PES Off!! 22nd January 2009
Posted by dougiedonut in PES Off!! on Thu 22 Jan
I’d like to start this week’s column off with a big thank you to contributors such as Simon McDermott, Taylan , Jimmy, Amateur and toomerj in particular (as well as everyone else who contributes positively to the site) for their ideas on what they would like to see from the PES series looking forward.
I think that PES isn’t going to have an easy ride trying to mimick everything that FIFA has to offer, but would do well to do the things it does better. What I mean is that PES would benefit from ingame improvements, rather than trying to focus on the overall football package, which is where FIFA’s strengths are.
One of the comments from last week’s post, which was written by Amateur was:
“If the Gameplay is to improve for the better, Konami will have to introduce more Specific settings for each team’s Tactical System. And I do mean “Specific and Detailed”.. we should have the option of choosing how we want Each and every single player in our team to move in each and every different situation.
Defenders, Midfielders, and Forwards, the whole team. How do you want them to move when the AMF is holding the ball, which type of tactical runs you’d like from your forwards, etc, etc..”
This was something which really struck a chord with me personally. Growing up I’ve played many different football titles which have all had some sort of element which you like. There was one Sega Megadrive football game which unfortunately I can’t remember the title of. It wasn’t a particularly good football game, but one element which really stood out for me was the ability to define where players should be when the ball was in certain areas of the pitch.
Basically the pitch was split up into 9 areas, and you got to define tactics which allowed you to instruct players where to move, whenever the ball was in a certain area. So if the ball was out on the right wing of your opponent’s half, as you were attacking, you could decide where each outfield player on your team should be. I don’t remember if it worked particularly well or not, but the crux of the point is that such detailed level of tactics were there to be user defined. I’d like PES to give us the ability to fine tune our own individual tactics in games. I’d like to see more variations in types of teams that you play against.
We can’t just have a single style of play against every single team going. We should know that the approach against Stoke is going to be very different from playing against Arsenal. We should have to decide on which players at our disposal may be more effective against opponents. Just having different teams playing the same way, but varying in their ability to carry out the system is not enough.
Since FIFA has the licensing for the main leagues around Europe, PES should try to get top teams from South America and Asia for example available for all. J League teams would be superb to play against, since most people outside of Asia aren’t all that familiar with them. Their styles of play, and types of players should mean that we get more clashes of footballing styles to combat against.
I’d be interested in people’s thoughts on us having more teams from Asia and Latin America in PES. I can see a world club championship mode with many of these top teams fighting it out as a big plus – what do you guys think?
Finally, I was approached some time ago (apologies to Dennis – sorry it’s taken me so long to get round to doing this) by Clanbase to promote the addition of PES2009 (for both the Xbox 360 and the PS3). If you go to the following address, you can get more info on what Clanbase is all about:
http://clanbase.ggl.com/welcome.php?
They also cover various other games, so do get a look into see what takes your fancy. Please do take a look at what they are offering there, that would be much appreciated.
Thanks for reading
Dougiedonut
I like the idea of licensed Asia & South America teams but why not have the second tier of English, French, Spanish etc and just have them with no licence like with most Premier teams now? People out there love to edit so why not have the base to do it?
Would also make the ML more interesting!! Thoughts?
I agree with you. It really wouldn’t take that much effort to add unlicensed Championship sides and it would def make the ML more authentic.
I think Konami really need to spend a lot of time improving ML this year if I’m honest. I still love it but it seems like it could be so much deeper if just a little effort was put in!
ooo a Blade agreeing with a owl! but it does make alot of sence though! Does anyone else doing a ML able to loan players for 1 point even though they are really good and my team isn’t?
Is it the level of trans i have set?
A Blade an an owl agreeing never makes sense!!! That’s very worrying!
Think the loan system is a joke to be honest. I’ve heard people say they’ve managed to get Kaka, Ronaldinho, etc on loan which is just stupid. I only go for realistic loans eg Nani, Abate etc Loan system def needs looking at for PES 2010!
We need more teams, and they should let us do the editing.
if PES2010 + have every single team license, I WILL QUIT buying PES.
Editing teams your own way, players, etc it makes PES feel your own game.
PES should let the players edit a little bit more, just like the PC version.
I want my team colors on my home stadium, I would like to have couple EDIT ADDBOARDS, ONE CUSTOM BALL, TV SCORE BOARD. ETC.
When FIFA Boys seen PES2009 they wish they can have chants,their face on the game, etc.
PES IS MY GAME!
I would like to see Konami incorporate the Primera División of Argentina into PES. FIFA has never offered it, I really believe it would be a steal for Konami to grab one of the best leagues in the world for their own exclusive use. There is so much young talent that comes out of this league, it would be a great addition for incorporation into Master League.
Another thought would be to include enough CONMEBOL clubs so that there could be an official Copa Libertadores. This is a great tournament.
Why Konami doesn’t counter FIFA by grabbing the leagues, and clubs that FIFA doesn’t include baffles me to a degree.
These are just a couple of thoughts…
I think the more unliecened teams the better as peolpe can edit them. Maybe the ability to mix OF but i doubt that can happen!
The loans are silly! first season i got realistic one like ramsay and silva brothers from man U. went for a sneaky 1 point bid for Ronaldo and got him then kaka & henry. Makes the game less fun!
But the ML should have a revamp more leagues more comps i.e putting chams league in!
Defo should be championship teams in it I heard FIFA has but never played it.
Top of the league blades and owls :)
The Megadrive game you are referring is “Kick Off” which was also on Kevin Keegans Player Manager Game.
The tactics system was excellent.
I agree with having latin american leagues. It wouldn’t hurt anybody to have the argentine, mexican and brasilian leagues for example. Come on Konami make us proud once again.
im up for more unlicensed leagues at least, they dont need any kind of rights (or copyright) to add them, just the will to do it.
Good point about more teams in the next PES. I would go even further and say that they include leagues from outside of the premier football countries such as: Asia, SthAmerica, Australia, Netherlands, MExico etc…
I wouldn’t think it would cost that much to get these leagues (or even teams if FIFA has the exclusive licenses to them). Even say, iclude the top 2 0r 3 from each league to have a world club championship. It might widen the appeal of PES to include this as people may want to play with their local leagues.
“Basically the pitch was split up into 9 areas, and you got to define tactics which allowed you to instruct players where to move, whenever the ball was in a certain area.”
Yes, as someone mentioned in earlier post, that game was kick off by Anco. It was far suprior in terms of designing your own tactics. The 9 square field gave you total control of players on pitch. I hope PES will implment something similar in 2010
I was really let down by ML this year, I mean you have 32 teams in Divison 1 and 2 yet you still have to play in a cup with only 20 teams, you still only have 4 differant leauges so ML Champions leauge ends up the same every year. were supposed to be next gen here yet Konami didn’t even bother to put in Championship, Leauge 1 & 2 when blu ray has the capability to do so, no Champions Leauge in ML or BAL either.
That’s the sort of thing that really annoys me Rocket! How hard would it be for Konami to make the Div 1 cup also include the Div 2 teams so it’s more like the FA Cup. It just seems to show lazyness on their part having no new features in ML. :(
Good column DD – Putting J-league, South American and North American teams in Pes 2010 would be a great idea, I can’t understand why Konami haven’t done this already. I also agree with post one, that Konami should add the lower divisions from all major European leagues just under different names; so many people enjoy editing the current teams and this would please football gaming fans who support lower-tier clubs.
I agree with Amateur and DD that Konami need to focus all of their attention on the Pes 2010 games engine. Forget about all the flashy aesthetics that EA use in Fifa and just concentrate on the ‘on-the-field action.’
Konami’s priority in improving has to be:
incorporating ‘16 or more way D-pad movement.’
Greatly increasing player animations.
Realistic collision models – players tussling with each other for the ball. breath coming out of the players mouth when cold ( where did that disappear too in the next gen versions ), more tackle animations, running animations, shooting animations etc. players must look like they are tussling with one another and not just make some weird grunting noise, while the ball bounces in between them like its hitting two lumps of wood ( and sounds like its hitting a cardboard box ).
Far more shooting angles, with random chances of scoring from difficult angles – rather than shots missing or hitting the target every-time from the same position.
Pitches that are the right size and angled to the correct perspective. Pitch ware, weather conditions such as snow, weather conditions shown pre-match like they are in the PS2 version.
Players must act like they are professional ‘world class’ footballers; they should know what position to be in and where to run. Defenders should know who their marking and where they should be placed at corners, at the moment this is one ‘big jumbled mess!’
With greater depth of player-movement by increasing the D-pad beyond 8-way movement; players will make more use of the pitch, the space and will move realistically ‘on the pitch’ rather than looking like they are on rails ( in-fact the better graphics and HD is what is showing the games engine up as being dated ).
Add what I have just mentioned with Amateurs increased player attribute statistics, which will allow you to better define players differences. This would mean that you could add characteristics that are exclusive to that player, and would see Ronaldo hitting free-kicks like Ronaldo, Carrick passing like Carrick, Berbatov’s ‘deft-of-touch’ and sublime flicks etc.
I remember one of the greatest things about Pes2 was when you took a corner or free kick with Beckham, it curled and looked ‘exactly’ like a Beckham kick; they got his technique down to a tee ( how did they do this? They did it with correct player attributes and a games engine which could accurately represent them!). Also add Amateurs idea of ‘in depth’ ‘player-movement-tactics,’ where you would be able to choose the type of positions your players take up and the type of runs they make.
This is what Konami ‘MUST’ do to fix their games engine. Failure to add any of of the aforementioned changes will see game set and match to EA.
Add Championship teams
why does everyone want to see such sub-standard teams there are about 10 teams on the pes 2009 that you can edit to your liking plus u can change any team that isnt licenced. if konami ere to impliment every change that everyone wanted, someone would still find something to moan about, who cares if there is only one colour green for the pitch, any player in the world would love to play on that kind of pitch week in week out. is anyone really bothered that you cant see players breath when its cold? what is important is gameplay and this game is 10/10 for that. if they made it perfect that would be the end of the francise, because there would be no direction to tsake it in. there would only be roster updates, and come on there are plenty of those on the internet so you can find an option file that has what you want on it
Do you know you can decide two directions to go for each player when attacking? And also have 4 levels of defence for each single player when defending? And you can also choose 3 players to go to attack to take corners and free kicks? I do all that on PES 2009! And my team plays exactly like I want, it feels really great! I also use four different tactics within the match as pressing, change sides, couter attack, etc… You should try this too, then you can have an informed opinion about the game, don’t you agreed?
was the game your trying to think of called “pele” i had it and i remember the position settings your talking about.
instead of paying for licenses they should put the money into a new engine, more staff which will help the gameplay thats what matters who cares about playing with teams u have never heard or seen off
why is this website still going?
pro was a sinking ship when 08 came out, now its officially subk after 09, konami know this and are unwilling to make the game better, do you not think that theydon’t know whats wrong with the game? of course they do, they just choose not to fix it.
pleas end this website
@ dougiedonut — and every one else willing to listen to new ideas and concepts.
Thanks for the Recognition DD, really appreciate that at least some people do bother and read my long posts.
I couldn’t agree more about “benefit from ingame improvements, rather than trying to focus on the overall football package, which is where FIFA’s strengths are”.
As for your question about “where they’d like to see PES 5 or 10 years from now” ??
I think that’s a great idea-starter, which is something many people in this forums try to avoid. They prefer to keep posting the same pointless things time and time again, they don’t like spending Time THINKING.
They avoid it, and try to argue against your opinion without actually understanding your opinion. Which is really unfortunate, as we have enough of them as it is.
Instead of seeing the full picture, most of us fans prefer to simply state the obvious, join the group and say:
- “PES needs better animations and more directions”.
- “The Online Play doesn’t works properly”.
- “The Master League needs to be updated”
- “It needs New Modes and more Licenses”
- “11 vs 11, like FIFA”
They simply say the obvious things that everybody knows, but whenever they see or read a long post that deserves Thinking -they- choose to avoid it.
Perfect online play, better animations, more movement directions, more licenses, Champions League Mode, 11 vs 11 play, updated master league, etc, etc.. PES09 could have all of that and it would still be well out of date.
We should all know by now that PES and FIFA are both outdated. And no “new modes” are going to change that FACT.
Anyways, I took your invitation about expressing where I’d like to see PES in 5 years or so. And this lead me to ask myself — WHY is it that the PES series hasn’t really Evolved since PES5??
This is Why I came up with the thing about the “Tactical System” and the “Tactical Plays”. Which I honestly think will be necessary IF the gameplay is to improve for the better.
Now to the point I wanted to post this time, it’s about the “momentum shifts” in a Football Sim.
I’ve played PES for years now, and there’s Cheating in all of them. It’s like some games are “Scripted” to a certain extent.
Those “lucky” goals that the COM seems to score countless of times. Goals product of GK spills, free-kicks, corner kicks, and penalties.
And then there’s the Super-Com mode, a Mode in which the COM is always faster and stronger than you regardless of the distance. At times you can even slide with a perfect tackle, and for some reason, the ball takes an unnatural effect and falls right back at the COM’s feet.
This is when I notice a difference in momentum, when the COM suddenly becomes significantly faster and stronger than me, I know the momentum is against me.
I think the “momentum” Concept needs to improve, because it’s Limiting the development of the PES series. It’s one of the key flaws holding PES back.
The momentum changes regardless of Logical things such as possession or player Stats. There doesn’t seems to be any Reason for the sudden changes in momentum.
I think Konami haves to revolutionize their game in this aspect, they need to have an unbiased concept, so that they can have a Reason behind every AI-Controlled shift in momentum.
This will require New Concepts such as an in-game “Confidence Level Gauge”. And also New Stats such as “Mentality” and “Consistency”.
A system consisting of 2 Stats and a “Confidence Level Gauge”. Both Stats Dictating the “momentum shifts” on the pitch -via- the Confidence Level Gauge.
The Confidence Level Gauge, to Represent each player’s Confidence or Form throughout a Match. It could go from 1% to 99%. And it would Vary depending on the Mentality and Consistency stats of each individual.
Everything from Stats to the happenings on the pitch would have an influence on the Confidence Level of each individual and team.
So that the “momentum” can be measured by an unbiased concept. Meaning that if we summed up each Individual’s Confidence Level, that would lead to the Team’s overall Confidence Level.
Meaning that the “shifts in momentum” would be in favor of the Team with the better Confidence Level, and against the team with the lower confidence level.
And considering that Football is a game of stringing a few passes together, building up play, and “eventually” coming up with the End Product.
We need to take into further consideration that variations are endless. Sometimes a Play consists of just 3 Passes, whereas other times a Play consists of 15 Passes.
We should also acknowledge that If a game has an average of 30 Plays per game between Both Teams, a Football Sim should have an average of 30 Shifts in Momentum per Match.
Meaning that each Play had a Distinct momentum. Maybe in one particular play the momentum was 70% against you and 30% in your opponent’s favor.
The momentum could keep increasing steadily for one side, or it can twist and turn for the entire 90 minutes. Maybe in one play the momentum is 30% in your favor, and if you keep building up on that for the next 5 or 10 plays, the momentum would be 70% in your favor by the 11th play.
Which would result in your team being faster and more focused than your opponents, you’d have more “luck” than your opponents. The momentum would be on your side.
This would come hand-in-hand with the “Team Chemistry” concept. It would introduce “Team Chemistry” into the game.
Because if your Attacking Midfielder doesn’t gets the ball, his confidence level will go down -and- consequently his Stats will go Down.
A player with a Low Confidence Level will also have Lower quality for some plays, because his Stats will go down momentarily, or until he starts getting himself back into the game.
So if your Defensive Midfielder is having an off-night, his Stats will go down. And probably, if the Defensive Midfielder is having a bad game, your Attacking Midfielder won’t see much of the ball. Meaning that some of your Attacking players will depend on some of your Defensive players — This is “Team Chemistry”.
And Team Chemistry isn’t just about having a star-studded team, it’s about fitting talent appropriately and balanced. In many cases quality isn’t the most important factor, most titles are decided by the Team with the best Chemistry.
Maybe the “team chemistry” concept can have more to it, but this would be a great start in my opinion. As well as it would fix the random “momentum shifts” that have become an annoyance.
oh my god mate write a book, even i have more of a life than to write the gospel on a stupid fansite
maybe if pro evo fans grew up a bit the game might grow up too
@ post 24.
I doubt this is the real McDermott talking.. if it is, I’m disappointed.
But regardless, considering that I’m not a regular cause I barely post around here anyways.. I spend less time than most of you people do in here.
The difference is that I actually make a Point, rather than stating the obvious. And I actually enjoy doing it because I’m interested in the subject.
I actually play Football, I actually have a life, and I do play PES6 or PES5 every now and then. But I’m not afraid of getting “geeky” and expressing my view on a Football Simulation.
If you or anyone else gets the impression that “I don’t have a life” I really couldn’t care less. But will say, that it is most definitely a wrong impression.
When I do take TIME of my day to post something here, I do want that post have a point, I don’t like to waste my time with pointless posts.
But like I said, my posts are long but few. Whereas most of the “regulars” around here repeat the same pointless things time and time again. When you think about it, you guys spend more time in here posting.
Quantity and Quality, different things my friend.
Все замечательно: и по стилю изложения, и по содержанию. Так держать!