I have got back from my Holiday to receive the responses from my interview with Jon Murphy. I will discuss the topics raised in more depth during this week’s Interfering With Play, however, below is the interview in full.
Question from community member MagicaRoma – PES has always been developed in the Asian market, which is obviously a very different culture to the Western markets, in particular Europe. In your opinion do you feel PES is limited by the way Konami operate centred in this location, and do you feel that a European developer would do things differently? (in particular relating to the game’s development stages)
I think you can look at it both ways. Obviously for years we had a big advantage in terms of gameplay, which has only recently taken a knock. That’s down the skills of a first rate team of Japanese developers. On the other hand it’s taken them longer to get to grips with online play because fiber optics are common and they tend to use it in different ways. One way we were suffering was listening to feedback from fans and I hope that situation has got much better. You can certainly seen the results in the product this year.
Question from Emmanuel Ekem – Is PES 2011 going to see the return of snow on the PS3 and X Box 360 versions, along with accompanying animations (visible breathe, patches on pitch etc.) Further, will the weather effect the way the game actually plays (players slipping, ball moving in the wind etc)
Sorry, but no. At the start of the dev process we had to pick vital areas to improve and put as much effort as possible into those. Gameplay and animation were essential. Master League Online, Stadium Edit and Tactics all out ranked weather. The other issue is that we wanted to get gameplay spot on before altering it with dynamic weather. It’s something we’ll consider again next year.
Question from Kevin Scott – Is PES2011 really new code with brand new animations and passing system or is it an update to the current game engine with new animations and the R2 + “x” passing mapped to the straight “x” button (PS3)?.
PES2011 is based on the last version, we aren’t hiding that. However, the animation system really has been ripped out and almost entirely replaced. Actually 100% manual passing is still in the game, but mapped onto L2 at the moment I believe. I hope when people get a chance to test the demo you’ll experience all the big changes we’ve made but also feel it’s PES at the core. That’s no bad thing.
Question from Kubilay Canalty – Will Konami create a system to encourage players to choose a variety of teams online? I have asked the PESGaming community if they would like such a feature, and more than 91% of them have replied with “yes”. (Poll Results available on request)
We certainly need to do more in this direction. It’s an online and offline issue. In football these days there are real super powers of the modern game which have a clear advantage in almost every game they play. How we reflect those qualities without spoiling the balance of the game is becoming more and more important. The same goes for super star players. Send the feedback and I’d be very happy to pass it onto Seabass and co.
Question adapted from Stormrider – Did Konami change player development in the master league to be more realistic this year and if not is this something Konami would be willing to have a look at in the future?
As I said before we had to pick key areas to work on. With Master League we went for the online element. We also made improvements to Become A Legend, as those were needed. We made more improvements with PES2010 with offline ML and we’ll certainly look at improving the mode in the future. At this stage it’s too early to say exactly what.
Question asked by over 50 people on both PES Gaming and Soccer Gaming. Goal nets have always been a talking point amongst our community members. Many gamers feel that they style of the goal nets on PES are both unrealistic and do not offer enough differentiation between stadiums. With the addition of the stadium editor, why have the goal nets been overlooked once again? Why do we not have the option to edit the goal nets (both in colour and style) along with other parts of the stadium, and why do the goals on PES not reflect the goals used at the real life grounds (Old Trafford, Anfield etc.) Images Attached To Highlight Different Styles
I don’t think the team were really aware of how seriously some people took this issue until it was too late to have an effect on PES2011. Having said that we also honestly feel that it’s more important to fix areas such as gameplay and animation first.
Konami is seemingly famous for removing popular features from one game to the next. This includes the ability to mix and match shirts and shorts on the strip selection screen, random select mode from PES 6 and even the PES Shop (Returning this year!) Could you give us some insight into the reason why popular aspects from previous games are removed on an annual basis?
Because they haven’t had feedback on if such items were well received. I’m trying to put an end to that.
Goalkeepers get a lot of stick on PES due to being accident prone. How are Konami looking to address this? Many fans would like to see them treated as individual entities with their own set of stats, is this something Konami have or will look at for the future?
From what I’ve seen goal keepers have been fixed. Certain errors crept into the game, such as the way they were beaten so easily at the near post, general positioning, leaving their goal line etc. These have now been fixed. They’ll still make errors according to their stats, because they do in real life. They already have some key stats, but I can’t say if we’ll be extending these next year.
On a similar note, the refereeing has come in for a great deal of criticism on PES 2010, especially when it comes to penalty kicks. Has this been addressed in the 2011 version of the game, as would offering a database of referees all with different characteristics be an option for future series?
This is another area I’ve discussed with the team and passed on feedback from forums. Last year you felt that cheating wasn’t punished. We’ve improved the ref AI this year, but I do think we’d also benefit from a selection of refs.
Online has been done to death on many message boards and forums. Along with the current Beta taking place, what other (if any) procedures are in place to make PES 2011 the strongest offering online?
In addition to the current Beta which is specifically for the ML we ran online tests earlier in the summer. Improvements have actually been made since the ML Beta. The games I’ve tested online seem much better when you suffer from a squeeze in bandwidth. Play slows down, but the response times don’t, which means the game remains playable. I haven’t seen any warping at all. It goes without saying that the big test will be on release.
Konami have shown a commitment to downloadable content in the past two instalments of PES. Will this continue into the future and will we begin to receive more frequent updates?
DLC remains and it’s still free. It’ll be similar to last year in terms of frequency.
Just a couple of quick fire personal questions to end up.
Your favourite ever player? Zola
Your favourite team on PES? Classic Holland
Your favourite video game away from football? On the current gen, Oblivion
Your favourite instalment of PES? The first one I worked on, ISS Pro 98
Your one dream feature in a football game? To get everything right.
Funniest question ever about PES? I still get people asking why we don’t have correct player names.
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Do I care about net editors? no
Does everyone care about net editors? no
Is there a fair number of people who do care about net editors? yes
So Konami should be looking to implement an editor or even a choice of more realistic nets at some point.
Argument over, can we move on please?
Pumpkin heads. For all we know, this could be a genius move by Konami. They may have found out that they would entice a whole new fan base to PES, just by quickly adding pumpkin heads. This could lead to more sales, more money and more funds for future PES development. I wont use it, I think its stupid, but does that mean it is stupid?
My personal non game play addition would be to enable you to move clubs in the master league, or/and have a player manager mode in BAL.
@ arnooki
yeah i see where your coming from it makes sense to edit nets in a stadium editor, when they announced it i just assumed it would be in.. cant believe konami didnt see it XD tbh now that ive slept on it.. the editor should have been in the game when konami clearly wernt thinking about gameplay, a la PES 08, 09 and even 10 to a certain point.
Konami seriously hurt there reputation so they should so they should ensure that they keep their fans by at least tryin to meet the demands even if it means announcing nets will be in a DLC but there will not no editor, yet.
Its their fault Fifa got the title ‘best sports game of all time’(clearly not) look at what it was compared to. FIfa is saturated now anyway only they will go forward is by listening to the competitions fans and copying.
Im still sticking to my guns though and i still believe there are more features, yet to be put in, that are better and more influential to the game than net editors.
Amazing how many ppl on here have formed such informed opinions about PES 2011 without having played the game themselves. I mean, you’re all welcome to your opinion, but give the game a chance. You might have fun with it you know, and at the end of the day if you are asking for something that is beyond the moon, something more than a fun and addictive game which requires some skill, recreates the atmosphere of the game and allows you to compete with others, well, what do you expect for the price of a video game? It’s like some people have mental/emotional disorders centered around PES… Seriously.
no net editor and no mixing of kits because he never got enough feedback requesting these 2 things to be implemented; oh yes murphy but we did request pumpkin heads and exploding barrels didnt we and yet we get no Carlos Valderamma!!!!!!
LMAO
You are spot on about that, can’t believe it slipped my mind not to say something similar… But look on the bright side, at least Jon Murphy heard about your request.
My simple request was ignored, apparently, snow on the pitch is more important than the footballers who created this thing we call individuality.
@ anyone,
I find it very funny that people are talking about getting the game right…
PES 2011 has done nothing new, ISS in the N64 did it more than 10 years ago, I hate it when companies re-release something after 10 years of not doing it, and then re-brand it as something ”new” it really gets on my titties that players like Carlos Valderamma are not in game.
That’s f*cking BS. It’s always something like: ”this is the beginning of a new era” but it is as we have never seen before total freedom passing etc.— yet — I bet that in 5 years time, PES 2016 will be essentially identical to PES 2011.
It’s f*cking history, look at it, what FIFA11 and PES11 are doing is nothing new, and yet Konami and EA Sports talk about it as if it was something cutting edge and innovative but no Carlos Valderamma…
LMAO
This is why a PS4 console would be a waste of money, companies are after the money, appealing to as many consumers as possible… Unfortunately, this results in outdated and uninspiring video games largely aimed at casual fans but still manage to provide hours of fun which essentially what its aims are so my point is not valid.
So why waste $500 in a PS4 when the video games developed for the PS4 are just PS2 games with better graphics and animations but the same old substance? Because gaming is fun and like it or lump it
By the way, I know that the PS4 has not been released yet… I’m just making a point of the PS3, which in my opinion, if it was not for the Blu-ray Disc player; or better said, in terms of gaming the PS3 has been a waste of hard earned money.
I only play a handful of video games, PES was the key interest when I bought the PS3 console… turns out that money determines how good a video game can be, the console has little to do with it.
Valderamma
Starlight, i know what you mean, As i said earlier, i’m sure pes 2011 will play a great game and have a host of great features, but there will be some disappointed punters because features they asked for have not been included, the graphical features like goal/net styles, kits, classic players, refs, boots, balls etc, that is why DLC is more important than ever this year, if EA can impliment a net editor into fifa 11 within 2 weeks then this should be done by konami and given us via DLC, that would show people that Konami really do want to give the gamers what they want, other features that have been requested by many pes gamers that have been loyal to the series for years should be offered also, i want to be happy and i want everybody else to be happy too.
Peace brothers.
Hi,
I think we miss a great thing here fellows. Pumpkin heads will be awesome!
I hope it will be included with BAL.
(or not)
But I won’t cry about nets, if I want a sexy net I tell my GF to wear one. And since I live in Sweden I hate snow, so you can show that snow effect up the ***.
But, I love you all..
XoXo
Mr Pumpkin
Hahahaha
@ 105 Amateur
Hmmm, you rubbished my constructive comments by using as evidence the 1 potential ideal scenario in your head and claimed it to be the gospel we should apply all logic 2, when I pick you up on that and asked you for more realistic detail you seem to have ignored it and just gone back to shouting about it on a high level again. (‘I want, I get, I do not care how I get it, and I want it for no extra cost’)
Is this really how discussions work? I hoped we could trawl the nitty gritty of your more SOLID and REALISTIC ideas on a much deeper level. I must be strange, either that or – to quote you – maybe I need to “go all the way to your home to communicate with you?” if I want you to add more SOLID and REALISTIC detail so that you can may be convince all the doubters such as myself….
@mago mate just let it be. Amateur’s always right and everybody else’s always wrong. Everything he states is a FACT and he doesnt have to support it with examples or anything, because he’s the man. My advice to you, don’t waste your precious time argueing with him because as alot of people in here will tell you it’s just a waste of time.
hey Leeroi where u at? :)
@ Post 96
I still find your argument very dismissive and very poor, you could say the same thing about everything in life…
As for the sarcasm, your stupid question and your stupid argument sounds very sarcastic; I think it’s very hypocritical of you to criticize me for doing the same exact thing you did.
Oh, I do not mean to be sarcastic, I am just formulating a very solid argument *LMAO* yeah, a solid argument were you suggested that Konami would need to travel all over the world when we got the Internet; a solid argument were you said that I should pay $100 for Licensed Classic Players *LMAO*
Yeah, that REALISTIC AND SOLID argument of yours… I can destroy it with very simple FACTS.
Visual Concepts´s 2K11 costs $50 and it has Michael Jordan on it. EA Sports´s FIFA11 costs $50 and it has Licensed Classic Players; Konami’s PES costs $50 and it has barely improved in the last 5 years, and no, it does not includes Licensed Classic Players, it includes pumpkin heads and stone sculptures.
I do not need to pay $100 for Licensed Classic Players, your argument is unrealistic and subjective. Ignoring Maradona and Pele, it should be easy and it should be cheap due to OBVIOUS reasons that I will not bother mentioning because I don’t think it is necessary.
technophobe — Johan Cruijff is a very vocal technophobe, what does it matter? It only means that Cruijff will never appear in a video game.
Should that be an excuse for not including a single Classic Player in the game?
magoo: I was trying to help you find a solution. And you can’t use the “2K Basketball series” as an example, how much do you reckon MJ cost them? Again do you want to pay $100+ for your game each year?
I do not pay $100+ for the 2K Basketball series, as a matter of fact, I do not spend money on Basketball video games; however, the relevant FACT here is very simple, 2K11 costs $50, the very same number that I pay for PES and FIFA.
You were trying to help me find a solution?
I don’t know, your help and your solution sounded a lot more dismissive than constructive; your logic, based on nothing, based on your opinion.
2K11 and FIFA11 have Licensed Classic Players, these video games cost $50, the same as PES: why should I need to pay $100+ to have Licensed Classic Players in PES?
You sound like a PES fan-boy, thinking that PES is somehow above other video games, talking about money as if it actually affected you; I remind you, you do not work for Konami…
Saying that I should pay $100+ to have Licensed Classic Players in PES *LMAO* you are basically defending Konami against what exactly? Oh I forgot, you were just trying to help me find a solution… thank you, your help is greatly appreciated; great solution! very realistic and solid…
By the way, I still think your argument is very poor and very dismissive, which added to your offensive and equally redundant response makes it even more redundant and pointless.
pes 2011 is what pes 2010 should hav been
groovy baby
FACT Amateur is a Licenced Classic player FAN BOY
The interview on the whole is weak, great that he took the time but the answers are poor.
Like many i think the pumpkin heads are a joke and would prefer the net editor.
I can’t wait to see how Konami concentrating on online and gameplay turns out.
Say no to pumpkin heads !!
@112 Amateur
Amateur, you do realise you told me it’s stupid to suggest “Konami would need to travel all over the world when we got the Internet” (that wasn’t what i said but never mind) then argued against your point by claiming they wouldn’t get Johan Cruyff. Maradona or Pele unless they did something similar to that. You’ve just pointed out 3 examples where your ‘potentially-true-best-case-scenario-idea-that-will-magically-solve-all-problems’ doesn’t work. The defence rests when it comes to the point, thanks for that.
You call my examples “sarcastic” but I’m afraid your attempt to fit square pegs in round holes doesn’t work there, they are absurd in some case (e.g. Beatles). This is to greater highlight there is an angle you haven’t thought through and it’s an open invitation to fill it, in doing this it could convince everyone and have them ‘in your corner’ on your plea. (So I don’t know how you can describe my comment as “very dismissive”, “stupid” or “poor”, especially when there were valid points you never argued against)
The original intention was for you and like-minded folk to nail down what you wanted, that would help Dan, Dougie & Phil to know exactly what they should ask Konami for if they’re were to be convinced by your well filled in argument (as has happened by people sending them pictures and telling them about the nets). I can’t speak for them, but I don’t think you constant ranting on a vauge, non-fleshed out, best case scenario idea is going to convince them to speak to Jon about it.
$100 for game
What I’m saying is we can’t expect Konami to keep shelling out yet more money for licenses without expecting the cost to be passed on to us at some point.
Michael Jordan
MJ is one player so they can sink money into that because – like David Beckam shirts – the signing will pay for itself eventually. I don’t know if 2K have got other players like Scotty Pippen from MJs era (if not then your point holds even less weight) but even they do, it is possibly only one place they needed to go to get these players (the NBA) and not every individual with their own idea of what their image rights value is.
Every player cheap barring Pele and Maradona
I’m glad you can make that massive cut off point after those 2, I’d question if guys like Van Basten would cost less but heck even EVERY SINGLE old NFL player is supposed to get “ea 6000″ for their image rights, regardless of ability (http://www.gil4ff14.com/ff14/football-game-image-rights.html). So where does Konami get that money from
FIFA don’t make us pay for it
That’s because EA buy their way to success, everyone knows that, so they take the hit in the pocket.
Do not work for Konami
You say you don’t work for Konami yet you seem to think you have an executive’s position in the company and can state how many licensed players/teams you should get for your $50.
Sorry, 116 was me
every year the same ****
@ Post 115
At least I am a fan-boy of real football and of great players; by your definition of a fan-boy, that means that you are a net editor fan-boy *LMAO*
I would be a fan-boy of great players, of great inspiration, rather than be a whiny b**ch about the lack of a net editor *LMAO*
You guys are truly something…
@ Post 116
Dude, your argument is still kind of pointless in my opinion.
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magoo:
You’ve just pointed out 3 examples where your ‘potentially-true-best-case-scenario-idea-that-will-magically-solve-all-problems’ doesn’t work. The defence rests when it comes to the point, thanks for that.
The original intention was for you and like-minded folk to nail down what you wanted, that would help Dan, Dougie & Phil to know exactly what they should ask Konami for if they’re were to be convinced by your well filled in argument (as has happened by people sending them pictures and telling them about the nets). I can’t speak for them, but I don’t think you constant ranting on a vauge, non-fleshed out, best case scenario idea is going to convince them to speak to Jon about it.
$100 for game — What I’m saying is we can’t expect Konami to keep shelling out yet more money for licenses without expecting the cost to be passed on to us at some point.
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I do not need to come up with anything, I do not need to explain anything, I am not trying to CONVINCE anybody about anything… this is not an argument, this is a very simple request.
I do not care about whatever it may cost or not cost because I do not work for Konami; however, I do know that Visual Concepts has done it and that EA Sports has done it, 2K11 and FIFA11 costs the very same $50 that PES costs.
I am a consumer, I have a right to ask for things that I want, I pay for the video game: PES exists because of millions of consumers like myself and yourself.
I do not care about how much it costs, ignoring Pele and Maradona, it should be very cheap due to OBVIOUS reasons.
Konami does not pays Cristiano Ronaldo millions of dollars for his image, nor does it pays for Kaka, it’s all part of the FIFAPro License; logically, a retired footballer like Marco van Basten cannot ask for a large sum of money because no company will pay him a large sum of money for his image… it really is that simple.
Scotty Pippen is also in 2K11, the whole Chicago Bulls team is fully licensed, other teams from MJs era are also fully licensed: 2K11 costs $50, the very same number that PES and FIFA cost.
Do you think Scotty Pippen can actually get away with asking a lot of money in exchange for his image when Visual Concepts and EA Sports already have legendary players like Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson for free?
There’s no doubt, that if he could, he would ask for a significant amount of money; however, the FACT is that under the circumstances, a retired legend like Scotty Pippen cannot ask for a lot of money because he will not get it due to OBVIOUS reasons; companies like Visual Concepts and EA Sports and Konami want to make money, if Licensed Classic Players cost a LOT of money, then Visual Concepts and EA Sports would not be spending their money on Licensed Classic Players.
You can be 100% sure about that, Visual Concepts and EA Sports are companies, and like all companies, they are after the money; if Licensed Classic Players required as much effort and as much economical resources as you suggest… then video games like 2k11 and FIFA11 would not have licensed Classic Players.
Your so-called “solution” is stupid: Classic Players would cost money, so, Konami should not spend their money on Licensed Classic Players, end of.
Do you work for Konami or are you just a massive fan-boy?
Your argument is rather redundant and pointless, I do not have to explain myself as I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, this is a simple request, you wanted to turn it into an argument; your intention, I can only read the words… and your words are rather dismissive and redundant and subjective.
What I want is very simple,
Implement some 20 or 25 Classic Footballers with their real faces and names and stats, use the PES Shop so that we can unlock the Licensed Classic Players via PES Shop points, and give us the option of using them in MLO so that we get more variety.
Other companies have done it, I do not need to explain anything, I am a consumer, I pay for their product and I request things: I do not need to tell Konami how it should be done nor how it could be done.
@118 Amateur
I started by putting the possible questions out there (that I wish I’d just suggested to one of the columnists now) but you’re insults have forced me to defend, lets see what we can glean from the nonsense by looking at my original questions….
What do you think Konami would need to do to get these real players in the game?
GOOD: Contact some via internet
BAD: wine and dine the big names and those with jumped up ideas of their importance
Would it not involve spending an incredible amount of time going to each player separately (as they can’t just
go to their team)?
GOOD: Not for the technophobes
BAD: Yes for the big names and those with jumped up ideas of their importance
Would they not have to pay these players (if Pele is doing adverts for viagra or something then I’d PRESUME he’s getting paid handsomely to do them)?
GOOD: Some would be delighted for their representation to be honored in time for free
BAD: big names and those with jumped up ideas of their importance would command big fees (E.G. Lineker – who made a 1.5 million deal with Walkers for 5 years in 2000, I DOUBT he would get out of bed unless you offered him a 5 figure sum)
Should Konami maybe give us the ability to go fishing for the player licenses for these classic players for them?
NEITHER: This remains unclear
….thank you for informating me on the the NBA side of things (see it wasn’t that hard to be constructive was it? Although my comment about the money they’ll have paid Michael Jordan – like with Beckham/Ronaldo shirt sales – they will get back in added sales because his name will sell the game still stands) and you have made good points which are pretty much all the “GOOD” points above (E.G. with regards to players easy to contact via the internet, and some should be cheap). My points though were that there is the other side of the coin (the “BAD” points above ) we unfortunately can’t just ignore because these put obstacles in Konami’s way. So I really am still confused why you attacked me in the first place and am about exhausted of you calling my points “stupid” and “poor” etc when they seem pretty much the same as yours, it’s just mine point out the potential problems. (which any company will look at before they spend any money)
I know you say you don’t care how Konami does it you just want it done, but if you take that attitude then I doubt your pleas will be taken very seriously and people won’t respect your opinions. The fact is that Konami don’t have a name like MJ to sell the game around (if they shelled out the cash and made a PES special edition “Maradona’s Soccer”, would people buy that and PES in the same way they buy FIFA and FIFA WC? I don’t know) and Konami can’t compete with FIFA on a level playing field because EA would happily make a loss for 5 years on FIFA by licensing to the heavens if it meant they squeezed out the competition like they tried (and largely succeeded) in the 90s. Sorry for another extreme example but ignoring Konami’s potential problems is like Forest Green fans demanding they beat Man Utd in the FA cup, they don’t care how Forest Green do it, they just want it done.
BTW A quick figure count based on Classic Players demanding £4000 on average, 5 teams of 25 players equals half a million pounds! I’ve made the £4000 figure up obviously – and it may just be my pessimistic view again – but your Cantona’s, Baggios & Gazza’s are going to want way above £4000 which would bring the average of the other players up.
If you respond then please don’t just say “you dumb-dumb” or without considering the potential problems because at the moment I’m still someone who is trying to give you some credit despite you jumping to attack me.
Sorry….
“GOOD: Not for the technophobes”
….should have read….
“GOOD: Not for the non-technophobes”
@ 120 magoo
Yes but my point is still very simple,
I am using Visual Concepts and EA Sports as my point of reference; both companies are after the money, if Licensed Classic Players required that much effort, then surely, we would not have Licensed Classic Players in 2K11 and FIFA11.
As for your points, I will tell you what I think about some of them,
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GOOD: Contact some via internet
BAD: wine and dine the big names and those with jumped up ideas of their importance
———————————————-
In my opinion, the way you say it, it almost sounds as a club signing… I do not think something as trivial as a video game image would be expensive, nor important enough to have to wine and dine with them.
I do think that Pele and Maradona are the exception, as this guys are very famous and they act like it.
But players like: Fernando Hierro, Ruud Gullit, Michael Laudrup, Carlos Valderrama, Roberto Baggio, Dennis Bergkamp, Matt Le Tissier, Paolo Maldini, Gabriel Batistuta, Henrik Larsson, Pavel Nedved, Luis Figo, Roy Keane, Edgard Davids, Fernando Redondo, Costa Curta, etc, etc.
Most or all of the mentioned footballers featured in games like ISS on the N64, PES4 and PES5 on the PS2; I cannot imagine them asking for a lot of money, they are not worth that much money, this is not advertisement for Viagra; this is a video game…
I just do not see the comparison of Pele and the Viagra commercials, which is expensive; and his representation in a video game. In my opinion, it is very different.
In my opinion, only Pele and Maradona have sufficient FAME to be expensive; the rest of them, do not have enough world wide recognition to be worth anything that is not cheap.
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GOOD: Some would be delighted for their representation to be honored in time for free
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I think a lot of retired footballers would want to get in for free, just for the recognition alone: this may not be true, but in my opinion, I think many retired footballers would say yes as it would basically be FREE world wide recognition.
Similar to the YouTube video clips, a lot of people make YouTube videos about Pele, Maradona, Zidane, etc; yet, the people who produce the video clips, they never pay anything to Maradona for his image… it is FREE propaganda and recognition.
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BAD: big names and those with jumped up ideas of their importance would command big fees (E.G. Lineker – who made a 1.5 million deal with Walkers for 5 years in 2000, I DOUBT he would get out of bed unless you offered him a 5 figure sum)
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I still do not agree with this, I cannot say that it is a fact, but for me it is not something to be concerned of.
A person with a bit of common sense or business-like mentality, would know that if Kaka and CR7 are free due to the FIFAPro License, then no one in his right mind would pay 1.5 million just to have Gary Lineker in his video game; his image in a video game is not worth that much, no one would pay him so much money for such a trivial detail.
Your image in a video game, and your deal with Viagra or with Walker; in my opinion, these are entirely different circumstances and scenarios.
A commercial is a commercial; on the other hand, having players like Pele and Maradona in your video game is an entirely different thing, it is something trivial, only important to hardcore Football Fans, but the video game will sell more or less the same amount of copies with or without Licensed Classic Players.
The poster boy, like Leo Messi, needs to get paid because that’s advertisement; on the other hand, Licensed Classic Players that need to be unlocked… it should not be expensive because no one will ever spend much money on a trivial feature that will not be a major selling point.
Like I said, ONLY Maradona and Pele have sufficient FAME to get greedy and ask for a handsome deal; but 90% of retired footballers do not have the FAME nor the bragging rights to be expensive in this respect.
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magoo: My points though were that there is the other side of the coin (the “BAD” points above ) we unfortunately can’t just ignore because these put obstacles in Konami’s way. So I really am still confused why you attacked me in the first place and am about exhausted of you calling my points “stupid” and “poor” etc when they seem pretty much the same as yours, it’s just mine point out the potential problems.
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Because I found your initial argument very dismissive rather than constructive; now you are showing a more constructive intent, but in your initial response, everything you said was negative and dismissive.
By the way, I never attacked you personally in the 1st post I directed at you, I was merely elaborating on why I find your initial argument dismissive and redundant.
It was only after your 2nd response, the more offensive response, that I started openly describing your argument as stupid; which some people could take as a personal offense.
But if you go back to Post 89, you will find that I never described your argument as stupid, I was merely answering your question, which I think was a rather obvious question.
There will always be exceptions like Pele, Maradona, Johan Cruijff, Romario, Marco van Basten, Zinedine Zidane, etc.
But I don’t see why that should be an excuse for not including at least 5 or 10 or 15 Licensed Classic Players. This should be very easy to do as it has nothing to do with physics nor with gameplay, it is only a face, and in addition, it should be very cheap because this is not a commercial.
This is why we have Licensed Classic Players in FIFA08, FIFA09, FIFA10, and FIFA11; because it is cheap but also enough to gain recognition from the more old-school fans.
Then there’s always the possibility that some retired footballers might actually be PES Fans, in such a case, I think they would give their image for free; just for the FREE recognition alone.
I think that the reason for why we do not have any Licensed Classic Players, it’s just a matter of laziness… Konami does not have time for a Net Editor? Really? I mean, how much time can a net editor require?
Same thing with Licensed Classic Players, how expensive can it be to include Carlos Valderrama in PES11? how expensive can it be to include Fernando Hierro in PES11? how expensive would it be to include Matt Le Tissier in PES11?
It would be very cheap, perhaps even completely free, due to obvious and perfectly logical reasons; the truth is that Konami has not thought about it, Konmai is lazy; which is why games like the FIFA series and the 2K series have Licensed Classic Players, and yet, PES still does not has Licensed Classic Players nor a Net Editor and, as a matter of fact, the editing mode in PES5 and PES6 was actually better than the one we have in PES10.
How do you explain that PES5 had a better editing mode than PES10?
LAZINESS… there’s nothing more to it, that’s the sad truth, Konami fell behind because of their laziness, and even today you can see how their laziness affects some areas of the game.
i said a few months ago that konami would improve the core gameplay and tweak a few things and i think thats what they have done.the refs will be better which is really important.konami have never been a company for making massive changes year on year.in terms of correct squads this is a non issue as you can do the main transfers yourself in seconds for most teams and have the game up to date.net editors and weather wud be cool but lets face it not game breakers.we do at least already have diff net colours and a stadium editor now.
Can’t believe some of the comments….as long as the gameplay has improved I don’t care…couldn’t give two hoots about whether they have “realistic” nets!…that said would like the classic teams to reflect the best players from each country, not just random from teams in the past
@121 Amateur
“NBA 2K11″ teams effort
It seems they took alot of effort to get the players and take the chance that Jordan’s name would sell the game
“FIFA11″ teams effort
Is there not only like about 24 Classic players in it anyway? We can’t possible know how easy it was to get these players but we can imagine that EA could afford to employ one person to do that job of acquiring them.
“big names and those with jumped up ideas of their importance would command big fees”
I did not say they’d need to pay Lineker £1.5 million over 5 years like Walkers did in 2000, I used that as a yardstick to measure how much he’d then charge for allowing his name and image to be used, the figure I SUGGESTED was “5 figures”.
x players “featured in games like ISS on the N64, PES4 and PES5 on the PS2″
Yes, when they were licensed via their respective leagues, that means nothing now.
“now you are showing a more constructive intent”
That definitely isn’t true, in this latest comment I just added our different points to my initial “questions” (they were questions and I didn’t state anything I SHOULD have been criticised for, I was asking to be educated if my presumptions were wrong), I haven’t changed what I wrote so it can’t show “more constructive intent” than it did the first time.
“I never attacked you personally in the 1st post I directed at you”
That definitely isn’t true! You started your 1st response to me “Do I need an incredible amount of time to communicate with you? Do I need to go all the way to your home to communicate with you?” for goodness sake! Then it got worse with the sarcasm I’ve already pointed out (last paragraph, post 95) I think you should hold your hands up on that one and say you jumped the gun.
“describing your argument as stupid; which some people could take as a personal offense”
Calling someone’s comment “stupid” without directly backing it up is just ‘name calling’; a vague criticism. I could’ve described your 2 above points as simply “stupid”, but that is meaningless (as you have no substance to understand why I am saying what I’m saying) so instead told you it “isn’t true” due to your previous viewable comments. I could have called your internet comment in post 88 (when you contradicted yourself) “stupid” but that’s meaningless so helpfully described as “illogical” then gave the extreme Beatles example to make it obvious to you why. It’s just simple etiquette and consideration and respect for others, again I must say that if you use that ‘name calling’, vague criticism all the time on other’s points, they’ll just dismiss you as someone who shouts mindlessly for the sake of it, like a drunk on the street corner. (I mean would you keep listening to someone who tells you your point is stupid but they won’t say directly why?)
“go back to Post 89, you will find that I never described your argument as stupid, I was merely answering your question”
I’ve already covered point 89 with your ‘come to your home’ comment, but the words “dismissive” (sorry but questions – which is what I first posted – can’t be dismissive, questions are the opposite of that) and “very poor” are about as vague as the word “stupid”.
“There will always be exceptions like Pele, Maradona, Johan Cruijff, Romario, Marco van Basten, Zinedine Zidane, etc.”
Exactly the flipping point I’ve kept making!!! There will be big name people that will be a problem financially, and what’s more you’ve just added even more players in this last post of yours which I feel you are spot on with. (plus I feel you need to add Cantona, Baggio & Gazza to that list) You can also add the 24 players that FIFA have already got (if 24 is right, although I think Cantona is in that 24) because they also probably could have an exclusivity deal with FIFA.
(BTW your example of Romario is probably a better example than even Maradona as – along with the Brazilian Ronaldo – only their numbers were shown in place of their names due to licensing….. and that was in FIFA!!!)
So you seem to agree now that SOME players will not come cheap when it comes to getting them as Classic Licensed Players, you just don’t agree about SOME players with “jumped up ideas of their importance” demanding money. To that I would like to point you towards the court cases I found on Google that prove that SOME sportsman go after their ‘pound of flesh’….
- Jim Brown (ok he was a legend, and he lost his case, but still tried)
- Eddie Irvine
- Oliver Kahn (rumour was he apparently didn’t like his stats being so low! :) )
- the 6000 ex-NFL players court case against EA (the “ea 6000″ I spoke of earlier – I thought it meant “exa-annum” (I.E. a one-off 6000 payment) but it’s a court case so big it’s got it’s own nickname)
- AND most of all Ed O’Bannon, Sam Keller and Craig Newsome who are suing for their image rights being used…. and they basically all only played at flippin’ college! (well Ed O’Bannon apparently spent 2 years in the NBA)
@ 124 magoo
Listen dude, I really do not like name-calling anymore than you do… but I really still find your argument stupid and redundant.
Sorry, but that’s how I feel about your argument, I think it is childish, boring, redundant, dismissive, and plain stupid.
I will not apologize for the sarcasm, your question and your argument deserved the sarcasm; too bad you can’t take some light hearted sarcsam, that’s not my fault.
The only constructive thing you have said is that some footballers would not bother asking for money and would give their image for free; as this is not a commercial nor an advertisement board.
That’s the only constructive bit of info you have produced so far, you did not mentioned that bit of info in your 1st post; which made your 1st post entirely redundant.
You do not show respect and yet you ask for respect in return: that is not going to happen I’m afraid.
By the way, this was never meant to be an argument, my request is simple: Visual Concepts and EA Sports do it, if it costed that much money they would not do it because it would produce a drop in profit.
So, if Visual Concepts and EA Sports have done it, this means that Konami can also do it; this is a request based on facts, this is not an argument based on my opinion and what I think helps my argument.
I do not care about the economical limitations of Konami, on one hand I do not work for them and theefore I do not know their economical situation; on the other hand, Konami is not exactly a small company and PES is not exactly a small franchise, they have enough money.
Anyways,
When I feel that FIFA has good player individuality and good graphics, then I will probably switch sides, as Licensed Classic Players is a very attractive detail for an old-school football geek such as myself.
So, Konami does not has money and yet Visual Concepts and EA Sports do have enough money for such details? Well, I guess I will switch sides as soon as I find a decent FIFA game, if it ever happens.
And lastly, I am just bored with your redundant argument: I do not care about your argument nor about your opinion regarding Licensed Classic Players, to hell with it.
“your argument stupid”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, no substance from you again
“childish, boring, redundant, dismissive, and plain stupid.”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, a “question” (which is what I gave) is the opposite of “dismissive”, now you’ve added “childish, boring, redundant” to your list of vague ‘name calling’. More name calling and yet you call me childish!!! :) :)
“only constructive thing[...] some footballers [....] give their image for free” [....] is not a commercial nor an advertisement board”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, that is a best case scenario that you seemed to adopt as gospel for all until you forgot then contradicted yourself later, only to recontradict here (like you did when you denied you attacked on me in your first post). I asked the QUESTION (see, one of them question thingies again) “Would they not have to pay these players” and gave an example of why I ASKED that, So I’ve not change my stance because it was a QUESTION at first so my first post is not redundant as there is no stance in it.
“You do not show respect”
Yep, I’ve already covered that, that’s why I asked a question to those better informed (I hoped that to be you) then gave examples to your comments rather than just saying ‘you a dumb-dumb’ (I really think you’re forgetting I can look at the previous rope you’ve hung yourself with on these postings). Now you’re using a substance-less ‘”no! You are!’, and you call me childish!!! :) :)
“Visual Concepts and EA Sports do it”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, poster boy pays for himself (like Beckham shirts) and money-bags corporation shells out to try to produce a monopoly (except I believe they only ‘shelled out’ for 24 players)
“I do not care about the economical limitations of Konami”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, your substance-less `I don’t want, I don’t care how, I just want it`, and you call me childish!!! :) :)
“redundant argument”
in my previous post I came out with several examples (yes that’s SOLID examples) of sportsman with “jumped up ideas of their importance” and you claim that was “redundant”? you need to look up the definition of the word kiddo.
“your question and your argument deserved the sarcasm”
Ah the one bit of genuine REAL information, you admit it, you lied before, at least I know to keep your propensity to do this in mind next time I see a comment of yours.
So nothing new at all in this new post of yours towards ‘your corner’, by the way, a conversation thread should progress, unless a counter brings it back in a loop (which it didn’t here). It shouldn’t involve you going back to things you’ve already said before that have been countered and you can pretend to yourself “ha! bet he can’t beat that! just because you have actually written some ream of Deja Vu.
It’s sad, I started this by being behind your idea for Classic Licensed Players and asked the questions that worried me (even suggested an idea) in the hope you’d come up with ideas I hadn’t even considered as a response, hoping this would strengthen my belief that it wasn’t impossible. Since your first paragraph you’ve pushed me into a corner and made defend myself by looking into SOLID reasons that have now made me think that it isn’t going to happen unless there’s some law change on licensing.
You’ve depressed me now….
@ 127 magoo
What the hell is the matter with you? do you still not understand that you are arguing with yourself and that you created an argument out of thin air and that I do not owe you anything?
You asked the questions that worried you, yeah, because it is of your concern how much it costs? do you happen to work for Konami by any chance?
Dude, you do not produce PES, you are a CONSUMER, you PAY for the product; you should not be worrying about something that is none of your business.
Again, it is a stupid and redundant argument that you have tried to push me into; I continue saying that this is a simple request based on simple FACTS, and you continue trying to turn it into an argument revolving around YOUR worries.
I do not care about YOUR worries, it does not concerns me whatever Konami has to do, PES is not my business; I do not earn money because of PES, I spend money on PES.
I don’t care about your opinion because there is nothing to discuss, this is a request, this is not an argument: I never encouraged a debate nor did I expected someone creating a debate out of thin air.
Dude — grow up,
You continue making use of the word “substance” *LMAO* you don’t even know what that word means. Facts speak so much louder than words will ever do, your argument is in fact redundant and stupid and egocentric, but whatever; if it makes you happy, continue making an ass of yourself.
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magoo: “I was trying to get us to come up with REALISTIC AND SOLID ideas that don’t rely on a ‘potentially-true-best-case-scenario-idea-that-will-magically-solve-all-problems. I was trying to help you find a solution.”
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I am happy I depressed you, you are easily depressed, must be the reason for why you wasted your time and my time formulating this redundant argument in which according to yourself, your intent was to help me find a solution; and I ask, a solution to what?
I have read your words and there is no way your intent was to try to help me find a solution. This thing about REASON and about a SOLUTION is all YOU, you think there is a problem, and you think there should be a solution to this problem, and you are questioning myself because I did not answered a question that is redundant as far as I’m concerned.
And yet, you say that “I was trying to help you find a solution” — yes — because finding a solution to YOUR problem will help me or make my simple request more convincing?
You call me a liar and yet you say “I was trying to help you find a solution”, which is clearly a big fat lie. Not only do I find your argument stupid and redundant, I also find it offensive.
You say that your intent was one thing, yet, your words say something entirely different.
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magoo: “Yep, I’ve already countered that, that is a best case scenario that you seemed to adopt as gospel for all until you forgot then contradicted yourself later, only to recontradict here (like you did when you denied you attacked on me in your first post) — “your question and your argument deserved the sarcasm” — Ah the one bit of genuine REAL information, you admit it, you lied before, at least I know to keep your propensity to do this in mind next time I see a comment of yours.”
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In your opinion, I attacked you; on the other hand, in my opinion, I did not attacked you. Do you see? Not everything revolves around YOUR opinion.
In your opinion, I lied about the sarcasm thing; in fact, I never said that I did not used sarcasm, I simply decided not to state the obvious.
In your opinion, I contradicted myself; on the other hand, as far as I´m concerned I never contradicted myself.
In your opinion, you were trying to help me find a solution; on the other hand, I do not think it was in your best interest to help my find a solution, starting with the fact that you wanted to find a solution to a problem that you created yourself.
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magoo: “It shouldn’t involve you going back to things you’ve already said before that have been countered and you can pretend to yourself “ha! bet he can’t beat that! just because you have actually written some ream of Deja Vu. It’s sad, I started this by being behind your idea for Classic Licensed Players and asked the questions that worried me (even suggested an idea) in the hope you’d come up with ideas…”
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Don’t you see? Not everything revolves around YOUR opinion. Consider this comment the last time I waste my time on this redundant argument of yours, PES is not my business, your problem does not exists as far as I’m concerned.
Have a good time finding the solution and ideas that you crave; PEACE.
@ 127 Amateur
“you created an argument out of thin air [....] I never encouraged a debate [....] I also find it offensive. [...] In your opinion, I attacked you”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 124, paragraph 6 (ignore ‘@’ line); I proved you attacked me (by quoting you, so it’s not my opinion, again I used FACTS) when I merely asked a question.
“CONSUMER, you PAY for the product; you should not be worrying [....] I do not care about YOUR worries, it does not concerns me whatever Konami has to do”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 126, paragraph 6 ; `I don’t want, I don’t care how, I just want it`
“I continue saying that this is a simple request based on simple FACTS [....] you think there is a problem”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 124, paragraph 9; it isn’t simple, there are potential problems players, a fact you sometimes acknowledge and sometimes don’t
“Dude — grow up, [....] argument is in fact redundant and stupid and egocentric [....] You say that your intent was one thing, yet, your words say something entirely different.”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 126, paragraph 2; ‘name calling’ because you criticise without actually backing up with facts. BTW “egocentric”? I am not the one (repeatedly) spouting my own views on someone else’s posts without using facts to back it up, I certainly wouldn’t call my comments “egocentric”.
“You continue making use of the word “substance” *LMAO* you don’t even know what that word means. Facts speak so much louder than words”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 124, paragraph 7; backing words up with examples, and see post 124, paragraph 7 ‘No! You are’
“your intent was to help me find a solution; and I ask, a solution to what?”
Yep, I’ve already covered that, Post 95 paragraph 6 (BTW that wasn’t taken from my last post?); a way to stop Konami ignoring your request.
“I have read your words and there is no way your intent was to try to help me find a solution”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 126, paragraph 2; ‘name calling’. Why is it name calling? Well you are saying I am trying to cause trouble yet fail to add any facts, yet again.
““I was trying to help you find a solution”, which is clearly a big fat lie [....] I do not think it was in your best interest to help my find a solution”
Yep, I’ve already covered that, Post 95 paragraph 6.
“I never said that I did not used sarcasm”
Yep, YOU’VE already covered that (This must be getting embarrassing for you?), Post 88 in your paragraph 4 to me, You said “I am not being sarcastic”. Also YOU’VE covered that in your post Post 125 paragraph 3 where you say “your question and your argument deserved the sarcasm”. You do realise that unlike a verbal conversation with you, I can point to words on this page to disprove things?
“In your opinion, I contradicted myself; on the other hand, as far as I´m concerned I never contradicted myself.”
Yep, I’ve already covered that, Post 126 paragraph 3. On Post 88 (paragraph 3) you say there’s “this thing called the internet” we can contact the footballers through” then post 121 you mention “Pele, Maradona, Johan Cruijff, Romario, Marco van Basten, Zinedine Zidane, etc” (“etc” indicating more than 6) may be harder to get PLUS you’d need to pay them, then in Post 125 you say “footballers would not bother asking for money and would give their image for free” so suddenly they won’t ask for money any more. So it’s not my opinion, it’s your words I’m ‘quoting’. Again I ask, you do realise that unlike a verbal conversation with you, I can point to words on this page to disprove things?
“you wanted to find a solution to a problem that you created yourself.”
Yep, I’ve already countered that, see post 124, paragraph 10; I thought there would be sticking points and even came up with a possible solution (Post 95 paragraph 6) which I thought you might better or it my inspire you to better (“in the hope you’d come up with ideas I hadn’t even considered as a response”)
“I don’t care about your opinion [....] Don’t you see? Not everything revolves around YOUR opinion”
Yet you come on a forum where it’s all about opinions. It definitely doesn’t revolve around my opinion because IN MY ORIGINAL COMMENT I ASKED QUESTIONS, how many times do I have to tell you that? Just because you don’t ask questions it doesn’t mean any one else’s doesn’t, so every comment isn’t an opinion, so you don’t have to argue against all of them. Again I say you jumped the gun by attacking me.
BTW Are you just copy and pasting these ‘fresh’ comments from your old ones? I’ve also had to group some of your paragraphs together from your previous comment because you repeat yourself, are you taking breaks half way through typing them and forgetting what you’ve already wrote? Or again are you thinking because you’ve said the same thing twice (which has already been countered) that it must make it a valid ‘fresh’ new point, whether it’s in the same post or not?
lol magoo and amateur “your stupid no your stupid”. seriously man stop bickering we all have different opinions.agree to disagree and talk about the game itself.
:) I was just setting the record straight jamesi. I didn’t start it and so I wasn’t gonna take the unfair factless punches and not respond.
I talked the other day about how Konami could get a poster boy for Pro Evo like NBA 2K11 did (if they wanted to take the risk that he would sell the game) and came up with “Maradona’s Soccer” off the top of my head which was very basic and unimaginative.
But a name I’m happier with popped into my head the other day with a different poster boy…..
“Pele PES”
….I think that’s got a far better ring to it when you say it quickly! :)
@ 129 magoo
You do realize that in YOUR opinion you have countered all these things; on the other hand, the FACT is that you have not countered anything because your stupid argument and your reasons fall over themselves to give way to the fact that your argument is in fact redundant.
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“magoo: Yet you come on a forum where it’s all about opinions. It definitely doesn’t revolve around my opinion because IN MY ORIGINAL COMMENT I ASKED QUESTIONS, how many times do I have to tell you that? Just because you don’t ask questions it doesn’t mean any one else’s doesn’t, so every comment isn’t an opinion, so you don’t have to argue against all of them. Again I say you jumped the gun by attacking me.”
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You say I do not ask questions: when did I ever asked a question? did I even wanted to ask questions?
It was not part of my agenda to ask stupid questions similar to yours, as far as I’m concerned, I do not need to ask any questions and therefore I do not need to answer any questions either.
You say PESGmaing is a forum where it’s all about opinions: you asked YOUR question, I answered YOUR question… why do you have a problem with MY opinion?
I did say that IN MY OPINION your argument is redundant and plain stupid: why do you have a problem with my opinion?
You imposed your argument and your opinion as if it was a fact, then you said that this is all a matter of opinions; yet, when I say that IN MY OPINION your argument is redundant and stupid… somehow you disagree with that, yet it is my opinion.
I remind you that I never attacked you in Post 89; you think I attacked you, however, in my opinion I did not attacked you nor did I even tried to attack you: what makes you think YOUR opinion rules over mine?
I also remind you that I was the only person who bothered asking your stupid question; I was the only person who actually took some of his time to answer your question.
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magoo: “I was just setting the record straight jamesi. I didn’t start it and so I wasn’t gonna take the unfair factless punches and not respond.”
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Setting the record straight, yet, who created the redundant argument?
You were setting the record straight on an argument that you created yourself: factless punches you say, I remind you again that what YOU consider “factless punches” is not something that I agree with.
Is the FACT that Visual Concepts and EA Sports have done it not solid enough for you?
Is your argument somehow more relevant? A walkers deal is more relevant than what Visual Concepts and EA Sports are doing? I though PES was a video game…
Why are you comparing PES with Viagra commercials and Walkers propaganda? Why do you not make a more realistic comparison with Visual Concepts and EA Sports, which are companies that develop video games?
My whole request revolves around the FACT that Visual Concept and EA Sports have already done it in the past and are expanding on a yearly basis; how can you call it factless when it revolves around such a simple FACT?
You said I started it — I did not started it.
You say factless punches — you are clearly delusional, as my whole request (not an argument) revolves around simple FACTS such as the FACT that Visual Concepts and EA Sports have already done it with their video games.
You are lying, you say you did not started it yet the FACT is that you did started it, you started this war on terror based on YOUR opinion of what an attack is according to YOUR ideologies or concepts; however, and I remind you, I never attacked you in Post 89.
You can say and reiterate that I attacked you in Post 89, however, that does not make YOUR opinion a FACT; which consequently makes your entire argument redundant and stupid.
You say that PESGaming is all about opinions, yet you seem to have problems assimilating the fact that in my opinion I think your argument is stupid and redundant, I already explained why.
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magoo: “I was trying to get us to come up with REALISTIC AND SOLID ideas that don’t rely on a ‘potentially-true-best-case-scenario-idea-that-will-magically-solve-all-problems. I was trying to help you find a solution.”
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Your have waste your time and my time formulating this redundant argument in which according to yourself, your intent was to help me find a solution; and I ask, a solution to what?
I have read your words and there is no way your intent was to try to help me find a solution. This thing about a SOLUTION is something that you created, you think there is a PROBLEM because you are talking about a SOLUTION, and you think there should be a solution to this problem…
And you are questioning myself because YOU did not liked my answer, I did not answered the question the way YOU wanted me to answer it.
And yet, you say that “I was trying to help you find a solution” — yes — because finding a solution to YOUR problem will help me or make my simple request more convincing?
You call me a liar and yet you say “I was trying to help you find a solution”, which is clearly a big fat lie. Not only do I find your argument stupid and redundant, I also find it offensive.
You say that your intent was one thing, yet, your words say something entirely different: that’s called DECEPTION, in real life it is something very dangerous.
your problem does not exists as far as I’m concerned.
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magoo: “I was trying to get us to consider the REALISTIC implications, I was trying to help find the solution to your problem. Pretty much all of your attack on me was completely unnecessary and it lacked pretty much any fact to back it up.”
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I already said to you that this PROBLEM of yours does not exists as far as I’m concerned: why do you want to force YOUR problem down my throat?
Why do you want to make me believe that it is MY problem when you created the PROBLEM yourself?
I repeat, I did not attacked you in Post 89, you only think I attacked you, however, the fact is that I was merely answering your question with a sarcastic tone; though apparently, you consider my answer an attack *LMAO* the War on Terror begins… ignited by YOUR opinion, not FACTS.
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magoo: “Or again are you thinking because you’ve said the same thing twice (which has already been countered) that it must make it a valid ‘fresh’ new point, whether it’s in the same post or not?”
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I have always maintained that my REQUEST is very simple, I have reiterated that it was never meant to be an ARGUMENT, I have reiterated that it revolves around simple FACTS, I have reiterated that I do not want nor intend to convince anybody about anything…
Throughout the series of posts, I have always maintained that YOUR problem is redundant and does not exists as far as I’m concerned: why are you expecting me to come with “fresh” new points to YOUR problem?
Why do you also expect me to take the blame for something that I did not do? I did not attacked you, why do you want me to accept and take the blame for doing something that I didn’t do?
Oh, wait, you say you have already “countered” this… Is it me or do you have a problem accepting my opinion? or are you still trying to help my find a solution to my problem?
“stupid” & “redundant” etc childish playground name calling repeated several times to convince yourself it’s a fresh argument again, forgetting you answered the ‘best possible scenario’ at first then realised the problems weren’t as simple (after I pointed this out) before you reverted back to your original opinion, I’ve quoted you (quotes are pretty factual) to prove you threw the first punch by attacking my QUESTIONS and lied, I’ve dealt in facts and you speculation, Visual Concepts use poster boy, EA Sports throws ridiculous money at 24 players, commercials are the only yardsticks we have to rights deals money (except for the several court case I pointed out of course), proved I was trying to find solution when I quoted my suggestion….
Yep I’ve answered all this all before, you’ve copied and pasted the same ‘questions-already-countered’ again that you have several times before.
“do you have a problem accepting my opinion”
Which one? Your 1st, 2nd or your 3rd (which was a combination of the 1st and 3rd!!!!!!!)
THE ONE NEW MORSEL IN THIS REAM?
“I was the only person who actually took some of his time to answer your question”
May be tells you and me what people feel about your argument or how embarrassed they are by your aggressive attitude in your replies to posts that don’t deserve it, like post with QUESTIONS!!!! (again, sigh)
RECORDS SET
I think you may have set a record for your repetition of ‘questions-already-countered’ in one post! Great effort! Sometimes you’ve even said the exact same thing in subsequent paragraphs (without fleshing it out in the 2nd one as is standard…. well …. in life). To say the exact same thing in subsequent paragraphs can be described as – sorry to nick your favourite word that you use but YOU never back up with reasons or facts which would add any sort of meaning to it – REDUNDANT!
I really hope you’re coping and pasting all your ‘fresh’ comments otherwise you’ll get to 70, look back on life, and realise you lost 90% of it typing the same argument that people have already proved to you are short sighted…make that 95%.
Pes is absolute ****e, no doubt about it. Fifa have made the perfect football game since Fifa 09 came out.
To all the deluded Pro evo fans, get yourself a copy of the best footy game ever made! FIFA 11!!!!
“Pele PES” would probably be a flop ;)
@134 Duffman
:) :) :) :) Quality! :)