I finally bought PES 2012. Best. Game. Ever.

I know how to defend in the game, but its just a joke how defending has to be done on superstar.
The problem is how deeply unsatisfying the game is overall, having to double up on the attackers because the way they always want to jink past you all the time, it does become a joke when they're in the box at times.. Then at the other end the physics are completely broken which result in the least satisfying pes game when you score a goal, completely broken. I've not even got into the awful individuality in the game, everyone is God like with a glued football to their feet.
I expect them to build on 2012's shitness in 2013, but you'll realize how broke 2012 is when you play 2013.

Welbeck said:

I know how to defend in the game, but its just a joke how defending has to be done on superstar.
The problem is how deeply unsatisfying the game is overall, having to double up on the attackers because the way they always want to jink past you all the time, it does become a joke when they're in the box at times.. Then at the other end the physics are completely broken which result in the least satisfying pes game when you score a goal, completely broken. I've not even got into the awful individuality in the game, everyone is God like with a glued football to their feet.
I expect them to build on 2012's shitness in 2013, but you'll realize how broke 2012 is when you play 2013.

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Superstar is meant to be insanely difficult though. Maybe knock it down a notch so you can enjoy it rather than punishing yourself playing it on too hard a difficulty.

And as for 2013, Konami will listen to feedback from people like us, then make the game how we ask then we'll complain because it is broken, when they should have just not listened and made it how they want. Happens every year!

I would still rather play a slightly broken PES than any other competitor. Even though I don't see half the problems you mentioned. If you don't like it, that's fair enough, but you aren't going to talk me into thinking it's rubbish because I really enjoy playing it and that's all that matters really, that it's enjoyable.

I've took on board what you have said, and I've been playing it inbetween posting here, and I still can't see it. I've just won a few games, and the only time something goes wrong is when I've made a mistake, or it's stats based, which is kind of the point!

jMz said:

When I started playing PES it was called ISS. And it was on the SNES. Had every one since apart from 2010 as my 360 was dead during that period.

After a few weeks playing I still say 2012 is the best PES, and the best football game ever.

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Better than PES 6 in the old days? Welbeck may think the defending is abysmal but what about the passing? The passing system is so amateur and poorly implemented where the CPU decides the outcome and gets there a millisecond before your player? Whats up with that?

abu97 said:

Better than PES 6 in the old days? Welbeck may think the defending is abysmal but what about the passing? The passing system is so amateur and poorly implemented where the CPU decides the outcome and gets there a millisecond before your player? Whats up with that?

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You mean PES6 where every other goal was a cut in from the wing and curl into the bottom corner? PES6 was good, but in the same way that the Mark I Golf GTi was good, today it just seems dated.
What's up with the cpu beating you to the ball you mean? Maybe because super-cancel is not being used right? Do you mean on Superstar? As I haven't tried it yet and I don't have that problem on the other difficulties, unless I misplaced the pass of course. I will say though, sometimes it does pass to the wrong player, but I put that down to not finding my ideal pass assist settings, I have it on 1 notch. Or the fact I have my formation too compact, or I have maybe pressed the direction or power slightly wrong...

I just reckon you's are looking for reasons not to like it, FIFA is no better, and the defending on that IS abysmal. Along with the passing and shooting. Either that, or you's just aren't very good and are blaming the computer/game:tongue:

EDIT: Also, if everything "worked right" it would be too easy, and wouldn't reflect real football where it doesn't always go right, even for the pros.

It always comes back to someones lack of ability with PES when people are being critical of it.
I used top player and found it too easy, top player and superstar are the same shit just running at you all game. You've got terrible midfielders being able to turn into Zidane if you up the pressure.
Just because I'm complaining about the gameplay doesn't mean that I'm shit at the game.
I play (played) with no pass assist and it really can pay off with the unpredictability of the passing and it's much more satisfying when you score. I don't play the game know more but I'd challenge anyone if they think the flaws that i've mentioned is just because I'm shit at the game. I've got the PC version.

Got to side with Mak on this one. I really didn't enjoy the game physics. It makes perfect sene to make a game as challenging as possible ... but there are some serious issues. Case in point, for the AI to be able to rob your players by shoving them in the back regardless of your players body balance (and/or holding L2 to counter it) is somewhat repetitive and silly.

I would say the biggest gripe though are CPU controlled defenders on your team, often I would see them move out of position as a ball is played to which the AI would score from.

I remember one instance vividly, a friend and I decided to play ML on Superstar level, we were Fulham and against Everton we were 1-0 up and they equalised from the daftest thing I've seen in a long while. A player chips the ball forward for Everton, Hangeland is in the perfect position to jump for the ball and clear it. Instead he runs forward. Stops. The ball goes over him. Player through on goal. Scores. We watched it again and again on the replay and just scratched our heads.

If Superstar is about playing against challenging AI, it shouldn't include the AI of your own players.

For years the game has suffered in one way or another of Konami not being entirely sure the best way to create a challenging set of difficulties without either a) negating stats, b) negating response times and c) controller reading.

What I mean by controller reading is that the AI anticipates your passing by reading the input. I've tested this and its actually quite amusing as well. The top level AI difficulty works on several levels - as listed to stop you retaining the ball. Where it really falls down though is the form arrows, AI controlled players are not affected by them or stamina. If you use a fixed player as well you'll notice the AI controlled players you are uing are responding at 'normal' and not Superstar.

I'm looking forward to PES203, don't get me wrong but I suspect we'll have the same coding. In pretty much any gaming arena tweaking code to be more aggressive makes for a more challenging and enjoyable product, however its more apparent in Sporting sims. I suspect it's just not possible at this time to create truly intelligent AI because of the complexities of football. It is after all a sport based on confidence, conditioning and discipline. Criteria that are not mathematical certainties.

Welbeck said:

It always comes back to someones lack of ability with PES when people are being critical of it.

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Yes it does.

You just need to accept it's flaws and treat them as if it were real life mistakes, they happen in football. A lot.

Just put the difficulty down and enjoy it!

It's far too easy on the lower levels. The disparity between the difficulties is a tad lazy as well.

Welbeck...

If you set up your shots and shoot with proper timing you will be more accurate.

For defending if you use the "hold up play" mechanic (R2 + X on PS3) it will help prevent dribblers from going right through you, because most of the time it triggers the CPU to slow down. Go in for a reckless tackle and you will get burned, so why keep doing it? Holding up play is key in PES 2012.

As for the CPU scoring on headers? It's true it's overdone. Before all the patching this game received I used to be able to bring my defense back to help stop it, but now on version 1.06 it's pretty ridiculous and I haven't figured out a way to counter it.

The truth is PES 2012 isn't the best game ever, nor is it the big pile of crap that some make it out to be. If you can learn to deal with it's quirks you can get some decent footie going.

blazer89 said:

If you can learn to deal with it's quirks you can get some decent footie going.

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I'm not going to go over old ground, I love football games and I've more than highlighted where the issues are. PES has always had quirks and I have long lived with them and learnt to ignore them. This goes beyond that.

If they work on the areas I mentioned previously, well there is no reason to at least not have seen an improvement on PES2013.

Sminky...

All that stuff you mentioned about CPU controlled players is true, but I've figured out that a lot of it is because the game heavily favors stats and strategy, and it doesn't quite have the animations to back it up. In other words it will sacrifice the way it looks on the field for the underlying attributes and team styles.

Thing is you can work this to your advantage too. Play to all your player's strengths and skills, play to your team's strategy, and you will see what I am talking about. You will get all those advantages the CPU gets.

In fact I just won a game by playing Stewart Downing out on the wing and using his early cross attribute. I spent much of the game firing early crosses into the box with Downing and the advantage I was receiving was pretty clear.

Sminky said:

It's far too easy on the lower levels. The disparity between the difficulties is a tad lazy as well.

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You can use game speed as a difficulty modifier. If the game is too difficult you can slow it down, which will make tackling easier, as well as setting up shots, etc.

blazer89 said:

Sminky...

All that stuff you mentioned about CPU controlled players is true, but I've figured out that a lot of it is because the game heavily favors stats and strategy, and it doesn't quite have the animations to back it up. In other words it will sacrifice the way it looks on the field for the underlying attributes and team styles.

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I agree, but I think it goes deeper than that. The AI doesn't exist yet, the difficulty on PES is response based. When it moves beyond that we'll see a different game completely. I love PES as a series, the gameplay is so much more rewarding than FIFA.

However, recently I feel they've tried to copy FIFA ... and simply its just not worked.

@blazer
I'm not looking for tips on how to play the game.

On the shooting thing you mentioned it mainly occurred when playing BAL on superstar, the shooting is so automated.
You have to admit the shooting is broke!
The amount of times your player kicks the ball when he's had a perfect run up to it and struck it cleanly, but yet it ends up trickling to the keeper.

I won't be buying this game next year if (mainly online reasons)
-you can sprint all game without ever tiring
-you can't manually adjust your players in the box when defending crosses like you could in previous pes's without your player going mental when the balls in mid flight
-The homing missile crosses
- shooting isn't fixed
-and finally one of the most important things, you should not be allowed fully automated passing online, maximum of 2 bars.

jMz, I weren't looking at PES in a way that FIFA is better. I'm just saying its not as good as you're saying it to be. Everyone has their own opinion on PES, but saying PES 2012 is the best football game for me is ridiculous. If PES 2012 is the best, then its either because it is literally groundbreaking or that football games have never produced a quality game before. Sure in PES 6 it was easy to cut back a pass and score but what about PES 2012? Most goals are either
A) Deflected goals
B) Keeper mistakes
C) Rounding the keeper and scoring

So both games goals could be given cheaply but in terms of gameplay, PES 2012 doesn't cover the main aspects. It has the idea of football in there - how your teammates react in different situations, player runs, movement every where on the pitch and anticipation of passes etc. But apart from that, everything else is just lacking.

I've mentioned passing, but what about player individuality? Every player runs the same, shoots the same, dribbles the same and there are no signature attributes in the game! FIFA is no better, as both games can't do player individuality (PES 2013 will though ) and the differences between all the players in the pitch are power, speed and strength.

Shooting is still too assisted and floaty with no settings to alter it as a lot of times in PES, so that can be named as a fault. Same for passing which is also too assisted and scripted.

There are a lot of features PES cannot implement and eventhough its core gameplay is great, PES 2012 isn't because it can't build up on it which PES 2013 will - better player individuality, better defending (more responsive with a tackle button), better whooting and passing, better touches etc.

FIFA isn't better either. Both games miss out on each other - FIFA doesn't have what PES does (AI) but PES doesn't have what FIFA does (Freedom) but FIFA covers their faults with their gloss.

I must have a different game to you lot....
When I first played it, there were things wrong, but for me the four updates fixed the issues.
abu, I have no issue with the "whooting"...
I score most of my goals from outside the box, though I have many shooting specialists in my team.

jMz said:

I must have a different game to you lot....
When I first played it, there were things wrong, but for me the four updates fixed the issues.
abu, I have no issue with the "whooting"...
I score most of my goals from outside the box, though I have many shooting specialists in my team.

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Common, where is the player individuality in the game? Your finding it a joy to play because you've got legends in your team. Play with a team like Everton and the faults become clear. Shooting outside the box is tragic - its really that wrong. No such thing of agility in the game and when ever players recieve the ball, they move in the same way - they knock it on 90 degrees. Every player moves the same, touches the ball the same, knocks it on the same.

Passing and shooting and the AI is at times horid, especially with the huge amount of scripting in the game. The CPU players NEVER tire whilst in the last few mins your players cannot even be arsed to recieve the ball. In PES 2012, you get the arcadey feeling because of the movement of players and its played at such as high speed and filled with button cramming. You can never have a bit of fun if you play the game apart if you play with really good teams. Whats the difference between Pirlo and Cabaye? Statwise, there is a difference but on the pitch in PES, there is none at all.

Every match I play feels the same, players, team etc. The CPU attack the same way everytime and never build up their play. I stopped playing it time ago because it was tiring me out which is what FIFA did to me. There is no 'one game more' feeling to it.

While the gameplay is good, the lack of elements let it down

abu97 said:

Your finding it a joy to play because you've got legends in your team.

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Exactly, I've found a way to enjoy it.

I suppose I just like to see the positives rather than focus on the negatives. I also live my life with a similar attitude. Shoot me down if that's a bad thing.

And as for player individuality, try dribbling past the whole team with a keeper. I find that players are very different, and some can do what others can't.

jMz said:

Exactly, I've found a way to enjoy it.

I suppose I just like to see the positives rather than focus on the negatives. I also live my life with a similar attitude. Shoot me down if that's a bad thing.

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To be fair, if you're playing PES with all the best players, where's the challenge? That's not being positive that's just loading the deck :lol: