Demo gameplay First Impressions
- Thread starter Makavelian
- Start date
Konami is playing mind games. the game is already done and ready. i guarantee that. But they dont want to give you a 100% done demo so that people can still complain about something.
So rather than doing that they give you ane earlier version of the game code ( which has already been fixed and for which they already know all the issues. this is not rocket science). So we get this demo that we r playing, moan about the issues. So, at the end Konami send us the 100% done game with all issues fixed. People feel that Konami fix main issues. So they feel satisfy and purchase game.
Outcome :
Bad demo early and fixed game = More $$$$$ for Konami
with Good demo, gamers still find something to moan about. At the end nothing is fixed, gamers feel like KOnami doesnt listen = less $$$ for Konami
I truely believe in the end we will get a great game
So rather than doing that they give you ane earlier version of the game code ( which has already been fixed and for which they already know all the issues. this is not rocket science). So we get this demo that we r playing, moan about the issues. So, at the end Konami send us the 100% done game with all issues fixed. People feel that Konami fix main issues. So they feel satisfy and purchase game.
Outcome :
Bad demo early and fixed game = More $$$$$ for Konami
with Good demo, gamers still find something to moan about. At the end nothing is fixed, gamers feel like KOnami doesnt listen = less $$$ for Konami
I truely believe in the end we will get a great game
IronCity
Banned
I was thinking that also at first regarding the game is acutally finished Latdior but, knowing the way things work out they will be working on it until the last minute when it has to go to burn disc. They might not be listening as they have game players in house who are telling them.
The demo is only about creating stir and excitement pre-FIFA release. We are all talking about PES 2012 aren't we. If no demo no one would be talking about for another month.
The demo is only about creating stir and excitement pre-FIFA release. We are all talking about PES 2012 aren't we. If no demo no one would be talking about for another month.
Man i think they also dont want to give a good demo by showing their cards to EA. i think this is the only reason why we got used to seeing final games that do not look nothing like the demo.
Amateur
Registered User
On the positive side though, this could mean that a player with 95 PASSING SPEED will be much more noticeable as a result of "slow motion" passing, which would definitely be a positive.
That sounds a lot more logical and credible than the more popular theories about how "Konami should have never released two demos" which revolves around the idea that Konami are incredibly stupid; I mean, yes Konami has been stupid more often than not these past few years, but nonetheless I think it's more credible that Konami is doing precisely what you are saying.
1st -- Release a fucked up demo, not representative of the final game.
2nd -- Release final product, with all the little (non-core) issues fixed.
3rd -- Konami wins your simpathy because they released two demos, which shows confidence in their product and which is something that EA Sports has never done, and because Konami fixed all the little (non-core) issues that the first demo had.
It's a good strategy I must say, because at the end of the day, Konami really has it easy and can afford to employ such a simplistic strategy, they know that FIFA12 will be shit, they know that the same people will continue buying PES regardless of how shit PES is, because they know that FIFA will always be that bit more shittier than PES.
So after all, releasing a disappointing and underwhelming demo might actually be a good strategy, it will lower the expectations of everyone, and as a result everyone will be pleased by the smallest of improvements; Konami can afford to do it because FIFA is shit and there's no one else in the competition.
It's kinda like Arsenal, three years ago they would not be thinking about "ok" players, in their current situation, the fans will be pleased with just about any signing; lowering expectations is quite effective when you do not need to worry about the opposition, unfortunately for Arsenal, they had opposition to worry about, which is why they are in their current desperate situation.
MysteryMan
Registered User
Two problems
1. The speed is VERY slow once you put the speed on realistic player movement which is -1 and not only passing its crossing and shooting aswell, even on 0 the ball flies so very slow.
2. There are little differences between stats as of now, hopefully this is only true to this demo and they fix it in the next one but there is really very little difference between players with 70 or 80 stat in dribbling, passing etc...
Amateur, we are on the same page bro. This is all about mind games and capitalistic greed. it is the same reason why they dont want to give us the perfect game. Because if they did so, chances are that their next year sales would decrease. If people can go to the moon, they can make a perfect video game.
however, these two companies have a monopoly. they know that gamers dont have a choice and that s why they keep giving us this crap, and try to fool people by making little bitty incremental improvements. This industry needs another major football game developer in order to create competition so that these two companies can get their act together
however, these two companies have a monopoly. they know that gamers dont have a choice and that s why they keep giving us this crap, and try to fool people by making little bitty incremental improvements. This industry needs another major football game developer in order to create competition so that these two companies can get their act together
First of all placebo is no drug. Second of all "most effective" against which disease? The placebo group in a study receives the vehicle of the other groups and consequently placebo varies but it is no drug.
The marketing genius has spoken!
The psychologist has spoken!
By creating a poor demo, and then a good demo afterwards, the difference in both demos will create an impression that a lot of quirks, bugs glitches are fixed, which is intentional by konami. IMO what they fully intent is use this impressions to cover up the little to no additional feature in the pes 2012 game. The fixes itself is already an additional feature and a tool of promotion.
Seriously, what other features can pes 2012 offer besides off the ball movement and improved ai?
Seriously, what other features can pes 2012 offer besides off the ball movement and improved ai?
skickahit10
Registered User
Haha, amen! :laugh:
DIECI
Registered User
Ok buddy, you have your opinion and I have mine. Just out of curiosity, do you speak Japanese, or understand it, for that matter? If you are playing PES 2012 on Top Player and tinkering with the assisted settings, this would probably explain the perceived difference you are referring to? To be honest, there are too many variables that cannot be controlled in order to give a truly conclusive answer. So you may be just as mistaken as I am.Either way, there will be no difference between the final games, and if there is then Konami are going a bit loony and may have lost the plot. WE is a Japan exclusive, where as PES is worldwide. Their main objective is to sell their game, and based on a reference (http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/43332/pro-evolution-soccer-2011/), and you can see that Japan contributes 25% approx. of their total sales for the given period. It's not logical to cater for the minority.
Also the fact that WE 2012 was released first indicates that the game was ready. Now what you are saying is that instead of just porting the Jap version or translating it, they opt to create a completely different game? Surely, translating is the more rational choice and can't be so complicated as to cause a change in the code? It's a placebo dude, your mind really is playing tricks on you.
I downloaded WE 2012 a full 24 hours earlier, at least, and there is no conclusive way to test and discern any differences. For the experiment to be valid, you need a control, and for scenarios to be replicated almost perfectly. You need the following to be the same in all the test games:
1) Teams
2) Line Up
3) Form
4) Tactics
5) Difficulty Settings
6) AI assistance where relevant
Furthermore, I can't believe that Konami would double their work load and create a better game for Japan, honestly, as opposed to focusing on one game, and making a better product for everyone? It's not logical or wise?
quick answer, no I don't speak Japanese, but based from the Euro PES I could figure out how to set the menues, and tinker with the settings accordingly, its not hard really, its the same exact set up as PES. As for the games, I agree, I never said WE will be better, just that the current demo is a later build than the Euro pES counterpart thus making it more enjoyable with less bugs and more fluid play. Im sure Im not the only one playing the WE demo over the PEs one, its just a more advanced and better build. In the end YES the games will be the same.
Sabatasso
Banned
Drugs and medicine are not equivalent.
Anyway, I am not interested in discussing the details of placebo with you or anyone else. You did understand the link between faith or placebo and WE vs. PES?
WE and PES may be entirely different, but only if you fool yourself into believing so.
FutebolArte
Registered User
drugs are bad, m'kay...
WEs r ALWAYS better than PESs....
Actually better is a subjective word. Different would b better adjective (HA!).
Drug is often a used term for new entities being tested. No i dont need to discuss this with you.
Okay, so finally had that Eureka moment (or moments actually) last night whilst playing the demo. But it can in rather unusual circumstances. I had been playing the PES 2012 demo for a good week or so, but after initial success starting out, found that results were becoming harder to come by. Indeed, as Manchester United I had only beaten Milan once in around twelve games or so and was falling into bad habits of over-aggressive defending.
So here's what I did - ditched the game completely. I then played PES 6 for a whole day, followed by PES 2011 for the PS2. Let me tell you this has worked wonders. Not only has it re-honed my reflexes and again improved my defending style, but when I switched back to the PES 2012 demo (PS3), I had instant success.
My first game was as Manchester United against Milan. The first goal was a lovely patient build up move that involved frequent changes of direction before I played a stunning through ball which Berbatov finished in clinical style. The second goal was pure Giggs magic. A little give and go on the edge of the area with Rooney, which saw Giggs shimmy slightly onto his strong left peg before hitting an unstoppable shot into the roof of the net from 18 yards with Milan defenders tackling thin air.
It was a beautiful game, which I thoroughly deserved. Added to that because my defensive skills had been honed in the other said games, defending seemed much easier this time round. I hardly used sprint, I fell back into position and come to think of it rarely actually tackled. Instead relying on well timed interceptions and crafty re-positioning.
The next game I thought "this has to be a one off", so went Porto against Napoli. Again I played a similar style, with some patient lovely cross field stuff, but it was the next bit that kind of picked me up and had me believing that this type of goal is possible after not scoring one like it since I started playing. It was a fast counter move which seen two passes. A long pass from defence to open midfield, then a stunning long defence splitting through ball to the wing in which one of the strikers bore down on goals diagonally before cutting one back to the other striker who finished with aplomb.
Then a second goal! I hardly ever score more than one goal. Another wonderfully crafted move that saw me hold-up play two or three times, before a decisive little one-two split the defence for a lovely curling shot. The third - yes a third - came in the dying embers when Napoli were pressing, a nice move some me with some room in the box to hit a hard if somewhat speculative shot, which the keeper saved into the post and then in. A 2-0 against Milan and a 3-0 against Napoli. All on Top Player, with assistance off.
So, this just cannot be luck or coincidence. I firmly believe that by playing these two games on the PS2 - PES6 and PES2011, I was better tailored to dealing with the CPU AI and ensured that my defensive skills were patched. The one instant thing you notice when you go back is the pace of the game, you don't have a second to breath on the PS2. I shall play more today and no doubt get whooped after my successes of last night (lol), but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel in what I saw as dramatic progress for me.
So here's what I did - ditched the game completely. I then played PES 6 for a whole day, followed by PES 2011 for the PS2. Let me tell you this has worked wonders. Not only has it re-honed my reflexes and again improved my defending style, but when I switched back to the PES 2012 demo (PS3), I had instant success.
My first game was as Manchester United against Milan. The first goal was a lovely patient build up move that involved frequent changes of direction before I played a stunning through ball which Berbatov finished in clinical style. The second goal was pure Giggs magic. A little give and go on the edge of the area with Rooney, which saw Giggs shimmy slightly onto his strong left peg before hitting an unstoppable shot into the roof of the net from 18 yards with Milan defenders tackling thin air.
It was a beautiful game, which I thoroughly deserved. Added to that because my defensive skills had been honed in the other said games, defending seemed much easier this time round. I hardly used sprint, I fell back into position and come to think of it rarely actually tackled. Instead relying on well timed interceptions and crafty re-positioning.
The next game I thought "this has to be a one off", so went Porto against Napoli. Again I played a similar style, with some patient lovely cross field stuff, but it was the next bit that kind of picked me up and had me believing that this type of goal is possible after not scoring one like it since I started playing. It was a fast counter move which seen two passes. A long pass from defence to open midfield, then a stunning long defence splitting through ball to the wing in which one of the strikers bore down on goals diagonally before cutting one back to the other striker who finished with aplomb.
Then a second goal! I hardly ever score more than one goal. Another wonderfully crafted move that saw me hold-up play two or three times, before a decisive little one-two split the defence for a lovely curling shot. The third - yes a third - came in the dying embers when Napoli were pressing, a nice move some me with some room in the box to hit a hard if somewhat speculative shot, which the keeper saved into the post and then in. A 2-0 against Milan and a 3-0 against Napoli. All on Top Player, with assistance off.
So, this just cannot be luck or coincidence. I firmly believe that by playing these two games on the PS2 - PES6 and PES2011, I was better tailored to dealing with the CPU AI and ensured that my defensive skills were patched. The one instant thing you notice when you go back is the pace of the game, you don't have a second to breath on the PS2. I shall play more today and no doubt get whooped after my successes of last night (lol), but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel in what I saw as dramatic progress for me.
No mate, simply that after playing PS2 games where everything is faster, I seem to get more time to position and much more time to create attacks in the demo. If you can hold your own in Pes6 top player, and even more so in Pes 2011 PS2, I feel the new game becomes easier. May be just me, but I haven't won two consecutive games until last night and after I played the old games. Any thoughts yourself?