A few issues I'v got with PES 2011

[Craney91]

Now, I’m not going to bang on and on about these issues and waste your time. I’m just going to mention the problems I have, to maybe point Konami into the right direction.

I am enjoying the game very much, but there are a few very frustrating issues that hold it back somewhat.

Having played all the Pro Evo's on Top Player difficulty and 100+ games in single player on PES 2011 on Top Player difficulty, it struck me by about my 5th game in, that difficulty in this game is very in-consistent. Dont get me wrong, I like a challenging game, but these issues take the biscuit and you feel cheated.

For instance, I changed no tactics, no game plans, NOTHING...I simply left them on default. The same game I played over and over again was Barca vs. Inter on Top Player (Me playing as Inter every time.)

The first game I played, I held out a 0-0 bore-draw, the next game felt totally different and a lot harder for some reason, and I lost 2-0. Then the third game seemed really easy and I won 2-0.

For me, playing on Top Player difficulty, although it should feel different each game and a challenge, the A.I. difficulty should not differ. That’s what difficulties are there for, no?

That’s 1 of them out the way.

DIFFICULTY CONSISTENCY


The second problem I’m having whilst playing on Top Player difficulty is that sometimes you will be closed down by 4 or 5 CPU players! Which for me is totally OVER THE TOP and limits your "freedom". You have NO chance of dribbling out of the situation, nor do you have the time to power up any sort of pass or shot. This is what’s BAD about FIFA, and it’s a terrible thing creeping into Pro Evo.

It is impossible for you to close 1 player down with 4 of yours yourself (Maximum is 2 while holding down X or Square), so therefore the computer should not be able to do this either.

This NEEDS balancing out, especially when you have manual 360 passing and shooting! You the gamer have control over these things, and it takes a split second to pull a pass or shot off, because you HAVE to power it up, you can’t just tap it and BANG it’s done!

So A.I. defense should be toned down a tad, its far to aggressive!

The next problem I have is that when on the attack the ONLY way to get a forward to make a run is by doing ping-pong, one-twos. (VERY FIFA LIKE)

It feels very static at times on the attack and even though Konami said that A.I. would make the runs for you, it just doesn’t happen anywhere near enough and you find yourself passing backwards all the time! It’s almost like the forwards, not in your control, don’t have a clue where the ball is, or where the possession may end up.

So A.I. offense on the controlled team should be notched up a little bit.

I also feel this game pays WAY to much attention to game-plan set ups, especially those (Trailing, Level, In front...thingy’s) Although they should have some affect on the game, they shouldn’t REVOLVE around them entirely and I feel this game does that too much.

So IMO something needs to be changed slightly there, because games are not being decided by the skill of the player!




I’m not asking for a major OVERHAUL, because these are only niggles. BUT, these should be fixed soon with a patch and let me first say, I’m not one for;

“OH GOD, THIS GAME IS TERRIBLE WE NEED 10 PATCHES!”

I’m not one for patching games at all, I don’t agree with it, because half the time it breaks the game, because of the change of code. But the things I’m talking about here are just basically turning up or down the game sliders on a update....because we can’t move the sliders ourselves (Like on Basketball games)....and I really think it would sort these things out and we would have a very good balanced football game on our hands.

I don’t think Konami should wait and wait and wait to then say,

“OH, PES 2012 is around the corner, the issues are fixed in that game”

If you sort these problems out NOW, it shows to the fans of the game and the gaming community that you monitor your game code and are willing to change it if problems occur (Care). Something which EA don’t do with FIFA when it’s badly needed!

It will be interesting to hear from anybody else that feels the same way as me with these issues:


- CPU is way to over-aggressive on Top Player.

- CPU controlled players on your team when on the attack are not aware enough. (Lack of forward runs)

- Game-Plans make the game feel to much "on the rails" and are to effective.




Take care now,

Dan.

 

[soc160]

Well put and organised, im not going to bother quoting you as i would take an age... Ill just take you up on a few points.

1) Inconsistent difficulties: The game has to be different every time, otherwise if you beat barca once you know how to beat them everytime, how much fun would that be? Players play different in each match IRL, thats why i love the form they have in it, if its a purple arrow they are nowhere near as good. Football isn't consistent in real life so why should it be in this?


2) One of the biggest problems people have is with the player runs, now there not great but the game has changed since last year and people need to understand and change the way they play, you cant just get the ball and run and expect players to appear in the box, again it doenst happen in real life, you need to play it about and wait for players to make those runs, although i do agree they could support you more...

I think you and others need to give it time and adjust yourself a bit and try a new game plan like passing it about more and open up space or something...

 

[webweb]

Regarding inconsistent difficulties, I agree with everything the member above me says, however you also have to take into account your own inconsistency. You will not play exactly the same in different games. One game you may not be playing as well, and so it appears from your perspective that the computer is doing really well i.e. they difficulty has shot up, and then the next time you might play a blinder and it seems the computer has gotten much worse, when in actual fact your performance improved.

Not saying this is definetly the case here, but it is something to bare in mind.

 

[Makavelian]

Great points brought up.
Best pes for a while,
but fuck me its got so many flaws.:erm:

 

[Bads316]

Agreed, enjoying it greatly despite its flaws - which just tells you how good it could be! One thing annoying me is the amount of bicycle kicks/scissor kicks, but slowly learning to avoid them.

 

[Craney91]

Well put and organised, im not going to bother quoting you as i would take an age... Ill just take you up on a few points.

1) Inconsistent difficulties: The game has to be different every time, otherwise if you beat barca once you know how to beat them everytime, how much fun would that be? Players play different in each match IRL, thats why i love the form they have in it, if its a purple arrow they are nowhere near as good. Football isn't consistent in real life so why should it be in this?


2) One of the biggest problems people have is with the player runs, now there not great but the game has changed since last year and people need to understand and change the way they play, you cant just get the ball and run and expect players to appear in the box, again it doenst happen in real life, you need to play it about and wait for players to make those runs, although i do agree they could support you more...

I think you and others need to give it time and adjust yourself a bit and try a new game plan like passing it about more and open up space or something...

It’s not even that, the thing with the difficulties for me is that if you have it on the highest (In this case "Top Player") It should give you the maximum challenge the game can give you...and it SHOULD be the hardest setting. I agree, it shouldn’t be the same every game because it would be rather boring...but that’s not what I’m getting at here. When I play on top player, I expect a good challenge firstly and to be forced into playing a different way to win. But how can the same game on top player that I’ve played 3 times, feel easier? It shouldn’t, that’s just it. It wasn’t a question about "playing better in one game" the game played out and "felt" totally different. I doubt it had anything to do with the form of the players either. The game I lost 2-0, played out like a difficulty above top player. It was almost like the unlockable 6 stars of old and the game I won felt like it was on Beginner.

Regarding player runs, I totally agree!

It is a different game and you do have to play in a way unlike ever before. Patience is the key this year and if you get carried away or frustrated, even the computer will hammer you.

However, I like to consider myself a patient player anyhow and I don’t rush into things on this game. I like to pick my passes and work an opening. But when I feel like I need to penetrate the defense with a through ball, none of my forwards are anywhere near in the right position to receive it, they just stand there and ball-watch. That’s why I feel the majority of the time, the only way to get that player on a run forward, is to one-two and this SHOULD NOT be the case.

The forwards should be aware of the situation and IF it thinks you’re looking to play that ball in behind, it should make the run in time.

You'll notice with players like Torres and Millito, they will hang between the lines and look to get in behind. But it shouldn’t ALWAYS be down to "the player" you’re using. I just think it’s a bit silly, that you have to "one-two" to get a player moving....so you can play that killer pass. Sometimes, you just want to play the ONE pass through, but you can’t….but that's not because its clogged up and the defense has got it covered. But simply because the one you want to make the pass too, couldn’t give a flying fuck!

So you end up going backwards.

 

[Mal0n515]

It’s not even that, the thing with the difficulties for me is that if you have it on the highest (In this case "Top Player") It should give you the maximum challenge the game can give you...and it SHOULD be the hardest setting. I agree, it shouldn’t be the same every game because it would be rather boring...but that’s not what I’m getting at here. When I play on top player, I expect a good challenge firstly and to be forced into playing a different way to win. But how can the same game on top player that I’ve played 3 times, feel easier? It shouldn’t, that’s just it. It wasn’t a question about "playing better in one game" the game played out and "felt" totally different. I doubt it had anything to do with the form of the players either. The game I lost 2-0, played out like a difficulty above top player. It was almost like the unlockable 6 stars of old and the game I won felt like it was on Beginner.

Regarding player runs, I totally agree!

It is a different game and you do have to play in a way unlike ever before. Patience is the key this year and if you get carried away or frustrated, even the computer will hammer you.

However, I like to consider myself a patient player anyhow and I don’t rush into things on this game. I like to pick my passes and work an opening. But when I feel like I need to penetrate the defense with a through ball, none of my forwards are anywhere near in the right position to receive it, they just stand there and ball-watch. That’s why I feel the majority of the time, the only way to get that player on a run forward, is to one-two and this SHOULD NOT be the case.

The forwards should be aware of the situation and IF it thinks you’re looking to play that ball in behind, it should make the run in time.

You'll notice with players like Torres and Millito, they will hang between the lines and look to get in behind. But it shouldn’t ALWAYS be down to "the player" you’re using. I just think it’s a bit silly, that you have to "one-two" to get a player moving....so you can play that killer pass. Sometimes, you just want to play the ONE pass through, but you can’t….but that's not because its clogged up and the defense has got it covered. But simply because the one you want to make the pass too, couldn’t give a flying fuck!

So you end up going backwards.

You probably already know but instead of doing one-twos up the park you can press RT/R2 after having made the pass to have the player make a run and then you can work an attack around that run, I know what you mean about ball watching though, and they are often offside at the same time! Anyone else frustrated at the return pass from throw-ins? I think that is rediculous.

 

[Sminky]

Well put and organised, im not going to bother quoting you as i would take an age... Ill just take you up on a few points.

1) Inconsistent difficulties: The game has to be different every time, otherwise if you beat barca once you know how to beat them everytime, how much fun would that be? Players play different in each match IRL, thats why i love the form they have in it, if its a purple arrow they are nowhere near as good. Football isn't consistent in real life so why should it be in this?


2) One of the biggest problems people have is with the player runs, now there not great but the game has changed since last year and people need to understand and change the way they play, you cant just get the ball and run and expect players to appear in the box, again it doenst happen in real life, you need to play it about and wait for players to make those runs, although i do agree they could support you more...

I think you and others need to give it time and adjust yourself a bit and try a new game plan like passing it about more and open up space or something...

I've given it time and here is the crux of the situation, on Top Player you are hindered by AI that favours the CPU. For example, I went to the clear the ball in my penalty area against Liverpool and Lucas managed to stop the ball from being cleared as his leg passed through my player as if he were a ghost! Needless to say Lucas scored thanks to this supernatural ability and its not been a one off. The AI on Top player will look to challenge you but it does the old trick of implementing techniques you can't yourself. This was a problem on PES6, on Top player the game speed would increase, plodding players would discover a burst of speed to get past you.

I've won some thrilling games on PES2011 but I'm bored of watching average players making absurdly perfect defense splitting passes (Jose Enrique for gods sake!) on Top Player. I'm equally bored of winning games by pressing through ball.

I think in 6 months or so many people will revise their view of PES2011. At the moment because its such an improvement on PES2010 the rose tinted glasses are on.

On its own merit PES2011 isn't how I want a football sim to play. Challenging yes, but silly AI and formulaic play ... no thanks

 

[Damo7]

Both PES2011 & FIFA11 have very unrealistic AI on the Top Level.

 

[Sminky]

Both PES2011 & FIFA11 have very unrealistic AI on the Top Level.

Worse than watching England!

 

[BuddhaBone]

I think in 6 months or so many people will revise their view of PES2011. At the moment because its such an improvement on PES2010 the rose tinted glasses are on.

On its own merit PES2011 isn't how I want a football sim to play. Challenging yes, but silly AI and formulaic play ... no thanks

Word, I already begin revising it. Been really thrilled by 2011 since the demo and since I only play online - not to mention the lag - I start seeing how people start exploiting all those flaws already. I start hating this game and Konami... Not that I can't win and frustration comes from there... It's just like... I feel I have less options than before even though it's 360° now. 1-2s are really the only option... Whenever I try a highball after somehow managing to get rid of the defenders NOBODYs waiting in the box. That's such a joke... And I use a high forward support settings in my strategies...

 

[Sminky]

Word, I already begin revising it. Been really thrilled by 2011 since the demo and since I only play online - not to mention the lag - I start seeing how people start exploiting all those flaws already. I start hating this game and Konami... Not that I can't win and frustration comes from there... It's just like... I feel I have less options than before even though it's 360° now. 1-2s are really the only option... Whenever I try a highball after somehow managing to get rid of the defenders NOBODYs waiting in the box. That's such a joke... And I use a high forward support settings in my strategies...

Worse than watching England!

PES2009 was blighted by the 1-2 bug, players would steam on with no regard for the offside trap. Often on Top player the AI was too adept at picking out perfectly time passes and some frankly awful players would score thanks to this 1-2 bug. Totally absurd.

 

[Mal0n515]

I've given it time and here is the crux of the situation, on Top Player you are hindered by AI that favours the CPU. For example, I went to the clear the ball in my penalty area against Liverpool and Lucas managed to stop the ball from being cleared as his leg passed through my player as if he were a ghost! Needless to say Lucas scored thanks to this supernatural ability and its not been a one off. The AI on Top player will look to challenge you but it does the old trick of implementing techniques you can't yourself. This was a problem on PES6, on Top player the game speed would increase, plodding players would discover a burst of speed to get past you.

I've won some thrilling games on PES2011 but I'm bored of watching average players making absurdly perfect defense splitting passes (Jose Enrique for gods sake!) on Top Player. I'm equally bored of winning games by pressing through ball.

I think in 6 months or so many people will revise their view of PES2011. At the moment because its such an improvement on PES2010 the rose tinted glasses are on.

On its own merit PES2011 isn't how I want a football sim to play. Challenging yes, but silly AI and formulaic play ... no thanks

Start playing with some friends? AI has always cheated as far as I can remember on the highest difficulty, and not just in PES but in most games by some means of cheapness. PES has and most likely always will be about multi-player, thats where the real fun has ALWAYS been at, I'm not talking about online either, no no, you and your mate sitting having a good ol' sesh. Having AI is merely a bonus in my vision where you have the privelege to play on your own albeit with some frustration once in a while but ultimately 2- 4 player is the bomb.

 

[Craney91]

I’m tired and I can feel a splitting headache on the way

I played a few games on Pro tonight (on Top Player of course) and I was really pulling my hair out in pure frustration with a few things totally wrong and uncontrollable with this game…..Having played those few games, believe it or not, my headache started coming on.

But what I found in those few games, to me, was truly shocking TBH.

I was playing as England….vs. Montenegro on Top Player and I played 3 games back to back and the stuff that was happening in those games was absolutely ridiculous.

From what I've managed to read in this thread, in the past few minutes. I agree with everything you lot have been talking about and I WILL give my opinion(s) on the issues (and tell you all about these games I had tonight) in the morning after a good night’s sleep.

I really don’t want to spit gibberish out right now and have to go through and edit it all, because of my silly tired mistakes.

So I’ll speak to you all sometime tomorrow.

- Dan

 

[Craney91]

I’m very confident now that this game on ALL difficulties screws you over.

I played 3 games last night deliberately playing as England vs. Montenegro on Top Player to test my theory(s).

The first game felt slow and unresponsive, no players were making runs upfront and there was no rhythm or build up play at all.

The ball was like a foreign object to my players, it was bouncing of players who were trying to control the ball.

The first touch from all my players was non-existent! I mean I’d make a short 2 yard pass and the player recieving it would dummy the ball by ITSELF or even knock the ball on as if I was tapping RB to do so.

Nothing worked at all, yet every time the shitty "no name" Montenegro had the ball they passed it around with ease like Barcelona! All of the players were aware at all times on attack and defense. The players were making effortless and endless runs forward to create chances. When they were defending, their players were on my sluggish players in a rash. Sometimes, 3 or 4 players would close the ball down and virtually throw my “weak” players off the ball. But anytime I went near their players to tackle, (Sometimes I wouldn’t even hold or press A or X) the player would fall over, IT WAS A FREE KICK EVERYSINGLE TIME!

Anybody would think I was the one playing WITH Montenegro against England. It was pathetic; it was almost like all the players were 99 for them and 2 for me.

It was impossible to pass it about, create a chance, get a shot of, or even dribble around their players. Every time I tried something different, it got cut out almost immediately.

I don’t really understand why this game even has a run/turbo button, because players just don’t move quick enough or responsive enough! The skills (Link Feints) are to me rendered useless because the game is not even designed for dribbling or skill aspects of the game, as the strength is totally overpowered and bias towards the defender(s).

All the advantage on this game is for defenders.

That game ended 2-2,

I played it again, 0-0

….and then I rematched it again which ended 1-1.

THIS WAS AGAINST MONTENEGRO!?!

It was just silly, so I played a few games on Professional playing as Inter vs. Barca and the same shit was happening in that game, the A.I. was just unstoppable, yet could easily read anything you was about to do. It wasn’t easier at all.

So I dropped the skill level down AGAIN to Regular and it was EVEN HARDER than the other 2.

What are you supposed to play this game on? You drop the skill level and it gets even more un-responsive and sluggish, this is SINGLE PLAYER, don’t forget.

The games I’m playing almost feel like a laggy scripted online game!

I really think this “Management Edit” setup shit is wrecking this game. It’s like I can only score a goal in certain periods of the games (Normally around 70 to 80mins). It’s weird to explain, but it is certainly not right.

It takes (70 to 80mins) for my team to start looking like attacking and scoring a goal! I don’t change anything with stats or setups at all; I just play the game on what it’s got set on default.

Considering Konami’s big thing and word this year is “Freedom”

Although I feel you have more freedom on passes, you just don’t get that same sort of freedom in movement OR dribbling! Its all very restrictive and you become scared to even run past or take a defender on at all, because you know you’re going to lose the ball.

- For instance next time you play the game, pass the ball back to a defender and trap the ball so you are stationary with the ball. Flick the stick in a direction to move with the ball and let go of the analog. Your player will STILL be moving with the ball for a couple of seconds after that. Yet you aint telling it to move?

What the fuck is going on?

 

[Sminky]

This is part of my rant from another thread but I believe it applies here also. For the most part it remains on topic. Its a bit of a soapbox moment but I covered what annoys me most about PES2011 ....

"I'm really disappointed with PES, as Stoke City I managed with no difficulty at all during my first season to sign Kranjcar, Keane, Miccoli, Di Natale, Bridge, Galloppa. Worst of all is that I started the season with £67m! Stoke City?! £67m are you flipping kidding me?!?!?

I couldn't play with the fake players, I want the ultimate sim and management game which means no fake players.

I chose Stoke expecting it to be tough but then it proved mediocre. Most teams I play against switch to a Diamond formation which (is not true to real life!) always seems to cause problems but the ultimate sin is that when I've used speedy players I can't get away from defenders YET when I played Aston Villa Agbonlahor and Ashley Young skinned me for pace continually, well yup thats true to life but when I've used these players it isn't possible for me to replicate what the AI can.

I use feints to open up space to leg it into the green grass, I use well paced dinky passes and neither brings much success unless the last defender tried to push up for offside ... which isn't often.

Sour grapes or not, there are bugs in this game from PES2009 and PES2008, appalling goalkeeping gaffes (I've seen some good saves but the PES2009 goalkeeper parries has returned. I conceded some absurd goals thanks to Goalies parrying shots the could have caught, crouched to pick up or save with real ease - I'm talking about feeble shots and headers with so little power my cat could have saved them) the goalkeeper 'force field' (goalie is on the floor but your player won't attack the ball as it hangs in the air), defensive animation glitches (the worst was on 'assisted' setting, an AI defender broke into some bizarre feint movement but ran away from the ball!), not being able to select the player you want when there is three of more players in close proximity on the wing. I kid you not, I was refused the choice of selecting my full back even though the ball was right in front of him and the AI allowed the ball to run out of play.

I want the game to be a challenge but I don't want to be fighting stupid AI, I mean how often have you seen Man Utd push Anderson and Carrick upfront alongside Rooney when Berbatov, Owen, Macheda and Hernandez are on the bench??! Stupid stupid stupid"

 

[baroonin]

I've found another annoying thing. There's an invisible wall stopping the gk if he holds the ball and stumbles into he's own goal, thus preventing him from an owngoal.

 

[Mal0n515]

Stop nit picking will ya, go out and play real football.

 

[GazTruman]

I found this topic thinking its the best place to ask these questions...

Ive not bought the game yet, just wanted to know a couple of things.

1. Is the jog bug fixed or what?

2. What are all these bugs everyone is talking about now, can someone please list actual faults in the game... e.g in pes 2010, u could NOT win a penalty. im talking faults this big, not just "the keepers arent great"

Any online bugs dont concern me, a play master league, top player with bolton. can someone tell me why I shouldnt buy this what appears to be best version of pes?

 

[Sminky]

Stop nit picking will ya, go out and play real football.

A truly stunning retort ... I do as it happens play Saturday league football but it seems to have little to do with my legtimate critiquing PES2011.

If you don't like the content of this thread then goo read another one.