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How to Negate the Scripting?

baangus

Registered User
Why are people so easy to dismiss scripting, when plenty of people will tell you that it's there? We have the same arguments every year with PES. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

It's actually a good thing that you don't see it. You can enjoy the game more without feeling that you're fighting against the programming. :thumbsup:
Why do people create conspiracy theories about being powerless to stop the CPU from scoring? I suppose it's easier than learning how to edit the game programming, and how to use the sliders and tactics to keep the CPU from scoring.

I eliminated all the 45 and 90 minute CPU goals form my game, took me some time learning how and what to adjust in the tactics and programming. If you want to keep believing you're powerless, that's your choice I guess. But there's a whole website of FIFA modders and gamers at soccergaming who are aware of how to edit the game in this manner.

Anyway, if you want to learn how to achieve all this with FIFA, I'm willing to help. Otherwise, happy gaming.
 

Parkinfed

Registered User
I haven't really explored the tactics at all, since I just don't know that much about football strategy/tactics. Where could I go to learn about that?

There is a user called klashman. He does great tactics work and his threads were a huge help for me a few years ago. I'll link a few threads for you:

A thread on this site[2014]

Threads on other sites
[2015]
[2014].

Also, read the help menu in the game plan menu for sliders explanation, they vary each year more or less.
 

Ali

It is happening again
Why do people create conspiracy theories about being powerless to stop the CPU from scoring? I suppose it's easier than learning how to edit the game programming, and how to use the sliders and tactics to keep the CPU from scoring.

So when the opposition crosses it into my box, the attacker hits a weak header directly at my gk, my gk doesn't make any attempt to catch or parry the ball... just watches it bounce off him, then decides to flop on the floor and parry it into the path of another on rushing attacker...... you're saying I can do something about this?? :hmm:

You believe what you want to believe, but it's not a crackpot conspiracy theory. When you can tell there's going to be goal before the ball even gets near your box, you know there's something up!

I mean, the OP even mentions conceding a goal straight after scoring one. It's uncanny the amount of times this happens, and it can't be a fluke.

The thing is, they are unable to create AI intelligent enough, so that's why this scripting happens. Until they make big improvements with the programming of AI, they do these things to balance the matches, otherwise you'll just end up winning 5-0 every match.
 

baangus

Registered User
So when the opposition crosses it into my box, the attacker hits a weak header directly at my gk, my gk doesn't make any attempt to catch or parry the ball... just watches it bounce off him, then decides to flop on the floor and parry it into the path of another on rushing attacker...... you're saying I can do something about this?? :hmm:
Fixed that in FIFA two years ago. Requires the PC version, Creation Master and DataBase Master editing tools, and Microsoft Excel.
 

Ali

It is happening again
Ok, so to fix the scripting you have to have the PC version and mod the shit out of it...... great.

 

RBENJAMIN

Registered User
That's a good point. I haven't really explored the tactics at all, since I just don't know that much about football strategy/tactics. Where could I go to learn about that? Thanks again for all the input. I'm learning to appreciate the game more.

As someone has said there was a tactics help page from PES '13 which explained the sliders and I got to grips with tactics from that thread. Also, listening to pundits on the TV, I've actually picked up some useful tips from Gary Neville & Glen Hoddle.

It also helps to know how you want your team to play and how the player roles affect your teams shape, for example a right winger will play a bit differently to a right wing forward, and central midfielder will perform differently to a defensive midfielder etc etc.

How do you want your teams to play? and what tactics would you like advice on?
 

baangus

Registered User
Apparently many people lack the ability to see it. So funny lol.
Apparently many people would rather just pretend it's unfixable rather than head on over to soccergaming or evoweb and spend the time learning how to fix it. So funny lol etc. and so forth.
 

TeknoBug

Registered User
Ok, so to fix the scripting you have to have the PC version and mod the shit out of it...... great.

If you're referring to FIFA, definitely yes, it's really bad in that series and if you know EA well they tend to go overboard with the AI and other stuff. So far I haven't really had any problems with it in PES, I remember in PES 13 it was there once in a while but this year it seems milder than ever and it seems to be the sweet spot for me, I've had a few challenging encounters but nothing that made me throw a tantrum. NHL 15 is the worst in that aspect with the so called "ice tilt", I've put 110-150% effort into beating the CPU only for it to gimp my own team and score on me consistently and made me want to pull my hair, glad I traded away that buggered up game.
 

shaun7

Registered User
There's actually a fine line between scripting and AI programming, but basically they're the same. I know it sounds contradictory, but every type of AI programming NEEDS scripting.

What Pes and Fifa (I haven't played the new ones yet, because I am waiting for Dragon Age) lack (especially Fifa in this case) is proper AI programming that is not able to compensate for the player actually being good, so in order to make the AI appear stronger than they really are, they throw in cheap gimmicks that leave the player powerless to do anything to counter it. That is the "bad" scripting that football game players are referring to.

That is a bloody cheap way to make the AI appear more competent that it actually is.
 

sillen102

Registered User
The thing is, they are unable to create AI intelligent enough, so that's why this scripting happens. Until they make big improvements with the programming of AI, they do these things to balance the matches, otherwise you'll just end up winning 5-0 every match.


This part that I quoted is actually not true. It's the other way around. They can make the AI so good that it will destroy any human player in any game and never make a misstake. Simply calculate all the options of what you can do from a position and find the optimal position for the defenders to be in to stop your attack. And in attack just calculate which one of your players is just an inch in the wrong position and exploit it. It's not that hard. A computer can make millons of calculations per second. But how fun would that be?

The hard part is making the AI make misstakes...sometimes. And then balance it to simulate a human beeing.


One of the first things you learn in computer programing is that it's no such thing as random when it comes to computers. There are already written random generators in almost every computer language and that you can use in your own programs but none of them are really random. They are more or less random to a human being depending on how well the programers made them and how complex and accurate you need them to be.

A computer is basically a calculator. If you input something it will calculate it and output something. This is the basic. A computer game is simply a whole bunch of calculations.

Asking a computer to do something random is very hard becouse what you're basically doing is asking it to give you a diffrent output everytime but for the same input. It's like if you would ask it to calculate 2+2 (which is 4) but you want the computer to sometimes give you the answer 5 and sometimes 6. It's just not logical!


As far as scripting it's the same for your goalkeeper. He has to sometimes make mistakes to simulate a human goalkeeper. Human goalkeepers also tend to do stupid things....sometimes. It happens to the best ones. They're human! Just look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiMP2yvI8aI


The hard part is taking this into a computer game. Therefore I believe sometimes these "random" things can seem scripted. How could you make a goalkeeper misstake look like a misstake on a computer game without it looking scripted?


Also, f.i. IRL a team is most vulnerable right after scoring and it might be so that the programers took this into the equasion of the probability for when some things might occur.


I think the biggest problem with players that play games is that they would like their players to act like machines. But not the AI players.

F.i. You would want your goalkeeper to always make saves on certain type of shots, just like you expected your goalkeeper to save that simple ball but wouldn't get mad if it was a smashed shot into the top corner (and keeper in games thend to sometimes save those as well). But for a computer there is no diference between a "simple" ball and a hard one. It's just input. It's a bit of a double standard I think.

Also if goalkeepers in a game never ever made such misstakes then the game would not be realistic. The problem begins when they make huge amount of misstakes like the one you discribe. Then it's a shitty game!
 

Ali

It is happening again
[MENTION=226958]sillen102[/MENTION]

I suppose it could go both ways. Create AI that's too easy to beat, or AI that's too tough.

The thing is with these "mistakes", is that they often don't feel like mistakes, they feel like bad programming. Take my GK incident for example (which actually happened in Fifa, I should add). To be fair, I've seen a fair fee GK cockups in PES, but nothing like this. It was the type of incident that you'd never see happen for the CPU, or in real life. Wish I had recorded so I can show you how bad it was. Obviously I can accept that players make mistakes..... but this was..... just fucking ludicrous. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

You're right about nothing being "random". Everything in a game is coded, so every deflection, every flick on is programmed to go where it goes.

I'm happy for there to be scripting, but as I said, they need to make it less obvious.
 

LanceButters

Registered User
There shoulndt be any scripting/handicapping imo, especially on human vs human online. Its basically cheating. Just because its coming from a company doesnt mean its less bad.

I had games without scripting on fifa and pes. It works just fine. The Purpose of scripting to make you keep trying over and over after loss and get you addicted. The game nicely puts you in a winning streak then handicaps the shit out of you. Yoiu then keep trying because you know you were better than this. You wont stop until you reach the point again. This is a lame tactic ea uses as well. Of i knew that before i wouldnt have bought the game. Adam told me there isnt scripting in this game. Even worse that they lie at their custommers. This is my last pes.
 

orzy

Registered User
I'm LOVING the game!

Do I think there is scripting? Honestly I don't care. I was playing a ML FA Cup semi game vs Man U with my 15th place Crystal Palace team and I lost the game despite outshooting them 8-1 and I hit 3 goalposts. Did it feel like scripting when I missed the wide open net from 6 feet away? Yes. But do I care? No. Why? Because it only adds to the difficulty of the game which is fine by me and it means that when I eventually do beat Man U and win my first FA Cup its going to be extra sweet because it means I overcame the team and the possible scripting.

The best way to overcome scripting is to play better and score more goals, something that will come wiht more time spent with the game.

I just see a lot of inpatient people here who are struggling to play well and are looking for excuses.

You don't like scripting? Score more goals! Stop whining.
 

sillen102

Registered User
There shoulndt be any scripting/handicapping imo, especially on human vs human online. Its basically cheating. Just because its coming from a company doesnt mean its less bad.

I had games without scripting on fifa and pes. It works just fine. The Purpose of scripting to make you keep trying over and over after loss and get you addicted. The game nicely puts you in a winning streak then handicaps the shit out of you. Yoiu then keep trying because you know you were better than this. You wont stop until you reach the point again. This is a lame tactic ea uses as well. Of i knew that before i wouldnt have bought the game. Adam told me there isnt scripting in this game. Even worse that they lie at their custommers. This is my last pes.


I don't think it's scripting. It's just that they have programmed the game AI to sometimes make misstakes and you sometimes happen to be on the short end of it. The problem is that we human tend to generalize and our perceptions is many times at fault. We often perceive things differently then they really are. We usually tend to "feel" things rather then make up our minds based on what is true statistically and logically. For instance I bet you seldom see what you call scripting when you are the one benefiting it. But when your players make misstakes a couple of times you see them and then your mind makes a judgement in a state of upset that this is what happens a lot.

In real life players make the dumbest misstakes. I mean look at what happened in the game between Borussia Dortmund and Borussia Mönchengladbach last week. Christophe Kramer, a german international who played in the World Cup final this summer, scored an own goal from half way out and they ended up loosing 1-0. Unbelievable right?! Never happened before! Scripting?! :unsure:

I'm just saying that for a game to be realistic these things have to somehow be inserted into the game. Do the programers sometimes mess it up and make some stupid shit occur way too often? Well, hell yes! But they're also human.

Also this is what I was talking about when I said it's a bit of a double standard. You would like your own AI-controlled players to be predictable machines and not make silly errors. Right? Well I bet the Mönchengladbach coach also felt shitty after his best player makes a misstake like that and costs the team the whole game but since it's not a computer game he can't say it's scripting. But if it were a computer game, and he was like you, then he might have said that.
 

LanceButters

Registered User
lol i can't deal. People really compare it to real life.

Who you think is responsible for the mistakes the players do in real life? Exactly the players themself. Who is responsible for those mistakes in pes? A 3rd party. How can you even compare that?

There are mistakes me and my opponent do by ourself, there shouldnt be some engine or however anyone want to call it generating mistakes. It just makes the endresult of a game unreal.

And fyi i see it by myself. Especially seen it in fifa by myself thats why i came to pes. You and alot of people lack awareness.

And i also done what kramer did byself, which was then my fault.
 

sillen102

Registered User
lol i can't deal. People really compare it to real life.

Who you think is responsible for the mistakes the players do in real life? Exactly the players themself. Who is responsible for those mistakes in pes? A 3rd party. How can you even compare that?

There are mistakes me and my opponent do by ourself, there shouldnt be some engine or however anyone want to call it generating mistakes. It just makes the endresult of a game unreal.

And fyi i see it by myself. Especially seen it in fifa by myself thats why i came to pes. You and alot of people lack awareness.

And i also done what kramer did byself, which was then my fault.


Well the thing is you can't really have two sets of AI's. If you program an AI to sometimes make misstakes then the AI players will make them regardless of if it's a CPU vs. CPU, Player vs. CPU or Player vs. Player game. The players in your team and your opponents team that you're not controlling are controlled by the AI, hence they will make misstakes. It's just part of the game.

And if the game isn't supposed to try and simulate football as it is IRL, then what's the point of it? That's why they try to implement randomness in the game so that it would feel more like real life football. That's the goal.


You have to start thinking of the game as sort of an environment, a stage that you and you opponent are in and compete at. Sometimes the environment will work to your advantage and sometimes not. It's just how things are. If you are way superior to your opponent it won't matter because it will just be f.i. if you win 5-0 or 5-1. But in close games it might sometimes however turn the game in someones favor. Just like Kramer's own goal might not have mattered if they were 3-0 up. But now it turned up to be the only goal of the game.

Sometimes the silly things that happen IRL aren't the player's fault. I remember a goal that Stan Collymore scored many years ago (I'm sure there are many more examples similar to this one but it's the one I come to think of right away). He took a shot from a long way out. Must have been something like 30 yards. The shot was so shit that the ball hardly made it to the goal. The goalkeeper went down on his knee to simply scoop it up. And the ball hits a tumble of grass about a yard in front of the keeper, bounces over his shoulder and into the goal. A misstake from the keeper?! Not really, the ball was rolling towards his hands at pass speed, hardly a shot and then takes a bounce off of a little tumble of grass infront of him. Can't blame him for the pitch being uneven. The same aplies to you and the game.
If you wan't the game to be realistic then it sometimes has to be unpredictable.


Also, I thing you are already prejudiced and every time you see some weird thing happening in a game you think "SCRIPTING! It's Big Brother EA against me". I really can't make any argument that will make a difference I'm afraid, you can either accept that weird shit sometimes happen, because they want the game to feel realistic, or not. It's up to you.


On funny bounces, just look at this video :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDfQZNs94Os&spfreload=10

BTW Stan Collymore's goal that I mentioned is the second one in the video (No.9) and I especially like the goal ranked as no.3 :laugh:
 

Parkinfed

Registered User
[MENTION=180348]Ali[/MENTION] Could you please shift all the discussion on scripting to a different thread? Its a topic without any real transparent info available and everyone has opinions. Reading the last few posts I am convinced that no party to this discussion will change their view. So, please if you think it right, shift the scripting talk to another thread maybe or rename this one instead. Thanks.
 

baangus

Registered User
Judging from the big text you dont seem to get it. Fine. I wont bother reading.
That's partly my mistake, I assumed you wanted help getting rid of the scripting, that's why I offered all that tactics advice and posted that screen shot. But apparently all you want is to internet-forum-moan-and-complain about it. That's fine by me, you go be miserable if that's what you need.
 
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