Interfering With Play – Tuesday 9th February 2010
Posted by Dan Bolas in Interfering With Play on Tue 09 Feb
Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. This week has seen a fair amount going on in my personal life, along with a couple of new side projects I have on the go, and therefore this week’s IWP will be slightly shorter than usual. I would like to open up by saying I am looking into sorting out a copy of Winning Eleven to review, and hopefully will be able to provide some video footage of any improvements or ‘better’ features found in the game. This is following several e-mails I have received from Japanese / Asian visitors who constantly claim that PES is a weaker version of their franchise. I know that with exceptionally high import prices and the lack of ability to read Japanese, playing Winning Eleven simply isn’t a practical solution for most PES fans, but I am going to try and do my best to act on the community’s behalf and see just what the western world is missing! Stay tuned for more information! With that said, lets crack on with Interfering With Play.
“It’s Better The Devil You Know”
To start off this week, I am going to play a little Devil’s Advocate. Personally, I play a lot of passing football on PES. I believe football should be played on the ground and when watching sides like Arsenal & Barcelona in the ‘real world’ I always try to emulate their styles on Pro Evolution Soccer. When I have my Master League, I always look to build a team of technically strong players with a good first touch as opposed to just pace players, as a way of ensuring my style can be emulated correctly on the pitch. A style like this (short passing game) requires a strong midfield who have the ability to dribble as well as pass the ball quickly and accurately. It also requires the ability to create space, and when the moment arises, pick the killer through ball or hit the perfect shot. By reading the comments from the regulars within the community, I can see gamers play a similar style to myself, and therefore they want to see the midfield as the issue worked upon in future PES.
Last week, I mentioned the defensive aspect of the game which I felt needed to be improved if not completely overhauled, and yet people still believe that the midfield is the issue. In my opinion PES allows for the option to play good passing football through the middle if you so wish. PES also allows for the option to play a single target man, and hit long balls all day long looking for flick downs. Playing as Paris St. German, my tactic of hitting Hoarau with the long ball to allow for a knock down to Guily has produced many goals, and is a fully acceptable way of playing the game. Playing as Sevilla, I tend to work the ball into wide areas, to allow for Jesus Navas and Adriano to get 1 on 1 with their full backs. I would class this style of direct play, followed by them delivering the ball into Luis Fabiano and Kanoute as a genuine tactic, and one that is just as valid as any other.
By spending time overworking the midfield passing game, the fear will be that all gamers, and in turn all teams will end up playing the game through the midfield, which as a reflection of real football, quite simply isn’t the case. By starting on the defence, it allows the variety of different tactical styles a base on which to build. Upon winning the ball back, you players would then react in accordance to your tactics, be that spreading wide and long quickly in order to set up a counter attack, or flood the centre of the pitch to allow for a ball out into feet. Until defending becomes a skill as opposed to merely a side note, the development of other aspects of PES can not improve.
At the moment, chasing the ball with every player still brings up too much success. If John Terry came charging out of defence to win the ball, and it was played back, he wouldn’t carry on going in real life. Yet, on PES, the risk of bringing Terry out isn’t great enough, and 7 times out of 10, simply charging around after the ball will ultimately see you regain possession before the attacking team gets into an area whereby they can hurt you. Knocking a ball into the abandoned space would be a realistic tactic, but one the AI refuses to use. This would all relate to a more difficult game and more challenging defensive system. Do you leave the space at the risk of being caught out?
Playing on Top Player (there you go Dave O!) I have conceded 26 goals in around 100 matches. This is playing against a variety of teams ranging from top sides to less popular clubs, whilst in the same token I have scored around 200. This alone implies defending is still too easy, and whilst we all are asking for a more threatening, attacking opposing AI, a more realistic and difficult defending system would provide a genuine challenge and improvement in the gaming experience.
“It’s Genetic”
A very interesting point raised on the boards. At the time of writing my internet is actually disconnected, so I can not give credit by checking who said the exact quote, nor from which week it was from, but it ended up being something along the lines of “FIFA will always have Gameplay issues because of its genetic problem. The issues have plagued FIFA for years are still present in 2010, and will be in 2020.”
As I said, I can’t check the exact quote, but hopefully that gives you the idea of what is meant. Basically, FIFA, and indeed PES will always be burdened by the same issues. This takes it further to people who have been saying in the comments board for the past 18 months that PES is a dated game, and needs to be updated for the next generation. So my question is to you, what are these genetic disorders that make PES struggle nowadays?
The big two that seem to have come out are the animations and the AI. These are both things I can jump on board with. I mentioned the animations in my PES 2010 review being both dated and stale, and that Konami need to revamp all the old animations to keep up with some of the new ones that have been added. I personally love the Drogba heel flick that has been added to the game, but it looks very out of place with the before and after running movements. I will take a great deal of time to discuss animations in future weeks, and the AI is an issue that will be addressed at length too, but what, if any, other genetic issues are present in the current PES, that maybe were still giving you grief 5 years ago. Issues such as real player names have been since sorted out by Konami, and licensing, whilst still far from perfect, is getting better. The biggest genetic issues for me (other than the above) are the fact Konami constantly removes features, and that online is still not good enough. But I will leave the floor open to you guys, and we will hopefully look into it next week.
“Headstrong, I’ll Take You On”
Anyone who gets the link between this topic and its heading can have a pat on the back from me! Finally this week, I am going to just introduce a brand new concept to the world of football gaming, and indeed sports gaming. With people discussing old features such as the old one two systems in various PES and ISS games (which for the record, I pretty much despised) I looked back at a couple of my first posts in the PES Gaming forum (around 2003). One issue I spoke about was the way the ball was controlled by players and the way indeed players trapped the ball.
I am sure we have all been there. Playing PES, and the ball bobbles off your striker just before your about to pull the trigger. Of course, you blame the animated Defoe or Rooney; it’s not your fault it’s totally theirs. And you’d be right. There is no way of determining how your player controls the ball, and it comes down to a combination of body positioning, technical attributes, ball physics and seemingly in some cases, blind luck. In general, the better players do seem to control the ball with more consistency than say a Wolves centre back, but the ironic issue is that controlling the ball is pretty much out the gamer’s control.
This can be taken a step further to passing. When playing a first time pass on PES, it feels like the ball has travelled two motions as opposed to one. In other words, when passing the ball first time, it seems that your player has controlled the ball and generated the power for a new pass with the same accuracy all in one touch, something that in real football is far from the case, especially when angling a pass over a 90 degree angle. It is far too common in PES to play a ball into a CM from your CB, and have him play a first time pass to your striker whilst facing away from him, and it arrives with accuracy and quality.
At first, this may seem like an issue of centre midfield play, but it affects all styles of play. Having control over a high ball could be the difference between a target man choosing to flick the ball on or bring it down on his chest. It could be the difference in having your centre half control the high ball or hoof it into touch. It could be the difference between crossing the ball first time and taking that touch to ensure a more accurate delivery
My suggestion would be to use R2 or the right trigger as a button for controlling the ball, thus making ball control a conscious decision the gamer has to make. It is unique as no other sporting game offers this. In basketball games, players catch the ball automatically, in Cricket simulations, the fielders pick the ball up by themselves. But especially in a football game, the moment you receive the ball is the difference, and having control over how your touch is should be paramount. Imagine, as the ball travels towards your player, you press the shoulder button. Dependant on your timing, the ball may stick to your feet or bounce straight off you. The better players will have a greater margin for error, whereas the weaker player you are, the more accurate your timing will have to be. This means you will still be able to control the ball with Jody Craddock, but it is more likely he will miss-control a ball than Deco. The longer you hold the button down, the further you may knock the ball out your feet. Providing you get the initial press right, this may mean you can beat a defender with your first touch, or cushion a ball up for a volley, dependant on the height you receive it.
This would also bring hand balls back into the game. Miss-timing controlling a high ball would result in it either bouncing off your player, or your player using a hand to get the ball down. Again, it means the error is in your control, and again, there is a genuine risk reward method or choosing to control the ball as opposed to just putting your foot through it, or heading it away.
Of course, this would rely on a great detail of implementation, and ultimately would require an ultra responsive gaming system, but at the same time, it is a mode that would redefine football video gaming, and offer an entire new dimension to the way everyone plays the game. It would mean that skill and technique would have to be practised, and that even playing with Barcelona would require practise to ensure you controlled the ball before you went on a mazy run.
This is an issue I have a great deal upon, and have researched to quite sad levels, so if anyone has any questions about it, please get in touch. What I will say is I know there are gamers out there, the ones who cry for changes, may hate this idea, but it is this kind of thinking that is going to revolutionise gaming by physically thinking about the way we play the game. I am not saying this is the answer but it’s a start!
That’s your lot for this week. Slightly longer than planned but sometimes it just writes itself. Thank you as always for getting in touch, comments are always welcomed. interferingwithplay@hotmail.co.uk is the place to direct any e-mail to and if you have read anything you feel you can contribute to on PESGaming.com this week, please do not hesitate to get involved.
Thanks for Reading
GENETIC PROBLEMS WITH PES
1) Transfers and Player shirt numbers are never accurate despite having a team of more than 10 staffs for this department
2) Post-tackle player recovery is very slow and tussle is very ineffective
3) After the ball is cleared by head from the corner kick, the ball follows a particular trajectory.
4) I think Konami have to appoint some specialist for coding and animating goalkeepers.
5) Super humans play in the pitch, who can run all the 90 minutes.
6) Refs who consider every dive attempt as a foul
7) PES has got new disease with penalty shooting.
8) The poor ball does not obey the physics when its attempted on the goal, but it obeys when its passed.
9) The Crowd keeps chanting even after I switch off my computer. Are they Human or what?, I’m sick of hearing FRANCE-FRANCE-FRANCE all the 90+ minutes, this sound even comes when i dream.
10) Gallas plays every single game for Arsenal, but I have to rest him for every 3 match in ML. I hope Konami will Implement ‘ Development of FORM through training mode ‘
11) Inch perfect pass can be made, no one makes a mistake in trapping the ball.
12) When I play Manual pass, the opponent does not touch the ball even it goes very close to him.
13) No two players fighting for a Aerial ball go off-balance
14) No two players after a tackle get injured or go-down.
15) Goalkeeper like only the defender close to him, so he delivers the ball only to him.
Like wise there are many disorders, which they never consider curing. I just think Konmai are ignorant of such problems or are they lazy enough to cure it or are these problems not curable for current generation consoles. What ever, fixing these will surely improve the gameplay. Like this there are many many minor defects that go unnoticed. What would be the possible reason for this? Does the developer ignores them or Seabass asks them not to fix and waste time. Let us see if any of this small list is fixed in PES 2011. We look for a great degree of changes in gameplay, but Konami are not capable of dealing with these small things, which can be fixed in
less than one month.
very good news,try winning eleven 2010 ps3 and I am 100000% sure,our point of views with konami will change forever,it is the best football game in earth now..for information,there is english language menu in winning eleven.
I’ve also been dying to see improvements to the defending aspect of Pes. I agree it doesn’t require much thought these days and many things are really out of your control.
Recently I’ve mentioned how imo a reworked standing tackle system would really improve defending and add a lot more user input as opposed to the basic controls we have now. A better standing tackle system would give users a way to counter those really pacy players in certain situations without getting sent off, just like what we witness time and again in real matches. This would also in theory eliminate more open play goals but in turn bring in more goals from free kicks, penalties, and set piece plays.
In order for this system to work well Konami would need to improve a few other areas. First would be a decent collision system. The collision system that came with next gen Pes has been absolute crap, even coining the term ghost defenders. Is this a way for Konami to make the game more free flowing to appeal to casual gamers or is it just a result of negligence? One will never know but I feel it’s a high priority issue which would steer the game towards realism.
After that they’d need to improve the referees. Of course there has to be a fair punishment system for taking down that player bursting down the pitch. They have to take into account if the defender was the last man or if it was a genuine goal scoring opportunity. In most cases this would happen around the middle of the pitch and we’d walk away with a yellow card if anything at all. This is what happens all the time in real matches. Konami got it right for the most part in older installments where you can receive a yellow just for blocking a player bursting down the pitch. In the past they also took into account what deserves a yellow and what deserves a red fairly well and the decision was almost always the right one. These days slide tackles are the only surefire way of attempting “professional fouls” which is far from reality, and those slide tackles are all very random, leading to many undeserved straight reds. Imo this area is easy to fix, especially being how Konami had a much better grasp in older installments.
Very interesting idea on a revamped ball control system, one I definitely wouldn’t mind getting used to in a future Pes game but I think my finger would become exhausted and maybe cramped after having to hit the shoulder button every single time I receive the ball.
@2 have you tried it? and if you did how is the online mode? are there any lag ,or button delay problems?
By the way on 23rd of February is going out the update with the transfers of the players.
@5 Source?
The faults #1 mentioned are all true. However in the mods in this thread: http://www.pesgaming.com/showpost.php?p=1589328&postcount=116
Pretty much SOLVE the ai troubles! Including the midfield game and defending + fixed stupid goalkeepers. Do the mods, and see if it fixes your game to your liking! (though only easy to do for pc gamers)
Genetic problems with PES
1.Scripted and contrived momentum shifts much like sega rallys catch up system(to over egged).
2.Long pass placement is still dictated by the cpu you cant place the ball into space for players to run onto or spot a cross it just centres.
3.Goalkeeper kicks are not placeble they just go down the centre of the field.
4.Free-kick and set-piece system to one dimensional and restrictive.
5.Players move on a invisible grid.
6.Through balls to flat and strait and heavily dictated by player stats again to assisted.
7.Not enough curl or arc on the ball.
8.Poor of the ball movement players not reacting to the play or having descent positional sense.
9.Short passing to assisted always finding a player or always going to the player you dont want it to.
10.Inprecise player control thats restrictive and lacks feel.
11.The innability to place a shot again to assisted and not enough freedom and flexibilty given to the user.
12.Ai thats about as intelligent as a sunday league side.
13.Glitchy replays and gameplay.
14.Poor physics and collision system with balls deflecting not off the player but the space around them.
15.No sense of weight and feel in the ball with power bars that are to sensitive.
16.No fluidity everything feels on rails and low percentage play rarely works.
17.You win by using the codes weaknessess to your advantage not playing football.
18.Lack of tricks
19.No true individuality coded into the players like individual physical and emotional traits that they exhibit in football matches.
20.Paper,scissors,stone cpu decision making.
21.Arcade gameplay no real depth or layers of player control and no option to have a less assisted game unless you use the right thumbstick which is akward and doesnt work properly.
22.No continuity one step forward to steps back.
23.Dated tired engine that worked well on the ps2 but is to inadequate for a next gen console.
P.S i was lucky enough to play fifa world cup 2010 at a press event held by ea at stamford bridge in late january and ea have now surpassed pes2010s graphics and visuals plus made additional tweaks to fifa10s gameplay that make fifa world cup 2010 the definative take on the real game.
Konami be afraid be very afraid.
@ 10 Dopecoil
It was only a matter of time before FIFA put the final nail in the PES coffin unfortunately! I think you said it all really with the ammount of things Konami need to address to even come close to FIFA’s realism. Basic things like the keeper only kicking the ball in one direction and throwing it out to random players says it all about the effort they have been putting into detail! The basics of the game like passing and shooting in the direction you tell it and the players running/moving like their real life counterparts should have been incorporated years ago. Shame Konami as you havent got a chance of catching up because as soon as FIFA realises what it does wrong (not much, and will have a good chance of fixing them for FIFA 11) and fixes it, PES will be dead!
Steve67 11
You wont have to wait till fifa11 bud,fifa world cup 2010 takes shooting and crossing to another level with fantastic player facial modelling.You can now change the tradjectory on the ball on shots and players let the ball drop in front of them more on long passes rather then always chest trapping.
I would have to agree with Dopecoil on that… for all the flaws that FIFA haves, PES feels worst at times.
For me the problem with FIFA is that even though the animations are clearly superior, and even though passing doesn’t haves that “on-rails” feel to it…
The game is still very repetitive and midfield battles are still too automatic in the sense that they don’t actually require any type of tactical thinking.
Everything is focused on technical play and we only have the “pass and tap R2″ play that FIFA copied from PES and also the R1 button to set-up attacking runs.
I mean, in real-life football you can have the greatest passer of the ball -but- without good suuport off the ball he will not do any damage.
I don’t feel like the difference between technical and tactical abilities is respected by either FIFA or PES. I feel like the game is limited only to the technical approach of the game.
And it is understandable because the size of the pitch is custom-made for 10 minute games. For example, with PES we have a passing system that feels like it’s on rails, this is perhaps the most noticeable aspect of the current-gen PES. It feels like it’s on rails.
We have blaimed the animations for this, etc, etc. But again, FIFA haves good animations and yet also feels like it’s on rails, at least in my opinion. This haves a lot to do with the disproportion between the size of the players and the space available on the pitch.
The pitch is too small in relation to the size of the players, there is little variation in terms of passing the ball. With FIFA10 we do get to measure the weight on the pass, but it still isn’t enough in my opinion.
Passes go to the same exact space over and over again, giving the game the same old repetitive DNA, there is simply not enough space available on the pitch; which is why the AI needs to be dumb, allowing you to easily read and exploit the game’s repetitive gameplay mechanics.
I think this affects both games, as both games are custom-made for quick 10 Minute matches. However in my opinion, FIFA10 is better than PES10 in this respect because at least it requires that bit more skill in terms of technical play.
So I do agree with some of things that Dopecoil points out, however, I just don’t agree when he says that FIFA10 is near perfection.
I mean, the pitch is so small that we don’t really have enough space to play a realistic game of football, not enough space for realistic passing which gives the game that “on-rails” or repetitive feel.
And passing the ball will always affect midfield play, if passing is one dimensional = midfield play will be one dimensional. Which is why it’s so easy to stroke the ball around with any team.
Bottom Line: I think Konami should make the pitch larger, or like Duffman suggested, we should have different settings for size of the pitch, etc, etc.
And with more space available on the pitch, passing and movement will be less one-dimensional as you would have more possibilities when creating play. We would also have more time/space to implement concepts that are impossible to fit into the current 10 Minute Mold.
I think the game should simply grow-up: we need more time and space on the pitch to add the substance that these games are currently lacking.
Amateur
Finally Konami has thought about off-the-ball-movement and AI, I’m very happy. The first news about PES2011 is promising. WE2011 is expected soon in november !!! So is PES2011 :)
PES 2011 first news !!!
Source: WENB
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Winning Eleven has seen yearly installments on the PS3 and Xbox 360. But it looks like we’ve just been getting a preview of things to come for the series.
In an interview in the recent issue of Famitsu, series producer (and originally programmer) Shingo “Seabass” Takatsuka cited the criticisms Winning Eleven has taken over the years, particularly in Europe, and promised for this year a Winning Eleven that’s been powered up many levels.
The updates will come in both graphics and gameplay areas. Winning Eleven games until now, he said, have been just extensions of the Famicom era. Players were fine with this through the PlayStation 2 , but the development staff now need to change their concepts and ideas to something more appropriate for the new generation machines like Xbox 360 and PS3.
He wouldn’t give share specifics about what kind of changes to expect, but he did say that the area of the game that most clearly shows the changes is the relationship between AI and player motions.
The changes will have an effect on how the game controls, said Takatsuka. Until now, they’ve had a “Famicom-like” belief that good controls means fast movement. But it isn’t this simple. Particularly on the new hardware, this type of thinking will lead to players being too fast. Some players in Europe have actually complained that the game’s tempo is too fast. On the other hand, some players do seem to like faster speeds. The staff will be taking balance into account during the tuning process.
Despite all the changes, Takatsuka said to expect the new Winning Eleven between November and December. The game is currently 30% complete.
24.Cant change the tradjectory of the ball or minipulate the level of elevation on crosses,long passes and shots.
What is fundamentally wrong with pes is its core gameplay and engine mechanics it uses a game engine that is heavily dependant on outcomes being pre-decided in the coding process rather then konami creating a game and engine that gives the user a virtual playground or toy set where outcomes are decided more on your ability and skill and good decision making ie getting tackles in at the right time,holding the ball up,effective use of space and good well timed ball placement by the user.No player in pes acts independently or has a sense of his positional qualities and how that player should react to the given situation and the movements of his teammates around him because it uses a primitive form of ai that gives pes that rubber banding feel or maths sub routine whereby players cant act independently from the grid or pre-set pathways that have been assigend to them in the coding process.
This is why without a new rebuild pes will continue to stay stagnent because the current engine cannot cope with the complexities of the ai and physics that we all want in a next gen pes.
Also, this is why even though I agree with Dan Bolas when he says that the defensive game needs to improve… I just don’t see how a better defensive system will fix the game’s repetitiveness.
So even with a more effective defensive system… it will not change the gamelay concept in any way, it will only adapt to the concept. The game would still be boring to play and even more fans would replace PES with FIFA.
I don’t think anything can fix the game’s repetitiveness as I believe it’s all simple maths. The 10 Minute Approach is full, and the only things left to do are simply superficial.
We need more space on pitch so that passing and movement evolves, once this happens everything else will be easy because passing and movement determines everything else.
freak08 15
In other words seabass is acknowledging how ahead ea in the field of ai and player movement.
Sounds promising but the proof will be in the eating,if the last three years has taught me anything its to be sinnicle until proven otherwise.
@2, and Dan. I have Winning Eleven also. When you first load up the game, there is an option for English language or Japanese. If you choose English, all the menus etc are in English, so it’s no problem there
Also Dan, regarding import prices. I got my copy of Winning Eleven on Ebay for €35 (about £28, I think), including postage, so it’s actually cheaper to buy than PES!
^^ It was a brand new copy that I got
@ freak08,
It does sounds promising indeed… What I hope is to hear more and more importance being put into off-the-ball play.
Once we have a good system for passing and movement, everything else will also evolve -however- I cannot see this happening under the 10 Minute Limitation.
I’m hoping Konami takes the lead this time around, be the first company to say “you know what, I will stretch the lenght and width of the pitch to more realistic proportions, and I will change the way we play the game”.
Once EA Sports polishes FIFA08 to it’s fullest, I can easily see them making the pitch larger in order to implement more substance and depth into the game.
I have a slight preference for Konami, but honestly, I don’t really care about who takes the lead in this respect… the sooner the better.
I also think that whomever takes the lead in that respect will gain some important ground because -eventually- both EA and Konami will need to stretch the length and width of the pitch in order to implement more substance and depth into the game.
All the same, it’s very unlikely that either EA or Konami will break the mold this year. Like last year, it sounds promising the first time you read it, but then you get the feeling it’s all BS.
For my part, I will only get excited and hopeful -only- if Konami mention something about stretching length and wide of the pitch to realistic proprotions. I cannot see the game improving much further or as much as I would like under the current 10 Minute Concept.
As the news suggests, I think Konami is working on the same engine. And they are now talking about TEMPO of the game. As the news also states that 30 % is over, what you guys think it would be?
If it would be the same TEMPO concept I stated in WENB, then I can see the game is going to the next level !! What ever, for PES 2011 it should be animations + AI + OTBM. These three things can be concentrated more so that at least they finish them and no further improvements is needed (considering ONE year of development). As these three along with Tempo is fixed, we see a new and dynamic gameplay.
At the mean time, I hope they have another team which work on a new engine for PES2012.
AMATUER 22
Ea have already changed the look and scale of the pitches in fifa world cup 2010 plus they have made some quite drastic improvements to the shooting of fifa10 and crossing with players winning the ball more on crosses plus moving more to the direction you place the ball rather then being so static.You also have to line up better on crosses and there quality is effected more by the ability of the crosser.
You will be pleasently suprised at the end of april.
@ Amateur
Width of the pitch
I’m not sure that they will consider this for PES2011, may be they are working for PES2012. Since its 30% of work already done, I see if width is enlarged, then all the coding has to be reworked, as of the konami’s gameplay you have to correct all the factors like ball trapping, long, short and through balls, etc. I think they will also have to Adjust the AI to play in the extra space added. And also all the stadiums has to be reworked. Since much time is left on the calendar, and if strong suggestions go to Konami, by many of us, they may consider this for PES2011.
_____________________________
Length of the Game
10 minute match should be the minimum timing, but we hear they are working on the tempo as well, so we can consider some slow and realistic game pace with OTBM and better AI taken into account.
RE winning eleven 2010
Theres not a huge difference between pes2010 and we2010 apart from a harder difficuty level and a few slight differences in gameplay that do fix or in anyway improve the core problems with pes2010.
Button lag is still a problem as is most of the other faults listed on here the only difference being the games more balanced in superstar and offers more of a challenge.
@ freak08, Post 23
I haven’t read your tempo idea, but I’m sure it’s good. I will read it and then comment on it, when I have the time.
I also have my own idea for how tempo should work, how momentum shifts should occur throughout the match. I think we must have the power of dictating and manipulating how the tempo flows throughout the game, it should have a lot to do with the following factos:
* Stamina, should drain faster, but also re-charge faster. So that if you over-use someone like Francesco Totti, he will be physically unavailable for the subsequent plays or until he recovers some energy.
* And for example, if you have a particular gameplan for your next game -and- things don’t go as expected, this should harm the off the ball ability of the team because it would mean that the other team is playing their game.
So when you have a gameplan and things work as expected the team confidence improves because the players believe in your system. And when the team confidence improves, off the ball movement improves, therefore the momentum will be in your favor.
On the other hand, if you have no idea of what you’re doing and your system is not doing you any favors, the team confidence will drop because your players are lost.
So it’s pretty much dictating the accuracy of your team’s off the ball movement -instead- of having the COM dictating momentum shifts for you, at random times.
I think it should have a lot to do with managerial skills and stamina, which is why we need a better concept for off the ball movement.
But like I’ve said a few times, I cannot see off the ball play improving enough under the current time restriction, we need more space (and therefore more time) on the pitch in order to have better gameplay mechanics.
Like you mentioned, it does sounds like it’s the same old engine… So I’m guessing I’ll have to wait until 2012 to see the type of improvement that I’d like to have.
@ Dopecoil, Post 24
That sounds good, looks like EA are starting to work a bit more on player individuality. I will surely give the FIFA World Cup game a try to see just how much of an improvement it is and to where it will lead to.
@ freak08,
Yeah but my point is that the tempo is fast -not- because of the pace, but because the space available on the pitch is too small.
Perhaps the pace is a bit too fast, but I think space haves more to do with it. With more space we get more time… therefore regardless of the actual speed of the players, the game will be slower and will require more time as well.
@ Amateur
I’ve NOT explained the TEMPO in detail, but have asked Konami to do research in that and implement them.
In accordance to that, I have an idea of making it user-friendly by making this user-interface.
See if this can be implemented and will it work ? And do you suggest any improvement in this idea, please share.
http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2416
Dan said: “It is far too common in PES to play a ball into a CM from your CB, and have him play a first time pass to your striker whilst facing away from him, and it arrives with accuracy and quality.”
…I think that is another way of saying what I was saying last week, which is that although they need to improve the defensive aspect, they also need to make the offensive passing and shooting less easy to pull off. And here your idea of trapping also comes into play.
The best example of where this needs to be fixed though is something I noticed in a game last week. I am still used to the older PES versions, where in order to make a shot effective your player really needs to be in the right position, on their proper foot and also not off-balance (if you know what I mean). Players with higher shot technique will be better at pulling off shots when under pressure or off balance, but my point is that in PES 2010 there are certain shots one can pull off with shot accuracy under 90 which are actually nearly impossible in real life. I’ve seen quite a few of these in PES 2010, but the one the other night was clearly impossible. Basically if a player is going to hit a long high screamer they can’t be leaning back and hit it with the outside of their boot! In real life you need to get over the ball, and if you are right footed this means the ball is ahead of you and slightly to your in-step. Timing is critical too.
In this respect I also agree with Dan that the main problem for Konami is not what they gain from previous versions “genetically” but what they take away. In other words, I think they have better genetics than they are currently showing. In older versions it was always down to player skill in terms of timing and shaping up your shot properly, whereas in 2010 it’s all just a matter of pressing the button. Same goes for passing, and this includes the fact that blind/backheel passing should not be so easy. Yes, improve the defense, but this side of things needs to be fixed first IMO. On the defensive side is where I think more of the genetic disorder lies. PES has always been about pressing, but maybe one could say, again, that this year it’s worse because there is less of a ramification for pressing up too much due to the new zonal marking system…?
hey u guys got this from pesfan.com
seabass interviw
Winning Eleven 2010. Media for this year’s installments has yet to be released.
Winning Eleven has seen yearly installments on the PS3 and Xbox 360. But it looks like we’ve just been getting a preview of things to come for the series.
In an interview in the recent issue of Famitsu, series producer (and originally programmer) Shingo “Seabass” Takatsuka cited the criticisms Winning Eleven has taken over the years, particularly in Europe, and promised for this year a Winning Eleven that’s been powered up many levels.
The updates will come in both graphics and gameplay areas. Winning Eleven games until now, he said, have been just extensions of the Famicom era. Players were fine with this through the PlayStation 2 , but the development staff now need to change their concepts and ideas to something more appropriate for the new generation machines like Xbox 360 and PS3.
He wouldn’t give share specifics about what kind of changes to expect, but he did say that the area of the game that most clearly shows the changes is the relationship between AI and player motions.
The changes will have an effect on how the game controls, said Takatsuka. Until now, they’ve had a “Famicom-like” belief that good controls means fast movement. But it isn’t this simple. Particularly on the new hardware, this type of thinking will lead to players being too fast. Some players in Europe have actually complained that the game’s tempo is too fast. On the other hand, some players do seem to like faster speeds. The staff will be taking balance into account during the tuning process.
Despite all the changes, Takatsuka said to expect the new Winning Eleven between November and December. The game is currently 30% complete.
I always played pes, but i must say FIFA 10′ is a bit better…
@ Dave O,
Fully agree… I said the same thing the other day, improving the defensive game and leaving the core gameplay mechanics the same will do nothing at all attack.
The game needs a massive improvement in terms of off the ball play. The first improvement should be to stretch the length and width of the pitch.
This will prevent the unrealistic defensive play that we currently have, where we usually have 3 to 4 players defending the same exact space; kinda like headless chickens running after the same guy.
The problem is that currently, the pitch is so small, that it doesn’t really matters. You can have 2 or 3 players defending on the same exact space, and you don’t even have to worry about open gaps, etc.
So if Konami simply stretched the length and width of the pitch to more realistic proportions -but- left the off the ball mechanics untouched — It would not change anything.
Instead we would have a larger pitch with unrealistically fast players running after the player in possession. So the idea is to stretch the pitch -and- also change the off the ball concept.
With more space on the pitch the players will need to be more intelligent off the ball. You should not have the luxury of having so many players defending so closely because they would leave huge open gaps elsewhere on the pitch.
Therefore, if the pace remains the same or perhaps even slows down a bit + Konami stretches the width and length of the pitch: the COM will need to be smarter, off the ball play would actually require thinking skills.
A better concept for off the ball support would go hand-in-hand with passing improvements. After we have better passing and movement, everything else will be simpler to do.
But improving on the defensive end -without- fixing the foundation in the first place… that would be a mistake IMO.
By the way, I agree that the PS2 PES versions didn’t have the “on-rails” passing, etc. But it did suffered from the same thing, the size of the pitch was too small, and it actually feels more like playing indoor.
So seabass announces that pes11 is still the same engine, with this year just being another retweak of 08…
I know UBISOFT are listening to the feedback on pes and fifa forums to help build their own football game, but you guys should send a few emails with some of your ideas anyway, see what happens…you may be asked to work on production…
After all, they want to challenge EA and conami, and who better to have on their side than disgruntled ex fans with a passion for the game and chock full of ideas.
+ FIFA world cup in just two months…play against people all over the world for your country…gonna be amazing, and a great insight into what’s coming for FIFA11
Email UBISOFT with ideas, and give the football game market the kick up the arse you’ve been waiting for
@ post 1, True true true. Good comments.
This is going to be the best football gaming year in recent times
Fifa is going to improve its game, first with World cup, then with Fifa 11
Pes 2011 promises to finally abandon the ps2 gaming formula
and then there is the Ubisoft football game, that will be announced next week, you heard first here.
i wouldnt get too excited over the ubisoft football game, But i strongly believe that Seabass is takin notice of our rants, he wants to give us what we want so hopefully Konami can impliment most of the things we ask for time and time again, also remove the things that hold pes back, i love pes 2010, it took a while to love it for what it is and not let the short comings stand in the way of my enjoyment, but if we get the pes we all want this year it should be something really special, but as ever, i reserve judgement until its released, but for some bizzare reason, i actually have a good feeling about pes 2011, wait and see.
Dopecoil,
I just played PES10…
The problem for me is that I don’t feel in control of my team, it’s like I only tap a button for passing and shooting the ball -whereas- the COM dictates everything else for me.
The pitch looks very realistic in terms of size, but that’s about it, it only looks big, it’s an impression. I mean, as soon as I try to move or pass the ball — it’s like I barely have any space at all, which gives the game a strange “on-rails” feel.
So perhaps I was wrong when I said that the pitch should be larger, perhaps it’s got more to do with lack of precision and control and animations; something you have mentioned a few times.
I do agree with you on that one, however I don’t agree with your idea of how off the ball play should work.
Bottom Line: I think both FIFA10 and PES10 are very one dimensional in terms of off the ball play. However it’s important to point out that FIFA10 at least offers more precision and control both when attacking and defending.
How would you improve PES10 without turning it into FIFA10?
I agree with everyone that improving the defending would be a moot point if cpu attacking and core gameplay are left untouched. What myself and I believe Dan are saying is that this is just one area that has remained the same for a long time and a change is needed.
Agree with everyone about the passing as well. It’s ridiculous how accurate blind passes and backheels are. Agree with Dave that some of the shooting animations are just downright ridiculous. The other day I scored a piledriver outside the box after slipping backwards and toe poking the ball. That is not humanly possible and you’d never see this kind of action in Pes 3.
Those are 2 areas Konami implemented much better in the past. That’s why for me, Konami’s genetic disorder is their 1 step forward, 2 steps back approach. The constant and needless removal of good features and gameplay which means the gameplay has even gone backwards with the latest installment. Even very simple things from the PS2 like seeing who scored and assisted when you pause the game, the superior amount of individual end match info (including motm awards), or the “load general settings” where you can instantly load a World Cup layout instead of adding teams 1 by 1 every single time. Even going as far as idiot proofing throw-ins when it was perfect in the past. These are all things that are very easy to deliver yet after 3 years on a PS3 they are still mia. Not really a big deal as long as they spent the time making the gameplay excellent but that’s not the case either so they have no excuses.
There was not much wrong with the gameplay of the much older Pes and ISS games. Konami should’ve adhered to the saying if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. But Pes 2010 is broke so they really need to fix it lol.
Come on Ubisoft, sort these hasbeens out!
Good news at last!
Seabass and your promises….
Solution for Konami: fire Seabass and all pes staff…
hear me Konami: contract new guys, NOW!!! (european and south americans for supervisors producers)
Unless the game’s pace is reduced, neither defending nor play-making can be made tactical. Last year it was all about Zonal defending ( IMO, which failed during counter attacks), this year they are working on game’s pace. So tweaking the defense along with decent game’s pace would result in a new dimension for the defending as well as build-up from the back 4.
I’m more worried about the AI and OTBM, they can implement that perfectly. But It may then play something like FIFA, and chances of losing the individuality is more. The game may over-ride the individuality and work on the difficulty basis.
Once the game’s pace is reduced, obviously they have to consider including more substance to the game to cover the time-gap. And if OTBM is not great with slow pace, then the game will look more scripted and people will get frustrated and try long range shots (like FIFA 07).
I’m more than happy with the same defense of PES2010, but after that the important is the Goalkeeper AI, since i believe Konami is now making the ball physics more realistic, so the ball would curve and dip and bounce perfectly. They got to work on with GK also. If GK is the same, then we see complaints coming very soon.
So, Instead of working on defensive systems including the back 4 and DMF, they can spend time only on one man on the pitch that’s GK, they can make the GK AI more smarter and give him full controls like delivering balls and some other special animations etc. If all the defense is good and GK the same, its not going to make a difference.
They also have to make the Com AI very smarter, for example I have hardly seen Com making a 1-2 pass to break my defense.
For defense part, konami should give us the option of changing the defensive tactic of marking types on-the-fly. like, in normal time they should do zonal marking, but when the team is under pressure , I should make a defensive strategy by tapping a button so that the defensive organization changes to Man marking.
I’ve given some defensive controls in previous week’s IWP, lets see if Konami is giving us the freedom in terms of one-on-one defending.
@ freak08, Post 43
That’s exactly the challenge, the game needs to be slowed down, but slowing the game down and leaving everything else the same will only enhance the flaws of the game.
So the point is to slow the game down but also fill the new space/time with substance.
I think the game should open-up in terms of off the ball play. After we actually have to think in order to find and create the space that we use -only- after should Konami start improving on the technical side.
I also think that because the game should be slower, the technical side of the game must also improve: more dribbling tricks, more animations, better controls for dribbling, etc.
Have you read the thing about UBISOFT… it sounds cool but I think it takes years of experience. Can you imagine them making a better game than FIFA10 and PES10 in less than two year’s time?
@ Amateur
The Ubisoft game for Nintendo DS ” REAL FOOTBALL 2008 ” has this feature :
Advanced, dynamic artificial intelligence: Your team-mates and opponents adapt your playing style, offering never-before-seen strategy depth. You’ll see them run the ball, use defense pressing, or even be replaced based on the decisions that you make.
And by seeing the animation and creativity in the trailer of “Academy of Champions” a game for Wii by Ubisoft, its clear that they can deliver a ‘good game’. And looking at other game titles by Ubisoft, I consider them as NOT LAZY as Konami. Now its all dependent on how they make the game-modes like ML/BAL,etc
They know very well that making a game which is better than PES/FIFA is the key to stay in market, or at least making the same game, with a new level of control or something different so that it does not play like PES/FIFA , but gives the user a new feel in football gaming. If they can impress us with a good control over gameplay and user freedom, then is going to be UBISOFT. We do not know how the game will work and how the player stats are.
By considering the involvement and innovation of Staffs at Ubisoft, and this plan of making football game was 2 years before, And everyone is frustrated with PES/FIFA, they can really make a difference.
The news i got was they are working on 7 teams from EPL, so they can perfectly design every one out there.Now its all dependent on the gameplay and I do not doubt the graphics or animation as they are experienced in that department. I hope they make a new engine which is flexible enough to improve in the coming years unlike Konami’s flawed engine.
Ubisoft will try its best for the First and best impression. Lets hope it plays differently than both PES and FIFA adding a new dimension and teaching lessons to PES and FIFA.
When is this Ubisoft game supposed to come out?
@ post 42 (Babao)
I share the same opinion that Seabass and his team must be removed from the development of PES on the next gen console. No more evidence should be needed for anyone to see that he is out of his “league” on next gen. He probably should remain on PS2 developments.
The spring release of Winning Eleven 2010 is intended for the Japanese market only. It will not feature any improvements to licenses outside of Japan nor will it boast any improvements to the gameplay or online features. It is just a “J-League vs the Rest of the World” build intended to attract national fans. Please do not expect any improvements in gameplay….there will be none.
As for PES 2011….Development has started out the same as 2008 2009 and 2010 with promises but very little information. Currently, I am the bearer of bad news for Konami but they have not proven me wrong for the last 3 years. There is no way they could have a 30% build of PES 2011 this early unless nothing is being done to the game. I have said this over and over and over again. If a development team with such standings (#1 for while) capital and the backing of the millions of fans to the #1 sport in the world, cannot provide a game with a flawless online environment…..they cannot provide a game.
To this day PES benchmark will be its online capabilities. Online drives the sale of all current titles. Believe it or not, COD franchise is not popular for stunning graphics or gameplay…its the online that grabs fans. It is flawless.
New titles such as MAG for PS3 does not boast jaw dropping graphics but is advertises the inclusion of 256 player online at once.
Now, not all gamers play online but by stats, at least 82%
of them do. I raise these points to say this, Fifa may not be a much better simulation that PES but they have one of the most important aspect of the game correct…ONLINE.
Konami/Seabass had no interest to move the title forward, their lack of innovation and improvements in the last three titles has shown how much time and money is spent…which translate to not much.
Now Dan, Dopecoil, Amateur and Dave O have really pointed out all the real problems that PES 2010 faces and all have extremely great ideas for the improvements of the game. However, what are the chances of any of these suggestions even reaching the ears of Konami. Konami doesn’t listen, they don’t respond and they don’t care. So Amateur’s larger size fields, Dan’s defense, Dopecoil’s AI and Gameplay and Dave’s ball physics and new game engine will never be realized in any game that Konami produces.
Fifa on the other hand seems a little bit more interested in improving their title and deserve the attention they have drawn to themselves. I will be giving them a chance this year.
“It’s Genetic”
Firstly, I must express how refreshing it is to be able to express my opinions here even if they are not supportive of PES/Konami/Seabass without being muffled or have my comments deleted then yellow carded and sent to a corner in a single specific thread of over 50,000 posts to complain with the other groaners and moaners. PESFAN Sucks Balls.
What is Genetic about PES?
Pes main genetics can easily be spotted by player who have been enjoying this title over the years.
Its the passing, its the running, its how they react or don’t react during.
The main problem with PES 2010 that many seem to not have noticed is the inclusion of the new animations. while some animations look really nice during gameplay..such as the overhead clearances from defense or the in-air heel back clearances ….the others have created havoc during gameplay.
Players now take extra touches and time to complete the animation. For instance, players do not just turn freely anymore, they take an extra touch and an extra step before completling the turn. This makes it easy to rob them of the ball. Controls take a longer time because their bodies are constantly adjusting to either kick or turn which result in them losing or fumbling the ball.
Running is also affected by the animaitons, touching the ball ahead leaves the player robustly trying to catch back up which result in the ball being hit into opponents easily. This gives the feeling as if you are not in control of the player because while you send the command of pass, run or turn the CPU then takes over to handle the animations. The result is what can be best described GAMELAG.
Whenever you hit the command for shoot, the command is sent but not before the animations are carried out..for example..Messi reaches the goal one on one with the keeper and you pick your corner and shoot. Notice that he does not shoot immediately at times. Instead, he chooses to turn slightly before shooting to “slot” the ball in the corner. This animations slows the game and even gives the keeper more time to react to pull off a save.
Therefore, the new animaitions were implemented on an engine that wasn’t responsive enough. Now if we had enough time to pull of these new moves they would be great but coupled with the fact that defenders chase you down like ants swarming sugar, speedy forwards coming back to help and the worst collisions ever seen on PES…makes the game harder to read and control.
I know many are not fans of Fifa, but every now and then i like interjecting some of the better stuff i have found with their game. The defensive Jockey system. look it up.
Instead of have your defenders run aimlessly at these speedy forwards, you can let them face them up without tackling. But better, you can them instruct him when to make a tackle. Unlike PES where the defense tackles on his own time.
Whats else is GENERIC about PES 2010….SEABASS.
EA SPORTS have better programmers because they manage to launch in one year 2 games and if these are all true in the interview……..bye bye SEABASS JACKASS
GS: What’s the main aim for FIFA World Cup 2010 in terms of gameplay and AI improvements? Are there any control changes we need to know about?
SH: The game is not just about visuals, though. The gameplay has over 100 enhancements–some major, others subtle–so players will notice a difference in how World Cup plays compared to FIFA. So here are just a few of the improvements you’ll get in World Cup. We’ll talk about other aspects of gameplay closer to release.
Responsiveness:
•New chest traps that allow you to chest the ball in the direction you want to go rather than having to take midair touches after a chest to change direction.
•The ability to let a ball drop over your shoulder and move off in the direction of ball travel. Great for preserving momentum with lofted through balls.
•Improved the problem of trapping the ball too far and being “stunned,” then taking too long to go and dribble the ball.
•Defensively players will now clear an aerial ball rather than do a chest trap first when you are asking for a clearance.
Goalkeeper:
•Improved the “narrowing down the angle” logic so the keeper doesn’t come out so soon and so far, making him vulnerable to the chip shot.
•Ability to change his save direction if there is a deflection.
•Added variety to punching, which results in punches sometimes not clearing the ball out of danger.
CPU Teams:
•Added more skill moves for the CPU to use depending on a player’s flair attribute or trait.
•Better understanding of game context and situation, resulting in more intelligent changes of tactics/mentality.
•Manager now looks at who he has as subs and will attempt to give star players on the bench some playing time (i.e. Fabregas for Spain; Pato for Brazil). Previously he would rely solely on match rating and fatigue, leading to unrealistic substitutions or the same one over and over again.
Positioning:
•Teammates will now take more factors into account when looking into space inside the box when they are making a run for a cross to be delivered. I can verify how exciting this is having seen the way that Emile Heskey bulldozed his way onto the end of a cross in Andorra the other day.
•Improved marking for when the CB pushes up to the ball possessor when he shouldn’t, leaving the team vulnerable to an easy through ball and 1-on-1 with the GK.
Shooting:
•Improved the realism of where players strike the ball to give more off-center strikes leading to more swerve and variety in ball trajectory.
•Changed the chip shot to make it more challenging and also to improve the feel of it–more backspin, better trajectory.
Passing:
•Added personality to crosses to allow better players to put in more driven crosses into the box.
•Added chest and shoulder passes.
•Lowered the amount of power you can get on backwards crosses and backwards lofted through balls, forcing you to roughly have to face the way you want to pass it to for these types of kicks to succeed.
Set Pieces:
•Ability to trigger a teammate run on a quick free kick.
•Lowered the likelihood of the CPU scoring from FKs–they were too good.
There are also brand-new features for gameplay. I am allowed to mention that each team will play differently at home or away if under CPU control. For example, Northern Ireland are great at Windsor Park, so they are way harder to beat there than they are on their travels. That makes qualifying for the World Cup Finals feel much more realistic, as you can beat the smaller nations at home quite easily, but away from home you may have an unexpected battle on your hands, and they are the games that define who qualifies.
FIFA World Cup 2010 is more of a business and should be the beta code of FIFA 2011.
PES fans have got something to celebrate with next installment, which is promising and the great gameplay will be back with good AI and new animation and better OTBM. Konami may have considered bringing a new control system, which should be unlike the ready-made controls.
Amateur 39
How would you improve PES10 without turning it into FIFA10?
Firstly animation the year is 2010 and sports titles have to have top grade animation the technology and resources are there if your prepared to spend the money and most other genres excel in this department.Its a sports title animation has to be fantastic.
2)Konami need to re-incorporate ISS/PERFECT strikers player movement system.How this worked was by just moving the stick the player walked with the ball on a 360 degree plain.To back peddle,feint and make angled movements much as pes and fifa does with just the use of the thumbstick you had to use the dash button in conjunction with the thumbstick movements which gave you much more precise player control and directional choice as you where controlling the players feet which allowed you to control the energy and momentum in the ball.
3)I would offer the user the choice of assisted,semi-assisted and manual passing,shooting and long passing as well as through balls but also embrace the scope the left thumbstick gives you on elevation especially on crosses,long passes and shots by simply pushing forward for top spin or lower crosses and shots or pulling back putting more backspin and elevation on the ball with greater control of spin and aftertouch when the ball leaves the players foot(realistic aftertouch not exaggerated)with the thumbstick or a aftertouch button.It would add a much needed layer that is missing from football games.This way you can hit or strike,through balls,passes,shots with the inside or outside of your boot and arc and curl the ball yourself,naturally player spin or curls stats would dictate the level of spin the user could put on the ball as well as passing stats deciding the accuracy and size of the invisible square the ball is placed into with better players hitting into a much smaller square or window and weaker players a much larger square or window.This in turn would be applied to the goalkeeper who like any outfield player should have full directional control.
4)I would overhaul the free-kick,set piece and penaltie system,let us see the position of the ball and goal from different angles and give us a visible elevation and directional arrow so we can tee free kicks up and choose the height the ball is struck.When the ball is struck we should then be able to put spin to aid the balls direction for more pinpoint placemnent.With penalties keep it where your facing the goal and give the user a visible square that can be toggled on or off so we can direct the ball where we want the better the player the smaller the square.
5)AI,again take it back to ISS/PERFECT STRIKER that had clever ai much like fifa10 where players off the ball understood there role and when to break forward and when to offer more of a defensive role with more individual player characteristics coming to the fore like rooneys desire to win and forwards heads dropping when you mis-cue and motivation levels from players soring when the user is turning the skill on and using the width and length of the pitch well with pin-point passing and creative play.Drop momentum shifts that favour the team behind let a team that is being beaten earn its right to get back in the game by keeping the ball and playing better the team in front should always have the edge.
6)One two system,have a one-two button that you can use in conjunction with the pass,long pass and through ball buttons holding any one of these buttons after you have laid the ball off to the reciever so he holds the ball while you control the runner releasing the relevant button when you want the ball back this way you can time your one-twos to beat the offside trap.
I could go on and on theres so much from ISS/PERFECT striker that would make pes a more superior game then fifa10 but konami seem unable to realise this where-as fifa and ea are now copying this old series almost to the letter and people are loving it.
Just lost a champions league semi-final on f*%cking penalties.
The new penalty system is terrible! The opposition kept on putting there penalties right down the middle, so I thought it would be a good idea to keep my keeper in the middle of the goal. Four times they sent the ball straight down the middle (which in itself is crap) and four times the ball hit my keeper and still went in . . . what a load of c*ap.
Heres hoping KONAMI get blown out of the water in regards to sales next year. That will get them to sit up and listen. Hit em where it hurts . . .
Amateur 39
7)Bring back the trap button which was also the long pass button in ISS/perfect striker that allowed you the choice of whether to chest trap the ball and hit a instant long pass or volley or let the ball drop to be trapped by your feet dont let the cpu decide and make it automatic.
8)Headers,make it so that if you press the pass or shot button when the ball is at the level of the players head he heads it and if the ball is at chest level the player chests it when you press the pass or shot button also if the long pass button is pressed when the ball is at the level of the players head he loops it more.
9)Allow us to use the shot button for harder crossses and long balls dont make it centre all the time,this would tie in with a less assisted shooting system.
Amateur 39
10)Player body position in relation to the ball,ISS/PERFECT STRIKER excelled in this regard as your players body and foot position was everything when making passes,shots,long passes and through balls as it is in real life with the distance of the ball in relation to the body and foot position effecting placement as well as accuracy.
Having dusted off FIFA10 last night, it reminded me about one area that PES is definitely better at.
Changing player. Unless I’m missing something, Fifas is terrible. In co-op mode it gets ridiculous who you are given control of.
If I could change one thing about PES (which happens to be a genetic problem), it would be to include a ‘catch up mode’ on/off option. Thats the one thing that will stop me playing PES as it infuriates me.
Duffman 55
If your talking about the cursor i have it one notch higher then the default in fifa10,this way it moves quickly to the player nearest the ball but also allows you to control players that have overlapped and are out of position even if the ball is nearer a different player.
In the default setting the cursor is slower on your prompt and tends to stay on the player your controlling which means when you do change the cursor to the player nearer the ball he is already moving so when the cursor is assigned to him you have already lost a yard or are moving.
Its just a case of tweaking it to how you like you can adjust so its just like pes or your own preference.
I find in fifa10 i have so much control of the cursor and my team rather then pes now where you have to accept three settings and adjust to there parameters.
Duffman 55
Your never going to have a perfect solution to cursor changes this is why both pes and fifa10 are better played from afar this way you can see and minipulate the whole team better rather then being to close to a particular portion of the pitch and not being able to see whos out of position and who needs to be brought back into position to cover runs or pockets of space.
@ 49
where is the source? paste a link please
Great news by the way.
“Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. This week has seen a fair amount going on in my personal life, along with a couple of new side projects I have on the go, and therefore this week’s IWP will be slightly shorter than usual. I would like to open up by saying I am looking into sorting out a copy of Winning Eleven to review, and hopefully will be able to provide some video footage of any improvements or ‘better’ features found in the game. This is following several e-mails I have received from Japanese / Asian visitors who constantly claim that PES is a weaker version of their franchise. I know that with exceptionally high import prices and the lack of ability to read Japanese, playing Winning Eleven simply isn’t a practical solution for most PES fans, but I am going to try and do my best to act on the community’s behalf and see just what the western world is missing! Stay tuned for more information! With that said, lets crack on with Interfering With Play.
“It’s Better The Devil You Know”
To start off this week, I am going to play a little Devil’s Advocate. Personally, I play a lot of passing football on PES. I believe football should be played on the ground and when watching sides like Arsenal & Barcelona in the ‘real world’ I always try to emulate their styles on Pro Evolution Soccer. When I have my Master League, I always look to build a team of technically strong players with a good first touch as opposed to just pace players, as a way of ensuring my style can be emulated correctly on the pitch. A style like this (short passing game) requires a strong midfield who have the ability to dribble as well as pass the ball quickly and accurately. It also requires the ability to create space, and when the moment arises, pick the killer through ball or hit the perfect shot. By reading the comments from the regulars within the community, I can see gamers play a similar style to myself, and therefore they want to see the midfield as the issue worked upon in future PES.
Last week, I mentioned the defensive aspect of the game which I felt needed to be improved if not completely overhauled, and yet people still believe that the midfield is the issue.In my opinion PES allows for the option to play good passing football through the middle if you so wish. PES also allows for the option to play a single target man, and hit long balls all day long looking for flick downs.Playing as Paris St. German, my tactic of hitting Hoarau with the long ball to allow for a knock down to Guily has produced many goals, and is a fully acceptable way ofplaying the game. Playing as Sevilla, I tend to work the ball into wide areas, to allow for Jesus Navas and Adriano to get 1 on 1 with their full backs. I would class this style of direct play, followed by them deliveringthe ball into Luis Fabiano and Kanoute as a genuine tactic, and one that is just as valid as any other.
By spending time overworking the midfield passing game, the fear will be that all gamers, and in turn all teams will end up playing the game through the midfield, which as a reflection of real football, quite simply isn’t the case. By starting on the defence, it allows the variety of different tactical styles a base on which to build. Upon winningthe ball back, you players would then react in accordance to your tactics, be that spreading wide and long quickly in order to set up a counter attack, or flood the centre of the pitch to allow for a ball out into feet. Until defending becomes a skill as opposed to merely a side note, the development of other aspects of PES can not improve.
At the moment, chasing the ball with every player still brings up too much success. If John Terry came charging out of defence to win the ball, and it was played back, he wouldn’t carry on going in real life. Yet, on PES, the risk of bringing Terry out isn’t great enough, and 7 times out of 10, simply charging around afterthe ball will ultimately see you regain possession before the attacking team gets into an area whereby they can hurt you. Knocking a ball into the abandoned space would be a realistic tactic, but one the AI refuses to use. This would all relate to a more difficult game and more challenging defensive system. Do you leave the space at the risk of being caught out?
Playing on Top Player (there you go Dave O!) I have conceded 26 goals in around 100 matches. This is playing against a variety of teams ranging from top sides to less popular clubs, whilst in the same token I have scored around 200. This alone implies defending is still too easy, and whilst we all are asking for a more threatening, attacking opposing AI, a more realistic and difficult defending system would provide a genuine challenge and improvement in the gaming experience.
“It’s Genetic”
A very interesting point raised on the boards. At the time of writing my internet is actually disconnected, so I can not give credit by checking who said the exact quote, nor from which week it was from, but it ended up being something along the lines of “FIFA will always have Gameplay issues because of its genetic problem. The issues have plagued FIFA for years are still present in 2010, and will be in 2020.”
As I said, I can’t check the exact quote, but hopefully that gives you the idea of what is meant. Basically, FIFA, and indeed PES will always be burdened by the same issues. This takes it further to people who have been saying in the comments board for the past 18 months that PES is a dated game, and needs to be updated for the next generation. So my question is to you, what are thesegenetic disorders that make PES struggle nowadays?
The big two that seem to have come out are the animations and the AI. These are both things I can jump on board with. I mentioned the animationsin my PES 2010 review being both dated and stale, and that Konami need to revamp all the old animations to keep up with some of the new ones that have been added. I personally love the Drogba heel flick that has been added to the game, but it looks very out of place with the before and after running movements. I will take a great deal of time to discuss animations in future weeks, and the AI is an issue that will be addressed at length too, but what, if any, othergenetic issues are present in the current PES, that maybe were still giving you grief 5 years ago. Issues such as real player names have been since sorted out by Konami, and licensing, whilst still far from perfect, is getting better. The biggestgenetic issues for me (other than the above) are the fact Konami constantly removes features, and that online is still not good enough. But I will leave the floor open to you guys, and we will hopefully look into it next week.
“Headstrong, I’ll Take You On”
Anyone who gets the link between this topic and its heading can have a pat on the back from me! Finally this week, I am going to just introduce a brand new concept to the world offootball gaming, and indeed sports gaming. With people discussing old features such as the old one two systems in various PES and ISS games (which for the record, I pretty much despised) I looked back at a couple of my first posts in the PES Gaming forum (around 2003). One issue I spoke about was the way the ball was controlled by players and the way indeed players trapped the ball.
I am sure we have all been there. Playing PES, and the ball bobbles off your striker just before your about to pull the trigger. Of course, you blame the animated Defoe or Rooney; it’s not your fault it’s totally theirs. And you’d be right. There is no way of determining how your player controlsthe ball , and it comes down to a combination of body positioning, technical attributes, ball physics and seemingly in some cases, blind luck. In general, the betterplayers do seem to control the ball with more consistency than say a Wolves centre back, but the ironic issue is that controlling the ball is pretty much out the gamer’s control.
This can be taken a step further to passing. When playing a first time pass on PES, it feels like the ball has travelled two motions as opposed to one. In other words, when passing the ball first time, it seems that your player has controlled the ball and generated the power for a new pass with the same accuracy all in one touch, something that in real football is far from the case, especially when angling a pass over a 90 degree angle. It is far too common in PES to play a ball into a CM from your CB, and have him play a first time pass to your striker whilst facing away from him, and it arrives with accuracy and quality.
At first, this may seem like an issue of centre midfield play, but it affects all styles of play. Having control over a high ball could be the difference between a target man choosing to flick the ball on or bring it down on his chest. It could be the difference in having your centre half control the high ball or hoof it into touch. It could be the difference between crossing the ball first time and taking that touch to ensure a more accurate delivery
My suggestion would be to use R2 or the right trigger as a button for controlling the ball, thus making ball control a conscious decision the gamer has to make. It is unique as no other sporting game offers this. In basketball games, players catch the ball automatically, in Cricket simulations, the fielders pick the ball up by themselves. But especially in a football game, the moment you receive the ball is the difference, and having control over how your touch is should be paramount. Imagine, as the ball travels towards your player, you press the shoulder button. Dependant on your timing, the ball may stick to your feet or bounce straight off you. The better players will have a greater margin for error, whereas the weaker player you are, the more accurate your timing will have to be. This means you will still be able to control the ball with Jody Craddock, but it is more likely he will miss-control a ball than Deco. The longer you hold the button down, the further you may knock the ball out your feet. Providing you get the initial press right, this may mean you can beat a defender with your first touch, or cushion a ball up for a volley, dependant on the height you receive it.
This would also bring hand balls back into the game. Miss-timing controlling a high ball would result in it either bouncing off your player, or your player using a hand to get the ball down. Again, it means the error is in your control, and again, there is a genuine risk reward method or choosing to control the ball as opposed to just putting your foot through it, or heading it away.
Of course, this would rely on a great detail of implementation, and ultimately would require an ultra responsive gaming system, but at the same time, it is a mode that would redefine football video gaming, and offer an entire new dimension to the way everyone plays the game. It would mean that skill and technique would have to be practised, and that even playing with Barcelona would require practise to ensure you controlled the ball before you went on a mazy run.
This is an issue I have a great deal upon, and have researched to quite sad levels, so if anyone has any questions about it, please get in touch. What I will say is I know there are gamers out there, the ones who cry for changes, may hate this idea, but it is this kind of thinking that is going to revolutionise gaming by physically thinking about the way we play the game. I am not saying this is the answer but it’s a start!
That’s your lot for this week. Slightly longer than planned but sometimes it just writes itself. Thank you as always for getting in touch, comments are always welcomed. interferingwithplay@hotmail.co.uk is the place to direct any e-mail to and if you have read anything you feel you can contribute to on PESGaming.com this week, please do not hesitate to get involved.
Thanks for Reading”
your an idiot
Dopecoil,
I agree with a lot of your points, we need simpler but more precise control. In my opinion, the dribbling controls we use in PES are badly arranged. Why waste the L1 button on step-overs when there are clearly better options?
You have a good idea of how the game should improve on the technical side, the game needs massive improvements in terms of precision.
I don’t remember ISS very well… But anyways, I’m working on a post or article that is more specific about how I envision off the ball play.
When I do post it, I would like to hear from you if you think it could work well in conjunction with an ISS-type technical game.
Amateur 60
I would like that and will look out for your post on off the ball movement.
In my opinion the reason you find football games boring and one dimensional is because of the limitations of precise player control,after all football is about the joy of minipulating a ball around a pitch and effecting its momentum and kinetic energy one that developers have overlooked and forgotten for to long konami especially,although to EAs credit they are making huge strides in this area and are not going to take there foot off the peddle which will hopefully make konami a little more restrospective.
This is the missing link for you and what you really crave more immersion.
Regards
@55 I find Pes 2010’s player switching terrible. I play on semi-assisted and it never ever chooses the right player, especially for corners. Sometimes on defense I’d have to switch over 5 times just to get to the player I want, which is the most obvious player to take control of. Another simple area where Pes has clearly gone backwards. It always gave me the right player in the older games.
Just got a copy of PES 2010 on Wii and using the classic controller. Graphics aside this is hands down the best version of PES in a long time. Gameplay is great. Although it sticks to it’s 8 direction it plays beter than the ‘trippy’ 16pt on PS3 and 360.
Gamemodes include the master league with integrated Champs league and stand alone champs league and the champions road mode too. Not tried online yet but will leave a comment once I have.
For some reason the off the ball player movement seems to be a lot better on the wii than the PS3 too. Not seen much ‘holding hands’ with the AI player going on so far!! Whether or not it is because they have a different engine running the point and click controls and it comes over to the classic controller I’m not sure??
Anybody else got it? If you fancy a game just let me know!
@62 One of the many reasons I used to hate older fifa games was the player switching. It used to switch to ad-hoc players while defending. I hated it. Pes was really good at “reading my mind” and switching to the right player.
Another thing PES has lost over time. I don’t get it, why are they breaking things that we’re perfectly good!!
@64 AND 62
Strange, apart from cross ins and corners, PES10 seems much better at giving me who I want.
It might be down to you wanting to control different people than I want to control.
Having played FIFA10 again, for 2 days now, the player switching and other niggles have infuriated me to a point that I wont be playing it again. Although I might be tempted with be a pro mode.
Games are supposed to grow on you. Whenever I play FIFA, the opposite happens. It starts off promising.
Couple of bugs or issues to fix for 2011 assuming it’s based loosely on 2010.
1. Corners seem to go right to the player I’m controlling. Strange, as if the CPU is trying to pass to my player…
2. Want to be beaten by teams, not players only. PLaying top quality sides I find that players like Tevez, Benzema, Ronaldo, can beat me single-handedly. I lose in games occassionally due ot this, but rarely if ever do I lose to a great team performance.
number 2 is definitely an issue Dave O.
Rooney is the best player I’ve come up against so far.
Its his strength to bundle past players and retain possession that is hard to deal with. Other than taking him down sometimes it feels there is nothing you can do to stop him. Luckily the CPU isnt direct enough and doesnt utilise the teams best players as much.
Yes they should stand out, but not so much.
One of the SIMPLE and yet key things that is wrong with the game is the following: when defending, you have the same accuracy regardless of how fast you are moving.
For this reason, I can take someone like CR9 and run after the guy with the ball, and because CR9 is so fast and agile, I end-up winning possession too easily.
The game should force us into having to slow down in order to have more precision -and- only good defenders (regardless of how fast or slow they may be) should have the ability of being defensively accurate when going at their top speed.
This would only improve the game slightly, as it needs massive changes in the most fundamental areas of the game. But it is an improvement that should be realistic within a year, and yet would have a relevant effect on the gameplay.
Anyways…
Some attributes, like for example, Stamina, should be more relevant in-game. It’s not realistic at all to have lazy players running like Steven Gerrard, covering the same distance, etc.
Same thing for attacking players, Konami should divide it into three groups: players who run at you, players who shield the ball from you, and players who are good at both things.
For example, if you compare Zinedine Zidane with Kaka… Zidane never ran at players as often as Kaka does it, he lacked the speed to do it on a consistent basis.
However, something that Zidane could do that Kaka will never be able to do, is holding possession in tight spaces, holding possession without the need of using his pace.
Konami needs to work on more special animations for players like Zinedine Zidabne or Andres Iniesta, etc, etc.
Shingo “Seabass” Takatsuka talks balls ‘literally’ same comment every year for last three years ‘we recognise the problems and buy the next game and it will be great’ what he should say is ‘we recognise the problems buy the next game and we will add some more, kerrr-chinnngg’ or ‘buy the next game that will be badly done as we are spending too much time programming for other formats like mobile phone and wii, kerr-chinggg’.
Also one question to the guy who works for free on this site asking us to keep the faith every week, why in every review online and in magazines does Fifa get a higher score than PES but you say Fifa is not as good? Why isnt it as good? Online it is, gameplay it is, it has perfect names,teams,commentry. it has penaltys, it has better animation, so why all other experts wrong and you right?
Im a pes fan but l know Fifa is better lm not scared to admit this.
Micky P
Neither game is that brilliant.
But at the end of the day, I enjoy playing PES more than FIFA. Which has been the case over the last few years. Since the PS3 came out I havent played football games that much. They just havent hit the right note.
For me, FIFA seems to flatter to deceive. It actually gets worse the more you play. Reviews are done over a short period. So an instantly impressive game like Fifa will get rated higher than a game that grows on you.
Amateur. I agree that fast agile players are too good at defending. I think if they fixed a small area like that it would actually make a big difference to the game.
Dave O
good point with number 2
i have been doing so well in matches – then a certain player gets the ball runs throgh your defence like a knife through butter and taps in past the keeper!
i know they have to ahve good players ect but come on! why no good defenders that are just impassable!!!
Duffman,
I think many of the things that Dopecoil points out revolve around that SIMPLE yet very limiting flaw. We don’t have the technical precision that we should have.
If Konami find a way of implementing a stat for Defensive Speed or something along those lines, like the defensive equivalent for “dribbling speed”. If Konami can force us into having to play slower in order to win back possession of the ball, the game could improve a lot.
But we can see that even FIFA10, a game that gives us enough precision, still is not really enjoyable for some reason.
I think that both EA and Konami focus on different aspects of the game, and I think it has reached that point where the 10 Minute Mold cannot handle anymore substance.
As a result we have FIFA with more precision and better animations, but lesser individualism. And we have PES focusing more on player individuality, but very limited in terms of dribbling tricks and precision.
And we have a lot people saying “why doesn’t PES copies what FIFA does right?” or “why doesn’t FIFA copies what PES does better?”
If they make the game any smarter, they will be forced into adopting a new concept: a 20 Minute Concept, at the very least.
That will be harder and more expensive. Why would they risk loosing a cheap and profitable business? This is why at times I make the mistake of showing my frustration to people who have nothing to do with it, although I do think we should be harder on both EA and Konami.
Otherwise, I feel like Konami and EA will get the impression that our expectations are low and very easy to meet. Which in my opinion, isn’t the truth at all.
With regards to #2, I’m not complaining. I find the game is still far too easy. And, honestly, when a good player makes an impact in the game I am not really frustrated. I just want to see more team challenge as well.
I reckon the best way to get Seabass and Konami’s attention is not to complain about the problems with the game and then still buy it when it fails to meet simple expectations but to not purchase it when it does fail and only return to it when they have got themselves sorted.
Don’t get me wrong however, I am not saying we should not still make them aware of the problems.
Duffman
Sorry but thats rubbish the reviews are right, the magazines get the game long before the release date and have play tested the game alot (most reviews are from people who have been big fans of PES and know what they are talking about) if they reviewed the game again today you say it would get a higher score ‘no way’ it would probably get a lower score, the more l play the more problems l notice.
What we are seeing is the decline of the PES series, Konami are struggling to keep up with EA due to not having the budget to compete, thats why the commentry and annimations are so old fashioned they have no time to make it better after updating all the other areas of the game, this decline in the quality of the game all started with the release of next generation game consoles which take more cash to make games for, this is going to get worse for Konami not better.
I for one will not be buying the game this year on the release date, l will be giving it a week and reading alot of reviews before purchasing and if it is average the sales will be down giving Konami less budget for next year.
As agent smith would say ‘thats the sound of innevitability’.
Micky P
If you take the general feeling of many reviews you will get the gist of whether something is good or not. I am a believer in checking out a number of reviews before buying anything.
But, you also have to read into the review, not just look at the final score. A lot of what marks a game up or down may not be relevant to you. For instance Fifa gets a boost in ratings for things that I either dont care about or use. Like online, licences, music, commentary, animations. Also a lot of bugs that the game has were either not picked up or weren’t a big issue to the reviewer. For me, the curser change/changing player on Fifa is a bit of a game breaker. It, and a few other problems, make me dislike the game more over time. (more so than PES’s problems) I haven’t even tried the manager mode yet, but I’ve read it is bug ridden.
My opinion will always be more important (to me) than anyone else’s, especially in regards to football gaming, as its pretty much impossible to have more experience than me.
Unfortunately I wont be able to force either to make a better game by not purchasing them, as I buy both every year. (And other footy games if available) I have been told I have more money than sense. I counter that by saying that I have money because I have a lot of sense :)
Duffman
For me fifa10 just gets better and better the more i play it where as pes2010 gets worse.
Micky p,me and many others are pes fans but we are not in denial and can see the massive technical and gameplay differences between pes and fifa now.
Duffman
Where are all these bugs you talk about in fifa10 on the pitch,i have worked as a tester and in quality control and dont see all these bugs you talk about.
Fifa10 got such great scores based on its gameplay because it gives you a freedom on the pitch and levels of control and precision that most have dreamed of in pes for years, backed with animation that enhances this and a attention to detail in areas like instructions being called from the sidelines,dynamic weather,fantastic ai(both teamate and opposition),music,atmosphere.
Fifa10 gives you a canvas or tool set to exploit and utilise letting you create the script and drama if you have a football brain getting out what you put in,pes limits you to its rules and restrictions backed up with weak last gen presentation and sloppy sound fxs with a one dimensional limited control interface and cpu assisted passing and shooting.
duffman
As a example on pes2010/we2010 i can win most games 6-0 on top player or superstar by exploiting the weaknessess in the code and the dumb ai,whereas with fifa10 on world class the cpu counters my intelligent play and exploits any gaps i leave on the pitch with every game being different with tackling rates having to be high to counter pivetal points in the game by both me and the opposition.If the games tight it hard to score and very chess like with any mistakes being punished and good use of ball possession being key using both the length and width of the pitch.
Whether you see it or not fifa10 is clearly light years ahead of pes at the moment and both konami and seabass no this.
Its a good thing as it will only make pes better in the long run much like sonys entrance into the gaming market creating much more competition and better games,if it wasnt for sony games would be more expensive now and we would probably still be in 2d much as if it wasnt for fifa pes would still be 8-axis.
Dopecoil
To suggest I might be in denial because I dont agree with your opinions could be construed as arrogant.
You may be pes fans. I am not. I cant be in denial. There is nothing to deny. I also just dont care who makes the best whatever. I do recognise somethings that Fifa does better, but it doesnt mean its the better game, as it also does some things worse.
As I have pointed out before, I dont play either game that much, as they both have issues.
Even with the AI. Yes, there are some aspects where Fifa works well, but others where Pes works better. To just say, Fifa has better AI is at best generalising and at worse, wrong. If you try to stray away from doing the obvious pass or dribble, as Fifa doesnt try and second guess your actions, it gets cut out or you get tackled. But on PES, creativity, doing something different gets rewarded more often. (In my experience) Probably why Fifa is seen as a bit boring and repetitive by some.
Even the collision system isnt perfect on Fifa. Its weighted too much in favour of stronger players.
Crossing and heading doesnt work well.
Defences are too easily penetrated by long balls, through balls and counter attacks.
It takes too long to accelerate.
Button delay doesnt feel any better than PES.
I dont care when I score.
I dont like somethings about the goalies. They can be too easily beaten by some types of shots and not fallible enough with others. They are also terrible at defending long crosses.
I feel they have over complicated the dribbling system. It can be like playing a fighting game with complicated combinations and stick movements.
I cant get the cursor change to work properly. Why is it giving me the furthest away CB when I quite obviously want to be the FB or winger?
I do not like the menu music. Not that it matters.
The game has glitched and frozen during gameplay.
Although technically better, the commentary jibber jabbers to much, still gets repetitive and can get annoying.
I wouldnt say player stats are any better than Pes. Both have a lot wrong.
Yes more stadiums, but No, I dont care. I dont look at the stadiums when playing.
Animations are better but graphics are worse. Neither matter. Neither effect gameplay as both are just aesthetics.
I could go on.
Maybe, its just the modes you play and the way you play that works for you on Fifa. Even with more gameplay options, I cant get Fifa to play right. Thats not denial, thats just fact.
If I could get it to work for me, I’d be more than happy.
duffman
Even with the AI. Yes, there are some aspects where Fifa works well, but others where Pes works better. To just say, Fifa has better AI is at best generalising and at worse, wrong. If you try to stray away from doing the obvious pass or dribble, as Fifa doesnt try and second guess your actions, it gets cut out or you get tackled. But on PES, creativity, doing something different gets rewarded more often. (In my experience) Probably why Fifa is seen as a bit boring and repetitive by some.
Come on the ai is first rate in fifa10 as is the physicality system which is true and realistic unlike pes wheres its decided by the cpu,as far as variety in pes the ball always goes to the reciever as the ai is not intelligent enough to cope with balls into space or anything that falls outside of the rails or grid with a through ball that is flat,assisted and doesnt work from the wings when you have a forward on the shoulder of the last man and you want to curl it behind the defender,only ever really working on through passes to the man on the wings who hasnt got anyone near him.In fifa10 you have the freedom to spot a long pass anywhere on the pitch and change the height and have full control of power in the manual setting.Crosses can be spotted and in the manual setting can be placed where you want.As for the counter attacking in fifa10 this is how real football is as well as being able to hit effective long balls.
duffman
The trick system in fifa10 is intuitive natural and logical and adheres to real life dynamics and with practise and skill offers greater scope and depth and allows you to impart user individuality in the game not cpu contrived.
Even I play FIFA, I miss something that PES can deliver, I’m saying it for a long term gameplay like ML. PES is totally a different feeling and this is not complete in FIFA, for reviewers FIFA may look and play good. But at the end of the day It’s PES, which gives me the feeling of playing as team and building the team and winning the cups and leagues. FIFA cannot give me this level of commitment for ONE YEAR.
Now, as PES2010 was a great improvement and enjoying it, looking forward to next installment, they are listening and will make another great game. This time the game modes and gameplay should be detailed and interesting. With new animation matching FIFA and already having a good gameplay , improvements in this sector will further make PES a great game. The graphics should be more refined and hoping Konami is not removing any game feature :P
freak08
The master leagues all well and good but you still have to play matches and the gameplay on the pitch is very substandard now.Wouldnt even you want a better game on the pitch to compliment the other aspects of the ML.
duffman
The dribbling systems refined in fifa10 you can hold the ball up and slow it down with the dash trigger change direction and do 180 turns.Its so refined and subtle that tricks arent a requiremnet and with fifa10 you can make last ditch well timed tackles in the box when forwards are shaping up its not random like pes2010 with a high probabilty of a penaltie or miss timing.
Dopecoil – Do you ever stop gabbing and listen to how you sound? It’s like you have a microphone blasting pro-Fifa propaganda in everyone’s ear who disagrees with you.
What are those of us who don’t like Fifa 10 and are enjoying PES supposed to do? Say, “ok, I must be an idiot cause this guy says so?” What don’t you understand about the fact that different people have different opinions?
This site/blog is about a lot more than just which game is better. It’s not that black and white, and most of us have long moved past that basic and unproductive argument.
We’re here to talk about PES and what we want improved.
This can be positive, or negative, but it should always be as constructive as possible.
That being said, one more bug to point out for 2011 based on PES 2010 post-patch…
Before the patch it was much too easy to score on headers. They fixed this, and I like how it has opened up the game. More precise passing and playmaking in and around the box is what is needed now in order to score (though headers stilll work, just much less so). The gamplay is miles better as a result of the patch IMO, but in general the game rewards cut-backs a bit too much now. Aagin, this ties in with pass accuracy being too high IMO, and blind passes need to have a balance/technique factor implemented. It should be possible to arrow a pass across the crease through a defender’s legs to your open man in space, but this should be more difficult than it currently is, especially if your running towards the touchline and using a player with pass accuracy and technique which are below 90 (or whatever).
PEACE
http://www.pesfan.com/news/8813450/New-PES-2010-DLC-Announced/
I hope that new boots = gamplay improvements like it did last time. Even just an adjustment to the refs would be great to see…
@85
High probability of a penalty in Pes 2010? Lol what are you smoking? It’s damn near impossible to commit a penalty in Pes 2010.