Welcome to this week’s Interfering With Play. Slightly quieter week on PESGaming this week. Whilst grainy and unclear videos are being made available on various websites and forums, at the moment I am personally waiting to see what Konami offer next. For the past 3 years, we have tried to second guess how PES will look, feel and play and ultimately, been lead down garden paths. I am hoping that as the development stage progresses, more information will be released officially, and hopefully coupled with more HQ videos too. We don’t generate lies in our blogs, instead we discuss the facts and hopefully provoke debate on both Footballing and Video gaming issues when PES news is running dry. With this said, there is still plenty to talk about on PESGaming as we address the issue of goal line technology, speak about the quality of PES commentary and then finally the angle of PES 2011 With this said, lets get on with this week’s Interfering With Play.
“Talk Is Cheap”
It’s now pretty well documented that Mark Lawrenson has left the PES franchise, and has been replaced by ITV (UK) colour commentator, Jim Beglin. After hearing this, I spent some time going back over old copies of PES, and having a listen to arguably some of the most woeful examples of play by play commentary I could ever wish to hear, and I have been watching the World Cup on the BBC! With EA Sports providing the kind of audio coverage at home on Sky Sports, the age old question remains, do Konami really have the foggiest idea about football commentary?
The main issue facing any video game audio is the script. If you play any game that features repetitive actions, you are ultimately going to get repetitive audio triggers. There are few better examples than Buffy The Vampire Slayer on X Box. Here is a game that featured the vocal talent of many of the TV show’s stars, and had a witty and well planned script. However, after you have heard all the one liners a couple of times when killing an enemy or struggling to solve a puzzle, the quips became tedious. This is only magnified during football games, whereby the same actions may appear 10 or 12 times in a single game, and that repetition is ultimately inevitable. This is a development issue, and not strictly the fault of the commentators.
Following on from this, it is the placement of the sound bytes and what exactly triggers each action is a huge let down for Konami. “The Keeper’s Failed To Hold It & His Defence Has Had To Help Him Out” is one of the more common sayings, when the actual in game action has seen the stopper make an excellent point blank save. “Both Teams Haven’t Made Any Changes” is another belter, following half time, yet I had made one change due to injury in the first 10 minutes! Having a decent script is one thing, yet using the right pieces of audio data at the right time is equally important!
Another gripe is pointless information! Yes, commentators are renowned for talking rubbish from time to time; about the stadium, the city, the fans or a player’s taste in boots, but at least all these things are the truth! “The Wind Has Gotten Considerably Stronger During Half Time” is a complete waste of time. There is no wind on PES, it doesn’t affect the game, and Jon Champion may as well have said, there is a 26 foot alien standing just outside the stadium eating fish and chips, because that is just as accurate and unfortunately, just as likely to be included in a Konami game as interactive weather!
Of course, this may be deliberate. Having listened to Mark Lawrenson a fair amount on both Radio and TV over the World Cup, there is no denying the terrible one liners, dodgy calls and awful pieces of word play are part of his every day routine. Compare this with Andy & Martin on FIFA & Sky Sports, and you have a decent baseline for what we are talking about. I am genuinely not nit picking here, as the commentary script for Konami has always been terrible, and yet each year is seems to get a tiny bit better without really improving! Whether it is simply a case of bringing in more commentators, writing better scripts for the existing commentators, ensuring the link between the in game action and the audio is more appropriate or simply a combination of all three, the truth is something really needs to be done.
I open the community to pick up their favourite one liners from the current PES, and also reflect back on previous versions of the title, leaving comments and e-mails via the usual channels.
“Don’t Forget”
I am not ignoring or forgetting the iPhone version of PES 2010. My phone has been playing up over the past few weeks and therefore I have been unable to test the game out. I expect it to be up and running in the next couple of days, and intend to post and honest review when available. If you have the game, and I know some of you do, please feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. Alternatively, if you would like to write an honest and fair review of the game, please get in touch via e-mail and I will have a chat to you.
“It’s A Goal”
The World Cup has thrown up a the debate once again of technology within football, or in its current state the lack of it. Incidents such as the Lampard Goal, the Kaka dismissal and Tevez goal against Mexico have all drawn attention to the fact that referees cannot humanly see all the action that goes on during a game, and that a certain amount of doubt and guess work plays a huge part in each and every decision. Some may say that these decisions even themselves out, and that ‘justice’ will be done, but surely with the money in the game at the moment, the in game ‘evening out’ may not result in financial par. Personally, I am split very much down the middle of the debate, and would like to offer both sides too the argument. I genuinely am not sitting on the fence here, but instead am looking objectively and not being able to find a point to hitch my horse to.
In my argument for, I believe that sport is evolving. We look at the majority of the world’ major sports, Tennis, Rugby, Athletics, Cricket and Horse Racing. All of these use technology to iron out contentious decisions. The money that a glaring error may cost a team, or the opportunity it may deny the side should surely not be left to a wrong decision, and there is not better example than the Ireland in Paris last November. As many people rightly pointed out, the Henry goal put France through, and had it been disallowed or simply not happened, Ireland still had to score or win on spot kicks. However, they were denied this by an incident of cheating/instinct/madness, and a goal line camera could have detected this within a matter of seconds. There was no doubt when seeing the incident on replay, even on one showing! It’s not like it is even open to interpretation, did he dive? Was he interfering with play? The incident was a blatant foul and the goal should have been chalked off. Placing two cameras either side of each goal, with a view of the goal line and six yard box, and you have cover for any contentious incidents near the goal. We all love a debate about football, but the game provides plenty of talking points without these moments of madness, and FIFA, UEFA and the international governing bodies for each nation need to come together and make a common sense decision.
On the other side of the coin, football is a game played in parks all over the world. To many it is still seen as a game that can be played by anyone with a ball and some jumpers for goalposts. As footballers become more out of touch with reality, it is important the sport doesn’t become less accessible. We don’t want non-league or amateur clubs shutting down because they can not afford the appropriate technology to keep their club in line the FIFA rules, and furthermore, we don’t want semi pro clubs fitting hand held camera on the goal lines and showing images to amateur refs, demanding they take a look at the footage! Whilst the English, Spanish and Italian Leagues all have good funding, other European and World Leagues are less fortunate, and some countries may also have trouble implanting the system due to finances. Going away to Sweden or Finland in the Europa League, to a ground which is unable to have goal line technology and then have a good goal disallowed will further raise issues, and in turn alienate the smaller leagues in Europe. On top of this, referring is a difficult job at the best of times. Your usually making a decision that will cause disagreement, and then to have the power of your convictions questioned by technology, which again still may not be conclusive will cause even more problems. If you refer an incident to the cameras and you make a decision after inconclusive video footage, the unfortunate team the decision goes against will have grounds for appeal, something players do not need in this day and age!
Please feel free to comment on the continuing issue, and keep topics clean, structured and respectful!
“What The Future Holds”
The PES Play tests will be creeping up on us soon, and in the world of embargos and cloak and dagger, PESGaming will be ensuring you receive the official news first when it is legal to do so. The question I ask now, is after seeing what you guys have done online, what are your impressions towards PES 2011 so far? Ideally, if you could sum the game up so far in a sentence (15 words or less), what would it be? I appreciate this comes from not having played the game, seeing videos and reading hearsay, but it is always interesting to gauge a reaction prior to play testing, and it will help Double D and myself structure our reviews and findings on the game.
That’s your lot for this week. A little bit to chew over there. I apologise for the lack of Do I Not Like That last week. Phil’s column will return again this Thursday. interferingwithplay@hotmail.co.uk is the place to direct your e-mail to, and as always feel free to comment or visit www.soccergaming.com for more football gaming news.
Thanks for Reading
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ABOUT PES 2011
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PES is still the same in terms of overall approach. It will not satisfy every football enthusiast, to my knowledge PES 2011 is just a tweak of PES 2010. What konami has promised for 2010 is coming for PES 2011. Whatever development they make the AI is not for the current generation. We can easily predict the next comp move, i.e if I close down/block a winger, he will do a back pass regardless of the difficulty level or player stats, very very few wingers will attempt a feint to go past defenders.
The next thing is 90% of the goal that AI scores is from the crosses and they are accurate everytime, not a single time AI has missed a perfect curved ball into the box and it never goes outside for a goal-kick.
The PES and the FIFA series lacks in-depth football mechanism, the core-concepts of the football is not considered. There is very less impact of things that are altered, simple things such as marking variations are useless. The man mark and zonal mark both work the same way, no matter if the player has the Marking special card. The man marking is the worst during set-pieces.
Do you think they would have fixed these in PES 2011? Obviously NO,the basics of football in PES is lacking.
About the commentary, why did they remove the different languages? Anyway in PES2010 I just turned commentary off as it was just killin me, that and as you said you get hit with terrible one liners that don’t match the situation. Perhaps Konami should try and get club or fan commentators for the club you are in the master league in future PES games? I don’t know if Most people would rather listen to a commentator that was in favour of their team but I love it. Doesn’t matter who is commentating my clubs matches on TV, I always have the clubs official radio commentator on the PC louder so I can barely hear the TV.
Nice to see one of your articles not constantly mentioning FIFA for a change! I don’t give a **** about FIFA, that’s why I started reading PESgaming! I’ve loved PES for years, and wish you few lads who write the articles would just shut up about FIFA! I don’t care how much it has improved, what it does better than PES, how shiny Tahoe made it, I DONT WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!! This used to be solely a PES fanzine, that’s why I liked it. Now when I read it, it’s FIFA this and FIFA that? Keep it real and please get back to our roots. STAND UP AND BE COUNTED IF YOU AGREE!!!! FIFA TALK SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE MAIN ARTICLES!!!!Nice to see one of your articles not constantly mentioning FIFA for a change! I don’t give a **** about FIFA, that’s why I started reading PESgaming! I’ve loved PES for years, and wish you few lads who write the articles would just shut up about FIFA! I don’t care how much it has improved, what it does better than PES, how shiny Tahoe made it, I DONT WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!! This used to be solely a PES fanzine, that’s why I liked it. Now when I read it, it’s FIFA this and FIFA that? Keep it real and please get back to our roots. STAND UP AND BE COUNTED IF YOU AGREE!!!! FIFA TALK SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE MAIN ARTICLES!!!!
Aza, you need to get over it. Fifa exists and should be recognised as a alternative to PES. I love PES always have been a PES man but i agree that some aspects of FIFA including commmentary have been better in recent editions. To just say this is a PES site and FIFA talk should be banned is very childish and really a waste of breath.
It’s called PESgaming, and personally I don’t care about FIFA otherwise I would look for sites that talk about FIFA all the time. If you go to liverpools website, you don’t see them bigging up Man Utd do you on it do you? It is a PES site, so to call me childish means you are not really a PES fan, so go and start posting on EA’s wall instead of on here. This site has been hijacked by FIFA lovers. It should be treated as the enemy, not embraced. It’s gameplay has always been second best to PES, that’s why we love it.
And as if im not aware that FIFA is an alternative you clown? Why do I keep reminding of this, I just don’t like it compared to PES!!!
I suggest you take a close look at the logo for this site. It calls it ” A Pro Evo Fanzine”. Now all you FIFA admirers, go and admire some FIFA sites. I come on here, and have done for years, to hear and read the latest PES news and views. Please tell me WHAT THE HELL that has got to do with any other game?
I once sucked a man off
thanx aza. no matter wat FIFA does its just not going to surpass Pes. its da gameplay dat matters to us hardcore pes fans. i appreciate wat seabass n his crew are doing. commentary is da only thing fifa has advangtage of. apart from dat wat else not. all fifa fans this ma question to you, does ur game have the let me play one more game effect? naah cuz u get bored within a few months. people complain about pes but still play it for da whole year onlike fifa. pes 2011 kings return.
‘they call this keeper safe hands’.
only 1% better than ‘hi im chris james’.
Well summed up there Dan, but I must say that the police better move along that 26 foot Alien if he’s able to see the game for free outside the stadium. ;)
COMENTARY
To prevent the commentary sounding like **** I think they could try another angle by getting a ‘Jonathan Pearce at channel 5′ type commentary. (like his celebration when Sheringham scored – “http://northstandchat.com/archive/index.php/t-20390.html”)
My favourite bit of commentary which I heard only once in PES was….
[Previous commentator before Lawro]: “It’s a goal”
Jon Champion: “hey, that’s my line!”
VIDEO REPLAY/ GOALINE TECHNOLOGY
I played a tennis league match last night – where wrong decisions could get us relegated – and there is was no technology or umpires yet we managed just about fine. Yes you get the occasional clown who makes deliberately bad calls but it’s the same in 5-a-sides with regards to whether you were outside the D when you shot.
So it works fine at the moment in other sports (and indeed football in it’s current incarnation) that the standard you play at in the sport governs the amount of technology/refs you implement (The fact there was not even an umpire tells you how bad a I am at tennis!)
I suppose if an amateur team decides it wants to spend/waste it’s own money on goal line technology for all their matches and the opposition agrees to use it then there should be no problem with that, it may even happen already! Amateur football has even more breaks in it than pro football as it is because you need to break up the 22 player, player and ref,player and fan or ref and fan physical fights after each contentious decisions anyway. :)
I’ve not heard of appeals being allowed in other sports after wards when the ref has made a wrong decision based on replay technology, has anyone?
pes2011 9
Pes ps2 did have the superior gameplay over fifa,but has been found wanting since,and gameplay equates to the volume of control the user has of the decision making process within the walls of the virtual playground the programmer creates,it not quantithiable to the feeling the user gets in his brain or the release of endorfins which is a by product of having the perfect balance of risk and reward,or the challenge of taming the unpredictable,something thats pes has never lost.
Whether fifa provides the said one more game factor is subjective and in the mind of the user and varys depending on what any said individual draws from the experience.
PES 2011: I am convinced that it will be the first game to offer a slightly realistic take on the ”one-versus-one” element of the real thing.
Hopefully, this will come hand-in-hand with new stats for defenders and perhaps also for the attackers as well: thus finally improving on the outdated player individuality. Plus the improved animations, graphics, etc, etc.
I do think PES 2010 is the best PES to date, so for me it’s obvious that PES 2011 will be an improvement and thus better than PES10 and any other PES before it.
Still, like all PES games and FIFA games: it will revolve around the direction in which you run with the ball or the direction in which you run after the ball carrier, which unfortunately, has nothing to do with actually playing football and actually neglects the essence of football.
As for the commentaries,
I would think everyone knows just how important it is. For my part, I cannot believe how dead the commentary feels: you can hold on to the ball forever, and if you do not score a goal, the commentators will not have anything to say about it. And when they do say something, it never feels real or reflective of the importance of the goal. It just takes a lot of realism and excitement out of the game.
As for the quality of PES comments that we -the community- give year after year,
I think we should take this more seriously, we have barely seen any improvements since PES5, the game is basically the same thing at it’s core, and it’s year 2010!!
Every year, we get a lot of contributors who start talking about PES as if they where the producers of PES: Konami do not have the money to implement the changes you want, Konami is out of ideas (despite the fact that they have approximately 200 minds working on PES), etc, etc.
This is not contributing to anything really, as far as I’m concerned, not one of us works for Konami, and therefore, none of us know the real situation behind the scenes. Talking about Konami is, as a matter of fact, a complete waste of time which will contribute to nothing useful nor positive nor constructive, nor reflective of the opinion of the fan-base.
We should focus, not on what we want to see or what would please us enough to buy the game, but on providing Konami with the type of feedback that really reflects our opinion.
A lot of people are happy with PES10, I actually think it’s the best PES to date; however, fact is that it is not nearly enough of an improvement after all these years… and Konami themselves know this and have admitted this on more than one occasion throughout this year.
So I think we should think about it more objectively, and take a look at why PES has barely improved in the last 5 years; and despite whatever may be happening inside PES Productions, we should give better feedback because our opinions and our reasoning should not be limited by something that does not concerns us.
So in this respect, yes it is a fact that it is too late for any gameplay suggestions to make it into PES 2011; but at the same time, whatever suggestions we give at the end of the year, will be used for PES 2012.
Year after year we continue giving the same half-baked suggestions, using the fact that Konami doesn’t listens as an excuse for the poor quality feedback. We should simply give the best feedback we can give, and let Konami take care of the rest. It is something we have never tried.
i think we covered goal-line technology and video replay in the last segment.
why, oh why, would you play “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”? perhaps this explains things…. :P
as for the in-game commentary, i turn it off. when jon champion and peter brackley left, we had no real alternatives. i couldn’t tell you who the color commentary has been. it’s not a real big selling point for me. there’s other things pes needs to concentrate on.
i put the cam on vertical (or i tried to before 2010), i turn off the commentary. i’m a former player, i want to be somewhat immersed in the match. fix my cam, give me proper refs, proper crowds, proper chants, proper online, and i’m stylin! don’t give me that, and i’ll finally cave in and convert to fifa.
OOPS! i meant(must check my errors)
Pes ps2 did have the superior gameplay over fifa,but has been found wanting since,and gameplay equates to the volume of control the user has of the decision making process within the walls of the virtual playground the programmer creates,its not quantifiable to the feeling the user gets in his brain or the release of endorfins which is a by- product of having the perfect balance of risk and reward,or the challenge of taming the unpredictable,something that pes has never lost.
Whether fifa provides the said one more game factor is subjective and in the mind of the user and varys depending on what any said individual draws from the experience.
Pes2011-Im happy as a pig in sh*t,freedom of movement and control(should separate the men from the boys),full directional and placement control of passing and shooting,organic animation,a realistic defensive system,overhauled free kick and set piece system,dynamic dribbling ect ect ect…..
Commentary-Always turn it off(you dont have it when your watching in a real stadium)
AI-If konami can get a precious equililibrium in the AI and a design and phychology of the game which means that things dont happen the in same way,and crucially,we dont behave in the same way in the same situation twice,producing a game that has broken free from its binery roots and origins coming gloriously,to life,then i will be over the moon(ISS n64 had it).
Would love dynamic weather,degrading pitches,snow,muddy kits and shorts,but theres always pes2012(all good things come to those who wait).
ha ha vince,exactly what i was thinking,bet he puts on a flowery frock and settles down to a night of serious buffy slaying,then goes on pesfan and relays their info as his own on here.
thats right i said it
““Both Teams Haven’t Made Any Changes” is another belter, following half time, yet I had made one change due to injury in the first 10 minutes!”
The commentator is referring to changes during the half-time break.
in more than one way it was the right foot, Know what i mean??? What a load of scabby bollox.
“HEADER TWO!!!”
An example, if needed, that PES Productions have been cutting corners for the past three years.
i hope van bommel gets injured in training before the final cos he doesn’t deserve to play in it. dirty thug
The commentator yelling out loud: “He’s going to blow any minute now!” and it is only half time! That one annoys me.
Freak 08, 1st Post
Spot on comments, fully agree…
Your comments are realistic, informative, objective, and in my opinion, reflective of the reality of the situation.
———————————————–
Dopecoil: ”you know absolutely nothing about game development.If you really knew how much work went into making pes and fifa you wouldnt be making ignorant short sighted statements like this.Sums you up really,a boy of long statements,based on no real knowledge of the industry.”
———————————————–
The comment that I quoted, it was directed at me, it was written by Dopecoil: now according to Dopecoil, if my profession is not that of a game developer or has nothing to do with game development, I am not qualified to criticize PES.
I mean, since when did you needed to be a film director in order to criticize and understand and enjoy a film?
Some people will want you to believe that PES10 and FIFA10 are marvels of a game, smart and ”almost perfect” games… that will not improve much further, because according to Dopecoil and other assh*les, the PS3 is not capable of something twice as good.
It’s almost like Dopecoil promotes both PES and FIFA, like a salesman selling a product. I tell you one thing, I bought PES 2010 because Dopecoil said it was an amazing game, unlike anything he had played in his many years of experience: because I valued his opinion, I bought the BS… but the truth came out in the end.
So yeah, people like Dopecoil will want you to believe that he is a game developer and that you are not qualified to criticize or even talk about a video game, because according to him, if you are not a game developer you do not have any credibility.
I wonder, what must Dopecoil think about 99.9% of the fan-base that supports PES?
People like myself on the other hand, I have no interest in discrediting anyone’s opinion due to the lack of game development experience, I do not think you need to be a game developer in order to criticize dumb video games like PES and FIFA, I simply look at the facts: what has changed since PES5?
I think playing PES5 and then playing PES10 or FIFA10 says it all really: it’s the same game at its core, unchanged at its core, untouched at its core.
And everything I say, I can prove it with video footage, which I will use later on this year: it’s nothing complicated, just something that you cannot explain very well nor has as much credibility, with words alone.
To Suggest that a PS3 Console cannot handle something two times better than PES10 and FIFA10: is a disrespectful and arrogant lie.
I feel disrespected whenever Dopecoil suggests that FIFA10 is ”near perfection”, I feel insulted whenever Dopecoil tells me that ”you know absolutely nothing about game development”, it insults my intelligence… the fact that some assh*le believes that he can lie to my face, and believes that by the repetitive use of lying that I will actually buy the BS once again, having already experienced how full of sh*t he is.
I will have to accept that people like Dopecoil are just not worth my time. It’s better to let him talk about his deluded opinion, let him believe that his opinion is indeed a fact; it’s better than wasting your time arguing with someone like him.
People will continue saying irrelevant things like: ”all I want is good referees and good GK, that alone would make a world of difference” or ”you know absolutely nothing about game development”
I think our feedback would be a lot more realistic and objective, if we had at least 10 or 20 other regulars like you: talking about the product in question, with a realistic and objective and mature intent.
Not wasting a single word on off-topic and unnecessary insults which only contribute to everything that is irrelevant and anti-constructive, not wasting a single word talking about game development and Konami, which, as a matter of fact, since the vast majority of the fan-base who supports PES are not game developers nor do they do any work related with game development: it is in fact a waste of time, for a consumer to express his opinion as if he was a game developer, it defeats the purpose of websites like PESGaming.
Not only is Dopecoil openly disrespecting EVERYONE in PESGaming and in WENB and in PESFan, but how exactly should I or anyone else respond to him?
Like I said, Freak 08 is one of the few regulars who contributes with positive and realistic and objective and consistent and constructive: words… only focusing on the product in question.
I think our feedback would be a lot more realistic and objective, if we had at least 10 or 20 other regulars like Freak08: perhaps, if we give feedback that actually reflects the reality of the situation, we could expect an honest response from Konami.
Your post and fact that you posted three times in a rant Aza, are what appear childish. Your comparison about Liverpool website posting about Man utd is fine but nobody here is saying buy Fifa or don’t buy pes. People are making comparisons like Fifa’s commentary does this and pes commentary does that…. In the football gaming world there are two games thus PES and FIFA will always be drawn into comparisons. This is the only way PES will continue to improve. By comparing it to its competition and making sure it is the best product on the market. To just rule out FIFA as **** is narrow minded when the PES community can look at it say its **** but take something good out of it.
I love PES and despite 2010 not being the game we all want it to be i still play it regularly. The commentary i hate the most is when your 0-1 down at half time and the commentator says “no subs yet the manager may have lost his marbles”
Do people on here that leave multiple comments actually play footy games often, you can’t do as you wouldnt have the time to submit all these mostly nonsense texts.
Go and play some footy games, score some goals and then make accurate comments on if PES is better than Fifa.
If you play the two latest editions of these games (PES 10 or Fifa World Cup)you will find Fifa is better, also commentry better on Fifa always has been.
Thats the truth, lets wait and see if the latest instalments this Autumn changes this but until then im playing Fifa as l want the best footy gaming experience available and have no shares in Konami to warrant me to stay loyal.
If they make the PES 11 revamp great l will buy the game.
If we are trying to make Konami listen to this site and make changes that improve the gameplay then we need to talk about Fifa or any other footy games that we like certain aspects of.
Remember Fifa copied Konamis gameplay mechanics/button config etc to make a good game so swings and roundabouts.
As the ball dribbles wide of the goal: “And that one goes over the crossbar!!” (iss pro evolution soccer)
commentators:
i care not one jot for the likes of john champion and jim beglin, very poor and dosile tones emmanate from the holes in their heads ( much like certian tossers on here)
there was a commentator on bbc world cup coverage. i think his name was steve wright if i am not mistaken. was very impressed with his microphone skills and he would be perfect for pes. not my opinion but a FACT!
yes, fifa copied pes and good luck to them. they have a pretty decent game and i would not mind one bit if pes copied fifa on certain aspects too,
penaltys,
atmosphere,
animations,
commentry,
lighting,
goalkeepers,
freekick editor,
if pes was willing to implement any if not all of these then it would be an improvement on the game!
with regards to commentary, they shud decide what to say and when, instead of sum speccy japanese nerd shovin a poorly translatd script in their face and told “heres your cash, now say this”. Its obvious they dnt knw wats goin on by the banners around the stadiums wen u start a game, with “celery” and “who ate all the pies” written on them. The best quote has to be lawrence_”dont think theres a delivery missin there, do ya?” makes me cringe. Its pot luck wat we get this yr in terms of the game as a whole, sum will love it, sum wnt. If your sum1 who dnt, take it bck and get ur cash or get something else. Its the only thing they will listen to. And i agree, there is no excuse for nt havn degrading pitches, weather effects etc, after all its 23 sprites on a 2d background, with a relativly low polygon count and nowhere near as demanding as a COD game.
FIFA Creation Centre!
http://fifasoccerblog.com/blog/fifa-dated-new-feature-announced/
You can make your own team and even STADIUM!
Here you go KONAMI! you don’t listen to FANS, FIFA will take advantage and implement features that PES fans wanted for years!
I’m sort of with Gary Lineker with technology, it can only be used as a challenge like in tennis, but he wants it to be 3 challenges in a game (like tennis). Personally, I think this is ridiculous. Just imagine the play stopping 6 times in a match to challenge for an offside decision, and yet they all turn out to be wrong. The flow of the game will no doubt be disrupted.
IMO, the way to get around this is for each team to have 3 challenges in each competition, not in a single match. I was thinking about 5 in the league but 3 sounds a bit more competitive, and it’s not like every team is part of controversy week-in week-out.
@29
i just had a thought, how many of you reckon there a FIFA gamers/producers ‘spying’ this website and stealing our ideas to makes a PES a better game? :O
people request for details to be put into pes 2011 and ea offer them to us in fifa 11 lol.
net editor, stadium editor, boot editer etc etc etc.
what will konami say????? we dont have time to implement these things into pes!
sad seebass.
heres hoping that pes gameplay is awsome or else im off to the dark side this year!
31 scholsey
They do. Its because their own fans are useless, because they’re all 12.
Thats the only reason i don’t like sharing my ideas on this site. What Fifa fan actually wanted a net editor!? (lol) they only wanted improvments for Manager mode.
32 crome
I’m not gonna lie and and say i wouldnt want them for Pes, but on this ocassion i’d except that excuse. This wasn’t the year for drastic edit mode changes especially after that turd tart Pes 2010, last year it should have gone in.
Besides i bet that stadium editor is nothing like everyone pictures it, you know how EA are.
I haven’t checked this site for almost or about a year and it’s the same old trite topics, PES2010 is good BUT FIFA10 is near perfection and other stupid redundant data.
It’s called football gaming adultery. Choose whatever fits you please. Why must you lower your level of intelligence to the same level as an Apple Fan Boy?
I was really hoping to go to this site, find out what PES2011 has in store for us, (although I don’t expect the world, so to speak) and what do I get? I get non-topical comments, pointless and baseless.
Anyway, what’s up people?
Anything new PES2011 is promising us that most prolly won’t be come to fruition?
HEY I GOT TONS OF IDEAS FOR FUTURE PES GAMES WHERE CAN I GET IN TOUCH WIT THE PRODUCCERS AND EDITORS? THANK U
OH AND IF U KNOW HOW I CAN GET A PATCH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR PS3 AMERICAN VERSION PLEASE LET ME KNOW ..
i think the new game will come good ( im praying anyway)
with the extra development staff hired and working on the game it could be very good indeed
it has to be or more fans will move to fifa simple as that
the new passing crossing gauge will be good also but
1. need good online play
2. need good online system no barca and real every game
Check this out…
http://www.pesfan.com/news/9089209/GMGaming%27s-Lionel-Messi-Trick-Combo/
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i hope pes2011 plays great n fifa 11 also plays great. Dat way i have two quality footie games to play throughout da year. it does come betta that. but every one in this forum knows dat pes plays betta regardless of its flaws. seriously we r still requesting for updates, patches, stadiums if da game wasn’t good like people are crying about y all this patchs then. seriously fifa can’t catch up with Pro imo
An other one….
http://www.youtube.com/user/prorevoTV?feature=chclk#p/a/u/0/73Yp9QY6zGU
I didn’t like Jon’s words about the online mode!!!He said that they tried as much as possible.
“Tell you what Jon!”
lol @ 42
As a football fan we are entitled to have preferances, and with only 2 major titles specialising in football, comparissons are inevitable as are people playing both games (like racing games- do people only ever play one racing title ?), perhaps more so than ever since FIFA caught up.
Been playing games a long time now, ISS on n64 always felt way ahead of any its contemporaries….strange that back then, and in the early ps1 and ps2 days, and back in the even earlier days of Spectrums/Commodores there were a number of differant football titles.
Now theres only 2 brands …. not including the recent PURE or FIFA street, neither of which Im opposed to BUT strictly only 2 titles of ‘proper’ footy: PES and FIFA.
Back to the subject….As someone who appreciated FIFA09 and was disappointed with PES09, I was happier with PES10, and was unsure how much better fifa10 was so didnt make the investment…BUT….. even on FIFA07 PSP, the commentary was better, and I would go so far as to say FIFA 05 on PS2,
compared to PES now I believe.
I know it splits decision how important commentary is, I personally dont understand why it has to be so limited, or why it has, and I dont believe its a console generation thing.
Im with the poster who believes that there is a lot lot more to come from the console
Does anyone remember when the first PES came out on the current new generation ? I was disapointed, like many happy to go back to pes2008/2005, Konami and Seabass seemed to be telling us that it would be 2010, 2 games on from the first where it would really be happening. I think they havent quite improved as much as possible, but yet the beautiful game still keeps me coming back.
My other gripe is which has probably been discussed here before is what happened to the real legends in the game, where are they this year,…..Paul Mersons stats for England …. whats that about ?
My first posting here
to pes 2011 eine opos to kamos akrivos to eidio
DMania,
Some good words, I am one of the consumers who knows that PES10 and FIFA10 are well below the level of a PS3 Console.
And I think it is very easy to prove why, I mean, ignoring graphics and animations: what else has improved?
This shows us that games like PES10 and FIFA10 are very commercial and superficial games, aimed at non-hardcore fans; games that do not use the real power of a current-gen console, games which revolve around the same values as the PS1 and PS2 games: the direction in which you run with the ball, the direction in which you run after the ball carrier, and the speed at which you run with or without the ball.
It has nothing to do with playing football, it has always been about the direction in which you run when you have the ball at your feet or the direction in which you run when you don’t have the ball at your feet. What can you do when you have the ball at your feet? and what can you do when you do not have the ball at your feet?
Besides RUNNING, and running, and running; I cannot think of anything else, it’s all about running, passing, and shooting the ball. In other words, you never do any dribbling nor any man-marking, which completely defeats the purpose of the player individuality.
In my opinion, PES10 and FIFA10 are more or less 2D games, for many different reasons.
On one hand, we have the more physical side of the game, where it is impossible to dribble with the ball and it is impossible to man-mark the opponent.
On the other hand, we have the tactical side of the game, where you can only run vertically, in perfect straight lines, at all times: the user cannot really make useful use of the WIDTH of the pitch. And thus, the beautiful game is diminished into a ping-pong game, where you can only use the length of the pitch.
You can only use the length of the pitch but you can never make good use of the width of the pitch; and this produces a pin-pong game, always back and forwards, and back and forwards, where any average team can play possession football effectively, where the intricacies and the ”fun” part of football is neglected.
And from a more hands-on point of view, the physical part of the game is also neglected, because of the fact that it is impossible to do any dribbling or any man-marking; which means that the physical aspect of the game, where the ball carrier engages in a physical ”one-versus-one” battle against the defender, is non-existent and merely a product of your imagination.
It is year 2010, and still, I cannot run with the ball and at the same time dictate the behavior of one of my players; like for example, after passing the ball, instead of the monotonous R2 vertical run, how can I instruct the player who just passed the ball to run horizontally?
When the user does not has the ball, he will depend 99.9% on the COM, because the only thing that the user can control in terms of movement without the ball, is the R2 forwards run: always vertical, always forwards, in a very perfect straight line… thus never making any use of the width of the pitch.
When we talk about great midfield players, like for example, Xavi Hernandez: how does he dictates the tempo of a game? How can Xavi Hernandez do what so many players do not know how to do?
I tell you one thing, it is impossible to play football when all the players on the pitch move identically: always forwards, linear at all times, always moving in perfect straight lines…
The only player whom is capable of breaking the monotonous nature of the video game, is the user-controlled player who has the ball at his feet: thus, what is the use of Xavi Hernandez when the only thing he can do without the ball is run forwards?
And what is the use of a slow player like Xavi Hernandez, when the only thing you can do with the ball, is control the direction in which you RUN with the ball? Dribbling on the spot, without moving from the space, without running, effectively dribbling with the ball without the necessity of running: is impossible.
Therefore, what is the use of Xavi Hernendez when Leo Messi can do a better job? What is the use of Carles Puyol when Leo Messi is better in every possible respect?
Now in PES10 or FIFA10: do you ever see players moving horizontally when they do not have the ball? or diagonally when they do not have the ball?
Movement without the ball actually determines the type of passing that you can do. So how can I pass the ball? how many different type of passes can I give? what level of control do I have over the game? what type of user-input does it require to function properly? when all the players move identically when they do not have the ball, always moving vertically when they do not have the ball…
The intricacies and the ”fun” part of football is neglected. The skill required for the game to function properly does not revolves around a clever concept which revolves around the thinking power of the user; instead, the skill of the user is limited to one button, and to how good the user is at maneuvering with the different buttons or controls; thinking is never needed nor does it affect the game in any way.
It’s the same old ping-pong game, with some new details attached to it, but the same old turd at its core.
This is why, in my opinion, even though PES10 looks like a 3D video game, I think it’s closer to a 2D game: you can see the potential, yet it is year 2010 and I still see the same old liner and one-dimensional game.
Perhaps it’s because of lack of money, perhaps Konami does not has the economical resources to produce a game that actually uses the real power of a current-gen console. The fact remains that the Football Genre is stuck in the past, and it has nothing to do with a lack of hardware or technology.
Anonymous,Thats what i want.I want Pes to go Back to basics , but not have basic gameplay .There should be advancements in how the game plays on the field.This day and age the a.i should be so complex, no two games should ever play the samem,something that i find with pes2010 and fifa10.We should be spoiled with features this year , to make up for past shortcomings and lazyness it appears!.
frankyboy,
In my opinion, the best possible answer to the current problem, would be to make THINKING a driving force in how the game plays.
The current way of doing things does not requires any thinking, instead, we have FIFA10 which requires complicated and sensitive button maneuvers in order to produce the most basic of reactions or animations.
Part of the problem, is the fact that far too many things are attached to the left analogue stick. For example, the left analogue stick works identically when holding the R1 sprint button and when not holding the R1 sprint button: always focused on the direction in which the player RUNS with or without the ball.
This means that the left analogue stick has ONLY one purpose: the direction in which the ball carrier runs with the ball or the direction in which the defender runs after the ball carrier…
We have no controls for the direction in which the ball carrier DRIBBLES with the ball or the direction in which the defender man-marks the ball carrier.
How many different things can you do when the player is not moving but has the ball at his feet?
By simply giving a very slight touch to the left analogue stick: the player will automatically start moving with the ball… which means that DRIBBLING when stationary and when in movement, is in fact impossible.
All the dribbling moves required in real-life football could easily be attached to the left analogue stick without the necessity of any right analogue stick gimmicks; however, not only would the controls need a revamp, but more importantly, the core gameplay mechanics would need fundamental changes and improvements.
The current problem is that we only have a total of 10 fingers, the control has a total of 10 buttons, and we are limiting everything to the number of buttons rather than to the number of different scenarios that take place in a football match.
Should a player move identically when deep in the midfield and when near the edge of the penalty area? Currently, the player moves identically in all positions and all possible situations… In order to produce different type of animations you must hold the R2 button + the left analogue stick.
The problem is that the R2 button is just ONE button, ONE button for countless of different situations and scenarios: one button will logically produce a one-dimensional experience, which will probably revolve around monotonous and yet overly complicated control gimmicks, therefore, the thinking power or ”footballing brain” of the user will be irrelevant because the game has nothing to do with playing football.
It is impossible to play football when the ball does not affects the players of the pitch, which is the case with both PES and FIFA.
If the position of the ball dictated different automatic reactions from the players: we would have countless of different types of animations in all areas of the game.
More responsive and intuitive animations because of the fact that they would be automatically triggered by the position of the ball, by the distance between the ball and the defender; thus, not requiring the unnecessary use of any button. It would not require the use of any button, instead, it will just produce different type of left analogue stick animations.
For example, in real-life if you watch it closely, whenever a defender gets within a distance of approximately 30 feet between himself and the position of the ball: you can notice it in his body language, that when a defender gets within such a distance, the defender is COMPROMISED in the play… which means that he is now marking the space in accordance to how the ball carrier moves.
In other words, a COMPROMISED defender will not move nor react in accordance to something that he cannot see, which is precisely why, the movement of the ball is so important in real-life football.
The problem with PES and FIFA, is that it neglects the essence of football: the essence of football, being the fact that the position of the ball produces different type of reaction from different type of players.
In PES and FIFA, all the players move identically when they do not have the ball, the players never run horizontally nor diagonally when they do not have the ball, which means that they never make any use of the width of the pitch when they do not have the ball.
This is a very big flaw because, movement without the ball determines the type of passing that can be possible, that can be put into practice successfully and consistently. If players can only move vertically when they do not have the ball, this means that realistic build-up play is both unnecessary and impossible.
And above all, of course, is the ROOT of the problem, which is the fact that the gameplay concept does not revolves around the thinking power or ”footballing brain” of the user; instead, the gameplay concept revolves around how good the user is at maneuvering with the left analogue stick and other buttons or controls.
The problem is that the left analogue stick is just one button, the R2 button is just one button; if these buttons work identically regardless of the position of the ball and regardless of the player, we can only play ONE ”brand” of football. This means that the game is broken from the ground up, revolving around outdated mechanics.
But even if the R2 button worked differently in different situations, the ROOT of the problem still is that the user can easily neglect the essence of football by simply releasing or holding the R2 button.
The ROOT of the problem is the fact that the players on the pitch can always react and move in accordance to what the user can see from the wide view perspective; in other words, the position of the ball is irrelevant, playing football is irrelevant and in fact impossible…
Because the user can clearly see your intentions from the wide view perspective and can always react in accordance to what he sees from the wide view perspective, therefore the players on the pitch are not affected by the position of the ball.
For this same reason, it is both impossible and pointless to dribble with the ball or to man-mark the ball carrier.
The game revolves around the direction in which you run with the ball or the direction in which you run after the ball carrier, and let’s be honest, the lack of progress is starting to show more and more with each passing year.
Once the players on the pitch start reacting AUTOMATICALLY to the position of the ball, once this happens, simple controls will take care of many different type of animations and reactions; making the game simple and yet clever, because the footballing brain of the user will be a driving force required for the game to function properly.
Keep in mind that when I say ”react automatically” I do not mean that the players will actually move on their own, what I mean is that the left analogue stick will automatically focus on different things.
For example, if the distance between the ball carrier and the defender is of approximately 30 feet: the left analogue stick, when not holding the sprint button, will not focus on the direction in which the defender runs, instead, the left analogue stick would focus on intercepting passes. In other words, the left analogue stick will produce the type of animations that can help you intercept passes, stretching either the left leg or the right leg in order to intercept a pass, etc, etc.
On the other hand, if the distance between the defender and the ball carrier is of approximately 5 feet: the left analogue stick would produce a different type of animation, more in tune with the physical nature of this particular situation.
Thus, to reiterate the point once more: once the players on the pitch start reacting AUTOMATICALLY to the position of the ball, once this happens, simple controls will take care of many different type of animations and reactions.
There would be a very defined difference between running with the ball and dribbling with the ball, between marking the space and marking the man. Which would come hand-in-hand with massive improvements in terms of player individuality and overall gameplay.