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Throwing this one out there - but I think PES 2011 is better than 2012!

techboy11

Registered User
Okay guys, I have had time to digest the game and play it in all its form. I have played the PS3 version to death, and played the PC version. I have played it out of the box, with the patches, and with mods. Whilst it does indeed play a smooth game, there's just been something niggling away at me. You see, this game should have been the one I was after, a kind of cross between the PES values combined with FIFA fluidity in movement. However, I have concluded that for me, PES 2012 is too arcade, and I re-bought PES 2011 and have been glued to it all afternoon.

Now before anyone goes on about the novelty value of a new game, I played 2011 to death. It was the game that brought out the raw emotion in me, and was the game that almost triggered off me throwing my controller through my brand new plasma tele. When I started playing 2012 I remember thinking it would be the end of those 'through ball' issues, and the cheat scripts of PES 2011. It was meant to be the perfect game for me.

I have played it and played it, and I must admit to having liked it on PS3 initially (although now I hate on PS3) and think a modded PC version is very good. But the games are all starting to blend into one now.

The golden chalice for me with 2012 is to try and get the f'kin CPU to hold onto possession and work me around the pitch. This I believe has become a fruitless and pointless task. I firmly believe now that 2011 was THE simulation version, and oh how I missed it. In comparison, 2012 is best played at 100mph, three bar assist and attack after counter attack after counter attack. If this was KONAMI's wish then they succeeded in making a very fun game which is meant to be played at speed.

But there has been something missing for me. The fact that all players can turn on a dime I started to hate. The fact that player individuality seemed lost and that everyone played more or less the same and had the same sort of feedback off the controller was wrong. The only difference I can really ascertain is shot power and speed. All players go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye and there seems to be no acceleration or deceleration process taking place. Moreover, players don't feel like they should. Gerrard should feel well built, but not the quickest. Carragher should feel complete but slow and slightly sluggish. And player posture and direction should count for everything when passing the ball.

All this seems lost in 2012. I went back to 2011 today and I'm having a blast. Straight on top player, starting where I left off in April with a Master League Liverpool team. I had Forlan up front. The difference in gameplay was striking and shocking! Forlan felt agile, quick, always alert etc, Carragher and my defence felt like defenders, slightly a little ponderous, but strong. Each and every player had a personality trait that I could work with. At first I thought Jesus, as the controls were being grappled with, and as I was trying to fire off quick long passes but without the required body shape etc, the old adage of play the way you are facing was never truer!

But rather surprisingly there were other things which absolutely brought joy to my face. The keepers...I thought they were just adequate in 2011, but oh no, they were absolutely brilliant. There's a sweet spot in PES now like the old FIFA approach the goal from the corner finesse shot, which always goes in now for me, but I couldn't do that on 2011. The CPU were playing possession football, there was a period against Arsenal were they pinned me back and passed it for around twenty to thirty seconds of game time, this was totally foreign.

Arsenal played possession and a high line, so did Chelsea. Then I played Man Utd who were dangerous on the break, and lost to Everton on penalties in an FA Cup Semi-Final game, on penalties (forget how to take them lol).

The CPU was playing the ball back and forth, and changing the pace up with sprints and long balls.

But the shocking thing was that I remember always complaining about cheating and through balls and bad defenders....I have yet to encounter any such thing, which begs the question was I defending correctly in the first place? I really do believe that playing PES 2012 has added to my game defensively, and each and every game played out wonderfully with no cheating going on. It begs the question whether me defensive technique first time round on 2011 was THAT GOOD or was I not that great?

Shots have venom again and the ball physics and passing controls are fantastic. I am having a ball again.

So what do you think peeps, for me anyway, I strongly believe that PES 2011, on reflection and having played it again for the first time in over 7 months, is probably THE SIMULATION of PES! I know that is a bold statement, but in comparison, 2012 looks like an end to end arcade game in both response and the feel of the game. I know that 2011 had a lot of hate, but I have fallen in love with this game all over again. The moves I am creating and some of the football I am playing is superb.

It's strange really, because I remember vividly having some anger management issues with 2011, the game meant that much to me when I was fully immersed. I have never had that feeling with either PES 2012 or FIFA 2012 this year, it's just been meh. Suddenly though I can feel the heart beat going again - PES 2011, sorry I sold you, all is forgiven!
 

Marcus Wright

Registered User
I agree with you.
Too baad very few people agree with us that PES 2011 is superior to PES2012.

PES2012 feels arcadish and that alone was enough to take me back to 2011. Also, players have no individuality as you said.

Only differranc ebetween me and you is that I understood this after 1 week and you after 7 months.:lol:

I think that PES 2011 is the best football simulation to date.
 

techboy11

Registered User
The thing is when a new game comes out I feel that I have to give it as best a shot as I can muster. For 2012, this has been a painful, painful situation. I literally tried everything barring the kitchen sink; monitors, tvs, gamespeeds, formations, tactics, patches, mods, console/PC!?!?

Every possible variation that there is I have done. But fundamentally I, or indeed the modding community, just cannot change the way it is fundamentally designed. Once the initial novelty factor has worn off of having ALL this freedom with ALL this player movement, you are left wondering just what the game has become.

You see, for me, in PES 2012 there is now just too many options with regards to player movement. It is possible to play like Barcelona even easier than before. But for me, like you said Marcus, is just the players on the ball and how they feel on the controller. No doubt I'll get some rage as some point regarding PES 2011; but then again isn't that what a game is all about? I lost to Chelsea 2-1 yesterday and their goals weren't cheap CPU dribbles. They were two thunderbolt drives, one from long range specialist Frankie Lampard, and the other from Torres. They were both worldy efforts, but in the contexts of field position, lack of pressure on the ball, who was striking it, and the end result (shooting is just so much more enjoyable) the outcome was perfectly believable. And again I stress, the CPU try and work you with passing the ball rather than relying on dribbling alone.

Marcus Wright, I salute thee lol!
 

Sabatasso

Banned
Try playing PES12 with original exe, yair 2.0b or yair 2.3 on Konami Stadium.

I firmly believe that the stadium makes a big difference.

I also like PES2011 by the way.
 

Ali

It is happening again
I liked PES 2011 despite its problems. I hate PES 2012 because of its problems.
 

techboy11

Registered User
Try playing PES12 with original exe, yair 2.0b or yair 2.3 on Konami Stadium.

I firmly believe that the stadium makes a big difference.

I also like PES2011 by the way.

Hey Sab,

Yeah done all that fella. I've tweaked the game til my heart is content, and was using 2.3, which was excellent.

BUT - the core problems of PES 2012 will never go away no matter how many patches or tweaks or gameplay exes come out; that the game is designed to go forward, forward, forward all the time. The way the CPU this year has been given 'the dribbling card' ensures that the CPU tries to go from back to front not through passing, but by a maze of dribbling.

When I went back to PES 2011 last night I was back to what I felt at home with, the CPU passing it about the back four if I pressed in certain areas, the CPU having variation in its play, and proper real life physics and motion having to be adhered to when passing the ball. It's as if all players are like Messi now.

I would give anything for a gameplay exe which MAKES the CPU keep possession and pass it about a bit, but it ain't happening dude.
 

S-D-P

Registered User
I think pes 2011 was an underrated game I was honestly hooked to master league at times playing the AI felt more organic than pes 2012. Overall I do slightly prefer pes 2012 as it feels more complete than pes 2011, that said I put an immense amount of hours into pes 2011.

Things I preferred about pes 2011

- Manual pass with LT was wonderful, felt more precise than 2012
- Master league was better without the cut scenes
- I preferred standing tackles in pes 2011, standing tackling in pes 2012 can be impossible at times although the ratio of successful tackles is more realistic in 2012
- Manual crossing with the modifier
- Long balls relied more on user input and had more variation.
 

Makavelian

Registered User
It's so sad the direction they've took the game.
2011 mlo was so epic.
Multiplayer is so dreadful in 2012.
2 v 2 was also amazing last year but it's a bag of wank this year.
Player switching might of been slightly improved upon last year, but at the expense of less freedom when defending.
Player switching in 2v2 is broken, but was flawless in 2011.
Classic konami, fix one thing and then break multiple other things.
 

IronCity

Banned
The starry-eyed daze after being tackled in 2011 where your player just stands there is one thing I could do without. Although this past weekend I began to feel 2012 has that but in a different form - in 2012 the player stays on the ground too long after falling over. I know a lot of real players stay down and pout when knocked over but not when in the box - they are all about getting up to get that ball in the net.
 

[PST]SuSpEcT

Registered User
Guys come now PES 2011 a good version I like it but there some problems like I couldn't play it indivisualy couldn't dribble with Messi or Ronaldo or Eto'o from 35m distance to the goal because of the defense .. the defense are so tough in PES 2011 although it's a good game and it had alot of fun stuff fun leagues to create and for me it was the better back in days because in PES 2010 or 2009 I couldn't create stadium or add leagues logo and ofcourse in PS3 version .. but when PES 2012 relased I felt like something took from me or playing PES and I realized it was the fun and the goals from center another 100 things I felt also that PES 2012 took over me and it was better with days it was greatest coz I didn't touch PES 09 or 2010 or 2011's version only 2012 .. it have some problem like the stupid refrees and the smart a** keepers many thing need to be changed .. but now PES 2012 is beeter for me .. and my brother and cousins .. :D
easily u can play 2 in each team co-op matchs .. ":D
 

Makavelian

Registered User
Dribbling and shooting are just beyond shit this year.
Dribbling is just to easy and the shooting is an embarassment.
 

techboy11

Registered User
Dribbling and shooting are just beyond shit this year.
Dribbling is just to easy and the shooting is an embarassment.

I agree. The main problem I have with 2012 is that all the players feel like Ronaldo and Messi, they all have to much fluidity and ease of response. I thought this would be what i was after, a kind of mix between PES values and FIFA fluidity, but now if it comes to whether I want my player to have complete ease of movement or turn more awkwardly (aka real life) then I want the latter. I don't want Carragher spinning on a dime, but I want him to be strong and good in the air. The main thing that sticks out for me in 2011 is player individuality, Forlan feels like Forlan and my defenders feel like defenders. In 2012, I think everyone could honestly be inter-changeable. The only thing I see between them stats wise is shot power difference and perhaps top speed. Apart from that they are all pretty much the same.
 

Sminky

Registered User
Despite how frustrating I found PES2010 - which was a dire iteration - and PES2011 I still bought them on multiple occasions despite how disgusted I felt with the game each time I got shot of it.

PES2012 is the first and only version I bought and promptly returned and did not re-purchase. I'd never turn to FIFA so I'm a minus a footie game on my PS3 for the first time in years. PES2012 for me was poor, daft dribbling, amazing crossing and speed merchantry that epically killed the game. As bad as PES2011 was in terms of scripting and as frustrating as it was it was vastly superior for me.
 

techboy11

Registered User
Despite how frustrating I found PES2010 - which was a dire iteration - and PES2011 I still bought them on multiple occasions despite how disgusted I felt with the game each time I got shot of it.

PES2012 is the first and only version I bought and promptly returned and did not re-purchase. I'd never turn to FIFA so I'm a minus a footie game on my PS3 for the first time in years. PES2012 for me was poor, daft dribbling, amazing crossing and speed merchantry that epically killed the game. As bad as PES2011 was in terms of scripting and as frustrating as it was it was vastly superior for me.

I'll tell you the thing though Smink, after going back to 2012 from 2011, the scripting doesn't seem nearly as bad as I remember, even to the point where I'd say I've played 10 games now, and I can't see a single cheat script in operation. Which begs the question, has 2012 honed my skills, or is the way I defend in 2012 totally the way I was supposed to defend in PES2011. Having a blast at the moment on 2011. Nightmare today though, just installed shit loads of stuff for the PC version, and the game has crashed.

Another point to make, is that I don't really think the graphics are that improved this year either. Take the PC version for example, the graphics last year and player models were stunning compared to this year. What gives aye?
 

Makavelian

Registered User
I really hope they remove full automatic passing online next year.
Any mug can just keep the ball now with no thought.
Pes 2011 was far from perfect and riddled with flaws. I was hoping they would build on that game rather than this what they produced this year.
Constant beast mode defending was possible once you learnt how to cut out low crosses and other glitch attacking from 2011. The defence certainly had to little a.i but it was possible to pump some intelligence into the sometimes retarded defenders.
Pes2012 on the other hand I feel the defence has to much a.i at times .
Example, defending crosses is just pot look majority of the time. The of the ball movement by the defender when the cross is coming in is totally broke.
 

S-D-P

Registered User
Dribbling and shooting are just beyond shit this year.
Dribbling is just to easy and the shooting is an embarassment.

I honestly thing dribbling is sublime, the variation you can achieve by subtle use of close control is great. Love the shooting to, just find it frustrating on superstar when the AI blocks almost everything and you have to be really firm when picking your direction.
 

IronCity

Banned
Another point to make, is that I don't really think the graphics are that improved this year either. Take the PC version for example, the graphics last year and player models were stunning compared to this year. What gives aye?

Agreed, in fact I would say the graphics for PS3 took a step back in 2012. 2011 looked so realistic at times. Adding to the problem is that in 2012 the players skate small circles without moving their feet making the graphics just look too fake.
 

techboy11

Registered User
Just to compound this theory I have gotten my PC version of PES to work, with PES Edit. The game looks stunning. Ball physics are spot on, passing is a joy, players movement give you a nice blend of manoeuvrability whilst keeping stats in mind for less agile players. The lighting and pitches look better and like I said before, the plater models and animations are better. I went from playing my PS3 version of 2011 last night to 2012 and I was amazed at how shit everything looked. The game also felt completely broken in areas as I haven't played in a good few days.

And the instant thing you notice is that passing is no longer the modus operandi, it's all forward dribbling, forward dribbling. I also downloaded the FIFA commentary patch for my PC 2011 version; so what I have is brilliant gameplay, brilliant graphics, brilliant commentary, and a CPU that passes the fkin the ball....why did I move lol
 

MozzyEng

Registered User
I was thinking of getting hold of 2011 again. Got rid of it because of the shite online lag, But must admit i enjoyed the gameplay and the little bit of master league i played. From what i remember the shooting was far better!. And i never really noticed any graphical changes either. Was thinking bout this the other night when i kept getting owned by arsenal in master league (2012) by an obvious dose of rigged computer play, Kept starting the game again but the ai had had there orders to destroy me twats lol
 
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