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Why hate those 'through ball spammers'?

PEStroll

Registered User
You think those long through balls or one-touch shots/passes are too videogame-y, does not represent real football, and unlikely to happen in real life?

Consider these: [COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/JkcD8[/COLOR] or http://goo.gl/DBZLH

Pirlo's weighted pass against Udinese
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/rPtSQ[/COLOR]

Xavi's trademarked through ball
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/ZqH5Q[/COLOR]

Beckham's lob through pass (this is even more unbelievable and crazier than PES')
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/Fd37l[/COLOR]

Another of Beckham's lob thru passes
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/BYwA1[/COLOR]

Typical PES' thru pass scheme
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/QVoOI[/COLOR]

Pirlo lob through pass, commonly you found in PES *spammers*
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/hz9Af[/COLOR]

Classic through ball 'spamming'
[COLOR="blue"]http://goo.gl/owjxf[/COLOR]

We just have to know how to time it right (and how to defend it).

Yes, in the whole 90 minutes of real football game there may only be 1-2 magical moments like those... because the other 10 passes or so just didn't connect. Same as any PES match everyone play.

I'm sure most of you are familiar in real life competitive sports. Whether it in football or tennis matches or whatever it is.

You know the moment when 'the feeling was there', and you execute those shots or kicks without thinking, and do it as a result of reflex. You just know that the ball will land in the right spot where you want it to be, and perhaps you couldn't believe it yourselves that you made that amazing shot (or you believe it and just have the talent for the sport).

I personally think that's how all those amazing passes/shots are made, and PES 2013 is the closest thing a game sim compared to a real football match so far.

Consider how 'hold up play' works. If you try to lunge a tackle/interception during hold up play, but your position is not close enough to the dribbler, then you can get passed easily.

Another example is on how shooting works. You have to get the feeling on how the shooters footwork and body position while executing shots.

Bad timing button press? Keeper tips the ball.

Holding stick in one direction too long? Ball gets wide.

Want to play a video game that resembles a real match? Go to a real pitch instead of sitting on a couch. That game is not here yet.

Video game, with its flaws and perfections, are bound to be exploited, whether we like it or not. Instead of whining of this or that game is broken or full of glitches, there is a solution.

Just my two cents.
 

iamcanadianeh

Registered User
Excuses. It's ugly, cheap, predictable, repetitive and unrealistic. You're not convincing anybody by picking a few highlights and saying that it represents football, because if you watch a match, or series of matches, then watch PES 2013, you can see it's just way out of touch with reality. Plus, the bottom line is that it's cheap, and the defending AI just act like idiots... So, to you sir I say that if you really had any skill you would play fair. And if you do, I think you'll actually find you have more fun, score better goals, and know you actually earned it when you win. Plus, you won't have to try so hard to justify your playing style to yourself or others.
 

Ali

It is happening again
There are a lot of players out there who want to play a nice honest game against like-minded honest players. Those who don't abuse the inadequacies of the game. Is that so hard to understand? As [MENTION=32290]iamcanadianeh[/MENTION] mentions, it's more fun to play in a "proper" way. I mean, surely.... does it not just get boring to abuse the same move over and over again?

It adds more frustration if you lose. Knowing that you've been beaten by someone with little skill, who'll just do anything to win and abuse cheap tactics.
 

PEStroll

Registered User
...it's more fun to play in a "proper" way. I mean, surely.... does it not just get boring to abuse the same move over and over again?

You're not convincing anybody by picking a few highlights and saying that it represents football, because if you watch a match, or series of matches, then watch PES 2013, you can see it's just way out of touch with reality... So, to you sir I say that if you really had any skill you would play fair

So what is your personal definition of 'play fair'?

It adds more frustration if you lose. Knowing that you've been beaten by someone with little skill, who'll just do anything to win and abuse cheap tactics.
If your definition of 'same move' or 'cheap tactics' is abusing long ball up front, I have a solution for you. Heck it's my own technique that works for me, and as you argue in what happens in real football, nothing is 100% foolproof.

You want real authenticity sir, I'd suggest you go for the real pitch, not the couch.

My own two cents.
 

Ali

It is happening again
So what is your personal definition of 'play fair'?


If your definition of 'same move' or 'cheap tactics' is abusing long ball up front, I have a solution for you. Heck it's my own technique that works for me, and as you argue in what happens in real football, nothing is 100% foolproof.

You want real authenticity sir, I'd suggest you go for the real pitch, not the couch.

My own two cents.

Well yes, this is true. But this is meant to be a football simulation is it not? Konami don't intend to make an arcadey game when they make it, I'm sure of that, but that's how it's turned out.

You can't really compare playing a computerized game of football with playing real life football. They're a different entity.
 
[MENTION=214468]PEStroll[/MENTION]: If you have a high rating, don't listen to anyone on here. They are obviously sore that they don't have a good score or have an undefeated record like yours truly. "Through ball spamming" isn't cheating or against the spirit of the game. You are absolutely right with what you've said, unless you don't have a high rating. It wouldn't make sense having a low rating and playing like that, since you would struggle to see the results of it.

~ Don't hate the player, hate the game ~
 

WWFCB

Registered User
[MENTION=214468]PEStroll[/MENTION]: If you have a high rating, don't listen to anyone on here. They are obviously sore that they don't have a good score or have an undefeated record like yours truly. "Through ball spamming" isn't cheating or against the spirit of the game. You are absolutely right with what you've said, unless you don't have a high rating. It wouldn't make sense having a low rating and playing like that, since you would struggle to see the results of it.

~ Don't hate the player, hate the game ~

Perhaps you two should team up on 2 v 2!!!

What a dream team :no:
 

iamcanadianeh

Registered User
[MENTION=214468]PEStroll[/MENTION]: If you have a high rating, don't listen to anyone on here. They are obviously sore that they don't have a good score or have an undefeated record like yours truly. "Through ball spamming" isn't cheating or against the spirit of the game. You are absolutely right with what you've said, unless you don't have a high rating. It wouldn't make sense having a low rating and playing like that, since you would struggle to see the results of it.

~ Don't hate the player, hate the game ~

Cheap is cheap. I'm not surprised though to see that the people who play this way are able to convince themselves that it isn't.

Still, I have no respect for the people who play to exploit the game as opposed to playing to win fairly. I don't need to define what that means because even those who are defending it know exactly what's what. It's obvious.

I'm not going to try to argue however or to prove anything. Partially, that's because it's impossible to try to prove something to someone who clearly wants to see things a certain way (to justify their own cheap playing style) but also because I have better things to do with my time. All I am doing though is voicing an opinion because I think it's important for those who play this way to understand that they have no respect from the people they play against. It's obvious that you walk away from the game thinking you are good at the game, but I would say with confidence that almost ALL of the spammers I come up against (with some very rare exceptions) are seriously lacking when it comes to real skill in the game. And it's obvious when you play them that this is, of course, why they resort to long ball tactics. They simply aren't good enough to play the game right, so they resort to being cheap.

Also, if you think people like me are sore about having poor records, I'm afraid to say that that's simply wrong. I've made the point over and over on these forums, that the problem I have with these spammers is that they ruin the game and make it so that even when you beat them, the game was ugly and totally not representative of football in the least.

I do blame the player by the way, at least to a degree, because not everyone choose to play like a *@#!$%! Using that argument is like saying that it's not your fault you robbed a bank and killed a bunch of people, because someone gave you a gun and a ski-mask.
 

wheresmark

Registered User
Abusing a flaw in a game is cheap, it doesn't matter if this has given you a high rating. It's like campers in cod or glitchers in halo or track cut cheats in GT5, games have flaws, they always will and it is 100% the players fault for abusing those flaws.

If that's the only way you can win then you're a noob. I play countless of these through ball spammers and can counter it quite effectively, these guys then usually lag out to keep their precious records, that's because the people who constantly try through ball are the same people who will try and cheat because they want to win at all costs, usually because they have been brought up the wrong way.

There is no pride in winning if you have won cheaply, and if you do take pride in winning in those ways then in real life you must be abit of a loser.

I'm a massively competative person myself, but would never stoop to cheap tactics to win. If I get beaten fairly on pes then I congratulate the other player, those games where two peple play properly are amazing on pes 13. Yes I do occasionally use a through ball, or a long ball, but once or twice a match when my player is making a run, I play a close passing game usually and don't rely on speed merchants.

Unfortunately too many people feel the need to play cheaply nowadays, it's usually children or people who can't win in any other way or people who don't get much sense of achievement in real life.

If anyone has a 100% win record, but just spam through balls then they are still sh*t in my eyes.
 
Cheap is cheap. I'm not surprised though to see that the people who play this way are able to convince themselves that it isn't.

Still, I have no respect for the people who play to exploit the game as opposed to playing to win fairly. I don't need to define what that means because even those who are defending it know exactly what's what. It's obvious.

I'm not going to try to argue however or to prove anything. Partially, that's because it's impossible to try to prove something to someone who clearly wants to see things a certain way (to justify their own cheap playing style) but also because I have better things to do with my time. All I am doing though is voicing an opinion because I think it's important for those who play this way to understand that they have no respect from the people they play against. It's obvious that you walk away from the game thinking you are good at the game, but I would say with confidence that almost ALL of the spammers I come up against (with some very rare exceptions) are seriously lacking when it comes to real skill in the game. And it's obvious when you play them that this is, of course, why they resort to long ball tactics. They simply aren't good enough to play the game right, so they resort to being cheap.

Also, if you think people like me are sore about having poor records, I'm afraid to say that that's simply wrong. I've made the point over and over on these forums, that the problem I have with these spammers is that they ruin the game and make it so that even when you beat them, the game was ugly and totally not representative of football in the least.

I do blame the player by the way, at least to a degree, because not everyone choose to play like a *@#!$%! Using that argument is like saying that it's not your fault you robbed a bank and killed a bunch of people, because someone gave you a gun and a ski-mask.

I may have given you the impression that i cared if you had respect for people that play "like that".

Please don't call me arrogant, but i think i am very good and could easily beat you. I don't care if you don't have any respect because i'll win and you'll lose. You are simply a loser with a losing record trying to make excuses as to why he is so bad. People that hate the player are losers. People that hate the game understand that winning is the only thing.

Abusing a flaw in a game is cheap, it doesn't matter if this has given you a high rating. It's like campers in cod or glitchers in halo or track cut cheats in GT5, games have flaws, they always will and it is 100% the players fault for abusing those flaws.

If that's the only way you can win then you're a noob. I play countless of these through ball spammers and can counter it quite effectively, these guys then usually lag out to keep their precious records, that's because the people who constantly try through ball are the same people who will try and cheat because they want to win at all costs, usually because they have been brought up the wrong way.

There is no pride in winning if you have won cheaply, and if you do take pride in winning in those ways then in real life you must be abit of a loser.

I'm a massively competative person myself, but would never stoop to cheap tactics to win. If I get beaten fairly on pes then I congratulate the other player, those games where two peple play properly are amazing on pes 13. Yes I do occasionally use a through ball, or a long ball, but once or twice a match when my player is making a run, I play a close passing game usually and don't rely on speed merchants.

Unfortunately too many people feel the need to play cheaply nowadays, it's usually children or people who can't win in any other way or people who don't get much sense of achievement in real life.

If anyone has a 100% win record, but just spam through balls then they are still sh*t in my eyes.

*Competitive. *People. The truth is that i have an undefeated record and a better rating than all of you combined. I am better than all of you and i know jealousy must creep in as to wonder how can this guy be so good and so amazing. I understand. I know how much of an honor it must be to hear my advice.
 

wheresmark

Registered User
*Competitive. *People. The truth is that i have an undefeated record and a better rating than all of you combined. I am better than all of you and i know jealousy must creep in as to wonder how can this guy be so good and so amazing. I understand. I know how much of an honor it must be to hear my advice.

Lol, there is zero jealousy as you abuse the through ball FLAW. I have been a sponsored gamer and semi pro gamer for a while now and I am pretty good at most games, I'm a FPS man though and have been No1 at call of duty and won numerous LAN tourneys before (check my youtube for proof if needed) but PES I am not 'amazing' at, I am pretty good though. Yes you probably would beat me, but if it was by abusing cheap noob tactics then you wouldn't get any jealousy or respect from me, only pitty.

Do you really thing everyone here who tells you that you're cheap is actually jealous? lol. No one's jealous of people who play cheaply and abuse flaws in a game to win, that's true in all walks of life.
 
Lol, there is zero jealousy as you abuse the through ball FLAW. I have been a sponsored gamer and semi pro gamer for a while now and I am pretty good at most games, I'm a FPS man though and have been No1 at call of duty and won numerous LAN tourneys before (check my youtube for proof if needed) but PES I am not 'amazing' at, I am pretty good though. Yes you probably would beat me, but if it was by abusing cheap noob tactics then you wouldn't get any jealousy or respect from me, only pitty.

Do you really thing everyone here who tells you that you're cheap is actually jealous? lol. No one's jealous of people who play cheaply and abuse flaws in a game to win, that's true in all walks of life.

I doubt someone as bad as you would be a sponsored gamer or a semi-pro gamer. I have an undefeated record and that is something you could never hope to achieve. You can do the same as i do and you call "cheap, noob tactics". Don't hate me, hate the game.
 

StephDedalus1

Registered User
I doubt someone as bad as you would be a sponsored gamer or a semi-pro gamer. I have an undefeated record and that is something you could never hope to achieve. You can do the same as i do and you call "cheap, noob tactics". Don't hate me, hate the game.

So what you're saying is, don't criticize me, criticize the game. What a great way to assume responsibility of your actions, and what an even greater way to undermine your apparent amazing "rating". Further, your philosophy demeans whatever accomplishments you've achieved, no? The tired "don't hate the player..." routine creates a vacuum, sucking out whatever greatness you think you've reached. I'm not "hating" on your "hate" of "haters", but instead am left questioning where that leaves you. So, your little saying has built into it a criticism of the game, and in a way, admits some kind of fault. Anyway, I never understood the "don't hate the player.." schtick when it appeared over ten years ago. I think this has to do with why it has been virtually eliminated from common usage years ago (I'd have to give you congrats on sticking with something that's become so cliché and out of date). I seriously, for many different reasons, think you should put some thought into what you're really saying when you make the "hater" claim. It seems as one of those sayings that people repeat without ever really thinking about. Plus, why put such a premium on being undefeated in a video game? In any event, I think I speak for most on pesgaming.com by saying that we really don't care to hear about how proud you are of yourself. Of course, because this is an open forum, we can only "hate" the "game", and listen to somebody tout themselves, right?
 
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Usethefrcefke

Registered User
True, but in real life you get more success by keeping it on the floor. Crap teams use the 'long ball' tactic a lot because they can't pass & are not creative enough & it generally gets them nowhere unless they play other teams of similar poor quality.
 

StephDedalus1

Registered User
True, but in real life you get more success by keeping it on the floor. Crap teams use the 'long ball' tactic a lot because they can't pass & are not creative enough & it generally gets them nowhere unless they play other teams of similar poor quality.

Not sure what you meant by "true", in regards to my post. In any event, I'd have to say "true" to your posting. However, I think the big argument people are leveling is that NOT crap teams are being used with supposed non-creative tactics.
 

PEStroll

Registered User
Set your pass assist at 1 or below, also set your ranking match's pass assist on 'similar setting' (or something like that), and let's quit bitching about meeting opponents abusing long thru balls.
 

wheresmark

Registered User
I doubt someone as bad as you would be a sponsored gamer or a semi-pro gamer. I have an undefeated record and that is something you could never hope to achieve. You can do the same as i do and you call "cheap, noob tactics". Don't hate me, hate the game.

Haha you're pretty funny, I like you.

I am not bad at the game, I'm not particularly amazing at it, but I can hold my own against most people. I don't put enough time into pes to be 'amazing at it' like anything the more you play the better you become which is why I am much better at other games, anyway as I said - check my youtube if you don't believe me.

I love how the whole Pesgaming community disagrees with you and you still think you're right. Kudos for the ignorance :cool:
 

Usethefrcefke

Registered User
Not sure what you meant by "true", in regards to my post. In any event, I'd have to say "true" to your posting. However, I think the big argument people are leveling is that NOT crap teams are being used with supposed non-creative tactics.

I'm saying, and taking gamer ability into account, that the game should discourage long balls.... like, passing on the floor should be much more rewarding but infinitely more difficult but infinitely more rewarding if done correctly.

So that the more intelligent play gets much more of a reward...

For example, unlike in Fifa where lob balls seem to cause massive lag delays in your opponents input & thus leaving you or your opponent at the mercy of the engine.

None of that.

Anyway, there reason lob balls are such a problem nowadays is because companies are trying to 'force' mimic real life too much...

But I just see it all as an excuse to 'band their games. We're talking about two HUMANS playing.

Too much scripting... In Fifa you can see the game throw everything at you, even online, in a bid to keep scorelines low & realistic looking & thus severely limiting creative expression....
 
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Griciu

Registered User
NOT a flaw. Learn to defend properly. I don't remember when was the last time I conceded such a goal and there are so many players out there relying solely on this.

There are bigger flaws in this game that need to be addressed. For instance shots from outside the box that 90% of the time hit a defender, they're like a magnet to that ball. I guess in a way it cancels out.
 
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