Serious Question: Why can't we have a 2013 edition of PES 6?

[Dr. Dazzle]

Like everybody else on here, I was obsessed with PES (or WE as it was known here) for the PS2. PES 6 was the ultimate, most thoroughly enjoyable football game ever made. However, the absolute embarrassment that came after the jump to PS3 scared me off to FIFA, and only now have I come back to familiar waters (though I won't get in to how some things have still not changed).

My question is this: what happened? Can somebody please give me an explanation why jumping from PS2 to PS3 had such a disastrous affect? Everything was already there in place, why can PES 2013 not be PES 6 with better graphics? How did everything just disappear and everything seemed like it just started over from scratch??

This is a serious question. I love PES and im happy to be back. It's not a moaning thread, just something that has really bothered me over these last few years.

 

[BobBobson]

Like everybody else on here, I was obsessed with PES (or WE as it was known here) for the PS2. PES 6 was the ultimate, most thoroughly enjoyable football game ever made. However, the absolute embarrassment that came after the jump to PS3 scared me off to FIFA, and only now have I come back to familiar waters (though I won't get in to how some things have still not changed).

My question is this: what happened? Can somebody please give me an explanation why jumping from PS2 to PS3 had such a disastrous affect? Everything was already there in place, why can PES 2013 not be PES 6 with better graphics? How did everything just disappear and everything seemed like it just started over from scratch??

I dont know whta pair of rose tinted glasses you are wearing but PES 6 was fucking shit. The most scripted PES that there has ever been and the only PES of my recollection where a complete n00b could beat a veteran 4-0 simply down to the AI deciding it was his lucky day.

Fuck PES 6.

Leave it in the dustbin where it belongs.

 

[muscularmatt]

Get the fuck out of here. PES 6 ishe greatest, and I won't have some gobshite coming up in here and saying it isn't.

 

[Ali]

I dont know whta pair of rose tinted glasses you are wearing but PES 6 was fucking shit. The most scripted PES that there has ever been and the only PES of my recollection where a complete n00b could beat a veteran 4-0 simply down to the AI deciding it was his lucky day.

Fuck PES 6.

Leave it in the dustbin where it belongs.

PES 6 the most scripted? Haha! No way! It's nothing compared to 2012 and 2013.
[MENTION=161344]muscularmatt[/MENTION] - don't call other members gobshites :folarm:

 

[muscularmatt]

I'll answer the OP anyway. If you, like me, still love the gameplay of 6 so much, then your best bet is to get it on PC (it's less than 2 quid on a couple of sites) and download a new option file. I believe a character by the name of The Ultimate has produced one, you should find it in the 'Older PES games' section.

 

[ytfc_fezzy77]

Thread closed then...

.. But yes PES has been bad since jumping on PS3.. however, I am enjoying this one and everytime I think I will jump ship to fifa.. I do something on PES that makes me wanna stay

 

[BobBobson]

Get the fuck out of here. PES 6 ishe greatest, and I won't have some gobshite coming up in here and saying it isn't.

Then go an play it then.

I have a PC copy of PES 6 right here and I would love to join you, except I cant cos the game is dire by modern standards.

And it is by far the most scripted PES game ever. I once threw a chair through a wooden door after I correctly predicted that an online opponent was going to score in injury time and that there was nothing I could possibly do about it.....and I used to do this all the time (predict when the game was about to fuck me up the arse, not throwing chairs through doors).

PES 6 was a bullshit travesty of the highest order.

 

[muscularmatt]

I do still play it, and the only real critiscm I have is that it's become to easy, but that's only because I've rinsed it over the past six years.

But Nothing you could possibly do about it? Come on, do you really believe that?

 

[Sminky]

PES6 was a wondrous football sim, but everything has its time and place.

 

[BobBobson]

But Nothing you could possibly do about it? Come on, do you really believe that?

More or less, yes.

In PES 6, when the AI starts seriously scripting against your team, practically everything you attempt with a less than 90% certainty of success, would turn out a bit askew, giving opposition team advantage/posession of the ball. Likewise, everything opposition team does, just happens to work a treat. In these circumstances, one team has a massively increased chance of conceding a goal and the other team a massively increased chance of scoring a goal.

Many well seasoned Pro Evo players can intuitively sense when the AI starts scripting against them and Pro Ev games have always been this way and PES 2013 is no different, but PES6 really took the biscuit. PES 6 was the only PES game where a total n00b could beat a veteran just down to 'luck'. Considering the rage that such blatant scripting could induce in competitive or online situations, PES 6 was quite frankly a disgusting game.

I wouldnt say it was however the worst PES ever.

Worst PES list:

PES 2008 (train wreck)
PES 4 (100% exploit goalfest)
PES 2011 (ZZZzzz)
PES 6 (Scripted pile of garbage)

But on reflection, definitely the 4th worst PES.

 

[muscularmatt]

If you gave me a thousand games against 'total n00bs', I would not lose any of them. I've just won the treble on ML, on the hardest settings with a non superstar-laden team. I played at the same level in every match, throughout it's length. I genuinely can't see the point you are making.

 

[Dr. Dazzle]

You guys are straying a bit off topic here. The point of my question was not to debate which is the best PES. My question is why a jump from one platform to another destroyed all of the work that had built up to that point.

 

[foosh_pes]

It didn't destroy it by moving to a different platform. You are just getting older.

p.s. PES 5 was the best PES ever made, 6 was a pile of dogshit.

 

[muscularmatt]

BZZZZZZZZT! Wrong! 5 was nowhere near as good as 6.

 

[foosh_pes]

BZZZZZZZZT! Wrong! 5 was nowhere near as good as 6.

Are you kidding me? I don't know about you, but I played PES4, which was ok, and then 5 came out and it was like WOOAHHH - I still smash it on the PS3 sometimes (I can play older PS games on mine). 6 was a clone with a shitty facelift, just like 10 and 11 were to PES09.

There is a pattern - every year Konami bring out a new Game Engine, or alters the gameplay itself, the game gets better, and then they just facelift it for a few years.

 

[BobBobson]

You guys are straying a bit off topic here. The point of my question was not to debate which is the best PES. My question is why a jump from one platform to another destroyed all of the work that had built up to that point.

They didn't exactly destroy it.

PES 2008, was obvioulsy a work in progress that should never have been released....but it was.

PES 2009 was the game that PES 2008 should have been and a natural progression from PES 6. The biggest problem however was the online functionality. Another problem was that perhaps the game wasn't evolving as quick as it should. Up until PES 2012 'new gen' PES games were very similar to thier PS2 predecessors and when compared to FIFA, PES in most respects was lagging far behind.

With PES 2013, Konami are definitely back at the table both in terms of offering both an original and exciting gaming experience and in terms of the online functionality. The battle from a Konami point of view however is to win back the fanbase that they have by now alienated and pushed over to the dark side.

 

[muscularmatt]

Okay maybe I was being harsh with 'nowhere near as good', but 6 is still the better game. Plays more fluently, and the referees in 5 just ruin it.

 

[che_don_john]

My question is this: what happened? Can somebody please give me an explanation why jumping from PS2 to PS3 had such a disastrous affect?

Here's my take on it all.

PES 2008 was pretty much the same gameplay-wise as PES 6; the only difference, or problem, was that 'big name' players were invincible, just impossible to tackle, which really upset the balance and overall quality of the gameplay (and ruined online mode).

However, the biggest difference between 6 and 2008 was the lack of editing features; the editing and customisation aspect was massively scaled down for 2008.

Now, what Konami should have done is completely rework the editing features (ie. make it as good as PES 4 - 6), and make the small change to gameplay by fixing the invincible players. Instead, they fixed the editing (great) but then decided to completely revamp the gameplay (not great). Thus PES 2009 was born, and we've suffered crap PES games ever since.

Part of the reason for the change/downturn in gameplay has, for me, been due to Konami misinterpreting and misunderstanding what PES players want. A small but very vocal part of the community cried out for more 'realism' and more licenses but, alas, realism doesn't necessarily make for a better game. Yes, it's realistic for a goalkeeper to make a ridiculous error once in a while, but does that make for a better video game? I'd say definitely not. The outcome of a game should be determined by the skill of the people playing it, not by stupid random factors inserted for the sake of realism.

And as for the licensing; well, you get the feeling that a lot of effort has gone into this, and towards the aesthetics in general, at the expense of focusing on the gameplay. We don't need licenses, boots, advertising boards, correct hair cuts, or proper celebrations. Just give us a comprehensive editing mode (and one that creates single option files rather than the 600+ files we have to download now) and we'll sort all that out ourselves like we did in the old days!

So, in short, Konami tried to fix their game after 2008, but fixed the wrong parts, and then started listening to the wrong people - new, young fans who were suckers for bells and whistles - rather than their core, dedicated group who'd been with them since ISS Pro Evolution and just wanted to have a game that plays well.

And that is why I and many others still play PES 6 today!

 

[Makavelian]

I dont know whta pair of rose tinted glasses you are wearing but PES 6 was fucking shit. The most scripted PES that there has ever been and the only PES of my recollection where a complete n00b could beat a veteran 4-0 simply down to the AI deciding it was his lucky day.

Fuck PES 6.

Leave it in the dustbin where it belongs.

PES6 certainly took on a more arcade approach compared to the greatest PES (5)
But it was still an awesome game.

 

[Macheda]

Lads, chill. You have your favourite games and for different reasons, stop this pathetic arguing; we're not a FIFA site.

On topic, the game probably couldn't port to the next gen consoles, PES 6 was good however very basic. Putting that onto the next gen at the time probably came across as an unimaginative and basic idea, really not making the most of the new software.