As more impressions and news start to come in thick and fast, we’re starting to see a new round of optimism surrounding PES.
The more maturer gamers will remain just on the right side of cynical for now.
News of a post-E3 PES 2013 event next week should be well known by now. Unfortunately we will not have a representative available to give you our take on the state of PES. Dan did try to advertise a little while ago for a keen gamer to join our site for this purpose, but nothing materialised there. If there is another event in July/August then I shall try to make that one.
Personally speaking, I’m not sure there is much which can be inferred at this stage in the game’s development. Whilst there will be clear differences from PES2012, there will be a big caveat on the game’s production. Presenting impressions where I’m overwhelmed by the new concepts will cloud my judgement. Getting a view in July/August will mean seeing a product closer to completion, and therefore it would lend itself better to drawing impressions from it.
I have it on good authority that the Super Cancel function, whilst still present at this stage, does not need to be employed in-game.
This is great news in one sense, as it must surely mean that on-rails gameplay is finally being scrapped. But on the other hand, the fact that it is still present speaks volumes to me. If the game is truly free, why still have an out-moded, much denigrated system function still mapped to the control system? If nothing else, the R1/R2 button combination could be used for some other function, if not make it editable for your own preferred actions. Hence I remain somewhat sceptical about the actual freedom we’re being given.
Again some of you may say that I should have gone and argued the case there, but it’s moot point now. I’ve made people who are closer to the product aware of my feelings on the subject, so hopefully they can champion the cause better than I can.
I’d be interested in hearing how your general levels of optimism are right now, relative to the feel good factor that is emanating from the Konami camp. I will leave the current Super Cancel poll up for a bit longer, given the low number of responses.
If you haven’t voted please do.
Thanks for reading.
Dougiedonut
(dougiedonut@pesgaming.com)
Loading ...
Once bitten, twice shy (or 5 times bitten, 10 times shy in PES’ case): I don’t see PES13 changing the world around and expect sales to drop even further, looking at recent history history there is hardly any possible way to believe PES13 will be that leap forward the franchise needs.
Sad but true, hope to be proven wrong but I doubt sincerily that will happen…..
@MagicaRoma spot on , the games looks exactly the same as pes 12 nothing has changed , the same tone konami uses all the time , have the fixed their broken refree’s most of the new installation don’t even work well up till now they are promising us full control, i could have sworn a couple years ago they had installed full player control in 2011 , konami
don’t get it , one thing i hate the most about this games is the player rarely uses their hands to create space or hold a player back . In real life as a defenders, hand movements are just as important as legs , they’re are the last result if beaten by foot , as an attacker hands are used to create seperation from a defender as well, up till date the is no real physical coalition , players just run by without being grabbed or pulled , if you watch messi in real life , he is always grabbed or pulled , in fifa grabbing players is implemented as well , only in konami is the tackle control not only useless , but you can’t even grab a player to slow them down , just carefully watch their trailer and you will see how easy it is to run by players , this game is such a dissapointment full of potential , the nets are horrible , i mean we are in 2012 and they still haven’t even nailed down the basics , the simple basics such as nets , gloves , animation , refree, shooting . Many of the Pes fans bash fifa as easy and arcade i personally think they are wrong. Fifa might be easy and arcady , but it has all the elements of a football game , great commentary , animation , atmosphere, physics , they play exactly how i would play in real life .Even though i believe Pes has far more potential , they need to get down the basics , can anyone of us picture playing a game in which the refs got their calls wrong. Konami sorry have failed again this year , maybe next year they will suprise us , but definetly not this year , i had stayed faith since their downfall in 2008 till 2012 , that four years and i’m telling you they don’t even have the basics down.
Pingback: allsoccer-football.com » Blog Archive » PES Matters 10th June 2012
before you critisize the tiny bit you have seen, head over to wenb and read the hands on e3 verdict from NGB who played the early code for the day, they state, as you do that the game looks the same, however there are many subtle changes that improve the game, read the article and let me know what you think, they seem very optimistic.
Please get rid of the Barcs BOys!!! For fookk sake
Talk is cheap, I’m waiting for the game to judge it. For me even PES 2012 is a nice game when you take out the scripting issues, but overall what I want from Konami is not Full Control, Player ID, ProActive AI or whatever they want to call it, All I want is to take away SCRIPTING !!!!!!!!! Because with all these features the game becomes scripted like PES 2012 is, they are just USELESS. I want to play the game the way I want not the way PES want it to go, if it’s like that I will just go over FIFA and play it ’cause there it is meant to be played the way EA Sport want for years now. Why promise us to have total freedom of play while you are making my team players do ridiculous move which I didn’t provide at all with the controller just because you want me to lose or something.
I will accept losing and enjoying the game because I couldn’t come up with a better idea than bringing the best game ever than when you just want to score your player slide to shot while you wanted him to shot standing. Your through ball goes to the back while you wanted it to go forward, all these and whatever scripting just looks ridiculous on PES 2012. If PES 2013 doesn’t change that, I would prefer playing even an arcade game than wasting my money on empty promises from KONAMI in 2014
As most here already know I’m not impressed at all with the trailers or news that has come from Konami….I expect more than gameplay tweeks and yet again that is what seems to be offered to us this year…its quite frustrating though it has started me thinking if I had the oportunity (money) to make a soccer game what would ‘I’ make? What would succeed? My early notions are focused more towards expanding the ideas of ML/BAL(or FIFA’s equivalents) I would love to blend a sandbox world into it….Could you imagine starting off as a young teen player/ young Manager in an open world just signed to a small club, living in a crap apartment, basically your a nobody in the city until you prove your self on the pitch, for me it wouldn’t even matter to a degree what the graphics of the football part was like I’d happily have it back near a ps2 level, the main thing is that the gameplay is good, it involves you, and has commentary that reflects the decisions you make in the sandbox part. The controlled character and the city would have to be pretty good though reflecting how well your doing in your career…..bringing you sports cars, nightclubs, women, luxury homes, toys, throw in a mountain of activities to do outside soccer that you read footballers/Managers do or might do. Dealing with press people, doing interviews meeting fans, drink driving, possibility of being arrested and its reprecussions on the pitch with your club, You could even have a broad/loose storyline going on involving your created character (I am undecided on whether this would work though) Its all about making you feel like you really are a player or a manager something I feel is quite lacking this past while in PES for me. I still hold a little hope that one day Konami are going to go down this route with ML/BAL but unfortunately I have come to the realisation that I may have arthritis by that stage lol
I’m pretty sure others on here are just going to hate this idea of mine which is fair enough, everyone is different after all but I would like to ask all you folks
‘What would your concept be?’ What Soccer game would you create? Do you believe you could do a better job than EA and Konami?
@Lucifer666 – You should try “Soccer Superstars” by gamevil on the iphone. It has quite a few of the elements you’re looking for. There have been other games in the past with several of these aspects as well, but I can’t remember the names of the games (one for nintendo with little or no gameplay at all comes to mind). Anyway, I don’t hate the idea, but it’s something you could say about just about any game. For example, what about if in call of duty once you are called off duty you have to go home to your family and change poooy diapers (“call of doody”)?
Anyway, if it were easy to implement successfully I’d be all for it, but the problem with that sort of thing is that you can’t do it half-assed. It has to be a full commitment, otherwise there would be so little depth that it would become boring and repetitive very quickly. And if it’s a major undertaking that takes things in a totally different direction than the focus of the game as we know it, then it’s simply a different game in my opinion. In other words, it’s cool if you want to make it yourself, but I wouldn’t realistically expect Konami to go in that direction… Although they are Japanese, so you never know!
As for what I would do… Good question. Off the top of my head I would probably create an online only game. This is all fantasy of course, so we’re ignoring financial/commercial realities, but I would like to see if it’s possible to create a game which continuously evolves based on user input and which is paid for by yearly subscription. The game would be stripped down, with just a few basic modes, including an online league (with an entirely different structure than MLO… In other words, it would actually be a league, not just a free for all where the games and divisions don’t really mean anything). Personally I think part of the problem with PES is that it takes longer than a year to “perfect” a game, and by that I mean getting rid of exploits, balancing gameplay, etc. For example, if they just got rid of the speed merchant card, slowed the gameplay a bit, balanced the defending so that through balls aren’t so effective, and toned down the effectiveness of crossing, you’d have a really great game in PES 2012 I think (one which, ironically, you could then add sandbox elements to). But the way it works is that now they move on to PES 2013, and start from scratch, but a year from now we will probably see than PES 2013 has an entirely different set of faults which will also never get resolved! It’s a sad state of affairs, and the really sad part is that the argument against evolving a game via iterations online (updates) instead of bringing out a whole new game (more or less) is that it would get boring and stale. Okay… That sounds plausible, but maybe it’s not really true??? Afterall, if the game is fun and well balanced, then in truth the game itself should really have longevity because variety comes from things like the fact that every time you play you see a goal you’ve never seen before (as opposed to seeing the same goals over and over). So the opposite is really true from that perspective… That’s the way I see things, anyway.
As for your other question: Could I do it better than Konami and EA? Well, that depends on what is meant by “better.” One thing I’ll say is that when it comes to originality I have to tip my hat to Konami. They continually come out with new innovations that nobody else seems to have thought of, and they have done this while they have been essentially in a slump in terms of their gameplay/physics engine. Anyway, I’m just saying I never would have even thought of some of the innovations they have come out with, so I guess I’m saying I honestly don’t think I could do better. As for EA… Well, a better question I think is, what would FIFA look and play like today if PES never existed? Probably garbage! So I don’t think I need to answer that question. Ha ha.
I dont no but, a good football game is not just about good animation you know? I ve been playing EURO 2012 and, im not here to bash fifa or fifa players but that game sucks big time when played against the Ai. Its too boring. The AI is not creative in attacks and always try to score goals lobbing the goalkeeper inside the box. All teams play the same way. Im 31 yo and im not a casual player, I play PES 6 every night when I got home from work, at 1am. Just want to play a good and fun football game in this gen. Sorry for the bad english.
Peace.
yessss!!! get rid of the BARCA boys !!!! …make a mode similar to that of FIFA’s (head to head seasons) …where not only does it match me to another player according to my level of skill, but it also matches the team I choose with another team of a similar skill level….so if I choose a 3-star team from a lower league, it will match me against another 3-star team…
Fook you barca boys!!
They should have less points and that will stop people using them and small teams have more points..
I played 4games tonight (im the away team by the way)
Barca v galatasaray
Barca v ajax
Barca v newcastle
Barca v marseille
Won 2 Lost 2
So Boring and sad people pick Barca all the fooking time even WHEN I PICK LESSER TEAM…WHAT THE FOOK IS THAT ABOUT??
@ME – What is it all about? Well, I have similar qualms with the sort of idiots I play in MLO, and I can only come to one conclusion based on the total lack of integrity that some of these morons have – they must be kids. That’s all I can assume. There are just so many twits online, that if they were adults or even teens behaving the way they do I would be really sad. I sure hope they’re just a bunch of twelve year olds anyway, cause that’s the way they behave.
@DaveO
This is the one ONLY thing that really frustrates me and honesty stops me from playing the game.. I hope they implement a new online system that introduces the lesser teams so We all would not have to play Barca all the time.
It would mean people pick more balanced teams which may have at best two or three top players only. It would mean people play each other based on strategies best suited to that team against their opponents. You’d hopefully come up against a few teams you’ve never played before and found them a challenge without being impossibly difficult to play against. Most of the time in MLO when an opponents plays with a super duper team, you’re forced to follow suit. This mode would put an immediate end to that.I have plenty of suggestion of how Konami can combat this..too fooking boring playing against Barca
SEABASS should be fooking Sacked and not take a backseat!! How the fook do they listen to the fans?
Thanks mate I had a quick look at Soccer Superstars on Youtube it looks interesting I must check it out sometime.
I think there is alot of games out there that possess some of the elements I’m referring to like ‘Football Superstars’ for the PC or the Facebook game ‘I am Playr’ however no game has gone exactly down the road I’m talking about, all seem to be just skimming the edges of what I would want.
As for Call Of Doody?? lol I do think there is a fair difference in what I’m discribing here and your Call of
Duty example also I think I could argue that it has already been done as lots of sandbox games where you are usually some kind of fighter/aggressor, allow you then to basically go off and do what you want
in a free roam world yet this has not been done for a sports game with a sports star or future celeb
I do however agree with you on the fact that it would have to be done correctly with no half measures particularly the City/ Stadium itself. As for the concerns about Konami going down a different route and it being a different
game personally I think Konami need to take a new bold direction, there is desperation for a game changer among
the fans and even if its not something like my idea they do however need to do something kind of radical.
If you really think about it my free roam/sandbox idea does reflect the natural evolutionary step forward particularly
for modes in the game like Master League and Become A Legend and I can’t help but feel that Konami cannot just now stand still in these areas. The truth is if Konami just see their game as a pure Football simulation strictly on the
pitch and are not willing to evolutionaise or improve these modes then they should never have been added to the
game in the first place. And just in case people think ‘just remove them now’ Konami have created many fans through these modes and they are a huge part in retaining the longevity of PES. I also firmly believe its minimal approach in improving these modes play a massive part in the game’s decline.
In response to your final paragraph I think an even better question is… what would FIFA and PES be like if they had genuine competition that pushed the envelope a bit? We might then get different games each year rather than rehashes of the last editions
Dave O Quote “They continually come out with new innovations that nobody else seems to have thought of and they have done this while they have been essentially in a slump in terms of their gameplay/physics engine.”
‘Continually’??….Really?? I sometimes think I’m playing a different game to others? I really don’t believe there was any fantastic innovations in the last few years at all and definitely nothing that arrived that surprised me. The problem in my mind is that innovations weren’t coming near quickly enough but hey thats my opinion for what its worth
I recently downloaded the PES13 “Behind the scenes” video (PSN Store) and I am dismayed to find that they are still going down the route of paper/vegetables/barrels and…even a baby’s head as possible footballs. WTF!!!!!
Don’t tell me Konami are serious about making a football/soccer game when they include this sh*t and we will NEVER get the game we want while they think all that is necessary, what next? a pair of bollocks to have a kick about with? FFS!
Hey Guys
I was really lucky to have the chance to playtest the E3 code of PES2013 yesterday.
I’ll post up my comments later today at http://www.onlyproevolutions.com but what was great was being able to play the game then interview Jon Murphy and the 2 developers from Japan Ippei Nio and Manorito Hosoda.
I managed to ask them about features/ scenarios in the game and also about the pros and cons after playing for 3 hours. to which they took notes and I even asked for something editing wise which ill claim if it really happens.
Ill try and go deeper in my write up but the close dribbling, knocking the 1st touch into any area and the new (fixed) shooting changes the game totally.
Games are even more realistic in terms of what you can do on the pitch and how you think when building up play..
Cool
I’m just after reading there that Konami have said that the Copa Libertadores will be available within the Master League this year. And yeah okay its nice to have it now but it leaves a slight bitter taste in my mouth as I feel this should have been added to the ML all along since those teams and players were added to the game. Its a prime example of what I was referring to in earlier posts when I said that I think Konami (and EA’s FIFA too) hold back on certain things so they can then add them to later editions citing it as new improvements or features when they are not really. Like in all honesty did they really need fan feedback over the last year or two to realise that most people would want to be able to access the Copa Libertadores within the ML??
Fan feedback is a great vehicle for us to get our message across to the makers what I don’t like, and I fear is been done now, is that it is being used so they can then feign ignorance and hold back features until a future version knowing the fans will ask for it in ‘feedback’ and so they can then say ‘We are listening’
It really boils my blood because I have a fair idea thats exactly whats happening and will continue happening……
@ Roberto
You know I think I tried those novelty ball types once, if that even, I agree with you they just seem a complete waste of time to me and I don’t know why they are added….I might feel differently if I thought they put a hell of alot of work into other far more important aspects of the game every year but they seriously don’t and so this looks just plain time wasting.
@ Daymos
I’ll check it out …sounds interesting mate ….did they happen to mention anything about commentary?, fans in the stands improvements? The Master League improvements? BAL?
Hey Lucifer
One of the guys said (translated) that the spanish league wll have all 20 staduims at launce and then he said if ronaldo has the ball for example then the commenry will react in a new way.
There was talk about derby matches when they wanted to implement home advantage but were not sure if it will make this game or the next.
Regarding commentry, i coudnt understand if he meant properly. Those of un in the room were under the assumption he was explaining commentary features different to PES2012 but i dont think it translated well.
I havent explained word for work what he said but I get the vibe he was trying to explain that the commentators comment on the stadium atmosphere in relation to what the player is doing on the pitch.
He used Ronaldo as an example but I dont know if its just with Ronaldo or for loads of players in the game?
@Lucifer – I read somewhere that there were reasons why Copa wasn’t in ML all along. Unfortunately, it would be tough to confirm by digging up the old news, but I remember this being discussed in the past couple years and as I remember it Konami wanted to do more with the license but couldn’t (for licensing related reasons).
As for innovations, I was talking more about BAL and ML, but also consider this first touch idea… It’s a great idea IMO, and again, it’s not something I have heard anyone on this forum or any other suggest in the past. Also, I have seen a vid of Konami working on PES behind the scenes, and it’s clear that the way they work is that they have a long list of “wants” – things they want to put into the game, and the list is way longer than what they can put in, so surely the sandbox idea is on that list, because clearly just about everything is (and, like I said it’s a very Japanese idea so I would be shocked if it wasn’t). For them it’s just a matter of trying to implement the ideas that most people want, but what I am saying is that they do tend to pull off new ideas that nobody ever seems to have mentioned, but are certainly great ideas. It’s not always predictable what they are going to do, in other words.
As for what Fifa and PES would be like with another competitor, I don’t know. Again, as a creative person I think it’s easy to sit back and dream about the perfect game, but from my perspective I think they are both trying as hard as they can to achieve that. It just ain’t easy… So I guess I can’t answer that question, because from where I’m standing I don’t think it’s a lack of commitment or there being a fire under their asses that’s the problem. Honestly, I think it’s clear that both companies feel the pressure that they put on eachother. No, I don’t think lack of competitions is the problem, certainly not compared to ther genres, like golf games for example (clearly the Tiger Woods series is stagnant because there is zero competition).
PS – Don’t get me wrong by the way, I like sandbox sports games, or games that blend RPG with sports gameplay, in fact one of my favourite games was World Court Tennis for the TG16. If you haven’t played it, I highly recommend you check it out on an emulator.
Av u seen the tackling system it looks well gay, looks so robotic, as he try 2 2 poke it away.
When looking at the E3 trailers I was impressed by the Player ID and the manual shooting the most (hope the chip shot isnt too overpowered). If I was a defender in Pro Evo and I saw these flicks and feints I’d be swimming in a pool of piss, overcome with fear and anxiety.
In PES 2012 the defenders already seemed to be limited when it came to dealing with attackers (reading the line the dribbler is going to take, yet still fouling him when lunging in, lining up the attacker sliding, missing the ball, and fouling him). I hope there are necessary measures the defending team can put in place to counter these flicks, if not, I am pretty sure we’ll be seeing plenty of basketball scorelines. I hope they’ve brought the intercept slide back, where you gather the ball! Too many a time you read the path of the ball, but then it ends up bouncing off your man back into the path of an attacker. PLAYER AWARENESS!!
Playtesters should be on the lookout for any sign of Steven Spielberg movie scripting! This was the main gripe I had with PES 2012. Its not nice when your mates disown you coz you beat them due to their keeper ignoring the round object.
Has defending been tweaked so as to make the game reward you if you read the attackers movements? Or do they still ignore the ball and take the man out? The niggly foul as well as the slide!
@ Daymos
I really hope its more than just referring to Ronaldo…. and I wonder what exactly is mean’t by commenting on the stadium atmosphere? When watching a real match on telly and something like a goal is scored alot of time the cameras would cut to fans in the stands and the commentator might mention something about them its simple little extra features like that, that would make the game much more realistic IMO
@ Dave O
Well mate if thats true I guess that would be different however I never heard that before and you would imagine that Konami would be freely giving that excuse for the last two years or so. I also think if this is fact, that they will now refer to a new deal that they have made to aquire the rights to use it in ML…so there is a good chance that we’ll find out one way or the other.
I disagree with you on the fact that there was great innovations in the ML/BAL, the last few years they have done very little with both parts in fact I’m constantly complaining that its these modes that get the least work or attention. Last year I got a little excited at the thoughts of a new look ML, etc (all culminated in another fancypants title named ‘Football Life’ This offered us new animated scenes which I assumed would be evolving and interesting…needless to say neither came about and it really looked like no thought was put into the longevity of this new feature, considering the ML is all about the long game I thought it was absolutely crAzy that this was incorporated as it was. I think most ML fans who played 2012′s ML when asked will tell you the animated sequences got really annoying because it was the same predictable lines everytime and absolutely no variety, You end up just pressing the buttons as quickly as possible to get through the damned moments.
First touch does sound good…..however I’d like to see how it feels and plays first before I would say anymore than that.
As for their Long list of ‘Wants’ They must scour through that list every year looking for the smallest ‘wants’ that they can get away with lol
Dave O Quote ” It’s not always predictable what they are going to do, in other words.”
I think most years I can predict the game they deliver will be extremely like the previous one released lol
I guess we are in the ‘lets agree to disagree’ zone again my friend as I believe a new soccer game on the market with different approaches could give EA and Konami a right good kick up their own complacencies.
I will check out ‘World Court Tennis’ thanks!
@Lucifer
dude i just saw how bad my grammar was in my last post.. you’d think my words were translated.. lol
I think it may be something like in FIFA where you get a brief history about the staduim or the derby between 2 teams..
But then again as he said Ronaldo.. I dont know if he means the crowd react when he gets past a player or makes a foul and if their are boo’s then the commentator may say, the crowd dont like that challenge as they are booing him etc..
I think this is partly wishful thinking so i think its best to ignore all i just said about commentators as I havent a clue what was meant..
I will try to find out today and report back.
Whether FIFA would cope without licenses, I don’t know, we’ll probably never know. But it’s interesting to see that it looks like; for EA to succeed, they need to block their competitors from acquiring major licenses.
this is why i hate EA games
same way they lock up NFL 2K after their sucessful game,
EA JUST sucks men they suck!!
the only reason why ppl play fifa is becos of all this licenses
they know they suck so instead of competing they just buy the licenses.
its almost like 2men abt to fight like men and on pull out a gun. thats a bytch move where am from. if u saying u a man then lets fist fight man to man. 1v1.
i ll not spend a cent on fifa the game just doenst make any sense
fifa will never cope without license
@ Ability
I assume you are referring to those comments issued by Jon. Murphy stating that FiFA copied PES and that EA has locked Konami out of getting licences which in my opinion was just stating the obvious but all competing game creators do copy from other games and I’m sure people could argue that at times it was the other way round and Konami copied FIFA but what’s the point in getting into that now? It almost feels like a diverting tactic or excuses on why PES isn’t exactly what we want? The truth is even though I’d love to see all the licences in PES it really wasn’t before and definitely shouldn’t be now the reason the game is either good or bad. There is loads of ways Konami could improve the game without licences but they do need to be adding more and thinking more radical and outside the box
@ Daymos
Lol no worries I just assumed you were in a rush…I hope your right and they have done something with the commentary…I’m not holding my breath though.
@ Daymos and anyone else interested
OPE Quote
“On Master League improvements. Hosoda asked me for my suggestions and the first thing I said was that there should be less (or none) cut-scenes. Jon and Hosoda agreed with me, saying they were boring and repetitive: “Master League was one of the key elements of Pro Evo in the past. We want to know what kind of improvements to make. Next year, we will remove the cut-scenes”.”
I’m quite annoyed with this…. I hated the cut scenes too but the problem for me was not the idea in fact I thought the concept was good I also had a glimmer of hope that it was the beginning of a more interactive ML but NO immediately it’s out…..there’s no ‘let’s rethink’, or let’s see where it went wrong no, straight away it’s cut. The big problem was Konami’s implementation not the feature… Had they done it half way properly it could have been a great improvement……grrrrrrrr. I find it very irritating
I am assuming that by them saying ‘next year’ they mean PES 2013 or otherwise it opens up a whole different can of worms like if they knew their cut scenes were boring and repetitive and want them cut why are working on them for this game surely they didn’t have to wait for the fine chaps of OPE to tell them the cut scenes they introduced didn’t work? I’m pretty sure my earlier assumption is correct ….. I hope lol
OPE Quote
“On match atmosphere and weather: “There is no snow in PES 2013. We’ll have a new engine next year. [For next-gen PES], we want to differentiate home matches from away matches, and weather will be an important element of that. Snow will definitely return in 2014.”
Yep because all of us who remember snow in PES before had actually dreamt it because the only way that snow could be incorporated in the game now is with a new engine. What a crock!!
I have to say too how in the name of all that is holy and good does snow or any weather differentiate home and away matches? Perhaps if your Brazilian side is taking on a team from Siberia it might make a difference lol
@ Lucifer, just to clarify, I said “MLO and BAL,” not “ML and BAL.” And I was talking about the fact that during this slump period they INVENTED both of those modes! I’m not talking about little changes, but the bigger picture. Without Konami we wouldn’t be talking about either of those modes. So yeah, honestly, I don’t think anyone predicted MLO and BAL, and certainly nobody predicted they would come to be such a major part of the soccer gaming experience. That’s what I’m talking about when I say I have faith in their ability to come up with things nobody saw coming. Case in point I guess, because even now we are all so used to these modes that we tend to think they have been there all along, but compared to ML they are both infantile and surely they will change quite a bit as they mature, just as ML did.
@ Dave O
Well if you look back mate you actually did say ML and BAL but hey you have clarified now and I understand…
I do however disagree as you probably suspected I would lol
As for these modes changing as they mature I hope that happens alot more than the Master League’s did since the PS3/XBOX360 move up its more or less been stagnant.
@ Lucifer – What is there to disagree about? Are you saying BAL and MLO are not major innovations? If so this seems contradictory because these modes are very similar to the sandbox idea and may lead into it. Honestly, it seems to me like you have blinders on and can only see one aspect of the game you want improved, but the sandbox is not everything! And again, you’re contradicting yourself when you say “people like me” concern you because we are only focussed on gameplay. Since when did I say that!? No, there’s no myopic view here… I want gameplay, presentation, animations, graphics, new modes, balanced AI, online improvements, etc, etc, etc… I’m not trying to argue for the sake of argument, but I have to speak up when I feel like someone is putting words in my mouth.
@ Dave O
Okay relax mate, I take your point about BAL/MLO and the fact that it is a starting block on a sandbox world and maybe they are Major innovations yet I find myself finding it hard to see them that way…. Neither mode has got me hooked in the same way that the ML had many years back. The truth is I champion sandbox to make a mode like BAL truly innovative as for other aspects of the game I don’t think I have blinders on I just find it hard to get really excited about certain tweaks or small changes in game play But hey that’s my opinion, you have yours and we are all entitled to them.
As for “ “people like me” concern you because we are only focussed on gameplay”
Why are bringing this back up for? This was said in a conversation on another article I think it was two articles back? you also replied to that post and never corrected me back then if you felt I was wrong and putting words in your mouth? you acknowledged in that other conversation that we were different,…..that you were more gameplay oriented. I think you said something like “…gameplay is tops for you” I don’t believe I said you were ONLY focussed on gameplay but did suggest that it is the most important feature for you and others. So I really don’t see what your issue is?
@Lucifer – No issues, and no need to tell me to relax. I’m just setting the record straight because I feel like I’m being misunderstood. I brought all this up because I read your last post and it suddenly became clear to me why the things you have been saying bother me, and so finally I was able to understand and express myself properly. I hope you can see that from my perspective it seems like your view is very myopic and that because of that I feel like you pidgeon hole others into “for or against you.” Hey, I speak my mind, and for that I can’t appologize, but I’m not the type just to sit back and let others misrepresent the facts, especially if my own opinions get twisted and misrepresented as a result. I’ve been on this site a long time by the way, and I have always tried to treat others with respect, but just so you know I do often stick my neck out like this, just to keep things balanced and in check, especially when someone comes on here touting a very narrow viewpoint. That’s me, and you can take it or leave it.
@Dave O
I’m confused, where exactly did I misrepresent facts or misrepresent your words? and while your at it could you also tell me how I managed to pigeon hole others into being ‘for or against me’? We were having what I thought was a friendly conversation with two opposing views but now it appears you were just replying because you have some warped view that my notions are narrow and unbalanced and this forum needs the great saviour that is Dave O to make sure I’m not overly corrupting or misinforming people with my apparent tunnel view??
That really annoys me as I genuinely thought like me that even though you and I disagreed you did enjoy hearing a different approach or point of view. There is other sites out there that IMO are far too pro-Konami and every year say the game is amazing and much improved when it hasn’t but I wager you don’t go to them to give opposing views and offer your form of balance nor if PES 2013 ended up being a great success and people were all here complimenting I doubt you would be feeling the need to offer criticism to get balance. No I fear your balance can be rather one sided….
I would appreciate it if you just didn’t respond to my posts anymore I don’t need you to add balance…my views and posts stand well enough very much on their own….
@ Lucifer – You pigeon hole me by claiming that “people like me” concern you because we are only focussed on gameplay. That’s just a total misrepresentation of my views, and it sets up a picture of things in which there are “people like me” and “people like you.” The thing is though that 95% or more of the people who play PES would agree with me (gameplay is priority but not everything of course), so what I’m suggesting is that since you have such a different view, maybe you should try not to argue it (by expressing “concern” about others’ views when you are in such a small minority). Anyway, I shared my view so that others can see a counterpoint to your view (if I didn’t say it, perhaps someone else would have), but honestly I don’t think I even needed to, and I admit I should have just let you go on your rant and not interject. As I said though, if I didn’t, then I feel like there would be a lack of balance. Bringing other websites into the mix is ridiculous by the way. I’m not a super hero and I’m not a saviour, and believe it or not if there are overly positive views being expressed then I may very well step in, if they are way out to lunch, but I don’t have to justify the fact that I only visit this website (primarily). Anyway, if you can’t take the criticism, then that’s your problem. I will try not to say anything in response to your future posts, but now at least you know that some of the things you are saying sound really narrow minded to at least one person – me. If I didn’t say these things you would never get that message – that it seems (at least to me) like you are missing the big picture.
PS – The misrepresentation of facts, for example, is that you “disagree” that BAL and MLO are not major innovations. Maybe you haven’t spent time with these modes, but they have, factually, changed the way the majority of PES fans play the game. They are both hugely popular, and innovative because, for example, nothing like BAL had ever been done before in recent history in sports gaming. Now look at how that one innovation has changed the landscape? Almost all of EA’s games have a mode like that now, and it is something that a lot of PES fans play religiously. Just because YOU don’t play it doesn’t mean it isn’t a huge innovation.
Your being extremely petty here on a remark that was made almost two weeks ago and which you already at the time responded to favourably saying “good on me…” for realising we were different on that point… I feel like I’m in a made up argument or I’m talking to a different Dave O for the past two days here
The point is gameplay is the main thing for you like many fans as you have stated yourself I was merely stating my fear that main focus by a certain group constantly on game play can be ultimately damaging to the series.
95% or more hey? I’m so dubious these days about statistics
I quote Mark Twain “Lies, Damned lies and Statistics”
I’m not so sure anymore that I’m so much the minority I do question exactly who is been asked in these statistics? Nevertheless whether I’m a minority or not it should not have and will not have any bearing on me giving my honest view and if that means slightly putting out a majority which you enjoy well so be it!
As for balance I think you put much more importance and impact on my posts and views then there truly is lol Its like you had to jump in quickly to eliminate the threat I somehow caused by sharing my view….Ultimately I think the Pesgaming site, and the fans can handle one person’s opposing view without getting their knickers in a twist about whether I’m being overly balanced or not. In saying that I personally do think I was balanced but hey thats your view I have mine
As for ‘missing the big Picture’ which one is that? the one that I’m in a minority and should word my posts appropiately to reflect that? (I just can’t see myself ever doing that) Or the one where you think I’m being unbalanced or unfair on Konami? (which IMO just plain isn’t true)
I actually have spent time with both modes but like I said earlier they didn’t excite me near as much as the Master League did which I did find when introduced innovative. MLO for me was just really moving on from the Master League and making it online yes they had to alter certain things to make it work but its essentially just making it online which is an avenue that most single player games go into of course its a good edition for the game I just don’t see it as particularly innovative
The BAL example you stated is not accurate FIFA 2008′s version ‘Be a Pro’ was released in 2007 at the same time as Konami’s J-League Winning Eleven 2007 Club Championship’s version ‘Fantasista’ give or take a month we crazily by Konami didn’t get BAL on PES until a year later
Listen I’m not saying BAL isn’t a good addition it clearly is, I just don’t see it as overly innovative one but instead like MLO more of a natural step, ….modes and directions that you could predict a few years ago that they were heading in, …..
Actually EA stole the idea from J league, which was released earlier. Pretty much everyone knows that. As for why my attitude has changed, well, simple, your posts on the same thing over and over again have begun to rub me the wrong way because of the single mindedness and repetition. That’s all.
One month earlier?… I know FIFA copied alot from Konami but I think this may be stretching the limits of how quickly EA can implement a whole new mode.
As for rubbing you up the wrong way….do yourself a favour….and don’t read my posts if they annoy you so much
Hmm, well, the general consensus is that EA stole the idea, but you may be right, maybe they both had the idea at almost exactly the same time (which is fishy, mind you). Either way, my issue is that you are willing to give Konami no credit for innovation, and have an apparent total lack of faith in them. If so, why are you here? Personally I think they deserve more credit than they are given, and that a lot of people who are generally negative to an extreme are simply not willing to accept that they have done a lot of good things and that they really do want to make the game perfect. Again, I believe that creating a football game it’s not as easy as it may seem from the comfort of your armchair and that in the end there are always going to be some people who are impossible to please. This is a good example actually, because 95% or more of the people who play PES put gameplay as the top priority, but if Konami actually did get it perfect, then there would be someone like you who would be entirely gutted because they didn’t include a sandbox mode. My argument is that they are on the right path in terms of trying to provide what the vast majority of gamers want, and it’s obvious that once that priority is addressed then things like sandbox mode, cut scenes, and atmosphere will be next. It’s all about priorities. That’s all I’m saying, but I’ll drop it. No worries.
Its not a matter of me not giving credit to Konami but more that I simply don’t see those modes as major innovations. Surely it’s possible to voice here your worries about the direction in which Konami are taking or not taking without been accused of being anti Konami or against PES. I’ve spent years buying and playing their games I think it earns me the right to be critical if I feel it’s deemed necessary. As for your stat of 95%, like I said earlier I’m not convinced on the numbers, I’d also like to know how many and exactly who was asked? You also have to wonder why is Jon Murphy when referring to the future talking more about sandbox type games? As for your theory about one day that Konami get the gameplay perfect and me being gutted over no sandbox……….Put plainly that will never happen and this links with my main theory that I have mentioned on here a few times….namely that Konami will ALWAYS be tweaking with gameplay….I don’t think there is ‘perfect’ when concerning gameplay and the truth is it’s not entirely Konami’s fault either as the fans all want different things in this regard. You get those that will not be happy if they take away the d-pad control those that are always mad it’s not already gone, you have those who want more freedom, more control while playing, those who like the old system, those that think it’s too fast, those that think it’s too slow, and so on. They have a bugger of time pleasing a majority on gameplay let alone pleasing everyone. If I thought for a second that they could finally create gameplay that would generally please most and they could then the following years focus more on the aesthetics of the game I’d be championing this myself but alas it’s an impossible task IMO.
So much contradiction… I give up. Seriously, I mean, FFS I never said I’m against better presentation and sandbox elements, so how could I possibly be surprised that John Murphy brings that up? It’s you who that statement is contradicting, because you have no faith in them. Regardless, the obvious fact is that game play is tops for almost every single person who plays the game, so relax on the idea of being so concerned about that a little… That’s all.
@ Dave O
COMMENT
One thing I’ll say is that when it comes to originality I have to tip my hat to Konami. They continually come out with new innovations that nobody else seems to have thought of, and they have done this while they have been essentially in a slump in terms of their gameplay/physics engine.
RESPONSE
I should and do respect your opinion in terms of you enjoying PES12 to the point that the mileage amounts to considerable hours of playing time, however, when you say that Konami has come up with “innovations” that nobody else seems to have thought of…. I just disagree with that. EA Sports took the initiative with the analog 360 degree passing system, in effect Konami’s game looked like a dinosaur, and then Konami was forced into implementing their own analog 360 degree “engineered for freedom” passing system into their game, because Konami knew that a good percentage of their hardcore fan base were playing FIFA10 primarily because the passing system seemed so innovative when compared to the “on-rails” passing system that PES10 offered….
Offering an analog 360 degree passing system, years after EA Sports offered a very similar system, should not qualify as an “innovation” under any standards, as far as I’m concerned.
COMMENT
So yeah, honestly, I don’t think anyone predicted MLO and BAL, and certainly nobody predicted they would come to be such a major part of the soccer gaming experience. That’s what I’m talking about when I say I have faith in their ability to come up with things nobody saw coming.
RESPONSE
I respect your opinion, but I disagree with you on that, I mean, MLO after YouTube was created, MLO after Facebook was created, is not what I’d describe as an “innovation”, a welcomed improvement, a great initiative, but not an “innovation” in my book.
PES at the beginning, I would describe as an innovation, because stats finally mattered, because things like “player individuality” finally mattered, and it wasn’t RPG, it wasn’t Football Manager, which in my opinion made it a great innovation…. Though unfortunately, Konami didn’t knew how to move on from the old and tested D-Pad system, didn’t knew how to reinvent their stats system so that it works with analog control, which really, is their story as far as the PS3 is concerned, hopefully (and I believe they will) Konami will re-establish themselves as the top game for hardcore football fans once the PS4 comes out, because by then I believe that Konami should have an innovative stats system that makes proper use of analog control.
COMMENT
As for innovations, I was talking more about BAL and ML, but also consider this first touch idea… It’s a great idea IMO, and again, it’s not something I have heard anyone on this forum or any other suggest in the past.
RESPONSE
I have talked about “movement within space” which (and I thought this was self-explanatory) does covers first touch and just about everything that involves touching the ball. So when you say that “nobody on this forum” suggested the idea, is just unintentionally false, seeing how I have talked about every aspect of dribbling many times, though instead of talking specifically about “first touch” as an additional gimmick to be added to the game, I simply describe it as the non-gimmick “movement within space” which would not only make it possible to have an awesome first touch system, but would also make it possible to have precision dribbling touches as well as precision standing tackles, etc.
I say unintentionally false, because I never specified “first touch”, and thus it’s understandable that you would believe that nobody on this forum mentioned the idea of a more elaborate first touch system; I agree with you that this first touch gimmick could be a great addition to the PES franchise, certainly sounds promising, though again I do not consider it an “innovation” because it is a gimmick in my book, could be a great gimmick that will greatly improve the experience, but at the end of the day an addition which will simply and perhaps elegantly hide the deficiencies of the game, but will not fix the deficiencies of the game. I guess this is where opinion should be respected, as I can certainly see why some people would consider it an “innovation”, but to me adding a first touch feature without drastically changing the pre-existing dribbling system is like adding twitter to a decade old forum.
@ Lucifer666
COMMENT
As for ‘missing the big Picture’ which one is that? the one that I’m in a minority and should word my posts appropiately to reflect that? (I just can’t see myself ever doing that) Or the one where you think I’m being unbalanced or unfair on Konami? (which IMO just plain isn’t true)
RESPONSE
I don’t think that reflecting that you are in a minority is of great importance, however, I believe that considering the facts before delivering your argument, is extremely important…. I mean, if you consider the fact that the Konami team is considerably smaller than EA Sports, if you consider the fact that FIFA12 outsold PES12 by a ratio of 25 to 1, then perhaps gameplay aimed specifically at the hardcore market should be a priority over a time-consuming sandbox concept?
The way I understand it, the “big picture” is greatly influenced by the corporation that owns the product, which is why I think you are missing the big picture, because in my eyes, you are overlooking facts which are of extreme importance to the direction of PES.
@ Amateur
Respectfully Amateur I don’t understand your stance on this, there are loads of smaller game companies in every genre able to compete with bigger rivals out there I’d get you more if Konami had never been able to compete with EA but as we know not only have they competed successfully in the past they have also on most occassions blown them out of the park so I can’t see why they can’t at least compete now? I don’t comprehend how Konami being a smaller company today when they were a small company back ten years ago has any bearing on things?. Yes okay I concede a sandbox intergration would cost more money and time (though IMO it would totally pay off for them) but other things I’m saying like commentary, like the simple aesthetics of the game..these things don’t cost huge amounts of money and they still don’t touch them to get them up to a Fifa standard?
@ Amateur – I see what you are saying, but try to take what I’m saying in context. I’m just saying that a lot of people give Konami zero credit, but from my perspective when they came out with BAL it entirely changed the way I play the game and doubled the longevity. To me that was cool. I mean, I’m someone who can no longer play footy anymore due to injuries, and being able to play BAL in first person perspective brought out so much of what it’s really like to play the game, that I have to personally say it was an innovation (hey, nobody was asking for it, and it has become a hugely popular mode, what else do you want?). Whether EA came up with it at the same time as well is a mute point because the point I’m making is that Konami have created new modes and implemented them successfully in the not to distant past, that’s all I’m saying.
As for MLO… Three years after implementing BAL, they have again totally changed the way I play PES! MLO is now the main mode I play and I could never go back. Now, I guess you could say that this is only my personal experience, but damn it, there are so many people who play these two modes that I have to contend with that. Sure, MLO was predictable, but the best ideas aren’t always totally out of left field. I am saying, however, that when they implemented MLO it wasn’t in response to the fan base raging about the fact we didn’t have an online league. In other words, Konami can think for themselves and please the fan base by giving them what they didn’t even know they wanted.
Bottom line, they have come out with two totally new ways to play the game, and they both really add to the experience. Try to separate your personal opinion from the facts. Just because you don’t appreciate these two modes doesn’t mean they aren’t innovations. Innovations are new ideas which totally change the gameplay experience in a way that is positive for the majority of gamers. Simple.
As for first touch, okay, maybe that was a bad example… I’m just saying that it’s another small example of something that is going to please a lot of fans but which everyone in the community wasn’t harping about. Sure there are a few who wanted it but I’m just saying that the fan base seem to me to be continually negative, but the best ideas that these same negative fans have over and over again is “fix the nets.” LOL.
fjfhj