First of all, i will say i'm really enjoying the game. it plays generally very well but something seriously bugging me now, i have played almost two full seasons on ML and haven't had one single penalty yet! even the CPU has only had one and that was me diving in with a player certain to score! Plenty of things wrong with FIFA but this is one area i think they have bang on as when i played a season recently i probably got the usual share throughout the season as you would IRL. Is this a problem for anyone else or just me?
Penalties
- Thread starter Mozvaldo
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Kazuki_Ito
Registered User
Yea I've had the same thing. In 3 whole seasons I think I've had one pen and conceded 2 or 3 which were slide tackles by me which I didn't really mean to do - like I didn't think I had control of that player who committed the foul.
The computer team gets away with murder in the box. If my striker tries to burst past a CB into a one on one with the GK the CB can clobber my striker and totally deny him the goal scoring opportunity and nothing happens. I've barely seen CPU CB's slide in the box.
In fact I think I might have got my pen from closing down the opposition from a goal kick. The GK passed to the side to his CB and I was onto him quickly then he played a square pass across the box and my striker nipped in and got halved.
Depends what you class a 'problem' to be. In terms of realism then yea it's definitely a problem IMO but I can easily put up with it cos, like you said, I am enjoying the game so much.
The computer team gets away with murder in the box. If my striker tries to burst past a CB into a one on one with the GK the CB can clobber my striker and totally deny him the goal scoring opportunity and nothing happens. I've barely seen CPU CB's slide in the box.
In fact I think I might have got my pen from closing down the opposition from a goal kick. The GK passed to the side to his CB and I was onto him quickly then he played a square pass across the box and my striker nipped in and got halved.
Depends what you class a 'problem' to be. In terms of realism then yea it's definitely a problem IMO but I can easily put up with it cos, like you said, I am enjoying the game so much.
Agree with all of that.
Another thing i'm trying to work out is why the player ratings are generally so low in ML. I haven't played the game seriously since the mid 2000's on PS2 and can't recall the marks being so harsh back then. I had a striker who had a blinder, got an assist and a hat trick yet only got marked 8.0 and i am yet to see a defender get marked anything over 6.5 unless he gets an assist or a goal, even if he has had an absolute blinder doing his defensive work.
Again, not a big game breaker just puzzling :confsed:
valencia5
Registered User
It's actually crazy, remember our other thread the first season I started on pro, then after 5 games moved up, and then moved up again....
The fouls get progressively worse....when I was playing on pro and top player I'd say together about 10-12 games...I conceded 1, and was awarded 3 or 4 in that stretch....since then...the next 50 games or so, plus the new season I started from superstar....and just 1 game into season 2 in the EPL....I've had 0 penalties on either side...so give or take around 100 or so games, with no penalties...and maybe 2 straight red cards. Plenty of yellows though....and a few double yellows.
Absolutely dangerous plays...lol, I think Konami does not want you to dribble just, tiki taka, and one touch pass/shot/goals all day....to highlight their triumphs in that aspect of the game lol.
If you play on superstar not only do all the CB's, included the smallest ones, outrun even your fastest player, in a straight line towards their goal....but they can crush you with slide tackles from the back/side...spikes up...shoulder charges knocking your guy on his back or sending him tumbling out of control.....like Rugby Style or American Football Style...or even Muay Thai/Judo with the footsweeps, trips....so blatant, and nothing will ever get called....
Outside the box it's ok, but still so much worse the higher difficulty you play....it's really frustrating at times....especially a team with a high press, or gegenpress that's playing Rugby with you in your own half with multiple defenders acting like NFL Linebackers.
valencia5
Registered User
According to actual football rules.
There would likely be over 10 red cards per game for the fouls the CPU commits....slide tackles from behind or from the blind side, always....
Fouling someone to prevent a likely goal scoring opportunity, very frequently...
But it's a game...and not real...
There would likely be over 10 red cards per game for the fouls the CPU commits....slide tackles from behind or from the blind side, always....
Fouling someone to prevent a likely goal scoring opportunity, very frequently...
But it's a game...and not real...
It is a game yes and a wonderful game BUT the lack of penalties and the foul play that the AI get away with is a really, really shitty part of this wonderful game
I mean as much as we are in awe of how well this game plays and how it shines in a lot of areas, I am equally as BEWILDERED as how the fuck they can get it so wrong when it comes to AI tackling and aggression and how lenient the referees are when judging the AI
They are NOT as lenient when judging us players, you know when you slide in late and just barely catch an opposition player you will be penalised 95 times out of 100
where as the AI could make a RASH challenge inside the box and get away with it 99 times out of 100
Completed about 6 seasons of ML in total and still haven't got a single penalty
Please, for the love of God, sort it out Konami
I mean as much as we are in awe of how well this game plays and how it shines in a lot of areas, I am equally as BEWILDERED as how the fuck they can get it so wrong when it comes to AI tackling and aggression and how lenient the referees are when judging the AI
They are NOT as lenient when judging us players, you know when you slide in late and just barely catch an opposition player you will be penalised 95 times out of 100
where as the AI could make a RASH challenge inside the box and get away with it 99 times out of 100
Completed about 6 seasons of ML in total and still haven't got a single penalty
Please, for the love of God, sort it out Konami
I've had 1 penalty and given away 2 in three seasons and I had one for and one against when playing the demo. Yeah, it isn't enough. The problem I suppose is that they don't want to create an exploit where we learn how to manipulate a penalty when we need one. If that's their reasoning then it is a bit poor, since this never used to be a problem until the last couple of versions.
A bit of a shame really since they have improved penalty taking and saving. Well, from my limited experience, they felt better.
A bit of a shame really since they have improved penalty taking and saving. Well, from my limited experience, they felt better.
valencia5
Registered User
You hit the nail on the head. I've been posting for some time now, that it probably really is a difficult equation to manage the AI...
In real life a defenses shape, compactness, is the basis for rigid Defense, with well timed tackles, good marking, passing lanes covered in a way that maintains the defensive shape's integrity.
What Konami has done, which is what other companies have done. Is a bandaid, a cheap easy fix, which would affect the overall outcome/flow of the match.
Instead of making the defense better as a whole, they give the individual defenders. Superhuman skills, and lenient refereeing. Which in turn makes the defense better, but not the right way.
For example 5 yard radius to stick out their leg and make a perfect tackle, flush contact on the ball every time. Sometimes going through somebodies leg, with the reach of an arachnid/spider.
Defender has equal or greater speed than any player, running the direction of his goal, if defending on the ball.
Excessive dangerous slide tackling, with intentional hard contact. Bandaids, this helps the D be tougher to beat, but not in a realistic way....but the overall scoreline may be more realistic.
With the mechanics though, the AI can't really think like a human player. They get dragged out of position way more, where in real life, a defender might buckle down and maintain the defensive shape.
In my opinion Konami needs to limit these, which would in turn, help with the penalties. A better defensive shape, with more rigid clean defending.
I believe the defenders if they would mirror real life, would have their speed not needing any superhuman boosts. But their quickness in game should be increased....quickness to hold their ground, get back into position if they're misdirected, defend the lanes for dribbling and passing. Rather than chase someone, get beat, and then run after them as they approach the Box, with Usain Bolt speed suddenly, while they've had a 40 speed rating all game.
Again a very hard thing to probably program, but the problems will continue with the current AI...and as Dunk said, really exploitable in the penalty area....just get a fast dribbler and run him up and down the box til someone slide tackles you...for a free foul, penalty kick.
Kazuki_Ito
Registered User
There are definitely not enough penalties awarded in the game but at the same time I think my enjoyment of the game would be effected if CPU defenses were all very compact and it was hard to pull them out of shape. I find it hard enough to pull defenses apart in the game right now, and this is championship defenses I'm talking about, so if they made the CPU stronger in this area it's possible it would become tedious for the human player.
I know what you're talking about with the superhuman CPU defending. Especially if you crank up the difficulty and get to one of those 'matches that should not be won' it gets into control pad destroying territory when you can't get within 10 yards of the defense without having that shit happen where they sort of slide right up to you and knock the ball from you regardless of the player you're controlling.
I notice it too when passing out from the back. I'f I'm leading against a strong CPU team and want to run down the clock a bit I basically need to stay upwards of 20 yards from a CPU striker to be sure that they can't miraculously win the ball from my defense.
I know what you're talking about with the superhuman CPU defending. Especially if you crank up the difficulty and get to one of those 'matches that should not be won' it gets into control pad destroying territory when you can't get within 10 yards of the defense without having that shit happen where they sort of slide right up to you and knock the ball from you regardless of the player you're controlling.
I notice it too when passing out from the back. I'f I'm leading against a strong CPU team and want to run down the clock a bit I basically need to stay upwards of 20 yards from a CPU striker to be sure that they can't miraculously win the ball from my defense.
valencia5
Registered User
Agreed bro, but they need to find a balance. Those penalties in real life add such emotion, up and down, especially with misses and saves, or late penalties. It's a let down to not have them....
The defenses in real life, can be tedious, and not pulled out of shape too easily...which is why soccer scores in generally are low....
When you talk about the defensive issues your facing. Maybe if they did make the defense stronger as a whole, in terms of team defending, more like real life. But also, eased up on the individual(sometimes unrealistic) aspects of individual defending....like the pace out of nowhere, insane accuracy of knocking the ball(not just away from the attacker, but directly to a teammate lol), and the crazy blitzkrieg illegal slide tackles, and shoulder charges...
It may just balance itself out in a good away, it's wishful thinking, but they've made some good changes...so it's not too far fetched....
Again, big problem is the AI programming and logic...super tough task I'm sure to achieve, I'm sure even to tweak creates big ripples...that take a lot of balancing/testing.
valencia5
Registered User
Just thought I might mention this, but...after no penalties for almost 120 matches now...
First game I played this morning, was against Southampton.....I scored an early goal in the first 3 minutes for 1-0, at the 10 minute mark I conceded a penalty....which was kinda cool for 1-1, then at the 13:55 mark, I was awarded a penalty and converted for 2-1.
2 Penalties in 13 minutes!! Both ways..
I started a new topic here for another thing about refereeing I'd like your input on when you have time of course....
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?p=2187665#post2187665
Thanks guys.
First game I played this morning, was against Southampton.....I scored an early goal in the first 3 minutes for 1-0, at the 10 minute mark I conceded a penalty....which was kinda cool for 1-1, then at the 13:55 mark, I was awarded a penalty and converted for 2-1.
2 Penalties in 13 minutes!! Both ways..
I started a new topic here for another thing about refereeing I'd like your input on when you have time of course....
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?p=2187665#post2187665
Thanks guys.
My midfielders and attacking players now average a rating of about 81, I have a few that can actually dribble and retain the ball around the edge of the box. This is especially true of Raheem Sterling and "mini me", so yesterday I thought I'd try seeing how I got on attempting to dribble even further into the box.
I played 7 matches and could successfully dribble to within 15 yards of the goal. The moment I was anywhere near the penalty spot though, I was always tackled and every shot from that location never happened for the same reason - tackled while swinging my leg back.
I could get around the opposing FBs from a wide position and dribble in to within 6 yards of goal from the side, but shooting from that tight angle resulted in a save every time from the keeper. If I then tried to short pass it to anyone, it was always intercepted, except once as England, but that was actually a break away where a fresh legged sub squared the ball to another fresh legged sub. Yes, I ditched the talented Spain for England - Duty called!
All that said, my players are getting closer than before, so I am expecting to be able to have some success this way once I have Sterling's stats right up on dribbling.
BTW, I party tried this to see if I would pick up any penalties with Sterling.
I played 7 matches and could successfully dribble to within 15 yards of the goal. The moment I was anywhere near the penalty spot though, I was always tackled and every shot from that location never happened for the same reason - tackled while swinging my leg back.
I could get around the opposing FBs from a wide position and dribble in to within 6 yards of goal from the side, but shooting from that tight angle resulted in a save every time from the keeper. If I then tried to short pass it to anyone, it was always intercepted, except once as England, but that was actually a break away where a fresh legged sub squared the ball to another fresh legged sub. Yes, I ditched the talented Spain for England - Duty called!
All that said, my players are getting closer than before, so I am expecting to be able to have some success this way once I have Sterling's stats right up on dribbling.
BTW, I party tried this to see if I would pick up any penalties with Sterling.
Kazuki_Ito
Registered User
It is pretty ridiculous to be honest. It's happened to me more times than I can remember now where my striker gets tag teamed and ends up doing a flip basically because of the challenge on him and the ref does nothing.
My natural reaction is to sort of stop playing for a second and I'm just thinking... yea that's a pen... and then a second passes... and another... and I'm just like WTF?? They could not actually make a worse challenge on my striker and the ref has done nothing. I'm yet to see them slide in the box either - I think this must be just about the only way they can give away a pen - but they never do it
.
My natural reaction is to sort of stop playing for a second and I'm just thinking... yea that's a pen... and then a second passes... and another... and I'm just like WTF?? They could not actually make a worse challenge on my striker and the ref has done nothing. I'm yet to see them slide in the box either - I think this must be just about the only way they can give away a pen - but they never do it
.
valencia5
Registered User
Lol duty calls, awesome.
When something really irks me, I made a player with 99 rated everything, just to test stuff....you could try it to answer some questions instead of waiting for Sterling to gain experience hehe....
valencia5
Registered User
It is pretty ridiculous to be honest. It's happened to me more times than I can remember now where my striker gets tag teamed and ends up doing a flip basically because of the challenge on him and the ref does nothing.
My natural reaction is to sort of stop playing for a second and I'm just thinking... yea that's a pen... and then a second passes... and another... and I'm just like WTF?? They could not actually make a worse challenge on my striker and the ref has done nothing. I'm yet to see them slide in the box either - I think this must be just about the only way they can give away a pen - but they never do it
Right lol?
Nice observation though on the slide tackles thing, I've only seen slide tackles coming from the corner, from outside to inside the box.
Speaking of which, the penalty I was awarded in two posts above, that's exactly what happened.
In the game the overall tackling thing is better than last year. But I don't like the range of it at all, there's like literally a 5 yard radius in which they can stick their leg out and accurately tackle. I also really hate how there is such a tiny percentage for a chance of dealing with consequences...
Not just fouls either, but I'm talking about if someone were tackling like that, you're bound to kick someone, trip someone, hit the ball the wrong way at a far larger percentage than you would a clean tackle. But as good as the physics are, many players have noticed a lack of collision, with CPU legs going through thighs...to perfectly stab a a ball with the foot....
Halfrax2
Registered User
Thing is, I've won a few free kicks right on the edge of the box (like, right on the edge, too close to get the ball over the wall and down again), whereas those exact same tackles one inch into the box are never, ever called. It's lunacy. I've had no penalties - none at all - in almost three seasons of Master League.
This must be deliberate to some extent - it's not the collision detection failing, because although there aren't enough free kicks in the game full stop, you do sometimes get them given outside the area for exactly the same vicious challenges which will always, always go unpunished in the area. Maybe Konami thought "refs are less likely to blow for a foul in the box, because it's a bigger decision"... but the fact that refs are so lenient towards the CPU means that when you add in the "ooh it's in the box... I don't have the guts to give a pen" factor on top of that, you end up with no penalties at all. Even when you get kicked at knee height, with the ball a yard away, and fly up in the air.
Now, I'd say the computer clearly fouls me in the box about once every three or four games. If I got a penalty every time, that'd be too much. So maybe what Konami should do is fix it so the refs call a pen roughly 50% of the time, instead of 0.1% as it is now. That way you'd get a penalty once every seven or eight games or so, which would be fine, and you'd also have enough non-calls to add some spice and drama. It also means they wouldn't have to tweak the defensive AI, just the refereeing, which is infinitely easier from a programming point of view.
This must be deliberate to some extent - it's not the collision detection failing, because although there aren't enough free kicks in the game full stop, you do sometimes get them given outside the area for exactly the same vicious challenges which will always, always go unpunished in the area. Maybe Konami thought "refs are less likely to blow for a foul in the box, because it's a bigger decision"... but the fact that refs are so lenient towards the CPU means that when you add in the "ooh it's in the box... I don't have the guts to give a pen" factor on top of that, you end up with no penalties at all. Even when you get kicked at knee height, with the ball a yard away, and fly up in the air.
Now, I'd say the computer clearly fouls me in the box about once every three or four games. If I got a penalty every time, that'd be too much. So maybe what Konami should do is fix it so the refs call a pen roughly 50% of the time, instead of 0.1% as it is now. That way you'd get a penalty once every seven or eight games or so, which would be fine, and you'd also have enough non-calls to add some spice and drama. It also means they wouldn't have to tweak the defensive AI, just the refereeing, which is infinitely easier from a programming point of view.
valencia5
Registered User
Like someone said, it's likely due to them being unable to program the AI efficiently, like make the D more rigid in a legit way, so much of the difficulty in the defense is those non called fouls...
Due to this, it might be easily exploitable, get a good/fast dribbler like neymar or messi and just run around on the inside edge of the box, and the defense is going to foul you....they do right now always...
valencia5
Registered User
Well the USMNT should of had a few they were robbed....