Unofficial - How are you doing in Master League?

[Formaggio]

I love simming games. Not sure why. I used to do it with Gretzky hockey back in 1989. So it's something i've always liked to do. Strange, i know.

I have had no problems fulfilling the bosses requests so far. All but the 'promotion to Serie A' have been no problems fulfilling. I know this can be done. It's just a matter of getting through the rough times. Like the dreaded beginning. What makes it hard is the strapped budget. In PES 2011 I started with 120 million. I refuse to use that maximum funds setting.

Players develop fine. No different than the last game.

I'm trying a fifth time. One more time on professional. This time i kept everyone from the original squad line-up, except for the ones i have absolutely no spot for, and the ones who are too old. Brought in a couple youth team players.

With the remaining funds i hired a million dollar scout, a 500 thousand dollar trainer, and a somewhat skilled player from targets. That leaves me with $477,000, which I'll use to try and convince a skilled player to come play for me, once the better scout kicks in during the season.

I was going to put 200 grand into marketing, but i'm not big on marketing unless the team is half decent. I want to try one last time on professional.

Hope you get your computer going, Stiker. I'd go mad without a decent computer to run my favorite games.

Payments would do me fine.

 

[stiker]

thanks man, its a ps3... the old 80gig one

 

[Formaggio]

Hey, Stiker, check this out...

I got fired for the 5th time.



So the way they have the game set up, they've obviously made it too hard to succeed in my AI vs AI matchups.

I think the main problem is the 3.6 million they start you out with. That's 116.4 million less than last year's budget. A budget that low is impossible to overcome.

You'll get fired for sure and you'll never get out of Division 2.

Because the AI is better, you'll rack up more losses much quicker than last year. So unless you can quickly build a team that is better than your division 2 opponents, you're screwed. Because the boss sends out his first warning about 3/4 of the way through the first season.

With so little money to spend, it just isn't possible.

So I'm going to cheat a little as an experiment. I'm going to start with 120 million by ticking off the 'max money$ settings'. I'll keep track of the funds myself.

They should have just added a starting bank account option. 3.6 million is welfare when it comes to professional football. You'd be lucky if you could spend that on new grass and a visitor's suite.

 

[stingo]

Hey, Stiker, check this out...

I got fired for the 5th time.



So the way they have the game set up, they've obviously made it too hard to succeed in my AI vs AI matchups.

I think the main problem is the 3.6 million they start you out with. That's 116.4 million less than last year's budget. A budget that low is impossible to overcome.

You'll get fired for sure and you'll never get out of Division 2.

Because the AI is better, you'll rack up more losses much quicker than last year. So unless you can quickly build a team that is better than your division 2 opponents, you're screwed. Because the boss sends out his first warning about 3/4 of the way through the first season.

With so little money to spend, it just isn't possible.

So I'm going to cheat a little as an experiment. I'm going to start with 120 million by ticking off the 'max money$ settings'. I'll keep track of the funds myself.

They should have just added a starting bank account option. 3.6 million is welfare when it comes to professional football. You'd be lucky if you could spend that on new grass and a visitor's suite.

This somewhat proves the point that players stats are dumbed down for your team on professional and higher. If you play yourself you can deal with it by playing smarter, but if you just sim matches then you have no means to overcome that disadvantage.

 

[kbon]

Well, isn't that just the way it is supposed to be? I mean you start with a team averaging ~60 in ratings. Almost the lowest of all. Why should another team playing with the same AI but with higher rating loose, except the tiny little "randomness" chance, or if you play yourself and (as stingo said) be smart?

The starting budget of 3.5 mil is fine, and pretty realistic for a very small amateur team. It gives you the choice to start with better staff, or buy 1-3 decent players for a beginning. Play a decent season, and you end up with up to 20mil for second season (cup earnings, new sponsors, selling 1-2 good players). Enough money to get a big boost, especially at mid-season with all the reborn players.

ML is about building up your team and become successfull someday, what's the point in starting with 120mil? ^^
I sim'd 3 seasons very quickly in 1-2 hours, just for testing. Only trained conditioning, and skipped right to the end of the season (1 stop at trading period) to save time. Had to play 6 matches to save my ass from getting fired. At the end, I ended up with a decent team, avg. rating 80 (need to mention that they were all pissed and wanted a trade ^^) and placed 5th. Would've done a lot better if I played myself, or used better training, etc. Still, my manager wants to fire me ^^ Seems like sim-ing gets you fired somedy anyhow.
It's ML, not Be-A-Manager, though I'd really like a Be-A-Manager mode with just managing the team. Konami should add that as an online feature...being able to set your team free for others to manage (training, trades,...)...I'd like that ^^

 

[Formaggio]

Well, compared to PES 2011, a lot has changed. I don't need 120 million to succeed at doing this. I think i only need about 3. But I wanted to experiment.

Anyway, something seemed wrong. The way the losses were just piling up. It was too drastic to be normal. Worst defense and worst offense in the league for 5 straight seasons. Worst team on the planet? No way. Not after simming PES 2011 on top player since last Christmas.

They have to at least give you some victories! -lol

I said piss on the 120 million experiment, because i knew i'd succeed. D2 teams can't compete with elite staff members and a couple solid players, so instead i uninstalled the game, reinstalled it with my patches, and started over.

I don't know, i built a team and tinkered with some settings that i never used before. i don't know what happened during this whole process, but the game is playing completely different now. The games are exciting and close. My team looks competent on the field making plays. This is pretty much the same damn starter team i built the last five times.

No idea what's going on. But the way the game is playing now is nothing like the past few days of watching 4-0, 4-0, 2-0, 3-1, 3-2, 5-2 losses over and over and over again.

We'll see how it turns out. Hope whatever the hell i did works, because i won't be able to stomach the sight of $999,999,999,999 across the top of my screen.

God, i'd have to buy FIFA. Blech....And then jump a bridge.

 

[sup bro]

Hi. I've got a different situation than most of you. I'm playing with Arsenal club lineup on Superstar and doing fairly well. I've only just started, but my games thus far have been solid and my goals would be maybe CL playoffs, Cup semis and League top 7. I doubt I'll win anything, because the odd loss still ruins standings hard.

The problem is that I might have ruined my finances tho, I'm not sure. I sold a few original players and offered professional contracts to some classic players, who, while free to sign, are now costing me millions in salary. So I'm looking at around 10 games played (I've payed this year's expenses), finances at 45 mil and next year's expenses at 120 mil.

How much can I expect to make in a season if I satisfy my aforementioned goals?

 

[Formaggio]

Sounds like you'll have to cut costs! That's a huge jump in finances!

And by cutting costs you'll likely cause yourself other problems. It gets out of hand very quickly. To the point the team is completely unmanageable. Then fired again. ~lol

You'll have to accept a drop in the standings. Then a small rebuild.

Not sure what to make of PES2012. The outcome is still the same. Fired.

Changing the difficulty settings do nothing for me. By season 2 or 3 I still get fired, playing the way i do. The only way to play the game my way would be to give myself more money.

Shame. PES2011 worked perfectly for me.

I noticed far too many goals are being scored now. They score fast and furious. In bunches, and as they please. Feels rigged. But goalies are not responsive enough. Even goalies in their 70's look below average. Season 2, Division 2 and they let goal after goal in. Hahaha...

That never happened before.

This new 'Coach Mode' is bad, too. Last year's system was 100X better.

Amazing to me that a division two offense can split your defense like an elite force. One other thing that bugs me is that goofy dribble the players do. You know the one, the little trot they do, where they take the ball and tippy-toe in some unforeseen direction for like 10 seconds before coming to their senses.

Or how about the one where they are approaching the goal head-on. And just before the 18-yard box they go into that funky half-feint, half whatever the hell it is. Slowly approaching...defender backing up...slowly approaching...defender backing up...

That goes on forever until finally, bam, the defender lunges and checks him. Or he just shoots wide. -lol

Retarded. They gotta get rid of stuff like that.

 

[Formaggio]

I was reading about football money to see what's fair.

A couple of million pounds would probably buy you any one of 30 of the 48 clubs in the lowest two professional English leagues and any club in the Blue Square Premiership (one division below League Two).

A million pounds could probably buy you any other football club below that standard (semi-professional) with a freehold ground, maybe more in London and surrounding areas, while a semi-professional club with no freehold property could probably be obtained for as little as £100,000.

In other words, 3.6 million is a friggin' joke to try and take over and finance a D2 squad. You'd have to double that to be even remotely fair.

I'm done with this welfare budget. Going to edit my Master League funds with MxSoNic's patch tool.

The question is, what is fair...

10 million sounds more than fair to me.

 

[kbon]

@sup bro
Don't give up yet! First of all check your current sponsors. Playing with the original team usually means getting huge amount of money from them. And with a solid played season you can expect to get a few more sponsors next season, usually with even higher payoffs.
The classic players you just signed can usually be sold a lot higher next season, gives you a nice boost for your finance (and decreases expenses -> double win).
Depending on your fan-base, success and marketing spendings, you gain a lot of money each home game. I guess it should be more than 1mil for Arsenal each game.
Well played tournaments (FA Cup, CL/EL) and the ranking in PremierLeague at season-end should also give a lot of money, though I don't know exactly how much (not that far in the game yet ^^), but I'm sure you can google it

@Formaggion
Nice, thanks for the summary =) But did you consider, that player salaries etc. are a lot lower in PES than in reality either? I.e. I could easily sign Neymar for less than 4mil. So I still think it's pretty fair ^^ And you said it yourself, you'd only need ~3mil to succeed.
If you want to experiment, start with an original team! =) You can still sell them all and buy lots from default team from youth. And you'd have a lot more money then to start with =)

 

[stiker]

got another ps 2day, copied my saved files from the old one, and i says it isnt mine wen i tried to load it in the new console... oh well.. looks like i am starting over

 

[sup bro]

Sponsors+home games should give me around 15+30 mil, putting me at 90, leaving me 30 mil short. I suppose if I get decent results and maybe unload a couple of good players, I'll be fine... until next season when I'm at 0 and need to raise 100 mil Then again if the sponsors start coming, I might be ok.

Thanks for the help.

Btw how much money can I expect from fan club income and merchandise sales? My marketing budget is 10 mil.

 

[kbon]

Sell 1 or 2 classic players for good money (value increases if they play), and you might be fine already ^^ Sponsors should give you more. I started with a Bundesliga team (OF) just for testing and had 17mil from sponsors. Now at the 2nd season (started with default team) I already got 4 new sponsors and get total of ~12mil. I think with Arsenal (good team, lot of fans) in PremierLeague and solid season you might get a lot more. Well, you'll find out ^^

Don't know about the merchandise. Simulate the season and you'll know =)

 

[Formaggio]

I finally found the perfect balance in Master League for simming AI vs AI matchups.

Not Beginner setting, but Amateur setting, one level up.

Don't laugh, it's still hard!

I cannot believe what they've done to this game. But now I know what the problem is now. The defense.

The defense is so tough that my computer controlled players can't break through for a goal. Rarely do they put up more than one goal. Nine times i've been fired on top player, professional and regular settings using the 3.7 million they give you. And every season it's been no contest. Total destruction.

My team is always in last place, with very few goals, yet my defence has been the best in the division more than once.

Saying that, trying to take on the challenge of trying to build a team on less than 4 million dollars makes it impossible. I know for a fact that if you try to play this game the way i do, you can't build a team that will break that kind of defense on 4 million dollars. There are too many things to spend your money on.

You could spend that entire 4 million on three good forwards and you'd still finish last. With the worst offense in the division.

PES2012 is unbalanced for AI vs AI matchups because it's made to stop us. No question. However Amateur setting is properly balanced for the AI to take on each other.

And it still remains a challenge. And fun, too. If you're into simming matchups.

This concludes my mad scientist experiment. Now complete.

I'm a happy camper because i can still play this game.

Buono Come il Pane.

 

[abu97]

at amateur and regular, the cpu run slowly, rrarely ever threaten you. Superstar is more better and realistic so it's probably that you can't score goals and create chances. I use my fifa tactics on pes 2012, pass from cmf to rmf to lmf until i find gaps which i can use to cross or thorugh ball

 

[kbon]

True, but I think you can't appy that to sim'ing games (@abu97).
@Formaggio
Thanks for the advice! Will try sim'ing with "amateur" setting sometime =)
You're right, the problem is the defense! You could already see that in all the promotional videos where Konami "praised" their Active-AI stuff...it seemed so nice because the defense was crap(!). Yep, I see it exactly the other way ^^
I think the problem with sim'ing is, that the offense has a pre-defined "set" of actions it can execute, and the defense knows that set and can react accordingly with about ~0ms reaction time (wich it can't when you play yourself and with that add some randomness/unknown_situations to it). So it would seem like defense is unbeatable, but it's just because offense AI is not "creative" enough. As you see (mentioned a lot in here), you can beat defense AI on any level when you manually play. Anyway, I think we can all agree that it's definetly not well done ^^

 

[conman]

i'm currently on my second season of ML, i started it with QPR, and straight away made a few signings Reyes, Muamba & Gomes. The first half of the season didn't go too well and i was sitting 18th at the mid-way point. So I then thought i need some changes to stay in the league so i went on to sign Djourou, Barkley, M. Davies, Andy Johnson, Paulo Ferreira & the legend that is Diego Milito. This was then a pretty tight unit, got a bit more solid at the back and could finally score a few goals (even though my top scorer ended up being Taarabt). I finished 15th at the end of the season with a run of 7 losses between playing all the big teams . Over the summer transfer period i wanted to strengthen my team from the back, so for my defence i signed Alex, Samba, Richardson, Dawson (the young one from albion not spurs), Hanley, Samba is amazing in the game. I then went on to phase 2, a little bit more creativity in the middle, so i signed Poli (from inter), Gibson, Brunt & Seb Larsson. Brunt and Larsson are amazing on my wings and can both score crackers. Then i wanted to give Milito a bit of cover so, in phase 3, extra fire power, i signed Welbeck & Briand. Now this team is totally different to the one of last season, it's more solid at the back and alot more free-flowing.
The starting XI and bench in my last game looked like this:
Gomes
Ferriera - Alex - Samba(c) - Richardson
Larsson - Poli - Gibson - Brunt
Taarabt
Milito
Bench: Bracigliano, Wright-Phillips, Djourou, Barkley, Reyes, Welbeck, Muamba.
I currently lie 4th after 5 games, next up Chelsea away!

 

[DaiSCFC]

Hi all,

I started off editing the leagues (as I usually do) and created a “super league” with the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, United, Chelsea, Juventus et all in the top flight (English League.) I then put a few really decent teams in Division 2 such as Swansea, Everton, Sunderland etc along with my team – PES United (Changed to FC United).

I quickly realised this was a huge mistake. Like most, I’ve been playing on the highest player setting for the last 10 years. Not this time. Started with the originals and got hammered every game. Even when I changed to professional it was too much.
I reset the leagues and started again on professional – far better. Still really struggled my first year – only Ordaz and Shimizu stood out. Palmeri was nowhere near the standard of games past, but that’s probably due to my bad defending! Finished 12th in D2, got far better towards the end of the year, figuring out the defending.

At the start of the second year I really panicked – I chose “No” on controlling the team’s finances, big mistake. They hadn’t even given my enough money to cover my wages! Luckily I managed to sell Ordaz and bring in a couple of players. Ayete (sp?) was a great signing up front for me, along with Musa (RMF) and Mezange (CB). Can’t remember if I brought anyone else in that year, but it wasn’t half as many as I wanted. Anyway, I managed to finish top in my second season by quite a distance, having managed to get a handle on the game in a decent 4-1-2-1-2 formation (Back 4, holding DM, two wingers, SS/AMF and two CF). Division 1 here I come!

As I said, Ayete scored a shed full and I sold him at the start of the new season to bring in some more funds. Was hoping for far more money in my third season, didn’t get it. I sold Shimizu for 2 million to Valencia and that helped a lot! Brought in Ledisomer (LMF), Bradley (CM), Tolozken (CM) and Bebe (United - CF). May have got a few more – can’t really remember. I really struggled against the top sides but Ettori and Fatcheta stood out, along with the players I brought in. I beat most of the sides around me, Everton, QPR, Sunderland etc but lost to Spurs 5-0, United 4-1 and other top sides. Managed to beat Liverpool 2-1 away and draw 1-1 at Arsenal. Other than that, it was hard work against the top 6! I played a 4-2-2-2 formation, with two DM, sacrificing my SS/AM. It worked for the most part. I went into January in 7th position, just one point off a Europa League spot. In January I sold Bebe for 1.5million (top scorer) and Bradley for another 1.5million. Managed to sign Yetes (16 year old CB), Kolozwick (16 year old CB), Hasan Ereby (72), Tiago Barros (LB/LMF), F. Rodriguez (CF) and another CF, whose name escapes me. Also brought up Michel (CM) from the youth team, a good player for a rating of 62. They were inspired signings and improved my team a lot. Rodriguez scored in almost every game, supported by a SS with a Y surname, can’t remember who (77 rating!)? My back four went from Ruskin (62) – Pameri (68) – Mezangue (69) – El Mourkari (71) to Barros (69) – Yetes (72) – Kolozwick/Hasan Erby (72) – El Mourkari (71). That helped a great deal. Didn’t have much back up for CM, but Ettori and Tolozken did well. Ended up 6th in the league, 5 points clear of Spurs.

I’m just about to start my 4th season – they’ve improved my club doctor etc (all now on 1 million salaries) and given me 25 MILLION! I was delighted – gone from barely covering my costs to getting 20 million to spend on players!

I made a few great signings this morning – all ranging from 76 – 89, I’ll post my final squad later on. I’m hoping I can challenge the top 2, really aiming to get into the Champions League and win the UEFA cup.

 

[DaiSCFC]

i played a ML with swansea, with max funds and easy negotiations, but still could not get some players to join, which is good, because i lie that some players only want to play for CL teams, but when blackburn wouldn't let samba leave i thought it was a joke but i'm just putting on a patch and will maybe start one with a championship team with max funds and negotiator. I find it so much better when you can actually sign a few players which aren't free or sh*te. btw i only chose swansea cause they were newly promoted and didn't want a good team , i support LFC

I'm a Swansea fan...

If you didn't want a good team you could have chosen your mighty LFC

We outplayed you on your own patch the weekend!

 

[conman]

I'm a Swansea fan...

If you didn't want a good team you could have chosen your mighty LFC

We outplayed you on your own patch the weekend!

well that's not exactly what i meant , because for some reason on the game, liverpool are in the CL, and i didn't want a CL team, so i chose a newly promoted team, didn't want QPR cause i thought their team was already quite good, and i just prefered swansea to norwich