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Ronaldo Luis Nazário de Lima, was he that good?

Jonny2J

Registered User
I am not doubting the fact he is most certainly a Chelsea legend.

He's definitely not an England legend though.
 

Bammers05

Registered User
Who even is an England legend? The '66 team and that's probably it.

Obviously, I haven't been around to see too many of these guys play, so I could very easily be wrong, but I'd say these guys could probably be described in those terms: Paul Gascoigne, Stuart Pearce, Gary Lineker, Peter Shilton, Terry Butcher, John Barnes, Alan Shearer, David Seaman, Stanley Matthews, Nat Lofthouse, Tom Finney.

And maybe David Beckham :serial:
 

muscularmatt

Registered User
You can't really technically define someone as being a 'legend', it's just how you individually feel about them. You could go one way and call anyone who's ever worn an England shirt and given it their all for one game is a legend.

You could go the other way and say that none of them are, afterall the '66 did win the World Cup on home turf, back when international football was nowhere near as competitive as it is now.
 

Jonny2J

Registered User
Obviously, I haven't been around to see too many of these guys play, so I could very easily be wrong, but I'd say these guys could probably be described in those terms: Paul Gascoigne, Stuart Pearce, Gary Lineker, Peter Shilton, Terry Butcher, John Barnes, Alan Shearer, David Seaman, Stanley Matthews, Nat Lofthouse, Tom Finney.

And maybe David Beckham :serial:

Out of that list you need to remove John Barnes. He was dreadful for En-ger-land.
 

Dagoods

Registered User
Anyone with half a brain and a penis longer than 3 inches knows for a damn fact that IL FENOMENO/O FENOMENO was without a shadow of a doubt the best player of his generation!

Prime R9 > Messi, Zidane, Ronaldinho, CR7, [insert name here]

Only Pele and Maradona were slightly better...
 

Joel

Administrator
Staff member
Messi is better than Ronaldo (R9). Please do not let nostalgia for the era Ronaldo played in get in the way.
 

Dagoods

Registered User
Messi is better than Ronaldo (R9). Please do not let nostalgia for the era Ronaldo played in get in the way.

Messi is better than R9?
Not in this cosmos!

2010 WC - 0 goals
Copa America t home - 0 goals
Against a 35-year old Nesta (he got owned)

He's fortunate to play for Barca (Golden Era) and in a very weak era (pathetic league/no competition).

R9 played in a tougher era and had way more competition and he still managed to deliver for both club and country.
 

Joel

Administrator
Staff member
Messi is better than R9?
Not in this cosmos!

2010 WC - 0 goals
Copa America t home - 0 goals
Against a 35-year old Nesta (he got owned)

He's fortunate to play for Barca (Golden Era) and in a very weak era (pathetic league/no competition).

R9 played in a tougher era and had way more competition and he still managed to deliver for both club and country.

Dude will only be 27 at the next World Cup. So he has around two World Cups potentially at his peak. What will you say if he top scores and wins one of them?

As amazing as Xavi and Iniesta are, Messi is the biggest reason why this golden period at Barca exists. I'm not a bi fan of La Liga's strength in depth, but Messi does the business in Europe too, so you can't throw that at him.

R9 was fantastic. My favourite player when I first started to take notice of other leagues (outside of England). But Messi is on a level. He is a genius. The ball sticks to his foot like glue. If he gets hit, he still stays on his feet with the ball. He is rapid with and without the ball. He can see a pass running at the maximum. He can finish in anyway possible. Sometimes even the impossible.

Messi is a once in a lifetime type of player. People need to realise this and appreciate that we get to watch him.
 

Dagoods

Registered User
Dude will only be 27 at the next World Cup. So he has around two World Cups potentially at his peak. What will you say if he top scores and wins one of them?

As amazing as Xavi and Iniesta are, Messi is the biggest reason why this golden period at Barca exists. I'm not a bi fan of La Liga's strength in depth, but Messi does the business in Europe too, so you can't throw that at him.

R9 was fantastic. My favourite player when I first started to take notice of other leagues (outside of England). But Messi is on a level. He is a genius. The ball sticks to his foot like glue. If he gets hit, he still stays on his feet with the ball. He is rapid with and without the ball. He can see a pass running at the maximum. He can finish in anyway possible. Sometimes even the impossible.

Messi is a once in a lifetime type of player. People need to realise this and appreciate that we get to watch him.

First and foremost, Xavi and Iniesta have proven they can win without Messi.
La Pulga plays along with 10-11 WC winning players. As I mentioned before, he plays in a piss-poor league. Both CR7 & Messi broke Hugo's scoring record back to back years and will do so again this year. Ronaldo at age 20 was a two-time FIFA Player of the Year winner and nobody came CLOSE...there were no doubts/no controversy involved. He was the undisputed best footballer on earth. Messi didn't deserver the 2010 Award, and many feel he did not deserve last year's award. O Fenomeno took a so-so Barca and won 3 titles and established a new club record in his first season!

Ronaldo was as good if not better at dribbling. R9 had good vision/passing skills (but of course Messi is better at this). Ronaldo was clearly a better finisher. It is easier to SHUT DOWN Messi than shutting down prime RONALDO. Why? Ronaldo could dribble like a winger and he was EXPLOSIVE, FAST, and STRONG - the man was unstoppable! A 35 year-old Nesta was able to keep Messi under control. IL FENOMENO dominated Serie A (R9 faced Cannavaro, Thuram, Maldini, Costacurta, Nesta, Sensini, Ferrara, Desailly, among other legends). Messi got owned by Nesta and has problems with "Pepe" for crying out loud!

There's only one IL FENOMENO!
 

JohnSound

Registered User
Messi is a once in a lifetime type of player. People need to realise this and appreciate that we get to watch him.

Well said! This could be the bottom line to any discussion.

I doubt there's anyone on this forum who was lucky enough to watch Pele and very unlikely there's anyone who saw Maradona at his peak. Even if there is anyone old enough, there wasn't the TV coverage there is now. We don't realise how lucky we are.

In my lifetime it's been great to watch both Ronaldos & Zidane at their best on a regular basis. Whatever you think of whoever, enjoy what you can and count yerselves lucky!
 

Usul

Registered User
Messi is not my favorite all-time player, but what Joel says is so true. People should just stop talking shit about Lionel. I've never seen anyone run at defenders like that and dribble at that speed with such close control.

What's this nonsense about La Liga being a poor league anyway?

Please check the stats before making such statements.

Barcelona are far superior, and Madrid had to use a 400m loan just to keep up. That doesn't mean that the rest of the teams are shite.
 

Amateur

Registered User
Anyone with half a brain and a penis longer than 3 inches knows for a damn fact that IL FENOMENO/O FENOMENO was without a shadow of a doubt the best player of his generation!

Prime R9 > Messi, Zidane, Ronaldinho, CR7, [insert name here]

Only Pele and Maradona were slightly better...

You see.... This is exactly the type of delusional fan, that inspired this here thread. How the hell is Ronaldo better than Messi? Just because he had two extraordinary seasons, one with Barca, and one with Inter?

Messi has scored better goals than any Ronaldo goal. The best goal that Ronaldo ever scored (I think), was in Barca, and his physique and strength were essential factors to that goal. Messi scored a Maradona-like goal, at a time when he was incredibly injury prone, evidently weak, and even smaller than he currently is, meaning that the goal was mostly determined by both his left foot and his unusual acceleration, and not by physical factors such as size and strength.

Not only has Messi scored better goals than Ronaldo, he also scores a wider variety of goals: chipped goals, Maradona-like goals, Messi-like goals, headers, long range, etc, etc, the only thing missing is a bicycle kick goal.

Having mentioned that, if you asked me how much better do I think Ronaldo would've been had he been surrounded by Xavi-Iniesta, that's a good argument.... but still is mere speculation at the end of the day; I prefer to base my opinions (and arguments) on more concrete factors.

Comparing Zidane with Messi is not only unfair (to Zidane) but also not the best comparison, due to obvious reasons. Zidane must be one of the most overrated players ever... Robert Pires probably was as good or perhaps the better player when France won the EURO 2000. People talk about how France flopped at the 2002 World Cup "because Zidane did not play due to injury", yet completely overlook the fact that Robert Pires was also out of the World Cup due to a severe knee injury. I think France would've had a great 2002 WC had Pires been available to play Zidane's role.

Zidane was a great player, but far too many people think of him as an equal to Maradona, or Messi, or other players who were clearly better than him in almost every conceivable department.

Comparing Ronaldinho with CR7 is just wrong, they shouldn't be on the same list. In fact, I think Ronaldinho in his prime was a better player than Ronaldo ever was. I think that Ronaldo was more of a natural talent and I would probably pick Ronaldo over Ronaldinho any day of the week, but the arsenal of dribbling skills and passing skills that Ronaldinho possessed, in my opinion made him a better and more complete player.

Oh, and Pele was "slightly better" than Ronaldo.... So I'm guessing you're like 70 years old? Or was the incredibly small number of video recordings of Pele, enough for you to notice the fact that Pele was "slightly" better than Ronaldo?

At the end of the day, this is entirely subjective, and I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on the subject.... but I do have to say that I find it funny that you -or anyone below 70 years of age- would think that Pele was slightly better than Ronaldo. In my opinion, you put far too much importance on LEGENDS, rather than more factually viable factors.
 

Dagoods

Registered User
Messi is not my favorite all-time player, but what Joel says is so true. People should just stop talking shit about Lionel. I've never seen anyone run at defenders like that and dribble at that speed with such close control.

What's this nonsense about La Liga being a poor league anyway?

Please check the stats before making such statements.

Barcelona are far superior, and Madrid had to use a 400m loan just to keep up. That doesn't mean that the rest of the teams are shite.

Valencia came in 3rd place last season, they finished only 39pts behind RM and 30pts behind Barca...

Scoring records are being shattered season after season by the usual suspects...
coincidence? I highly doubt it!
 

Dagoods

Registered User
You see.... This is exactly the type of delusional fan, that inspired this here thread. How the hell is Ronaldo better than Messi? Just because he had two extraordinary seasons, one with Barca, and one with Inter?

Messi has scored better goals than any Ronaldo goal. The best goal that Ronaldo ever scored (I think), was in Barca, and his physique and strength were essential factors to that goal. Messi scored a Maradona-like goal, at a time when he was incredibly injury prone, evidently weak, and even smaller than he currently is, meaning that the goal was mostly determined by both his left foot and his unusual acceleration, and not by physical factors such as size and strength.

Not only has Messi scored better goals than Ronaldo, he also scores a wider variety of goals: chipped goals, Maradona-like goals, Messi-like goals, headers, long range, etc, etc, the only thing missing is a bicycle kick goal.

Having mentioned that, if you asked me how much better do I think Ronaldo would've been had he been surrounded by Xavi-Iniesta, that's a good argument.... but still is mere speculation at the end of the day; I prefer to base my opinions (and arguments) on more concrete factors.

Comparing Zidane with Messi is not only unfair (to Zidane) but also not the best comparison, due to obvious reasons. Zidane must be one of the most overrated players ever... Robert Pires probably was as good or perhaps the better player when France won the EURO 2000. People talk about how France flopped at the 2002 World Cup "because Zidane did not play due to injury", yet completely overlook the fact that Robert Pires was also out of the World Cup due to a severe knee injury. I think France would've had a great 2002 WC had Pires been available to play Zidane's role.

Zidane was a great player, but far too many people think of him as an equal to Maradona, or Messi, or other players who were clearly better than him in almost every conceivable department.

Comparing Ronaldinho with CR7 is just wrong, they shouldn't be on the same list. In fact, I think Ronaldinho in his prime was a better player than Ronaldo ever was. I think that Ronaldo was more of a natural talent and I would probably pick Ronaldo over Ronaldinho any day of the week, but the arsenal of dribbling skills and passing skills that Ronaldinho possessed, in my opinion made him a better and more complete player.

Oh, and Pele was "slightly better" than Ronaldo.... So I'm guessing you're like 70 years old? Or was the incredibly small number of video recordings of Pele, enough for you to notice the fact that Pele was "slightly" better than Ronaldo?

At the end of the day, this is entirely subjective, and I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on the subject.... but I do have to say that I find it funny that you -or anyone below 70 years of age- would think that Pele was slightly better than Ronaldo. In my opinion, you put far too much importance on LEGENDS, rather than more factually viable factors.

I rank Messi very highly!
He is without a doubt the best in the business today and ranks 4th in my all-time list.

R9 was more than just a two-season wonder, this is not Owen we are discussing here.

http://youtu.be/9qabv80Ei0U

Just check out that video...
R9 at his very best pulling elasticos, doing 360s, among other moves.
Taking on 4-5 defenders at the same time without breaking a sweat!

chipped goals? He did this many times (against Barca) and he did this last with Corinthians (not bad for someone who at that point had gone under the knife 5 times).
Maradona-like goals/Messi-like goals (His Compostela goal, his goal against Valencia, Atletico Madrid, his solo run against Chile...
headers (I've seen him score a few good amount of goals with his head/not his forte though) long range (YUP - plenty of those). I've seen him score with his arse, his belly, his chest, etc.

Messi like goal? Whatever do you mean? CUT from the right and shoot to the left corner? Or wait inside the box and wait for either XAVI, INIESTA, VILLA, or PEDRO to pass the ball back to him where he is (usually in the middle)?

PS - I can assure you, both Pele and Maradona were better than Messi.
 

Dagoods

Registered User
ANd don't even make me talk about what he MEANS to football!
This man has left his mark. He revolutionized his position, established NIKE as a brand (During his peak, The R9 brand - sold as much as the JUMP MAN brand world wide).

Messi on the other hand?

http://youtu.be/A0LMHYA3LdQ
This is after the 2011 Copa America...
But Messi has made up for it though. I mean he did score 3 goals against Brazil's mighty Olympic Team LMFAO - the same team that got their arses handed to them by Mexico :D

R9's Influence:

http://youtu.be/uqdDkvraSFI
Before and after R9

http://youtu.be/Iw68Mx4bvZg
JUST look at that goal: 2:50-55 WOOOW - There's only one IL FENOMENO!!!
 

AgentZero

Registered User
If your going to compare marketing of eras that a little naive, the markets much more mature now and players like Messi would have little branding/impact than what Ronaldo had, who clearly was Nikes (who was a fairly new to football at the time) only star to enjoy full fledge marketing effort.
 
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