Interfering With Play – Tuesday 26th January 2010
Posted by Dan Bolas in Interfering With Play on Tue 26 Jan
Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. When writing a weekly column like this, on a subject as specific as football gaming, it is sometimes quite tricky to find talking points or things to discuss, especially at this time of year. Fortunately, due to the sheer involvement of the community over the past seven days, I am actually cutting down topics and trying to prioritise which points would be best discussed this week and which would be best lest for future instalments. Hopefully I have got the balance right this week, but it is testament, once again, to the devoted and committed PESGaming.com community, whose passion for this franchise is exceptional. Instead of me babbling on any further with this introduction, let’s crack on with the week’s hectic Interfering With Play.
“It’s Nothing Personal”
To start this week, I will open in direct response to a comment made in last week’s IWP by regular contributor, MagicaRoma His comment can be viewed by all in the comments section of last week’s IWP, but for those who missed it, the topic was basically my lack of discussion regarding FIFA 10 this year, and how I had not posted reviews for PES 2010 and FIFA 10. I am not the kind of person to take such a well constructed and honest comment personally, and his main question was whether or not I actually preferred FIFA over PES this year, and that I was keeping it quiet because of that.
I can categorically assure you that I am 100% a Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 fan. Whilst the FIFA franchise has vastly improved since its PS3 inception, I don’t feel the progress made between 09 and 10 was all that great, and I found myself being bored after a single game on FIFA 10. It is not a bad game, and nor is that my official review of the title, but in my personal opinion, PES is a more enjoyable experience on near enough every level. Many people have claimed that if I spent enough time with FIFA, I would grow to appreciate it more than PES, but on that philosophy alone, I would end up preferring Dr. Pepper ahead of Coca Cola, or Five Live instead of Radio One. At the same time, if I genuinely enjoyed FIFA 10, my brand loyalty wouldn’t matter two bits. I spend my time working throughout the day, when I come home I want an enjoyable gaming experience, and would not suffer playing a game I genuinely didn’t enjoy just because it was made by Konami, or because I had an affiliation to this site.
PES still needs some work, I don’t think the most die hard of fans could deny that. For me, it is still the best football game currently available to play, matching the balance of enjoyment and realism very well indeed. The claims of half finished, broken or simply unplayable are a little far fetched by some community members, and for the minority who don’t find either FIFA or PES enjoyable, the solution is simply play neither. I am still surprised to see FIFA fans turning up on this site, people who play FIFA commenting on PES and even PES fans who have since turned to FIFA returning here to add their views. Maybe this is because the FIFA community isn’t as strong as this one, or maybe it is because you believe Konami have come closer than EA Sports to making that perfect football title in the past. From my point of view though, PES is still closer to the perfect end result, the Holy Grail if you will, of football gaming, and I believe that is why this site, and the franchise in general is still going strong.
In response to the review situation, I did actually pen a review for PES 2010, which was posted on this site just prior to the games release. If anyone would like a copy, I have no problem e-mailing it through to them if they get in contact via e-mail. I received my review copy of FIFA 10 in November, and after playing the game for a few hours over the course of a week, I ended up in the situation of the Yellow Light Of Death on my PS3, a problem which took near enough 3 weeks to resurrect. Upon getting the new PS3, FIFA 10 was two months old, had many reviews already out there and I simply had other issues to concentrate on leading up to Christmas. The review fell down the list of priorities, and although the game falls into the ‘played once a week to see if I am missing anything’ category, I honestly don’t think I could write an in depth review of FIFA 10 at this time and say anything that hasn’t already been said. Hopefully, that answers any questions, and if you have any further MagicaRoma, or anyone for that matter, my e-mail is at the bottom of the article.
“Screaming Infidelities”
To keep you guys informed regarding the PES 2010 crashing issues on PS3, I have actually had some pretty good conversations with Konami, having them take on board the issue and ‘pass it on to the right people’. As a community site, it is steps like this that hopefully make it all worth while, and whilst there are very few other PES sites even discussing the crashing issue, we are more than open to get it out there and hopefully put the problem to bed. I appreciate the comments made about playing the game disconnected from the internet (again, a measure we really shouldn’t be having to do) but both times I have had my modem switched off, the game crashed first time up. Maybe I was unlucky, and my game never seems to crash at Anfield or Old Trafford, which I know people have had their game crash at.
The question Konami have asked me, which I will relay on to you guys, is which Firmware are you running on your PS3? I am using the latest update version, and you can check this by going to system information on the X Media Bar of your PS3 Home Screen. Basically, Konami need to recreate the exact issues we are experiencing in order to solve the problem, so any information I can pass on to them will further help the case. Yes, it is glorified testing for Konami, but I want to be part of the solution, and should the crashing end up being eradicated, I will know that PESGaming.com have played some part in sorting it out.
“It’s Getting Hot In Here”
So, for most of you, this is the whole chase now. I have cut out two or three smaller points to allow for the big issue, and that is how to improve PES for the future, how to help play our part in history, and in doing so have the ultimate football gaming experience. Yes, we have been burned before, and yes, some people will refuse to offer their views and opinions, but I am open for one more try. One more year of seeing if we can have it all. All the old features back, all the new features in, the AI, the animation and game modes. A working online system that actually makes the game universally playable online. A Master League mode that sticks to its roots but at the same time offers a new challenge to rival the early years. An edit mode that allows the game to look more realistic than an episode of Match Of The Day. I am willing to lead the campaign along with Double D, and the road to October starts here and now!
The idea I would like to try and follow is to dedicate a couple of weeks to each specific topic, as to not mistreat any issue or end up going over old ground. Last week, I mentioned about features that have been removed from previous versions of PES, and would be welcomed with open arms back into future versions. The lists people provided ranged from the absurd to the blatantly obvious, and I will leave this topic open another week before we move onto the next issue. I feel by going through the features with a tooth comb and noticing what Konami did well on previous games can really lead the way forward over the coming months, and also give us a base for a list of improvements.
Some of the issues coming out of the previous weeks posts, and ones that will be included in future lists are
• More stadiums – The PS2 version still boasts a high 30, whereas PS3 and 360 are stuck with 22
• Scenario Mode – Made famous in the ISS series on N64, it gives an alternative way of earning trophies/achievement points and a short fix challenge.
• PES Shop – A way of unlocking a variety of novelty and unique items as and when required, and rewarded gamers for playing exhibition matches as well as competitions.
• Training Mode Challenges – Similar to scenario mode, a bit of light fun to take away from playing matches and test your skills
• All Star teams / Random teams – A way of playing against Human players with a level playing field, selecting a random team of players (PES6).
• Attendances – The ability for the stands to be empty or full, relating to the atmosphere.
• Goalkeeper Control – The ability to roll or throw the ball out instantly, in a wide range of directions and at different levels of power.
If your feature isn’t on there, it has not been ignored, but simply wasn’t as supported on the e-mail or comments. Other features will be added to the list next week, so if there are things that used to feature on PES that currently don’t make sure you let me know about them so I can include them.
One feature that I don’t understand was button sensitive passing. It has been to my knowledge that in PES, the longer you hold the pass button down, the stronger the pass, but also the longer it takes to hit the pass. For example, if I was Gallas for Arsenal, a short tap of the Pass button would play the ball to Vermarlen. However, if I hold the pass button down longer, the ball would by pass the Belgium and go to Clichy, this has always been the case for me, and I wonder what people exactly mean by the button sensitive passing. The same can be said for the loft through ball. If my CB has the ball, a quick lofted through ball is absolutely useless, but by holding down the shoulder and threw ball buttons, I can lift the ball over the opponents defence for a striker to run on to. Maybe I am missing something, but this is surely the same thing people are asking for.
That’s your lot for this week. The return of Amateur to the community will no doubt start off a few more talking points over the next seven days, and I may even have a Second Phase column coming out in the week to address an issue raised by him in last week’s IWP. However, for now at least, I will leave you with what you have. Please get in touch with your ideas for features from previous PES / ISS you would like to see included in future PES. Bullet point lists make them easier to manage and review over at a rush, but I do read every comment, so follow your own style. interferingwithplay@hotmail.co.uk is the place to get all your e-mail through to me. I read it all and reply to as much as my time allows me to. Finally, don’t apologise for writing long posts. If they are well constructed and valid they will be exactly as long as the need to be! If they are offensive dross, or simply pointless and off topic, that is when they become too long.
Thanks for Reading
1st!
I think the button sensitive passing refers to that as on FIFA, whereby you actually get a bar appear that shows the strength of the pass (like the shoot gauge). This means you can create a pass of any length, whereas in PES it’s the short one, or hold down for the long pass – no real analogue control as such on the button.
Also re. the crashing, I find if you let the opening sequence run till the players start to run out the tunnel then there is no crashing – mine only crashed if i tried to skip the opening sequence from the start.
They gotta bring back the option for another player to play as the CPU team, when they are the opposing team to a friend, when you’re playing tournaments with some mates around. It would be so very simple to enable it again, and it wouldn’t have any affect on the game, all they gotta do is switch it on! My mates and myself have been waiting for this to return for 3 years! It’s wrecked the offline multiplayer option, please bring it back!
^^ This issue doesn’t seem to get mentioned much, but it’s of major importance to us. We can no longer play multiplayer tournaments together offline!!
Why cant pes fans that see clearly that fifa10 is vastly superior to pes now comment on site in the hope that this may influence konami to up there game and produce a beeter quality product on the pitch this year.
This continued insular thinking looking back at previous installments of pes for some kind of light bulb moment is not the answer for konami.Ive made it clear myself that fifa10 is just a iss/perfect striker clone that ea have ripped off and look at how much praise has been lavished on there game this year over pes2010.Its all well and good staying loyal and denying the strides ea have made with fifa10 but the press and the sheer volume of pes fans that are playing fifa10 now over pes tells its own story.The longer konami cling to the pes template and its ageing flawed dynamics the more the water is going to fill the konami boat to the point where even the most cunning marketing is going to have any impact on future sales as it will be the company the cryed wolf to many times..
After my innitial early impression of the 27mb dlc having a improved impact on the gameplay of pes2010 a few days in the same glaring flaws start to raise there heads again like the horribly contrived automatic shooting to the just plain jerky player animations and totally assisted passing that takes away any sense of doing it yourself or having any real physical input on the pitch which just renders the game flawed and just plain frustrating.
Konami just need to ressurect there treasured iss series from the n64,keep the same clever intuitive button layout and also re-introduce the set piece,free kick and penaltie system from this series that actually worked was more logical and intuitive to use and was infact more technical like almost all the other aspects of this game.
Its not rocket science and seabass needs to get over his pes ego and realise that the other division at konami kcoe or major a,actually produced better more simulated and realistic football games then his team.
If not it will be a case of history repeating next year much as this year and the last two with pes fans and there blinkered request for a pes5/6 update keeping this protentially great series in the dark ages its been now for ten years.
For anybody that thinks im kidding get yourself a n64 and a copy of iss2000 forget the graphics and focus on the controller interface and ai and then tell me im not right.
What happened Dopecoil mate, you used to be able to spell!! LOL
Agree that Konami need to let go of the past to take the game into the future, the way EA did with FIFA
PES is too automated for me and has no feel whatsoever, i might aswell watch the match, but then i would get pi***d off with the refs, keepers and roboplayers
Come on Konami, sort it out, please!
And the reason dan bolas that i and many others come back to this site even though we do prefer fifa10 this year is because this is the only place you get good intelligent comments that are not censored or where you are not banned for having a different opinion to the owner of the site ie WENB and PESFAN that just believe that making pes6 hd is the answer and cannot see further then the walls of the pes box.
Come on even the edge magazine notorious fans of pes for years rated fifa10 higher and could see its technical enhancements and how its opened up the genre again so are they wrong!.
Pes2010 is unfinished it is flawed and its very basic and frustrating and the free kick and set piece system has to change,and if konami think the penaltie system is good then we are in trouble.
Of course you have to take the pes line because your a pes sight but would you bye coca cola if you could bye another product that tasted better had more after taste.
Great Blog Dan. I couldn’t agree with you more about why I play PES over Fifa this year.
What I would add to that though is that unlike some people I actually played quite a bit of Fifa 09, and like you said, the difference between 09 and 10 isn’t substantial enough for me. Also, I love the managerial aspect of footy games, and PES is much much better this year in that regard.
Personally, I’m loving the contract problems and management side of the game so far. I’m faced with situations this year which in previous years I wasn’t having to deal with. Maybe some of this was stolen from other games, including Fifa, but I’m loving things like the fact that my best player is asking for too much money, and I’m having to try to sell him off and bring in less expensive talent, and that some players are unhappy with not getting enough playing time. This adds a lot to the realism and “storyline” of PES 2010, which is so much a part of what I love about it this year. Again, in the future I think they need to continue down the same path, developing a simulation of the World of Football, and to me this means more player individuality and less “manual control.” I’ll explain exactly what I mean by this more at another time…
PS – Eventually I would still love to here your comments on the patch. Have you tried playing it on Top Player yet?
PEACE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12KdxIq5o0o
This is a video of mine showing the japanese version of iss n64 that came out on the ps2 in 2001 that was a ultra refined version of this opus series which had animation and 360 movement with manual shooting,passing,long passing and one-twos that could be delayed as well as graphics on par with pes2010 and visble linesman.Anyone who plays fifa10 will instantly see that a simiiar play can be done on fifa10 as in the real game.Is this not the way forward for pes look how it moves and how reactive the ai is?
AND CHECK OUT MY OTHER VIDEOS AND JON MURPHY SHOW THIS TO SEABASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave O
Again dave you dont know what your talking about regarding player individuality and manual input,a players stats should dictate the size of the invisible square or window that the pass,through pass,cross goes into with a gerrard for example hitting his through ball into a much samller square or window then a weaker player therefore his margin of error is smaller.YOU SEE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT IT CAN BE DONE BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE BY KONAMI,you where the same about more axis of movement being a big fan of 8-axis and the d-pad but fifa10 has shown that more axis is superior as is the analog stick.
kkkjk
why not pess ika 2010 All league as evil and will not bundes original icons anblemet Chelsea arsenal though
Although all pess 2010 Sikat will not lean as bundes league and Chelsea arsenal anblemet original icons though
though not all as FIFA League in 2010 why why
Dopecoil,
Let’s not jump to conclusions again, ok?
The one thing I like about you is that you are willing to listen to people’s opinions (sometimes) and even change your own from time to time. I’m the same way, and I have gotten used to the analog stick, so I’m willing to say that it hasn’t been as bad as I thought it would be. However, there are still advantages with the D pad, but the only way to get them back is to redesign the basic controller.
Anyway… My point is that you shoudl learn from the last time you spoke without getting your facts straight to at least wait until I actually explain what I am proposing with regards to player individuality before you jump to the conclusion that I “don’t know what I’m talking about.” How can you say that when I clearly said that I would have to explain this more soon? Ridiculous man, freaking ridiculous!
Anyway, I doubt you will get anything out of my ideas because they aren’t, I don’t think, the same as what you want. You really need to wake up and realize that your opinion/taste is not the same as everyone else’s before you blindly insult someone. If you continue to think everyone else is wrong and you’re opinion is the only possible one just because you used to work for the ISS group, you are very soon going to just get ignored by everyone. You have a right to make your opinion known, but you have no right to tell others that theirs is wrong without making any allowances for personal preference.
Again, you are happy playing practice mode and against friends in Fifa. For me, that’s not what I want. So there’s a good example of where your argument falls apart. How can everyone be expected to have the same wish list as you do, when different people enjoy different aspects of the game?
Anyway, I haven’t played your “opus series” for many years, so your continued references to it are just getting annoying. I have watched the videos, and I’m not impressed. I also pointed out numerous times that the dribbling wasn’t truly 360 degrees, but you seem to not get what I mean by that. I don’t know what else to say except that you are welcome to continue to rant about ISS, but I won’t be reading your posts anymore if you can’t be more respectful to others opinions.
Dopecoil
You are a bit of a cnut!
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Dopecoil,
The same thing happened to me the other day, after at least a month of not touching PES10, I played the game and I actually enjoyed playing it.
But like you said, the same old flaws started appearing once again… and then I got too bored to play the game.
But regardless, I still prefer PES10 to FIFA10. I find PES10 a more true-to-life simulation. I can actually feel the transitions between each and every play.
And these transitions that I notice in PES10 and in real-life football; I just don’t get that feeling when I play FIFA10 or any FIFA title for that matter.
Perhaps I don’t share the same opinion as you, simply because I have not given FIFA10 enough time.
I do think that FIFA feels more “organic” and at times more realistic -but- it’s just too repetitive. The speed of the game, the passing of the game, the dribbling; it gives way to a one-dimensional and free-flowing game.
Unlike you, I find myself unable to enjoy these “simulations” for more than one day of solid play.
Hi to All,
I think its important for us to remain respectful to each other although I know most of us here are passionate about PES. Afterall, it is still just a video game and it should not take us to the point where we are disrespecting each other by calling each other ugly names.
Furthermore, this fighting amongst ourselves is not necessary since all of us here are victims of Konami/Seabass poor effort on this title. We should be pissed at them not at each other.
Dopecoil makes some solid points and so does Dave O. Putting Fifa aside, I think we can all agree that PES 2010 has problems and a lot of them. AS Dopecoil stated, Konami needs to make drastic improvements to the game. The game has too many bugs and it is just frustrating to enjoy the game anymore. Dopecoil has made reference to the importance of Konami looking back at previous title to see if they could invoke some of the classic framework on the present console. Like Dave O, I have not played any of the past series in a very long time and I do not believe this is the solution to fixing PES….as a matter of fact i think this is the base of its problems.
Since its intro to next gen, PES has gone downhill. This is because Seabass has decided to keep the same old engine from its PS2 days. Therefore, animations look robotic, collisions are horrible and users have yet to gain full control over players. Lets also look at Konami/Seabass main problem….ONLINE, still not fixed after three years of promises. What major title today lacks a decent online environment?
This brings me personally to believe that Seabass has bitten of more that he can chew. I strongly believe that the reason we are not seeing any improvements is because the current developing team is stumped when it comes to next gen consoles. Graphically, there are improvements but gameplay and online is giving them hell. It doesn’t take much to realize that Konami is in trouble.
Now for those who do not like Fifa that is fine by me. However, the reason why Fifa is even being discussed here is because it is now a valid competitor. Although many may hate to admit it ….Fifa works. Passes go when and where you direct them, freedom of space with no ugly collisions, individual skill is achievable with some practice and most of all….ONLINE WORKS. Dan stated he got bored after a single game….and thats fine, maybe its just not his cup of tea, but we cannot be biased and not acknowledge how vastly improved Fifa has become. Regardless of its gameplay, it has far less bugs than PES and that alone has catapulted the title ahead of PES which is now riddled with really frustrating problems.
Will PES 2011 be better ……I don’t think so.
For pc users…..hope it’s working now
http://uk.games.konami-europe.com/blog.do;jsessionid=9C3C0FE8F35DEBFBE978E17C6133100C#blog-entry-152
I agree with Dopecoil, until he changes his mind again
Lets have a history should we….
Dopecoil Says:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 am
I have had the game for over 2 weeks now and it is the greatest PES ever.
Dopecoil Says:
October 18th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Ive got to come in hear and jump to the defence of pes2010 because again what i am reading is lunacy.
You all wanted scripted contrived gameplay gone from pes it now has,invisible walls on throw ins it now has,a game based on skill and being quick with your head rather then your reflexes which we now have,simulated realistic gameplay that requires thought and build up play which we now have,a more technical realistc movement system that enhances the long ball and crossing which we now have.
Again whats so revolutonary or innovative about fifa10 because its contrived and scripted against the cpu,the players float across the pitch and the ball is floatie,you cant chest trap or change the momentum with your player as in pes10 and theres no change of energy in the ball or variation in tempo of the game like there is in pes10 plus you dont have the variation in playing style of the teams a workable tactics slider and card system or the dynamic ai of pes10.
But of course it looks better in the widecam fifa10 and all the biased reviews based on animation so therefore fifa10 must be superior then.Konami are damned if they do and damned if they dont even when they produce the best game they ever have.Shame on the naysayers and doom merchants happy to beat the fifa10 drum now its ugly and a game that panders to the mainstream and people that dont have to understand football and you think this is innovation.
Dopecoil Says:
October 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
oh and my goalkeepers dont make mistakes in pes2010 try learning how to defend properly and dont let your defence get out of shape or your team and if you understood the clever ai of pes2009 and gave it time you will understand pes2010 again a game that takes time to click and understand not like fifa10 a game which ive never played till this year but still hammered the cpu on wordclass on my first play………its a fake game of football.
Dopecoil Says:
October 18th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Anonymous
Needless to say fifa10 got sold on ebay weeks ago and my copy of pes2010 hasnt been out of my ps3 since.Me and my mates have already racked up hours on pes2010.
Dopecoil Says:
October 15th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
All this negativety which means only one thing it must be good,your all protecting your arses based on pes2008/2009 and are jumping to snap judgements,time will tell and history will make the so called informed look pretty stupid and short sighted.
YOUR ALL WRONG PES2010 IS THE BOMB!!!!!!
Dopecoil Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Anyone whos played the we demo will have a good idea of what to expect from the final version of pes2010 as this demo is a lot closer to the finished game then the euro version and if youve only played the pes2010 demo naturally you will be full of doubt and negativety.
What does suprise me is peoples insistence that fifa10 is superior when its clear from the we demo that pes2010 is a lot more layered and multi dimensional then fifa10 that still has a very floatie ball and players that lack weight or feel and any level of individuality.
For me and from my own personel experience of the we demo its taken me 2 weeks and countless hours to really appreciate the sublety and sheer unlimited depth and variety of pes/we2010 this year.From the way you can totally control your teammates off the ball with smart cursor changes in the semi-assisted setting to the almost un-limited scope of the long ball and crossing and the sheer variety of angles this now gives the user.Then you have the defensive ai and the new ability to close shop and defend and attack as a unit rather then separate loose entitys.
I think people are becoming to fixated with animation and cosmetic fluidity without realising the volume of small subtle changes and animations that konami have implemented into pes2010 this year that enhance the gameplay not the cosmetic look of the game from a far.Also for those that adapted to pes2009s ai and stuck with this flawed game a understanding and realisation of this games beauty will come sooner rather then later.
What shocks me and suprises still even though both demos of pes/we2010 have been on the marketplace for 3 weeks now is the so-called pes die hards from yesteryear claiming this is just the same game of old when its clear with practise and time that this year pes2010 is a much more balanced and fully rounded pes then any previous edition that adapts to the way you control the protaganists on the pitch much like its forebears iss and perfect striker on the n64 becoming better and more reactive to your own individual creativity and style of play.
Fifa10 is accessible it panders to a more mainstream gamer and while it may offer instantly gratifying gameplay that doesnt require a deeper knowledge of the game it contradicts the purity of football and this is why however many pes fans turn to fifa this year they will return in the months to come because pes2010 just is football.
Dopecoil Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 11:34 am
For people to say pes2010 is just pes2009 are obviously totally un-skilled at football games or cant do anything more then short pass,run at goal or use the through balls.Pes2010 is different its about angles,reading the danger not reacting to it and being creative and having vision,try playing it like real football and mix it up the only limit is your imagination.
Dopecoil Says:
October 14th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
bill dave Anonymous
Thats right boys time to realise what a opus game pes2010 is this year.If you cant defend you dont know how to defend,if your keepers making mistakes your not controlling your defence right and if you cant see all the game enhancing animations and that includes running which is almost a game in itself then there really is little hope for you naysayers.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
^ LMAO!!!
Man, you have got to be careful what you say online. Someone might actually be paying attention.
i know what he said because i was saying the opposite, specifying how disappointed i was with PES 2010 and how surprised i was by FIFA 09/10 ’s gameplay…
And myself, Will Martin, J, and Simon McDermott were slagged off to no end by Dopecoil (or one of his Aliases) and called FIFA FANBOYS
Seems to have changed his tune slightly…LOL
Oh, and i thought you could Edit the Net styles/colours in PES2010 Dopey….LOL
No seriously tho, i do agree with your points now, and am pleased you were big enough to admit that you were wrong in the first place
PES2010 vs FIFA10 debate
aka
George W. Bush vs John Kerry elections
This year its simply a case of which game is less sucky… FIFA10 is better but it doesn’t mean that it’s as great as everyone is making it out to be. PES is like a classic sportscar, its still a fun ride today but its hard to enjoy it when pieces keep falling apart. FIFA is like a lab prototype car fitted with all the extras/technology you can dream of but fails to capture the joy of driving.
If EA can manage to give some soul to it’s Tin-man, FIFA10, then many more may follow the yellow brick road away from the PES series.
But i still love my PES2010. :)
i cant understand why they dont put back star ratings for the teams so this would obviously stop people always picking barca or real madrid and the scenario game
also another thing is we need to make the game harder its too easy against al , some people say play on pro buts its just as easy and why was manual control removed i hate this semi assisted rubbish its not like the old manual control and the new manual control is rubbish no time to change player after you pass the ball
@ Lewis – agree with the star ratings, i think both FIFA and PES need this, to stop people choosing the best teams all the time… i personally try to play as poorer teams so it is more of a challenge, i beat someone who was playing as arsenal the other day, i was Huddersfield town, i won 4-1, and to my surprise they didnt disconnect.
Playing against Barca/Real/Chelski gets boring and repetetive after a while
PES AI is too easy to beat, and they dont attack enough, refs are awful, passing/shooting/crossing is all automated and too rigid, animations are like something from the sega megadrive, online is broken, and to top it all off, on PS3 the game crashes during the intro cut scene. Good effort eh Konami
New game engine is needed and complete overhaul of online and the animations
“and am pleased you were big enough to admit that you were wrong in the first place”
Just a shame he is not big enough to admit he was LYING in the first place!
pes2010 x fifa10 = two bad games….
pes2010:
very bad AI
no realistic: Gk, referee, speed, moviments… all very bad, very bad…
graphics cool, only…
pes on ps2 still much better gameplay and realistic…
fifa10: I don´t care, I playing in PC and FIFA10 in PC is a trash!
Shtoomer
Maybe you might want to put a little more energy into coming up with something thats actually intelligent rather then being a wise guy who thinks his columbo…….just a thought and you might want to consider that most of my so called comments where fabricated by others that frequent this site around that time.
Dave o
I never said just remake iss/perfect striker lock stock and barrel,all im suggesting is theres a framework to that series and controller interface that has still not been bettered in ten years but one that fifa10 borrows and copies heavily and has been very successfull for ea both in the hearts of gamers as well as the gaming press.Things that you and many others have scoffed at like a greater enthasis on player control and movement with the analog stick and more freedom in the choices you make with this and the degree of physical manipulation you have of the ball.Many of the requests by pes fans on this site and others request in pes things that where available and a option in the iss series on the n64.I hate to break it to you dave but iss/perfect striker did have 360 degree movement,passing and shooting and the option of a manual passing system which didnt weaken the individuality of the players it only enhanced the experience and was in fact more free and refined then even fifas system.My advise to you is as you have a jap ps2 is to get perfect striker 3 and go into the training area and just see how sophisticated and deep the controller set-up was and how beautifally animated the player movements are and how fluid and seamless this game is.Remeber i have also player we/pes now for ten years as well as still playing the series that
came before it so i can see the massive differences and the restrictive one dimensional limitations of pes.
@25 The Kaiser
A good point well made.
The main problem with PES10 is that it should have come out instead of PES08, so its 2 years behind schedule. It would have being a good game back then, but now its only OK.
Fifa has stepped up its game, but can still only make an OK game.
I still see FIFA as an online game and PES as an offline game. So it depends how you play the game to which you prefer.
dave o
Answer me this because for me henry shows know more individuality in pes2010 then he does in fifa10.What defines individuality in players is signature moves,tricks,height,balance,reaction and movement which are visual in a game.If you took away the graphics of henry in pes2010 you wouldnt even know it was him because like all of the other players in pes2010 there like lumps of wood with the same running animations and behaviors.
You and others talk about soul in pes,its a illusion of scripted contrived gameplay and the cpu weakening you or the opposition when your ahead or they are to balance the weaknessess in the limited amount of physical control you have of your player and the ball because the cpu has to control the direction of the ball because the players move on a invisible grid and are joined by invisible elastic there coded as a unit rather then individuals.From a coding point of view the pes engine is like the original dooms compared to something like havok used in halflife2 or halo3 its primitive and know amount of window dressing can disguise this.
.
1) What I would like to have included is for me to have an input as to how my players set themselves up in and around teh 18 yard box for corners.
I propose that in “Edit Team” mode there should be a function that enables you to position each of your players when corners are taken either from teh left or right.
For example it annoys me that currently when a corner is headed out by an oppsoition defender I cannot seem to ever have a player at hand on teh edge of the box who can pick up the loose ball with a first time shot that would no doubt cause disarray in the oppositions defence and put me back on the front foot.
Likewise it would be nice to be able to position my players when defending a corner, sort of like zonal marking, etc…
I think this would be a great addition to the game and I am presuming very easily implemented…
2) A second suggestion, and maybe this is just me but I find that much of the wording used on the game on the MENU page, etc has been very badly selected which sometimes makes it difficult to navigate around the game. I wonder if this is limited to the English version only or the same problem occurs in other languages?
3) “Edit Phrases” in online mode… What the hell ever happenned to that? I used to have so much fun playing with friends and editing teh phrases so that when I scored or they scored I could retort accordingly… Was a great feature that added a lot of fun… Bring ot back pleeeeeeeeease!
3)
Dopecil…
I come on here regularly and have to trawl through pages and pages of the most boring and arrogant postings from you. Enough!
So you prefer FIFA 10 we get it, great for you. No need to ram it down our throats each and every day with thousand word essays. I think I speak on behalf opf atleast 90% of the visitors on here when I say know one actually cares what you say… Having an opinion is one thing but boring people in to submission with your essays and never accepting anyone elses opinion is something very different.
Seriously, you need to get laid or something… There actually is more to life than football games. Can I suggest you turn your computer off, draw back the curtains, open a window, put your spliff down, take a shower, brush your hair, step out of your front door and embrace the world… You might be pleasantly suprised.
Let me know how you get on…
The truth is fifa10 is more like the real game which isnt as exciting as the zippy contrived pes which flatters the users ability with its assisted passing and shooting mechanics and totally unrealistic collision system.fifa10 on the other hand is more realistic and realism is not always more fun.For me realism is key now but thats not to say fifa10 has completely nailed it,ea are probably one game away from perfection though when pes is stuck in the last century.
Buster Gonads
No your right konami should listen to your ideas because youve covered everything thats wrong with pes.
**** gonads i couldnt see it,it was just a few menu tweaks that where needed and the option to change your phrases to taunt people online then the king would be back lol!!!!!!!
Thanks again Dopecil… Your insight and knowledge is unbelievable…
I for one am not a PES fan or a FIFA fan but a football fan, as PES has been the better football game since Sensible soccer l check out this website, as like every other game it eventually runs out of steam and this is whats happening with the series.
The games market needs fresh new football games bringing different ideas.
Buster Gonads
If i didnt comment there would only be abouut 16 comments on each article.IM THE MUSIC MAKER IM THE MAKER OF DREAMS.
@ Ockrass – Welcome to the blog. You make some good points, but not just for the sake of argument I want to point out that I disagree with you with regards to “bugs.”
The problem is that the term “bug” is really not very specific, and if there is one thing I think we as a community need to improve on it’s with being specific. General and unspecific commments aren’t nearly as helpful for Konami as specific ones are, in fact general comments are usually nothing more than complaints, with no constructive criticism or real suggestions attached to them. I know I sound like a jerk, but I say this assuming you really have some good points to make. However, when you say that PES is full of bugs, you need to be more specific than that. You mentioned collisions, and yes they should improve, but just this statement alone doesn’t tell me much, espcially since you seem to be suggesting the game is basically unplayable, whereas I play it every day and find little to seriously complain about it (I enjoy it for what it is). Also, with online I think you are overstating the case. Online has slowly gotten better each year, and after the patch the vast majority of people with good connections seem to be relatively happy with it. I would definitely say it is “decent” and I would also point out that it isn’t the only game in the world that has issues with lag (even COD MW2 has lag at times).
My final point is that I really disagree with the comment that PES 2010 is buggier than Fifa 10. I haven’t played Fifa 10 as much as some people have, but from everything I have read (and I read a lot of forums and blogs on thsi subject obviously) it is by far the glitchier and buggier game, especially with things like cheap goals. I will have to respond further once I have played more Fifa 10 (so I can be more specific) but I think that may be a while since I am really wrapped up in PES 2010 master league right now.
PS – Yes, I may be jumping to conclusions when I say that Fifa is buggier, but I’m just pointing out that I think you are the only person I have heard say that. Usually Fifa is described as a seriously bug-filled game this year, not to say PES doesn’t have it’s bugs, like some of the issues with keepers in particular, but I think it’s unfair to characterize Fifa as buggless and PES as bug-ridden since they both have bugs. I shodul also point out though that Konami have addressed most of their gameplay-related bugs via the patch, which I think has done a very good job (not perfect but I’m impressed with it).
PEACE
Dopecoil
While im not one to take sides i do know where your coming from in relation ISS on the n64 and its japanese counterpart.While you dont do youself many favours i do understand the point your trying to make and strongly agree and understand the effort you make in trying to get this series remade.I to experienced this series and can see the strong resemblance in fifa10 although fifa10 still fails to offer ISS free kick,set piece and aftertouch system that gave your more pin point accuracy and a even greater freedom.Whats sad is how the core beauty of this series remains untapped by konami to this day when its clear to even the most ardent pes fan things need to change and konami could do alot worse then taking a look in ISS64 direction.
Dave o
Maybe you should open your mind a bit more and listen to others as you to can be opinionated and arrogant.The bugs you talk of in fifa10 only exist in MM mode as many of the bugs of fifa09 do not now exist in fifa10 so take a closer look as you may well be pleasently suprised and find your beloved arsenal are more realistically realised in fifa10.
Hey Dave O,
Read some of the problems i described and then watch this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuyU_8QDz_c
Guys leave Dopecoil alone you F*****ng fifa fanboys and go to your sites to talk about your fifa manager mode with 71 bugs admitted from all users.Next year we hope that PES would be much better and don’t make fun of us because your time is ending soon….suckers
Dopecil… Youre clearly a virgin, so I will sympathise with you…
Dopecoil 9
Watched your videos and didnt realise this game existed on the ps2.Your some games player showing theres more to you then just fancy talk as you actually back it up with a demonstration of goals that take genuine skill as these games by konami would take years of play to do the things you do with the ball unlike pes which gives you the same result but without the application or neccessity to be able to really understand the dynamics of football.The goal where you push the ball away from you to the side just demonstrates a richer control set as do the others.Im not going to pamper your ego by saying your wright but your not misguided or wrong.
Dopecoil
Isnt dopecoil a anagram for the name of the lead ai and animation engineer on the ISS series?
I have to laught sometimes… This site is awesome. That’s all I’ll say.
Ockrass, I’m at work on my break right now and can’t watch youtube, but I’ll check it out later and get back to you. As for Fifa 10, I admit I need to play it more, but it seems like the general response of the community is that the game is great at first, but lacks depth and is full of bugs. I honestly need to play it more for myself to see if this is true, but the general reviews I’ve read and the 10-20 or so games of it I have played just don’t leave me wanting to be arsed to waste my time with it any more. Yes, Arsenal are well represented (kits I mean), but not in terms of player individuality, likenesses, or even gameplay from what I have seen (btw – there is a pretty amazing video of someone playing in the Arsenal style on PES 2010 in the forums, but I can’t find it at the moment).
Anyway…
I would like to open up a question maybe for one of the bloggers to discuss which relates to what I think the future of PES should be. Simply put, I am suggetsing that Fifa should continue to develop their game as a simulation of what it’s like to play the game (via numerous innovations in manual controls) while PES diverges and creates a simulation of the “world of football.” i.e. more of a management game.
Gameplay is #1 to me, though, don’t get me wrong, and in fact I was also going to suggest that PES begins to improve their game in terms of manual control, but only in ways which do not take away from player individuality. In fact, my overall vision of the future of the game is very gameplay oriented, but also aiming to create a very accurate simulation of what the real game looks and feels like – albeit at the expense of a bit of manual control…
So, what I’m saying is that I want to see a lot more individual animations and moves, but the important question is, how do we pull off these movements?
My idea came from watching football on TV and realizing, like many of you have, that ultimately there is absolutely no way that a game can offer us the ability to do all of the things that you see in a real match. The example I will use is turns. Having played footy for over 15 years I could easily show you at least 20 if not hundreds of ways to turn with the ball (let’s say even just a 180 degree turn). For example, you could step on the ball and then turn around, step over the ball and turn, run past the ball and kick it with your heel then run around the side, flick it up then turn, do a 180 roulette, etc, etc, etc. Ultimately though, there is no way that all of the little nuinces and different versions of things like this could be user-controlled. If it could, it would even be maybe too difficult to pull off and ultimately since most of these animations are just stylistic and only some gain you an actual advantage one would have to wonder if the player would even use them. Even as it is, PES has a tonne of turning animations that most people, from what I can tell, don’t use. Yes, they’re cool, and it’s awesome if you can pull them off, but sometimes I get the feeling that they are more difficult to pull off than they would be in real life, simply due to limitations in the controller itself.
Anyway, I’m just throwing this idea out there so take it easy… I admit it might be a bad one, but what if more of these individual animations were more CPU determined based on your player, abilities, the specific circumstance, and also on elements of chance which are determined by all of the above? Chance is needed because I don’t want it to mean that Gerrard always does x turn in this situation, and Crouch does this. In real life C.Ronaldo doesn’t always stepover when he turns (well, maybe almost always), but you see what I’m saying. Ultimately it seems to me that some element of chance in needed in these games in order to make them more varied and realistic. This is part of the problem with Fifa, in that although it has some good animations, they begin to suck the realism out of the game when you see them over and over and over again and when all the players have basically the same moves and abilities.
Again, guys, just a suggestion, but as always I’m open to anyones thoughts on this. Do you really think it would be a bad thing if sometimes when you shoot the ball it has a cool-looking animation and other times maybe not? Or would it add a level of realism while not sacrificing the essential gameplay, which ultimately does have a lot to do with what player you are using? My opinion is that if it was executed really, really well, that I would love to play a game like this, and that in the end watching it on and HD TV might look very very close to a real game. Also, it woudl obviously add a lot more to the management side of the game if it meant that the players you use has even more of an effect on gameplay.
Picked up PES2010 again last night after some months of neglect (too many great games around at the moment).
First, Dave O, apologies, I now notice the improvements made by the patch. Still, I don’t think the refs have improved, but, there is definitely an improvement to the overall feel and control elements of the game.
As far as improvements go, I would like to see true 360 control, player and ball control. Obviously animations would have to be vastly improved, not with regard to design, but, in terms of number. I believe this would resolve the sometimes clumsy feel. Dopecoil, please don’t bother pointing me to an ISS youtube link, I don’t care and I know what 360 movement means (the clues in the name)!
I may be in a majority of one here, but, I wouldn’t do much to the goalkeepers. Again, most would not agree, but, on the occasions that I do end up shouting at the screen because my goalkeeper has committed a ’shtoomer’, only gives the game more of a natural feel anyway.
In game penalty camera! WHY CHANGE IT? PUT IT BACK!
The referees a W@nker! Need I say more? A good advantage system is desperately need (even in real football at the moment).
Player runs, something that FIFA has got right, you should be able to set a player off on a run, seems odd that this has not been implemented yet.
I think PES2010 (patched) is certainly getting there and for me, if the above mentioned was sorted for 2011, I’d probably be happy enough.
Oh well, Mass Effect 2 on Friday, more PES2010 neglect on the cards. Oh and Dopecoil, don’t tell me that you’ve had Mass Effect 2 for two weeks now (hell you probably worked on it)and it’s the best game ever, you can even edit the nets! Bless.
Two digs at me in one blogg,you dont need my link to see 360 movement because most are experiencing it already in fifa10 my link was to show that konami could once produce half descent animation and games without bugs and flaws and proper player control unlike the last ten years.
Your a proper little fire cracker arent you JUST dont our hopes on mass effect2 Though.Strange your ideas are hardly original and a year late and where covered 12 months ago.
You can change your name but the same smug prick cant help but come out can he LOSER!!!!!!
LOL! Who are we today? You are schizo’ sunshine!
Please no forgeto to add CUSTOMIZED NETS!
soxnsandels 51
NO,i just had to try a little harder because my dig on a earlier post regarding WENB didnt get you from under your shell but the last hit its target.So here you are whats the matter your dictatorship grip slipping on WENB or are you worried im poisoning the community with my talk of ISS might mean you never get your we8 HD.
I dont think it matters either way the ball is well and truly in the ea court now konami missed the boat 4 years ago and are now paying for it.
Between me and you the winners on the podium at the moment for this year and probably the next so i suggest you get your review ready and lots of excuses for konami for your members.
On second thought, maybe the suggestions I’m making aren’t the answer. My point here though is simply that I would like to see more random animations. People talk a lot about “robotic” animations, but part of this is because of the actual user interface. There is always going to be a trade off between precise control and the game’s ability to represent the game the way it really looks on TV or in real life.
I guess I don’t really know what the answer is, but more random animations would be nice. For example, if I take a player into practice mode and run back and forth, just with simple inputs on the controller, I would like to see some more variety in what happens. In real life if a player does this there is inevitably a lot of variation in the movement and what happens. Now, a huge part of this and what PES and Fifa both need to do in the future is to free up the ball animations even more. I think some of the new engines like euphoria might be the answer to this, but essentially what I’m asking to see is a much much bigger variety of animations depending on what the ball does. If the ball bobbles or is at different heights I want to see a lot of different animation/reactions from players, and it needs to seem much less canned than in either PES or Fifa. Personally I don’t mind if this means that when I take a touch with a certain player that they choose to chip it up into the air, if that’s the best way to control it, or if they make a poor touch because I’m using a player with less skill. That’s what I want the game to be about, like SOx says when the keeper makes an error that can be a good thing, and I think the same shoudl go for players a bit more that it does in the current game.
I don’t know if I’m getting my point across, but I think this general concept is something which Fifa does better at the moment, but somehow with less variety than even what PES does, so again it’s not just about nice looking animations, it’s about variety, ball physics, and a much needed injection of randomness and player individuality.
That sounds like a tall order, but I think that’s what Konami needs to aim for for 2011 and beyond.
PEACE
Keeping with keepers for the mo, does it infuriate you too, when your Defence AI goes into headless chicken mode should the ball land somewhere near the 6 yard box ?
I have had countless own goals, both against AND in my favour because the defence and keeper cannot deal with even the slowest of trickling shots. They forever stumble over each other, block each other, won’t clear it and most of all the keeper normally stands there and watches the defender bounce the ball uncontrollably off of their shin and into the goal ! SO MANY TIMES that has happened and ALWAYS because of the AI, because i am never in control of the players in that situation.
Hilariously last night, (i wish i could have recorded it), the CPU defender chased a loose ball back into his own area, and the AI couldn’t decide to control him or the keeper ( they were the only 2 players in the box ). The ball got to about 8 yards out and the AI chose to let the keeper deal with it but the defender didn’t stop running. The keeper attempted to blast the loose ball upfield, when he was entitled to pick it up because it had left my boot, not the defender’s. He blasted the ball directly into the defenders face from about 5 or 6 yards out and it ricocheted off the defender’s face and into the back of the net 1-0 to me. What makes it all the more frustrating and ridiculous is that was the final score. SO many games i win thru no input of my own like that. I may as well be watching the matches, rather than playing them.
Sorting out the keepers and, of course, the WORST referees ever to grace a PES game, is surely a serious priority ? Are they listening to us ? These two issues have no doubt been THE most complained about things since release. Is it going to be fixed? It is crazy to ignore this, because people are starting to tune out. They really won’t buy 2011 because they are starting to get sick & tired of these small, simple but GAME-BREAKING flaws !
I try to keep playing 2010 but i have to have long periods of time between sessions, like many of you i think, because it goes from the first couple of games in “Hey this is actually quite action packed and fun” to 5 or 6 games in where it has suddenly become a tiresome grind with seemingly nothing you do affects the outcome too much.
Like many have stated:
Ridiculous passing decisions. A perfect opportunity for a break and your player inexplicably decides on passing it backwards! ect..
Moronic Keepers who cannot command thier area except on corners and really hate soft shots from a 45degree angle for some reason :S Spillorama !
Refs who HATE YOU. Playing a league at the moment. This is not a lie. I’m not talking just penalties here, i am talking fouls. 1 foul in a 12 game stretch in my favour…WTF ? But plenty of irrational red cards for my guys
(PS3 version) Randomly, the game inexplicably FREEZES during the entrance scene, either in the tunnel or with the camera panning the pitch just before the emblems come up. With absolutely no warning. Worst of all, there is nothing you can do because it doesn’t just freeze the game, but freezes the entire PS3! All you can do is reset the machine manually, which i have read is never a good thing to do.
Defending in the area comes down to hammering away at the “clear” button because no one in your defence dares control the ball inside the box, opting to turn as sluggishly as possible into oncoming attackers and losing possession yards from goal.
I don’t mind the “delay” or sluggish controls anywhere on the pitch, as i feel they don’t really interfere too much, but when you concede stupid goals in the area due to lack of control given to you by the AI it is somewhat disheartening.
Still so much scripting. CPU will do what it does for a while and then the game will decide it’s time for the CPU to have a shot. Cut to a minute of you not getting a sniff of the ball whilst Montenegro ping passes around like a football version of the Harlem Globetrotters and then it’s pot luck if you concede a goal from that attack.
You really CAN tell when the CPU is going to score or not. We all have experienced this for so long now we can literally SEE it coming before it happens. CPU never seizes a chance to attack…ever! It just plods around pass, pass, pass, around midfield for a while then after a while the game scripts one of those attacks. You never feel like the CPU wants to attack you like it is supposed to. Almost as if it begrudgingly goes forward when the AI dictates!
Skill levels are wildly unbalanced. Easy to Normal = pointless exercise. Pro + Top Player = frustrating, unfair and not enjoyable.
Despite the pretty textures and lighting, the stadia are sadly devoid of soul. It is something that most people wouldn’t really care too much about, but the main part of what makes the atmosphere at a football ground is what is going on in the ground itself! PES teams may as well be playing behind closed doors. The crowd is terrible. They should be animated to be moving around ALL the time, hands waving, pointing ect… The cardboard cut-out stewards, the cameramen only ever pointing thier camera in one direction, never following the game. The same bench of subs for EVERY team. Why is the subs bench almost empty !? I have never seen that in real life. It is usually teeming with people! They should have people walking about along the sidelines, police, stewards ect… substitutes warming up. Bring it to LIFE please !
The commentary is just embarrassing now. It used to be fun, PES always did bad commentary ( The wind is shooting through the stadium ! ), that was even part of it’s charm. But now it’s so archaic. The script is awful. Lawrensen obviously doesn’t really want to be there so PLEASE get rid of him, he is the worst co-commentator that has ever been in the game. The main guy is pretty good ( i forget his name! ), really sounds like he is getting into it, but all his good work goes to waste when the script and absolute minimal amount of samples are used Even to the point where the sample ends before his sentence does !!! Terrible, truly terrible !
Ball physics are still not up to PS2 standards. It still does that weird thing where, if it’s passed forwards, it kind of animates as if it’s rolling BACKwards for a bit, if you get my meaning? Very much like that “Bowling Ball” physics complaint i have seen on some threads before.
PS3 version has an awful framerate issue when it comes to replay mode. When you can control the camera in replay, it stutters and skips. It’s horrible ! You score a greta goal and the replay framerate makes it unpleasant to watch again
Not one satisfying camera angle in the game, lol. Why did tilt go ? Why can we not have a manual camera ?
Even the editing, which is actually pretty good is STILL not as good as the PS2 versions were!? Missing so much stuff and the face import is still absolutely useless.
ok…i could go on for ages. And sorry yep, i know so many people have listed these things before, but this is my impression of the game. All the flaws! That’s what i think of, when i think of PES2010 ! There are lots of GOOD things about 2010. But the things i listed above really, sadly, outweigh the good
I loved this game when i first got it. Either didn’t see what was wrong or desperately forgave the game it’s flaws because i really wanted it to be a return to form at long last. Now it only ever seems to enduce a “meh” from me.
It’s not awful, not by a long way, but it IS broken. Worst of all, it could be fixed surely? Such simple things would give this game a real new lease of life, but we have no word from Konami that this kind of thing is going to happen. I hope it does, i really do.
After 2 weeks i’d give it 8.5 out of 10
After 2 months or so, i’d give it 5 out of 10
Harsh i know, lol.
If a patch fixed the keepers & refs i’d easily change my score again to 8.5
I am fed up play it now , I don’t want to play with on rails passing , poor AI , getting taken off on automated runs at the drop of the cpu’s hat.
The base gameplay was fine up to PES6 , PES7 at a push but even then the gameplay = passing , AI , animation was starting to look dated then. I put up with from PES7 onwards because it was going to Evolve and out of that Evolution would come this new and wonderful game. With freedom of movement , free flowing play with players making runs and players in support of you, where passing the ball , where it went and how far and in what direction was down to you.
But alas , bottom line , “Great” new graphics apart , its the same tired old gameplay under the bright new all be it beautiful coat of paint.
Ps .. And this is from someone who played PES from PES3 on the PC 7 days a week 365 days a year from anywhere from 4 to 9 – 10 hours a day.
Break the chains Konami and if you can’t do it , get people into help you do it.
360 movement , manual passing shooting from the default buttons , so i am in control of where the ball goes and how far. Give us organic flowing movement and AI that has players moving with you and that don’t run back into there starting line up position as soon as they have passed the ball on or I or another team mate has the ball knocked away from them.
The Words for PES2011 … BREAK THE CHAINS !.
“NO,i just had to try a little harder because my dig on a earlier post regarding WENB didnt get you from under your shell but the last hit its target.So here you are whats the matter your dictatorship grip slipping on WENB or are you worried im poisoning the community with my talk of ISS might mean you never get your we8 HD.”
I think you may have me mixed up with someone else.
Paranoia is one of the symptoms shown in schizophrenia sufferers! Bless.
@43 Ockrass – what was I supposed to get out of that video? All I noticed was some lag, and 8 minutes of two guys who suck at the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joPtsmyffKs&feature=player_embedded#
Aresenal Style.
Not me by the way ;)
How to get a perfect PES
1) Drop PES2011
2) fix PES 2010 and release it for free ( via update )
3) work for 2 years on gameplay for PES 2012
4) Give information of progress for every 10 days
5) have a organized fan’s suggestion consideration
6) work only for PC, PS3 and Xbox first, once they hit, then start for PS2, PSP, Wii,etc
7) Make Kitserver thing official and direct kit import for consoles
i second that, and first it a few posts back
Well for me, both PES10 and FIFA10 are clearly outdated. So considering that, I don’t really care which one is the better game; it’s irrelevant.
I see no relation between technical ability and tactical ability, and for me it is impossible to have a realistic simulation without that essential technique-tactic relation.
Both PES10 and FIFA10 are shallow and superficial games, what we consider “skill” revolves around breaking an obvious game-play pattern or concept.
This necessity of having to pass the ball just so we can create off-the-ball runs, the old “pass and tap R2″ play that we all know too well.
Not even EA, with their R1 “attacking run” button and fancy dribbling skills -can- cover the fact that FIFA10 haves little to no depth in terms of off-the-ball play.
And what makes it worst is that we get to play these “simulation” games from a wide-view perspective. Therefore every movement off-the-ball is painfully obvious; defending is just a matter of running after the player with the ball, or covering the passing lane that you should cover, etc.
So the main question is, how can EA and Konami achieve fun but realistic midfield battles?
The first idea to be scrapped is the idea of “manually” controlling a player´s off-the-ball movement when in possession of the ball.
It would not be fun nor realistic, and would only work to enhance the already magnificent one-dimensional factor.
So how can Konami achieve a fun but unpredictable concept for off-the-ball play?
How can we force a reaction from the opponent without having to pass the ball or dribble with the ball?
I have a pretty clear idea of how off-the-ball play could complement with on-the-ball play, without it being obvious or predictable; in other words boring and requiring no skills at all.
So to begin explaining what I have in mind, here is a quick explanation:
* Either Carles Puyol or Yaya Toure or Gerard Pique has the ball.
* Xavi Hernandez goes down to his own half to start an attack from the back; like Barcelona usually plays.
If I’m playing PES10 and I’m using Barcelona FC — How can I consciously decide to have Xavi Hernandez come all the way down to his own half to look for the ball?
This cannot be considered counter-attacking football, because in fact the only players that have that freedom of breaking the mold are either Xavi or Iniesta. So again, how can I consciously decide via a button to:
* Have Xavi Hernandez run all the way down to his half to look for the ball.
* Have Xavi Hernandez posted-up near the penalty area.
* In a one-two play, decide to position Xavi (or Iniesta) to your right; so that the return-pass goes to your left.
* Have Iniesta run all the way down to his own half, so that he can start the move; instead of Xavi.
Neither in PES10 or FIFA10 can we do this… And why is it so important? Because Football is 50% Tactical and 50% Technical.
Quick explanation: Riquelme can be a “lazy” player because he haves the technical ability to make up for whatever flaws he may have off-the-ball.
Riquelme is not a fast player, haves an incredible passing range, and great technique — so he is economic and intelligent with his off-the-ball movement; deceivingly “lazy” but always in the right place at the right time for that final through ball.
He will never be a “box to box” player like Steven Gerrard or (in his time) Pavel Nedved -because- he haves a different set of abilities and his tactical-philosophy is designed to make the best of those abilities.
The tactical and technical abilities of every individual determine how each team functions; tactical systems can only make the best out of those abilities.
So in this respect, two things stand out: how the player moves off-the-ball, and how good the player is at moving without the ball.
Therefore it is absolutely necessary for the off-the-ball movement to be completely “automatic” when in possession of the ball.
And as a result, it would also be necessary to implement new and more specific STATS to determine: how each individual will “automatically” decide to move in every possible situation, and how good that individual is at moving in each particular situation.
Such an “automatic” off-the-ball concept would still be one-dimensional. So to really add that all important depth… it would be necessary to have on-the-fly controls for off-the-ball play.
So that, for example, if I’m playing PES 2012 and I’m using Barcelona FC:
* If I have Carles Puyol with the ball, I can hold the R1 button and tap the (x) button, and by doing so I would dictate an of-the-ball action without having to pass the ball or dribble with the ball.
* As a result of holding the R1 button and tapping the (x) button: Xavi Hernandez or Iniesta would come down to ask for the ball, and start an attack from the back.
* If Gerard Pique has the ball, by holding the R1 button and Double Tapping the (o) button; you would instruct your target man to prepare himself for a Long Ball play.
Therefore I would effectively force a response or reaction from my opponent without the need of predictable foreplay…
Each individual would have a particular tactical awareness and a particular tactical approach, and consequently, it will be harder to read what the opponent is trying to do.
Of course, a player with average tactical ability would make everything look obvious; therefore giving tactical ability a new level of depth and importance in-game.
How we use each individual’s tactical ability — that would require real “skills” from our part: thinking and timing skills.
So essentially, it would be an “automatic” off-the-ball concept, which would give us the power of dictating the most decisive areas; how we play with time and space.
On the other hand, defensive off-the-ball play would have to be more technical; similar to dribbling with the ball, because we have to “manually” control at least one player. Although of course, the other nine players on the pitch would move automatically; so defensive awareness would also play an important part.
And because each individual would have a particular tactical approach, a particular relation between his tactical and technical qualities; it would be harder to read the game.
Therefore, defending would be just as entertaining as attacking; instead of the one-dimensional procedure that it currently is.
Now, for such a concept to function properly, I think it would be necessary to slow the gameplay down to a more realistic pace — we need enough time to think and actually play something similar to real football.
I wanted to be more specific and insightful with what I tried to explain, I have left many things uncovered, which I will gladly explain later… but it’s getting late and I’m tired; hopefully someone will understand where I’m coming from.
Bottom Line — Konami needs to replace the current off-the-ball concept, they need to open-up the game in the most essential and decisive areas of football.
And only after building and designing proper foundations, should they start implementing a new engine for animations, graphics, etc, etc.
@Dave O,
In the vid link i sent 2:56, 4:30, 4:36, 5:34, and 6:59 are some instances that all show the horrible collisions i was refferring to which includes clearances. And you are correct, the guys do suck…they both seem to prefer speed over passing. Just look at Messi tear the turf up.
I watched the vid you sent …pretty fast gameplay with a lot of offside goals. It only showed goals, i was more talking about collisions.
Jaymez also posted his experiences which are quite similar to the ones i am trying to explain but in more details. He has also expressed his frustration (constructively) and clearly had more that could have been added.
I do understand where you are coming from with regards to the improvements needed in animations. I had started a thread on PESFAN that got some attention titled.. “How Close to Realism” which i basically highlighted some of the very same points you make here. No matter how improved the animations are, we will never experience true to life animations on any format.
However, I believe that the new animations implemented by Konami on this title has backfired. The turns are way to slow, the players tend to take an extra touch when you intend to get the ball away in a hurry. The animations itself aren’t extremely bad, but they are executed poorly. Tricks are almost non existent in this title (unless you are Messi CRonaldo. For instance, when i am on the training ground the controls, passing and turns look good, but in the matches they become a nuisance.
I see where you have at least acknowledge that the animations in Fifa are somewhat ok. Although still not perfect (not possible) it is a cut above PES’s animaitons.
I do not want to post any Fifa vids here..but maybe you could take a look at the gameplay on youtube and look at the collisions on their title.
PEACE
Just wanted to briefly elaborate on Post 62.
As it is clearly explained, or at least how I tried to explain it:
* by holding the R1 button and taping (or double tapping) any of the 4 buttons + giving a specific direction with the analogue.
* we would dictate “automatic” off-the-ball movement, having the power of deciding between many different particular possibilities; whenever we feel we should use them.
The brand of football each team plays, would be highly determined by a series (not specified yet) of off-the-ball stats and tendencies.
And logically, the concept would differ depending on the player. As for example, if Xavi Hernandez haves the ball, he is the playmaker; therefore his tactical controls will offer different options.
I feel it’s important to reiterate that: these tactical plays would be on-the-fly or in other words “organic”, you could easily dictate three different tactical actions in just ONE play.
How we create opportunities would have a lot to do with how we mix technical actions with tactical actions: timing the tactical play with enough time, timing the pass at the right time, etc, etc.
And of course, because the game would be slower and more realistic; we would get to see and feel a clear transition play after play. Hopefully giving way to an unpredictable and “organic” experience; similar to real-football.
Again, I still have a lot to explain, etc, etc. I just wanted to briefly elaborate on Post 62.
^ Good Suggestion. And this would incorporate well with the new “Card System” in PES.
Side Note: Can’t stop laughing at the comments. Man, I love this site. VIVA FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
i think comments from mr. 62 are somewaht there with PES card system this year.
I suggest that field of vision be shown brighter whereas the sides tow hich ur player cannot see to be blurred or haze like .
So depending upon the ability of vision of a player he will have a more all round look of the pitch rather than one with not.
For eg, a striker for sure lacks the vision of playmaker like Zidane. Therefore some one like trezeguet cannot do a zizou pass to break attack, because he cannot form a lear picture of the players position on pitch whereas zizou can.
I hope this topic starts a fruitful new direction than mere off ball runs and manual things.
OCKRASS,GREENMACHINE,JAYMEZ,DOPECOIL
Your all bang on in regard to whats wrong with pes now and since its ps2 days and honest unlike the rest of the people on here that are clearly in denial and cant see whats right under there noses.
The answer is simple let GREYHOUND produce the next pes this guy was the producer of ISS and is a visionary guy who understands how a game should be but also the dynamics of football.
Seabass created the pes engine back on the ps2 and he cant let it go instead trying to tweak and fix a engine that been broken for ten years.The problems with pes root back to the engine and this is where the changes need to come from.
soxandsandels
What a foul mouthed idiot you are maybe your the one with the mental condition.
@ AKU, Post 66
I don’t understand what you are trying to say… You are talking about vision.
But in Post 62 I was talking about something much more important, off-the-ball play, which is something that although conditioned by vision or passing ability; it’s a completely different thing.
Make no mistake about it, PES10 does not offers the things that I explained in Post 62. I watch football on a regular basis, I have watched a lot of football; trust me, I would not waste my time on something that the “cards” already do.
Zinedine Zidane had great technique, therefore he could play ridiculously close to the opposition because he had the technique to get out of tight corners.
On the other hand, players like Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard -need- to practice a certain distance between themselves and the opponent, they need to play the ball faster, they need to cover more distance, etc, etc.
Therefore, players like Zinedine Zidane or Roman Riquelme should automatically move differently to a player like Steven Gerrard.
This relation between technique and tactic is non-existent in PES10 and FIFA10. And it is because of it that these simulation games do not improve as much as one would like.
Now one the many things that’s wrong with the current off-the-ball system is that we don’t have enough player individuality in terms of tactical ability and tactical approach.
The level of depth in off-the-ball movement is very poor; as can be appreciated by simply playing the game and noticing that off-the-ball play requires absolutely NO skills at all.
I agree that a card for vision could work decently; although it’s not necessary at all. I think it’s a matter of simply replacing the old Passing Stats with new and more specific Stats for Passing Ability.
So yes, I do agree that passing needs more depth -BUT- please read Post 62 again and explain to me how the cards already cover for such an essential aspect of football.
amateur
With all due respect your kind of missing the point because the changes you talk about are impossible to implement into the simple game engine that cannot cope or handle modern next gen ai routines its just to inadequate.This whole exercise on the next gen formats from konami has been a cost saving exercise,recycling a flawed engine onto powerful consoles hoping sooner or later somethings sticks.
Everything we see in pes2010 all the frustrations are the result of bad planning and konami failing to create a modern gaming engine 4 years ago and now there paying the price.
The Truth (Dopecoil, Keiron) whoever you are deciding to post as today!
You wouldn’t know the truth if it ran up and bit you on the arse!
Grow up.
soxnsandels
Im dopecoil,keiron,son your the one that needs help.People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones or label others with problems that exist in there own minds.
Good day.
OK Mr Warren
soxnsandels
You really are disturbed and show some very worrying signs.So whats your beef with dopecoil then at least this guy has something to say in relation to pes not stabs and insults and its more then obvious you created this keiron thing.
He really frightens you dopecoil with his comments,is it because he remembers a time when konami done it better then pes and sees a possible way forward.I suggest you keep on topic you have no influence on this site and your demonstrating a real ugly side to your nature.
Again good day.
Right on Mr Warren
soxnsandels
You can charm the birds out of the trees when you want but today your showing your inner turmoil.I sympathise i really do guilt and bitterness does tend to manisfest into strange outbursts.
I suggest you work at the problems in your life maybe look for some fresh challenges and things to fill your time,then, just then you may find happyness in your life.
soxnsandels
Maybe i could act as a mediator for you and this mr warren you seem so fond of because theres obviously unresolved issues there for you.This mr warren sounds interesting and has cetainly captivated your imagination and down time.Rejection is a funny thing some just cant handle it or take a inward look at the way they treat others believing instead that they are without fault when they often cast the first stone.
Again good luck and i hope you resolve your internal issues with mr warren.
Thanks Mr Warren
soxnsandels
For a man with such a big speech yesterday you have very little to say.
soxnsandels
Id love to carry this on i can be dopecoil,mr warren whoever you want but when you turn away from your pc its going to be the same life for you that was there before you signed in.Maybe if you where a little less pig headed and stubborn history may have taken a different turn but as the saying goes”its a long road and theres no turning back”.I suggest in future you save money on txt costs and find another outlet for your warped sense of reality.
Now we will say no more on the matter OK!
Ockrass – Thanks, just wanted to clarify. Again, sorry if I come off like a jerk sometimes, but there are a lot of biased and unopen people around these forums and so my responses are sometimes over-aggressive.
And yes, I agree about the collisions, and that Fifa has them better. Unlike dribbling animations I think this is an area Konami can really improve on more easily, because it’s essentially a bit less complex. I think they are capable of that.
As for dribbling again though, I should point out that the main problem is that the ball seems to follow the player (in front of him of course) as opposed to vice-versa. In my opinion, what needs to change in order to advance both games is to somehow make it so that the ball and it’s animations are entirely independent of the player. This is extremely difficult to achieve, but in the end it would be a major revolution if either company could pull it off properly. Fifa does it a bit, but IMO it’s too canned, and PES in comparison is really poor in this area at the moment. By this I don’t mean, by the way, that the player isn’t glued to the ball, I just mean that the ball has a mind of it’s own, and the player must do their best to react to it, as opposed to the ball seeming to react to the player, if that makes any sense. Watch a bit of real footy and try to notice what the difference is between what you’re watching and either of these games. The first thing you’ll notice is that “dribbling” as it appears in PES almost doesn’t even exist in real life. Yes, there is tight controlled running with the ball at times, but for most movements what is really happening is a series of small kicks/touches. If they made the ball more separate from the player animations this might be acheiveable, not sure though…
@ THE TRUTH, Post 69
Perhaps you are correct, although it doesn’t really concerns me if you are correct.
Regardless of what you may consider a fact, I just wanted to briefly explain how (in my opinion) off-the-ball play should be interpreted.
You should know that both PES10 and FIFA10 are old games with old concepts. And stating the obvious, like for example, saying that this and that would not work because the current engine is too one-dimensional…
Well, it doesn’t really gives us anything useful does it?
I mean, I am fully aware of the fact that both PES10 and FIFA10 are old and polished turds -but- I’m just trying to give some feedback here.
I do agree with you I guess, but I just don’t see anything useful nor interesting about simply stating the obvious.
It’s so funny when dope pretends to be other people
j
Welcome back i thought your nasty sinister tone had returned to this site.
Dave O
Who cares we just want better animations and a game thats finished and not riddled with flaws.Maybe that would be a good starting point konami actually finishing a game for the first time in ten years that isnt broken.
Your points are valid though so dont take this the wrong way i just feel that konami should get the basics right and then build from there with some continuity.Everyone makes excuses when other genres are way ahead and more complex,football games arent as sophisticated as some claim nor is football a complex sport its just about getting the foundation right.
Dave O
Sorry mate i forgot to say its not just animations its the automated one-twos,broken ai rountines,glitchy player movement,lack of a free flowing passing system,the horrible one-dimensional free-kick and set piece system.I could go on and on and have but these problems have plaqued pes now for ten years.Would it really be that hard for konami to produce a balanced ai system where defenders actually had a brain and players made darting runs into space flooding your senses with options and a control interface that allows you to execute some kind of consistent ball placement on the pitch.
As you like Mr Warren
soxnsandels
Whats the matter j your brain fallen out.You used to be full of it insulting people and generally being abusive,what,did jacob marly visit you this christmas and youve turned over a new leaf being kind to tiny tim and your fellow man.Or have you had a good hiding from someone because your mouth went to far in a bar and your guns where not quite as big as your ego.
The main area that PES needs to improve and I’ve been saying it for years, is the scripting and general computer interference. When the computer has decided you have been doing too well recently and turns all opposition players into Zidane and all your players into non league players. When the computer interferes with my players and my control. Not letting me run, not letting me turn, slowing my player just as I was about to intercept a pass etc.
I know why it does it. The AI can’t offer up a good enough game against skilled human players without ‘cheating’. So really the biggest problem is making the AI clever enough to compete with humans without cheating.
All other issues pale into insignificance to this. PES would be amazing, just with this change. (Difficult to implement I know)
None of the above. Bless.
@ Duffman, Post 88
Fully agree. That is peprhaps, the key flaw that is holding PES and FIFA back.
And I fail to understand why some people think that by simply adding great-looking animations and finishing the game properly -that- it won’t have all these flaws anymore.
People like Dave O (with all due respect) need to move on and start considering the somewhat “far out” ideas that cannot work with the current/outdated core gameplay mechanics.
The current system is old, and no matter how smooth and good-looking the animations could be… it will not really touch on the key issue, which is that the balance between what the COM controls and what the HUMAN controls is badly engineered; and in need of a replacement.
@ Duffman, Post 88
Forgot to mention — it is impossible to make the COM/AI clever enough under the current time restrictions.
These “simulation” games are meant to be played for 10 minutes. Therefore the AI needs to be obviously stupid and repetitive: making the game very easy to read.
So that, what we consider “skill” revolves around reading and breaking the repetitive gameplay mechanics. It’s not football; it’s something very different.
If the AI is to ever improve significantly, the pace of the game will need to be slower, the game longer; but with a lot more substance backing the core gameplay mechanics.
lol
Amateur, what kind of game length do you expect would be needed? Would it make a season very difficult to complete?
For the record I totally disagree with the claim that the AI “cheats” in PES. Personally, my biggest problem this year and last is that the game’s not hard enough, and what some people choose to interpret as cheating I see as a good thing. I think people who say this are not good enough at the game to appreciate the AI challenge. I know that obviously the AI could be much better, in other words their ability to press/attack should be less obvious at times, but I simply don’t believe the unprovable claim that stats get boosted. It’s a fact that players with high mentality on your own team get a stats boost late in the game, but that goes for your team as well.
My proof for this opinion about the cheating not being real is simply my own playing experience, so I don’t care what others think. I just laugh though every time I hear people talking about cheating as if it’s the biggest problem with the game. I think at some level I would agree with them entirely in terms of what they envision as how the AI should be different, but I also know that it would be very difficult to achieve and I think calling it cheating is just inaccurate. Call it whatever you want, but if you’re good enough at the game you will appreciate it, that’s my point.
Also, if it’s cheating why, late in games when a good side like Man U is pressing (i.e. “cheating”) does Rooney miss a wide open net? I would think cheating AI could get that right. No, it’s actually what happens in real games, the last 10 mins of some games can be crazy, but I for one think they haven’t done a bad job of it, considering how bad it could be and the limitations of, well, games in general.
Due to the fact PS3 online doesn’t work, even after 3 years just traded pes 2010 and got £5.
I’M DELIGHTED
@ Dave O, Post 93
I think the game should be designed for (at the very least) 10 minute per half or 20 minute per half matches.
However one thing is certain: what’s the fun of going in circles? Tweaking and re-tweaking the same old concept is only convenient for Konami and EA.
Think about it, how many new features can be fitted into a 10 Minute Simulation?
There’s just nothing else to do, the only thing that Konami can do under this 10 Minute Limitation is keep touching up on player individuality, perhaps implement a few new cards, improve master league and “BAL” mode, etc, etc.
But same old car under the new paint, same old issue of the COM dictating far too many things for us.
I would say that this whole rant is my personal opinion, but I am convinced that it’s actually a fact. It’s all in the numbers: three gallons of milk will never fit into a one gallon bottle.
in BAL player should be rated based on its position.
Def like say on clearing done or passes intercepted
wingers on accurate crosses delivered
central on playmaking initiated
attackers on shots taken
it should not be that every one is being checked on passes intercepted pases made :-|
Just wanted to elaborate further on Posts 62 and 64.
As mentioned in Post 62:
“it would be an automatic off-the-ball concept, which would give us the power of dictating the most decisive area: how we play with time and space”
But what about MOMENTUM shifts?
Because off-the-ball ability (when in possession) would technically be “automatic” — What would determine how the team clicks?
It’s important to make it clear that how the team “clicks” should depend entirely on our tactical and technical skills.
However, the important thing to point out at this point is, what would happen if your game-plan is not working as expected?
I have watched a lot of Barcelona and Arsenal games, and I have seen this happen so many times; there are games when the team simply does not “clicks” like they usually do.
Of course, this is due to many different reasons. With Arsenal I have seen the “men against boys” thing many times; the opposing team breaks-down the fluid play of Arsenal via physical play.
At times, Arsenal gets through it with highly contested 1-0 or 2-0 victories. But in many occasions, Arsenal gets closed down, their fluid play is literally tackled-down and in the end you actually see how their confidence drops.
So how could these momentum shifts or drops in confidence work on paper?
I have an idea in mind that I think would work decently. The concept would consist of Two Stats and a Confidence Level Gauge; these stats would dictate the “momentum shifts” via the confidence level gauge.
* Confidence Level Gauge: a simple gauge to represent both the Individual Confidence Level of the player in use and the overall Team Confidence Level. It should drop and increase between 10% and 99%.
And logically, the higher the team confidence the better the team will move off-the-ball, or in other words the better the team will “click”.
It is also important to consider the individual confidence level, because it is possible to have a team confidence of 90% and yet have one of your key players with a confidence level of 60%.
And because we have players who never give-up and players that go missing when things get tough. It would be necessary to have the following stats:
* Mentality: determines how well a player copes with the pressure in-game. The higher this Attribute, the more consistent the player will be in-game.
Many things will affect the mentality of each individual: giving possession away, missing an easy goal, not getting hold of the ball as much as he would like, etc, etc.
* Consistency: determines a player’s consistency throughout the season. The higher this Attribute the more likely the player will start the following match with a good confidence level.
For example, if a player with a good “consistency” ends a game with a low confidence level, say a confidence level of 50% -because- he haves good consistency, he would start the following match with a confidence level of 80%.
On the other hand, if a player with poor “consistency” ends a game with a confidence level of 50% — he would start the following game just as he finished his last one; with a confidence level of 50%.
So both attributes would complement each other: with the mentality stat having more of an influence in-game and the consistency stat winning more importance in longer tournaments.
And now I feel it’s appropriate to elaborate on a very important aspect of football, which haves to do more with Team Chemistry.
Many of us have seen how team chemistry can affect the confidence level of a particular player. The perfect example for this would be Leo Messi.
In Barcelona life is much easier for him because Dani Alves, Xavi Hernandez, and Andres Iniesta — give him support up-front.
When you look at Argentina, the player who offered support up-front was Roman Riquelme. And it is no surprise that since Riquelme was forced out of the national squad; Leo Messi has not delivered for Argentina.
Nowadays, Leo Messi haves Sebastian Veron, a player who doesn’t offers a physical presence up-front because he lacks the technical ability required to do so.
Therefore Leo Messi must take the long pass from Veron, and because he haves no support, he must create something out of nothing on his own.
As a result, many football viewers now say that without the dynamic duo Xavi-Iniesta: Messi does not delivers. Which in my opinion is an inaccurate assumption because Messi combined very well with Riquelme in Copa America 2007 and in the Olympic Games.
So in this respect, when we compare a player like Riquelme, whom is slow but very decisive in the final third of the pitch -with- someone like Sebastian Veron, with great passing range but lacking the technical ability to hold the ball in the final third.
This tactical-technical relation determines the brand of football practiced. And in Leo Messi, we have a perfect example of how “team chemistry” can affect the confidence level of an individual with incredibly high standards.
So on paper…
The tactical scheme that Maradona designed did not work as expected. He thought he could play defensive football, with Sebastian Veron giving the long ground passes and Leo Messi creating something out of nothing.
But it did not work as planned… and as a result Leo Messi is unable to play at his usual standards, whenever he plays for Argentina.
Therefore his confidence level drops when he plays for Argentina, meaning that his off-the-ball movement in relation with his team-mates will not be as good as it could be; and as a result it is harder for Messi to “click” with Argentina.
As mentioned in Post 62:
“in this respect, two things stand out: how the player moves off-the-ball, and how good the player is at moving without the ball.
Therefore it is absolutely necessary for the off-the-ball movement to be completely ‘automatic’ when in possession of the ball.
And as a result, it would also be necessary to implement new and more specific STATS to determine:
how each individual will ‘automatically’ decide to move in every possible situation, and how good that individual is at moving in each particular situation.
The tactical and technical abilities of every individual determine how each team functions; tactical systems can only make the best out of those abilities”
Therefore, if we had off-the-ball stats for: defensive work-rate and offensive work-rate.
A starlet like Ronaldinho (who doesn’t like to defend) would have poor defensive work-rate. Meaning that if you design a tactical system in which Ronaldinho is required to contribute on the defensive end.
Ronaldinho could end-up unhappy with the situation, his confidence level drops in-game, and it is harder for Ronaldinho to “click” with AC Milan.
So the whole Confidence Level concept that I’ve been explaining throughout this post would work in conjunction with the off-the-ball stats (which have not been specified yet) mentioned in Post 62.
Adding a new layer of “team chemistry”. And finally replacing the AI-Dictated “momentum shifts” that are completely out of our hands.
PS – like in Post 62, I don’t feel like I’ve been specific enough with what I’ve tried to explain. But regardless, if anyone bothers reading through it, I’d like to hear what you think about it.
@81 Dave O,
Sup Dave? Don’t worry about it, your posts do not seem aggressive to me. Instead i find your points interesting and although i may not share the same views…they are always valid and more even constructive.
As i stated before, we are talking about a video game here that offers nothing substantial in our real lives….well maybe just a bit.
Again, I agree with your points about the ball physics. This had been discussed in detail on many forums during the build for PES 2010. I agree that if the ball had its own “life” then animations would have to be revamped for players to react differently with or without the ball. Turns, runs and controls could be a beauty if we had to chase the ball with more effort. Just like you said, it would be a bit more realistic.
This i believe is one of the most important aspect of the animations overall. If you notice EA’s ball looks a bit bigger than PES during game play. This give off the “balloon” effect that many complain about in Fifa. The size of the models also must match up, both player and ball. Dribbling i think can be improved drastically but i hope this doesn’t break the core of the game.
Honestly, I do think that PES has some promise. The game is only suffering from the lack of committment from Konami to change the base engine of the game. As mentioned above, the older engine is cheaper to keep and a new engine means a completely new game which will cost money. Konami makes good money from PES each year regardless of how bad the title is.
Peace
Time to hit the Reset Button.
I have read almost every single post here and everyone who posted (on topic) had really valid inputs towards the improvement of PES.
Dopecoil, Dave O and Amatuer even offered some interesting solutions to specfic problems currently being faced within the game.
I tend to agree with Dave O that the AI is not cheating, scripted maybe but definitely not cheating. Has anyone played COD or any other shooting games where some of the bad guys hide and shoot but others just walk straight towards you as if they can’t die? This is how developers differentiate the levels. PES AI is flawed by its constant passing in the back which isn’t cheating, it more borders on boring and easy.
Basically it is time for PES to hit the reset button. There is little that can be done on this current engine to improve the game. As Amateur stated “three gallons of milk will never fit into a one gallon bottle”. The base and scope of project has already been maxed out.
Online is my biggest peeve and if they can’t fix that….they cannot fix anything. ITS BEEN THREE YEARS.
Who works on trying to fix one simple problem for three years and still fails…….SEABASS MUST BE FIRED.
@99 agreed totally
@ Amateur
Your ideas are great, and by the way konami is spending time on improvement, this is not possible in the current game engine, hopefully these will be implemented by 2016 and should work great with PS4
let konami make a PES which has real game’s pace, this is the very basic parameter which differentiates between Arcade and simulation. Konami may not implement such a complex off the ball stuff, because for this users must have good knowledge about the players and team styles and not everyone has the same. They will not risk the gameplay by implementing a brand new next gen off the ball concept. This will be great if implemented, but what if it fails to co-ordinate the buildup? As for this concept the game’s pace has to be 3 times lowered than PES2010s, and if the passing is not MANUAL, with the slow pace, you will hardly make any mistakes. Same is the case with AI, it can perfectly execute a attack or organize the defense. Once the passing is done manual the off the ball movement for TRAPPING the ball itself can be controlled by the user. Here I suggest MANUAL passing only for through and long balls and not short pass.( IMO, if we have manual for short pass too, we can make the gameplay more flexible and realistic, just imagine shooting without power bar)
If the passes are not made manual, players can make 20 to 30 passes without being intercepted, so making it manual will reflect realism.
bloody hell, i knew Dopecoil changed his name regularly, but i thought i would never see the day when he would change his name and talk himself up lol, come on mate thats a pretty sad state of affairs.
I actually agree with what you say that FIFA is streets ahead of FIFA, and i come on this site for the same reasons as yourself, not to be a FIFA fanboy, but because i long to see PES as KING OF FOOTBALL once more…
You dont do yourself any favours though bud, your arrogance coms across as ignorance at times and thats why you have people slagging you off on a regular basis
ISS was the past, stop bringing it up, BROKEN RECORD… however i agree that SEABASS has to go if PES is to move into the same league as FIFA in terms of freedom in the gameplay and the realism of the animations
I would like to see the BAL mode improved as every match is the same, however this is way down the bottom of the priority list with the likes of the game engine and online to be fixed first! I would also like a deeper edit mode, the old ’situation’ training to return, PES shop, wider range of teams tom play as(obvously unliscensed) and a new penalty system, the old and new ones are awful, maybe copy FIFA on this area
@ Amateur
But for now Konami can implement this little off the ball concept for PES 2011. This can be set in the strategy buttons or with some other strategy combinations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEbs53X3IEY&feature=PlayList&p=04F65FB326E26375&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=28
These 12 tactics should work well and trigger them when ever needed, If Konami can implement this simple concept in a period of one year, Then your ideas will surely be considered for future PES.
These off the ball movements are standard ones, if Konami is working on the off-the-ball movement they can use these presets as the base and give options for the users to alter them and practicing and setting them in training ground, My idea is to make a CUSTOM off the ball movement presets in formation and tactics menu with factors like frequency, direction and distance of the run. So here your AUTOMATIC OTBM(off the ball movement) can fit well with a wide range of variation. Now my question is were you talking about this readymade AUTOMATIC OTBM or the same split into finer OTBM?
When talking about ai i dont personally feel that ea in fifa10 have got it to wrong as in the world class setting as the cpu will tear you a new hole if given enough time and space and when it does have the ball its very pro-active in going forward and utilising space.While it rarely shoots from range the cpu will use the pitch to stretch your team if you press and maximise any time given to it.
You only have to look at the match facts after a game to see how many tackles the cpu will commit and the locations on the pitch which are always key areas and at pivetal moments in the game.Its smart and it thinks and while it may not offer the scope of another human it does demonstrate thats its a long way ahead of pes.
The more i play fifa10 the more i realise how realistic and life like it is and yes it does have a bigger ball then pes but its accurate and thats what a ball looks like the ball in pes is to small.
I think for many your just playing fifa10 with the wrong camera set it to DYNAMIC
Shtoomer
I do listen to others and im not ignorant but admittedly a bit arrogant.Your hardly a angel yourself so stop the sweetness and light bit because you deliberatly wind people up at times rather then making valid points that relate to the relevant blogg of the week.Anyway back to ISS which i have moved on from about 10 years ago when i played the first pes.The problem is i want pes to make me forget ISS the problem is it just continues to remind me how one dimensional and limited pes is but are try to can it from now on.
Shtoomer
Honestly,i dont think pes was ever that good it was just better then anything else around at the time of the ps2 so for many is the benchmark but not everyone.The problem is ea have raised the bar so much people going back to pes2010 see the glaring flaws more then ever and these dont just relate to the cosmetics like animation and player movement they en-compass everything from ai routines to the scripting to the assisted nature of the gameplay.For some pes is like there favourite sports wear manufacturer there not going to wear another brand even if its a better product because there favoured brands stamped into there unconcious and there unwilling to get over there pre-conceptions.
When i play fifa10 one thing strikes me its harder and less forgiving then pes2010 in the world class setting and a challenge and offers a learning curve that pes fans raised on pes are unwilling to step into because pes flatters there ability and doesnt require much skill now to play as its still built around the short pass and playing on the ground and its almost impossible to mis-hit or make errors.
Amateur and others claim that fifa10 is not a good simulation and while entitled to there opinion in my eyes are wrong and havent maybe quite the knowledge of football as they claim and maybe need to take a closer look before wishing for things that already exist in fifa10.
Yes i would like konami to raise the bar and produce something as technically good as fifa10 but i doubt they will as there a japanese company whos mentality is very much based on there videos games culture of releasing the same product for cycles of 10-20 years with minimal upgrades until the point where sales drop so low they wake up and actually do something with there ip.
Japan was once the centre for everything that was exciting in games and the west followed now that has changed and we in the west produce and make more technical and superior games then the japanese.
Ultimetly though i will say to everyone one on here your wasting your breath if you think anything we say is being listened to by konami the reality is ea are the ones that frequent pes sites more then konami to put things we all want in pes in there game.
They have been doing it for four years now thats why fifa10 is where it is where as pes is worse then ever.
Goodbye to all and i really hope you get your dream game this year,me im off to join the fifa community and work on a independant site dedicated to all things fifa because the guys running this site are raking it in off the back of advertising revenues and us.
Amateur – I agree then, 20 mins is reasonable, but I thought you meant more like 30 or more, which would be cool, but too much IMO to allow one to enjoy a season, and even less so mutliple seasons.
Again though I think it would be difficult for them to sell this to the general public, who for the most part are looking for a quick fun game that they can pick up and play. I do think it’s a good idea though, maybe it could be a so-called “hardcore mode…?” i.e. an option, not the regular mode…?
@Ockrass 99,
It’s good that we can agree and disagree at the same time, that’s rare indeed.
What I wanted to add is that I did some testing on PES 2010 yesterday, and noticed some things about the animations that add even more to what I’m saying. What I did is just watch the game move, zoomed in up close and in slo mo, and in particular I paid attention to the interaction between the player’s foot and the ball as he dribbles. When shooting, for the most part, the contact is good, but when dribbling the physical interaction is really really poor. I think though that at times it looks pretty good, but a lot of the “touches” a player makes when running with the ball seem to again be the yo-yo effect. By this I mean that the ball travels out in front of the player like a yo yo, instead of him actually advancing the ball physically. In fact, the key thing I noticed was a few times where it was very clear that the ball was moving PRIOR to the player reaching out to touch it (like magic). In fact, the ball moved quite a bit once (maybe over two feet) when the player hadn’t even touched it, and he also hadn’t even begun the animation to reach out to touch it!!! It may seem like I’m being overly analytical and picky, but I think PES need to improve this aspect of the game 10 fold, and if they do that it will go a long way to making the gameplay less robotic, more organic, even if from a distance it’s hard to see. I am also going to be bringing out Fifa 10 soon to play some of it and test it in the same way. As I remember it, Fifa is much much better in this regard, but also a bit too canned at times. Dribbling alone won’t make me play Fifa though, obviously, and it will probably be another couple of weeks before I play it again, just because I’m coming to the final 2 weeks of my ML, in the finals of everything major, and hoping to win it all with my up and coming Wolves side. Honestly I love this part of the season. It’s like those last climactic chapters in a good book, where everything matters but you don’t know for sure what’s going to happen.
@94 Dave O Says:
I will start off by saying that I agree with you on a lot of points and I believe that I have stated that in the past.
On the AI interference however, I’m afraid you are either wrong or you have misunderstood.
I am not talking about the way the flow of the game changes during a specific match. That, although contrived, attempts to replicate the realism of the ebb and flow of a match.
Every match, all the time, the AI interferes with your player control, to the point when you sometimes feel you are against not only the opposition players but your own. Its not new. Its been there throughout the series. You will notice it more when defending. If I’m running to close down the space to intercept a pass, then my player, for no reason, slows to a jog, or just stops, preventing me from getting the ball, that to me is cheating. It may not be a programmed cheat, it might just be the side effect of some other programming element, but to me, the outcome is a cheat.
Thankfully the change player has been mostly fixed. Too often on the old games there would be one defender that could make a tackle or plug a gap, and that would be the one player the computer would not let you control. That, although probably caused by a programming error, was a cheat for the computer as it didnt suffer from that.
I don’t mind losing, not that it happens often, but i hate being cheated. There always seems to be a spate of games midway through the season, when you are doing well in the league and suddenly your players can’t do anything you ask them to, strangely coinciding with the opposition players playing out of their skin. If this seemed to be because your form arrows were poor, or even you had a team with low player mentality, then you could half explain it.
I know the computer makes sweeping changes to yours and the computer players abilities. How else can you explain how easy it is when your master league team or your BAL are very poor. I think people who moan about how easy the game is don’t realise that the better your master league team or BAL gets the harder the game becomes. Your BAL with 60 for passing and shooting can pull off better passes and shots than your BAL with 80s. The opposition will play better, your team mates worse, you will get closed down more. Its like playing an arcade racing game with catch-up mode. Even in the piggy back guide it says that BAL on top player only means the opposition players play at top player, your teammates still only operate at profession. That maybe offering another level of difficulty but not on a level playing field and shows that the CPU can make sweeping changes to one team and not the other.
I happen to think that PES10 is the best to date. I’m not a huge fan of FIFA either so I’m not overly attacking PES. I still have all of the PES series and have checked which I deem the best, irrespective of graphics. The problems with PES10 arent new, they have generally always been there. But, they need to move on now. Not that I would care who makes the best football game, but EA have been moving in the right direction and theres a chance that FIFA could make the best all round football game soon. (on the pitch) Some people think they currently do. No one I know in real life, but so ive read :)
The player control element and the CPU interference are the intrinsic problems the game suffers from. All other issues are only minor gripes.
@106 Dopecoil Says:
‘Honestly,i dont think pes was ever that good it was just better then anything else around at the time.’
And how is that different from anything there has ever been ever? Thats how you rate things.
‘Yes i would like konami to raise the bar and produce something as technically good as fifa10 but i doubt they will as there a japanese company whos mentality is very much based on there videos games culture of releasing the same product for cycles of 10-20 years with minimal upgrades until the point where sales drop so low they wake up and actually do something with there ip.’
And how many games has EA made, not just FIFA games, that were pretty much the same game with extra bells and whistles added?
Really what we need is more game developers making football titles. The football game market has become stagnant.
quick question. im getting the game but is there a patch available for the teams? cause last time i played the liscences were not available are any updates available?
@113 12-Gauge,
Unfortunately, there is no patch for the team licenses which includes names, kits, stadiums …etc.
However, there are some really great option files that fixes all of the concerns you may have regarding licensing.
@ Dopecoil
No offense but, if you think FIFA10 is an accurate simulation… then perhaps it is you who doesn’t haves the knowledge you think you have.
FIFA10 is full of flaws, and it certainly doesn’t plays like football.
I have played FIFA since before FIFA 2001, and I have certainly given enough of a try to FIFA09 and FIFA10. And I do know how EA simply copied what PES offered but with the ever repetitive DNA of FIFA.
In my opinion, both FIFA09 and FIFA10 are seriously overrated simulation games: booooring and repetitive games requiring boring levels of skill.
But of course that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m starting to get annoyed by your arrogance. Not long ago you said that PES10 was the best thing ever. Now FIFA is the best thing yet — which one is it?
Is it not possible that I am just as good as you are at both PES10 and FIFA10 -but- that unlike you, I just find these simulation games boring to play?
I just don’t understand your logic, so because I don’t appreciate FIFA10 as much as you do — it simply means that you have more knowledge than myself and other people who share the same opinion?
I don’t give a sh*t about EA or Konami. I simply don’t like were FIFA10 is going and I don’t have the time to be chatting on PES and FIFA Forums.
Now I’m actually interested in what FIFA “hardcore” fans have to say. Is the FIFA10 engine good enough for revolutionary improvements?
@Duffman. Good post there at 110. You really explained what you meant well. Some of it I agree with based on my experiences, some not as much, but it all depends on your experiences and perspective I guess. Either way, you’re not really saying anything I wasn’t already aware of or that I don’t agree with, it’s just that at least at the moment I don’t really think the so-called cheating is a big problem, for me, anyway.
I found what you said though about ML getting harder as your players get better to be very , very interesting though. My best player is 83 overall, and nobody has stats over about 91 at anything. If what you are saying is true though about the game becoming harder as your players get better, then, well, that’s an extremely interesting thing to me. In fact, it might turn out to be great news for me, because like I said I’m loving the game, but concerned about the longevity of it in terms of difficulty as I continue to develop my team. This might mean there are another 3-4 seasons before I tire of it. However, I will have to play it more and see how the difficulty increases, if it really does, before I can say for sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing IMO.
Haven’t played much BAL this year, but I really enjoy that mode and I agree that it should be much less AI-controlled. I would personally like to be able to adjust sliders for my team in BAL, even though, I know, that’s not really the point of that game mode, but it would add something I think.
Anyone who is a fan of BAL though should try it out in the PS2 versions, espcially J League 2008, which was really much better than on next gen IMO, especially in player cam.
Whatever happends, remove the damn realistic button lag.
When i want to take a left faint i want that to happens instantly when i press the button, not several seconds after ive pressed due to the button lag which got introduced in PES 2010.
I really miss these features that were removed for no good reason.
1. Throw-ins that made sense from Pes 3.
2. Injury details from Pes 3. It was cool to know how my players suffered.
3. Fairplay from Pes 5. That was really cool. Felt just like a real match.
4. The way GKs came out and calmly play the ball with their feet in Pes 3. In recent editions they all run out at full speed and punt it like madmen.
5. Hand balls from Pes 3. Just have an option to turn them off so the little girls won’t cry when they lose because of a hand ball penalty.
DUFFMAN 111
‘Honestly,i dont think pes was ever that good it was just better then anything else around at the time.’
And how is that different from anything there has ever been ever? Thats how you rate things.
What i meant was for most pes was there first experience of a football game so they see that as the benchmark they dont have the luxury of experiencing something that offered more player control and better ai with the ability to actually hit a placed through ball or teamates that actually behaved a realistic way.A time when you could defend properly and the game wasnt in the hands of the cpu and that time was the decade of ISS.Yes pes brought things to the plate but it also stripped alot away and created something that has shown promise for ten years but never quite hit the protential it should have both on the ps2 and now the current consoles.
You make some great points though and at least your honest enough to aknowledge the faults within pes that have plaqued its legacy since the beginning.I think for many and me we have just become tired of buying the same game every year from konami on the back of promises and a wish that it actually evolves and corrects its problems because there is something ok there.Fifa10 now just offers something more fresh without the pes flaws and a genuine alternative.
Me i saw something in pes2009 while it was flawed it had something that could of been built on but instead konami have tryed to take it back to pes5 and its created even more of a monster.To quote konami pes2010 is your game well if this is the game the fans wanted and helped create then what a messy flawed pile of turd is the end product.
How hard would it really be for konami to refine and improve the free kick,set pece and passing and shooting system with better convincing ai and less scripting they have 20 years experience of making football games and you would of thought they would have got it right by now especially when they had it right for ten years on the nes,snes,n64.
Amateur
Call me arrogant call me what you want but i would tear you a new hole if you played me on a football game.
More **** comes out of your mouth then a water treatment plant and you would think your own life was boring if someone told you it was a simulation.
Theres expectations and theres someone who understands coding as much as the suns gravitational pull on the earth.I might rattle on about ISS but **** amateur how many times are you going to re-word the same comment on the perfect simulation.
I partly agree with Dopecoil -but- what I cannot understand is why an experienced gamer like himself finds FIFA10 like something “fresh”.
It’s the same old BS. The only difference is that FIFA offers us “manual” control gimmicks for: passing, shooting, dribbling, etc, etc. which in my opinion, haves little to do with how we play the game.
In both PES10 and FIFA10 the COM decides far too many things for us. Only difference is that EA was smart enough to use superficial control gimmicks (like the right stick dribbling tricks) to cover the fact that off-the-ball play haves little to no depth.
It’s very disappointing to read some posts and realize that many PES-Fans still have no idea of what needs to improve.
* The R1 button used in the FIFA games.
* Implement the same dribbling concept used in FIFA10.
* Throw-ins that made sense from PES 3.
* Injury details from PES 3. It was cool to know how my players suffered.
* Fairplay from PES 5. That was really cool. Felt just like a real match.
* The way GKs came out and calmly play the ball with their feet in PES 3. In recent editions they all run out at full speed and punt it like madmen.
* Hand balls from PES 3. Just have an option to turn them off so the little girls won’t cry when they lose because of a hand ball penalty.
* Whatever happens, remove the damn realistic button lag.
Although some of these so-called improvements would be cool features, and certainly realistic within a year — would it touch on the core gameplay mechanics that need to be replaced?
If Konami remove the “button lag” — you can bet your ass that the same people who asked for the “button lag” to be removed; will complain about the game playing like pinball.
If Konami say that PES10 was what the fans asked for; I would have to agree with them, because I think it is what most fans asked for.
We simply need to put a bit more effort in our feedback, we need to have a better understanding of the game, know how the game can actually improve -instead- of contradicting ourselves on a daily or yearly basis.
Going back to the ai scripting, I think the reason why it’s so contrived and why it feels like it’s cheating is because PES works, and has always worked, in extremes. When the ai turns against you, you don’t just have the odd bad pass or clumsy control… it all fails and fails to such an exaggerated degree it stop being a simulation of football and starts becoming a parody of it.
For example, I was playing as the ML default team (under the PES United guise) against Tottenham in the English Cup. The first 65 minutes were terrible… the ball kept cannonballing off my players, tackling was so weak I might as well have not bothered, and every single shot of mine trickled straight to the keeper. 67th minute, Crouch scored a free header from a corner and I was down 1-0. Two minutes later, my team sprung into life and I ended up winning 5-1 with Ordaz scoring a hattrick and Ruskin setting up four and scoring one himself from a lucky bounce. Fine, I won, but the shift in quality was so great it felt like I was being blackmailed a result. It wasn’t exciting at all… it was annoying.
I think it’s also why some say FIFA 10 is better and some say it fells soulless… the scripting isn’t there (bar the suspicious amount of times shots hit the post) and so it feels a lot more consistent.
That’s my take on it anyway.
Brainplant, Post 121
Fully agree with you.
I don’t really care if it’s “cheating” or whatever, for me the flaw is that we simply follow a script… the COM
And with FIFA10 we might not have the “scripting” or “cheating” -but- one-on-ones are a regular occurrence, the repetitiveness is there, and at the end of the day it’s just boring and unrealistic.
Which is why in my opinion, neither FIFA10 nor PES10 offers anything truly new to us. Like Ockrass mentioned in Post 100: “it’s time to hit the reset button”
Amateur those are just good features I want returned from old versions, which is what the article asked for. There’s no denying that having proper throw-ins and more realistic handling GKs already improve the gameplay but you’re right in that it would be a moot point if we had those features again but core gameplay didn’t improve.
Konami needs to stop removing good features on top of improving gameplay. It’s so bad that in Pes 2010 I honestly can’t remember any good features worth saving. Everything worth mentioning has been removed for no good reason in older versions.
Stormrider,
I didn’t mean that in a bad way, and I do agree that it would improve the gameplay. I guess my point is to specify things, instead of saying “improvements for 2011″ — “old features that we want back in the game”.
I’m just saying that we should demand greater things for Konami. We are too soft on them.
I’ve read almost all the comments here and many people have made yery good suggestions(dopecoil,dave o,amateur,ockrass,etc.) so I’m not going to waste time repeating what ye have said. But one thing that pisses me off with pes2010 is the classic teams/players.
This was one of the reasons I chose pes over fifa but now that they’ve f****d up this I’m finding it harder and harder to keep the faith. How can anyone make classic teams without including cryuff, pele, zico, garrincha, di stephano, beckenbaur, platini, charlton or moore. And its even worse when it comes to classic players. Where’s puskas and recoba?(I’m sure theres more but i can’t think of them now). Not only that but they’ve replaced those mentioned above and put in incredibly average players (dennis wise in classic england, anyone?). Whoever did this at konami should be sacked!!!
Here’s what I think they should do in terms of classic teams/players for pes2011:
1. Bring back the players mentioned above
2. Bring back the pes shop so we don’t have to win 5-6 leagues and cups to unlock players
3. Bring back euro and world all-stars from pes2
4. This is something I’ve been thinking about over the last few days. why not make extra classic national teams like classic spain, ireland, scotland and classic club teams like classic man utd, arsenal, liverpool, real, barca, inter, milan, ajax, celtic, marseille, bayern, etc. and make them available for download from the playstation store or whatever the x-box equivilent is.
Amatuer
How about a game from pes productions where we create the script with the way we play for example if your stringing lots of nice passes together and are not giving the ball away your team has the rub of the green and the more goals you score the more motivated and sharp your teammates are.The opposing team or player then has to keep the ball better earn its openings and get it self back in the game through your errors or gaps you leave while going forward and taking risks rather then the cpu weakening your teamates and giving it a leg up.
Lets not forget a year ago pes was still in 8-axis and a game primarily designed to be played by the d-pad thats how stuck in the past pes was when ea in fifa10 have had the balls to say you know isnt about time we actually offered more freedom of movement and player control for the user.Pes2010 might have more directions then its forbears but the restrictions are more evident as is the assistence on passing and shooting.
The way forward now for pes is for konami to embrace tight player control both in defence and attack with the analog stick giving the user unparalled levels of control of his teamates and the ball not a game that swings on a pendulum at the wim of the cpu because they cannot remove the rails or restrictions or actually produce a ai system that works in unison with the user.
There should be no need for team vision or any AI relating to the team in general terms.
Each individual player should think separately from the team. They should have their own skills, their own abilities to play within a formation, their own mentality shifts effected by form, whether they are winning or losing, whether its a big pressure game etc. You do see players shift in form during games or over the course of games due to a number of factors like mentality, fitness, morale etc
You should be able to pick your team for different situations. There are players that go missing in big games, or cant handle pressure games, people who rise to the challenge, raise their game when losing, drop their efforts when winning or playing lesser teams. But at the moment on video games its very much, team play good, team play bad, like a light switch.
Obviously creating individual intelligent thinking for each player is a long way off (imagine how much that would slow down online) but they could try and attempt to give more individual thought for each player. But they also need to address the issue that you, as a player, dont feel like you have quite enough control.
@115 Dave O Says:
I found what you said though about ML getting harder as your players get better to be very , very interesting though. My best player is 83 overall, and nobody has stats over about 91 at anything. If what you are saying is true though about the game becoming harder as your players get better, then, well, that’s an extremely interesting thing to me. In fact, it might turn out to be great news for me, because like I said I’m loving the game, but concerned about the longevity of it in terms of difficulty as I continue to develop my team. This might mean there are another 3-4 seasons before I tire of it. However, I will have to play it more and see how the difficulty increases, if it really does, before I can say for sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing IMO.
Personally, I dont want to be helped when my team or player isnt good enough. I want to struggle. It gives you something to work towards.
They should offer it as an option. Catch up mode, on/off.
Unfortunately although it does crank up the difficulty level, it doesnt do it quite as fast as your team/players ability increases. So it will get harder but it wont ever feel hard. You do notice it more on BAL as you arent in control of your teammates, so any shift in your teams difficulty level is glaring.