PES Off!! 2nd July 2009
Posted by dougiedonut in PES 2009 News on Thu 02 Jul
Thanks again to the wide range of comments to my article last week. There were a couple in particular which I feel I would like to discuss further, and would appreciate some more comments on from you guys out there.
Firstly, I’d like to discuss the comments left by RFC-CHAMPS-09, who asked why we can’t expect a perfect game from PES2010.
Without trying to sound patronising, I think it’s fair to say there is no such thing as a perfect game! There will always be aspects that can be improved/changed for future editions. The real question therefore is can we expect a more complete game both offline and online.
Again there is no easy answer to this to satisfy everyone. I would like to turn the question round, and ask you guys what features being present would convince you that this is the game for you? I’d like to answer this question myself by saying that PES needs the following for me to be fully satisfied:
1) a game engine that is a simulation of the sport, which allows us to tailor it to our own style.
2) increased and improved player animations for dribbling, performing tricks and shooting
3) a return to the control system of PES6 which allows you to use the right analog stick to perform tricks
4) fully functional online play, with no more lag issues for ANYONE! Online play is a massive feature for many of us, and if this feature fails, then Konami are as good as advertising FIFA ‘10 for EA.
There are plenty of other things I’d like to see, but if the above four points were satisfactorily addressed, then it would prove to me definitely that Konami are changing their ways, and creating People’s Evolution Soccer.
So RFC-CHAMPS-0, I’d like to know what you think to what I have to say there.
The next question I’d like to address was by someone with the rather crude name “Doesnt by shitty games”, who clearly writes shitty English (no offence mate! 8-] ), who asked the very valid question:
What if PES2010 turns out to be another dissappointment?
Again this is a very valid question, and one which again I think I’d like to hear from all of you guys to know what your answer to this pertinent question is.
Whilst we wait anxiously for more and more signs that we can expect an improved game, I think it is important for us to almost make one last protest to Konami, and make it clear what another year of dissappointment really would mean to you. Please remember to keep the language clean. Konami reps are regulars on our site, and offensive messages won’t help our cause. On that point, I would like to thank the majority of people who have shown maturity on this site, and have been very respectful towards other members and Konami in particular. You’re all a credit to our site.
Talking about offensive comments, I’d like to apologise to Amateur for a nasty comment that was left on the site for a couple of days before I took it off.
Basically I had a very busy weekend, and it wasn’t until the Monday morning (2/3 days after it was posted) that I got round to deleting the comment, and banning the originator of it. I do try to obliterate comments and users as soon as I can, which hopefully many of you can attest to.
If it’s any consolation to you Amateur – I think I have banned a record number of people who have been picking on you! So you’ve helped clean the site up plenty – so thanks for that!
I’d like to cut it a little short at this point, because I think the above two questions are very important and should remain the focal point of my column this week.
Please do leave your replies to the questions, and also ask friends who don’t normally frequent this site who are PES fans to do so too.
I know we have left a good few reminders over the last few months for Konami to take onboard, but this is one final push to give them a final reminder of what PES means to us, since they will be fast approaching the final phase of production very soon.
Thanks for reading.
Dougiedonut
(dougiedonut@pesgaming.com)
I have very high hopes of pes2010. All the tidbits of info recieved to date are pointing in the right direction.however, if konami dont deliver this year and ea do, then i’ll be buying fifa10 instead no doubt.but honestly i think they’ll both be really good games.
I will be getting PES2010 come what may.
What i do hope for however is they go back to basics. I don’t care about presentation, tricks, teams etc.
I feel as though PES becomes more scripted, with more animations (meaning more watching and less control) every year. I want to feel in control again and as though the ball is free and its own entity again.
That’s what took PES to its original fame and it’s the only thing capable of restoring the franchise to its former glory.
The only thing that i care is the online mode which sucks 2 years now.Read what Hatsumi said at konami’s site about the online mode on pes2010.
“Hello. Hatsumi again.
Today, I would like to explain online play for PES 2010. I’m really
aware how important an issue online play is to the fans and we know
we’ve got to get it right this year.
However, I’d like to say here and now that not only have we fixed the lag and warp problems of the past, but we thoroughly overhauled the entire online system! I know people are going to want to see proof of this, but I’m 100% confident in my predictions.
>>>>>???>>>>??>>
Wait now 3 months to see if all of these statements are true
From what I’ve heard so far, Pes 2010 is def heading in the right direction. I’d like to see:
- Much improved Masters League with more teams, league cup to include all divisions, pressure from board to succeed, players having transfer requests… etc etc.
- Improved player annimations and improved passing.
- Improved goalkeepers with more stats.
- Stop the scripted AI eg defender coming across to tackle without you asking them to!
- Slow the speed of the game down! Not as slow as Fifa but somewhere in between Fifa 09 and PES 2009.
If all the above happens I’ll be a very happy chappy :)
If PES 2010 is just a re-hashed 2009 then that really will be it for me :( I’ll jump ship to the dreaded EA franchise.
I want to actually see that a lot of effort has gone in to PES 2010. I quite like PES 2009 but you get the feeling that Konami spent about 5 minutes on trying to improve the Masters League. THIS HAS TO CHANGE!!!!
here’s the fifa 10 first trailer… alot of fans aren’t too impressed (although there are some good moments), I wonder what you guys have to say, especially the guys who claimed they could recognize PES’s 8 directional movement from a non gameplay trailer..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoYMKH6F-xI&fmt=22
@ 6 moon flower
Same old thing from Fifa – A very flashy trailer that actually shows very little about the game! Why don’t they actually show some footage from a decent camera angle so we can see how the ball moves, what the animations are like etc. I learnt nothing from that, except that the graphics look pretty much same as Fifa 09.
1) “Massively Improved” ML mode, with better and more negotiation options, better and more contract options, better and more integration with Champions/Europa League, and increasing the difficulty level beyond top player(its too easy to win everything year after year)
2) Overal AI inteligence, that adapts at “real time” to player tactics, formation changes, frequently used players, style of play, etc. Better still is if the AI studied the last 50 games played or so and applied tactics accordingly – smartly taking into account the star players of the “human” selected team.
3) “Revamped” BAL mode, with better and more contract options, AI improvement, Ratings, and most importantly effective and tailored player growth.
4) One should not need to mention having a good online mode; it should be obvious! The focus should be on an online community; what plans do Kpnami have here?
my 2cents.
==============
Its too late to ask the question “If PES turns out to be a failure… ?” I have made up my mind already – and my budget – to take FIFA out for a real spin…. sigh…
PLEASE DONT BALLS THIS ONE UP!
What I’d like from PES2010 is more agile movement from the players, especially when not holding the ball (ie on defense) they don’t seem to realize that being near the touchline should require more subtle movements and I’ve seen too many times players dribbling straight beyond the touchline when mashing the opposite direction.
Also, better AI is a must. It’s far too easy to win everything in ML on top player and also fix the pass pathfinding, I die a little inside everytime a player fails the logic test and makes a completely incoherent pass.
ML needs to be revamped, a possible solution is having top players like Cristiano Ronaldo demanding such high wages that you can’t afford to sign an entire team of superstars lest your wage bill reach stratospheric heights. Therfore, you need to balance the superstars (Ronaldo, Kaka…ect) with the more balanced lower players (Fletcher, Gattuso…ect)
Also, I suggest the PES team look to their fellow Konami employees, the MLB Power Pro team (also known as Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū) to see how a BAL mode should be done. I haven’t played baseball in my life but I was addicted to MLB Power Pros “success mode” which had a player created character in an RPG mode to reach the big leagues. great stuff.
To me, the question “what if 2010 is another dissapointment” is a leading question, since not everyone is entirely dissapointed in PES 09.
That being said, if PES 2010 isn’t an improvement, then I for one will be disappointed.
I’m going to turn the question around on you though, and asnwer the question “what aspects of gameplay or features, if they ARE in PES 2010 would cause you to be disappointed?”
1. If the 90 degree turn move and animation remain as effective and unrealistic.
2. If they continue to use the simplified control scheme introduced in 09. I think it was a huge mistake to map the special controls to the D pad. We should at least have the option to use the classic control scheme, where the right analog is used for roulettes (as DD mentioned), etc, and the shoudler button is the modifier.
3. If BAL the player ratings system is the same. I liked it so much better in J League Fantasista.
4. If XBOX 360 owners still aren’t able to import music (this sounds silly, but for next year I really hope to be able to do this, since I play PES every day and want my own tunes!)
5. If the gameplay is too radically changed so that it no longer feels at all like PES, though I think that is unlikely.
6. And finally, I hope the game is harder than last year’s and that the AI is smarter. I have a nagging fear from reading many of the comments left by fans that Konami will end up making the game too easy based on some of the remarks I’ve read. I think they really need to focus on making the lower difficulty levels more playable, and also to cater to the players who want a seriously significant challenge.
Pes has to recreate the passion and precision that propelled it to fame on the PS2. This would convince me that their minds are back on creating a great game and not on doing the minimum amount of work for maximum profit.
The PS2 series, unfortunately, is now becoming no more than a fading memory. With FIFA producing what is possibly the most realistic looking and fluid passing football simulation seen to date on any system – this is indeed a very big year for Konami and the Pes franchise.
I think if 2010 turns out to be another disappointing year for Seabass and Pro Evo, then at least we have the conciliation that Konami are now listening to their fans and are willing to use this advice to fix what has become a very average football game.
I believe the big question that will be answered the second we get our hands on the demo is: have Konami really brought in a new game engine?
The first time I played Pes2009 I knew within a few passes that it was a rehash of the very poor 2008 engine. In many ways the passing in Pes2009 is actually worse than its predecessor, because you feel more restricted.
If Pes2010 is to be a success – in my eyes – when I download the demo and kick that first ball I want to feel the same as I did with Pes1 almost a decade ago.
If, like last year, we get nothing but empty promises and familiar Pes2009 slightly improved game play, then it will show me that Konami have got a lot to learn about the ‘listening to your fans game’ – come on Konami prove me wrong!
hey guys here is the link if you want to see some of the new features earlier than next thursday. http://pes2008editing.blogspot.com/
Again good article and some good intelligent comments especially the four points that should be in pes2010.
I do think konami have been listening and what is apparent more then anything else from forums and fan discussions all over the net is peoples love for pes06 which is certainly in my view the benchmark for the pes series that konami has yet to better interms of quick flowing gameplay.
As for the option to do the tricks off the right thumbstick this should be included in pes2010 for d-pad users and if your a left thumbstick user like me we should have the choice to toggle between this and the pes09 setup that way where all happy.
@steve mcdermott-12
I like your comment about pes2010 needing to make you feel like the first time you played pes1 and also want a similiar feeling and experience when i fire up pes2010 and think personally that ultra realistc player animation and graphics coupled with pes06 gameplay and a job lot of refinement to pes09 ai will certainly achieve this.
My gut instinct tells me konami have been working on another game and engine over the last 3 years while just tweaking and polishing pes08 to make pes09 last year only incorporating there advances in lighting,ai and ball physics into pes2009 and that where all in for a big suprise shortly.
Konami arent stupid they know they have to raise the bar and what peoples expectations are for a modern football game……..
if this is true all my prayers have been answered-
READ THIS: This info is not confimed by Konami so it is not 100% proven to be right. We will know more in the mid of July after the releases of OPM (7th), PSM3 (9th) and the expire of the NDA on July 15th.
Gameplay:
Brand new motion captured animation sets for all areas such as running, passing, shooting, tackling, goalkeeping etc. Even the ball and nets have been motion captured to enhance the realism of the new title.
Player movement is one of the biggest fundamental changes the gameplay formula this year. PES 2010 now incorporates 360 degree movement for the players allowing greater control than ever before. 360 degree movement had been tested before, but due to time constraints, a smaller development team and the previous animation set it was very hard to incorporate.
Off the ball movement is much better now. Players make better off the ball runs into open space when attacking, and backtrack into key defensive zone positions. All of this can be initiated by a push of the button. Similar to the Wii in this respect. Can also be done during set pieces.
Substitutes on the bench now actually look like your selected substitutes. No longer randomly generated characters. Also have a nice warm up animation on the sideline before coming on.
Invisible wall for throw-ins has now gone.
Manual passing now has an option to be used on the X/A button instead of the right analog stick.
Due to the game incorporating 360 degree control the analog stick will be the only option of player movement. The new advanced on-the-fly tactics system will now be done on the d-pad. One of the biggest changes to the game ever.
Game speed is slower and more realistic.
Graphics:
Graphics have been completely redone. Lighting is fantastic both during daytime, dusk and night. Kits show the different styles of fabric. Grass is better looking. Stadiums offer far more detail and the crowd now move far more and are extremely vocal.
Sweat can be seen on players as the match progresses. In rain matches kits get wet and dirty.
Easily the best looking PES ever.
Master League:
Now incorporates both the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League fully.
As a result divisions are now country by country and have a better structure. Would not have made sense to have pan-European leagues as its the same as the cups then.
Real currency is now used.
Transfer system has been improved as well as other areas however it was not seen due to the build being only 55% complete.
It is unknown if the UEFA Super Cup is in or not.
Edit Mode:
Not much is known. More slots for new teams, jpeg photos for kits and chant files. Boot editor is back.
Other:
Online has been worked on extensively. Using PES 6 system as its foundation and built upon greatly.
New lobby system.
No Konami ID login.
Better matchmaking, and easier to play with friends.
2v2 is in. Playing with more than 2v2 is highlighted. Possibility for 10v10 perhaps. Will be revealed by Konami later.
PES Shop is back along with classic teams, players and World XI and Europe XI.
Other game modes to be discussed later. BAL and Legends mode has been worked on. Will be show in the near future.
More stadiums than ever before. Anfield is now licensed.
More licensed teams and leagues than before incorporating more South American, Asian and African teams also.
No more sandbags on goals and new goalkeeper gloves.
^^^ Hmmm…. sounds like it could be true…
I don’t know if I could get used to strictly analog control, but if so, then so be it.
PS – @ Simon: It has already been confirmed that there is no new engine for this year.
Dopecoli, u smelt yur own breath yet? Its smellin alot like bull sh!t
Dont be so sinnacle people its obvious a journlist or playtester has leaked this or konami themselves,it does seem to be where pes08-09 was going even i could see that.
All konami have done is gone back to there roots ISS and perfect striker but with todays graphical and animation advances and about time to,ten years i been waiting to have that lovely 360 control from perfect striker3 on the ps2.Imagine now being able to hit lovely 360 degree short passes,shots,long passes,crosses,through balls manually off your left stick this is the stuff of dreams…
We all wanted change and revolution so lets embrace it,you will in time be believers d-pad users i guarantee you dont know what you have been missing all these years with PES 8-axis control.
It makes sense because how else where konami going make the player animation and movement better without switching to 360 degree control.The better they make pes look graphically on the next gen platforms the more flat and rigid player movement and animation becomes on the eye within a 8-axis plain,theres just no way of making it look any better.
Not only that but as someone who loves PES but is frustrated with the 45 and 90 degree passing and shooting angles that are assisted this is good news indeed.
I don’t think there is a single person who disagrees that 360 control is a good thing!
There are surely going to be some people in an uproar if it’s true that D-PAD control is not an option though.
Personally, I know they might want to use the d pad for tactical controls, which makes sense, but you could do so on the analog as well. Also, it doesn’t follow logically for me to say that you need the analog in order to have 360 control. 16 way is not only close, but can interpolate variations in between depending on how long you hold the direction. You wouldn’t have the manual passing of course, but again, I’d say that it would be somewhat unwise of them not to give people the option to use the D-pad just because of manual passing – which we already have and not everyone uses.
I’m willing to give it a chance, but in the spirit of DD’s blog question this week, losing the D Pad for 2010 would be something that would likely disappoint me…
PS – I hope this “leak” is fake, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this rumour is true, mainly because it explains why Konami have yet to reveal whether they have 360 movement or not. Obviously they know some people would be unhappy to hear that, and although I would tend to be one of them, I’m willing to wait to play the game myself before I let them know what I think.
1.-pes 2010 needs to have rumble somehow period.
2.-it needs to feel fluid like the pes5 and pes 6 used to feel in the ps2 period.
3.-online needs to work fine period.
4.-for the last 2 or 3 years somehow you don’t control your players defencibly like we used to in the ps2, konami has paid to much attention in attacking but they forgot the defence we need this fix too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abzNy0N_bbE
The above video confirms the player motion capturing as highlighted by post 15 dopecoil.
@16 Dave O. That’s too bad; however, maybe the 360 degree movement and motion capture will make a big difference to the way the game plays.
@15 dopecoil; everything mentioned in the list of improvements sounds great! As Dave O highlighted it looks like those of us who like using the D-pad will finally have to convert to the analogue sticks.
Personally I would love to see a control pad designed specifically for Pes that has an analogue pad in place of the D-pad. I’ve never been able to get used to using analogue sticks on football games; on every other game I use them, but for footy games it just doesn’t feel right – the only reason I liked FIFA this year is because the finally gave us the option of using the D-pad.
I especially like the part where it says ‘PES Shop is back along with classic teams, players and World XI and Europe XI’. I hope by ‘classic teams’ it means classic club sides as well as international teams.
I think everyone will be glad to see the back of the Konami ID login system. EA have got the online side of FIFA spot on so I hope Konami use something similar. The lobby system in Pes6 was quite good so if they can integrate the Pes6 lobby system with a FIFA style connection arrangement then it will be excellent.
I believe FREEDOM will be the key to Pes2010 success. Pes2009 felt like I’d had a pair of prison moonboots attached to my feet, as in the Nicholas Cage and John Travolta movie Face Off. Hopefully Pes2010 will remove the shackles and allow us to roam free again like the good old days on the PS2.
Thank you DD for mentioning my reply and for correcting my english ! It seems that nobody except you reacted to the very important question of; What we fans should do if PES 2010 turns out to be another failure and yet another dissapointment ? The quality of online game is the absolutly most important issue for me. Now, I´ve been advocating for some time now in this forum and in other PES sites that the fans should abandon PES and boycott the game. A drop in sales and loss of profit is the only way to get to international companies.
I would like you and the rest of the guys running this thing to go out and make an official call for boycott of the the next title, if Seabass fails to improve the online game.
360 degree motion or no 360 degree motion, please, please, please, please, please do not change from D-Pad to Joystick… I will be well and truly up sh*t creak if that happens…
A funny and a bit alarming thing just struck me. The ones benefitting from KONAMIs inaptitude is you guys running this site ! This and similat sites are the only place where angry and dissapointed PES fans come to express thier frustrations and make suggestions. If KONAMI had made better titles in the recent years with flawless online gameplay you would has much less visitors for sure ! I for one would not enter the site a often as I do if I was happy with the game. We can take MGS4 as an example, excellent game by KONAMI runs perfectly online search the forums and you´ll find no complaints and not as many visitors.
I´ve counted 5-6 sponsors of this site, you guys should be happy that PES keeps making people pissed off !
Mike @ 24 – If it goes to 360 degree motion I don’t think that we’ll have a choice but to have to use the joystick as I don’t think that the D-pad is capable of 360 motion as it doens’t have enough points.
to those who use the d-pad .. you better start getting used to the analog now. Sticking to the D-pad is anti productive and the d-pad is some what prehistoric for sports games like using the keyboard(a clue for those who find it difficult adjusting rather than pushing it like a button rather lean it in either direction to find the best results) …@ simon mcdermott the guys at wenb already confirmed even with all the new upgrades it still feels like classic PES… I guess its back to FIFA waiting for PES to come out with something innovative so they can use it in their game..
Have a look at this video of 360 degree movement from perfect striker3 on the ps2.What you have to realise is just how smooth and reponsive 360 degree movement and control is and how much it elevates the gameplay,no more sticky,stiff players and jerky 8-axis animation.If pes was ever going to evolve this was clearly the next step.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-fyd_QRQ4o
Like i stated last week in one of my comments konami produced a great game engine with pes08,but one that is handcuffed and shackled by the restrictions of PES 8-axis movement.Now that the stabilizers are going to be taken off we will have a much more fluid,free and responsive game.
I know this will come as a shock for some who have not experienced this level of control and freedom but im sure in time you will convinced of its merits as we will have a much better game.
Pes is too plasitc.
pes 2010 will have 8directions not 360o
Milan, you dont know that for certain so just keep quiet.
@simon mcdermott-22
The reason the left analog stick has never felt right with PES is because you have a game that because it moves in a 8-axis plain is made to be played with the d-pad that is why manual passing has always been mapped to the right thumbstick.
Contary to what a lot of people beleive the 8-axis movement of pes thus far is not what gives its unique gameplay its that it thrives on the principles that traditional game design strives to eliminate-unpredictability,clumsiness,,inconsistency,and the feeling,however irrational,that the game is unfolding to a dramatic,deified,and unavoidable outcome irrespective of the frenzied actions of its protagonists.It is,at its most scripted,a terrible videogame-and,as such,an almost perfect simulation of football.
@ dopecoil… Perfect striker’s 360 control was very limited and consistently buggy… the game that managed to use 360 control successfully from the previous gen was Football Kingdom by Namco and wasn’t released world wide heres a quick clip of the game from youtube you can find more highlights in the related column.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eriJZ__2j44&feature=related .. you are succeeding in posting increasingly boring blogs repeatedly as others have done so before you (Simon Mcdermott and Amatuer come to mind yet I must commend the former for restraining himself).
@Do not buy ****ty games-23
I disagree with your comments relating to a sales boycoot as it sounds a bit short sighted.
I think what you fail to realise is how big and complex a task it is take a winning formula from a last gen console(ps2)that had limited memory and specs and map this over to a higher spec new format within 1 or 2 years.Even pes6 on the xbox360 was just a hd version of the ps2 game but with less refinement.
It took konami a least four versions of pes on the ps2 to get it right as i remember the earlier pes games on the ps2 felt very wooden and stiff and where plagued with small bugs.
Theres a lot of good in pes09 from a coding point of view and technically its very sophisticated stuff which to the untrained eye is hardly noticable.
You only have to read the information in @comment 15 to realise konami had plans to implement a whole load of stuff to pes2009 but did not have the time or numbers in there developement team.Try showing a little patience and open your mind to how long it actually takes to make a game on a next gen console or how much time it takes to get it right.After all rome was not built in a day!!!!!!!!!
@Do not buy ****ty games-23
Konami have stated they have got the online element right as well as more fluid seamless animation and i dont doubt for a minute that we will have 360 degree control and movement because for me this is the missing element that pes,especially on the pc,xbox360 and ps3 has lacked.
You only have to play pes09 to realise that the engine and code is made for a true 360 plain of movement and control because it uses the same ai and game principles of ISS or perfect striker although in a more automated form.
One on one shooting,incisive run,zonal defending is nothing new nore is 360 degree manual passing or 360 degree player control this stuff was being done back in the mid to late nineties on the n64 and then ps2 as well as the ai we see in pes2009,its just taken 10 years for the technology to catch up and for konami to realise a lot of this stuff worked perfectly in the past and would work perfectly now.
I for one will be buying pes2010 regardless because konami is a company with heritage and there really is no other alternative i just feel dirty playing fifa.
@ dopecoil – 34
Indeed Rome was not built in a day and PES have had the chance to improve online gaming for 3 years now ! How much patients do you expect us to have ? I dont buy that B.S. that changing platforms delays development just look at COD, MGS4, Every EA sports title work fluently. I have the firm conviction that the PES developers just have been plain lazy, They´ve taken the fans for granted ! That cannot be rewarded year after year. So after years of frustration I say wait and see the preview/reviews/Demos if it turns out to be no improvements I SAY DONT BUY IT ! That is not shortsighted, on the other hand just running off and buying the next PES than spending the next 12 months complaining and gritting your teeth everything you go online is just plain naive and stupid !
Hell I would happily buy PES 2010 if it was PES 2009 with flawless online gaming.
You and DD and all the others guys defending a faulty title and giving KONAMI a new chance, a new opportunity every year need to stop !
@mushi mush-33
Compared to what pes 8-axis movement,you dont know what your talking about perfect striker 3 on the ps2 is smooth and ultra responsive its like comparing super mario on the snes to super mario 64 on the n64 with its true analog control.
Ive been playing pes for 10 years as well as perfect striker so understand the huge golf between the two and how one is more like real football to play then the other.
Obviosly there are things pes does better but not total freedom of control.As for amatuer and simon mcdermott these guys actually talk sense and want innovation unlike most so called die-hard pes fan who just want there ps2 comfort blanket.
dont buy ****ty games
Fifa is far from perfect and is not half as good as most people state it is.
Did Perfect Striker and/or Football Kingdom actually have 360 degrees of animation, or just 16, 32, or 64?
Anyway, I think that what we will see with Fifa 10 and possibly PES 2010 will be a big step beyond what I see in those two videos, if not only due to the higher amount of animations and moves.
Dopecoil
I have´nt even mentioned FIFA. I´m only talking about the online aspect of PES. Screw FIFA.
By the way, about your comments on post 15, How the hell can you have so much info if you are not DD, which i believe you are ! Then you are the inside man in KONAMI and have been called the whore of KONAMI by yours truely ! I dont get it, how the hell do you have the time and personel to motion capture the bloody ball and net and make FANTASTIC stadiums, while the online aspect of the game is so faulty ! Stop marketing the new tile and defending KONAMI ! This site was for the fans not for KONAMIs direct marketing !
@dont buy ****ty games-36
Im certainly not defending konami as i still prefer as do alot of my mates the ISS and perfect striker games,we only play pes because what else is there with more upto date players and stats but its still the next best thing feeling like a shell of what a football game was once like to play.
I dont expect you or anyone else to understand as i come from a different generation of gaming prefering something Like the orange box,count strike rather then the immediate thrill of COD with its triggered setpeices and mass appeal online modes.
One thing you must take into account though is a FPS or third person prospective game is lot easier to make and get to work online then a sports title.
As for fifa,rag doll players,planet no gravity physics and floatie ball,i could go on and on……..
@dave o-39
perfect striker3 on the ps2 had 360 degree movement,your right though dave obviosly pes2010 will be a massive step up interms of animation.
what i think your failing to realise is with pes2010 we will now have better player control in both attack and defence,so although shooting and running at goal will be more free and accurate it will actually be harder to score because defensive control will be greater ie not so easy to wrong foot and skin defenders.Therefore the game will be balanced in a true way,no more wayward shots contrived by the code or cpu but increased difficulty in beating the keeping or getting that extra yard on a fullback,centreback or midfielder.
This will mean a greater enthisis will be given to more accurate manual through balls and long passing as well as creating space via passing and movement and using angles as player movement off the ball will be better with much hungrier attacking forwards with more support from the midfield.
Crossing will be greatly improved because players will attack the box more and because the manual long pass will be mapped to the long pass button and left thumstick we will have a far greater range of crossing angles from the wings that we can direct better to are man without having to use the l1+circle buttons or be parallel to the box.
Also because we will now be able to control the amount of pressing are team does on the fly via the d-pad we can now tailor the way we like to play within the game ie if you are someone who likes to sit in the passing channels cutting off the oposition supply,you can then turn the pressure level right down,then your teamates will not be drawn to the ball loosing your teams shape,and vice versa.
Hmmm…. Just thinking more and more about this new info about 360 movement and the death of the D pad – which still may be false – but I’m starting to think it could be a good think, so long as it’s implemented well.
One thing I want to say is that I have tried to convert myself to the analog stick for many moons, but I keep coming back to the d pad because, well, I’m at least 30% better at the game on it than I am with Analog. For example, pulling off moves like the drag back or other moves where a double tap of a direction is required is so much easier and more responsive on the d pad, but… What I’m thinking is that part of the reason for that is that the game was really built for playing on the d pad, and if that changes, then it could mean the analog stick is much better to use. I still hope we have a choice, but I’ll have to wait and see I guess.
One last thing – Let’s not forget that we could be getting excited about a false rumour. One thing which I think suggests it might be true though is the twitter comment by, I think it was PSM3, where they said they’ve “played the game and are curious to hear what people think…” To me that comment would make a lot of sense if Konami has done something so radically different and potentially alienating to some fans. That comment could also mean just about anything though. Either way, I’ll reserve any further judgement until the rumour is confirmed, and then finally until I’ve played the game for myself.
@ dave your points about the d pad are your opinion I’ve been playing with the sticks since pes 4 and for me its fantastic I can perform all the moves effortlessly granted it took me a while but now I feel theres no turning back you might as well use the keyboard if you’re stuck on the d-pad ..
true the d pad is more primitive and is one of the many reasons why the title has failed to go forward..
Testers at WENB have confirmed that PES 2010 not allowing one to use the D-pad is merely a rumor there are quite a few of those in both camps at the moment
I purchased “perfect striker” and “football kingdom” when I was teaching in Japan. I still have the games. If anyone here has played these “jewels” of football, then you like myself know, PES is in the “dark ages”. I didn’t mind the Japanese commentating either. Good thing it’s NTSC and Japanese games work in North America. They were truly games ahead of their time.
Any head to head competition between perfect striker, football kingdom and pes would see perfect striker and football kingdom winning out. The play is truly 360 degree motion with total fluidity. An absolute gem that deserves to be put up there with the best football games of all time. A true master piece. Maybe something pes2010 developers should be looking at. Paying some respect to games that beat todays next gen fiasco’s, oops I mean embaresments.
Cheer,
Robbie
@33 mushi mush
I never played Football Kingdom, but I have to say the passing/movement looks amazing. The passing angles, positioning of the players and shooting all look very similar to Pes – only better.
It’s a shame the game wasn’t released worldwide as it would have given Konami a much needed kick up the backside. It also may have resulted in Football Kingdom and Pes becoming the two titles battling it out for supremacy, thus condemning FIFA to 3rd place.
I think if another serious contender had entered the race for best footy game FIFA may well have died out as its game-play, until recently, was seriously flawed. The only saving grace that FIFA has had – and in my opinion the only reason it has survived until now- is that it has always had the official licensing (apart from FIFA 1 back in the early 90’s).
It’s a shame really, because if games like Pes and SWOS had had the official FIFA license, I believe that they would have done a lot more with it than EA have.
It has taken EA over 15 years to produce a game that actually has alright game-play, which is pretty poor for a company that believes it is creating ‘electronic arts’.
I personally think that EA are a company that ruin almost every sporting genre that they enter by buying up the official licensing and then producing a substandard game; while also employing the use of insidious tactics to make sure that other sports titles are reduced to using fantasy player names and teams – thus detracting from their realism.
If EA had spent their time ensuring that they actually made a good game to improve their sales, rather than spending their time and resources making sure that other companies games failed by blocking their chance of acquiring licenses, then we would all be happily playing FIFA instead of praying that Konami can come up with the winning formula again.
In my eyes EA are a disease and the sooner they are eradicated the better.
@robbie-48
Thankyou someone on my wave length that understands how good the perfect striker series was compared to PES.
The only sad thing is perfect striker 4 and 5 where rubbish so was jikkyou world soccer 2002 on the gamecube and ps2.
Watch this board as i will soon be putting a you tube link to see perfect strikers tricks and 360 degree movement in action.
If they could make pes2010 with perfect strikers fluidity and 360 degree movement and seamless 360 degree manual passing,shooting off the left thumbstick like perfect striker3 on the ps2,married with PES short pass and graphics
pes fans minds would be truly blown.It would be like having the ultimate simulation of the real game that is a joy to control and play as the level of creativety that game gave you has never been bettered,everything just worked………
Just made a great video 4 minutes long showing the sublime 360 degree movement of perfect striker3 plus the tricks,one two system which you could delay and free kicks.Will post the link once uploaded…..Your not going to believe your eyes!!!!!!!!!!
@ simon I agree with you completely
Have alook at this video trying to upload a bigger one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgIEvA75TUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx-LnndLeTs
From perfect striker 2. A game ahead of its time. A real genius. This team of developers should be hired immediately.
Yokohama FC Marinos versus Kashima Antlers. They should put the J-League in to the European and North American version. By far one of the best leagues in the world.
Cheers,
Robbie
@55-robbie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNDshwGjI5c
Get yourself a copy of this perfect striker3 on the ps2 it uses the same control interface as perfect striker 2 but has much better graphics and animation being just a graphically enhanced version of the n64 and ps1 code but with much better opposition ai and the ball as more of a free entity.
It was the fluidity and level of player control and playmaking plus tricks that made these titles such a joy to play although they look a bit crude now especially the n64 and ps1 versions.Perfect striker 3 holds up much better as it actually has better animation then pes2009.
I still think this is what seabass and his team are aiming for with pes2010,pes2009 is very close to this series it just lacks the fluidity,tricks,level of control,incisive runnning and the seamless 360 degree movement.
a lot of the developement team who made the perfect striker series still work at konami and on the PES developement team,i think the producer of pes2008-09 on the wii is the man behind this landmark series.
What you have to realise is with the perfect striker games everything was motion captured,the players,ball,goal nets,this is why the announced new motion capturing seems to be a return to a much needed older in-house philosphy.
I think even konami have realised that they had a great formula back in the day and with todays technology can now fully implement and realise this vision thats why i feel pes2010 will exceed expectations.
@49 simon mcdermott
Great comment i think you pretty much hit the nail on the head in regard to fifa and ea.The only thing is when konami started making the PES/WINNING ELEVEN series they actually moved away from a more simulated,fluid game of football to a game and engine that was more like the fifa games ie the ball as a free entity and a more dribbling focused game that simplified and automated pretty much everything else as the enthasis was now on controlling the ball not the player.
Pes is to focused on ball control not player control as is fifa and this for me is why football games are worse now then they have ever been and stuck in a rut.Because we are spending too much time trying to control the ball rather then this being as automatic and seamless as it would be for a real pro the ability to playmake and have full manual directional control has been taken away,this is why football games now have to be heavily scripted and contrived because they lack the correct balance.
Hi Dougie,
For me Little tweaks here and there are not good enough, Like you say the online mode more fluent ect but to be honest that sort of stuff should have been adressed in PES 2008 the fact that it hasnt makes me wonder how much ground has been lost because of this.
Take for example EA they have 10v10 and have adidas live season and other online features …so far Konami cant get a online game to run without lag they said this would be fixed for 2009 but we seen more of the same. So i cant really be too confident when they say they will fix it for this year.
The progress of the franchise has been nothing short of very very poor, all the little things they are coming out with to improve the game should have been 2 years ago and with this fifa are flying ahead with more and more appealinggameplay feautures like 360 movement and no doubt more online modes.
Im just no too confident in Konami
Hopefully pes10 will be the less arcade like and more of a simulation type gameplay. Maybe konami could also take a few pages off mlb powerpros (ex. unique skill system) to make more individual players instead of just clones. ML could also be more like a manager mode with a better calendar and trading season, not just a few weeks of trading…
dave o
Dont rule out the d-pad going all psm3 magazine tryed is pes2009 with a few tweaks and pes2010 graphics the animation changes havent been applied yet.
I still think its going to be analog only with the tratergy system mapped to the d-pad and manual passing mapped to the left thumbstick and x,o,triangle buttons its the natural evolution pes has been going on the last two years.
Dopecoil – I hear what you are saying (you have said it 21 times in this blog).
One other option is to use the new 8 way XBOX 360 controller and the PS3 controller and have them interpolate the 8 way into 16 way movement, the same way that 4 way was interpolated into 16 way. This wouldn’t likely be good enough for manual passing, but it would add a whole new dimension to dribbling and shooting. Shooting from left to right you could place it closer to the keeper on one side, at a 45 degree angle, closer to the post, or extremely close to the post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ17Am0px7E
Have a look at this,its a video i filmed it has the chest trap which will appear in pes2010 as well as the juggling.
When you made a cross or long pass you could trap the ball by pressing the long pass button when contact was made with the ball then make a instant strike or just chose drop to your feet as i do in the video.
dave 0
Sorry dave i know i rattle on a bit,but i just want you guys who love pes like i do to experience how good a football game can be and how good pes2010 could be.
Its got to be 32-axis movement on a 360 degree plain for me though dave its what pes2009 lacks.
Once you have had the level of control and movement everything else just feels one dimensional.
The only way i can describe how good 360 degree movement in a football game is its like having 11 marios from mario64 on the pitch with that pixel perfect analog control which is ultra sensitive and responsive.
dave 0
You can make a stripped down arcadie rendition of a complex tatical sport,make the dribbling good,make the gameplay fast and addictive with limited player movement and broken passing because it works for so long hidden behind the window dressing,then you try to map this onto a more powerful machine but the cracks appear because youve created walls that you cant remove and confines for the user when they really want more.
More because the gameplay becomes samey and the scripted,contrived matches become tedious and repetitive as well as the clunky heavy player movement thats not really responsive.You also tire of the limited trick options and the automatic one-twos as well as the assited tired short passing,long passing and shooting thats just on rails and realise i just want more……….more because youve had it before and this whole journey you have had with the pes series for 10 years is a wasted one because the games never ever really improved its the same as it always was.
Yeah, dude, you said that before. That’s 24 posts now!!! We get it!
Dopecoil
Finally someone who talks sense konami need to hire you!!!!!!!!!!
Dopecoil Nails it !
The 360 and PS3 can produce so much more than the mince Konami are churning out year after year.
The previews so far on PES2010 are more of the same drivell they have sold us the pat 2 years, Online will be fixed , improved graphics (i didnt notice much improvement in 09) improved AI ( again in 09 it seemed to take a step backwards).
So why oh why do so many people tell u to just wait and the game will deliver? do you all forget the past games? do you not remember all the promises we were given prior to them being released?
Seabass stated they were going to imply a whole new engine for 2010 before the release of 09 and from what i hear this is another lie!
Konami wonder why they are now so far behind fifa in fanbase and sales, if they put as much effort into PES as they did with games such as MGS4 then they wouldnt have this problem.
Make no mistake if they produce the same old PS2 looking crap they have done the past 2 years then fifa wont be caught, their already miles ahead in every aspect.
And im not saying all of this because i love fifa….i really dont.
I hated fifa till the 09 version and maybe road to world cup 98.
It was cartoony it was arcade like and it was not at all true to the game of football (scoring from the same moves over and over)
PES was an addiction to most of us posting on here…we lived for the next versions.
The reason we all (well the vast majority) post negative comments is because we love this franchise and to see it being wasted each year hurts!
If Konami need more time (they really have no right to) then i for one would rather they skip a year and really give the game a revamp…everything getting the upgrade it deserves.
Last year one of the few pros was the implementation of the become a legend mode. however i do few improvement on player management can be further improved by allowing the salary earned by your created player to have value such as buying accessories like shoes, head gears changing hair do like beckham spendin a lotta money on his fashion aspect, also having a club cash value so clubs like sunderland don’t come competing with u for purchase if ur a high profile player wen the likes of liverpool, manchester united, chelsea or madrid are vying for signature. as well as development points being available based on how good the club u play for is, for example torres developing better at liverpool than at athletico madrid so if athletico has 10 available points in their deveopment system, liverpool could have 17pts and so on. just a suggestion i believe could hype the gameplay of become a legend. hopefully if the idea is well received, someone in higher places could present it for future installments.
at 71 gd idea
I think that all Seabass and his merry men have to do is go back to PES 6 and revamp that game. I was playing it over the weekend and I can’t believe how backwards the PES series has gone over the last two years! Everything from the dribbling, keepers, refs and shooting is so much better than in the last two Pro Evo’s. It’s amazing how they have taken a great game and turned it into the poor versions we have all had to suffer these last two years. If they can add the few plus points from PES 08 & 09 i.e. Champions League rights and more official clubs and slight play around with the PES 2006 engine i.e. players making better runs off the ball & better long-range shooting then Seabass and more importantly us will have our great game back! Sometimes you don’t have to reinvent the wheel………..
@70-RFC-CHAMPS-09
Thanks for the support i appreciate it!
The majority agree but a small minority fear change and want to stick to there d-pad,assisted passing and flat 8-axis movement.
Manual passing is nothing to fear you simply push the thumbstick in the direction you want,add the pace you want and the ball travels in that direction its as simple as that,good ai will mean off the ball players will move to recieve.This process certainly in my experience with perfect striker and iss is something that enhances the experience does not make it difficult and wild or takes anything away.
360 degree movement is the same its just means movement is precise and responsive and passing and shooting angles are increased as is your feild of movement.
When pes2010 is released i want something that floods my senses again and opens my eyes to years of new possibilities……..
the animation will be the element that makes or breaks pes2010 because to implement 360 movement and manual passing and shooting you have to overhaul the animation system,as currently pes2009 animation system for movement,shooting and passing is in 8-axis.
The engine as some state doesnt need rebuilding,the physics and graphics are fine,animation is key to revolutionising pes2010.
If they get it right which they have done before pes2010 will feel like we have jum