http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4wCqgBTIyA
Whatsup Lads,
What a job Konami have done with the trailer. Out of nowhere they have struck first blood against EA and the battle against FIFA 13 has commenced. It might seem too early to even think about Pes 2013 when there is 6 months left before it’s released but Konami have started the hype train to achieve one thing; awareness. PES is changing, we the fans are being listened to. There’s no bullshit. Most importantly, EVERYBODY is talking about Pes. Talk about stealing FIFA’s Euro DLC! Surely a coincidence?!
While the marketing team at Konami deserve credit, I have to admit the footage fully backs it up. The movement looks amazing. The direction of the game seems to be almost (dare I say it) hardcore PES. The tagline “Talk is cheap” is a serious statement. The potential of the game has caught every football gamers attention. In this day and age, innovation is rare. Potentially, PES has everything going for it. I have wanted PES to go back to it’s roots for ages. I want an incredibly hard game to master. I want to be beaten 10-0 by a far superior player. Leave FIFA have the casual market. Leave it have the licenses. Daymos will sort us XBOX fans out and the PS3 option files are equally amazing.
The confidence Konami seem to have so early in the year fills me with excitement. Shooting and keepers are mentioned in the first few lines. They are tackling those problems head on. There is no way Konami will screw the shooting and keepers up. That is almost a guarantee. It’s an exciting time to be a PES fan that’s for sure. Get in touch below and let me know your feelings on the trailer and details released.
Check out my YouTube Video in which I go into more detail on those features, including what the forums are buzzing about.
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@ Lucifer666
Like I said before, I would use a dynamic camera to get closer to the action every time a one vs one situation occurs, however, the 1st person view would interfere too much, and splitting the game into two cameras is unnecessary as far as I’m concerned, I believe in doing things one step at a time, and because of that I would start with a simple solution that everyone can use, and if that works, then I would see if a 1st person view could work.
I am completely against working on all aspects of the game, I believe that you should work on the whistle and bells but only after you have a solid foundation; however, working on all these secondary things when the foundation of the game is extremely flawed, is a big negative, because it slows down the whole evolution of the game.
Furthermore, when you say that the game is still playable, I can tell you that a lot of people who did not bought PES12 will disagree with you on that one. For me, core gameplay is, as you say, the end all and be all, but I don’t loose any sleep over it, I simply do not bother buying the game, and if PES13 is going to be PES12.5, then I have to say, that this will be the first time in over 7 years, that I will not buy a PES game.
Sales in England have declined dramatically over the last 5 years, and I guess this year -if Konami doesn’t do something dramatic- I’m joining that group of people whom are no longer buying the game. I bought all their mediocre games, from PES08 to PES12, but my enthusiasm for the series has run its course.
In any case, my opinion about you, as a fan, is that you do not have a good perspective on what really matters…. You read a revolutionary idea such as “precision touches” and you do not think about how much the game would improve because of it, instead, the first thing that comes into your mind is how the camera would be an obstacle, and how a 1st person view might be necessary, and how the master league should be improved, etc, etc.
I think you are looking too far ahead, and in doing so, you are overlooking what really matters to the vast majority of people, which is the core gameplay. I would compare it to recovering from a ligament injury, in that instead of focusing on the recovery one day at a time, you are already looking at what you want to be doing in three months time, and in doing so, you become careless about your actual rehabilitation, which is what really matters if you want to get back into shape as quickly as possible. I personally know football players who have permanently damaged their knees, because instead of following the rehabilitation step by step, they started playing football again as soon as they could walk without limping, which is a mistake that they regret to this day because their knees never fully recovered from that.
So although I genuinely find the 1st person perspective a cool idea, I view it as something to be added one or two years after you have a solid foundation, I do not view it as something that I should be thinking about before I have a solid foundation, organization is key, and I feel that improving on all the aspects of the game when you do not even have a proper foundation is a clear sign of lack of direction and lack of organization.
@ Micky P
That’s definitely something to consider, I’m already 90% certain that I will not buy PES13, but the point about the PS4 is definitely something to consider. My belief is that Konami will not make the same mistake twice, they will not destroy their reputation with another PES08, I think they will start with a solid game that will surprise even the most skeptic of fans. I just think Konami has accepted that they started badly and that they never quite recovered, I think that Konami is actually looking forwards to the release of the PS4 console, it gives them a fresh start, and let’s be honest, they have needed a fresh start ever since PES08 came out.
Hopefully the PS4 offers better and more comfortable analog sticks, as well as better and more comfortable pressure sensitive buttons, that really is all that is needed in order to take video games to the next level, I mean that and a significant upgrade in terms of graphics and memory.
I think that, as far as footy sims are concerned, the PS3 was very disappointing for me, I was much more impressed with what the PS2 managed to do, and I expected much more from the PS3. Hopefully, the PS4 will offer more than just superficial improvements.
@ Barry
Fully agree with the punishment that you talk about, it is something that does not concern me at all if I’m honest, but I do know a lot of people whom are seriously irritated by that type of thing, and so I acknowledge that a lot of people would greatly appreciate if Konami can do something to improve in that respect.
Though having said that, I never rejected the suggestion of such improvements, such improvements should be done, the same way that a Fantasy Team Mode should be done, because such improvements require very little effort put into them, yet would make a great deal of difference for a lot of people.
What I did rejected, was the notion that patching an extremely flawed game will pay off in the long run — it won’t, look at the FIFA franchise, FIFA10 was on top of the world, but when you look at FIFA12, the predominant sentiment is that the FIFA franchise has gone backwards. And they are correct in my book, FIFA has gone backwards, instead of improving the core gameplay, EA Sports focused most of their resources on the same flawed system of player individuality that PES had used for years, on a new collision system, on new modes such as 11 vs 11 and watching Cristiano Ronaldo taking a *insert term of preference here* just before the game and whatever new mode they come up with next, but the core gameplay has arguably gone backwards with scripting increasing with each passing year.
My point is, patching flawed gameplay, is not only very difficult and time consuming, but the game barely improves because of it, and as a matter of fact, the game could be worst after a bad patch: bottom line, patching a flawed game is detrimental in the long term, on the other hand, investing time in a solid foundation is very positive in the long term.
Improvement like the punishment that you suggested, improvement like the Fantasy Team Mode that I suggested, has absolutely nothing to do with core gameplay, and therefore it should be fairly easy to do, and therefore it should not interfere with the thing that matters the most, which is the progress of the core gameplay.
What Dave O suggested is patching flaws that are directly related to the core gameplay, and that’s a terrible direction to take, because for every little thing that you patch, a new negative will need to be created: PES5 was like that, PES6 was like that, PES08 was like that, PES09, PES10, PES11, and PES12, were all like that. The core gameplay revolves around an automatic concept, by patching the “crossing”, does the patch change the fact that “crossing” is not manual?
That’s my disagreement with Dave O, as simple as that, he believes that consistently patching little flaws that he believes are easy to fix, is something that Konami needs to do with PES13. What I said to Dave O, is that if patching such things is as simple as he says it is, then why is FIFA12 not the perfect game? Why do we have people who loved PES11 yet hate PES12?
Because it’s very hard work, it’s not easy nor simple at all, because for every little thing that you “patch”, you need to intentionally create another flaw that the computer can use to increase the difficulty of the game: such tweaking or “patching” consumes a great deal of time, and at the end of the day, does not actually fixes anything, it merely transfers the flaw from one area to another area, it merely minimizes the flaw in one area and then maximizes a flaw in another area, and then the online exploiters quickly find what that new sweet spot is, and there you have yet another “patch” in the making, etc, etc.
So that’s my disagreement with Dave O, he believes that by patching the crossing sweet spot, that the game will be a lot better; I disagree, I say, if you patch the crossing sweet spot, it will not change the fact that crossing is scripted, it will not change the fact that a new little flaw will come hand in hand with every new patch, and it will certainly not make the game more fun to play, and it will certainly not capture the attention of the people who didn’t bothered buying PES12.
Hardcore fans do not want patches nor maintenance, hardcore fans want manual dribbling, manual passing, manual shooting, manual tackling, that’s what hardcore fans want, and I think Konami cannot offer what hardcore fans want if it continues spending time on small tweaks that (a) consume a great deal of time and (b) will not fix any of the core flaws.
As I’ve said before, I believe Konami has what it takes to make that change happen with PES13, but they need to spend more time on the core gameplay and less time on the little tweaks, they need to spend more time adding a little more animations and less time on the little tweaks, etc, etc. EA Sports has a valid excuse for not making any real improvements to the core gameplay, but I feel Konami isn’t quite in the position to do the same.
As for Dave O, I apologized to him, and he didn’t even acknowledged the fact that I had apologized to him, and to make it worst, he personally offended me on top of already offending me by not acknowledging my apology. My apology still stands because I shouldn’t have responded as strongly as I did in certain parts, but I’m certainly not interested in getting along with someone whom has always treated me like a joke.
Anyways, appreciate the time that you put into this website, it is greatly appreciated.
Amateur Quote
“In any case, my opinion about you, as a fan, is that you do not have a good perspective on what really matters…. You read a revolutionary idea such as “precision touches” and you do not think about how much the game would improve because of it, instead, the first thing that comes into your mind is how the camera would be an obstacle, and how a 1st person view might be necessary, and how the master league should be improved, etc, etc.”
No, no no…please don’t construct opinions of me!l
First off I do want to say that I think alot of what you say about the game has merit and I’ve never been one of these people who felt you shouldn’t contribute here because you do make some good points but the comments I copied above from your post is an example of the reasons people get annoyed with you, it can be really irritating so much so that it puts me off wanting to continue even replying to you, It looks almost like you’re mad because my response was not more favourable or what you wanted it to be? I don’t know for sure except that it sounds ‘attacking’,'pompous’ and ‘judgemental’!!
Amateur Quote
“I am completely against working on all aspects of the game, I believe that you should work on the whistle and bells but only after you have a solid foundation; however, working on all these secondary things when the foundation of the game is extremely flawed, is a big negative, because it slows down the whole evolution of the game.”
I see it like this…Whether Konami have a good foundation or not they still have trouble adding the proper evolving whistles and bells…Like I could argue that Konami should be overdoing it on the extras simply because they aren’t doing huge things in terms of the gameplay, you would imagine they would be trying to hide the unvarying nature of each edition by flowering it up with loads of improvements on the different modes and stuff like the commentary but no its been very slow coming or hasn’t come at all thing.
I also think because they have introduced certain modes like the Master League or MLO they have opened the door that cannot now be shut and they can’t now just standstill and focus solely on one element like the gameplay,……Konami I believe will never do that
I know you want to see the gameplay improved and evolved and I’m with you on that… I want that too! but I think the modes, the extras, commentaries, etc are all very important aswell and shouldn’t be dismissed or discarded so easily
Finally I played my first match online, decided to buy PES 2012 for PS3, have been using the PC version for years. I couldn’t understand why in 3 matches my opponents only choose Barcelona? is it the ultimate team or what? I draw in all of them.
Looking forward to PES 2013, no matter how Konami make us excited and then let us down, at least we should wait and see the game before judging it being lame, maybe this time The King will be back.
So if there is anyone in South Africa or around the world playing Fifa on PSN, my ID is greatCR7, Let’s play!
@ Lucifer666
COMMENT
I know you want to see the gameplay improved and evolved and I’m with you on that… I want that too! but I think the modes, the extras, commentaries, etc are all very important aswell and shouldn’t be dismissed or discarded so easily
RESPONSE
Extras like you mentioned, should be added into the game, and also improved. But I never criticized the addition of extras, what I criticize is the addition of the BAL Mode for example, because if the core gameplay is as dated as it is, you should not be adding new modes that require a lot of time.
But extras, such as a Fantasy Team Mode, better commentary, punishment for online cheaters, etc, etc, Konami should do much more about that, because extras do not actually interfere with the gameplay. In that respect, I fully agree with you. Though, again, the BAL Mode, and by the same principle, a 1st person view dribbling, is out of the question as far as I’m concerned, because the core gameplay still is very far from what the PS3 can really do.
IMO BAL has revolutionized sports gaming in a lot of ways (almost all EA games have this mode now). Saying it doesn’t work because of the gameplay is personal opinion, but not in agreement with my personal opinion, as usual. Also, the eventual progress of BAL is to make online leagues I think, where you play for a club or faction. I think it’s an important innovation, and could lead to some bigger things for the franchise down the line if they stick with it, but not just that it’s a lot of fun and a lot of people play it!
Yeah, BAL has revolutionized football in a lot of ways, that is why the vast majority of hardcore fans stay away from PES…. I’m not saying it does not work, I am saying that the core gameplay of PES12 and FIFA12 does not work, which is indeed a fact that I can prove with hours of footage, it certainly is not my opinion: I am not saying that the BAL Mode does not work, do not put words into my mouth yet again, what I am saying is that if the core gameplay is not remotely near to what a PS3 can really do, you should not be adding extensive modes like the BAL mode, because it will slow the evolution of the actual gameplay.
For a person who supposedly believes in “first things first”, you sure do not understand what it means.
At the end of the day, the vast majority of hardcore fans will not touch PES if PEA does not offer great core gameplay…. If I want the BAL Mode, FIFA offers better animations and all the licenses, so if that’s the direction Konami want to take, making a copy-paste of everything EA Sports is doing with FIFA, then I wish them luck with that, but I’m certainly not buying PES again until I see a vastly superior core gameplay.
That’s my opinion, and I feel that’s the opinion of all the people whom are now buying FIFA instead of PES. As usual, you contradict yourself in every possible way.
Who are these “hardcore fans?” WTF does that even mean? You make everything you say up from my perspective, which is why it’s a waste of time talking to you directly. I will, however, continue to point out the blatant fallacy in your points of view so that others are not fooled and because someone has to state the obvious. Saying that BAL keeps the gameplay from evolving is nonsensical because I’m not talking about adding a whole new mode like you are I’m pointing out the obvious – lots of people love BAL, it has changed the way we play football games, and it has potential in the future to evolve into something even more special if they stick with it. Bottom line, people woudl be upset if it was removed. And yet, you say that adding a whole new fantasy mode which is far far far less innvovative or even interesting of an idea is somehow okay???? Why, just because it’s your idea? Then you call me contradictory without even saying how/why? Ridiculous BS as usual Amateur!
That’s me above…
Who are the “hardcore fans”?
Hardcore fans were the reason FIFA did not outsell PES by a ratio of 25 to 1 back in the PS2 days, hardcore fans are the reason FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1 last year, and, of course, WTF does it even mean? It means that people who used to buy PES back in the PS2 days, are now buying FIFA…… and since PES lacked many licenses back in the PS2 days, it is fair to say that the people who used to buy PES are hardcore fans, people who buy a game for the gameplay, not for the licenses nor the hipster modes that fans like yourself love so much.
Dave O, your argument is dumb, actually, you do not actually have an argument, you have no actual point, you are so far off from your comfort zone it’s not even funny.
BAL Mode has the potential “in the future” to be a very great feature, I am not against the BAL mode, nor did I ever said that “people” do not like the BAL Mode: please, stop putting words in my mouth, it makes you look childish and weak.
What I did said was very simple, “hardcore fans” who used to buy PES back in the PS2 days are now buying FIFA, this is not only apparent on the sales statistics, but fans themselves openly admit it on the forums, and therefore it is a documented fact and not just false exaggerations. As a hardcore fan myself, I have to question that, considering the fact that EA Sports has a much bigger team than Konami, why is Konami working on extensive modes like the BAL Mode, when their core gameplay is generally disliked by the vast majority of casual and hardcore fans?
FIFA offers better animations and more licenses, therefore, it comes as absolutely no surprise, that if a person is very interested in the BAL Mode, he will buy FIFA seven times out of ten, as was demonstrated by the 25 to 1 beating that PES12 took last year.
It is no surprise, that when a much smaller team, such as the team that works on PES, starts working on extensive game modes such as the BAL Mode, at a time when their core gameplay is not even close to being good enough and even further away from getting close to what the PS3 can really do, that FIFA12 sold 25 copies for every 1 copy that PES12 sold.
It is no secret that FIFA always sold more copies than PES, but back in the PS2 days, the gap between the two sales-wise was very respectable, not the joke that it is today. You want to label me a “self-centered” person, when I’m merely a realist.
And I ask, when FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, which is something unprecedented, why do we still have fools like yourself who do not understand what a “hardcore fan” is?
PES will only get worst and worst beatings, if it continues going down the same direction. And the fact of the matter is extremely simple for anybody whom is not a self-centered childish gamer like yourself: if the core gameplay is not even close to tickling what the PS3 can really do, then you should not be adding a new extensive mode such as the BAL Mode, because then you have less people to work on the core gameplay, and therefore it actually does slow down the evolution of the core gameplay.
And specifically, you should not slow down the evolution of the core gameplay, when your direct competitor has a much bigger team than you, and can therefore logically work on more game modes than your team can. When your direct competitor has a much bigger team, if you are wise, you cut your looses, eliminate the BAL Mode, eliminate any other mode that requires extensive gameplay tweaks, and you concentrate 90% of your attention to the core gameplay, and that should at the very least put Konami in the position that they had back in the PS2 days.
Fairly simple point, any person whom is not a self-centered childish gamer, will understand the point the first time they hear it. Again, I am not against the BAL Mode, I am against Konami dedicating good chunks of time to the BAL mode when the core gameplay feels and looks as unfinished as PES12 is.
A new mode, such as a Fantasy Team Mode, is not meant to sound interesting to an uninteresting person like yourself nor to a genuinely interesting person, the idea is simple, and the idea sells, as is proven by the fact that NBA 2K12 has been extremely successful with the direction they’ve taken, which allows “hardcore fans” to play with their fantasy teams. It is no secret, that a hardcore NBA fan, has a fantasy team or dream team, and that if a video game offered him the opportunity to play with his fantasy team, that the idea would be a great attention grabber: hence, why Michael Jordan is on the cover of NBA 2K12, the undisputed king of basketball sims.
To you, a fan who does not understand the difference between an added extra (such as the Fantasy Team Mode) and an extensive new mode (such as the BAL Mode), the idea will sound like something that is not worth the time. On the other hand, for people whom are far more intelligent than you where marketing is concerned, it is easy to understand that licensed classic players such as Michael Jordan and Larry Bird, gives you a “hardcore” image that you can sell to the hardcore market, because only a hardcore basketball fan would know who Larry Bird is, because casual basketball fans will only be interested in Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade. Is it an innovative idea? No it isn’t. Is it an effective idea? Yes it is, it’s easy to implement, easy to sell, and creates a “hardcore” image around your game.
For the record, the Fantasy Team Mode is not actually a “new mode”, it’s more like a new team that you could chose when playing online, it has nothing to do with gameplay and requires no tweaks, it is an extra, it is not an extensive new mode, it is not a whole new mode.
At the end of the day, Fantasy Teams are very old, at the end of every World Cup Tournament, the so-called experts join together to build the fantasy team; is there any mystery as to why, a hardcore football fan such as myself, likes the idea of playing with Roberto Baggio and Carlos Valderrama on the same team?
Did you by any chance, ever took a look at the PES websites where you had a lot of PES players creating faces for classic players? It is neither new nor a mystery, that hardcore fans are well in touch with their sport, and that their favorite player is most likely a player who already retired, which is why they use their computers in order to create faces for their favorite players. Why should Konami not bother with classic players when classic players are as appealing as they are to hardcore fans? Because they wouldn’t have time to work on the BAL Mode?
I ask you, what is the BAL Mode doing for Konami, when FIFA is outselling PES by a ratio of 25 to 1?
You can decide to ignore WTF a “hardcore fan” even means, but the statistics are loud and clear, and only ignorant fools like yourself decide to stay ignorant; why is the BAL Mode detrimental to the PES franchise? I already answered that question, and I think the sales statistics do support my argument fairly well. Why is a Fantasy Team Mode a whole new mode? It isn’t a whole new mode, the BAL is. I’m not talking about adding a whole new mode like you are, I’m pointing out the obvious: FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, an unprecedented beating, are you sure a lot of people enjoy the BAL Mode? Whom would get upset if Konami eliminates the BAL mode? The people whom are already buying FIFA instead of PES? Unlike you, my arguments are not based on my personal taste, my arguments are based around facts, and the fact is, FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, the fact is, EA Sports has a much bigger team than Konami, the fact is, that if you could still get away with it, you would still use the D-Pad today, I rest my case.
@Assmuncher – I only read the first paragraph (seriously, do you think anyone would read such a long post when the fist paragraph alone is so full of hypocrisy?). Anyway, again, I’m done talking to you. I’m sorry to have said anything to someone who clearly is so out to lunch. Saying all the hardcore fans play Fifa is BS. Besides, even if that were true, I could care less because Fifa still seems far less deep than PES in my opinion/experience.
@ Dumbperson
Don’t start conversations that you do not know how to finish; seriously, not only do you not acknowledge when another person apologizes to you, but you also do not bother reading responses yet at the same time expect other people to read your shallow and erroneous efforts, it’s a sad sight, how you attempt to act as a superior being, yet how you actually manage to look as sad and as pathetic as you look.
And don’t get me wrong, I do not respect your opinion, I do not respect people like you, but for the sake of your illogical argument, you should show a little more conviction because “only reading the first paragraph” because the post is too long, is sad, if you find that post too long to read, then I’m afraid your reading capacity is as disappointing as your overall persona.
And most importantly, you really cannot talk about “hypocrisy”, you really cannot, there is zero hypocrisy in my argument, my argument, unlike yours, revolves around facts, do not call me a hypocrite simply because you do not agree with the facts.
I could dig up your old posts from 2010, when you used to be “afraid that player individuality could be lost or greatly reduced if manual passing is implemented” and that you “would be satisfied if Konami continues tweaking what they have since I found that PES10 has potential” — but I feel no necessity to dig up the exact words, seeing how I remember your conservative arguments. The fact of the matter is, you just follow the trend, you were skeptical about manual passing, but when PES11 came out you thought it was cool, and that’s basically who you are as a fan, you are conservative and self-centered, your opinion has been the same since the first time I read one of your posts “a massive overhaul seems unnecessary, I feel that if they tweak this and that, then they have a solid game”, and worst of all, you do not know how to defend your arguments as an adult.
For the record, when did I ever said that all the hardcore fans play FIFA? I am asking because when I say that the majority of hardcore fans are either (a) buying FIFA or (b) not buying FIFA nor PES; do explain to me, how you translate that into “all hardcore fans play FIFA”?
Once again, you prove that you are an incompetent fool who consistently accuses *insert name here* for things that *insert name here* never actually did. I never actually said that “all hardcore fans play FIFA”, perhaps you would actually know that if you had actually read the entire post instead of reading the first paragraph: when FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, it does not necessarily means that all hardcore fans are now playing FIFA, but it most certainly means that a significant portion of hardcore fans are not buying PES anymore. A very simple point, yet one that you had to twist into “all hardcore fans play FIFA is BS” even though I never actually said nor even suggested that all hardcore fans play FIFA.
Like you, I also feel that FIFA is not worth my time due to how superficial it is, but my opinion about FIFA, and your opinion about FIFA, is irrelevant in this discussion….. I am discussing the fact that FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, I am discussing the fact that PES never took such a beating back in the PS2 days, I am merely pointing out the obvious fact -which Konami is well aware of- that a large portion of the hardcore fans who used to support PES back in the PS2 days are no longer buying PES, the mentioned fact is unquestionable on the basis that,
(a) Konami themselves admitted that they wanted to win their hardcore fans back with PES11, which was something that they clearly failed to do with PES11.
(b) The sales statistics show that PES sales have declined, FIFA outselling PES by a ratio of 25 to 1 was impossible back in the PS2 days.
(c) A lot of fans have used the PES forums, not to praise the game nor to ask for gaming advice, but to express their disappointment, and to make it abundantly clear that they “will not buy PES until they fix the gameplay”.
(d) And the fact that I personally know a lot of hardcore gamers who used to buy PES back in the PS2 days, but are now buying FIFA12 just for the sake of having a footy sim to play, because they do not really enjoy FIFA all that much. Added to the fact that a lot of people on the forums know a lot of friends who used to buy PES but are now buying FIFA.
It simply adds up, when Konami themselves say that they have lost a good portion of their hardcore fans, when the sales statistics reflect the fact that Konami has lost an essential portion of their hardcore fans, when a lot of fans use the PES forums just to express their disappointment, and when you personally know people who used to buy PES but are now buying FIFA, it simply adds up to more than my “self-centered” opinion does it not?
So please, stop calling me a hypocrite simply because you chose to ignore the facts; or by all means, continue behaving like a spoiled child who cannot accept when he is clearly in the wrong. When FIFA12 outsells PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, it does not mean nor even suggests that hardcore fans are now buying FIFA, what it means, is that the casual market has grown just as EA Sports expected or even beyond EA Sports expectations, whereas the hardcore market has shrunk in size because the hardcore game is not hardcore anymore.
If you feel that PES12 is hardcore, good for you, but your opinion is completely irrelevant when the sales statistics are loud and clear. Furthermore, your opinion is not enough justification to accuse me of things that I never actually said, the very fact that you have done that with all the responses that you have thrown my way, makes you a hypocrite, and a spoiled hypocrite at that.
Anyways, I am done talking to a person who cannot even read past the first paragraph, yet consistently accuses me of things that I never actually said nor did. If you were actually as funny or as inventive as you clearly think you are, I would look past your deficiencies, but the persona that you bring to this forum is just spoiled and dumb beyond I could care to explain.