IWP: The Second Phase – Saturday 14th November 2009
Posted by Dan Bolas in PES 2010 News on Sat 14 Nov
Welcome to the Second Phase. Basically, with PES being slightly void of posts at the moment, I thought I would produce a second column that focuses solely on one issue. This will not be a regular occurrence, and the Second Phase will appear occasionally and when I feel it is required. Interfering With Play will still be available for your reading pleasure every Tuesday. Following some of the discussions on the forum and comments, along with the numerous e-mails I have been sent, I thought it would be important to address the issue of online play.
To start off, I have been playing PES online since Pro Evolution Soccer 4. The PC version of the game was arguably the most successful online offering to do date, with minimal to no lag present, and solid, decent connections. It lacked any kind of lobby system, and as a result separate software was required to arrange matches, but upon actually playing the game, the action shone through. PES 5 was also very enjoyable online, again on the PC, before PES 6 started to show some of the lag issues that have plagued the game ever since. I refused to play PES 2008 and 2009 on my PS3, for the simple reason that in my experiences, the game was borderline unplayable.
That brings me to the current state we are in, namely PES 2010. I was very optimistic about the experience during the pre-release phase, the news of no Konami ID system brought a new level of hope, and the beta testers all reported positive things. In fact, I lost my first game online 2-1, but I was beaten fair and square, and not because of any slow down or button delay, something which I can stomach. Since then, I have played around 30 games, winning just under half and registering 8 losses. Of those eight losses, I would say I was beaten by a better player four times. Here in lies the problem with PES online.
No one likes to lose at video games, and PES fans are as passionate as anyone in this. Unlike games such as Modern Warfare 2, where there are 8 gamers all after the victory, the 1 v 1 aspect of PES makes it a real winner and loser affair, and with most PES gamers being able to beat the computer teams on a regular basis, defeat isn’t something people like to experience. However, losing by means out of your control is what really brings the frustration. And PES has this in spades. As I mentioned before, of the eight games I have lost, I would give four opponents their dues. They out played me and whether or not it was simply with Barcelona or Real Madrid, they earned their victory. Two of my defeats where down to me disconnecting, simply because my players weren’t responding to the controls. This is down to the dreaded button lag, and meant my players were moving three to four seconds after the command was pressed. In my opinion, if a match is suffering from button lag, you are more than entitled to quit, because the 3-0 defeat looks a lot better than the 8-10 nil defeat you will end up experiencing if you stay and play. The other two matches I would claim my game lagged at crucial points, simply not registering my commands or freezing entirely. The majority of that match was still playable, but it was normally down to losing by the odd goal, at a moment when I had possession of the ball.
For these bad games, I have had a number of very enjoyable games online, most of which I hope showed me as the better player as opposed to my opponent suffering from the above mentioned problems. The question regarding online play is simply, why is it so inconsistent? If you are a gamer that has problems every game, the chances are that is down to your own connection, but if you don’t have problems with other games, then why should you with PES? Is there any point at all in the Red, Amber and Green lights? As mentioned, in the 30 games I have played I have had 30 games of orange lights, whilst my opponents have been orange (in a good game) or red (usually the games that suffer from button lag). Yet all my other online games simply play fine, without the need for traffic lights.
First and foremost, PES 2010 is a below average online gaming experience, however, games that don’t suffer from any lag just offer enough incentive to make me keep on playing one more match. So here is the plan, over the next few weeks, I am looking to sort out some sort of community page for PESGaming.com where you can post you PSN ID or Konami ID and meet other gamers. It will also give you the opportunity to rate other gamers on issues such as connections and button lag, if any. Hopefully, this will allow for more matches between gamers who play with decent internet connections, and blacklist gamers than constantly cause the game to lag! So help out, if you are a regular poster on this site, let me know in the comments section your online experience so far (rated out of 5) and which console you are playing on.
Thanks for Reading
Never thought I’d join the crowd of immature kids, but…..
FIRSTTTTTTTTT!
Sometimes you gotta be a kid again just for the fun of it! You’ll live longer :)
2nd :D
oooooh, so close, 2nd will do
aaarrrggghhh, 3rd then
anyway, pes 2010 is ace.
Dan i have played 87 games.One of them was button lag and 5 of them i had the experience slowing down the speed (lag).The opponents players were running faster than mine in these 5 games but i managed to win in 2 of these games.(Very lucky).My connection is 24mbps but my router is locked at 12,5 mbps and my upload is 1 mbps.I am from greece and the most games i had with opponents from spain or portugal were bad(button lag with portugal and the lag from spain)I dont know what conection do they have there so if anyone would like to inform us please do.Most of the games the opponents colour is red but i had no lag experience and i enjoyed the games.I hope that the delay of the update is for good purpose and i prefer to wait 2 more weeks and then the online game will be perfect instead to download an other update just to update the rosters of the teams.
By the way your article was great
Sorry for my bad english
1 out of 5
xbox,
unplayable for me, it does not resemble the offline game in the slightest. i run a speedtest and i have an average of 4 mbps download speed, when you connect the coloured dots are always green and as soon the action starts my opponents dot goes to red.
the teleporting from the previous years games have gone but this button lag thing is making the game completely unplayable.
p1ssed off :(
Dan lag its because PES you play with 1 player.For example in
COD MW2 if there are 20 people online in a Deathmatch and
one or two have bad connections with big pings it wont
bother you.
With all that gunfire you wont notice if someone you shoot didnt ”died” or ”killed” you because he had
”advantage lag”.
But I’m guaranteeing if you play 1 vs.1 in Cod4 or any other fps and the other player has bad lag it will be the same annoying thing like PES10.
The games that i had the worst lag came from players from
Middle East like Qatar,Saudi Arabia and countries out of
Europe like Australia USA.I made a google search and i found that
countries like Qatar,S Arabia have crazy pings like 500ms 2000ms!!!
Olso the reason perhaps why US/aus gamers got the Pal version is becouse they cant find many us/aust players online with us/aust pes 10 version.
Despite this bad connections in South east or other places I TOTTALY disagree with YOUR blacklist suggestion.
All pleople who paid for this game have the same love for it and the right to play some games online.Maybe is the only way for them to play with another person the game.
Olso one question for you Dan.
Did you play Quick match setting or lobby match?
Quick match is like roulette (it could be the best or worst game).
Ok,you had 1,2 bad lag games like we all did whats the big deal?
Iam from Greece to and sorry too for my bad english.
billy what you said makes a lot of sense, also dan 4 games out of 30 is not too bad, i recommend you keep playing online. and play with green and yellow dots opponents only
4 bad out of 30 you lucky bugger….fight night r4 is a 1v1 game i’ve never had any lag playing that and been playing dudes from the U.S of A and all over europe.the only way i can get a fair crack at the whip on pes is to play at about 1am untill the v.early hours
How come every time just before you start the match an opponent who had a green dot suddenly has a red dot?!
2 out of 5
I would say I have this button lag every 3-5 games and when this happens the game is basically unplayable. I won’t lie my connection speed isnt the best but how come when I play Fifa10 the games hardly have any lag. Please do something Konami!
but fifa 08 sucks before lol
I also have problems playing online, 3 out of 5 games are unplayable with button lag and slow response times, my connection speed is excellent and i connect to another player with a green light, then both start to flicker and change between orange and red, then the game becomes unplayable, i have no problems with ANY other online game, just pes 2010, so i have stopped playing online until it is patched by the supposedly great minds at Konami, so now i just play against the computer, i absolutely love the game, took a while to really get to grips with the changes but now i’m getting the best out of the game, and above all i’m having lots of fun while playing, and surely that is what video games are all about aren’t they, fun. as long as you can put up with the slightly eratic nature of the goalkeepers and referees that would make Sir Alex Fergusons head explode then there is not much else to complain about, people will disagree with me i know, asking for this, asking for that, basically asking for perfection, is it possible, i dont think so, it’s the best pes yet apart from the online fiasco, so stop complaining and make the most of what you have, it’s pes or fifa, the only 2 choices available so pick your side and have fun, but stop bloody whinging.
I’m not a big online player, but, Dan, you seem to have skirted over this issue again. You almost appear to be pointing the finger at the gamers? Why?
Blacklisting gamers! You should be asking Konami some hard questions about what the hell is going on with online, not, getting up some kind of online council committee so you can point the finger of blame at gamers for Konami’s shortcomings!
Poor!
I totally agree with post 15.
4.5 out of 5
Xbox 360, wired connection, 10mb.
Location would appear to be the most important factor for me. I live in Malta, which is pretty close to Italy, and i usually do quick match searching for italian opponents and the games are pretty much flawless. Had maybe 1 or 2 sluggish but not unplayable games in 100+ ranked matched.
Have experienced button lag in a few games with people from further afield, usually 2v2 when the hoster has a red light, but overall i would rate my online experience as pretty darn good.
I totally agree with a place to blacklist other players online. I’ve mentioned doing this a few times and been told that it’s not allowed, etc, etc. So I’m finally glad we will now be able to do it. I want to finally name and shame these useless idiots who ruin the game with their piss poor connections.
I also want to name and shame the pathetic Barcafags and clueless kids who just run, cut back and score into the empty net.
It’s also funny how the people who were constantly Barca and Man U last season are now Real Madrid and Man City. Totally pathetic.
in all fairness to the fanboys out there,which i totally hate myself,but if the game wasnt built this way ,to be totally predictable that would allow those idiots to just run down the touchline unapposed like in all these installments,then they would have to think differently about their gameplay,but the game allows u to do that ,its pathetic.Konami have lost sight of what the people want,despite opening their doors to suggestion.Instead they have come up with something even worse than lat year,and last yer was terrible .How they are managing to go backwards with the online in every new installment is beyond me.Just pull the plug on this game,dont make any more as they are incapable of making the transition to next gen.Its 3 years now ,and every one is a failure,so just leave what u cannot achieve ,instead of conning the public
Sorry i dont think blacklisting is a good idea. online is awful, 2 out of 5. My connection is running at 3 mb and has been running at this speed for 3 years, even though i should have 8 meg. Regarding the comment by a blogger that it lags cos its a 1 on 1 game, that is nonsense, i play nhl10 all the time no lag whatsoever. The buck stops with Konami and there excellent servers. There is some maintenance on the servers on the 17th, whether this will change things i doubt it. I cant see the patch having any effect on the online issues either. Also i have found that if you do change the quick match settings to english only you still end up playing someone halfway cross the globe. Nonsense!
i rate 1 of 5 , xbox and pc , if you play against people from the same country the game it’s more playable but not good , play other people it’s nearly impossible button lag an little freeze slow down .
with pes 6 ( xbox ) and fifa no problem at all .
i have 7Mb download 512downalod no problem with other games , only with pes 2008 , 2009 , 2010.
PLEASE KONAMI FIX THIS YEAR NOT TRY TO IMPROVE NEXT YEAR
I have played already over 75 games online. I only had one unplayable game, and the opponent just disconncted because he figured that he has crappy connections.
Button lag happens some times, but all in all, I enjoy the game. Lag is part of any game online, and there is no gurantee that offilne will match online.
Many big games sometimes shows lag with some players. One example is the high profile KillZone 2 where some times you shoot some one and he doesnt die and then he disappears of the screen.
To sum it up, there is no perfect game online. The current changes to PES 2010 made it playable, unlike previous versions. I really love the game, online and offline.
Dan: Maybe unintended, but I think you used the wrong choice of words when saying “blacklist gamers than constantly cause the game to lag”.
As this almost implies it is the GAMERS mistake, while a bunch of nitwits in an office in Tokyo should be hit on the head with a rather large and heavy object.
It is NOT the gamers mistake, as ask gamers that have lag with PES how many times they have lack in say MW2? The answer will show it is Konami’s fault ONCE again!
Very funny, if you make a HUGE failure like this that affects incoming sales in say, a bank or oil company, you’d be fired a long time ago already, still Seabass keeps sitting on his crown.
It is a DISGRACE, an UTTER, UTTER disgrace, I really can not see how ANYONE could take this guy seriously anymore, he is a laughing stock….
I find the whole online experience quite disappointing again this year as I suffer from button lag constantly. I think maybe 50-60% of the games are affected.
I am from Austria and on a PS3 wired connection with 24Mbit DL and 3 Mbit UL (speedtest.net result on my PS3 browser) and a “AAA” Konami-check.
Yesterday I set my PS3 to a DMZ (basically opening up all your PS3 ports if you’re behind a router – I had no idea what that meant but after reading on the forum about it, I thought I’d give it a try) and I think that there was some improvement. I got less lag but now some games ended midway “due to unforseen circumstances”… WTF?
So maybe this can help but I don’t think it’s our job to tweak our consoles to get it working properly, especially when all other games are working fine – I agree with MagicRoma (and D. Drogba): it’s a f’n disgrace
Everything about the next gen PES titles stinks of Konami laziness, from gameplay that hasnt moved on very much (if at all)up to the online being a complete joke! I cant help but think that any praise aimed at these money grabbing jokers is only encouraging them to churm out more rubbish in the future. FIFA and other online titles have managed to give us a great online experience so why not Konami and PES? Judging by this years PES on PS2, it looks like Konami are only interested in keeping this game on track and this i feel is because its less work for them.
This getting ridiculous. So now the finger of blame shifts from the Konami to the gamers connection. I play plenty of one on games, eg nhl 10 etc. with gamers all across the globe, never do i get button lag or any other lag for that matter. my connection is not the best about 3 meg for a 8 meg package. However i am stressing this again and again, it is only pes that is giving me this lag issue. MW2, Killzone 2 etc no problems
Even if you change the filter to english only, as i am from the uk, i will still end up with a gamer in UAE for example and the lag issue starts again.
Sorry but the buck stops with Konami and their excellent servers. There is some sort of server maintenance which is due tomorrow, whether this will make any difference i honestly dont know. To create a blacklist and point the finger of blame towards gamers is a bloody disgrace!!
I play online alot – infact I normalyl only play master lauge where as this year I havent even started master leauge because I only play online with PES Rankings and PES Unleashed….I think having a place where the peeople with crap connnection can be listed is great! I have played around 25 games and only against 2 people who I have played a couple of times each has the game been absoloutely sh** due to their connections! I have made a mental note and try and avoid these 2 however it is hard in competitions…..V.V.V Annoying and if I had my way Id ban them…..of at least ban them from certain comps.
I don’t think Dan is entirely meaning to point the finger at gamers. Hoenstly, though, a person’s connection does play a factor. It is dillusional to think that a game should be expected to play perfectly on any connection and between any two connections. It’s really more a combination of factors. I’ll admit that PES online isn’t as solid of an experience as it should be, and some of that blame falls on Konami’s shoulders, but some of it also is due to connections.
That being said, my question is whether the person with a poor connection experiences lag themselves or not? In other words, I personally am not finding there to be lag, so does that mean that I have a poor connection, or is it not even a matter of good connections versus bad ones, but maybe having more to do with location and/or connections which are somehow incompatible?
Anyone with any experience with online servers and netwroks have any ideas on what the actual problem is?
PS – I agree that even games like COD do have lag in them, as I’ve experienced this myself on occassion (shooting someone who doesn’t get hit for example, or getting shot by someone in a way which is impossible, i.e. teleporting).
PPS – PES 2010 is continuing to get better and better for me every day. I have switched to 15 minute matches now, which means more goals for me, more challenge from the AI because they will more likely score, and less 0-0 draws in my ML (2nd season still not a strong squad).
Had some really brilliant matches playing this way, and highly recommend people try it if they are finding the game too low scoring or too easy in ML.
“Anyone with any experience with online servers and netwroks have any ideas on what the actual problem is?”
Obviously not Seabass!
well i had a game yesterday from someone in finland, and before the match started he text me to say i had bad connection. Yet on my screen i was yellow he was red. the game kicked off and surprisingly no lag. during halftime i text him to say that my connection was yellow and his red, he came back and said that i had good connection.
i havent got a clue what the hell is going on? cos matches i have lagged in my connection was on yellow and theres on red, but i have heard that on their screen it is the opposite…baffling
can i just ask is anyone experiencing lag whilst playing on a fibre optic broadband connection, rather than the standard connection??
@torrent
I have a fiber optic broadband connection and I’ve had a lot of lag problems during games. Not so much the first days but the last weeks it’s got worse.
here’s the thing… my pes2010 wa sunplayable online as i ALWAYS got button lag. this was as annoying for me as for my opponent. but, why the hell should pes experience so much lag? it doesnt have amazing in-depth graphics with hundreds of characters on the screen, its just bloody 22 players running around with only a handful of moves each. i’m telling you guys, this problem is NOT due to anyones internet connection (in most cases, unless you’re still on dial-up!!). Its a server/software/development problem. If i can play World of Warcraft online with no problem (for thise who dont know, its a pretty in-depth game!) then pes should be a walk in the park.
And post15 is right… This website has the ability to put some sort of pressure on konami, but to forego that and have a swipe at ‘poor connections’ or gamers is lame. you dont have to bend over cos konami say so.
In fairness, I don’t believe anyone is delusional or expects perfect.
It remains, the online issue appears to be wide spread. I am not buying the ‘poor’ connection argument, I’ve heard it all before. Yes some people have crap connections, however, the most likely scenario is poor execution.
What are Konami saying about these issues?
Is anyone, in a position to, going to ask them?
It is a shame how a site that had, in the past, been upfront, suddenly find itself turning the other cheek and towing the party line.
i simply hate this game at the moment. they messed up my vertical cam, and what is the deal with the stock formations online that only load the formation type and position edits, without loading lineups, strategies, etc.? in the few online games i could stand playing, i played against only barca, inter, and real madrid (nothing unusual from previous years). all of them had some kind of lag. a few had the stupid button lag thing that i was not at all expecting. that stuff is worse than the skating issues of the past.
yes, we should ask why this is happening. being in the states, i expect to get a lot of tampering from macho punks who simply must win to overcompensate for their diminutive physical stature. but not all my opponents can possibly be scum. and can konami really be to blame for the nearly 4th year of horrible online experience?
i hadn’t bought PES for a few years. but positive reviews (your site included) convinced me to give it a try. for me, online is a huge deal. besides the lag, we can’t play against anyone outside of north america (WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ADDRESS THIS WHEN YOU GUYS TALK TO KONAMI IN THE GAME DEVELOPMENT STAGE????). i have been let down again. and of course my vertical cam has ruined the gameplay for me (no, i can’t play horizontal cam). i really, really wish that i had known of these issues. i should have rented. bad, bad vince.
don’t fret forever though. we should see soon some patch that will either fix the lag, or konami will run and hide in their usual fashion. rest assured, i think that seabass will no longer have a job after this, his final offering.
@ 35, I only meant people are delusional if they think that a bad connection doesn’t exist as part of the problem in some cases. Although, I admit that I don’t know a lot about netwroking and servers, so even that might be wrong. My point is that it’s out there – bad connections, that is, but how do we tell if it’s us or them? Anyone?
Also………. A patch needs to be brought out and soon.
Hey there guys I play loads of games online and I have to say Pro evo is the only game I have any problems with. 90% of my games lag. I also have Fifa 10 and it never lags. In my opinion evo is the better game but I bought it for online and it just doesn’t deliver its a disgrace!
ive been playing konami fotoy games since iss, won a uk comp @ it tbh, since pes2004 konami have gone drastically backwards , matchmaking doesnt work, has always been crap, direct pc 2 pc connection is required, but.. they wont, cause lobby,logins etc stops pirates, pes2008-pes2009 using hamachi worked great, i hardy played 2009 @ all online, 2010 isnt any better, every player seems to play with real or barca still and with a 1 sec delay its difficult enuff, let alone 3 secs, konami wont fix/change, if people still buy it. i will wait next year, see whats said before buying it, i did this year tbh, but £17 isnt alot for a game, i wonder why its so cheap!!!!