Konami, please take action, or we take action!

[mobosecomin]

the skill involved in playing pes is learning how to play within the limitations of the game and exploiting the limitations also.

the game is what it is.the so called flaws are part of the game simmilar to the flaws of referees in a real soccer match.me and my mates have realised this but some are better than others at exploiting the flaws.for instance i still see what looks like a special run and the through pass never finds the mark.my friend see the same run but dose not pass because he knows the move will not work from experience..this leaves me extreemly frustrated but dose not bother my friend.. we have put up average 2400hrs a year on pes 4 5 6 .... did not play 08 more than 200hrs ... and are on the way to playing alot more 09 but we are never going to get near the time spent on the earlier versions..we do feel the development has slowed and some of the progress made in earlier versions have been lost improoving different aspects of the game..we feel that the game has got less enjoyable to play (lets say 6 was most entertaining) 8 was bad and 9 is a little better.. we are optimistic that this improvment will continue .. if it dose and the next gen consoles will be able to handle the complex game engines neccessary i see pro evo returning to its previous entertaining best within the next fer years .. but untill then unless you can learn to play within the flaws you will never be a WINNER ..


also from the posts here i can gague that alot of the people posting in this thread have never competed at sports in a high level .. its the competion not the game .. theirs chance involved in every game ..

SO just to sum up i agree the game is s**t but we still play ...

 

[jccondep]

The language for comments should be set and remain in the language you desire. I have the problem that every time I want to play PES I need to change the comments during the game language.

 

[tosheus]

a bit lazy?

there are a lot of flaws, however i found it just takes longer to master this time round.. for the first 2 months i was so frustrated, i thought 2009 was a joke. but i stuck with it and my patience was rewarded.. i now consider 2009 to be the best version yet, simple as that. the ball and player physics are near perfect, and some of the goals and free kicks i've scored.. unbelievable! the passing is so realistic, when you take the time to master it you'll find a player with stats of 85 or above for accuracy will spread the ball all over the place.. the tricks now actually help you rather than just being there to look good. and the edit mode is a better. not in a big way, but better.....
Now.... the problems i've encountered are more to do with konami than the game. on occasion the keeper has dropped the ball at the com's players feet which resulted in me getting beat... a glitch at first i thought, until various other things started happening without actually pressing a button... over time i came to realise that it is quite easy to beat the computer on top player. so instead of putting in more work to make the game harder, i think the notoriously lazy pes crew have just put in some sort of cheat.. so regardless of how well you play, at any given time, when the com decides, it simply makes you give up the ball and scores.. This isn't me crying coz i got beat, i got a few mates round, pure evo heads, and played 3 master league games in front of them.. they all noticed when i pointed it out. and as a result 2 of them decided, for the first time, to give fifa a go. If it's not fair, it's no good... it's pointless trying to buy in all the best players, trying your hardest.. then when you come up against the com in the deciding match of the season, or a cup final, the com simply decides to win... if there's no way you can win the league. why the f**k bother playing all season.... Also, where's the snow? and here's one, why not have inter squad 5 a side for training instead of running around a full size pitch passing to each other... oh, and something else regarding the stats, outside of the really famous players, there is the odd player who can kick a ball straight. so why not do all the players? too much graft eh? no wonder pes is getting slated by fifa.... erm.. nice ball physics though...

 

[iamcanadianeh]

there are a lot of flaws, however i found it just takes longer to master this time round.. for the first 2 months i was so frustrated, i thought 2009 was a joke. but i stuck with it and my patience was rewarded.. i now consider 2009 to be the best version yet, simple as that. the ball and player physics are near perfect, and some of the goals and free kicks i've scored.. unbelievable! the passing is so realistic, when you take the time to master it you'll find a player with stats of 85 or above for accuracy will spread the ball all over the place.. the tricks now actually help you rather than just being there to look good. and the edit mode is a better. not in a big way, but better.....
Now.... the problems i've encountered are more to do with konami than the game. on occasion the keeper has dropped the ball at the com's players feet which resulted in me getting beat... a glitch at first i thought, until various other things started happening without actually pressing a button... over time i came to realise that it is quite easy to beat the computer on top player. so instead of putting in more work to make the game harder, i think the notoriously lazy pes crew have just put in some sort of cheat.. so regardless of how well you play, at any given time, when the com decides, it simply makes you give up the ball and scores.. This isn't me crying coz i got beat, i got a few mates round, pure evo heads, and played 3 master league games in front of them.. they all noticed when i pointed it out. and as a result 2 of them decided, for the first time, to give fifa a go. If it's not fair, it's no good... it's pointless trying to buy in all the best players, trying your hardest.. then when you come up against the com in the deciding match of the season, or a cup final, the com simply decides to win... if there's no way you can win the league. why the f**k bother playing all season.... Also, where's the snow? and here's one, why not have inter squad 5 a side for training instead of running around a full size pitch passing to each other... oh, and something else regarding the stats, outside of the really famous players, there is the odd player who can kick a ball straight. so why not do all the players? too much graft eh? no wonder pes is getting slated by fifa.... erm.. nice ball physics though...

Haven't noticed the AI cheats myself. Are you talking about BAL or ML?

 

[fick]

Anyone actually taken action yet...

 

[tosheus]

Haven't noticed the AI cheats myself. Are you talking about BAL or ML?

ML mate, or champions league or whatever... It is an actual issue, i'm not in a huff! Also, is there any short cut to unlocking classic players, new haircuts/boots etc... i'll be f***ed if i'm gonna put myself through a world cup with Japan just for some yellow boots...

 

[willmo]

this game is a shiny version of the last one. what a pile . totally agree with the thread starter. i can honestly say that i havent played a game since before christmas . i cant believe its this bad, for me there really is no alternative game tho , so , i think im gonna hang up my joypad til the next one is out.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

ML mate, or champions league or whatever... It is an actual issue, i'm not in a huff! Also, is there any short cut to unlocking classic players, new haircuts/boots etc... i'll be f***ed if i'm gonna put myself through a world cup with Japan just for some yellow boots...

I think you should start a new thread on this and see what others think. I don't think you're making it up (why would you do that?), but from my perspective I can honestly say I've never personally seen what you're talking about.

 

[trigglebeef]

there are a lot of flaws, however i found it just takes longer to master this time round.. for the first 2 months i was so frustrated, i thought 2009 was a joke. but i stuck with it and my patience was rewarded.. i now consider 2009 to be the best version yet, simple as that. the ball and player physics are near perfect, and some of the goals and free kicks i've scored.. unbelievable! the passing is so realistic, when you take the time to master it you'll find a player with stats of 85 or above for accuracy will spread the ball all over the place.. the tricks now actually help you rather than just being there to look good. and the edit mode is a better. not in a big way, but better.....
Now.... the problems i've encountered are more to do with konami than the game. on occasion the keeper has dropped the ball at the com's players feet which resulted in me getting beat... a glitch at first i thought, until various other things started happening without actually pressing a button... over time i came to realise that it is quite easy to beat the computer on top player. so instead of putting in more work to make the game harder, i think the notoriously lazy pes crew have just put in some sort of cheat.. so regardless of how well you play, at any given time, when the com decides, it simply makes you give up the ball and scores.. This isn't me crying coz i got beat, i got a few mates round, pure evo heads, and played 3 master league games in front of them.. they all noticed when i pointed it out. and as a result 2 of them decided, for the first time, to give fifa a go. If it's not fair, it's no good... it's pointless trying to buy in all the best players, trying your hardest.. then when you come up against the com in the deciding match of the season, or a cup final, the com simply decides to win... if there's no way you can win the league. why the f**k bother playing all season.... Also, where's the snow? and here's one, why not have inter squad 5 a side for training instead of running around a full size pitch passing to each other... oh, and something else regarding the stats, outside of the really famous players, there is the odd player who can kick a ball straight. so why not do all the players? too much graft eh? no wonder pes is getting slated by fifa.... erm.. nice ball physics though...

Are you a schizo? Bit of a change of course half way through that bad boy.

 

[MachineHead]

Are you a schizo? Bit of a change of course half way through that bad boy.

Well I know for sure that the NHL-series by EA has the kind of cheats tosheus is talking about. Because of that, I easily begin to see such features in other games(inc. pes), too, so I can understand tosheus. However, in pes I've come to the conclusion that it's just me being shit when the com scores at the last minutes. Particularly when you are waiting for it, it will easily happen.

 

[tosheus]

Are you a schizo? Bit of a change of course half way through that bad boy.

ha ha, that was the point mate. quite extreme opinions at both ends of the good/bad scale.. it's something i'll never know for sure, so i'll have to get used to it i suppose. i would imagine in a real game, the ref could be a intimidated by the crowd, so i'll have to equate it with that... coz i'm not putting my controller down...

 

[tosheus]

Well I know for sure that the NHL-series by EA has the kind of cheats tosheus is talking about. Because of that, I easily begin to see such features in other games(inc. pes), too, so I can understand tosheus. However, in pes I've come to the conclusion that it's just me being shit when the com scores at the last minutes. Particularly when you are waiting for it, it will easily happen.

machinehead... i know that feeling... sitting, waiting.. then bang! you just know it's coming..
maybe it is just that, who knows.. but a spot on way of looking at it, seriously mate, cheers...

 

[Hans Hitman]

This is a long thread and there's a lot I'd like to respond to. Like tosheus said and what I think EVERYONE who complains is complaining about, the game definitely has built in sabotage. The sabotage factor is incorporated into every part of game play--passing to a direction your not aiming at or to a player whose being marked by 3 defenders when there's a player WIDE open and you're aiming at the open player, the keeper dishing the ball right to the striker following a shot, strikers who miss open goals (which happens in real life all the time), etc... I think that konami thinks it makes the game realistic in that it's unpredictable like real life. It has always been a part of PES. It's a good concept, but Konami has always executed it poorly. The programmers need to be a little bit more creative with the algorithms that control this variable in order for the "human error factor" to be more realistic and less "WTF."

My guess is that the algorithms that run the game platform are so vastly complicated that not even the Konami programmers know what the hell is going on anymore. They're probably afraid to tweak anything very much for fear that the whole thing will stop working. I doubt they have the budget to really address the problems that everyone is complaining about. I would hope they would if they could, but my guess is, they can't. So I'm going to continue to yell at my TV and cry in my beer and play some more PES2009. BTW, Konami, maybe you don't need to release a new version of the game every year. Maybe you need to put a little more time into each new release. Maybe, "A little more teamwork was needed."

This game drives me crazy, I hate it, but I love it and I can't stop playing it.

Edit: I feel like I need to mention Forza here. The racing games perfect the physics of their game. They do not, however, then decide to sabotage the perfect physics. Why? Because, if in Forza my car suddenly careened off the track for no reason, ALL THE TIME, I would quickly lose interest. So why is it that PES thinks this acceptable?

 

[Amateur]

This is a long thread and there's a lot I'd like to respond to. Like tosheus said and what I think EVERYONE who complains is complaining about, the game definitely has built in sabotage. The sabotage factor is incorporated into every part of game play--passing to a direction your not aiming at or to a player whose being marked by 3 defenders when there's a player WIDE open and you're aiming at the open player, the keeper dishing the ball right to the striker following a shot, strikers who miss open goals (which happens in real life all the time), etc... I think that konami thinks it makes the game realistic in that it's unpredictable like real life. It has always been a part of PES. It's a good concept, but Konami has always executed it poorly. The programmers need to be a little bit more creative with the algorithms that control this variable in order for the "human error factor" to be more realistic and less "WTF."

My guess is that the algorithms that run the game platform are so vastly complicated that not even the Konami programmers know what the hell is going on anymore. They're probably afraid to tweak anything very much for fear that the whole thing will stop working. I doubt they have the budget to really address the problems that everyone is complaining about. I would hope they would if they could, but my guess is, they can't. So I'm going to continue to yell at my TV and cry in my beer and play some more PES2009. BTW, Konami, maybe you don't need to release a new version of the game every year. Maybe you need to put a little more time into each new release. Maybe, "A little more teamwork was needed."

This game drives me crazy, I hate it, but I love it and I can't stop playing it.

Konami should start releasing PES every 2 Years, this Yearly Tweaks aren't worth the money. I'm definitely not buying PES 2010 if the animations and movements remain the same.

And if the "programmers are probably afraid to tweak anything very much for fear that the whole thing will stop working" -- what's the point of Next Gen Consoles if nobody knows how to make them work ??

I think it's ridiculous, if it weren't for the "Blu Ray" player I'd say it's a scam.

 

[Hans Hitman]

I was talking about the PES algorithms, not the game system like xbox or playstation. Any computer program gets tweaked for every new release. After years of new releases, there are completely different groups of people working on the program. The people who are currently working on PES have probably never even met the original programmers. I doubt if any of them fully understand everything that's happening in the program as a whole. There's a team here, a team there, a project manager for this group, another for that group. Think about it, this program is 10 years in the making and it's very, very complicated. Good luck, Konami.

 

[WEFORLIFE]

The fans already took action. The significant drop in sales tells everything. Now, it is Konami's turn to do something. I just hate Konami for release such a lousy gameplay. The AI is really really dumb...kills the fun of the game. Who want to play anymore if feels no more fun when playing? Those who leave PES must be have non positive feeling towards PES. Simple facts.

How come Konami end up like this..What a disaster. PES2009 might have high chance to be the most lousy game ever in PS3. Good luck PES/WE.

 

[Amateur]

I was talking about the PES algorithms, not the game system like xbox or playstation. Any computer program gets tweaked for every new release. After years of new releases, there are completely different groups of people working on the program. The people who are currently working on PES have probably never even met the original programmers. I doubt if any of them fully understand everything that's happening in the program as a whole. There's a team here, a team there, a project manager for this group, another for that group. Think about it, this program is 10 years in the making and it's very, very complicated. Good luck, Konami.

Yeah, which is Why I would prefer it if they would release a solid effort every Two Years. One year just isn't enough.

 

[Usul]

So much passion in this thread. :lol:

 

[zainchelski]

The fans already took action. The significant drop in sales tells everything. Now, it is Konami's turn to do something. I just hate Konami for release such a lousy gameplay. The AI is really really dumb...kills the fun of the game. Who want to play anymore if feels no more fun when playing? Those who leave PES must be have non positive feeling towards PES. Simple facts.

How come Konami end up like this..What a disaster. PES2009 might have high chance to be the most lousy game ever in PS3. Good luck PES/WE.

na fifa 07 won that already it the worst footy game ever to grace ps3 konami need to go back to there roots were they were the best footy game ever it amazed us it made us feel like we were on pitch i would give anything to see that game agn in nxt gen i honestly do think seebass will sort it as he is only person who will lets just give the guy time wat ever pes is like i will always buy it as i love it but fifa 09 this year looks appealing as alot of my mates tell me its great i dont want to switch to fifa i will give seebass the time he deserves as he is the best guy for the job can u amagin how many things that could go wrong if seebass was took of this but this is only the way i see it others will see it differrent and we all reserve the right to wat we think ty

 

[sandaweches]

I was talking about the PES algorithms, not the game system like xbox or playstation. Any computer program gets tweaked for every new release. After years of new releases, there are completely different groups of people working on the program. The people who are currently working on PES have probably never even met the original programmers. I doubt if any of them fully understand everything that's happening in the program as a whole. There's a team here, a team there, a project manager for this group, another for that group. Think about it, this program is 10 years in the making and it's very, very complicated. Good luck, Konami.

This a game not a Nasa exploration project! on what basis are you even talking about programming and program management? and what are you talking about regarding programmers not meeting each other and that they don't have an understanding of the program as a whole?!?!? where did u get that info from?!?

off coarse the program takes effort to design and build, but it is "very very complicated" to you because you are not in game development.

Now the deficiencies that you see in the game, be it glitches or AI stuff are software bugs that are inevitable in software development. Some are even related to features or functionalities they decide to implement. With feedback, the programmers can enhance or modify the code to cater for the majority of PES gamers.

the "tweaking" that you guys are talking about is a continual process and even if they waited for two years (as some have mentioned) there will still be bugs and fixes and features that some won't like. in every software development process there is design, development and testing before the final release. Some bugs can be undetected and thus customers report such bugs back to Konami. Some feature likes/dislikes are also reported back to the company and then they have to prioritize all the "list of to-do's" and decide which to do for the next release.

so it's only natural to release games annually and gradually modify them to suit their customers' needs. Since Konami now seems to be aware of the pesgaming community's issue with the game most certainly they will use that info to update the game for next releases.

So stop making it sound like it's a wild beast of an experiment that is out of control and that no one knows whats going on or where it is headed. Its a software development process no different from any other software development procedure.