I found what you said though about ML getting harder as your players get better to be very , very interesting though. My best player is 83 overall, and nobody has stats over about 91 at anything. If what you are saying is true though about the game becoming harder as your players get better, then, well, that’s an extremely interesting thing to me. In fact, it might turn out to be great news for me, because like I said I’m loving the game, but concerned about the longevity of it in terms of difficulty as I continue to develop my team. This might mean there are another 3-4 seasons before I tire of it. However, I will have to play it more and see how the difficulty increases, if it really does, before I can say for sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing IMO.

Personally, I dont want to be helped when my team or player isnt good enough. I want to struggle. It gives you something to work towards.
They should offer it as an option. Catch up mode, on/off.

Unfortunately although it does crank up the difficulty level, it doesnt do it quite as fast as your team/players ability increases. So it will get harder but it wont ever feel hard. You do notice it more on BAL as you arent in control of your teammates, so any shift in your teams difficulty level is glaring.

Each individual player should think separately from the team. They should have their own skills, their own abilities to play within a formation, their own mentality shifts effected by form, whether they are winning or losing, whether its a big pressure game etc. You do see players shift in form during games or over the course of games due to a number of factors like mentality, fitness, morale etc

You should be able to pick your team for different situations. There are players that go missing in big games, or cant handle pressure games, people who rise to the challenge, raise their game when losing, drop their efforts when winning or playing lesser teams. But at the moment on video games its very much, team play good, team play bad, like a light switch.

Obviously creating individual intelligent thinking for each player is a long way off (imagine how much that would slow down online) but they could try and attempt to give more individual thought for each player. But they also need to address the issue that you, as a player, dont feel like you have quite enough control.

How about a game from pes productions where we create the script with the way we play for example if your stringing lots of nice passes together and are not giving the ball away your team has the rub of the green and the more goals you score the more motivated and sharp your teammates are.The opposing team or player then has to keep the ball better earn its openings and get it self back in the game through your errors or gaps you leave while going forward and taking risks rather then the cpu weakening your teamates and giving it a leg up.

Lets not forget a year ago pes was still in 8-axis and a game primarily designed to be played by the d-pad thats how stuck in the past pes was when ea in fifa10 have had the balls to say you know isnt about time we actually offered more freedom of movement and player control for the user.Pes2010 might have more directions then its forbears but the restrictions are more evident as is the assistence on passing and shooting.

The way forward now for pes is for konami to embrace tight player control both in defence and attack with the analog stick giving the user unparalled levels of control of his teamates and the ball not a game that swings on a pendulum at the wim of the cpu because they cannot remove the rails or restrictions or actually produce a ai system that works in unison with the user.

This was one of the reasons I chose pes over fifa but now that they’ve f****d up this I’m finding it harder and harder to keep the faith. How can anyone make classic teams without including cryuff, pele, zico, garrincha, di stephano, beckenbaur, platini, charlton or moore. And its even worse when it comes to classic players. Where’s puskas and recoba?(I’m sure theres more but i can’t think of them now). Not only that but they’ve replaced those mentioned above and put in incredibly average players (dennis wise in classic england, anyone?). Whoever did this at konami should be sacked!!!

Here’s what I think they should do in terms of classic teams/players for pes2011:

1. Bring back the players mentioned above

2. Bring back the pes shop so we don’t have to win 5-6 leagues and cups to unlock players

3. Bring back euro and world all-stars from pes2

4. This is something I’ve been thinking about over the last few days. why not make extra classic national teams like classic spain, ireland, scotland and classic club teams like classic man utd, arsenal, liverpool, real, barca, inter, milan, ajax, celtic, marseille, bayern, etc. and make them available for download from the playstation store or whatever the x-box equivilent is.

I didn’t mean that in a bad way, and I do agree that it would improve the gameplay. I guess my point is to specify things, instead of saying “improvements for 2011″ — “old features that we want back in the game”.

I’m just saying that we should demand greater things for Konami. We are too soft on them.

Konami needs to stop removing good features on top of improving gameplay. It’s so bad that in Pes 2010 I honestly can’t remember any good features worth saving. Everything worth mentioning has been removed for no good reason in older versions.

Fully agree with you.

I don’t really care if it’s “cheating” or whatever, for me the flaw is that we simply follow a script… the COM

And with FIFA10 we might not have the “scripting” or “cheating” -but- one-on-ones are a regular occurrence, the repetitiveness is there, and at the end of the day it’s just boring and unrealistic.

Which is why in my opinion, neither FIFA10 nor PES10 offers anything truly new to us. Like Ockrass mentioned in Post 100: “it’s time to hit the reset button”

For example, I was playing as the ML default team (under the PES United guise) against Tottenham in the English Cup. The first 65 minutes were terrible… the ball kept cannonballing off my players, tackling was so weak I might as well have not bothered, and every single shot of mine trickled straight to the keeper. 67th minute, Crouch scored a free header from a corner and I was down 1-0. Two minutes later, my team sprung into life and I ended up winning 5-1 with Ordaz scoring a hattrick and Ruskin setting up four and scoring one himself from a lucky bounce. Fine, I won, but the shift in quality was so great it felt like I was being blackmailed a result. It wasn’t exciting at all… it was annoying.

I think it’s also why some say FIFA 10 is better and some say it fells soulless… the scripting isn’t there (bar the suspicious amount of times shots hit the post) and so it feels a lot more consistent.

That’s my take on it anyway.

It’s the same old BS. The only difference is that FIFA offers us “manual” control gimmicks for: passing, shooting, dribbling, etc, etc. which in my opinion, haves little to do with how we play the game.

In both PES10 and FIFA10 the COM decides far too many things for us. Only difference is that EA was smart enough to use superficial control gimmicks (like the right stick dribbling tricks) to cover the fact that off-the-ball play haves little to no depth.

It’s very disappointing to read some posts and realize that many PES-Fans still have no idea of what needs to improve.

* The R1 button used in the FIFA games.

* Implement the same dribbling concept used in FIFA10.

* Throw-ins that made sense from PES 3.

* Injury details from PES 3. It was cool to know how my players suffered.

* Fairplay from PES 5. That was really cool. Felt just like a real match.

* The way GKs came out and calmly play the ball with their feet in PES 3. In recent editions they all run out at full speed and punt it like madmen.

* Hand balls from PES 3. Just have an option to turn them off so the little girls won’t cry when they lose because of a hand ball penalty.

* Whatever happens, remove the damn realistic button lag.

Although some of these so-called improvements would be cool features, and certainly realistic within a year — would it touch on the core gameplay mechanics that need to be replaced?

If Konami remove the “button lag” — you can bet your ass that the same people who asked for the “button lag” to be removed; will complain about the game playing like pinball.

If Konami say that PES10 was what the fans asked for; I would have to agree with them, because I think it is what most fans asked for.

We simply need to put a bit more effort in our feedback, we need to have a better understanding of the game, know how the game can actually improve -instead- of contradicting ourselves on a daily or yearly basis.

Call me arrogant call me what you want but i would tear you a new hole if you played me on a football game.

More **** comes out of your mouth then a water treatment plant and you would think your own life was boring if someone told you it was a simulation.

Theres expectations and theres someone who understands coding as much as the suns gravitational pull on the earth.I might rattle on about ISS but **** amateur how many times are you going to re-word the same comment on the perfect simulation.

‘Honestly,i dont think pes was ever that good it was just better then anything else around at the time.’

And how is that different from anything there has ever been ever? Thats how you rate things.

What i meant was for most pes was there first experience of a football game so they see that as the benchmark they dont have the luxury of experiencing something that offered more player control and better ai with the ability to actually hit a placed through ball or teamates that actually behaved a realistic way.A time when you could defend properly and the game wasnt in the hands of the cpu and that time was the decade of ISS.Yes pes brought things to the plate but it also stripped alot away and created something that has shown promise for ten years but never quite hit the protential it should have both on the ps2 and now the current consoles.

You make some great points though and at least your honest enough to aknowledge the faults within pes that have plaqued its legacy since the beginning.I think for many and me we have just become tired of buying the same game every year from konami on the back of promises and a wish that it actually evolves and corrects its problems because there is something ok there.Fifa10 now just offers something more fresh without the pes flaws and a genuine alternative.

Me i saw something in pes2009 while it was flawed it had something that could of been built on but instead konami have tryed to take it back to pes5 and its created even more of a monster.To quote konami pes2010 is your game well if this is the game the fans wanted and helped create then what a messy flawed pile of turd is the end product.

How hard would it really be for konami to refine and improve the free kick,set pece and passing and shooting system with better convincing ai and less scripting they have 20 years experience of making football games and you would of thought they would have got it right by now especially when they had it right for ten years on the nes,snes,n64.

1. Throw-ins that made sense from Pes 3.

2. Injury details from Pes 3. It was cool to know how my players suffered.

3. Fairplay from Pes 5. That was really cool. Felt just like a real match.

4. The way GKs came out and calmly play the ball with their feet in Pes 3. In recent editions they all run out at full speed and punt it like madmen.

5. Hand balls from Pes 3. Just have an option to turn them off so the little girls won’t cry when they lose because of a hand ball penalty.

When i want to take a left faint i want that to happens instantly when i press the button, not several seconds after ive pressed due to the button lag which got introduced in PES 2010.

I found what you said though about ML getting harder as your players get better to be very , very interesting though. My best player is 83 overall, and nobody has stats over about 91 at anything. If what you are saying is true though about the game becoming harder as your players get better, then, well, that’s an extremely interesting thing to me. In fact, it might turn out to be great news for me, because like I said I’m loving the game, but concerned about the longevity of it in terms of difficulty as I continue to develop my team. This might mean there are another 3-4 seasons before I tire of it. However, I will have to play it more and see how the difficulty increases, if it really does, before I can say for sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing IMO.

Haven’t played much BAL this year, but I really enjoy that mode and I agree that it should be much less AI-controlled. I would personally like to be able to adjust sliders for my team in BAL, even though, I know, that’s not really the point of that game mode, but it would add something I think.

Anyone who is a fan of BAL though should try it out in the PS2 versions, espcially J League 2008, which was really much better than on next gen IMO, especially in player cam.

No offense but, if you think FIFA10 is an accurate simulation… then perhaps it is you who doesn’t haves the knowledge you think you have.

FIFA10 is full of flaws, and it certainly doesn’t plays like football.

I have played FIFA since before FIFA 2001, and I have certainly given enough of a try to FIFA09 and FIFA10. And I do know how EA simply copied what PES offered but with the ever repetitive DNA of FIFA.

In my opinion, both FIFA09 and FIFA10 are seriously overrated simulation games: booooring and repetitive games requiring boring levels of skill.

But of course that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m starting to get annoyed by your arrogance. Not long ago you said that PES10 was the best thing ever. Now FIFA is the best thing yet — which one is it?

Is it not possible that I am just as good as you are at both PES10 and FIFA10 -but- that unlike you, I just find these simulation games boring to play?

I just don’t understand your logic, so because I don’t appreciate FIFA10 as much as you do — it simply means that you have more knowledge than myself and other people who share the same opinion?

I don’t give a sh*t about EA or Konami. I simply don’t like were FIFA10 is going and I don’t have the time to be chatting on PES and FIFA Forums.

Now I’m actually interested in what FIFA “hardcore” fans have to say. Is the FIFA10 engine good enough for revolutionary improvements?

Unfortunately, there is no patch for the team licenses which includes names, kits, stadiums …etc.

However, there are some really great option files that fixes all of the concerns you may have regarding licensing.

‘Honestly,i dont think pes was ever that good it was just better then anything else around at the time.’

And how is that different from anything there has ever been ever? Thats how you rate things.

‘Yes i would like konami to raise the bar and produce something as technically good as fifa10 but i doubt they will as there a japanese company whos mentality is very much based on there videos games culture of releasing the same product for cycles of 10-20 years with minimal upgrades until the point where sales drop so low they wake up and actually do something with there ip.’

And how many games has EA made, not just FIFA games, that were pretty much the same game with extra bells and whistles added?

Really what we need is more game developers making football titles. The football game market has become stagnant.

I will start off by saying that I agree with you on a lot of points and I believe that I have stated that in the past.

On the AI interference however, I’m afraid you are either wrong or you have misunderstood.

I am not talking about the way the flow of the game changes during a specific match. That, although contrived, attempts to replicate the realism of the ebb and flow of a match.

Every match, all the time, the AI interferes with your player control, to the point when you sometimes feel you are against not only the opposition players but your own. Its not new. Its been there throughout the series. You will notice it more when defending. If I’m running to close down the space to intercept a pass, then my player, for no reason, slows to a jog, or just stops, preventing me from getting the ball, that to me is cheating. It may not be a programmed cheat, it might just be the side effect of some other programming element, but to me, the outcome is a cheat.

Thankfully the change player has been mostly fixed. Too often on the old games there would be one defender that could make a tackle or plug a gap, and that would be the one player the computer would not let you control. That, although probably caused by a programming error, was a cheat for the computer as it didnt suffer from that.

I don’t mind losing, not that it happens often, but i hate being cheated. There always seems to be a spate of games midway through the season, when you are doing well in the league and suddenly your players can’t do anything you ask them to, strangely coinciding with the opposition players playing out of their skin. If this seemed to be because your form arrows were poor, or even you had a team with low player mentality, then you could half explain it.

I know the computer makes sweeping changes to yours and the computer players abilities. How else can you explain how easy it is when your master league team or your BAL are very poor. I think people who moan about how easy the game is don’t realise that the better your master league team or BAL gets the harder the game becomes. Your BAL with 60 for passing and shooting can pull off better passes and shots than your BAL with 80s. The opposition will play better, your team mates worse, you will get closed down more. Its like playing an arcade racing game with catch-up mode. Even in the piggy back guide it says that BAL on top player only means the opposition players play at top player, your teammates still only operate at profession. That maybe offering another level of difficulty but not on a level playing field and shows that the CPU can make sweeping changes to one team and not the other.

I happen to think that PES10 is the best to date. I’m not a huge fan of FIFA either so I’m not overly attacking PES. I still have all of the PES series and have checked which I deem the best, irrespective of graphics. The problems with PES10 arent new, they have generally always been there. But, they need to move on now. Not that I would care who makes the best football game, but EA have been moving in the right direction and theres a chance that FIFA could make the best all round football game soon. (on the pitch) Some people think they currently do. No one I know in real life, but so ive read :)

The player control element and the CPU interference are the intrinsic problems the game suffers from. All other issues are only minor gripes.

It’s good that we can agree and disagree at the same time, that’s rare indeed.

What I wanted to add is that I did some testing on PES 2010 yesterday, and noticed some things about the animations that add even more to what I’m saying. What I did is just watch the game move, zoomed in up close and in slo mo, and in particular I paid attention to the interaction between the player’s foot and the ball as he dribbles. When shooting, for the most part, the contact is good, but when dribbling the physical interaction is really really poor. I think though that at times it looks pretty good, but a lot of the “touches” a player makes when running with the ball seem to again be the yo-yo effect. By this I mean that the ball travels out in front of the player like a yo yo, instead of him actually advancing the ball physically. In fact, the key thing I noticed was a few times where it was very clear that the ball was moving PRIOR to the player reaching out to touch it (like magic). In fact, the ball moved quite a bit once (maybe over two feet) when the player hadn’t even touched it, and he also hadn’t even begun the animation to reach out to touch it!!! It may seem like I’m being overly analytical and picky, but I think PES need to improve this aspect of the game 10 fold, and if they do that it will go a long way to making the gameplay less robotic, more organic, even if from a distance it’s hard to see. I am also going to be bringing out Fifa 10 soon to play some of it and test it in the same way. As I remember it, Fifa is much much better in this regard, but also a bit too canned at times. Dribbling alone won’t make me play Fifa though, obviously, and it will probably be another couple of weeks before I play it again, just because I’m coming to the final 2 weeks of my ML, in the finals of everything major, and hoping to win it all with my up and coming Wolves side. Honestly I love this part of the season. It’s like those last climactic chapters in a good book, where everything matters but you don’t know for sure what’s going to happen.