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Old 04-03-2006, 20:00   #1
dic
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Thumbs down PES5/WE9 playing with AI is just shit

I been playing ELEVEN games since SNES and PES5/WE9 is just so wrong!

cheats lame. foul foul foul. fuck this shit! first time a PES/WE feels unplayable.

who says it plays like real football?

all team irregularless AI will camp 11 players inside the half. 4 inside the box.
i been passing and passing. its like 60% possesion and i cant really do much. real football? not!

the AI defence is all superbly organised no matter which team. yet my team AI shape is crap. unfair.

when the AI pass a through ball down the flanks, my defender ALWAYS get beaten and AI just run on to cross the ball.

foul count against me is like 3:1 on 4 stars 5:1 on 5 stars..i hate the foul system random crap.

I know why Konami resorts to cheating AI. they spent the time doing needless stuff like fouls, injury treatment, action cuts...etc they forgot to improve the engine.

The damn thing feels the same except they cheats up the AI. well they have too. its PES*5* a "new" PES...


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Old 04-03-2006, 20:02   #2
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There are problems .....yes many
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Old 04-03-2006, 20:03   #3
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Watever mate.This is a fansite!!!!
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Old 04-03-2006, 20:06   #4
dic
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btw i play birds eye because the PC version wide is not as far as PS2.

i really hate it when half of my team is camped inside the AI half passing passing and passing.. and gets no where.

BUT the AI with just 3 players can pass my defend with through balls that worked to their advantage.

btw i have no prob defending. 5 star the worst i lost was 2-0. but its unfair to see how the AI gets advantages in attacking situations.

real football don always ends with 0-0, 1-0, 0-1, 0-2.. what a cheating AI.
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Old 04-03-2006, 20:21   #5
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I think its the first PES/WE where player switching is blotched. A lot of times it switched to a wrong player in critical circumstances. A lot of times my player are left dumbed founded. Control issues yucks!

The AI also unfairly have a closer distance to my player n ball. Not the other way. AI always seem to have more space, always able to turn, always have more body strength.


PES/WE really sucks. It lost the footie randomness of what made the series great.. It becomes more like those old school arcade games where you grind out the pattern and weakness.

Final ratings 6.9/10. Go on Konami milk the series. Give us WE10 next month!
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Old 04-03-2006, 20:45   #6
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PES ADDICT 117 has stepped out of the darkness into slightly less darkness

Do we really need another thread like this. Why not have a rant in the 1000 other 'I hate PES5 Threads'. Use the search.
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Old 06-03-2006, 14:01   #7
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Ther are a lot of flaws in this game, but it's still a great game IMO. One thing i've noticed is that you should use the radar a lot more than in pes 4. Try to see how your players move and time the passes right. For example if your WF is trying to get past the opposite sb wait for him to be almost on the same line with him and then pass the through pass. Works every time you time it right so it's pretty much up to your playing skills.
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Old 06-03-2006, 14:20   #8
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Barry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung outBarry is likely to have heard by now that PESInsight was where the cool kids hung out

Patience is the key, patience and an eye for the radar and a mind to pick the right time to pass/shoot/through ball.
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Old 06-03-2006, 15:02   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PES ADDICT 117
Do we really need another thread like this. Why not have a rant in the 1000 other 'I hate PES5 Threads'. Use the search.
i agree with the guy.
i dont think we need another thread like all the other ones complaining about how sht pes5 is.

as barryvs said above. you need to be patient and wait for a opening in the defence or whatever. have confidence and play a lot. you will get used to shooting from different distances and angles.

i honeslty have no problem with it. really.. i've never played better.. i used to play 4 stars max on pes4.. but now i can max out on 6 stars killing every team with france. =P

ediT: maybe your view is not helping. i find birds eye very confusing. i cant tell if the ball is going higher or lower.. wide is all i need.
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:10   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatTheCat
Beneath all the gfx, animations and sound fx, PES5 is no more than a complex series of calculations based on probabilities depending upon which values are inputed into the equation. i.e. When your player is through on goal with only the keeper to beat, you choose your direction and release the shoot button, there are numerous 'legitimate' factors and probability calculations which will determine whether a goal is scored or not.

Now from a programmers point of view.....how hard do you think it would be to introduce a 'hidden' factor into the probability calculations that results in the calcualtions being more likely to favour one player for a certain duration (or indeed for the full extent of the match) and more likely to disfavour the other?

This 'slanted pitch' effect has always been part of the PES game (yes, it was in PES3 also) and it IS NOT JUST CONFINED TO CPU vs 1 PLAYER cheating. However what so many people are saying is that in PES5, Konami have pushed it too far and the result is a game that you cant really beleive in. When I win, it is always in the back of my mind that perhaps the AI greased the whels for me at the right moment, likewise when things aint going your way, is often all to apparent that the AI is blatantly frustrating your efforts hence rendering you powerless.............not much fun!

Winning or losing on PEs5 is much the same as winning or being totally fucking robbed by a fruit machine. When you win you are thinking it was cos of all the wise moves u made and the quick reactions u had on the stopper features etc. But when you lose you know 100% full well that you are being fucked over by a devious calculating machine that is simply not going to let you have your way......no matter what! So what you have is thee most scripted PES game to date.

Pity about this AI 'cheating', cos if it weren't in the game, despite all its flaws, PES5 would be simply unsurpassable, instead, the game seems to be driving most folk to utter distraction.
well said mate.
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Old 08-03-2006, 15:46   #11
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The AI could be better, the player switching is indeed botched and CPU-controlled players on your team run too damned much to the ball when passing (a huge problem when playing 2 on 2) to other players, completely mucking up the formation.

Aside from that PES5 is a fantastic game; fouls are not "AI cheats"--many teams foul often and delay play to keep their formation intact and avoid fast breaks. Bolton Wanderers, anyone?

If you watch your formation, play according to your tactic and stay patient while learning the game, comparing PES5 to a "Fruit Machine" is nothing short of ridiculous. It could use the seventh difficulty star, though, or moving the stars down, so that the one star would correspond to current two-star difficulty etc. Being able to decide how you set up corners would also be a huge improvement as would "hot-potatofying" (erm...) the by-lines, so that wingers wouldn't keep stumbling quite stupidly over it for no apparent reason.
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Old 09-03-2006, 02:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatTheCat
Beneath all the gfx, animations and sound fx, PES5 is no more than a complex series of calculations <snip>
I think this comment nailed it.

In many individual regards PES5 is undeoubtedly the best of the series so far -- shooting, animations, variety of play and situations. If I just think of the way the shooting was in PES4 -- pansy-esque ballooning shots no matter how much you tried -- I would never want to go back.

But the flaws this game has are not part of any individual iteration. They are fundamental and have been in the series for years now. Slanted pitch, catch up logic, defender speed advantage, CPU hyper-mode. You all know them. They've been in PES3, they've been in 4 and they are in 5. They even have been in ISSPE2 back in the old days of the PS1. And even back then, fans used to call it realistic.

The sad thing is, that Seabass and his team seem to go to ever greater lengths to "improve" the AI advantage by applying unfair means, rather than rethinking this thing from the ground up.

For a more casual player like me, scoring In PES5 has become a pain in the ass. Every match ends 1-0, 0-0 or, if it's celebration day, 2-1. You can often literally see what the AI engine does to your players and the ball physics in order to keep the score low, and these are the moments when you FEEL that the game is playing you and not the other way around -- totally unsatisfying no matter whether you are winning or losing. The weird thing is, that there seems to be no difference between levels 3, 4, 5 or 6 nor with which team you play or against whom you play. I mean, it is still fun and occassionally great, but after the 7th consecutive hard-faught-for, "captivating" and "nailbitingly exciting" 1-0 you are starting to wonder whether this whole thing is not the most tedious and unforgiving game you've ever played. I know there are people who easily beat the CPU on 6* by 4-0 or 5-1 or whatever, but I do not want to invest as much time as they do in this game in order to reach this mastery. I want this to be fun and occassional. So I try level 3 or 4, but it's the same idiotic low-scoring obsession frenzy (2* is too easy, though). I mean, when I am able to not lose and mostly win on 6* (albeit by a small margin), why can't I not dominate at least the crappy teams on 3* if I wanted to?

"No, you can't". Period. Even when you play freaking Empoli IN San Siro it has to be a close, "exciting" match with tons of post hitting, galactical keeper saves, unbelievably idiotic misses and one measly goal which you have to play your skin out to defend, often for naught as you'll have the inevitable equalizer in injury time. Sure it's 'realistic'. Didn't we have ManU-Bayern 99? or Liverpool-Milan last year? But if every match is exciting and close even that starts to get boring at some point.

Or why for example -- after more than 7 years -- is the CPU team still not subject to fatigue during a match? On levels 5 and 6 they double (or even tripple) you from the first to the last minute. They run down the wings as if they've strapped an oxygen-supply to their back while your players are walking on their tongues. They play pixelperfect passes, even when under pressure and with the back to their teammates for the entire game. It's actually totally unnecessary for the CPU to substitute players, since they don't tire. But stamina and endurance (or the lack therof) are an important factor in football. They can be part of a strategy, or a weapon. But if your opponent doesn't lose stamina what's the point? And why is this even NOT in a game that people call 'realistic'? For the love of god, at least make it an option. If the hardcore fans are underchallenged, then they can check it off.

I am sure none of the critique will ever bother Konami, because the game keeps selling like warm bread no matter what (and certainly deservedly so). But how often do you sit in front of you screen and yell "WHY? WHY, KONAMI, WHY?". In my case more than I would like to, lately.
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:13   #13
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I think we should accept the game for its flaws ......rather than whining about it ...patience is the key and come to terms with the fact that u r going to be tackled...and the A.I. will be always one step ahead....
getting ur tactics right....
i play with 3-3-2-2 formation and tinker with the individual attack settings and edit the positions manually ...
try out these players
winger -j.s.park he is the only player who can dribble and go around defenders ( as far as i know).......
playmaker- hleb ...ronaldinho is good but try this player ........shows some excellent technique in tight situations.........
DMF-ragol kogaki(or kodaki)--best in elbowing out opponents better than mascherano.......good height.....
have c.ronaldo in the team ....his stats develop like anything
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:34   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leesooper
I think we should accept the game for its flaws ......rather than whining about it ...patience is the key and come to terms with the fact that u r going to be tackled...and the A.I. will be always one step ahead....
getting ur tactics right....
i play with 3-3-2-2 formation and tinker with the individual attack settings and edit the positions manually ...
try out these players
winger -j.s.park he is the only player who can dribble and go around defenders ( as far as i know).......
playmaker- hleb ...ronaldinho is good but try this player ........shows some excellent technique in tight situations.........
DMF-ragol kogaki(or kodaki)--best in elbowing out opponents better than mascherano.......good height.....
have c.ronaldo in the team ....his stats develop like anything
Now, your first lines, we should accept rather whine... I hope for your own shake you are not like that in other aspects of your life too...

Of course we SHOULD if we like the game ADDRESS the faults and the bads as well as the pros and the goods.

It is called FEEDBACK. If you just sit in your corner and take it without "whining" you are acting like a 10 yrs old kid who wont say a thing in fear of being called a whiner. These kind of behaviors are so out of any logic, I can't even understand them.

PRODUCT ----> CUSTOMER ----> FEEDBACK ---> COMPANY

Do any of the above ring a bell ?

PS : Again, we are discussing and forming oppinions here. Not whining. Even from threads bursting flames out of every post you could take something if you just read.
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Old 11-03-2006, 08:10   #15
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i think we10 will be easier judging from the interview with seabass so many gonna rejoice......but comon the gameplay is not gonna be perfect anytime....its one thing finding faults but other thing getting frustrated with each fault..it bet u r frustrated with every other thing in life..and dont try to categorise this as feeback..........And i was the same as you man until i luckily met a great person who instilled this self-telorance in me..............This has reallly changed me. in every aspect.........This person anf told me to change my mental makeup to conteract the difficulties in future............
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