I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and the more I think of it the more I feel that KONAMI may be right in the way the game is.
Yesterday we had that Chelsea game, end to end for the full ninety, much like any Premiership game is. I kind of disagree with you about that Inter v Juve match being more sim, that was even more end to end in the first half than the Chelsea game lol!! Right until the players were just knackered and Juve played keep ball.
Now I had played four games of PES this morning on PS3 setup on my 37" LCD. The game was on zero gamespeed, pre patch, which I now believe to be the speed at which the game was intended (to not break the game or have any funny things happening) but it provides the opportunity to play really fast or even slow. For example I had 2 games of proper rough and tumble Premiership stuff back and forth possession, then a typical Euro game were it was a slower followed by a game against West Brom which was played at a snail's pace, all this on gamespeed 0. Now the reason was a combination of things I believe, tactics, the way they attacked and the way I attacked, and my use of sprint too much in the first games and the hardly touching sprint in the last game (this game I won 4-1 by the way and totally mullarised them, which proves take your foot off the gas (sprint button) works in PES).
What I'm trying to say is that the game offered me various ways to play on gamespeed 0 against different teams. The most open end to end game ended 0-0 v Newcastle ironically, and the tighter slower game I won 4-1.
Now onto my main point -
I firmly believe that we are experiencing a change in which football is being played, generally. I think it may be indicative of the now generation we are in, the now now now, me me me generation, but never did a Serie A game between Inter v Juve play like that yesterday. And we had that 4-3 game in which Milan were three nil down, that again was open end to end.
Managers/teams of yesteryear used to have more defensive line ups, with 4-4-2 being seen as the norm and the game tight. Nowadays the players are fitter, faster, more creative etc as well as a raft of other things like ball technology, rule changes all giving that game more speed all the time. I also think players are buying into this mentality. Whereas years ago both teams would be happy to let the other team have endless possession, now it's closing down, pressure and a general attitude of let's play end to end. It's almost as if the players themselves love the nature of this fast paced game. Think Carlos Tevez when I make this point, or Rooney hounding down the opposition.
This is why managers (from everywhere) love the Premier League so much, but I feel it's imparting itself on all other leagues. The Bundesliga years ago used to be awful to watch, now that's end to end with all teams giving it a go.
A team like Barce I feel cannot be used in this argument, the reason they play so slow in build up is because 99% of the time teams park the bus against them, so we have to take them out of the equation. But certainly Man Utd, Real Madrid, Bayern, Milan, Arsenal and a whole host of other premier teams are now all playing fast stuff. Watch Madrid, they are lightening these days.
This argument can be related to PES too. The term 'arcade' is often bandied about to anyone who likes a faster pace game. I have experimented over the last two months with every combination I can think of to get the best out of the game. I have PS3 version of PES and PC version. I played the PS3 version on different screens, different speeds, different settings and the same with the PC. I messed about with stuff so much that (including the patches) that I was dizzy. And after all that, do you know what I prefer the most after a month of faffing about?!? PES out of the box pre-patch on gamespeed 0 lol! The way it came.
It's each to their own, I understand that, but this is what I ENJOY the most. So yes, I do get a little confused at people's definition (and I've been in this boat of labelling too) of what game styles and speeds are.
For me the game 'runs at its best' on gamespeed 0, pre patch. On Top Player too, on the PS3 on my 37" tele, on my 50" plasma the game seems to break a little.
So yeah, my opinion is credit to KONAMI, as I do believe that the game is evolving and that there are far more 'arcade' games in real life than 'sim' ones if you want to categorise. I'm currently watching Sporting v Bilbao, and that is like gamespeed 0! I just think that a human's natural instinct is to attack and to attack quite fast, there are slow games I'm not saying, but these days the games are generally fast, with less ball retention and more creative risk.
I'm sure that for every example I can dig out that games are increasing in pace and speed someone who likes to play on gamespeed -2 can give a counter argument. I'm just providing an angle from which to look at. In trying to replicate the perfect game from the myriad of settings I took my eye off the ball and forgot to ask myself the main question, am I enjoying this? And the answer was no. NOW I AM!
The ironic thing is (pre patch, gamespeed 0) is that you'd think because of the more frantic nature of the gameplay that games would end up 5-5 or something lol, but THAT IS NOT THE CASE!! I'm getting more 0-0, 1-0 games but really good ones with more variation than ever before. And as I've mentioned even at gamespeed 0 pre patch, I'm getting a variation of how the games play out, from end to end lightning counters to more mundane games (like my 4-1 win v West Brom). I honestly believe that clashes of tactics make the game play out differently and not necessarily the game speed. The nil nil end to ender against Newcastle I had just must have been setup perfectly from both camps for the frantic game, whereas my West Brom clash, somehow, was tailor made for a slower game.
So in a nutshell, even my definition of 'sim' and what is going on in real life is changing after seeing many games over the last year from different countries. Formations are evolving (4-3-3 a few years ago would have been crucified, and even now some teams play 3-4-3!) with wing backs being attacking players and player switching become more prevalent. And I also believe that managers will have to evolve into a more faster paced game, I think even Fergie is going to have to acknowledge that a tactics/players change is needed after the noisy neighbours win.
On a side point, and just to finish off, all the pundits of yesteryear harp on about defending etc with Neville and Hansen and Dixon and co shaking their heads. But I do often wonder how even the legendary Arsenal back four would deal with the likes of Tevez, Aguero, SIlva, Torres (when at his best), Persie, Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Messi, Silva, Suarez etc etc. The fact is, that the game was more physicality based in bygone years. It is silly to compare players from different eras and have match ups because it's like comparing apples to cars. But these modern players are just so good now, so tricky, so fit and so confident that it must be a nightmare for defenders and defences these days. Whilst it doesn't excuse yesterdays 5-3, the pressure on defences is now so huge that errors will become more prone.
Would Adams and Keown have fared so well these days, with everything from ref decisions, to rule changes going in the favour of attackers?
Yesterday we had that Chelsea game, end to end for the full ninety, much like any Premiership game is. I kind of disagree with you about that Inter v Juve match being more sim, that was even more end to end in the first half than the Chelsea game lol!! Right until the players were just knackered and Juve played keep ball.
Now I had played four games of PES this morning on PS3 setup on my 37" LCD. The game was on zero gamespeed, pre patch, which I now believe to be the speed at which the game was intended (to not break the game or have any funny things happening) but it provides the opportunity to play really fast or even slow. For example I had 2 games of proper rough and tumble Premiership stuff back and forth possession, then a typical Euro game were it was a slower followed by a game against West Brom which was played at a snail's pace, all this on gamespeed 0. Now the reason was a combination of things I believe, tactics, the way they attacked and the way I attacked, and my use of sprint too much in the first games and the hardly touching sprint in the last game (this game I won 4-1 by the way and totally mullarised them, which proves take your foot off the gas (sprint button) works in PES).
What I'm trying to say is that the game offered me various ways to play on gamespeed 0 against different teams. The most open end to end game ended 0-0 v Newcastle ironically, and the tighter slower game I won 4-1.
Now onto my main point -
I firmly believe that we are experiencing a change in which football is being played, generally. I think it may be indicative of the now generation we are in, the now now now, me me me generation, but never did a Serie A game between Inter v Juve play like that yesterday. And we had that 4-3 game in which Milan were three nil down, that again was open end to end.
Managers/teams of yesteryear used to have more defensive line ups, with 4-4-2 being seen as the norm and the game tight. Nowadays the players are fitter, faster, more creative etc as well as a raft of other things like ball technology, rule changes all giving that game more speed all the time. I also think players are buying into this mentality. Whereas years ago both teams would be happy to let the other team have endless possession, now it's closing down, pressure and a general attitude of let's play end to end. It's almost as if the players themselves love the nature of this fast paced game. Think Carlos Tevez when I make this point, or Rooney hounding down the opposition.
This is why managers (from everywhere) love the Premier League so much, but I feel it's imparting itself on all other leagues. The Bundesliga years ago used to be awful to watch, now that's end to end with all teams giving it a go.
A team like Barce I feel cannot be used in this argument, the reason they play so slow in build up is because 99% of the time teams park the bus against them, so we have to take them out of the equation. But certainly Man Utd, Real Madrid, Bayern, Milan, Arsenal and a whole host of other premier teams are now all playing fast stuff. Watch Madrid, they are lightening these days.
This argument can be related to PES too. The term 'arcade' is often bandied about to anyone who likes a faster pace game. I have experimented over the last two months with every combination I can think of to get the best out of the game. I have PS3 version of PES and PC version. I played the PS3 version on different screens, different speeds, different settings and the same with the PC. I messed about with stuff so much that (including the patches) that I was dizzy. And after all that, do you know what I prefer the most after a month of faffing about?!? PES out of the box pre-patch on gamespeed 0 lol! The way it came.
It's each to their own, I understand that, but this is what I ENJOY the most. So yes, I do get a little confused at people's definition (and I've been in this boat of labelling too) of what game styles and speeds are.
For me the game 'runs at its best' on gamespeed 0, pre patch. On Top Player too, on the PS3 on my 37" tele, on my 50" plasma the game seems to break a little.
So yeah, my opinion is credit to KONAMI, as I do believe that the game is evolving and that there are far more 'arcade' games in real life than 'sim' ones if you want to categorise. I'm currently watching Sporting v Bilbao, and that is like gamespeed 0! I just think that a human's natural instinct is to attack and to attack quite fast, there are slow games I'm not saying, but these days the games are generally fast, with less ball retention and more creative risk.
I'm sure that for every example I can dig out that games are increasing in pace and speed someone who likes to play on gamespeed -2 can give a counter argument. I'm just providing an angle from which to look at. In trying to replicate the perfect game from the myriad of settings I took my eye off the ball and forgot to ask myself the main question, am I enjoying this? And the answer was no. NOW I AM!
The ironic thing is (pre patch, gamespeed 0) is that you'd think because of the more frantic nature of the gameplay that games would end up 5-5 or something lol, but THAT IS NOT THE CASE!! I'm getting more 0-0, 1-0 games but really good ones with more variation than ever before. And as I've mentioned even at gamespeed 0 pre patch, I'm getting a variation of how the games play out, from end to end lightning counters to more mundane games (like my 4-1 win v West Brom). I honestly believe that clashes of tactics make the game play out differently and not necessarily the game speed. The nil nil end to ender against Newcastle I had just must have been setup perfectly from both camps for the frantic game, whereas my West Brom clash, somehow, was tailor made for a slower game.
So in a nutshell, even my definition of 'sim' and what is going on in real life is changing after seeing many games over the last year from different countries. Formations are evolving (4-3-3 a few years ago would have been crucified, and even now some teams play 3-4-3!) with wing backs being attacking players and player switching become more prevalent. And I also believe that managers will have to evolve into a more faster paced game, I think even Fergie is going to have to acknowledge that a tactics/players change is needed after the noisy neighbours win.
On a side point, and just to finish off, all the pundits of yesteryear harp on about defending etc with Neville and Hansen and Dixon and co shaking their heads. But I do often wonder how even the legendary Arsenal back four would deal with the likes of Tevez, Aguero, SIlva, Torres (when at his best), Persie, Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Messi, Silva, Suarez etc etc. The fact is, that the game was more physicality based in bygone years. It is silly to compare players from different eras and have match ups because it's like comparing apples to cars. But these modern players are just so good now, so tricky, so fit and so confident that it must be a nightmare for defenders and defences these days. Whilst it doesn't excuse yesterdays 5-3, the pressure on defences is now so huge that errors will become more prone.
Would Adams and Keown have fared so well these days, with everything from ref decisions, to rule changes going in the favour of attackers?
