Overrated players: Martins!!!
- Thread starter oziz14
- Start date
paul2478
Moderator
Reading through this thread & the comments shows why we will always get these threads every year. As no matter what Konami do with player stats someone will always think a particular player is over/under rated, as it is all personal opinion about a player.
What they do is they rate a player & those stats will remain the same as long as that player is in the game unless they have low stats & suddenly have a great or breakthrough season & then their stats get boosted & will stay that way even if it they were a one season wonder.
What they do is they rate a player & those stats will remain the same as long as that player is in the game unless they have low stats & suddenly have a great or breakthrough season & then their stats get boosted & will stay that way even if it they were a one season wonder.
Different opinions are normal. Doesn't mean there is no right or wrong in most cases. Unfortunately it appears that Konami have no idea about how to rate the players correctly. Not to mention the broken OVR system.
Which is the wrong way to do it to begin with. We have to deal with lots of overrated players as no players get downgraded regardless of their performances.
Also, a player like Gomez, who is underrated in many aspects, proves that they don't know what they're doing upgrading players (or refuse to do so in that case).
It wouldn't be that bad if we were able to play with the adjusted ratings online ( in unranked matches). Now we're stuck with Konami's incompetence.:no:
paul2478
Moderator
Individulal opinion does mean their is right or wrong, because it is personal opinion, thats my opinion
I completley agree that they need to look at stats each year, but it's never going to happen & doesn't happen in FIFA either.
The OVR rating was the worst thing they could show in the game IMO, it was always there, just hidden it's just a way for the AI to chose who should play. Now people just look at that but it easier for a full back to have a higher OVR than a CF for example.
What they really need to look at is the form stat. It affects stats alot so for example you get a player like Arshavin who on his day can be a world beater, but more often than not will be pants. He should have form of 4 with the stats he has so on the rare time he gets a red arrow he is unbeatable, but more often than not he has a blue or purple & is pants.
I don't think the stats are perfect or they ever will be, I just was trying to say that we will never get to stage where everyone is happy unless Konami employ regional scouts the same way SI Games dow ith Football Manger & even then we still wont be happy
Pato was definitely THE most over-rated player in PES12 & in PES11 it was Arshavin, who they made better than Messi according to me & my friend. I have yet to come accross some really over-rated players in this version so far but some of the best players like Ronaldo are just unplayable. Oh yeah, Eto'o seems to be way too good aswell.
What makes me laugh is how defenders like David Luiz have better "defence" stats than the likes of Sergio Ramos. I must agree with the fact that Konami have their favourite players. I think the maker is a Barcelona fan, that's pretty obvious.
I also laugh at how some players continue to have high ratings regardless of whether having poor seasons or not. Maxi Rodriguez for example has ridicolously good ratings every PES, no way as realistic as they should be. And this is coming from a Liverpool fan.
What makes me laugh is how defenders like David Luiz have better "defence" stats than the likes of Sergio Ramos. I must agree with the fact that Konami have their favourite players. I think the maker is a Barcelona fan, that's pretty obvious.
I also laugh at how some players continue to have high ratings regardless of whether having poor seasons or not. Maxi Rodriguez for example has ridicolously good ratings every PES, no way as realistic as they should be. And this is coming from a Liverpool fan.
Same with Mario Gomez, one of the best strikers in Europe for the last few seasons & he is only rated about 78/79 too.
I can name many players who fall into this category.
Ali
It is happening again
I've just been looking on the PES DB website. Assuming the ratings are correct as per the game, here's a list of overrated (IMO) players I found in the first 2 pages:
Fabregas
Xabi Alonso
Nani
Julio Cesar
Modric
Ronaldinho
Gerrard
Arteta
Krasic
Deco
Amero (though, I can't really say I know anything about him, but a rating of 93 seems a bit high from someone who isn't that well known)
Fabregas
Xabi Alonso
Nani
Julio Cesar
Modric
Ronaldinho
Gerrard
Arteta
Krasic
Deco
Amero (though, I can't really say I know anything about him, but a rating of 93 seems a bit high from someone who isn't that well known)
Sminky
Registered User
No, I wouldn't say so and certainly not how I envisage it. It would means players like Martins who are terribly overrated are reined in without hacking at their stats.
EDIT: Ali, you've had a complete Roger Lemerre with that list :facepalm:
Ali
It is happening again
How come?
Sminky
Registered User
Those players aren't overrated, perhaps their form might not be representative of their best but as the saying goes, "Form is temporary, class is permanent".
Julio Cesar has been superb at QPR, he's a top top goalkeeper, Xabi Alonso, Cesc Fabregas, Ronaldinho and Deco are superb players. The latter two have been outstanding in Serie A Campeonato Brasileiro.
Ali
It is happening again
God fucking damn it. I made a nice post explaining my reasoning and my pc froze as I tried to post it. 3rd time my PC has done that today. I'm so pissed off! :realmad:
To summarise - these players are good..... but they're not that good. You can't tell me that all these players are amongst the top 20 or so in the world! Nani @ 90??? No chance in hell. Ronaldinho at 89?? Nope maybe a few years ago. Krasic too..... Juve fans will probably tell you he's a bit crap.
Have you seen the ratings?
EDIT: For comparison, RVP is 86..... now he should be one of the top players! He deserves at least a 90.
Sminky
Registered User
I didn't mention either Krasic or Nani though, I would say on technical ability alone Nani is worth that but then as I've been peddling through the thread, there ought to be extenuating circumstances to temper these.
As for Ronaldinho, you've not watched him recently have you? :cringe:
The buck toothed wonder has been outstanding at Atletico Mineiro, no longer confined to a wide left position he has been dazzling. Deco has been imperious as well and in case you consider sniffing around the argument that the Serie A Campeonato Brasileiro isn't a strong competition, well just don't because that would be silly. Its a very competitive league with quality all throughout the league.
I agree Van Persie warrants higher than 86 by the way.
Sabatasso
Banned
I can't stop laughing... why do you fucking care about overall rating?
Defoe is rated 72, and he is underrated in this game in terms of Shot Accuracy and Top Speed and probably more but it's beside the point. He is AWESOME at 72 Overall rating, so the rating don't mean ANYTHING.
Why 72 rating?
Not a lot of jumping, not a lot of heading, not a lot of balance and decent in some other areas.
Falcao is rated in the high 70's, why is that? (maybe low 80's in 2013, can't remember just now)
He lacks strength, pace related stats and stuff like that.
So again, to get high striker ratings you need to be an allround beast, whereas as a r/l midfielder or r/l back you ONLY need Top Speed at 85+ and 60+ in everything else to get 85 overall rating or more.
Overall rating means NOTHING... I repeat NOTHING... NOTHING!
Did you get that?
Give back spidercharts, and for gods sake remove this "overall" gimmick.. at least as long as it's so unfuckingbelievably poorly implemented...
I think the ratings are pretty fair. If you haven't noticed, it is a video game, so the statistics involved are based on a combination of subjective and objective information. They also give you the edit function, so if you think some players are too good, tune them down, or if they're crap, turn them up.
They have historically (two seasons now I think) had Pato as the player that ended up being a 109 in Master League, however this year I doubt he would be able to get to 100 because of his change in injury stats and development speed. Hopefully it is actually a real life PES curse and he starts banging goals away and has an injury free season.
And most importantly, a lot of players have preferred positions in the game which are contrary to actually positions they perform well in - I recently found that Urby Emmanuelson remains above a 75 overall as either a LB, LMF, CMF, AMF, LWF or SS.
This brings me to my next point, overall ratings! They are just a bullshit positional calculation! I made a CF on BAL with the attributes of a defender for shits and giggles. Great defense stats, great header, response, shot power. He was a 49 overall, and a 58 CF to start with! And he's also a 61 CB! Overall means nothing half the time - Individual statistics really matter.
They have historically (two seasons now I think) had Pato as the player that ended up being a 109 in Master League, however this year I doubt he would be able to get to 100 because of his change in injury stats and development speed. Hopefully it is actually a real life PES curse and he starts banging goals away and has an injury free season.
And most importantly, a lot of players have preferred positions in the game which are contrary to actually positions they perform well in - I recently found that Urby Emmanuelson remains above a 75 overall as either a LB, LMF, CMF, AMF, LWF or SS.
This brings me to my next point, overall ratings! They are just a bullshit positional calculation! I made a CF on BAL with the attributes of a defender for shits and giggles. Great defense stats, great header, response, shot power. He was a 49 overall, and a 58 CF to start with! And he's also a 61 CB! Overall means nothing half the time - Individual statistics really matter.
Sabatasso
Banned
If that were true, most lower league players wouldn't be weaker, slower and have worse stamina than players in better leagues.
The difference between the general Tippeliga player and the Premier League stars are very much mental, some technical and very little physical.
The game uses lack of pace and stamina to a large effect in differentiating between good and poor teams, and you rarely see a player outside the top leagues with 80 or more response.
The scenario you explains would actually be a sensible approach, but then you would see some really weird AI generated results during competition modes, as the weaker teams would be too close to the good ones in terms of quality. It's hard to implement individual player smartness when the game in general have a really dumb AI.
Relax yourself. I don't "care" about it. I am just commenting it as it's there for everyone to see & people will obviously want to know how it's calculated, or worked out, as it is clearly not realistic. When I buy a player the last thing I look at is overall rating as I rather look at the individual stats of the player to see if it's someone I am interested in.
Your explanations are pretty bullshit if you want my honest opinion. I can name many players who will prove your theory wrong on how this particular system might work.
While we are discussing the subject of ratings, there was something else which I want to know. How come alot of players have better ratings in other positions than there actual registered position. It happens alot with CF's who get better overall ratings in LMF/RMF positions. Surely the best position should be the registered one?
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Sabatasso
Banned
Name any, and please disprove my "theory".
Dragonfly
Waiting....
I don't know what Martins is like nowadays, but in reality, there will be players faster than Messi and C. Ronaldo, and with harder shots, but they are still inferior. Why can't a shit player have faster speed stats and other superior physical attributes? It's the technique and mentality that makes the better player. I know it's only a game and pace and power counts for a lot - perhaps more than it would in reality - but that shouldn't be a reason to give them weaker stats than they should have.
I played Juventus yesterday for the first time in this version, found that all the players seemed to have really high overall ratings, Reto Ziegler is an 80 a left back and in centre mid, Krasic is an 88 despite rarely playing regular football(i know he;s gone now though) Lucio is a 90 for some bizarre reason, I mean hes better than any premiership defender in the game with a rating like that I think. Felipe Melo is an 87 too, a player once voted the worst player in Serie A, seems the Juventus players are generally over rated because they have won the league.