PES Matters 6th February 2009
Posted by dougiedonut in PES 2010 News on Sat 06 Feb
Looks like I couldn’t muster much enthusiasm from you guys about PES2010 last week, judging from the low number of comments left. Surely there are still people out there who do find some level of enjoyment from PES? I still consider PES2010 the best PES to date, as I stated with my review of it, and it’s surprising that there has been such a huge backlash against it.
Yes Konami have had a hard time adjusting to the demands of gamers for the current generation of machines, but I truly believe we’re on the verge of greatness with the next installation of the game. A while ago, I did say that in my estimation that PES would require two years to really deliver the total package to us. So this next edition of the game should reach the heights of popularity that the game has been famed for. Naturally I think we all are going to have a huge part to play in order to get the best out of the game.
I am yet to have a proper chat with Dan to organise our joint feedback initiative, including a new venture for us in communication with the masses – a chat room for us to get some banter going with fellow PES fans. We are aiming to try out a few new things on PESGaming.com to try to evolve how we operate. We think it would be a great idea to get a bit more interactive with people ahead of the key period later in the year when we are on the verge of the final release of the game. We’re still a good 5 odd months away from getting invitations to get an early taste of the latest installment of the game, so we’d like to have a decent set of communications tools established for then.
I recall reading a comment to an article a couple of weeks ago from “old enough to know better” who made a very intriguing point about perhaps PES needs to stop trying to deliver a game with so many sub games. It’s a very intriguing idea and it’s really made me think. Currently we have League modes, Cup modes, BAL mode, Master League and of course the online game.
I wonder how many modes of the game are still relevant to most gamers today. Do people play the standalone League modes?
Or the single player Cup modes? I know people have had moans about having offline multiplayer participation where players can take control of CPU teams. But the point is, could Konami shave off some features to help them spend more time on the core modes that interest us?
I think the online mode and Master League modes are the key modes of interest, as well as offline multiplayer modes.
But I haven’t mentioned the much missed training mode that used to be in the game, where you could hone your single player skills, as well as the now distant memory of the scenarios mode which provided hours of entertainment. There are so many facets of the game which can start arguments about what is missing from the game, that perhaps we need to consider talking to Konami to prioritise the modes that matter. I’d be interested in hearing from you guys which modes we think are no longer relevant and so could help to focus more attention on modes that do matter.
Finally I’d like to say a big thanks to everyone that has joined the PESGaming.com community on PES2010. I have been very busy for the last couple of months and have neglected arranging sessions for the members. I will however be shortly looking to arrange weekend sessions on the game. So please do join up the community if you can, as we would like to use the mode properly and see what improvements we can come up with.
Thanks for reading.
Dougiedonut
dougie your trying to tell me this is the best incarnation of pes, it doesnt even play like football m8. it is to clunky there is no way you can play free flowing stuff like you used to, the best thing about the game now is it looks very pretty and that is it. pes2009 played better than this guff. your on about cutting down modes to make other ones better, im sorry to say that if konami needs to do this they should stop making the game now, have u seen how many modes fifa has and their game play is now better than pes(never ever thought i would say that)! they need a f*@k*~g wake up call at konami this game is going backwards and their main rival is getting stronger! AND ONLINE dont even want to get started on that ****e.At the end of the day pes days are now numbered the more they mess about with it the more they are getting it wrong. last point gameplay bolton do not play like arsenal and keep the ball for four and five minutes at a time do the people who did the game play even watch bolton play! nuff said.
I too believe that the next installment has the potential to be something amazing. Pes 2010 provides a solid foundation and it would’ve been a really good to great game if only they ironed out such obvious and easy to fix downfalls such as refs, penalties, gamespeed as well as providing gamespeed option, and more intelligent CPU akin to the PS2 installments.
As for the league mode it’s the main mode I play. I clock hundreds of hours in this mode on every Pes game. I like the quickness I can hit the pitch compared to the ML where you need to spend a lot of time managing before playing. I also don’t like the ML cuz it’s not realistic at all with the exaggerated player growths and lack of real lower divisions. I also play the cup modes around Euro/World Cup time when I can setup the correct nations and squads. I’m glad Konami improved the league mode this year with the perfect integration of Champions League and Europa League, with fixed accumulated fatigue and I’d be gutted if this mode ever got removed.
I thought training mode has always been in the game? It’s definitely in my game.
I don’t think people can keep saying don’t mention the online play. For many of us its the reason we play games – to go online and play with friends. Until that is fixed the game will continue to lag behind FIFA. I know I have a poor connection but I can play both FIFA and MW2 with very few probs – PES – just doesn’t work -
PES 2010 was definitely better than PES 2009 in every aspect. I liked the new player card system and if improved upon would provide some authentic movement of players.
The modes if anything need to get better. It would put PES even further back if one was to cut back on the game modes. I would like to see an addition of a Season mode wherein you have one season to win as many trophies as possible ala Barca. Also for the love of God can we have more stadiums. Its a disgrace to play in just 20 something venues when FIFA offers 50 of them.
As for the next installment they still need a lot of work. I think it would be naive to suggest that PES 2011 will just topple FIFA’s newfound supremacy right off. One of the main things which KONAMI should look at is consolidating the strengths of the game i.e. presentation and fluidity of play.
I would love to see teams come in with their own style cards which determines how the team plays best. Currently you can adopt a similar style for every side. Force players to change their game according to the team they have chosen, you can be assured of more enjoyment that way.
I would like to have the fanshop back, where you could earn points if you won Master League to buy things in the shop for.
I hope the 2 player mode could come back.
I’ve always enjoyed Master League, but I think the best is Become a Legend. I think they could add stuff to BAL, you should be able to use your wages to buy new gear or improve your stats…etc..
PES10 — too little too late. I also think it is the best PES to date, but it’s just more of the same old, and proof that Konami do take their fans for granted.
It offers nothing new. Sure the tactial system and cards add a bit of glitter -BUT- we still follow a script dictated by the COM.
Konami needs to give the user the power of dictating off the ball movements; manipulating how the script unfolds throughout the game.
They can add the best animations in the world, the best graphics, more stats and cards, more new modes, etc, etc. But if they don’t touch the core gameplay mechanics: the game will remain the same at its core, logically.
I am 100% sure that Konami have known this for years, it is their game after all and I’m sure they know exactly how it could improve -BUT- the market is still very good, so let’s keep the game simple and cheap.
I do play League Modes, I play the Dutch League which is fully licensed.
I also play All-star League in which all top teams are present from Milan to Bayern .. its fun
Anyone people knows something about the transfer update and if there is a chance for fixing anything of the known issues?
Well I personally don’t know too much about the official KONAMI one but for the PC I have updated the Premier League and some of the other clubs. Plus created a ton of players as well, they may not be on a professional level but definitely on a casual gamer level. So if anyone is interested in the transfer updates let me know I can upload the Option Files.
I still like PES2010 dougie and I still play it regularly but I couldn’t muster the enthusiasm to post in a comments section overflowing with trolls and fanboys.
if konami require 2 years to truly deliver, then they should take a year off from producing an installment and spend AT LEAST 2 years making a game that can put right the many faults that pes currently has.
Starting with a new game engine because the one they continue to stick with is unfortunatly, not good enough for this generations hardware
If 2010 is the best PES yet, then god help us all and I’m going to start playing Mario games.
PES was never that good in the first place.
The fact that you can play PES5 and PES10 and notice no significant differences in how you create space and play the game… I think it indicates that Konami is not interested in real progress; they just want to sell the same old turd year after year.
I’m not expecting EA to do anything about it either. Both Konami and EA have their market, and regardless of how much of an improvement FIFA 2011 will be, I can only see sells improving.
Newbies will dig these games and “hardcore” veterans will grow bored of the same old concept — “old enough to know better”
I, like a lot of people have a lot of issues with the game, poor referees etc etc etc etc.
I also would like to see the return of various features that have been dropped, such as the option to choose game speed and the training challenges/tutorials.
But the biggest issue for me and my mates is the fact we can’t play multiplayer offline tournaments and choose to play as the opposition CPU team when they are playing against a mate. Bringing back this option would be so very simple for the developers to do (God knows why they disabled it in the first place), and it wouldn’t require altering the general game in any way, so there’s no reason for them to sacrifice this option to focus on other areas of the game. Just bring it back, Seabass!! It really does wreck the game for those of us who want to play PES like this, the way we always could on the PS2 versions, and it’s actually still available in the PS2 version of PES 2010
^^ Followingg on from that, Dougie, you were asking if people still played standalone leagues. Well yes, I did a full La Liga in PES 2010, and for me I prefer this mode to Master League. It included the Spanish Cup and Champions League running within the season, which is a great addition from previous PES games. But it is nowhere near as much fun as playing a full league with a mate or 2, picking your teams, then being able to play as each others opposition in every match. This also applies for Champions Leagues, World Cups etc. It is much more fun when we are able to play every game. Plus it’s a great social buzz trying to thwart your mates ambitions playing as teams you would normally play as. It beats the hell out of having to play the dumb CPU while your mates can only watch, then having to wait for your mates to play the CPU. As you can probably tell, this issue drives us nuts! Because it would be so simple to fix, and it’s idiotic that this option was removed in the first place
^^ So, yes, I think the standalone leagues are an important game mode in PES :)
Sorry for 4th consceutive post, but a typo from post 16. I meant to say “playing as teams you would normally never play as”, I left out “never”
You know, it’s something I’ve been meaning to bring up on here for a while now. What with many asking for additions instead of replacements, and many more saying “What’s the point? They’ll cut stuff anyway no matter what we say”, it might be worth asking “If they’re gonna cut stuff out of the game anyway, what things would you not miss if it did get cut?”
One of mine would be to get rid of this year’s stats on boots thing. It might be more realistic to have stats on them (beats me… I didn’t realise certain shoes made you go faster), but I’m prepared to let realism bend a little if it means I can avoid wearing a garish-looking shoe for the sake of stats that probably make little difference in the game anyway.
PROBLEM : Year by Year PES is getting better, but fans are not happy with the level of improvement.
SOLUTION : Make the work of Development team easy, by providing quality feedback which is detailed and organized and most importantly which is POSSIBLE to implement in a period of ONE YEAR.
@ freak08, Post 20
Completely disagree with you on that…
That is precisely what we do every single year, we ask for very easy improvements which should be easily possible within one year — Konami cannot even manage to get that right.
How do you expect any revolutionary improvements if we continue giving the same type of feedback?
The PROBLEM that you pointed out haves no SOLUTION. Konami will keep selling the same old turd, they will release PES every year; improvements will be superficial.
In my opinion, it’s about time someone haves the balls to take two years off and give us something we have never seen before -INSTEAD- of the same old polished turd.
The PROBLEM actually is that adding and adding all sorts of superficial features will never touch the core gameplay mechanics that should have been replaced by now.
The PROBLEM is that adding small new features every year is going nowhere. The only real SOLUTION is for Konami to finally replace what needs to be replaced -instead- of taking us for granted.
The game is so old that the improvements required will surely take more than ONE YEAR of development. There is no HONESTY around here, only a few fans are honest enough to speak up.
I can already see how things are shaping-up this year, and I’m really thinking about making better use of my time. Most fans will ask for “realistic” improvements within a year -and- then these fans will also complain about the lack of progress.
It’s all very counterproductive and disappointing, I’m thinking about not giving any feedback at all this year. What would be the point? At the end of the day, this year’s list of improvements will be completely recycled.
@ Amateur
For making a good game, Konami will not ditch PES2011 and work for PES 2012/2013. They have to consider both, and start working. They must give updates of what they are doing, thats what is called fan based game. But we do not know even a single % of the next installment. They do not even tell on what they are working on. There is nothing to keep secret and surprise us with a incomplete game.
Amateur please read this again
SOLUTION : Make the work of Development team easy, by providing quality feedback which is detailed and organized and most importantly which is POSSIBLE to implement in a period of ONE YEAR.
Your Off-the-ball-movement concept which you have been talking all over PESGAMING is absolutely acceptable and is a solid development. But do you think they can implement this in one year? I too have many ideas and have posted in WENB and will post it here too. and there are many under experimentation by me and my friend. These cannot be implemented in one year. So what i meant was, give feedback which will improve the game in one year. It does not mean it should be from gameplay, it can be anything even presentation.
I have always considered your posts to be good one and have responded in the right way. I knew your Off the ball concept cannot be implemented in one year, so i suggested an alternative here
POST 104
http://www.pesgaming.com/blog/interfering-with-play/678/interfering-with-play-tuesday-26th-january-2010/#comments
Like you, I also want the game, the way it should be. For this we are always ready to give ideas. Now I’m also HONEST and you did not understand what i meant in the problem & solution post. I’m explaining it again :
Consider only those improvements that can be done in a period of one year. Do not give us a incomplete feature/mode. I hope you understood now, but it was my fault of not explaining it properly.
So we all hardcore fans have to keep giving new ideas, you guys are my encouragement. As we discuss, our ideas are get better and better.
@ Amateur
You have suggested completely about off-the-ball-movement and I have suggested about controls and skills in WENB, like wise I want everyone to make suggestions in detail which would see improvement coming soon.
I’m confident that my Controls and skills suggestion of WENB would be considered. As my suggested control system is very new and no two control will be same and you can do infinite skills and movement with the ball as in real life. Also the tricks and skill are not ready made.
I want everyone to give a detailed suggestion instead of just saying ” improve the gameplay ” , ” improve the graphics and animation ” etc..
You are more concerned about off-the-ball-movement, I’m more concerned about animation and on-the-ball-movement. Our ideas are valid and can be implemented. Like wise why don’t other fans give ideas on a particular department, so that the work is done quickly and perfectly.I again hope you understood despite my bad English.
@ freak08
I think I understand what you said, it’s just that I’m so disappointed with the progress of the series.
I agree with quiet alot with what is being said here. I only play certain modes of the game like ML, League and Cup. I must admit i do find other modes fustrating like BAL and the training mode I now don’t see the point of. I find even more fustrating the Online mode as when I TRY to login it throws up errors despite entering the required details properly.
What I really don’t understand is why this and the last incarnations of PES (on the PC) have each required higher and higher spec machines/rigs when an XBOX360 or even PS2/3 owners can get to play the latest versions on machines that are at least 2/3 years old. I think that PC owners are ripped off each year (as not every PC owner can afford to upgrade every year).
I’m not really sure what Kanomi what to get from the franchise anymore, but things do need to improve and by firstly listen to their game players from the different areas like PC, XBox360, PS2/3 and even Wii to see what improvements they would like to see and yes I do realise that not everyone will be happy if their suggestion are not impliemented.
Improvemnts I would like to see are the the ability to play Online, fully licenced Premier League and maybe Championship. Plus being able to play the game without having to look at upgrading my PC each year.
In general though picking out through previous comment PES has been on a SLOW downward spiral for some time, so I do think Konami need to start doing major overhauls for at least the 2012 or 2013 versions as it might be to late to do it for the 2011 version.
Sorry typo Paragraph 3 should say ‘…what Konami want to…’
i dont give a monkeys if pes looks better than fifa i just want it to play online better than fifa
“…but I truly believe we’re on the verge of greatness with the next installation of the game.”
Anyone else getting deja vu?
I am disappointed at the game overall to be honest. I just have no more interest in the game after a month of releasing, which is sad, for both Konami and myself really – it FORCED my passion of football gaming to dry out. BUT I am looking forward to PES2011, simply cos its the only hope. Please do not upset those CORE PES fans, like myself! We dont wanna give you up, but dont force us to!
@freak08
I agree with you 100%.
this is because konami are not stupid, they implement pes with reality,however konami were very secretive with their customers/fanbase ,which is bad for business,but now they comunicate to us through websites like this one .whos to say seabass himself hasn’t seen this .
i play pro evo 2010 on the ps2….it is by far the better game. it FEELS like football.
i played the 360 version not long back and it is truly awful. mortal kombat animation and utterly devoid of soul.
who cares about fifa? the fact that pes has gone so wrong on the next gen platforms is the main concern.
get your ps2 out and play it like it should be played. Dougie if you think the current version is the best, then i’ll have some of what you’re on…you must be off your t**s on happiness.
PES/Winning on Plasytation 2 = I played all year/12 months!
PES2009 next-gen = I played 6 months unhappy -> delete
PES2010 next-gen = I played 3 monthy, very unhappy… near to delete
Konami still fail… PES2010 is not a good football simulation and is not a good action football game…. is a frankenstein!
Master league is the only mode which has to be considered improving at present.
HOW?
1) expand everything in the mode
2) Data presentation is not adequate
3) Data management and recall is needed, when it comes to commentary in ML ( like he must say how the player was in previous match/season, match stats and other factors like previous results,etc)
4) New transfer system with direct dealing with the player
5) Building form through training mode
6) calendar in ML should have all the days, with training sessions and other training.
7) Post and pre match interview should affect player confidence
8) Complete fund management system manually.
9) Have manager specific managements and job openings ( will explain it later in detail )
10) Revamp player affection system, with user interaction with players concerned.
11) Acquiring skill or position card through training.
12) Newer methods of presenting data , like pie chart, bar representations, animated data presentations,etc
… this list goes on…
but before all these let konami make realistic gameplay !! Ask me how and give me some time I’m ready to tell inch-by-inch :)
prey tell Freak08
bad points in pes2010:
poor AI,
speed fast (very unrealistic),
poor moviments and cutscenes,
very bad refere (no penaltys, marcial fight),
very bad GKs (unrealistic),
Messi, Ibra, and others stars = aliens.
The game is too easy for experients users.
Chants is terrible…
BAL mode is the more stupid AI in the game…
good points: graphics and…. more nothing!
Hi Dougie,
Interesting read this week. I have to tackle one issue and that is “on the verge of greatness”. Pes as its stands is a pretty decent game (for me anyway) and caters for my footie gaming needs (99% online).
PES is always evolving and new versions are released every year with various “improvements” etc. and there will always be room for improvement and therefore will forever be on the ‘verge of greatness’ – every year our expectations will grow.
I’m sure that come release of PES2011 you could use the same phrase and every year thereafter.
I’m all for discussions on improvements and feedback to Konami on what we would like to see in next years game, but when does this process start? I expect most are 2 years in the making as no doubt Konami have already got a fair idea of what they are including in next years game so unless easy to implement will sit on the shelf until they start considering PES2012.
In answer to your question about what options I play – BAL I’ve played 2 or 3 times (when PS network is down!) but apart from that only online.
this dougiedonut is surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for PES? for years now, it’s been building and building. if you have a favorite restaurant that used to give you good food, you consider yourself loyal. but if after three times of getting a lackluster meal, i think that on the fourth time, even though you are really hungry, you will finally look elsewhere for your hunger fix.
what really sucks is that most of us PES fans would have been quite content with even just a graphics upgrade over the ps2 platform of the game (which it appears is still in use and is kon-u-and-mi’s top priority). from that graphics update, we could have seen the growth that we have been expecting. that was three years ago.
many of the things that made us fall in love with PES are gone. i really, really hope your proposed chat room will put the game back on the right track. but this track can’t be one of “starting over”. it has to be a blockbuster right off the start, we will not settle for anything less. with the chat, and knowing that someone is listening right that moment, be prepared for some seriously-pissed off folks. and take good notes. especially for what i have to say :P
I would like to go on record and say i think it’s the best pes game yet, my issue though is that until someone brings out an option file which has all the premier league and championship teams in it i don’t want to play the master league. I can’t stand getting past the 1st season and playing against a foreign team it’s so off putting.
There’s no way i have the time to edit it myself so we’re back to the realism factor. Say all you like against fifa they at least have all the right team licences.
I love playing as Real Madrid and being able to give the ball to Ronaldo in my own half and sprinting past the whole team and scoring every time, its so realistic
http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/blogs/worldcup/post/slug/2010-fifa-world-cup-producer-blog-1
New features of FIFA WC 2010 –
“A gorgeous new pitch – our pitch simply wasn’t good enough, so we’ve made it look superb.
Lighting of the players and environment – clever changes to the lighting makes everything look more realistic.
Camera flashes – you’ll see all the fans in the crowd using their cameras.
Seat cards – fans hold up cards to form national flags and emblems in a show of patriotism.
Fans – close-up shots of supporters cheering on their team or despairing in anguish.
Confetti – rains down from the sky in the team colours and stays on the pitch all game.
Streamers – create a carnival atmosphere as they glide to the ground.
Populated benches – characters sat on the benches rather than being empty.
Broadcast graphics – the same captions you’ve seen in FIFA tournament broadcasts.
Close-up celebration camera – to really feel the goal-scoring moment the camera zooms in close to the player as he responds to your celebration commands.
New players and managers – more content for star heads and many of the team managers. Capello looks brilliant and Peter Crouch no longer looks like a naughty elf.
Responsiveness
New chest traps that allow you to chest the ball in the direction you want to go rather than having to take mid air touches after a chest to change direction.
The ability to let a ball drop over your shoulder and move off in the direction of ball travel. Great for preserving momentum with lofted through balls.
Improved the problem of trapping the ball too far and being ’stunned’, then taking too long to go and dribble the ball.
Defensively, players will now clear an aerial ball rather than do a chest trap first when you are asking for a clearance.
…and many more
Goalkeeper
Improved the ‘narrowing down the angle’ logic so the keeper doesn’t come out so soon and so far, making him vulnerable to the chip shot.
Ability to change his save direction if there is a deflection.
Added variety to punching which results in punches sometimes not clearing the ball out of danger.
…and many more
CPU Teams
Added more skill moves for the CPU to use depending on a player’s flair attribute or trait.
Better understanding of game context and situation, resulting in more intelligent changes of tactics/mentality.
Manager now looks at who he has as subs and will attempt to give star players on the bench some playing time (i.e. Fabregas for Spain; Pato for Brazil). Previously he would rely solely on match rating and fatigue, leading to unrealistic substitutions or the same one over and over again.
…and many more
Positioning
Teammates will now take more factors into account when looking into space inside the box when they are making a run for a cross to be delivered. I can verify how exciting this is having seen the way that Emile Heskey bulldozed his way onto the end of a cross in Andorra the other day.
Improved marking for when the CB pushes up to the ball possessor when he shouldn’t, leaving the team vulnerable to an easy through ball and 1-1 with the GK.
…and many more
Shooting
Improved the realism of where players strike the ball to give more off centre strikes leading to more swerve and variety in ball trajectory.
Changed the chip shot to make it more challenging and also to improve the feel of it – more backspin, better trajectory.
…and many more
Passing
Added personality to crosses to allow better players to put in more driven crosses into the box.
Added chest and shoulder passes.
Lowered the amount of power you can get on backwards crosses and backwards lofted through balls, forcing you to have to roughly face the way you want to pass for these types of kicks to succeed.
…and many more
Set Pieces
Ability to trigger a teammate run on a quick free kick.
Lowered the likelihood of the CPU scoring from FKs, they were too good.
…and many more
Then are also brand new features for gameplay. I am allowed to mention that each team will play differently at home or away if under CPU control. For example, Northern Ireland are great at Windsor Park, so they are way harder to beat there than they are on their travels. That makes qualifying for the World Cup Finals feel much more realistic as you can beat the smaller nations at home quite easily, but away from home you may have an unexpected battle on your hands.
Then there is altitude. Some of the venues in South Africa are above 1,500m. That’s high, and if you are not used to it then it hurts to play at that height. This is why England are going to train in Austria in the Alps before they fly to South Africa. So for games high up teams who are not used to the conditions will find their stamina isn’t as good as it would be near to sea level. Then in South America you have Colombia, Bolivia and Ecuador. They are really high up, especially Bolivia where La Paz is over 4,000m. One of the most memorable results from qualifying was when Argentina got totally spanked 6-1 in La Paz. They just couldn’t handle the altitude in terms of stamina and also the ball flies a bit faster and straighter since there is less air resistance. All this is in the game!”
>> EA seem to be making a big effort to improve what they already have, whilst Konami still dont seem to know where to start…..
“I am yet to have a proper chat with Dan to organise our joint feedback initiative”
My god, you are seriously deluded!
I’m a newbie to this site. have been playing fifa 10 on xbox for a couple of months and think it’s boring because you score and concede pretty much similar goals most of the time. haven’t have chance to play the xbox pes too much because the disc got damage. i have been playing the pc version of pes 2010 for a week or so so far, think it’s much better then fifa 10 on xbox. i apply the smoke 2.0 patch, and think it’s great. i could see there are many flaws in the game but after playing fifa 10 for so long, i could live with them. i think from the limited time i played pes on xbox i think the xbox version is truely rubbish, but the pc version plays better, much more fluent gameplay.
have play older pes on ps 2 in the past, and i can’t see someone said it’s not a big upgrad from before. but i think the 360 movement is quite good actually. it works well in the pc version. so i’m happy to have a decent footy game to play for now.
i meant i can see someone said it’s not too big an upgrade from the last gen…
why im i still band of the website douggie u doughnut
Amateur – after a lot of catch-up reading of your posts from last week and the week before regarding off the ball movement, I have a couple questions:
- Have you tried PES on the wii?
- Doesn’t the game already have an option so that you can actually control an off-the-ball player and request a pass?
- Your example of how to control this sort of thing doesn’t seem to work IMO. You only gave two examples of how to control one player coming back to help in the build up and one other example, and I believe both would be using inputs which are already asigned to other controls. R1 plus tapping x for example would be a pass, no? I think that instead of spending so much time and energy telling people how inexperienced and dumb they are for not understanding your ideas, that you should just spend more time explaining them better and in a positive manner if possible.
Maybe I missed reading some posts, but in this case, from what I read I’m not seeing clearly how this is such a great idea. What it would add is still not manual, and in my opinion it’s more man-management, not really true team-tactics, which we already have and can execute on the fly quite effectively (which I find means that I really am able to influence the “script” of the game). Do you even use on-the-fly tactics and attack/defense levels? They make a huge impact on procedings IMO.
Anyway, I think more is needed to offer up a better solution. The problem you present is valid, but I think you take on it is over the top. I mean, looking at the big picture, Konami have truly been working on this side of things and offer more than current games in other sports-genres. Look at the wii version as well as recent press releases to see that Konami are working on implementing Natal. My main point of contention with you is that you are trying to suggest that Konami don’t care about their customers because they haven’t implemented YOUR suggestion. I personally think that’s a very narrow minded perspective and I don’t see why you feel the need to put it that way. Just make your suggestion, be positive about it, and move on.
@44, Wolfman. I would you imagine you are banned because were constantly insulting other people, and going off and foul mouthed rants whenever anyone voiced a different opinion to you. Even in your query here you sign off by saying “Douggie u donut” (your misspelling), I dont’t think you’ll ever learn, you were banned a bunch of times before, and when you came back in you were straight back to mindlessly insulting people in the threads. Other than your nonsense rants being unintentionally amusing, I can’t see any reason why the moderators would be bothered letting you back in. I’m un-interestedly awaiting your ranting reply
Shtoomer, that game looks set to be alotta fun, can’t wait.
@40 Shtoomer
Looks like a potentially great game alright. I’ve always been a PES fan, never really got in to FIFA, it just doesn’t have that satisfaction of PES, well at this stage, how PES used to be. But I can acknowledge that FIFA has been making progress and improving a lot over the last couple of years, whereas the PES developers seem to be hellbent on destroying it’s legendary gameplay.
From what I’ve read, PES 2010 is taking a battering from FIFA 10 in terms of sales. If the PES developers don’t get their finger out big time for PES 2011, it might be the death knell of the series, especially if the rumours that Ubisoft are developing a football game for release this year are true.
I really hope PES 2011 does finally deliver the gaming masterpiece on current gen consoles that we’ve been waiting for since the PS2 days. PES on PS2 was magic, and even PES 2010 has that old magic in there somewhere amongst the rubbishy referees and all the other little buggy things. But the developers need to up their game, or PES will be buried, which would be a sad thing to happen
@31 gramswagon
I traded in the PS3 versions of PES 2008 and 2009 for the PS2 versions (I have the launch model PS3, so it can play PS2 games). Mainly because of the issue on the current gen consoles, which is it is not possible for another to play as the CPU opposition in offline multiplayer tournaments (I ranted in more detail about this in posts 15 and 16)
I found the PS2 versions of PES 2008 and 2009 to be better than the PS3 versions. And from what I’ve heard the PS2 version of PES 2010 is brilliant. This is why PES is getting slaughtered by FIFA in sales. Since the next gen consoles came out, PES has somehow managed to be going backwards, whereas FIFA has been going forwards, listening to fan feedback and implementing suggestions from their fanbase. The PES developers give the impression that they don’t give a damn what their fanbase think. Though I hope the PES fan questionaire that Konami put up on fan sites at the end of last year is a sign that this attitude of indifference to their fanbase is FINALLY changing, after years of fan frustration at the lack of communication with the PES developers.
I still prefer PES over FIFA. But I can appreciate that FIFA has been making improvements and working with their fanbase. The PES developers could learn a thing or two from the FIFA guys, not least about Public Relations. It used to be the other way around
@45 Ty Dave I agree 100%. Instead of talking about the game like a mature adult, he resorts to patronizing anyone who has the slightest disagreement with his philosophies on football. After all his knowledge on football is unparalleled and he is the great Pes Messiah.
No you haven’t missed anything at all. His behaviour has been the same this week, last week, and ever since he started posting few years ago. Get ready for hell Dave because God forbid anyone to question the great Pes Messiah lol.
@49 Yea it’s shocking that the PS2 versions still have better gameplay and are more feature packed. Here’s to hoping that all changes with Pes 2011.
@Stormrider – I have had ongoing debates with Amateur in the past just like you have recently, and although we usually disagree at first, to be honest, he’s actually got some good ideas (like many people on this and other sites do). It’s just in the explanation that some of us mortals seems to get lost and misunderstand what he is saying. I think what you will find though is that if he explains in more detail that the core idea is actually a good one. In this case though I think more specifics are needed to flesh out the controls and how they would work because at the moment I’m not quite seeing it.
PS – While we’re on this subject, can anyone confirm if there really is a setting in PES 2010 which allows you to control players other than the player with the ball?
Every football game fan should buy ubisofts upcoming football game, for the sake of the genre.
Quietly been making a whole new game engine ready for release this year, further justification to what i said a few weeks ago.
pes11 will be the last in the european market.
Regarding game modes in PES:
I think custom league/cup mode should be the staple of any football game. Master League and online modes are the big draw, but personally I still love creating custom cups, and custom leagues are great for offline multiplayer tournies.
Personally I’m not bothered about BAL or online modes. I just want Konami to get back their roots and deliver the addictive core gameplay of old. Let EA worry about the gimmicks.
again, bad points in pes2010:
poor AI,
speed faster (very unrealistic),
poor moviments and cutscenes,
very bad refere (no penaltys, martial fighters),
very bad GKs (unrealistic),
Messi, Ibra, and others stars = aliens.
The game is too easy for experients users.
Chants is terrible…
BAL mode is the more stupid AI in the game…
+ other bad point in PES: automatics pass and kicks! In the past was good… but today is a kid’s soccer game… I’m not a stupid kid! I want a true simulation!
PES2010 is bad than my bad english… I was a PES-fan, today I dont know… But, I play in PC… and FIFA in PC is a trash… but FIFA in consoles is very best…
@Dave I told him the same thing. Nothing wrong with his ideas he just needs to elaborate on them more and discuss it with us like a mature human being.
There are some really basic off the ball controls, such as holding L1 when passing or pressing R2 after a pass to send players forward. Really basic I know but it’s there nonetheless. I guess switching off certain player cards like incisive run, overlapping run, free roaming, etc are a form of off the ball control too.
Also you can switch the cursor settings to unassisted. This way whenever you pass the ball you don’t immediately control the ball carrier until you switch the cursor to him. Although you make a sacrifice and allow the cpu to conduct the play for a short time, you can make many devastating off the ball runs this way and then call for a pass BAL style.
I think if Konami ditches the preference for d-pad and goes full steam ahead with analog control then we can use the freed up d-pad or maybe even the right analog stick for more sophisticated off the ball controls, sorta like what EA does with the Fifa d-pad.
Dave O,
I will try to respond in the best possible manner, as specific as I can be, but it will take me a couple of days.
Dave O,
I’m not going to explain much at the moment, but I just wanted to comment on something.
I think Duffman was spot on when he said that the pace of the game isn’t that fast; it’s got more to do with the size of the pitch in relation to the players, it’s too small.
To put it briefly, I think the football pitch should be a bit larger, so that passing ability is more pronounced… But most importantly, to focus more on off-the-ball play.
The larger the pitch the more space available on the pitch, players would need to run more off the ball, etc. Therefore we would need to put more effort in order to score goals because the defense will have enough time to close down like they do in real-life.
We would also have a bit more time to implement new features for passing and off the ball movement, and also for the technical game.
The hardest thing is finding that balance between: not over-complicating things unnecessarily, but also not limiting what we can do to the point it feels like the players can play by themselves.
One thing is certain, we need more time on the pitch, with more time we have more space to add the substance that the game is currently lacking.
removing game modes would probably take more work than just leaving the current ones in. I think your argument should be to concentrate on improving a couple of the game modes and leaving the others alone. But to some extent they have done this as BAL was hardly touched. I only use BAL, master league and offline multiplayer.
Concentrating on less platforms would really free up more time for next gen gaming. I think the biggest issue has been hit on the head. Konami still hasnt got to grips with the next gen machines. Why, over the past few years, has the PS2 versions been better? They need to concentrate on getting the best out of the best machines.
Whether you like the outcome or not, PES10 has seen the biggest change than any in the series. If you look at the graphics and master league alone. Not where I’d choose to spend the time but maybe other areas they had worked on just werent ready. Its hard to know what Konami have as a work in progress. There might be a new game engine, but its a long term job. Every area has seen tweaks, just like every new PES, but with the addition of some major changes as well.
Im guessing that 2011 will see them concentrating on BAL, animations and again trying to fix online. As well as the usual tweaks and fixes. I can see a new engine coming out in 2012.
AND U STORMRIDER CHEERS PAL
JUST LOOKED UP SOME OF THE POSTS AND GUESS WHAT STROMRIDER U DONT HALF TALK SOM SH I TE MATE GET A LIFE U LONER