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Second Demo, Second Opinion

Amateur

Registered User
Okay, I see where you're trying to come from. However, let's take United/Chelsea that just finished as an example. I believe Terry made possibly one or two tackles at most...so not to cause an arguement, but it's obviously not bullshit that in 90 minutes of play Terry sometimes makes very little tackles. Now come the next game, Terry may make 10+ tackles, so I'm not claiming that every game consists of defenders making very few tackles, because that's not always the case, but it's the same with Pro. Some games you wont need to make many, just like real life. Sometimes you will, granted you grasp how to make those tackles. Terry made no more than maybe two today from what I can honestly rememeber (I wasn't counting, but I cant remember him making many at all)...so while I get where you're trying to come from, you cant really say it's bullshit, when in fact it does happen and has happened in front of every bodies eyes today, if that makes sense.

I honestly see exactly where tech was coming from, he summed up the defensive side of things to near on perfection. I know you two are having this rather petty argument, but his original post summed it up very well...and the problem is man, he's playing the game, you haven't even played the game...and it doesn't matter if you've viewed it or anything, until you actually play it, I don't see how you can really expect to be taken seriously in this aspect. And I'm not insulting you or anything with that or trying to cause an argument, just giving my opinion man.

If you actually count the number of tackles, you may find that I'm not trying to come from anywhere, and you might perhaps find that it is bullshit for as long as you cannot provide solid facts or numbers. Furthermore, John Terry is one player, in PES you control ten players, therefore the argument is flawed due to obvious reasons, which is why, obviously, tech did not summed up the defensive side of things to near on perfection, because he is disregarding a very obvious fact in order to support his opinion, therefore making it a false or erroneous argument.

If I play BAL with a defender, then yes, the argument makes sense; on the other hand, if you are talking about the classic footy sim, where the user controls all the players on the pitch, then no, the argument does not make sense. I am not trying to come from anywhere, as far as I'm concerned, I am not trying to express a point, I am making a point, and a very simple and obvious point at that.

Like you, I am just giving my opinion, I find your use of the phrase "I see where you're trying to come from" insulting and condescending; I do not need to play the video game, I do not even need to watch the video game, to know why the argument is flawed, if you cannot see why, I disagree with you.
 

JMTD

Registered User
If you actually count the number of tackles, you may find that I'm not trying to come from anywhere, and you might perhaps find that it is bullshit for as long as you cannot provide solid facts or numbers. Furthermore, John Terry is one player, in PES you control ten players, therefore the argument is flawed due to obvious reasons, which is why, obviously, tech did not summed up the defensive side of things to near on perfection, because he is disregarding a very obvious fact in order to support his opinion, therefore making it a false or erroneous argument.

If I play BAL with a defender, then yes, the argument makes sense; on the other hand, if you are talking about the classic footy sim, where the user controls all the players on the pitch, then no, the argument does not make sense. I am not trying to come from anywhere, as far as I'm concerned, I am not trying to express a point, I am making a point, and a very simple and obvious point at that.

Like you, I am just giving my opinion, I find your use of the phrase "I see where you're trying to come from" insulting and condescending; I do not need to play the video game, I do not even need to watch the video game, to know why the argument is flawed, if you cannot see why, I disagree with you.

Okay last post on this as you're obviously not going to change your opinion or even bother to understand what I'm trying to put across. This is his post:

Sorry Athlon, but I'm not with you at all. How many tackles does John Terry make in a game? Answer - perhaps one or two. In NINETY F'KIN MINUTES!! Defenders don't 'tackle' a great deal, do you know why? Because the attackers are too sharp and quick! I was thinking about this yesterday. I played a real life game of football on Wednesday night, and I'm a defender. In ninety minutes have a guess how many times I tackled an opponent? Once! And that was to block a shot from a guy shooting twelve yards out.

TACKLING is one of the hardest things to do in this day and age especially at the top level. Why do you think Ronaldo gets fouled a lot, or Ribbery or Bale. How many times does Bale get tackled?

Think about it.

This game has tackling spot on and makes you think about unit positioning. If you defend properly by positioning, CPU attacks will peter out just like in real life. If you try to constantly tackle Rooney, Giggs and Nani and so on, guess what, you'll get punished.

Now I'm no expert, but isn't that what happens in real life. I don't want tackling easier, I want it like it is. The art of defending is 90-95% reading the game and positioning yourself. Only like 5% is actually tackling anybody!

In this regards, PES has it spot on.

To anybody complaining the game is too fast on demo 2, knock it down to game speed -1. I agree that players like Ribbery and Robben can be too responsive for the human reflex on game speed 0. I find -1 is the perfect balance. All this on Top Player.

He doesn't say something like only two tackles are being made by the entire team. You said he was talking bullshit with what he said about Terry, well this is what I say. Go and watch United/Chelsea from today and then tell me it's bullshit. Seriously, go and do it. You cant sit and say it's bullshit when it's really not. These things happen in real life. You seem to be completely changing what he said. I'd say the only part of his post that's debatable is the percentages, I'd probably budge up the 5% to something like 15%, but other than that he's spot on.

You can try and say that you don't need to play the game, but yes you do. You cant tell me you understand the defensive side of this game if you haven't even played it. You're going to continue to try to argue that, fine, because I'm not even going to bother to reply to that anymore, because it's kinda pointless until you bother to play it. I feel like you're taking offense to me having an opinion and trying to actually discuss something with you, so I'll leave it at that, you obviously believe you're the brains and most knowledgeable person when it comes to any discussion like this, yet you're the same person that called bullshit on the Terry stuff yet it's proven that it's not bullshit.
 

Sminky

Registered User
Well just when I thought it couldn't get any worse I realised I had only been playing on Professional and not Top Player :pinderpalm:

Switched to Top Player and lost 1-0, 1-0, 3-0 (as I regularly did on Professional) but created more chances.

It's easily the hardest version of PES I've ever played, there's too much for me to comprehend in terms of dribbling and off the ball controls. I'm bloody awful at PES2012, for me its just too difficult.

I think that's me done with PES. I honestly can't see myself getting any better.
 

JMTD

Registered User
Well just when I thought it couldn't get any worse I realised I had only been playing on Professional and not Top Player :pinderpalm:

Switched to Top Player and lost 1-0, 1-0, 3-0 (as I regularly did on Professional) but created more chances.

It's easily the hardest version of PES I've ever played, there's too much for me to comprehend in terms of dribbling and off the ball controls. I'm bloody awful at PES2012, for me its just too difficult.

I think that's me done with PES. I honestly can't see myself getting any better.

Have faith man, things can only get better. Think of how good it will feel when you pull something special off, when you get a last minute goal or when you grasp those dibbling and off the ball controls. That's an old school feeling that Pro used to give, just think of the benefits in the long run. You'll get there eventually mate :)
 

StringerBell

Registered User
Well just when I thought it couldn't get any worse I realised I had only been playing on Professional and not Top Player :pinderpalm:

Switched to Top Player and lost 1-0, 1-0, 3-0 (as I regularly did on Professional) but created more chances.

It's easily the hardest version of PES I've ever played, there's too much for me to comprehend in terms of dribbling and off the ball controls. I'm bloody awful at PES2012, for me its just too difficult.

I think that's me done with PES. I honestly can't see myself getting any better.

I had initial problems with this years game believe it or not like any game you'll get better at it.
 

Sminky

Registered User
Have faith man, things can only get better. Think of how good it will feel when you pull something special off, when you get a last minute goal or when you grasp those dibbling and off the ball controls. That's an old school feeling that Pro used to give, just think of the benefits in the long run. You'll get there eventually mate :)

I can't score mate! My passing style that I used to dominate opponents on PES2008 / 2009 / 2010 & 2011 just doesn't work on PES2012.
 

mvrander

Registered User
I've only played about 5 games, all on top player and I've yet to lose.

Oddly in 2011 I struggled a lot agains the CPU but played 2000 games on MLO and got a 60% win percentage. Perhaps the AI acting more like a human in 2012 is favouring the multiplayer players early on.

Who knows.
 

Amateur

Registered User
You can try and say that you don't need to play the game, but yes you do. You cant tell me you understand the defensive side of this game if you haven't even played it.

I never said I understood the defensive side of the game, that's you putting words in my mouth, which I also find offensive and condescending. What I actually said, was that I merely agreed with the person who said that a video game should offer an actual button to determine when you tackle, the same way you have an actual button to determine when you pass the ball.

If passing the ball was as simple as directing the left analog stick without the assistance of any other button, people would complain about the lack of a button to determine when you pass the ball; that's what certain people are complaining about, the lack of a button to determine exactly when you execute a standing tackle.

Tech merely said that since (according to him) John Terry usually tackles once or twice in 90 minutes of play, it is not necessary to have a button to determine when you want to execute the standing tackle.

I disagree with him, because in PES you control all the players on the pitch, you do not only control John Terry, therefore a button to determine when you want to execute a standing tackle is, in my opinion, very important.

I fail to see why you and your buddy tech want to bend my words, and make it look like I understand the defensive side of the game even though I have not even played the game; I am merely talking about something fundamental, which is the lack of a button to determine when you want to execute a standing tackle, which is something that I can criticize without the necessity of playing the game and without the necessity of understanding the defensive aspect of the video game. If you cannot comprehend where I'm coming from, you are conveniently dismissing my point on the basis that I cannot criticize the game without actually playing it; and I ask you, if I play the game, will it change the fact that there's no actual button to determine when I execute a standing tackle?
 

James_dean

Registered User
I can't score mate! My passing style that I used to dominate opponents on PES2008 / 2009 / 2010 & 2011 just doesn't work on PES2012.

A little tip for you Sminky.

Take your time when passing the ball. Wait for players to make their move and build up your attacking moves slowly. When you finally have your opponent defending deep in their own half apply pressure with high defense but watch out for counter attacks!
My advise is "Put some thought in every pass you make and have a strategy for every match you play"
And of course it takes many games to master every Pes game. Patience sminky.

It’s not how you fall; it’s what you do after you get up.
 

JMTD

Registered User
I never said I understood the defensive side of the game, that's you putting words in my mouth, which I also find offensive and condescending. What I actually said, was that I merely agreed with the person who said that a video game should offer an actual button to determine when you tackle, the same way you have an actual button to determine when you pass the ball.

If passing the ball was as simple as directing the left analog stick without the assistance of any other button, people would complain about the lack of a button to determine when you pass the ball; that's what certain people are complaining about, the lack of a button to determine exactly when you execute a standing tackle.

Tech merely said that since (according to him) John Terry usually tackles once or twice in 90 minutes of play, it is not necessary to have a button to determine when you want to execute the standing tackle.

I disagree with him, because in PES you control all the players on the pitch, you do not only control John Terry, therefore a button to determine when you want to execute a standing tackle is, in my opinion, very important.

I fail to see why you and your buddy tech want to bend my words, and make it look like I understand the defensive side of the game even though I have not even played the game; I am merely talking about something fundamental, which is the lack of a button to determine when you want to execute a standing tackle, which is something that I can criticize without the necessity of playing the game and without the necessity of understanding the defensive aspect of the video game. If you cannot comprehend where I'm coming from, you are conveniently dismissing my point on the basis that I cannot criticize the game without actually playing it; and I ask you, if I play the game, will it change the fact that there's no actual button to determine when I execute a standing tackle?

So what you're saying is that A/X, the button used to do standing tackles, doesn't exist? Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Funny, because I just played a game and what do you know, I used A to do a standing tackle, yet according to you no such button exists. People may complain about that method of tackling, guess why? Because it's been made harder to pull off, which guess what? Is the exact same case in real life. That's pretty much the point I'm trying to explain to you mate. You time pressing and releasing it to do the tackle, it doesn't get much simpler.

First you say it's bullshit that Terry sometimes only does a couple of tackles in a game, which when pulled up on, you just move on to something else. Now you claim there's no standing tackle button, when there is.
 

Sminky

Registered User
A little tip for you Sminky.

Take your time when passing the ball. Wait for players to make their move and build up your attacking moves slowly. When you finally have your opponent defending deep in their own half apply pressure with high defense but watch out for counter attacks!
My advise is "Put some thought in every pass you make and have a strategy for every match you play"
And of course it takes many games to master every Pes game. Patience sminky.

It’s not how you fall; it’s what you do after you get up.

I've tried pretty much everything I can think of, retained possession waited for passing opportunities varied my passing from short to long ball and to no avail in the final third. My biggest problem is executing through balls, something that was too easy on PES2011 is so much tougher on PES2012. In one sense it does mean the one trick ponies are at a disadvantage but its still bloody difficult for me too.

I'm not sure whether a season on ML or even playing MLO is going to help, I suspect if I play a season on ML at Top Player I'll be lucky to get a point from most games. The running off the ball to make space for the through balls would be easier if I could grasp the nature of assisted passing. I switched it right off and now I'm lucky to get it to my own players. Tis a frustrating experience for an old timer such as myself. I feel there's too much to contemplate. I may just buy a PS2 and return to the warmth and safety of PES6 :D
 

MustBe21orUp

Registered User
I've tried pretty much everything I can think of, retained possession waited for passing opportunities varied my passing from short to long ball and to no avail in the final third. My biggest problem is executing through balls, something that was too easy on PES2011 is so much tougher on PES2012. In one sense it does mean the one trick ponies are at a disadvantage but its still bloody difficult for me too.

I'm not sure whether a season on ML or even playing MLO is going to help, I suspect if I play a season on ML at Top Player I'll be lucky to get a point from most games. The running off the ball to make space for the through balls would be easier if I could grasp the nature of assisted passing. I switched it right off and now I'm lucky to get it to my own players. Tis a frustrating experience for an old timer such as myself. I feel there's too much to contemplate. I may just buy a PS2 and return to the warmth and safety of PES6 :D

jesus christ dude, is sounds like you need an Atari 2600 with one joystick and 1 red button. I think the current state of gaming/controllers are way too fucking advanced for you. stop whining about the damn game being hard...go play something easier if you can't learn the game.
 

JackWilshere

Registered User
Why does shooting from inside the box not work?

Shooting from outside the box is fine and it's well balanced, but whenever I try to shoot from inside the box, even if I take my time and have space, I seem to have no control over the power or direction of the shot.

I find A LOT of shots just get smashed straight at the keeper at around head height, even though I'm desperately trying to place it softly into the bottom corner by tapping shoot as lightly as possible and pressing RB straight after. (I've switched RT & RB around as I'm used to FIFA pressing RT to sprint, same thing with X and A.)
 

James_dean

Registered User
jesus christ dude, is sounds like you need an Atari 2600 with one joystick and 1 red button. I think the current state of gaming/controllers are way too fucking advanced for you. stop whining about the damn game being hard...go play something easier if you can't learn the game.


Nonononono.......

Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.
 

Sminky

Registered User
jesus christ dude, is sounds like you need an Atari 2600 with one joystick and 1 red button. I think the current state of gaming/controllers are way too fucking advanced for you. stop whining about the damn game being hard...go play something easier if you can't learn the game.

Wow. You sure told me. Boy is my face red after that put down.

:lmao:

Honestly. You kids. :facepalm:

EDIT: I've Just realised, I've been trolled! :lol:
 

StringerBell

Registered User


Is that you Sminky?
 

Craney91

Registered User
I DID IT, I DID IT, I FINALLY DID IT!!!!

I beat Inter using Rangers on top player 1-3.

After about 20 odd games, I did it.

Does anybody feel that when you score against the CPU on Top Player, it's like "No you shouldn't have done that b*tch"

Then they go straight up the other end relentlessly, dribble around your players with ease (even when perfectly timed and jockeyed) and score straight away, or the ball will bounce of your defender stupidly and go in for an own goal?

Yes you SHOULD be afraid to score against the CPU on Top Player, it's a death wish man.

Sometimes I feel like this; :eek:hmy: :w00t :laugh: :dribble: :bravo:

Then other times I feel like this; :crymore: :no: :shocking: :jongcrymore: :eek:bamahmm: :cussing:

It is a very emotional game man, that's why it is soooooooo good.
 

fick

Registered User
jesus christ dude, is sounds like you need an Atari 2600 with one joystick and 1 red button. I think the current state of gaming/controllers are way too fucking advanced for you. stop whining about the damn game being hard...go play something easier if you can't learn the game.

Don't pick on the old and infirm. It's neither big nor clever.

It's not Sminky's fault that his alzheimers prevents him from remembering simple button commands. Nor is it his fault that his weakening bladder affects his concentration and interrupts any notion of continued play. Neither is it Sminky's fault that the arthritis in his hands prevents him from holding the controller properly.

The principle of the post however is this: If you are going to belittle someone, at least make an effort. Any idiot can just flame a geriatric :folarm:
 
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