd- attacking. How to get this concept inside PES so that the AI follows it? Okay coming to car racing, the behavior of a Mustang is different from a Corvette. Again A stock Mustang GT will show different behavior than a third party modifier of Mustang like Shelby or Saleen. How do the Car simulation games implement this? Do they attain this individuality just by changing the stats of the car? According to me KONAMI have developed ONLY ONE ‘behavioral model’ and tweaking that they have applied to all the teams. It’s like PES is Lamborghini and is tuned to race in street, NASCAR, formula1, Rally, Drag, Le Mans, etc. This is totally impractical and will not show any realism and does not have any significance.
So getting a basic of at least 5 different types of BEHAVIORAL MODEL and implementation of it in teams can be the first step in bringing the individuality of the team style. The Next step is the fine tuning of that model to exactly represent the team style. Now we have designed the car (ideal gameplay). This car should show small variations in behavior to adjust to the race conditions (gameplay depending on situation – that depends on user’s way of playing). For upgrading the car we use the spare parts (player individuality). So under one behavioral model the teams which follow that style can be tuned with some +/- in % of team stats adjustments, which AI does in order to meet the condition, here that fine tune have advantages and disadvantages. Thus it’s somewhat like this – Arsenal and FC Barcelona follows the BEHAVIORAL MODEL (A), but the fine tuning of the style makes the difference within the style. Just like Corvette (Muscle car) has two variants – Corvette C4 (Arsenal) and Corvette C6 (Barcelona), but both are muscle car and they have similar core driving with performance variation. Like this a Nissan Skyline would be different from Mitsubishi Lancer and Subaru Impreza. How do they get this individuality in car games? Again we have to follow one thing; there is no chance of making a Mustang drive like a Mitsubishi. If this is done the individuality is lost. So the tuning should be limited for teams so that they do not lose the core style of play.
I do not know this comparison was meaningful, but I’ve thought of this long back and wanted to tell about this and I’m not sure if this can be implemented in PES. This car concept is ONLY for AI. And I’ll be the happiest man if KONAMI starts thinking to implement this kind of concept. In GT5 if all the cars behaved the same way, is there a need of 1000 cars? Think again. Is this kind of individuality impossible to implement for at least 10 teams in PES? Will this kind of individuality take PES to next level? Will Konami think of it at least by PES 2014?
Like many of us who think, the gameplay of PES is not matching the style of current simulation games. The main reason for this is the problem with understanding the sport by the football game developers. For a football game the classifications are ‘how the user plays’ and ‘how the AI plays’. The first is totally dependent on users thinking and way of playing. But the second is the biggest concern where it must show variations according to the situation.
So how to make the AI more flexible so that it reflects the real football teams? For this we need to understand the concept behind it. For explaining purpose I’m comparing football teams with car racing games. The very first concept is about “behavioral Model“. Every team play in some style and the overview of this style is easily noticeable, like Arsenal plays passing game and Manchester United play an attacking game. So what is the two MAJOR team behavior here – Arsenal – passing and Man Utd- attacking. How to get this concept inside PES so that the AI follows it? Okay coming to car racing, the behavior of a Mustang is different from a Corvette. Again A stock Mustang GT will show different behavior than a third party modifier of Mustang like Shelby or Saleen. How do the Car simulation games implement this? Do they attain this individuality just by changing the stats of the car? According to me KONAMI have developed ONLY ONE ‘behavioral model’ and tweaking that they have applied to all the teams. It’s like PES is Lamborghini and is tuned to race in street, NASCAR, formula1, Rally, Drag, Le Mans, etc. This is totally impractical and will not show any realism and does not have any significance.
So getting a basic of at least 5 different types of BEHAVIORAL MODEL and implementation of it in teams can be the first step in bringing the individuality of the team style. The Next step is the fine tuning of that model to exactly represent the team style. Now we have designed the car (ideal gameplay). This car should show small variations in behavior to adjust to the race conditions (gameplay depending on situation – that depends on user’s way of playing). For upgrading the car we use the spare parts (player individuality). So under one behavioral model the teams which follow that style can be tuned with some +/- in % of team stats adjustments, which AI does in order to meet the condition, here that fine tune have advantages and disadvantages. Thus it’s somewhat like this – Arsenal and FC Barcelona follows the BEHAVIORAL MODEL (A), but the fine tuning of the style makes the difference within the style. Just like Corvette (Muscle car) has two variants – Corvette C4 (Arsenal) and Corvette C6 (Barcelona), but both are muscle car and they have similar core driving with performance variation. Like this a Nissan Skyline would be different from Mitsubishi Lancer and Subaru Impreza. How do they get this individuality in car games? Again we have to follow one thing; there is no chance of making a Mustang drive like a Mitsubishi. If this is done the individuality is lost. So the tuning should be limited for teams so that they do not lose the core style of play.
I do not know this comparison was meaningful, but I’ve thought of this long back and wanted to tell about this and I’m not sure if this can be implemented in PES. This car concept is ONLY for AI. And I’ll be the happiest man if KONAMI starts thinking to implement this kind of concept. In GT5 if all the cars behaved the same way, is there a need of 1000 cars? Think again. Is this kind of individuality impossible to implement for at least 10 teams in PES? Will this kind of individuality take PES to next level? Will Konami think of it at least by PES 2014?
Contd……
Once this concept is followed, then other factors can be easily simulated. The Tactics are the fine tuning of the gameplay. Post match player ratings can be derived accurately – how close the player follows the style or contributes to maintain the style and how much % has he contributed to repair the mistakes made by him. How important was he in performing in the particular job assigned to him and how far has he assisted in overall match. Has he performed up to his standard? These questions have to be arranged in accordance to priority for determining a players’ post match rating.
Once we get some 5 behavioral model, fine tuning them can deliver many other beta models which suits the team styles. Now it’s the AI, which has to adjust the tuning, keeping the spare parts (player individuality) in mind. The AI should also be aware of the substitute player who has different capability and the tuning should be in accordance to adjust the player’s ability.
Here team styles do not mean custom sliders but they have to be incorporated within the behavioral model. Likewise, something new is expected in PES which will reflect football in every manner. Let’s make suggestions for PES 2014 and not PES 2011. If this is considered as next level, we can play next level PES by 2014. What say?
sorry for the double post
Just would like to ask where the patch is available from and what console(s)
i live you