Coach mode

[Fruit&Barley]

Hey guys [first post],

I've done a lot of searching around lately to find some sort of place to discuss 'Coach Mode' but I've not had a lot of joy minus a couple of threads. So I was hoping by making a thread here it might act as some sort of hub for anyone that makes the most out of this mode?!

My situation is that I have never used the mode before. Last year (my first PES) I took a team from the Championship to going 3 seasons undefeated in the Premier League, with so many other trophies to boot too. Frankly, I couldn't be bothered to do that again on PES 17 and it was through browsing this forum that I even came across the idea of Coach Mode.

I can tell you this - I've certainly got that challenge I was looking for! I tried not to be rash when I took over my team; I tried to continue with a similar philosophy as the previous manager and ones that suited the players at my disposal. Made a couple of signings from the Academy and so I set about on my quest for world domination.

Anyway, I'm approaching the January transfer window of the first season and I sit 23rd in the table; 2 wins, 7 draws and 9 loses. 10 goals scored and 19 conceded. Which quite frankly is the worst position I've ever had a team at this stage in the season! Whilst I find it all pretty frustrating, it's actually quite exciting as my team wouldn't be in an automatic promotion battle - (which I no doubt would be in had a played the game manually).



With all of that said... I could use some advice! My biggest issue is a complete lack of goals. I am not entirely sure bringing in a new Striker will benefit me too much as I feel the issues are closer to home. So any formation/tactical advice that has worked for you at a new club?

My team spirit is at 56 and my team strength is at 71. Obviously having a higher TS would help, but I am not sure what more I can do. I have players with the Captaincy trait (and fighting spirit) and a few games back I abandoned the default 4-2-3-1 formation (was bringing no joy at all) for a 3-4-3 (similar to Chelsea. In defence I have 5 players and the FB's are set to attacking as to provide attacking width. Maybe I am being to ambitious, but I figured it was a good way to protect the goalkeeper whilst having plenty of numbers going forward).

Another thing I have noticed is that most of my goals either come from a forward bumping into a CB who fails to dispose them or as they slide to the floor and stick a leg out... Is that normal or is that reflective of the quality of my team?



But yeah, any fans around?!

 

[DunkLFC]

Hey guys [first post],
...
Last year (my first PES) I took a team from the Championship to going 3 seasons undefeated in the Premier League, with so many other trophies to boot too.
...
Coach Mode.

I can tell you this - I've certainly got that challenge I was looking for!
...
I'm approaching the January transfer window of the first season and I sit 23rd in the table; 2 wins, 7 draws and 9 loses. 10 goals scored and 19 conceded. Which quite frankly is the worst position I've ever had a team at this stage in the season! Whilst I find it all pretty frustrating, it's actually quite exciting as my team wouldn't be in an automatic promotion battle - (which I no doubt would be in had a played the game manually).
...
My team spirit is at 56 and my team strength is at 71. Obviously having a higher TS would help, but I am not sure what more I can do. I have players with the Captaincy trait (and fighting spirit)
...
Another thing I have noticed is that most of my goals either come from a forward bumping into a CB who fails to dispose them or as they slide to the floor and stick a leg out... Is that normal or is that reflective of the quality of my team?

But yeah, any fans around?!

Firstly, it sounds like you had the same level of success that I had in PES 2016 in regular ML. In PES 2017, I have gone the same route of as last year and it is much much harder to get going with the default PES players (which I presume you have done or I would have expected your Tea Strength to be higher than 71). This is because Team Spirit is so much harder to keep up than last year and you can't just get in lots of good quality free transfer players like you could last year because of the salary cap. I was where you are now when I was half way through my first season, because I'd decimated my TS during the first transfer window.

If you want to start winning, you have to get that TS up to the 80s or higher. I've also found that having a good striker is also very important this year. Last year, getting good defenders was important. In this year's game it is the strikers. In my first season, I just avoided relegation (relegation = getting sacked in PES). I got through to the Premier League via the play-offs in season two and am chasing the champions league places in season three. This is my TS for each season after some wheeling and dealing in the summer transfer windows :-
Start of Season 1 : TS = 30s
End of Season 1 : TS = 92

Start of Season 2 : TS = 78
End of Season 2 : TS = 94

Start of Season 3 : TS = 92
Currently in February of Season 3 : TS = 96

In PES 2016, getting TS up to 99 was just a matter of time, but now I think it requires having players with TS boosting team roles.

While I'm playing Master League the normal way (ie not in coach mode), I think the same things are important in both methods of playing the game. Now that my striker situation has improved, I am getting more goals. However, I'm still finding it much easier to defend than create clear chances in the opposition box, despite my defensive players averaging about 77 OVR, my midfield about 80 OVR and my forwards 82 OVR.

 

[Fruit&Barley]

Firstly, it sounds like you had the same level of success that I had in PES 2016 in regular ML. In PES 2017, I have gone the same route of as last year and it is much much harder to get going with the default PES players (which I presume you have done or I would have expected your Tea Strength to be higher than 71). This is because Team Spirit is so much harder to keep up than last year and you can't just get in lots of good quality free transfer players like you could last year because of the salary cap. I was where you are now when I was half way through my first season, because I'd decimated my TS during the first transfer window.

If you want to start winning, you have to get that TS up to the 80s or higher. I've also found that having a good striker is also very important this year. Last year, getting good defenders was important. In this year's game it is the strikers. In my first season, I just avoided relegation (relegation = getting sacked in PES). I got through to the Premier League via the play-offs in season two and am chasing the champions league places in season three. This is my TS for each season after some wheeling and dealing in the summer transfer windows :-
Start of Season 1 : TS = 30s
End of Season 1 : TS = 92

Start of Season 2 : TS = 78
End of Season 2 : TS = 94

Start of Season 3 : TS = 92
Currently in February of Season 3 : TS = 96

In PES 2016, getting TS up to 99 was just a matter of time, but now I think it requires having players with TS boosting team roles.

While I'm playing Master League the normal way (ie not in coach mode), I think the same things are important in both methods of playing the game. Now that my striker situation has improved, I am getting more goals. However, I'm still finding it much easier to defend than create clear chances in the opposition box, despite my defensive players averaging about 77 OVR, my midfield about 80 OVR and my forwards 82 OVR.

Thanks for this!

I wish I was using the PES default players (is that any good? As I said, PES16 was my first of the series so I naturally just went with the real players. I have read a few posts saying it's the only way to play? Might you shed some light on it for me?) but alas I am using the real life players! I have no idea why it's so low - I loaned out a few players and brought a handful in.. I just had a 6 pointer against Wigan and drew 0-0 hahah.

I think you're right on the dynamics of Team Spirit changing, certainly for the better too. So just by signing players it can screw with the levels? And yeah, that salary cap is a bit of a minefield, but again, so much better over last year where it kind of existed but didn't really have any consequence.

In regards to your save, was it down to just finding the right players that helped things click or was any of it related to finding the right formation for you? You certainly made your TS rocket too! Whereas for me, it's out of my hands. I think I'm getting an idea for how real managers must feel haha.

I'm in January now. I have my eyes on a pair of Fullbacks who would look perfect for the wing back role (they actually have pinpoint crossing also which...) should go very nicely with this Greece Titan I found in the free agents. So all being well, your tip on getting the best out of the Striker pays off. With what you said about relegation, that's my fail-safe. Should I finish in the relegation zone, I'll effectively delete the save as their is no chance I would be in a job and finding one would be next to impossible I feel.

Out of interest, do you have many self imposed restrictions? For example, I know this time I wont be going mental on the regens as that effectively turned Super Star easy mode

 

[DunkLFC]

I wish I was using the PES default players (is that any good? As I said, PES16 was my first of the series so I naturally just went with the real players. I have read a few posts saying it's the only way to play? Might you shed some light on it for me?) but alas I am using the real life players! I have no idea why it's so low - I loaned out a few players and brought a handful in.. I just had a 6 pointer against Wigan and drew 0-0 hahah.

I think you're right on the dynamics of Team Spirit changing, certainly for the better too. So just by signing players it can screw with the levels? And yeah, that salary cap is a bit of a minefield, but again, so much better over last year where it kind of existed but didn't really have any consequence.

If you use the default players (Arcas, Castledine, etc) then you start with really tough budgets. Mine were about :-
Wage Budget : £233k
Transfer Budget : £2.3M

So I went for minor improvements in a lot of free transfer players, but this killed my TS.

Apparently, starting with the players from a given team gives you larger starting budgets of roughly ten times as much cash available for each pot.

In regards to your save, was it down to just finding the right players that helped things click or was any of it related to finding the right formation for you? You certainly made your TS rocket too! Whereas for me, it's out of my hands. I think I'm getting an idea for how real managers must feel haha.

It really didn't feel like the TS rocketed. It was rising by a point a game for ages. Then I bought a player with the Team Player role and I'm guessing that all my pre-season buys finally learned the team system in the last few months of the season. It isn't actually buying new players that causes the problem, it's buying ones that aren't used to your system. If you play counter attack, wide and short passing, buying a player who was playing in another team that does this will fit in without damaging TS too much. Your scouts look for these players, which has actually made scouting slightly more useful. I still use Advanced Search for all my players though. I thought it would be like PES 2016 and that whoever I got in would learn my system in about 6 matches like last year. How wrong I was. And yes, I initially felt annoyed, but then treated it like being Moyes in charge of Sunderland. I really did enjoy turning them around. LOL

I'm in January now. I have my eyes on a pair of Fullbacks who would look perfect for the wing back role (they actually have pinpoint crossing also which...) should go very nicely with this Greece Titan I found in the free agents. So all being well, your tip on getting the best out of the Striker pays off. With what you said about relegation, that's my fail-safe. Should I finish in the relegation zone, I'll effectively delete the save as their is no chance I would be in a job and finding one would be next to impossible I feel.

Hopefully, you'll avoid relegation and by then you'll have TS in a better place. Then phase two of your game can begin. If you do start again, the option to use the default PES players is one of the questions you get when starting a ML. I don't think either way is 'better' than the other, it's just whatever you fancy doing.

I have no idea how your wingers-to-giant tactic will go. It will be interesting to know though. :laugh:

Out of interest, do you have many self imposed restrictions? For example, I know this time I wont be going mental on the regens as that effectively turned Super Star easy mode

I have only restricted myself to buying players that I need. So I've only really stopped myself from getting in players for resale. With the budget as it is, I can't afford to ignore the regens. It may well be that the salary budget stays too low to be able to keep a team of super star players, which was easy to achieve in PES 2016.

 

[Fruit&Barley]

If you use the default players (Arcas, Castledine, etc) then you start with really tough budgets. Mine were about :-
Wage Budget : £233k
Transfer Budget : £2.3M

So I went for minor improvements in a lot of free transfer players, but this killed my TS.

Apparently, starting with the players from a given team gives you larger starting budgets of roughly ten times as much cash available for each pot.

It really didn't feel like the TS rocketed. It was rising by a point a game for ages. Then I bought a player with the Team Player role and I'm guessing that all my pre-season buys finally learned the team system in the last few months of the season. It isn't actually buying new players that causes the problem, it's buying ones that aren't used to your system. If you play counter attack, wide and short passing, buying a player who was playing in another team that does this will fit in without damaging TS too much. Your scouts look for these players, which has actually made scouting slightly more useful. I still use Advanced Search for all my players though. I thought it would be like PES 2016 and that whoever I got in would learn my system in about 6 matches like last year. How wrong I was. And yes, I initially felt annoyed, but then treated it like being Moyes in charge of Sunderland. I really did enjoy turning them around. LOL

Hopefully, you'll avoid relegation and by then you'll have TS in a better place. Then phase two of your game can begin. If you do start again, the option to use the default PES players is one of the questions you get when starting a ML. I don't think either way is 'better' than the other, it's just whatever you fancy doing.

I have no idea how your wingers-to-giant tactic will go. It will be interesting to know though. :laugh:

I have only restricted myself to buying players that I need. So I've only really stopped myself from getting in players for resale. With the budget as it is, I can't afford to ignore the regens. It may well be that the salary budget stays too low to be able to keep a team of super star players, which was easy to achieve in PES 2016.

Ouch.. that is a pretty tight budget huh! Out of interest, it's not possible to re-allocate transfer funds and wage funds right? And with the original players I had a lot more; about £7,000,000 transfer budget and about £1,000,000 wage budget. Seems pretty accurate to me. Have you had the experience of making ridiculous levels of cash like last year? By 2024, I just had about £200,000,000 just sitting in the bank. Which was accurate given the context of the team, but they did just keep shoving money in my face all the time!

I will keep all of this in mind about TS. I am excited about the gradual transition of players who prefer counter attacking into a possession based team. As you say, with the greater restrictions in place it should be a lot harder to reach that point! Out of interest, who have you enjoyed playing with in your Master League this year? Are you doing well?

In respect of my wingers-to-giant tactics - I couldn't afford my giant However, in my first game with my two new fullbacks, they beat Newcastle (top of the league, Away and best defensive record) 2-3 with one player scoring my first hattrick of the save! And the RB got an assist too. It felt so sweet to see my two signings that I've scouted for months come into the team and actually pay off! (Saying that, I drew 0-0 against Ipswich in the game after hahah. Was the second team mind). But hopefully my 5-2-3 will finally start to pay off and I can end the season in a position befitting of the quality in the team

I noticed that last night, what you said about regens and wages. One popped up in my YA but he demanded £500,000 wages. Was great to know I couldn't just take him, though I do feel he would do wonders..
I also tried loaning players this year. Sanogo from Arsenal. Don't think he's even had a shot on target haha. (Come to think of it, it might be down to him being accustomed to possession based football...)

 

[DunkLFC]

It is satisfying when you get players in and they start to perform for you isn't it.

I'm looking forward to this weekend, when I'll get some time to spend on the game again.

I got the reborn Reyes in from the Youth Academy at the start of the season only to then have all his rivals in my team go through development spurts including my mini-me (I created myself in Become A Legend mode, saved him then and bought him from the Advanced Search option), so he is now the only player I have loaned out. He's only gone from 72 to 73 OVR so far at the club I loaned him to, so I'm not overly hopeful he'll progress much.

My best players are Sterling at LWF, mini-me as an AMF (played at the top right corner of the AMF zone), a striker with an unfortunate name (A Negro) and Morata. Regenerated Buffon is the only starting regen in my team at the moment, but I do have a regen CM on the border of breaking through.

I only have two of the original PES players left. One is Arcas, who has just moved up from the Rising Star role to one of the better ones that come after that (it's the one where if he is made captain, the rest of the team gain more match experience). That role is keeping him in the team at the moment, as his OVR is just drifting behind his rivals now. The other player is a RB who has had two growth spurts and gained the Leader role, which (like Arcas) is just keeping him in the team. I think he's 79 OVR at the moment.

 

[Kazuki_Ito]

It is satisfying when you get players in and they start to perform for you isn't it.

I'm looking forward to this weekend, when I'll get some time to spend on the game again.

I got the reborn Reyes in from the Youth Academy at the start of the season only to then have all his rivals in my team go through development spurts including my mini-me (I created myself in Become A Legend mode, saved him then and bought him from the Advanced Search option), so he is now the only player I have loaned out. He's only gone from 72 to 73 OVR so far at the club I loaned him to, so I'm not overly hopeful he'll progress much.

My best players are Sterling at LWF, mini-me as an AMF (played at the top right corner of the AMF zone), a striker with an unfortunate name (A Negro) and Morata. Regenerated Buffon is the only starting regen in my team at the moment, but I do have a regen CM on the border of breaking through.

I only have two of the original PES players left. One is Arcas, who has just moved up from the Rising Star role to one of the better ones that come after that (it's the one where if he is made captain, the rest of the team gain more match experience). That role is keeping him in the team at the moment, as his OVR is just drifting behind his rivals now. The other player is a RB who has had two growth spurts and gained the Leader role, which (like Arcas) is just keeping him in the team. I think he's 79 OVR at the moment.

Is the RB Giorza by any chance? Italian I think. I remember him being one of the better default players but I sold him cos I don't use full backs and he never really properly adapted to CB.

 

[DunkLFC]

Is the RB Giorza by any chance? Italian I think. I remember him being one of the better default players but I sold him cos I don't use full backs and he never really properly adapted to CB.

That's the fella. An RB who can play at LB so long as you don't mind a 4 OVR drop.

 

[Fruit&Barley]

So I just finished my first season in Coach Mode and.. well. I finished 23rd.

Won: 7
Draw: 21
Loss: 18
Goals for: 26
Against: 38

Turns out that Newcastle result was a bit of a false dawn as I went on a 12 game winless run haha. By the end my Team Spirit was 75 and my Team Strength was 72.

Reflecting on Coach Mode from this experience, I definitely think it's a great way to challenge yourself at the game. It's pretty easy to score 20 goals a season with a Striker who's already in the team, but when it comes to making the Striker score through your formation and tactics alone, his real qualities shine through. My main striker got 9 goals and my SS got 7. My pacey youngster got 0 (though he was robbed of his first through an Own Goal) and Sanogo (on loan) scored nothing too (average rating of 5.4 in fact). So from that I think, as Dunk said - Getting in a Striker with good finishing is a must.

The 20 draws obviously cost me. On the whole I didn't even create that many chances on goal, but when I did they were obviously poor quality shots. And with that, having some sort of dedicated provider is a must. I did try and bring in some good passers of the ball (Kimmich on Loan was a particular steal and a highlight) but ultimately, I needed someone who was more complete and was ideal for the tactics I play. I had high hopes for me Wingbacks but they only got 3 assists between them (probably would have been better if not for the donkey I called a Target man).

Formations I found tricky. The default one was 4-2-3-1 which in hindsight, would probably had paid off had I stuck to it. My 3-4-1-2 was very solid defensively and did have potential going forward, but I realised I should have set my team up for having 3 various formations that I could flick between to suit the opponent and circumstances. I did towards the end but despite being pretty attacking, it still couldn't break teams down. Again, perhaps it might have been different had I adopted it earlier.

- Other things I've learnt is to have strong options from the bench. A good chunk of goals came from fresh legs off the bench (though obviously not through my 2 backup forwards..).
- Getting a high team spirit as soon as possible is key. Poor results make it go up very slowly and that's only furthered through a low TS. I guess next time I will need to acquire some players with the 'Team Player' role. And I think playing players from the Youth Academy always seemed to provide a nice boost.
- The advanced instructions are vital in Coach Mode as they're the only way you can actively control a game. Having the right ones available per formation is very important and something I'll need to think about more in my new save.



That's most of what I have taken away. Please feel free to offer your own and hopefully it might inspire you to try it out if you haven't already. Time for me to start fresh in Serie B where hopefully I can perform better - before seeking a move to the Championship...