Now that we’ve had a fair while with the demo, are your opinions on it changing much?
Have you gone from negative to positive, or vice versa?
I’m playing at Top Player level to get a good feel for the game. I’m finding the AI very good at this level. I’ve had plenty of games where I’ve managed to comfortably beat the opposition, and but then once in a while getting tonked properly too.
This week I want to discuss gaming AI in PES. One of the major elements of the game is the AI system.
Programming AI for football games is probably the most challenging tasks in gaming. If you consider FPS games, there is no more intelligence in them. Most single player campaigns are completely on rails, and enemies are just cannon fodder. Occasionally you will get a game that exhibits some form of AI with enemies, but by and large, you’re on your own.
Multiplayer gaming for FPS games means quite simply that AI isn’t even required. It’s all player versus player action.
Football games on the other hand live or die around their AI. Let’s just think about what the AI has to do for a football game. There are two key areas I want to focus on:
1) team-mate AI: The movement and style of your team-mates.
We want to have the ability to not only use standard formations, but to also customise them. Within that, we expect players to overlap positions, make runs ahead of the ball, and generally cause mayhem in the opposition’s half.
2) opposition AI: The CPU controlled opposition react to your game.
We also want the CPU controlled opposition team to counter our team’s CPU controlled movements realistically but not to totally nullify our team’s players. And we also want all this done dynamically, and to not be predictable so that every single game is the same.
Can you guys even begin to imagine how the hell you nail such a concept? We complain when we see the CPU controlled team go through the motions of a counter-attack against you and score. We see it coming and are helpless because it’s “programmed” to score. We even complain that the AI controlled teams rarely pass the ball backwards, or defuse pressure. That they’re a relentless machine that we have to counter.
The big question is – how the hell do you create a system which can do all of this, and then add in the complexity of not only individual players, but teams too? You will notice that certain teams have a noticeable style of play. The fact that there are many levels of AI control routines to implement is incredible in my opinion. Name me another gaming genre that has a greater challenge.
Even with multiplayer games, since we only ever control one player, there’s so much more work to be done to give us a complete experience. When was the last time a cod game ever exhibited intelligence??
So now with that bit of background on AI, how do you feel the PES2013 demo shapes up? We expect the AI to give us a challenging game, but we must remember that playability must remain the core ethos, otherwise no-one will play the game! The game has to appeal to both newcomers as well as veterans of the series.
If you ask me, it’s a phenomenal challenge to take on, and there is so much more work to be done in the football gaming arena to reach the pinnacle of it’s genre. Both FIFA and PES are getting there in these terms. They both excell and have deficiencies in areas. The cynics amongst us will say that they do their best to drag it out over the years. The reality is that there are so many challenges to overcome.
For argument’s sake – if a truly manual passing system was introduced and it was unplayably hard, but realistic – how many people would ditch the game? So compromises are made to try to reach a middle ground. I can see how Konami must be walking a tightrope with many of these key issues. You’ve got people like me who want more manual control over play to get a more authentic experience. But just how many more people would enjoy the itricacies of having to measure every single pass, and expertly cushion every single ball when receiving it? Admittedly I think a good few people would like this sort of hardcore experience. But there are plenty more who don’t want to have to go that far.
It could be argued that the more accurate simulation could be deemed to be just plain boring, compared to a more action-oriented equivalent. Who’d rather play the ARMA shooter series over a COD-fest? These are the challenges which must be addressed by Konami. You have the hardcore element forever asking for the boundaries to be pushed out. Yet accessibility must remain, otherwise you alienate.
Take the passing assistance meter for example. In theory you can have fully assisted passing where plenty of correction takes place to intended passes. The problem here is when you have passes which are not going where you intended. Then you have the more allegedly accurate manual passing (which for me doesn’t go far enough) which is unpredictable in my books. Add to that there not being much to be gained from going manual – it’s almost worth asking – what’s the point? Why not just refine a single passing mechanism and rely on your skill with them? After all we have the whole issue of settings when in online games which causes arguments between players. In many players eyes, if you’re not passing manually then you’re not a proper player.
Where do you guys stand on the passing issue? Views and opinions welcome as usual.
Thanks for reading.
Dougiedonut
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I must be one of those cynics amongst you all Dougie because I tend to disagree with much of what you say in that post. I think I’d understand your point more if Konami were actually starting from scratch with AI but they are not they have already done the donkey work back years ago and now it seems more like fine tuning to me. I also think FPS games are a whole completely different animal like them or not, I think most good ones usually have their AI pretty much up there or at least sufficient enough to please those playing it, then if you also take into account they focus on totally new animations, new storylines, whole new environments, different weapons and their varied impacts on enemies or environments, etc….for me it looks like a lot more work goes into them than sporting games like PES at the moment as they generally look and play very very similarly to their previous installments.
@ Lucifer – I’m not going to debate this, but I just wanted to say that as far as I know the amount of changes made to the way Konami’s AI works compared to how it worked in the past is pretty massive, and I base that on the actual changes they have introduced to AI over the last 5 years or so. It’s certainly unfair to say it’s just a tweak each year. Simply put, there is a lot more going on under the hood with PES 2013 compared to PES 6. If you want to “disagree” with this, then I’m not going to argue, but again, I base this on having read about all these changes so I really find it hard to believe that these changes are all lies, and that each year they just tweak a few basics that haven’t changed since PES 6. The truth is that the AI has been stripped down and rebuilt with a lot more complexity since then.
@ Dougie – IMO the issue with manual passing isn’t just the fact that it would be difficult for the average gamer to play. To me it’s always been clear that they don’t want to go full manual because of what the effect on stats would be. Don’t you agree that it sort of ruins many of the game’s modes like ML, MLO, etc if Xavi passes the same as Adebayor? I’ve still never heard a convincing explanation for why this wouldn’t be a huge problem, so I assume Konami look at it the same way I do… Anyway, to me, that explains why they are going only half-way with the manual passing. To say it’s about hardcore versus casual gamers is maybe true to a degree, but what about those of us who are “hardcore” in terms of wanting a simulation of what it’s like to build and manage a team? You can’t accurately simulate that if stats lose their importance, because why would I pay millions more for a player to run my midfield, if anyone can pass the same way? Or am I missing something?
@ Dave
Perhaps there is a lot more going on under the hood in PES 2013 than PES 6? but what about PES 2012 or 2011 is there much more going under the hood in PES 2013 compared to them? For me…no there isn’t! In fact I see the same trend going on the whole way back with each edition being generally a tweaked version of the last game….in my opinion you can’t judge a game thats released annually by comparing it to it’s six year old ancestor you have to take it each year and see are we getting our money’s worth no matter what area of the game we are referring to. Five or six years of tweaks will make a very different game to what you started with.
I base this on after buying every single Konami game since ISS and playing them night and day I think it qualifies me to feel and say what I have done.
I’m glad we are not debating however, let’s just agree to disagree…okay?
Konami, talk is cheap, u spent 1 year on gameplay, & it thee same crap year in year out, this should av been Pes 12, but it just an upgrade, another year not buying ur poor product, until u raise ur game.
How come it never rains in a match ?
Where the Snow ?
When u play away from home in a champ league match, like in Italy, how come u never c a flair go off.
Why do u av a online game full of lag & cheaters ?
Why can I crunch some body from behind & not get book coz the advantage rule has passed.
Why do golies throw the ball like a grenade.
Why can’t u take quick throwing, etc, the list go on & on.
About the passing, for years players have been complaining about the assisted passing saying their passes dont go to their intended target and now that they have manual they wanna say that people who use the classic 3 bar system are not proper players. Give me a breeeeak. You should have the advantage over the assisted passes because you get exactly what you want and dont have to deal with the cpus decision.
I hate full manual passing because it does not feel like manual passing, it still feels assisted. I will continue to use the classic 3 bar support because I feel it allows the game to display the individuality of the players more than when what the manual passing shows.
Manual should not have been introduced, all Konami had to do was fix the original passing system. It is a game and if people want full manual they should go play footy outside.
@ Lucifer – I can see where you’re coming from, it may seem that way, but I still say they they aren’t just tweaks. I base this on having seen an interview with Konami’s lead AI software programmer for PES. It’s really in-depth stuff actually. Anyway, I’m really sick of arguing, but you have to understand that it’s your opinions that you are presenting which are the catalyst for me. It’s really hard not to post when I see something I disagree with.
@ Dave
I understand what your saying and I wish you to understand also that I feel very much in a similar boat if not more so because I come on here and see loads of people saying stuff that I feel is far too complimentary towards PES or say completely different areas within the game only need to be addressed when I feel much more needs to be done …All you can do is give your opinion which is what I have tried to do on here people either accept it or they don’t
@ Lucifer – Ok. Did you ever see that wiki page I sent you though? I just want to make sure I’ve done absolutely everything I can to share my view of things, then I’ll give up, I promise! If you looked at this and are still convinced that Konami could do so much more, then I will leave it at that for once and for all, promise with all my toes crossed… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer
Read the sections on quality of life and “crunch time”
PEACE…
Snow
In the game
Be able to mix the kits before a game
More licenses more leagues
3 kits for top teams like real Madrid ac Milan Barcelona Chelsea juventus inter arsenal Liverpool
@ Dave
Your persistent Dave I’ll give you that, I did read that article before but I read it again there now, and Yes the gaming sector is not the easiest place to work at but its like that all across the board in game production,….maybe this sounds hard but nobody is forcing them to work there, they obviously like it and want to do it enough to stick it?
I’m afraid I still feel the same way about Konami and PES after reading it though…sorry
“The big question is – how the hell do you create a system which can do all of this, and then add in the complexity of not only individual players, but teams too? You will notice that certain teams have a noticeable style of play. The fact that there are many levels of AI control routines to implement is incredible in my opinion. Name me another gaming genre that has a greater challenge.”
That is a great question that only has one simple answer…..technology!
If Konami or any gaming studio intends to improve its complexity and depth of game play, improvements through new technology is the solid answer.
To date Konami still runs on the same game engine it does on the PS2. There has been a lot of graphical enhancements but the restrictive animations and AI is evident in all its releases including the recent DEMO.
Battlefield 3 competed well with COD on its last outing because of the new Frostbite 2 engine. We saw spectacular improvements not only in the FPS of the game but also how the engine handled explosions…etc.
Konami/Seabass have been sitting on their butts refusing to change the engine in PES although they knew that the next Gen systems required this. Thus, EA’s Fifa has propelled their game into the lead by simply adding a next gen engine. Animations are a huge part of any game play and PES sucks. Fifa’s game is definately not the best…but it will surely beat the **** out of PES unless they change that stupid 16 directional game play.
correction to my last post “YOU’RE persistent Dave….”
Cool. I rest my case. LOL.
loved evo 12 even wth the flaws and from plyn the demo 13 is lookin like a massive improvement. the gamplay feels more robust shooting from distance feels much improved and the manual passin/shooting works. i for 1 am looking forward 2 release day .
EVO till i die
yer sure the demos ok but it will never but it will never be as good as ISS,ISS2,ISS3,PES,PES2,PES3,PES4,PES5,PES6,PES2007,PES2008,PES2009,PES2010,PES2011,PES2012,
but what is
For those who are complaining that there is no snow or flares in the game, I say….WHO CARES!!!??
What matters are gameplay and animations first, THEN worry about the other “luxuries”.
Pes2013 is better than its predecessor in my opinion. Much better.
Some niggly animations need to be sorted by next gen.
After playing few games, I think pes is gettin there slowly but surely.
Been playing the pc demo with the time unlock and i just can’t get enough of this game….top player on 0 bar assistance is as manual as i want it.
Personally I can’t fault pes2013 and this is the closest konami have come to emulating perfect strikers freedom of control and depth.
How people can judge a 5 min demo is beyond me,you have to experience a 25 min game to truly appreciate pes2013 as well as play on zero assistance.
Great tech does not equate to great gameplay….most high budget releases these days are devoid of soul and while having arresting tech and graphics just feel devoid of any fun.
Sure I’ve dipped into FIFA the last few years only to return to PESs more tatical gameplay.FIfa moves well,but the players still look goofy,it’s still lacks a descent replay system and the gameplay is like watching paint dry.
Even it’s most mediocre years pes this gen has still adhered better to the true fundamentals of football.
Ockrass,
Your talking out if your arse,most western developed games are just indentikit games with last gen gameplay and a next generational skin…..call of duty,battlefield are both just tired ideas re-packaged much as the majority of western releases are.
Is gaming really that much better now?,because personally after 25 years of gaming I get more enjoyment from a first party title on the wii then I do tired FPS shooters on the Xbox and ps3 because this obsession with graphics and cosmetics is killing games.
Gameplay,gameplay,gameplay,because pes2013 has this in spades!.
Sweet Disposition,
Great point, and you can apply this idea of style-over-substance to many things nowadays.
@moatstar, well siad, i totally agree with you.
The problem I see is that because FIFA has improved their gameplay so much over the last few years Konami need to focus more on the cosmetics to at least be at a similar level to the EA game as they need to attract people back and make a bit of a splash. In my opinion unless Konami completely change their gameplay and I mean significantly improve it so much that if feels almost like you’re playing a different game that’s the only way gameplay alone will be a enough and get them properly competing with FIFA again…I personally believe that will never happen which is part of the reason I want the varied presentations of the game seriously worked on.
I would like to pose a question or two…..Why do people want licenses within PES? So much so that Jon Murphy even came out blaming EA for this not happening?
Yes there could be some that just want to play with their favourite club but For me most people want them because they want the game looking more realistic…. I however believe that Konami can achieve more realism even without the licenses if they do it right and actively focus on it
@ Lucifer – I would have to agree with you on that. I don’t need more licenses. Would be nice, of course, but not a priority for me.
I agree with some of you that having licensed team is good but other aspects of the game takes higher priority. For me, the order is as follows: animations , animations, animations, gameplay, presentation, graphics then the rest. As for snow and flares ….they can both kiss my ass.
I read these comments and the main thing that is missing from all of them is wether the game is fun to play.
I use to play in online leagues with PES until it became impossible and that killed it for me, I’v tried playing Fifa every year since the last ‘fun’ one which was RTWC 1998.
For me this demo is like a breath of fresh air, normally the demos are ok to bad, but this one actually feels pretty good, and I am genuinely looking forward to the game coming out, bear in mind my son and I are revisiting PES2004 as this is great fun to play, Every Fifa from 1998 onwards is boring although great graphically, statistically with reasonable game play and great licences there not fun, there a chore to play.
As for Snow and flares,,,, not interested so they can kiss mine to.
if the editor would be more expanded i wouldn’t mind about licenses either.. just imagine that you can edit the back of the jersey, shorts, socks and sleeves.. you shouls have more jersey numbers like the premier league numbers then the game would be really good
so i ve played 30 games over the last week and when i m honest i don t see major improvement.. the defense is good.. i can defend against without problems and take the ball from the with the right timing.. on the offense when i m honest i think it got even worse.. you cann’t go past a defender who just needs to push you an you lose the ball.. when you have the chance to get past a defender there’s already the next defender waiting for you and you lose ball.. i barely get 3 goal attempts during a match and when i have the possibility to shot the ball goes right in to the hands of the goalkeeper.. they talk a lot about the improved shooting and manual shots but i can’t see it i m sorry the fifa shooting is far better.. i m gonna buy the game because i just can’t buy fifa but still i m so disappointed the game ( the match) takes place in the middle of the pitch.. you can’t score a wonderful goal from some 20-25 yards because they game just doesn’t allow you to do so..
it’ll be a curious situation when i play the next fifa demo. i’ve never purchased a fifa game, but i figured i’ve wasted enough money on the last 7 versions of pes to warrant giving fifa a shot. it’s a damn shame: pes was the real deal in 2003/2004/maybe 2005. i really don’t know why i kept buying this game, even though the pattern was becoming one of consistent disappointment. why konami do not fix what is broken we will never know. but perhaps here is a hint about this company: they are still making pes for the ps2.
i don’t want to form an opinion based on the demo, but based on past experience i have finally had enough with this piece of crap. no, no details needed. this is my overall opinion and my final decision.
full game isnt out yet, how do you know theres no flairs? From a demo? A demo that doesn’t represent the final product? c’mon son
@ Lucifer_666 and Dave O – I’m with you on the licenses. Rather than splash the cash in this area why not hire extra developers to give us more of the features the community has been asking for. Many of them aren’t even that complex. When the game comes out you then google PES 2013 patch and its a win win for everyone. Simples…
@Hiroshi11:
What you said about the game taking place in the middle of the pitch is exactly why I like this demo: far more realistic than 90 (or 10, or 15) minutes of game which consists of shooting back and forth between the final third of each team; plus, it makes those screamers all the more enjoyable when they come off.
I reserve all judgement for the game until it’s released. I want to see if any sort of screening process (or option) for online games will be implemented (don’t care to join communities or go in rooms. Too much of a hassle). I’m getting quite tired of playing the same teams, so much so that now I just select random teams myself. Randomize, F.F.S.!
Answer me this: Where is the Third Kits?
We have been asking for this for years and it hasn’t been done!
All these gameplay additions is Konamis way of brain washing everyone into believing that’s what we have been asking for!
Konami will never make this game good enough because what happens after is a 9/10 game? Nothing! They have no more ideas that’s why they give us little improvements which will probably amount to a good game after 8-10 years.
The reason why we are never satisfied is because the game is held too tightly by Konami and their way, they will never give us what we want.
We are the fools that are paying our hard earned money on unfinished games that we must download option files and stress of what BLES it is to make the game better.
What about the bull about day one DLC of all Spanish stadiums, how about just put it in the final game!!!!!!!!!!
I love pes and will continue to pull out my hair and play it…but F#*K this build up every year!
@SweetDisposition,
“…I get more enjoyment from a first party title on the wii then I do tired FPS shooters on the Xbox and ps3 because this obsession with graphics and cosmetics is killing games.”
You are entitled to your own opinion bro…but you are still are still on the other side of the fence.
Gamers like myself like to see progress. Technology enhances progress in video games. If it didn’t, we would all still be playing on the PS2.
You not liking FPS games only means you are one of the very few.
You can sit in own little prehistoric world and like all the Wii games ..doesn’t matter to me.
PES needs improvements technologically….cosmetics just don’t cut it anymore.
Also …its ****ing 2012-13…who the **** needs a game with a bunch of fake names and kits..that is sooooo 2005. Name one other popular video game that does this.
Option files my ass
Pes 12 = Pes 13 but with dlc upgrade.
right thts it ive pld the demo 4 at least 30 secs and heres my verdict. its garbage i dnt no why i bother buyin pes tbh every year 4 the last 100 years ive supported pes and all i get is crushing disapointment somtimes i like 2 just sit in the dark. this year im defo buying fifa dnt try and stop me. fuk konami fuk seabass did a mention im buying fifa this year oh and fuk seabass. id love 2 shove pes so far up seabass,s ass hed **** balls 4 a year.oh and im buyin fifa this year FUK KONAMI.
I played on Pro Level in PES 2011 most of the time ’cause the challenge was more realistic, In Top Player it was like a ping pong buggy game. When PES 2012 came, I was so happy with the fluidity of the game being better than it predecessor. But then came the “programmed” moments which I call scripting and ruined the all experience. The problem with that moment which is “programmed” to do this or that is so readable that you can just see the end outcome, and for sure you can try your best to counter it, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but the thing is you are just tired of going through the same experience over and over again and it becomes so frustrating. My experience in PES 2011 was that for the CPU to win it didn’t have to rely always on cheat codes, but mostly on your mistakes, but PES 2012 now started to use your teammates AI players to make mistakes for you like a player just leaving a defending position for no reason to leave space that allow the CPU to score, if I had control of that player I wasn’t just gonna step aside and leave space isn’t it? And when you want to gain control of that player it already too late (player switching issues). So now comes the PES 2013 demo, new improved gameplay with all the good things that I’m enjoying, but then again the annoying script of PES 2012 which I just tried to give one or two examples are back. I’m not saying it difficult to beat the CPU or the CPU shouldn’t beat me, but what I’m saying is playing a game which gives you instant that you have seen before (deja vu) and tried to stop it but didn’t work comes again, and again, and again, once that script is loaded there is no way to stop it, of course you can try your luck to stop them, but did I buy the game to enjoy and have a good time and bad time or just buying a game that frustrate you over and over again because it lakes balanced and fair AI? PES plays these days like, when the humain team score, the CPU team must score at all cost, yes if the AI is smart enough to outplay me but not take control of my team and make it weak while I’m trying so hard to be strong and maintain that lead. PES 2011 wasn’t like this, I remember unforgettable nights where I could just lose a game and say : the better team won, I wasn’t good enough. But those days are gone, when I lose in PES 2012/PES 2013 demo on Higher Level, 9 out of ten was an experience that I can’t give credit to the winner.
So to sum up, with these demo I’m just playing on Regular level to just enjoy the new tricks and twists while waiting to play it with humans (At least I can really say the luckiest team won or my opponent was just too good). I’ll sure buy the game because in my honest opinion, nothing comes close to PES. But I just hope I could live the old PES 2011 days when I even missed a deadline at school because of that bloody game (by the way, I was lucky my calling in sick reason worked with my lecturer). All I want is less scripting, less programmed event that the CPU always get advantages of to score, it’s challenging to work out the AI, but at least make them try hard to score and not being help by my teammate AI players or the famous switching bug.
Pingback: allsoccer-football.com » Blog Archive » PES Matters 7th August 2012
@Ockrass
Sorry to be nitpicky, but, it makes no sense to enhance progress, at least in the context of your argument. To enhance something is quite similar to progressing something (forwarding a forward movement?). I believe it’s forward thinking that brings progress, anyway, and not technology; you need the mind, after all. Maybe that’s what you meant, with the whole forward thinking brings technology thing.
Additionally, does it really matter, when you get down to it, if another game does it? the whole name and kit thing? I guess it does if you’re looking at it from a business/market share perspective, but from a consumer’s perspective?
To have your own style is to work around what you cannot do well, really, or what is you’re not good at, and in PES’ case, I believe this would be to focus on something else instead of names and kits to add to the “experience” of their game, and rely on the meat and potatoes of what it is to have fun. You’ve gotta find your niche, that’s all, but it seems you don’t care about that, which is fine.
NEW BIG PROBLEM IN THE GAME PLAYER ID SO HERE GOES…. PLAYER ID FOWARD AGINST NO PLAYER ID DEFENDER OPPS PLAYER ID FOWARD GOES PAST HIM SO EASY HAHAHA KUNTNAMI U DID IT AGAIN TUT TUT MLO GONNA B A BARCA REAL PLAYERS FEST!! OH AND ANY 1 SAYS THIS GAME IS GONNA B GOOD BY PLAYIN THE DEMO I GOTTA LAUGH AT THEM WHEN HAS THE DEMO EVER PLAYED LIKE THE REAL GAME NEVER IN ANY YEAR
i’m normally a PS3 player, but I read all this stuff about the PC patches, that I decided to download the PC demo, downloaded the patches to unlock teams, along with settings, and I must say it is pretty awesome….5min on the consoles is just not enough time to feel the game out completely…playin chealsea vs man u or dortmund vs bayern feels niceeee !!! …shooting is awesome, cant wait for this game to come outt…
PLAYER ID BULL****E SHOOTING BULL****E CROSSING BULL****E PASSING BULL****E MANUAL CONTROL BULL****E AND IF U THINK THE DEMO IS GONNA BE ANYTHING LIKE THE FULL GAME THINK AGAIN BECAUSE PES 13 IS ACTUALLY GONNA BE A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER AND GUESS WHAT ITS GONNA BE BULL****E IT WILL NEVER BEAT GLOOM ON THE AMIGA SO I DONT NO WHY THEY EVEN BOTHER MY NEXT POST IS GOING TO BE A 15 PAGE DOSSIER TELLING EVERYONE WHY THERE NOT ALLOWED TO GET ANY ENJOYMENT OUT OF ANY PES GAME AS FOR PES 13 U GUESSED IT BULL****E
DID I MENTION IM BUYING FIFA IN FACT FUK IT IM JUST GONNA PLAY KICK OF 1 YUP NOT EVEN 2 CAUSE THATS BULL****E NO WAIT ISS64 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
DougiedonutQ
QUOTE
For argument’s sake – if a truly manual passing system was introduced and it was unplayably hard, but realistic – how many people would ditch the game?
RESPONSE
The whole notion of “manual passing” is a misconception, passing can be either “manual” or “assisted” irrespective of how advanced the passing system is. The problem with the current “manual passing” system is that it is not actually manual, because unfortunately the system of the game itself is not advanced enough to offer manual control: passing, dribbling, shooting, and just about every single element of the game, is based on a D-PAD SYSTEM, and since the system itself is a D-PAD SYSTEM, the video game cannot actually offer “manual control” and furthermore will always favor the “assisted” settings over the “manual” settings.
If a “truly manual passing” was introduced and it was unplayably hard?
I think that is impossible…. Two reasons,
1st — “truly manual” passing is not possible if the system or foundation of the game is a D-PAD system, you cannot have a “manual” system because the D-Pad cannot be directed slightly nor as far as it can go nor in between, within one specific direction, the D-Pad can only be directed towards the south, not slightly towards the south, not as far towards the south as it can go, and not in between. With both PES13 and FIFA13, the left analog stick is, in function, a 360 DEGREE D-PAD, it offers the range of directions that the analog has to offer, but it doesn’t offer the range of depth within the direction that the analog has to offer, and for that reason, it cannot be “manual” because the technical deficiencies of the D-Pad makes it impossible (this also being the reason why the game favors “assisted” passing over “manual” passing).
2nd — if the D-PAD SYSTEM is finally upgraded to an ANALOG SYSTEM, then the “manual passing” will not be unplayably hard, it will be very different than what we currently have, but it would not be unplayaby hard, and like the current (twenty years old?!) system it would offer various levels of assistance.
Though having said that, something that might frustrate some fans, even if these fans enjoy the game, is that an ANALOG SYSTEM will always favor “manual” settings over “assisted” settings (the very same way that a D-PAD SYSTEM will always favor “assisted” settings over “manual” settings), which might frustrate them when they find out that they cannot beat the players who play with zero assistance.
But other than that, I don’t see any other reason that can lead to people ditching the game, as a matter of fact, I think that “real manual passing” will only lead to more fans joining in.
just because people have been playing this game for years, dont mean we all play on top player, i’ve been playing since ps2 days, and still have close games on reg level, on speed +2 so there….dont want manuel anything.
I want to play against other people on line with the same controls, ie If I have no assist, no cursor auto change,no AI assists is it fair that I play someone who is on full Automatic? That person could be pointing their controller at my players for each pass or out of touch and the ball would go to their player.
I don’t want to play full assist on line but if I play full manual then i’m getting whipped.
Is there an option on PES2012 to play with similar controls to your opponent?
I play with the passing on 3bars and I think its great., its just like the passin on PES11.
2 bars is the best, assisted shooting, everything else turn off, now u can play total football, no point avin it 0 bars, 2 many 1mm passes on that setting.
Zero bars. Zero help. Period.
i want to play the game now in pes 2011 please masage to leon kibet
konami cup ok
plesea