We’ve hit just over 100 votes for the current poll on cheating. So thank you to those who made the effort to vote.
However I think we need more votes before I can present this to Konami.
Dave O made a very valid point about clarifying the term “cheating”. He specified several clear definitions of cheating which I think need to be explored by us:
Exploiters: players who make the same runs over and over with superstar players to score cheap goals.
The problem here is fundamentally that it’s a tough call to define exploitation when people are playing the game, and performing actions which the game engine itself allows. It’s one thing where games are modded or hacked to allow cheats, but this isn’t the case with PES. People push the game’s AI and discover methods to beat the AI at it’s own game. But the real issue with exploiters is that we don’t have the control over players to be able to combat these set routines effectively. If there was true 100% control over players, no invisible barriers, then it should be harder to carry out these types of exploits.
If Konami are to be believed, PES 2013 will combat this issue at the most fundamental level. We should have sufficient control to stop these types of exploits.
Cheap goals could be a separate category of it’s own, given their nature.
Should people be penalised for scoring legitimately poor goals? This is more of a moral issue, given that for many people, it’s the result that counts, not how you play. In many ways this mirrors real life on many fronts. People are lazy by nature, and if there’s an easy way out, most of us would take it. But in terms of PES, it does ruin the competition of playing against other people. But the current phenomenon of trophies/achievements is incredibly popular. People are mesmerised by the concept and love to show off their virtual worth. Each to his own really!
This is where playing against strangers is a big gamble. Joining communities of like minded players seems to be the only way to know you’ll get proper pleasure from playing online.
Disconnecting: people who can’t take getting beaten/want to preserve their pristine online record.
This is the most contentious of cheating methods for me, as it can be a case of interpretation. We have the more usual quitters who can’t take the pressure of being outclassed and outscored. There are those who use the exploit to wrongfully gain a win, thus improving their record and status. And then there are those like Dave O who see quitting as a way of protesting against cheats. I sympathise with Dave O on this one.
You could have a case where someone is “legitimately” scoring a cheap goal (bear with me on this one), and find their opponent has quit. The player that scored a cheap goal could have a case for complaint, since they played within the bounds of the game. Once again this becomes a moral issue for the quitter, who’d rather stop playing against the player, rather than continue playing a crass game. What this highlights is a need to be able to protest about the player playing cheap football, and to abort the game on that basis. This is something that realistically can’t be done. The number of people who’d abuse such a mechanism would be incredible.
Cheap free kick: place a player in the net and pass to him for a cheap goal. Again this is a massive flaw with the game engine and should have warranted a fix from Konami to combat blatant cheating. It falls outside of the more “normal” exploits, since the player in the net is technically offside/interfering with play and it just shouldn’t be allowed. I’d appreciate some more details from someone more familiar with this cheat too please – I haven’t played PES online since around last November, so can’t say I have much experience of it.
Cheating is a core trait in many online gamers. Unfortunately we see the true ugly nature of people when online. The comfort of relative anonymity allows many people to abuse systems – as we fully well know. Gaming sees more than it’s fair share of stupid people allowed to behave pathetically to troll others at their leisure.
To date not enough has been done by Konami to combat online cheating in it’s many forms. I asked them for details on the current online mechanisms for tackling cheating, but was never given any details. If they do ever respond, I’ll publish details. But the fact remains that many people have been turned off the online game due to cheating.
I’ve already detailed several potential ideas for combatting cheats in the past, but never got feedback on their viability. I guess they know best ultimately. But we need to see evidence of Konami working against these parasites and making the online experience enjoyable again. With so many areas for Konami to address with the game, I guess prioritisations must take place. Hence the importance we place on our polls. If we’re not showing them that we really are angry about the state of the online arena, there’s a strong case for not tackling cheating enough.
Cheats wind me up rotten, and I’m sure there are many of you like me. Please let’s get some major exposure with the poll, and get our combined points across to Konami. If there are other online cheating methods that I’m not aware of, please let me know.
Thanks for reading.
Dougiedonut
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Once again, here is a tutorial on how to cheat on the PC Platform.
This procedure lets you disconnect from the game without losing 0-3. This is how the majority of the top 100 players online play, and receive ridiculous ranking points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJU2A3B9upI&feature=related
I have been posting this link on the forums, in the comments section, written to numerous Konami support e-mails, and have made no difference.
DougieDonut, you have the means of submitting this video evidence to Konami officials.
For the sake of the game, please do!
The cheap freekick goal has started to lose it’s popularity, so you don’t see it as much, but it’s still there. Perhaps that’s because people who were using it were starting to find everyone would disconnect??? Ha ha… Probably not, but my guess is that maybe there is some way to combat it or some other reason you see less of it these days. Bottom line though is that if Konami are going to make it impossible to disconnect that would be great, but they need to also address things like this blatant cheap goal which would be so easy for them to fix. To me, the exploits are easy to fix without rebuilding the game from the ground up, but I simply haven’t been impressed with Konami’s gameplay updates/maintenance on PES 2012 (however I was impressed with 2010 and 2011′s tweaks). There were obvious things that needed fixing, and they simply didn’t touch them. Another example, which is less blatant, but in my opinion really poor gamesmanship is a player I played the other day who put the fastest players in the game on both wings and simply continued to repeatedly pass out to them and get out wide and cross. The players he used on the wings, Martins and Pato, were pushed way up the field, and when they got the ball he would just run with them in a straight line, knowing my defenders (good speed but not that good) couldn’t catch them. Neither of these players are good at crossing the ball really, but he just kept doing it again and again, with no gameplan other than this tactic, until it paid off, of course. The problem is that crossing is too effective, and requires too little skill, plus I find that even with less speedy wingers it is too easy to get a cross it. Also, the cross can be from anywhere, as long as you push the button, so a lot of goals come from crosses that are right in the corner by the corner flag. Lastly, there’s just nothing you can do as a defender in the air. It all seems so scripted and it doesn’t matter if you knew exactly what he was doing from the moment he got the ball, you simply can’t stop it. In my opinion, it’s Konami’s job to stop these sorts of things from happening. Disconnecting is a big issue too, but it’s also probably more difficult to resolve, so I say start with the game itself because it’s obvious, and it’s easy to address. Unfortunately, I’m not sure how Konami can truly resolve the disconnecting issue though. How have other online games handled it?
“How have other online games handled it?”
Other games include a waiting period, usually about a minute, to allow the opponent to reconnect in case of a genuine unintended disconnection.
If he does not connect within the given time, the player who is still in the game wins.
Of course, these games run on a dedicated server, i.e. there are 3 computers (two PCs of the players and the third computer, the game server).
PES, does not seem to run on servers (even thought the lobbies are hosted on it). Instead, it is a P2P connection, that means only 2 computers involved. The game is hosted on the faster machine, which also explains why sometimes we are able to choose the stadium etc. and sometimes not.
This gives the advantage to the host, as if he blocks his incoming connection, he can convince his PC that the other player has disconnected.
Konami should have servers that patrol disconnected games: As soon as a match is terminated due to disconnection, Konami servers should ping both PCs to check if there actually was a disconnection, and not that one of the players is intentionally blocking the other.
@ Dougiedonut
Dougie Quote:
“I guess prioritisations must take place. Hence the importance we place on our polls. If we’re not showing them that we really are angry about the state of the online arena, there’s a strong case for not tackling cheating enough”
Prioritisations must take place?? Must it?? I hate this kind of reasoning, which basically gives excuses for Konami not fully adding or improving their game. I’d understand this idea if they had a whole new story to create or had to build a new city like open world game creators have to or changed the whole concept of their game but the fact of the matter is is that the game has not ultimately changed all that much and each year mainly consists of various tweaks so much so that I question exactly what are they doing all year round? And I know many may say ‘Lucifer you don’t know how much hard work it takes to provide this product’ and thats probably a fair point because I have very little knowledge of game developers and what exactly they do however I have over the years played many varied games and so have a fair idea on what usually classifies as a good game (or at least a NEW game) and for me Konami have fallen short here. At the end of the day when you get the new edition it always feels compared to other games like very little has been done. As for the actual poll I have already voted because I understand you feel strongly about it but I repeat what I said earlier …..Konami should already well and truly know about this problem and how important it is to get their online play right. People who are able to effectively cheat or exploit the game should be the top of any game developers list when concerning their online play and so shouldn’t require a poll from here to inform them that this is a serious issue that needs addressing.
Hey DD – Does BARCA BOYS fall into the exploiters category?? Cos it takes the Pi55
If i could find the poll id vote , no link in your article that i can see.
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Is this the Dougie Donut that claimed last January “PES is alive and kicking, be aware haters!!”, then disappeared for 4 months and is now begging on a weekly basis for people to vote as hardly anyone is interested anymore?
What a joke, alive and kicking mr Donut, if PES would be, you woul’dn’t have to beg people to vote as in that case you would have had 500+ votes already.
And as lucifer said: Why a poll for this?
If there is always crowd violence at say Old Trafford (or any other stadium for that matter), does ManUtd have to do a poll asking people if they should combat that violence???
What a joke, KONAMI is lazy and doesnt care as every decent producer combats online cheating and doesn’t need a poll to convince them.
Pethatic……
@MagicaRoma
Dougie hasnt played PES since Novenmber last year??
@ Fook pes fook seabass fook barry :
He hasn’t played online since November, just offline I reckon.
It is hidden somewhere on the left in the middle of the page underneath the adds, just scroll down.
Not very prominently visible, true
That last comment was for Alan Spain btw
Ok not sure if this is frowned upon if so my apologies , but for all you guys looking for good games against non premium teams using zero pass assistance check out http://proevoeliteleagues.co.uk/projectpeel/.
does any 1 rember that cheat people did on MLO the dummy players 1 where he has a full team of dummy players there neams are dummy 1 2 3 4 5… and so on we all started off with the same default players and the cheaters didnt cus they downloaded a patch witch let them have dummy players that they could edit to look like the real ronaldo messi and so on, so they didnt have to buy the players.
i feel the hatred. it empowers me. let the hate flow.
polls will do nothing. i don’t know what the hell happened, but konami as a game company have failed for years now with nearly everything the have done. their crappy dancing games appeal only in japan. what else is it they do? that’s right–ignore their other remaining game and what the dwindling blind fans of that game beg for year after year. P2P is gaming of the 90s. konami ignores cheaters. they can’t even find a way to get rid of their stupid online region restrictions.
konami is an old company. it’s time for all of us to boycott their junk and send them into the abyss. their run was good for a while, but they’re done. they just don’t get it, and they do not listen to us.
p.s.– jon murphy doesn’t have the slightest clue. he’s the best puppet i’ve seen in a while.
i used to love MLO but as well as the usual disconnecting cheats
the thing that really grinds my gears is the way the MLO system works, they need to have a tiered system where only D1 players can get people like messi and ronaldo
to make this work they also need a better system to get promoted and relegated instead of every tuesday night judging by your points
like the barca boys it gets kind of annoying every team has ronaldo and pato ect in MLO
is there any point even having other players in it?? i would love to have to play for months to get to division one so i can buy the best players
that way you might actually try and like some of the lesser players
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