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What Urgently Needs Fixing for PES 2012?

Tech_Skill

Registered User
The plan here is for everyone to chip in, then we copy and paste all the good stuff into one thread and then put it in feedback. It needs to be done soon if there is any hope in hell Konami will take notice.

I'll start with a few basic ones.....


Goalkeeping Errors: Game-breaking in my view. For this simple reason, what if you've spent hours on Master League and you finally get to the champions league final after years of building a squad, you are in the final, and then when the CPU gets a one on one, the goalkeeper dives out of the way of the striker without the striker even taking a shot, thus allowing the striker an open goal? This is just totally unacceptable in my view and was never an issue in older Pes's and therefore needs correcting.

AI issues: This has been well documented, but the following needs changing asap.

-The game speed being ramped up to something like +20 every time the CPU decides it needs to score.

-Player Switching not working when the CPU decides it needs to score

-Defenders suddenly moving out of position when the CPU decides it needs to score.

-Defenders standing still/not tackling

-Scripted games where is obvious to the gamer after about 2 mins that the CPU is going to win/draw, you can usually tell when world class players suddenly miss open goals and cant hit the target from half a yard or when defenders suddenly move well out of position even when you set the tactics to full defense.

Above all, the number one flaw in this game AI wise in my opinion is that the CPU AI does not respect player stats, the player stats count more for the human player, not the CPU AI, which is why the CPU can make Zimbabwe's 3rd choice striker pull off Marco Van Basten like volleys and Ronaldinho like through passes. Its so simple, make the player stats count for the CPU and you have a game which is more balanced.

Throughballs are dreadful in this game, they are so damn accurate its insane and if they are not accurate, the CPU AI players will stand still or let the ball go through them to allow my striker in on goal, its just ridiculous. The throughballs need to be more in line with the new passing system, more control/variety needs to be given to the user, they need to be more errored.

Passing still needs more error in it.

The Shooting is crap when using the /RT controls to place the finish, I've lost count of how many times the ball has ballooned over the bar or trickled right to the keeper or the player has tried to slide tackle the ball into the goal, this was fine on pes6, why is it so crap now.

When the goal keeper takes a goal kick, players cannot fight to head the ball, two players will stand still waiting to head the ball and the taller player nearly always wins the header, this is a joke, in fifa, you can jossle and fight for the right to head the ball away.

Auto Switching was fine in older pes's, why ruin it, its terrible, go back to the 'manual' auto switching of PES on PS2 when I can auto switch properly.

Corner Kicks are a waste of time. The auto switching is so flawed if you need to switch players it will switch to the wrong one allowing a free header for the CPU. Also the CPU insists on putting your tiniest players in the box to defend a corner, so Xavi and Iniesta will be defending corner kicks for you against the likes of Drogba. In PES 2012 we must be able to choose who can defend against corners.

Throws in are embarrassing. You cant auto switch before the throw in is taken. Also the CPU moves you players very far away from its players, so it will always be able to retain the ball from a throw in. The CPU will also take advantage of this by long throwing the ball into the box to a striker who will turn the defender and get a free shot at goal, because I cant auto switch before the throw is taken, I cant mark the striker, even tho I know what is going to happen.

Master League is scripted to high heaven, total waste of time and so predictable.

-Before big games, there is always nearly an international game which zaps your players and makes them weak, the CPU players stamina is 100% fine, it never affects them. In La Liga, you always seem to play Real Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia or Athletico in about the 4th/5th game of the season, which is just after an international game.

-As Barcelona, Messi was getting injured constantly before key games, infact he got injured about 5 times in the 1st half of the season making him miss at least 3 critical games. Obviously scripted, I started another Master League season with Barca to test something, Messi got injured in ''training'' for 2 weeks, just before the start of the season.....scripted.

- Games and competitions are scripted. I lose to inter at home thanks to the goalkeeper failing to come out to handle an overhit pass the by the CPU, infact he moved backwards to allow Milto to get to it, I lose 1-0 against 10 men, lose the next CL game thanks to more ridiculous goals. The CPU realizes Barca wont qualify for next round, so I beat inter 3-0 at San Siro and Beat Galatasary 4-0 away from home.........scripted.

- If you set Transfer activity to Normal, the transfers are insane, Sneijder moving to Valencia in January, Coutinho to Zaragoza, and about 1 million players moved clubs in a 2 week period, totally unrealistic, again, never was an issue in older PES's

-If you don't play Messi etc for one game, he gets unhappy with the club for lack of playing time.

-When you go into Negotiations and look for a player to buy, if you keep scrolling through their player profile using LB/RB the scouting information keeps changing and is totally retarded. If if you scroll through Cristiano Ronaldo's profile several times you will see information like ''Would make a great Utility Player''.

-Stevan Jovetic will be refused a move to Barcelona, then will sign for Sevilla instead.

Player ratings are shit, you score 4 goals with a player and get a 6.5/7.0 rating.
 

Sminky

Registered User
You pretty much covered everything I'm annoyed with. I would say I'd like to see more stat options, like ...

Composure in front of goal (shot technique seems too wide a variable)
Big match mentality (self explanatory)
Character (more likely to throw a strop if dropped or unhappy)

Also, I'd like to see greater manager options like getting the sack from your ML team but it not being Game Over rather you wait for a job offer.
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
You pretty much covered everything I'm annoyed with. I would say I'd like to see more stat options, like ...

Composure in front of goal (shot technique seems too wide a variable)
Big match mentality (self explanatory)
Character (more likely to throw a strop if dropped or unhappy)

Also, I'd like to see greater manager options like getting the sack from your ML team but it not being Game Over rather you wait for a job offer.

Yeah, another one is being able to move teams mid season should you wish to, haven't ever seen that in Master league, you wouldn't think thats to hard to put in.
 

Sminky

Registered User
Yeah, another one is being able to move teams mid season should you wish to, haven't ever seen that in Master league, you wouldn't think thats to hard to put in.

Had to dig around a bit but here's my ML suggestions for PES2012 that I posted a few weeks back. What do you think?

If you've been through some of the threads in the PES2011 discussions you will have noticed I'm not the biggest fan of PES2011. I felt short changed and let down.

PES2012 is the chance for Konami to redeem themselves in my eyes.

This is what I want to see in PES2012 ... its mainly a ML perspective but I welcome feedback ... even negative

> Realistic team styles.
Teams like Bolton, Stoke and Blackburn actively play long ball, pump long free-kicks into the penalty area.

> Bring back the speed advantage for geniunely fast players
Have the ability to utilise fast players pace to accelerate away from players but make the AI astute enough to learn how to manage it. Have defenders try to push wingers onto their weaker feet.

> Body Balance.
Since when did you watch a football game and see a player get pushed in the back stumble and have the ball taken off him? Yes you get fouls for these on PES but the weaker the body balance the more tolerant the refs are. This stat should only here for shoulder barging, ushering players of the ball, crowding them out .. not hooking a leg through a limb or pushing them in the back to win the ball.

> Master League Transfers.
Make it harder to sign good players! Proper pricing please, more realistic contracts.

> Master League Scouts.
If you are going to have a scout make it more interactive, give him real parameters to provide a list of targets (e.g bring me a list of players over 1.90cm who have 85 min for body balance). In fact have the option for him to actively seek to sign players of YOUR choice if they fall out of favour at their - He shouldn't sign or promote players from the youth team without your consent! The scouting area has so much more room for development I can't even begin to fit it in here but I don't want to hear the counter arguement of "go buy a football management game" as PES has always looked to be an interactive footie sim.

> No More fake teams.
I appreciate thanks to licensing that Konami fills the games with fake teams and players but why not just do what they do with national teams and create approximations that can be easily edited. I don't want to play a ML and meet WE United in the league!

> Getting the sack.
This is self explanatory. If you go on a bad run you get the boot from your team

> Manager rating.
You get a PES manager rating for your performance over a season with determines job offers whether in or out of work. Doesn't seem to complicated to me, could can be based on something as simple as how many wins you got in the season. Longevity wise it means you would have to win something major to get a Real Madrid job offer.

Those are my suggestions ... I don't realistically expect them to appear in PES2012 but I certainly think the would add a profitable depth to the games obvious selling point, the ML.
 

Skeezix

Registered User
I dont know if it just me but the game is blurry, so I cant play it really well. So that need to be fixed for me.
And the speed +1 because the players cant run in that speed. I think that's a bug or something, because they don't move like they do in 0 or in +2.

And as was said before. AI and No more fake teams ¬¬, or like someone already said, at least more easily recognizable teams and more easy to edit, not all teams with random uniform colors and same design.
 

zeemeister

Registered User
Lol so all-in-all, in your opinion, fix auto switch and Ta daaaaa half the game is fixed.

While I agree on the ML transfer flaws I reckon someone is blaming the games scripting for his/her inability to win every match.

As fars licenses goes. It's been discussed a million times before. EA HAS THE MONEY and I enjoy the what thw editing community does.
So if these eloquent points ever make it to konami HQ - heaven forbid please put a disclaimer on it.

Disclaimer:
*These ridiculous ideas do not represent the views of the greater PES community but much rather the kids who want to sprint with Ronaldo and win every match*
 

wicked5

Registered User
the main thing that pisses me off is when you clear the ball it gets booted so far up the pitch its not even real... you can strike it over the opponents bar from being in your own penalty box
 

Sminky

Registered User
Lol so all-in-all, in your opinion, fix auto switch and Ta daaaaa half the game is fixed.

While I agree on the ML transfer flaws I reckon someone is blaming the games scripting for his/her inability to win every match.

As fars licenses goes. It's been discussed a million times before. EA HAS THE MONEY and I enjoy the what thw editing community does.
So if these eloquent points ever make it to konami HQ - heaven forbid please put a disclaimer on it.

Disclaimer:
*These ridiculous ideas do not represent the views of the greater PES community but much rather the kids who want to sprint with Ronaldo and win every match*

(laughing) haha its our first fanboy attack! 10 post in and we've been fanboyed!

As I say to all fanboy trollers, *read the posts again - properly - and try to remember that personal assumption does not qualify as factual information*

Happy reading.
 

zeemeister

Registered User
Oh FFS where and when was the word fanboy mentioned?

All I'm saying is if you going to give Konami feedback it's based on proper study and not half arsed bitch fests as you will be the first to moan and groan when PES 2012 is released.

I love how when someone mentions something good or bad but in opposition on these forums the first signs of debate has to be labelled as a fanboy response. it's a damn shame and shows the general quality of PESgaming these days.

The moaners/groaners, ass kissers and blind faithful have always been around but never before has idiocy been as widespread and vocal.

Anyhoooo enjoy.... I'm off to the beach then later tonight it's PES till the wee hours of the morning.
 

Sminky

Registered User
Oh FFS where and when was the word fanboy mentioned?

All I'm saying is if you going to give Konami feedback it's based on proper study and not half arsed bitch fests as you will be the first to moan and groan when PES 2012 is released.

I love how when someone mentions something good or bad but in opposition on these forums the first signs of debate has to be labelled as a fanboy response. it's a damn shame and shows the general quality of PESgaming these days.

The moaners/groaners, ass kissers and blind faithful have always been around but never before has idiocy been as widespread and vocal.

Anyhoooo enjoy.... I'm off to the beach then later tonight it's PES till the wee hours of the morning.

Thats the thing, you're not debating with with me - you're ridiculing me. I posted my PES2012 suggestions and I've not had a counter argument, just my age and ability questioned.

I hardly think the contents of this thread constitute a bitch fest lad ... hmmm, its raining in England so I will probably give the beach a miss!
 

zubanz

Registered User
I have to agree with zeemeister, you shouldnt have attacked him just because he argued against you. I too agree that you are inable to win every match. When I started playing ML, I too thought the game was fixed when losing, however as the season went on, when i lost matches I did not feel as if I was cheated. Yes, the AI can be horrid at times and the AI does score some really frustrating goals, but I did not feel as if it was scripted ever.

You do state a lot of problems and I do agree with most of them, but dont go attacking other members of the forum because they do not agree with you.

P.S. Have you tried semi-assisted cursor change? I have minimal problems with it :) However, I do HATE how sometimes theres a deflection of the goalkeeper and all your defenders stand around while a striker taps it in
 

Sminky

Registered User
I have to agree with zeemeister, you shouldnt have attacked him just because he argued against you. I too agree that you are inable to win every match. When I started playing ML, I too thought the game was fixed when losing, however as the season went on, when i lost matches I did not feel as if I was cheated. Yes, the AI can be horrid at times and the AI does score some really frustrating goals, but I did not feel as if it was scripted ever.

You do state a lot of problems and I do agree with most of them, but dont go attacking other members of the forum because they do not agree with you.

You daft so and so, I've not attacked anyone. I was laughing at him even though he was having a dig at me. I gave him a little bit of banter back just as he will but essentially he still hasn't given me a counter argument, just assumptions.

Look, I've no issue debating PES with people, I'm happy to do so but most people seem to think that posting - and I'm paraphrasing here for effect - "No! You're Wrong! You're just a kid who doesn't know how to play the game! Speed Whore!" is a debate.

I'm 33! I've played PES for years, I haven't done too badly on PES2011 but there are issues I don't like. I post them on here and I'm treated like a pariah!

EDIT: I did use semi assisted but I found it caused a few issues with switching players so I went back to assisted. Sounds like Konami are going to fix this though, so good news!
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
Lol so all-in-all, in your opinion, fix auto switch and Ta daaaaa half the game is fixed.

While I agree on the ML transfer flaws I reckon someone is blaming the games scripting for his/her inability to win every match.

As fars licenses goes. It's been discussed a million times before. EA HAS THE MONEY and I enjoy the what thw editing community does.
So if these eloquent points ever make it to konami HQ - heaven forbid please put a disclaimer on it.

Disclaimer:
*These ridiculous ideas do not represent the views of the greater PES community but much rather the kids who want to sprint with Ronaldo and win every match*

:jack:

You obviously can't read. Lets try again.....

Here's part of my example on scripting.

The CPU realizes Barca wont qualify for next round, so I beat inter 3-0 at San Siro and Beat Galatasary 4-0 away from home.........scripted.

You see that you apologist moron? I WON THESE GAME, GUESS WHAT........

IT'S STILL SCRIPTING......there's goes your whole stupid argument out the window.

It's not about whether you win or lose, its about the game making you feel like a passenger, like you are not in full control and that the outcome is predetermined, to me, that is not acceptable.

Most sensible living breathing mammals, with two balls and a dick can see that the AI in PES is not up to next generation standard, hell it isn't even up to PS2 standard, you cant come in here and try and cockblock the AI issues when they were hardly present in the PS2 versions of 6/7 years ago. (AI cheating has always been present in pes, but pes 2011 is at the higher end of the scale)

Another example of your learning difficulties, is the thread title is what needs URGENTLY fixing nobody said, this is everything that is wrong with PES, as far as i'm concerned, AI and auto switching are verging on game breaking because they cost you games, this idea that the PES2011 AI outplays you with smartness is absolutely ridiculous if you are semi decent at PES, most of the goals you will concede are via scripting, the other day, my goalkeeper dived out of the way of an attacker, before a shot had even been taken, allowing him a free tap in.............. Now, if you cannot see that is a serious issue, then you are pretty much beyond help, I mean.... if you was on life support, i'd tell the doctor to pull the plug on you, wrap you up in a sheet and leave you in the car park because your waste of time and space.

The best thing about you is your avatar, the rest is a let down and to be honest, I suspect you was a let down the day the midwife pulled you out your old lady.


And to this 'Zubanz' who said there are little issues with Semi Assisted cursor movement/player switching.............. PES GAMING, where the hell are you finding these people? Seriously...... player switching is a disgrace on all the damn settings.

If anyone thinks they have other issues that need to be in here, put them in, I was referring the immediate issues, if you want whole new concepts of how the game should be played, go read Amateur's posts, im talking about things that needs fixing ASAP.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Another Issue:

At set pieces if you header the ball away from the corner, it always ends up just outside the penalty area, so the CPU has a man there who volley's the rebound towards goal every time, that needs changing somehow.

Also.......

Has nobody notice that if the CPU misplaces a pass and you move to intercept it, your defender nearly always takes a first touch, even if you try and pass it to a teammate first time, that's a shocker imo.
 

zeemeister

Registered User
Thats the thing, you're not debating with with me - you're ridiculing me. I posted my PES2012 suggestions and I've not had a counter argument, just my age and ability questioned.

I hardly think the contents of this thread constitute a bitch fest lad ... hmmm, its raining in England so I will probably give the beach a miss!

It's too many, too long and too cliched to counter every argument.
For example tream styles can be adjusted in the settings and strategy menu so Bolton can play like bolton etc.

Body balance for tall players is daft because players P. Crouch have height, technique, agility but not balance.

I don't want to speed around running behind the defence at every occasion. Thank heavens Konami slowed down the player with the ball. Nevermind if it's Messi or CRonaldo no player is faster than a player without the ball. period.

Licences tho pretty - are not, will not and has never been what PES is about.

I agree ML needs to be fixed up respect of transfers and the ability to change teams.

I've been around long enough to suss out people who want positive and change and people who moan for the sake of it as it's deemed to be hip or whatever. I mean I read your post and 2 things stand out. You want to run with fast players and you want licenses. Need I say more?
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
zeemister i love ur pic

Great pic, shame that once you get to the text next to the picture, its a let down.

Zeemeister is talking out of his backside here......talking about making teams play how they play in real life by edit the team tactics in edit mode.........:rolleyes:

Listen real close now........

The CPU does not respect player stats, when it wants to, it will make Almeria's striker as good as Fernando Torres, this is part of the problem, you can edit team tactics, but that isnt gonna stop, the CPU making low skill strikers, do impossible 90th minute volleys that no world class player could pull off in the same situation or allow average players to pull off one in a million throughballs every single time, the throughballs in general are pathetic, the CPU plays perfectly weighted throughballs nearly every time with pretty much any player and it does THE SAME TACTIC IN EVERY GAME

On top player, if you can defend against this, you are fine..... When the CPU player is running towards goal as long as you have a player near or infront of him, dont pressure him right away, let him run in on goal, all this player is doing is looking to play the same old throughball every time, mark the runner by staying infront of him at all times, and you'll more than likely be fine. The split second the runner get ahead of your final defender, the CPU AI plays a perfect throughball and he will be in on goal, the AI is NOT CLEVER it does the SAME THING over and over.

If you make the CPU AI respect player stats, I think you will have a much more balanced game. And that's before you make the other changes, then you have a real basis for making teams play authentic football according to how they play in real life.
 

Sminky

Registered User
It's too many, too long and too cliched to counter every argument.
For example tream styles can be adjusted in the settings and strategy menu so Bolton can play like bolton etc.

Body balance for tall players is daft because players P. Crouch have height, technique, agility but not balance.

I don't want to speed around running behind the defence at every occasion. Thank heavens Konami slowed down the player with the ball. Nevermind if it's Messi or CRonaldo no player is faster than a player without the ball. period.

Licences tho pretty - are not, will not and has never been what PES is about.

I agree ML needs to be fixed up respect of transfers and the ability to change teams.

I've been around long enough to suss out people who want positive and change and people who moan for the sake of it as it's deemed to be hip or whatever. I mean I read your post and 2 things stand out. You want to run with fast players and you want licenses. Need I say more?

Amusing. I wasn't getting on a soap box when I wrote the post I was merely fleshing out suggestions for PES2012, I certainly didn't post them expecting critical review.

Pedantry as it is, you've used the word cliche out of context too.

Granted team styles covers basic aspects of the game I was hoping for something a little more detailed that encompasses the cultural aspects of football nation to nation. Yes it sounds long winded, but at the end of the day (now, that's a cliche!) Its not beyond Konami.

I disagree with you about Crouch, I've seen him hold players off at Club and international level despite being robust in their challenges. Thats more of a you say potato, I say Potatoe issue.

I don't want Usain Bolt murdering me for pace on the wings either, but pace does exist in the game of football. Example, yesterday against Man Utd, Gareth Bale picked up the ball and skinned 3 defenders for pace. It does happen but its eliminating the ability to pick the ball up on PES and running in a straight line past everyone with Ronaldo and Messi, what Konami did was dumb down the AI for forwards (they openly admitted this). Like I said originally, I want the pace back but with more intelligent defending, dropping off deep, pushing players onto their weaker feet, more aggressive man marking, zonal marking in open play etc.

You can't have read my post properly, I never said I wanted more licenses, I said I wanted less fake players and teams. When I say fake I mean made up players like at PES united and WE united.

I think you've judged me on some very strange misconceptions, I'm 33, what is deemed hip or not isn't of any consequence to me. I was floating ideas for PES2012.

You've taken what I wrote and still made an assumption and then branded it as fact. You're not nearly as empathic as you believe because you can't say that all I want is speed and licenses if I haven't said that directly myself!

I don't even know why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about it. I responded to a thread, I put forward what I considered creative ideas and then get you giving me pelters for it. All a bit pot and kettle if you ask me.
 
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