PES 2012 Negativity thread

[shaun7]

Ok since you've clearly done you're "research", perhaps you can enlighten me....

1) Exactly where has been known that Explosive Power is Agility/Acceleration merged into one? From what I can tell it's down to pure guess-work from a few of us trying to decipher these missing attributes so it's clearly nothing definitive or official. Whats more, if it is the case than it's still an illogical decision. What sense is there merging two very distinctive attributes into one? And why does it have such a less pronounced effect on dribbling than previous years?

Clearly, you have never heard of a mode called EDIT MODE Seriously, it explains every ability there.

As for pes 12. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS ME, YOU CANNOT DEFEND WELL AGAINST THE CPU. It's frustrating, annoying and makes me sick to death. Every AI player goes past you with ease, and believe me, I know how to hold up play and tackle at the right time. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS when I do this?
The AI still goes past or they'll take a FK.

You cannot make pressure like the AI does on you. SERIOUSLY, I NEVER DEMANDED ANYTHING FROM KONAMI, BUT THIS BULLS*IT NEEDS TO GO AWAY FOR GOOD.

But apart from the obvious AI cheats and defending issues, this game can really be enjoyable. Still, the dribbling a a bit too easy mostly because the defending is not on par and FOR THE LAST TIME, WHEN ARE YOU GONNA MAKE A POWER BAR LIKE PES 5? WHERE IT RISES SLOWER and gives you more precision? I'd like a return to it.

I still need more time into pes 12, but these issues are ANNOYING.

 

[Sabatasso]

Ok since you've clearly done you're "research", perhaps you can enlighten me....

1) Exactly where has been known that Explosive Power is Agility/Acceleration merged into one? From what I can tell it's down to pure guess-work from a few of us trying to decipher these missing attributes so it's clearly nothing definitive or official. Whats more, if it is the case than it's still an illogical decision. What sense is there merging two very distinctive attributes into one? And why does it have such a less pronounced effect on dribbling than previous years?

From in-game tooltips;
Explosive Power: Indicates players agility and mobility.

It has a huge effect on dribbling, the only difference is that it's not an absolute requirement to do a dribble anymore.

2) How exactly do you come to the conclusion that zero passing assistance does not taking stats into account? Give me a link to where exactly this has been 'explained', as you've clearly done your research, obviously. Why have some many other people on PES Forums argued the exact opposite, citing zero passing assistance offers the most individualistic experience as poor passers become more error prone?

Don't try and mug me off with condescending language when you don't have a clue yourself....

Since you're so obviously hurt by being proven wrong, I'll let you figure out this one by yourself. You know how to use google?

As for pes 12. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS ME, YOU CANNOT DEFEND WELL AGAINST THE CPU. It's frustrating, annoying and makes me sick to death. Every AI player goes past you with ease, and believe me, I know how to hold up play and tackle at the right time. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS when I do this?
The AI still goes past or they'll take a FK.

You can, but it's quite hard and it has tendencies towards free kick against way too often. But using midfielders and/or side backs to pressure and hold up play is important. Once you use your central defenders, you create massive holes for the AI to exploit. That is why you should swap player with the right stick rather than the Swap player button.

If I am concentrated, and use a decent team I can nullify the AI threat on Top Player for a whole 15 minute game. I've not yet kept a clean sheet on Superstar, but I've escaped with only one in the bag a couple of times.

Once my concentration slips, though, I concede many goals. So for me, the difference between success and failure on the harder difficulty levels is focus. Which is a good thing in my opinion. But I also agree with you that the AI cheats too much, and I don't see why KONAMI favors that over a well written AI. Jenkey1002 has proved that KONAMI is lazy in that department, the way he modded PES2011 into a quite decent footy game.

 

[Danny1234567]

From in-game tooltips;
Explosive Power: Indicates players agility and mobility.

It has a huge effect on dribbling, the only difference is that it's not an absolute requirement to do a dribble anymore.




Since you're so obviously hurt by being proven wrong, I'll let you figure out this one by yourself. You know how to use google?

So nothing about Acceleration than no?

I'm guessing your second reply indicates you haven't a fucking clue so resorted to a smart arsed response instead.

No, I don't know how to use google. Enlighten me with your invaluable source of absolute knowledge. I know plenty who'll be intrigued to find out how with this inclusion Konami ignores the individuality aspect the series is huge on, cause I know many who are finding the complete opposite.

 

[Sabatasso]

So nothing about Acceleration than no?

I'm guessing your second reply indicates you haven't a fucking clue so resorted to a smart arsed response instead.

No, I don't know how to use google. Enlighten me with your invaluable source of absolute knowledge. I know plenty who'll be intrigued to find out how with this inclusion Konami ignores the individuality aspect the series is huge on, cause I know many who are finding the complete opposite.

What do you think mobility is supposed to mean, when there already is a stat that determines speed.

Besides, individuality of footy players are mostly mental. Hard to reflect that in a game, other than typical preferred moves. I never even claimed that PES had a genuine way of showing player individuality. I look at the game as a whole, and it's a big step in the right direction. But there are quirks and annoyances still.

And I won't teach you how to use google, my godlike experience in the subject tells me that anyone named Danny is naturally inept at performing such a task...

 

[Danny1234567]

I'm not asking you to. I just want to see this unquestionable proof that zero passing assistance has no relation to a player's stats. I ain't done my research mate so I'm surprised it's been confirmed by Konami. A link or a quote will do.

 

[lyc10]

so it all goes down to agility or personality (individuality) if they should be a speed merchant

yeah, thats exactly my point, there should not be a card which gives the players superhuman dribbling abilities if their stats are average, baffles me why they decided to merge agility and acceleration,these should be the stat that determines how fast players turn

 

[bullybull]

As for pes 12. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS ME, YOU CANNOT DEFEND WELL AGAINST THE CPU. It's frustrating, annoying and makes me sick to death. Every AI player goes past you with ease, and believe me, I know how to hold up play and tackle at the right time. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS when I do this?
The AI still goes past or they'll take a FK.

This is exactly what I feel. With R2 +X the def will back off while we patiently wait for the right timing right? most often than not, before we get the right timing, the attacker is in front of my penalty box and with a pass to his teammate (which of course my defenders will just watch without reaction) and goal. When I ask my teammate to pressure and if he touched the dribbler... foul of course. Freekick in front of the penalty box? 95% goal.

I know for years the CPU always have advantage, but this year Konami has brought the advantage to another level. Like during freekick even if I put tallest defender at the far corner, my def will jump slightly and the ball will just go over his head. In previous PES the def will usually block the FK.

This year the defending is definitely in disadvantage. When defending through pass defenders often make a slight stopping for a split movement letting the receiving player free. Crossing too the defenders like to just watch the ball fly past them, UNLESS we managed to switch to the defender and press clear button.

I have read a lot of advice to use R2+x and wait for timing to defend successfully. I notice I can do it against online players, but against cpu it's really all about luck.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

Clearly, you have never heard of a mode called EDIT MODE Seriously, it explains every ability there.

As for pes 12. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS ME, YOU CANNOT DEFEND WELL AGAINST THE CPU. It's frustrating, annoying and makes me sick to death. Every AI player goes past you with ease, and believe me, I know how to hold up play and tackle at the right time. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS when I do this?
The AI still goes past or they'll take a FK.

You cannot make pressure like the AI does on you. SERIOUSLY, I NEVER DEMANDED ANYTHING FROM KONAMI, BUT THIS BULLS*IT NEEDS TO GO AWAY FOR GOOD.

But apart from the obvious AI cheats and defending issues, this game can really be enjoyable. Still, the dribbling a a bit too easy mostly because the defending is not on par and FOR THE LAST TIME, WHEN ARE YOU GONNA MAKE A POWER BAR LIKE PES 5? WHERE IT RISES SLOWER and gives you more precision? I'd like a return to it.

I still need more time into pes 12, but these issues are ANNOYING.

Shaun, what difficulty level are you playing on, and what side do you use? Just curious. Haven't played against the AI much yet myself.

As for the agility debate, when I played in real life I was very agile. They used to call me crazy legs because I could fling a leg out and pull off a shot or pass when it seemed impossible. I was also good at things like bicycle kicks, scissor kicks, etc as well as turning when on the ball (quick cuts and changing direction). Anyway, the point is that all of that is what I understood agility to be in PES, and now I'm not sure anymore...

For starters, in my version of the game (north america) in edit mode it actually doesn't say anything about "movement" under the description for explosive power, it just says that the higher the explosive power the more agile the player will be. It seems likely (but not 100% certain IMO) that they have combined agility and acceleration based on the new name and the fact that accel no longer exists.

The question though is whether this is a good thing or not. Personally I think it's not totally right to say that all players with good running acceleration are equally agile as well. For example, imagine Usain Bolt playing (which he does). He would have an amazing ability to accelerate with pace, but does that mean he is a good dribbler and also good at scissor kicks?

I think it's a valid question, and although I suspect there is an answer I'm not seeing it here in this thread and it's also not obvious to me when looking at the edit mode list of abilities. Maybe someone can explain it, but one guess I have is that maybe this is yet another case of bad translation from Japanese to english. It wouldn't be the first time. In other words, yes, acceleration is gone, but maybe they just combined it with speed instead of agility? If you just read the descriptions and think about what you would actually combine acceleration with then it makes sense. But why they would change the name of agility of course doesn't make sense, so it's just a thought and unlikely to be the case. Still, to me it doesn't quite add up and understanding it better might help when it comes to making player purchases.

One other thing to add to this is that they removed shot technique, so maybe what is really gong on here is that they moved several abilities around, and now things like how good a player is a scissor kicks and volleys has more to do with shot accuracy? Again, it's really not clear in my opinion. Did they merge shot technique (ability to pull off a shot under pressure) with ball control?

Maybe some play testing is in order. Also, comparing PES 2012 to PES 2011 stats for specific players might reveal what's really going on.


PEACE

 

[brunosebalo]

This is exactly what I feel. With R2 +X the def will back off while we patiently wait for the right timing right? most often than not, before we get the right timing, the attacker is in front of my penalty box and with a pass to his teammate (which of course my defenders will just watch without reaction) and goal. When I ask my teammate to pressure and if he touched the dribbler... foul of course. Freekick in front of the penalty box? 95% goal.

I have read a lot of advice to use R2+x and wait for timing to defend successfully. I notice I can do it against online players, but against cpu it's really all about luck.

Forget about the R2+x defense, most of the time I hold up play without using R2+x combination, dont forget that you can still hold up play only using the left stick, I played five games(Rangers x Manchester city) against the CPU on superstar level today and managed to keep a clean sheet on three of those,my rangers defense was something to remember, Silva and Tevez were non factors on those matches.


I have been loving to defend this year !!!!!!!!!

My only gripe is with the way crosses are over powered, is too easy to put the ball on the strikers head, konami should change that and make every cross manual, that would be awesome.

 

[2GunsUp]

just played the demo....i have a question for folk who have the game, how is the dribbling with Speed demons like Robben and Ribery in the game ?? have they reduced it or are they still able to just walk in to your defense ??

 

[Ravex]

The shooting seems off.

Playing BAL and my player (who has really good shooting stats) just shoots 70% of all balls high as hell, with and without much pressure.

Even if I tap it just so slightly, he rifles it off high into the sky (well, not exactly, but often just above the crossbar).

The accuracy is a bit weird too. It seems oversensitive and the point between deadzone and too-much is far too narrow.

 

[King of Lyon]

From playing the demo.

The defense area seems to be crowded at all times during the game. Never a feeling of catching the opposing team disorganized.

 

[shaun7]

Shaun, what difficulty level are you playing on, and what side do you use? Just curious. Haven't played against the AI much yet myself.

I play on Top Player and usually pick Juventus But I play with many different teams.

BTW, I have found something useful for the defence in pes 12.
When you are holding up play with R2 + X and you see that the AI will beat you, press L1 quickly to change the player and the game will switch to a player behind him, as soon as this happens, press square so that your previous player makes pressure and with you new player close the space. This is what I have done and so far I have won in Top Player without conceding a goal.

THIS, still does not mean that the defending is fair in Pes 12 because the attack is still a stronger side.

 

[lyc10]

just played the demo....i have a question for folk who have the game, how is the dribbling with Speed demons like Robben and Ribery in the game ?? have they reduced it or are they still able to just walk in to your defense ??

they will blow pass you if you just press R1+X, defending is a bit different from before, with good defenders you might be able to muscle them off the ball once you get into a good position for the tackle

 

[brunosebalo]

That is why you should swap player with the right stick rather than the Swap player button.

Does anyone have a problem using the right stick to switch to players on defense??? it seems a bit random for me, sometimes works fine but sometimes dont, especially when the CPU has a winger and he is about to cross, I try to switch to my CB in the box to position him in front of the striker or in a place to make it dificult to the striker to have a header but often the game wont switch at all, I will still controling the SB that was left behind by the CPU winger, then after the super accurate cross the CPU will automatically switch to my CB that is behind the striker arrghhhhhhh !!!!!!
Once I cant get it to switch and the striker is alone in the box I try to bring the keeper out by pressing R1+R3 however, if I miss the ball the CPU end up scoring lol.

 

[Sabatasso]

I have stopped using double pressure for the most part. Usually one player is enough, and it seems that the closer you are to the striker when you press "hold up play" the better.

 

[arda54]

the com-player is always faster than mine.
puyol cant reach any striker, but messi can be reached by any defender if i play with barca...

is there a fix planned?

 

[CheatersSuck]

no wingbacks

 

[ThePesTuts]

PES 12 Retail GAme Review , Full version + Gameplay differences , THere are major differences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_fZZnfCi10

 

[Kefir]

This was one of Hatoshis wonderful ideas. He saved his job by doing this and some other services to SeabASS that i wont mention here.

Hatoshi has just kissed his wife and is going to bed now. He is saying good night.

MAke sure to follow me on twitter the next time when he will cut his toenails.